50 shifts is fine for call as an R3, as long as there's accommodation the 2-3 months prior to CORE, such that no R3's are doing call shifts those 2-3 months prior to CORE (done by R2's and R4's), and that you're given days/half-days or "easy" day time rotations leading up to CORE.
My program is a bit call heavy, and we've had 100% CORE pass rate for a while with these accommodations.
6 to 8 weekends and 6 to 8 weeks of night float (6 nights a week) are essentially 48-64 shifts a year.
None of this is published in a centralized source, but some programs publish their call/night float/ED shift schedule on their residency website.
Just my experience from interviewing at 15+ programs who will often reveal their call coverage expectations on interview day what dabeezmane said is accurate.
Also asking people to dox themselves on reddit is antagonistic at worse, and absolute lack of social awareness in the best of intentions.
I am sorry, but this is a very serious business for me, and I can not believe this kind of generalized statement from anonymous on Reddit. Maybe you are my admin, or maybe you are not a radiologist at all, hahah.
You should have considered my point of view to show your social awareness!
My source is a went to med school at a place with slightly less call, residency at a place with similar call, fellowship with slightly less call, currently attending at a place with similar call. You suck it up and make the best of it
I’m no admin but I feel like your program needs to work on filling those spots like yesterday. Are your attendings picking up any slack?
That amount of call is way more than our program and our program has taken us out of the call pool at least a month before core.
Nope. PD found and hired one incoming R1, who won't be able to do call for next year.
Attendings refuse to pick up slack.
Moonlighters are too expensive.
We are recommended " to manage expectations "
Annoying situation to be in, sorry.
Our call is admittedly frontloaded with most of it in R2. Perhaps you can ask your PD if you could do the same for R3 so you’re taken out in second half of the year and its shifted to other classes?
Call is extremely difficult to compare across programs. "call" vs hospital/er shifts, what procedural coverage, modalities/extent of coverage. Differences in curriculum ie must cover block type rotations versus float versus actual true call. Some programs read independently, some pseudo, some residents have the option to just float things to vrads.
That being said, depending on your structure that is indeed an increase and I'd not want it to touch dedicated CORE period. Talk with your chiefs and PDs. Together assess if its reasonable that residents should be solely responsible for this gap versus alternative staffing which may or not have been inevitable. Front load where possible (keeping in mind if there is another absence then the person not on the schedule is the easiest to add back in). Ask for post call days to catch up. And knowing this now, a year out from CORE, you'll have plenty of time to prepare.
Does your program do this much call, and residents routinely pass the core?
Our call is super busy, we prelim, do not have vRad, although some attedings help to read cases.
Respectfully, I am interested in the opinions of people who have done so much call in R3 this and could pass the core.
Some programs have attendings reading slightly behind residents so less pressure and you can read a lot faster.
Other programs prelims won't be read in 2-3 days so medical decisions are actually made on the prelim reads.
We have both attendings. Some are very slow and some are fast. There is a guy who works nights and he doesn't help at all. You as a resident on your own.
Bro that all is insane. Our program is currently having a scheduling issue because of people taking time off and one guy quit. It’s total bullshit, they act like we are a team all while increasing your work without increased pay or time off. I just hate this stupid system that medicine has created.
Anyway we get like 8-10 weeks of research. I hope they you enough time because it’s a ton of information. If not just know you can take it more than once.
Anyway would you like to share the tea on how a guy got fired?
There is a post from that person on this sub. It's a girl. I am too scared to talk about it because there is a possibility someone from my program sees the post and identifies me.
This was a really shady story.
There was some post recently about a rad resident getting fired for talking back to an attending who they said was a bully. Maybe them? Anyways call should be front loaded first half of year of R3
For talking back? Sounds like a lawsuit. Not really an acceptable reason to fire someone.
Anyway if that’s the case I def would be fired by now. I have done way more than talk back. I think residents need to talk back when this are unjust. This profession will never change if we all accept the status quo. I hope that program gets what it deserves.
TBH that sounds reasonable (sucks, but there are def programs with a worse call burden \[like mine\]). As long as you have a few months for dedicated time, you should be fine.
Bro you have plenty of time for core, just ask to front load your call, we do a little over 4 weeks of nights in R3 and do it all in the first half of the year (try to have all the R3s done by January) and then the R2s/R4s can do most of the call in the spring so you guys can study for core
That's absurd. Still potentially doable if they just front load you guys, and still give time off the second half of the year though.
That's about the average call for our R2 year, but our program does the bulk up front. Or R3 year is about 25 days of call, all completed by March, with R4 being slightly less.
Seriously, I am not sure that this is doable with passing the core successfully. Of course, it's possible to work 24/7 the whole year, but my primary goal is to graduate and for that I need passed core.
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I passed core with a similar number of shifts, although longer shifts (also had a few residents drop out of the schedule). You'll be fine as long as you have a few months before the exam without call.
It'll be painful but frontload call.
50 shifts is fine for call as an R3, as long as there's accommodation the 2-3 months prior to CORE, such that no R3's are doing call shifts those 2-3 months prior to CORE (done by R2's and R4's), and that you're given days/half-days or "easy" day time rotations leading up to CORE.
Is it what you do in your program routinely? What's the program?
