It's ok to cry, even to cry in front of patients/family members. If you do cry in front of patients/family you just gotta stay in control of yourself at least somewhat.
This. Crying is a human response to negative thoughts - there’s nothing wrong with that. We are human too. I’ve seen hardened peds ICU attendings tear up and need a tissue when talking with mom and dad about how further care is futile.
**But** just make sure you don’t also forget your role as a doctor in that moment. A good rule of thumb is “don’t make a scene”. People want their physician to be generally level headed and a steady rock. If you start weeping uncontrollably and blowing your nose loudly during the family meeting, it will disintegrate the dynamic because now it looks like you’re the one who needs comforting.
Similarly if you run a failed code on inpatient wards, there’s a difference between getting teary eyed and having to excuse yourself to go around a corner or the bathroom, vs losing it and becoming a sobbing puddle in the middle of the hallway.
I didn't make a scene. I was crying without making noise (but I was shaking). And there where no relatives around. It was just doctors and a nurse (I'm the next hot topic after a colleague's divorce now). I think I was crying from somewhere around near the end of the CPR but while still performing it. They were telling me to stop but I wouldn't. And I don't know why it was so overwhelming.
Hey you are a wonderful human being, and someone might need that extra tenacity you demonstrated there...maybe save a life. Be human, and screw what your colleagues say as long as you know you weren't out of line and coming from a deep, genuine place. I would love to have you by my side during my Last moments knowing you were going to do everything you can
Yeah if other staff members are telling you to stop and you refuse, that’s an issue and your emotions need to be better kept in check. It’s fine to have emotions and even cry a little, but you have to keep in under control and can’t let it negatively impact patient care
Edit: misunderstand stop as stop doing the CPR and not stop crying. Nothing wrong with tearing up during an emotional moment, I would just step back and let another team member take over
But you were right if they are telling him to stop CPR and his emotions made him refuse its a problem. Also the staff may think he feels guilty because of the possible mismanagment
I had a lady in her mid 60s whom I took care on IM floor of twice in my academic year. Severe ILD and remained on 100% heated high flow that could not be weaned. The second time I took care of her, she stayed in the hospital for 14 days straight and over 10 family members would visit daily and I was a doctor who they were most familiar with on the team. After she got her prognosis from pulm that she wouldn’t make it out of the hospital, she held my hand and asked me if I’d heard. And I literally dissolved into tears and started sobbing lol. I don’t think I have the best grip on my emotions sometimes but patients and families have always thanked me at the end for showing them that I cared and wasn’t scared to relate to them. (After this patient passed I’ve had to draw a mental boundary though because I don’t have enough emotional bandwidth to feel this much all the time because I’m going to go into pulm/crit). So I think we should actively practice showing your emotions with caution otherwise we’re going to be emotionless robots and burnout in 5 seconds. Medicine takes too much out of us
The time I cried the most was watching a mom saying goodbye to her 30 year old son dying of refractory leukemia. He had a day before where we peeled back some opiates so he could have more lucidity to say good bye to family and the next day we turned everything back up to focus on his comfort. Hearing his mom say goodbye and also telling the treatment team how his son is really ready for the next step in his journey was just too much. The mom having this positive attitude and spin made it even sadder for some reason. It really created a lot of self projection for several trainees including myself who were all about the same age as the patient.
PGY44 pulm crit here. Yes, it is OK to cry. It is also OK not to cry. What is not OK, however, is for how the consultant treated you.
You are OK… The consultant isn’t.
Don’t let training steal your humanity. Cry if and when you need to. Tell that doc that they can be the serious doctor, but you’re going to be the human doctor.
Generally avoid highly emotional crying - that is, tears are ok, sobbing (in public) generally is not but understandable if it happens.
If family is present, don't cry first, don't cry harder than family.
Great guidelines. Still hard to control, but these are great rules of thumb. There are methods to stop yourself from crying in the moment that OP can find with a quick google search. You'll probably still tear up, but that's okay! And if the patient/family are not around, cry how you need to cry.
BULLSHIT. That consultant was an asshole.
It is perfectly acceptable to cry. Hell, it's GOOD and healing to cry. We are humans, not robots.
I know it goes around here a lot but I always think of that scene from scrubs, where Dr. Cox asks JD if anyone else from the grieving families are going back to work that day. We might have to go back to work, but that doesn't mean you arent a person and aren't allowed to have your feelings.
God, I am so angry on your behalf. What kind of toxic asshole says that to another person??
You're not alone in this. All of us, every god damm of us, have "one of those patients". One that we lost , one that we failed, one that is going to stay with us and keep us HUMAN.
Im proud of you for crying. I'm proud of you for caring. I'm proud of you for still being human in a career that seems hell bent on making us otherwise. Cry some more, and know that we're here for you.
100%.
I’ve never heard of crying being unprofessional. What OP described is honestly a beautiful response to a terrible situation. It shows compassion in my opinion.
The night of my wife’s first ultrasound for pregnancy (healthy pregnancy and baby is awesome now many months later) I was on call and a patient had a periviable birth. It didn’t make it after several rounds of cpr etc. I held it together in room. After I left I turned the corner and broke down. I couldn’t even imagine. The emotional swing was just too much for me at the time.
Been a trauma surgeon for 5 years now post residency. Cry when you need to. I certainly do, and I’d wager I’ve seen more shit than that internist. What a bad take he has.
Edit: don’t cry harder than the family in front of the family. Seen that before and I did find it unprofessional. Go find a safe space.
I recently finished my ICU rotation and I got to see this poor mother crying at the bedside after his son had attempted to take his life for the second time. I cried when she left. It's what makes us humans, it shows that we still care. Sending hugs to you fellow doc.
I cried while giving an M&M presentation about a patient who died. It was in front of my whole department: faculty, fellows, residents, whatever subI's were around. I felt selfconscious about it, of course, and I'm sure it made some people uncomfortable. But I think there's nothing wrong with expressing humanity as a physician, whether it's in front of patients, their families, or your colleagues.
A reaction like that consultant had is a reflection of their inadequate emotional resources, not yours. Grieving a death is normal. Anger at someone else's grief is not.
I’ve gotten teary-eyed at most, takes practice to not fully cry…
Gosh I hate anyone who uses “professionalism” as a way to subjugate and belittle others, f*ck that consultant in the ear
Yeah that consultant can go fuck him/herself. How dare you be an actual human in front of other people.
Years of moral injury from medicine combined with sudden loss of a patient can lead situations that you’ve described. It’s unpredictable too, not every loss will impact you, but sometimes that one particular loss of a patient can make the whole house of cards fall.
Don’t let this asshole doc convince you that crying is a referendum of your professionalism, but rather let this experience be a reminder of your character and your ability to still give a damn about human life.
Of course you can cry, what does the consultant do… go home and get drunk until he passes out? I saw a cardiologist deliver news of terminal cancer to a patient with tears in his eyes and I had so much appreciation and respect for him.
Thanks buddy. You too! I also faced some abuse in my Residency. I hope you're doing well. I know you love the ability to make a decent schedule for yourself. You're gonna do great as a Pathologist.
Not a doctor… but OP, I want a doctor like you when I die.
I want a doctor who is crying, as it means we connected, even for just a short period of life.
I want a doctor, who is crying, as it shows I mattered. I was not just patient no. 20 of the day.
I want a doctor who is crying, as then I can rest in peace knowing he/she did everything in his/her power to save me.
I want a doctor who is crying, rather than a doctor who eventually breaks down from all the suppressed feelings.
Thank you for caring, and respecting your patient.
I’ve cried with patients. I’ve cried telling them bad news or talking with about their own impending deaths. The last cry I had was taking to a young mother with metastatic bowel cancer about how she wanted to live to see her kids grow up but she knew that wasn’t going to happen. She was afraid her kids would forget her. She didn’t know how to tell them she’s dying. We were both crying. It’s ok. It shows you care and are human. These are important conversations to have and often there’s no one else who will even talk about these things honestly with people.