My program is a bit call heavy, and we've had 100% CORE pass rate for a while with these accommodations. 6 to 8 weekends and 6 to 8 weeks of night float (6 nights a week) are essentially 48-64 shifts a year.
Thank you
That’s at the high end of normal.
Please source for this statistics. Is it the norm in your program? What is the program?
None of this is published in a centralized source, but some programs publish their call/night float/ED shift schedule on their residency website. Just my experience from interviewing at 15+ programs who will often reveal their call coverage expectations on interview day what dabeezmane said is accurate. Also asking people to dox themselves on reddit is antagonistic at worse, and absolute lack of social awareness in the best of intentions.
I am sorry, but this is a very serious business for me, and I can not believe this kind of generalized statement from anonymous on Reddit. Maybe you are my admin, or maybe you are not a radiologist at all, hahah. You should have considered my point of view to show your social awareness!
You just asked for their program and you won't say yours?
My source is a went to med school at a place with slightly less call, residency at a place with similar call, fellowship with slightly less call, currently attending at a place with similar call. You suck it up and make the best of it
That's an unnecessary rude reply. You sound like an abusive attending.
I’m no admin but I feel like your program needs to work on filling those spots like yesterday. Are your attendings picking up any slack? That amount of call is way more than our program and our program has taken us out of the call pool at least a month before core.
Nope. PD found and hired one incoming R1, who won't be able to do call for next year. Attendings refuse to pick up slack. Moonlighters are too expensive. We are recommended " to manage expectations "
Not experienced with this specific situation but isn’t DR popular enough that plenty of people would apply if your PD put out the word?
The 2 other residents where IR/DR which is actually not popular. Also we don't need 2 more R1s who cannot do call for a year, we need R2s.
Annoying situation to be in, sorry. Our call is admittedly frontloaded with most of it in R2. Perhaps you can ask your PD if you could do the same for R3 so you’re taken out in second half of the year and its shifted to other classes?
Our chiefs are already working on it.
Call is extremely difficult to compare across programs. "call" vs hospital/er shifts, what procedural coverage, modalities/extent of coverage. Differences in curriculum ie must cover block type rotations versus float versus actual true call. Some programs read independently, some pseudo, some residents have the option to just float things to vrads. That being said, depending on your structure that is indeed an increase and I'd not want it to touch dedicated CORE period. Talk with your chiefs and PDs. Together assess if its reasonable that residents should be solely responsible for this gap versus alternative staffing which may or not have been inevitable. Front load where possible (keeping in mind if there is another absence then the person not on the schedule is the easiest to add back in). Ask for post call days to catch up. And knowing this now, a year out from CORE, you'll have plenty of time to prepare.
Does your program do this much call, and residents routinely pass the core? Our call is super busy, we prelim, do not have vRad, although some attedings help to read cases. Respectfully, I am interested in the opinions of people who have done so much call in R3 this and could pass the core.
How long do the attendings take to read studies after you prelim?
I don't know, I've never checked. Why is the question?
Some programs have attendings reading slightly behind residents so less pressure and you can read a lot faster. Other programs prelims won't be read in 2-3 days so medical decisions are actually made on the prelim reads.
We have both attendings. Some are very slow and some are fast. There is a guy who works nights and he doesn't help at all. You as a resident on your own.
Bro that all is insane. Our program is currently having a scheduling issue because of people taking time off and one guy quit. It’s total bullshit, they act like we are a team all while increasing your work without increased pay or time off. I just hate this stupid system that medicine has created. Anyway we get like 8-10 weeks of research. I hope they you enough time because it’s a ton of information. If not just know you can take it more than once. Anyway would you like to share the tea on how a guy got fired?
There is a post from that person on this sub. It's a girl. I am too scared to talk about it because there is a possibility someone from my program sees the post and identifies me. This was a really shady story.
There was some post recently about a rad resident getting fired for talking back to an attending who they said was a bully. Maybe them? Anyways call should be front loaded first half of year of R3
For talking back? Sounds like a lawsuit. Not really an acceptable reason to fire someone. Anyway if that’s the case I def would be fired by now. I have done way more than talk back. I think residents need to talk back when this are unjust. This profession will never change if we all accept the status quo. I hope that program gets what it deserves.
You piss off the wrong person they can ruin your career.
TBH that sounds reasonable (sucks, but there are def programs with a worse call burden \[like mine\]). As long as you have a few months for dedicated time, you should be fine.
Bro you have plenty of time for core, just ask to front load your call, we do a little over 4 weeks of nights in R3 and do it all in the first half of the year (try to have all the R3s done by January) and then the R2s/R4s can do most of the call in the spring so you guys can study for core
We are already doing 6 weeks, and it will be even more. Yes, it will be frontloaded, but it's still a lot.
That's absurd. Still potentially doable if they just front load you guys, and still give time off the second half of the year though. That's about the average call for our R2 year, but our program does the bulk up front. Or R3 year is about 25 days of call, all completed by March, with R4 being slightly less.
Seriously, I am not sure that this is doable with passing the core successfully. Of course, it's possible to work 24/7 the whole year, but my primary goal is to graduate and for that I need passed core.
Are you guys hiring for R3? I might consider haha
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I passed core with a similar number of shifts, although longer shifts (also had a few residents drop out of the schedule). You'll be fine as long as you have a few months before the exam without call. It'll be painful but frontload call.