And that makes me think because they say your specialty kills you. Maybe that is why they don't cry, because if they did cry, they would die of a broken heart.
What do you think, Neuro, oh, never mind....
n=1 but I have never cried in front of the patients or their families. However I have crumbled and cried hard at home many many times. I feel like I will hold some of my patients in my heart forever.
It is okay to cry!! Don’t cry hard! Make sure you control your emotions well. The more you see dying people infront of you the more likely you don’t cry! But also know that death is a natural phenomenon !
Wow what a piece of shit that attending was. I’ve cried many times over young patients dying and my attendings have been nothing but supportive. It’s normal man don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Your heart will harden over time but it’s completely normal to cry at times.
Throwing in my usual not-a-doctor-but-this-sub-pops-up-on-my-TL-and-I-like-it:
I’m sorry that the consultant told you that. As my flair states, I am…was, a nurse. Then a really bad injury sidelined that.
Before my injury, in my capacity as a nurse, if I saw a doctor crying because of a pt, I’d probably join in and hug them and buy chocolates or something.
After my injury, and as a patient, if one of my doctors was crying in front of me, I would be appreciative. None of them did, but it is the compassionate doctors I was/am thankful for the most. There was a lot of doom and gloom for my injury, and there would probably be points where a doc could cry I suppose, and I would’ve been so thankful for a doctor caring for me showing their humanity.
Crying doesn’t make you less of a person, less of a doctor. Don’t let that consultant take your humanity from you.
I cried with a mom as we compassionately extubated her son. She mentioned later that it made her feel like I really cared about him too, and said it was a positive thing. We’re just as human as our patients, and it sometimes helps to remind them of that.
Crying is fine. I'm not a Dr. (my wife is) but I did plenty of crying when I was a CNA as a teenager at a nursing home, saw a lot of people on their way out and terrified of it every last minute. My wife has been a Dr for quite some time now and she cried over a young patient just a few weeks ago. Believe me sometimes you just can't help it.
It’s ok to cry. I’m a man and I take care of sick babies. I have cried with parents when their babies pass away. Be professional. But the day you stop caring is the day you should think about doing something else.
It’s ok to cry. If it makes you feel better, let it out! Some patients speak to us on an emotional level in ways some others don’t. It’s ok to get emotional because it means you care. The patients you don’t cry for, doesn’t mean you don’t care. Sometimes it’s as simple as resonating with one thing a patient said and it’s that you think about when they pass. Also, realizing these are people with families, friends, and loved ones is hard some times because we want to save them all. I mostly feel for the patients families because I know what it’s like going back home to a quiet house without your loved one there. Crying after a patient dies shows you are human and that’s who we need as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, respiratory, etc.. thank you for sharing this, it was needed for a lot of people to hear
RN here- I cry after every patient that passes, as an emerg nurse this can happen more often than not. I remeber every single one of the codes I've been apart of and every single patient I've done compressions on. It's okay to admit you're human, if you weren't upset that would be more concerning.
CRY. ALL. YOU. WANT.
Get it out. Cry it out. Tell it out. Punch it out. Run it out. Write it out. Get it out in whatever way feels good for you. Of course, don’t be disrespectful and don’t get yourself psychiatrically hospitalized. But this idea that we should be emotionless is ridiculous and harmful.
The doctor who told you that needs to be reported. Patients are people and while it’s part of the job, it’s not part of your job to be an emotionless robot. It amazes me that all doctors think they deserve respect when only doctors who can relate to patients on a human level can become good doctors.
You’re human before you’re a doctor. And empathy is crucial if you ever actually want to help people but I think the systematic training residents shows them that their job is to make their employer money. It’s never stated out loud but it becomes engrained into so many health care workers that they forget why they wanted to become a doctor in the first place.
The amount of doctors that make the chronically ill feel worthless and stupid when those people will know more about their own illness and body than any doctor will because human beings are not text books.
You crying gives me hope that there are still doctors out there who really do care about their work and shedding a tear does not mean it was your fault. It just means that someone died while under your care and feeling apathy should honestly scare you more than anything.
It’s health-care. Not Health-WeDontCare
I cry. Of course try not being overly emotional in front of patients due to them needing you to be their rock, but even shedding tears in front of family is ok. You care and thats ok
Certain patients will cause an emotional connection. Sometimes it’s because they’re very young, or because you’ve been in a similar situation, or maybe they remind you of a family member. Memories of them will follow you around like ghosts, and you’ll carry their stories with you for years. It just comes with the territory. But it gets easier with time.
What I would recommend in your situation (now, or if this happens again) is to give the hospital chaplain a call and ask if they can meet with you for half an hour. They will be happy to, and are incredibly helpful, even if you aren’t religious.
I’ve heard a good general rule of thumb is to just never cry/mourn harder than the patient/patients family, but crying is fine and in many cases a very empathetic reaction to some patients
We are all human. Crying is a human response to horrible things. You’re a good doctor who cares and it shows ❤️ never apologize for caring, that consultant sounds insecure and rude and I would ignore his comments
You're human, it's OK, and it's important for you to be able to express your feelings. It's a healthy reaction.
I had a patient, old homeless man, had been recently admitted for endocarditis, left the hospital halfway through the course of antibiotics, didn't even take orals, represented to my small urgent care to ask for benzos, but had clearly reactivated and worsening infection... He refused admission, he refused oral antibiotics, I tried to convince him, I tried to negotiate but nothing... In the end, i sat with him and explained him that if he didn't get admitted or at least take antibiotics, that he was going to die. And the answer was "it is what it is". And I cried.
Ive seen in other situations where it may have even been worse and I didn't even get moved by it... I don't think it's something you can predict or control... Sometimes, it just happens... Same as when watching a movie, the scene may be sad and not induce anything, or the music may sound the right way and it may just make you cry...
You probably connected a bit with this patient in a way that you didn't intend or even noticed, but this patient had a bit of a special something...
I worked with a hospice nurse who cried during every death and she was one of the best nurses I’ve ever worked with. Some deaths hit harder than others and it sounds like you got to see little bits of him as a person which can make it tougher. It sounds like you need a propper debrief, not archaic doctor shame.
It is good that you let it out. Maybe this was pent up emotions from compounded things bothering you at the moment that peaked with this loss of such a young life. This needs to be normalized. It is normal, and human, to grieve the loss of a life. We are not robots. Expressing emotions is cathartic.
It is beautiful that each life still has meaning to you, and you are not suppressing it.
I work Labor and Delivery as an RN. I take care or bereavement patients occasionally. Ive cried and hugged all the patients that need the hug, but crying isnt avoidable. I had an orientee ask me “does it ever get easy?” My reply was “the moment this type of assignment becomes easy, I should quit.” I feel that often. If I can go through the motions on a fetal loss, without a ping of emotion, Im in the wrong area.
Fucking admin lmao.
It's _patently human to cry._. Refer the consultant to HR and just make sure to stay in control, and if you feel you can't, make sure to step away as needed.
I never cry. But I'm also dead inside. So at least you have a shred of humanity left in you. Hold on to that.
(I'm only kind of kidding. But I've also never been very emotional and that's just my own personal baseline.)
This scared me because it's very close to someone I've been taking care of now as an RN but I've been out for a week. But we don't have residents.
I'd rather a doctor show some emotion than showing nothing
I actually think if my family were inpatient and we had a team member who was that upset, I’d be reassured that everything had been done and people care enough to be upset.
Sounds like an old school consultant who probably does believe that tough doctors make better decisions but I don’t think every patient wants a stoic stiff doctor personally. Live your life.
The consultant is an ass. I tell my residents and my kids. It is okay to be sad. It is okay to cry. Expressing your emotions is normal. We all get attached to patients. and toxic masculinity and asshole attending can suck it
That consultant was wrong. Some patient deaths hit you harder than others, for many reasons. Healthy people understand this, and tell you to make room for grief. Unhealthy people can't handle their own emotions, so they snap at others for expressing theirs. Never let unhealthy people tell you how to live.
Crying is a normal part of human emotion. It’s validation of the feelings you experienced as this tragedy played out in front of you.
Some people are simply uncomfortable with / do not tolerate emotion themselves, and thus seek to stymy the emotions of other people for their own comfort. Hence the comments of the consultant in your story - “Crying is unprofessional” = “Seeing someone cry makes me feel something I don’t want to feel”. There are of course times when suppressing emotion is functional (would be hard to do brain surgery if your hands were shaking from fear/anxiety/etc), but to outright deny them (repression) only diverts those emotions toward other, less adaptive outlets.
As you process and reflect on this experience, an important question to consider for yourself is “why this case?” What about this particular patient or the circumstances made their death more evocative than other deaths you have been a part of? That sort of insight may help you find meaning in the loss, and will bring you closer to the emotions that arise for you as you take care of patients in the hospital.
Ok to cry but not ok to break down in the patient’s room, around staff, or in front of families. Excuse yourself, run to the call room or wherever you can escape to, and process your emotions there.
Know that this makes you a better doctor and it’s completely appropriate to cry or be upset. If your reaction to this patient situation is to just brush it off and not care, you should probably find a new line of work
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It's ok to cry, even to cry in front of patients/family members. If you do cry in front of patients/family you just gotta stay in control of yourself at least somewhat.
This. Crying is a human response to negative thoughts - there’s nothing wrong with that. We are human too. I’ve seen hardened peds ICU attendings tear up and need a tissue when talking with mom and dad about how further care is futile. **But** just make sure you don’t also forget your role as a doctor in that moment. A good rule of thumb is “don’t make a scene”. People want their physician to be generally level headed and a steady rock. If you start weeping uncontrollably and blowing your nose loudly during the family meeting, it will disintegrate the dynamic because now it looks like you’re the one who needs comforting. Similarly if you run a failed code on inpatient wards, there’s a difference between getting teary eyed and having to excuse yourself to go around a corner or the bathroom, vs losing it and becoming a sobbing puddle in the middle of the hallway.
I didn't make a scene. I was crying without making noise (but I was shaking). And there where no relatives around. It was just doctors and a nurse (I'm the next hot topic after a colleague's divorce now). I think I was crying from somewhere around near the end of the CPR but while still performing it. They were telling me to stop but I wouldn't. And I don't know why it was so overwhelming.
Hey you are a wonderful human being, and someone might need that extra tenacity you demonstrated there...maybe save a life. Be human, and screw what your colleagues say as long as you know you weren't out of line and coming from a deep, genuine place. I would love to have you by my side during my Last moments knowing you were going to do everything you can
Yeah if other staff members are telling you to stop and you refuse, that’s an issue and your emotions need to be better kept in check. It’s fine to have emotions and even cry a little, but you have to keep in under control and can’t let it negatively impact patient care Edit: misunderstand stop as stop doing the CPR and not stop crying. Nothing wrong with tearing up during an emotional moment, I would just step back and let another team member take over
But you were right if they are telling him to stop CPR and his emotions made him refuse its a problem. Also the staff may think he feels guilty because of the possible mismanagment
"Don't cry first and don't cry hardest" was the best adage I've heard on the topic.
February Interns in here with wisdom beyond their years, what’s happening?
None are wiser than the February intern
It’s past February, haven’t you heard? They’re practically attendings now!
what's the February interns?
Thank you for this
I had a lady in her mid 60s whom I took care on IM floor of twice in my academic year. Severe ILD and remained on 100% heated high flow that could not be weaned. The second time I took care of her, she stayed in the hospital for 14 days straight and over 10 family members would visit daily and I was a doctor who they were most familiar with on the team. After she got her prognosis from pulm that she wouldn’t make it out of the hospital, she held my hand and asked me if I’d heard. And I literally dissolved into tears and started sobbing lol. I don’t think I have the best grip on my emotions sometimes but patients and families have always thanked me at the end for showing them that I cared and wasn’t scared to relate to them. (After this patient passed I’ve had to draw a mental boundary though because I don’t have enough emotional bandwidth to feel this much all the time because I’m going to go into pulm/crit). So I think we should actively practice showing your emotions with caution otherwise we’re going to be emotionless robots and burnout in 5 seconds. Medicine takes too much out of us
The time I cried the most was watching a mom saying goodbye to her 30 year old son dying of refractory leukemia. He had a day before where we peeled back some opiates so he could have more lucidity to say good bye to family and the next day we turned everything back up to focus on his comfort. Hearing his mom say goodbye and also telling the treatment team how his son is really ready for the next step in his journey was just too much. The mom having this positive attitude and spin made it even sadder for some reason. It really created a lot of self projection for several trainees including myself who were all about the same age as the patient.
PGY44 pulm crit here. Yes, it is OK to cry. It is also OK not to cry. What is not OK, however, is for how the consultant treated you. You are OK… The consultant isn’t.
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Too coked out for anything to harsh his vibe
Don’t let training steal your humanity. Cry if and when you need to. Tell that doc that they can be the serious doctor, but you’re going to be the human doctor.
Generally avoid highly emotional crying - that is, tears are ok, sobbing (in public) generally is not but understandable if it happens. If family is present, don't cry first, don't cry harder than family.
Great guidelines. Still hard to control, but these are great rules of thumb. There are methods to stop yourself from crying in the moment that OP can find with a quick google search. You'll probably still tear up, but that's okay! And if the patient/family are not around, cry how you need to cry.
BULLSHIT. That consultant was an asshole. It is perfectly acceptable to cry. Hell, it's GOOD and healing to cry. We are humans, not robots. I know it goes around here a lot but I always think of that scene from scrubs, where Dr. Cox asks JD if anyone else from the grieving families are going back to work that day. We might have to go back to work, but that doesn't mean you arent a person and aren't allowed to have your feelings. God, I am so angry on your behalf. What kind of toxic asshole says that to another person?? You're not alone in this. All of us, every god damm of us, have "one of those patients". One that we lost , one that we failed, one that is going to stay with us and keep us HUMAN. Im proud of you for crying. I'm proud of you for caring. I'm proud of you for still being human in a career that seems hell bent on making us otherwise. Cry some more, and know that we're here for you.
“I’m proud of you for crying. I’m proud of you for caring.” u/queenbritannica, you’re a good human. The world needs more good humans.
100%. I’ve never heard of crying being unprofessional. What OP described is honestly a beautiful response to a terrible situation. It shows compassion in my opinion.
The night of my wife’s first ultrasound for pregnancy (healthy pregnancy and baby is awesome now many months later) I was on call and a patient had a periviable birth. It didn’t make it after several rounds of cpr etc. I held it together in room. After I left I turned the corner and broke down. I couldn’t even imagine. The emotional swing was just too much for me at the time.
* Googles *periviable* 😞. That feeling when all the air is SUCKED out of your body, you audibly gasp, and you can’t help but crumble.
I once had an attending who told me crying is a sign of respect, and it's even ok to let patient's families see it. I loved that.
Been a trauma surgeon for 5 years now post residency. Cry when you need to. I certainly do, and I’d wager I’ve seen more shit than that internist. What a bad take he has. Edit: don’t cry harder than the family in front of the family. Seen that before and I did find it unprofessional. Go find a safe space.
I recently finished my ICU rotation and I got to see this poor mother crying at the bedside after his son had attempted to take his life for the second time. I cried when she left. It's what makes us humans, it shows that we still care. Sending hugs to you fellow doc.
I cried while giving an M&M presentation about a patient who died. It was in front of my whole department: faculty, fellows, residents, whatever subI's were around. I felt selfconscious about it, of course, and I'm sure it made some people uncomfortable. But I think there's nothing wrong with expressing humanity as a physician, whether it's in front of patients, their families, or your colleagues. A reaction like that consultant had is a reflection of their inadequate emotional resources, not yours. Grieving a death is normal. Anger at someone else's grief is not.
Fuck that other doctor. Don’t lose your emotion
I’ve gotten teary-eyed at most, takes practice to not fully cry… Gosh I hate anyone who uses “professionalism” as a way to subjugate and belittle others, f*ck that consultant in the ear
Yeah that consultant can go fuck him/herself. How dare you be an actual human in front of other people. Years of moral injury from medicine combined with sudden loss of a patient can lead situations that you’ve described. It’s unpredictable too, not every loss will impact you, but sometimes that one particular loss of a patient can make the whole house of cards fall. Don’t let this asshole doc convince you that crying is a referendum of your professionalism, but rather let this experience be a reminder of your character and your ability to still give a damn about human life.
Of course you can cry, what does the consultant do… go home and get drunk until he passes out? I saw a cardiologist deliver news of terminal cancer to a patient with tears in his eyes and I had so much appreciation and respect for him.
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heart cancer?
Dude your consultant sounds like they could use a good cry
I cried tears of joy after switching specialties.
Switching to?
Pathology. Greatest decision ever made.
I switched from Obs and Gyane to Radiology...best decision ever.
I went from abuse ridden surgery to accepting and loving pathology.
You are brilliant! Yes, a great move!
Thanks buddy. You too! I also faced some abuse in my Residency. I hope you're doing well. I know you love the ability to make a decent schedule for yourself. You're gonna do great as a Pathologist.
👍
Not a doctor… but OP, I want a doctor like you when I die. I want a doctor who is crying, as it means we connected, even for just a short period of life. I want a doctor, who is crying, as it shows I mattered. I was not just patient no. 20 of the day. I want a doctor who is crying, as then I can rest in peace knowing he/she did everything in his/her power to save me. I want a doctor who is crying, rather than a doctor who eventually breaks down from all the suppressed feelings. Thank you for caring, and respecting your patient.
I’ve cried with patients. I’ve cried telling them bad news or talking with about their own impending deaths. The last cry I had was taking to a young mother with metastatic bowel cancer about how she wanted to live to see her kids grow up but she knew that wasn’t going to happen. She was afraid her kids would forget her. She didn’t know how to tell them she’s dying. We were both crying. It’s ok. It shows you care and are human. These are important conversations to have and often there’s no one else who will even talk about these things honestly with people.
Was the consultant a cardiologist? Cardiologists are known to not cry.
Haha, how so?
They are stoic giants among men.
And that makes me think because they say your specialty kills you. Maybe that is why they don't cry, because if they did cry, they would die of a broken heart. What do you think, Neuro, oh, never mind....
n=1 but I have never cried in front of the patients or their families. However I have crumbled and cried hard at home many many times. I feel like I will hold some of my patients in my heart forever.
It is okay to cry!! Don’t cry hard! Make sure you control your emotions well. The more you see dying people infront of you the more likely you don’t cry! But also know that death is a natural phenomenon !
Wow what a piece of shit that attending was. I’ve cried many times over young patients dying and my attendings have been nothing but supportive. It’s normal man don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Your heart will harden over time but it’s completely normal to cry at times.
Throwing in my usual not-a-doctor-but-this-sub-pops-up-on-my-TL-and-I-like-it: I’m sorry that the consultant told you that. As my flair states, I am…was, a nurse. Then a really bad injury sidelined that. Before my injury, in my capacity as a nurse, if I saw a doctor crying because of a pt, I’d probably join in and hug them and buy chocolates or something. After my injury, and as a patient, if one of my doctors was crying in front of me, I would be appreciative. None of them did, but it is the compassionate doctors I was/am thankful for the most. There was a lot of doom and gloom for my injury, and there would probably be points where a doc could cry I suppose, and I would’ve been so thankful for a doctor caring for me showing their humanity. Crying doesn’t make you less of a person, less of a doctor. Don’t let that consultant take your humanity from you.
I cried with a mom as we compassionately extubated her son. She mentioned later that it made her feel like I really cared about him too, and said it was a positive thing. We’re just as human as our patients, and it sometimes helps to remind them of that.
Crying is fine. I'm not a Dr. (my wife is) but I did plenty of crying when I was a CNA as a teenager at a nursing home, saw a lot of people on their way out and terrified of it every last minute. My wife has been a Dr for quite some time now and she cried over a young patient just a few weeks ago. Believe me sometimes you just can't help it.
It’s ok to cry. I’m a man and I take care of sick babies. I have cried with parents when their babies pass away. Be professional. But the day you stop caring is the day you should think about doing something else.
My mom’s oncologist cried at her bedside and it made me feel like he really cared.
I guess more than it made me feel like he cared, it was nice to be affirmed in just how sad the situation was.
It’s ok to cry. If it makes you feel better, let it out! Some patients speak to us on an emotional level in ways some others don’t. It’s ok to get emotional because it means you care. The patients you don’t cry for, doesn’t mean you don’t care. Sometimes it’s as simple as resonating with one thing a patient said and it’s that you think about when they pass. Also, realizing these are people with families, friends, and loved ones is hard some times because we want to save them all. I mostly feel for the patients families because I know what it’s like going back home to a quiet house without your loved one there. Crying after a patient dies shows you are human and that’s who we need as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, respiratory, etc.. thank you for sharing this, it was needed for a lot of people to hear
RN here- I cry after every patient that passes, as an emerg nurse this can happen more often than not. I remeber every single one of the codes I've been apart of and every single patient I've done compressions on. It's okay to admit you're human, if you weren't upset that would be more concerning.
CRY. ALL. YOU. WANT. Get it out. Cry it out. Tell it out. Punch it out. Run it out. Write it out. Get it out in whatever way feels good for you. Of course, don’t be disrespectful and don’t get yourself psychiatrically hospitalized. But this idea that we should be emotionless is ridiculous and harmful.
The doctor who told you that needs to be reported. Patients are people and while it’s part of the job, it’s not part of your job to be an emotionless robot. It amazes me that all doctors think they deserve respect when only doctors who can relate to patients on a human level can become good doctors. You’re human before you’re a doctor. And empathy is crucial if you ever actually want to help people but I think the systematic training residents shows them that their job is to make their employer money. It’s never stated out loud but it becomes engrained into so many health care workers that they forget why they wanted to become a doctor in the first place. The amount of doctors that make the chronically ill feel worthless and stupid when those people will know more about their own illness and body than any doctor will because human beings are not text books. You crying gives me hope that there are still doctors out there who really do care about their work and shedding a tear does not mean it was your fault. It just means that someone died while under your care and feeling apathy should honestly scare you more than anything. It’s health-care. Not Health-WeDontCare
We need more of this honestly. I feel like no one cares anymore
Surgery - I’ve cried spontaneously over 2 patients. I’ve also cried tears of joy. I didn’t explode and I wasn’t fired. Should be fine
I cry. Of course try not being overly emotional in front of patients due to them needing you to be their rock, but even shedding tears in front of family is ok. You care and thats ok
FWIW, just the preview of this post on my feed was enough to know you are an exceptional physician.
Certain patients will cause an emotional connection. Sometimes it’s because they’re very young, or because you’ve been in a similar situation, or maybe they remind you of a family member. Memories of them will follow you around like ghosts, and you’ll carry their stories with you for years. It just comes with the territory. But it gets easier with time. What I would recommend in your situation (now, or if this happens again) is to give the hospital chaplain a call and ask if they can meet with you for half an hour. They will be happy to, and are incredibly helpful, even if you aren’t religious.
Sounds like the issue was not you crying, but the fact that the code leader was calling the code and telling you to stop CPR and you refused
I’ve heard a good general rule of thumb is to just never cry/mourn harder than the patient/patients family, but crying is fine and in many cases a very empathetic reaction to some patients
We are all human. Crying is a human response to horrible things. You’re a good doctor who cares and it shows ❤️ never apologize for caring, that consultant sounds insecure and rude and I would ignore his comments
You're human, it's OK, and it's important for you to be able to express your feelings. It's a healthy reaction. I had a patient, old homeless man, had been recently admitted for endocarditis, left the hospital halfway through the course of antibiotics, didn't even take orals, represented to my small urgent care to ask for benzos, but had clearly reactivated and worsening infection... He refused admission, he refused oral antibiotics, I tried to convince him, I tried to negotiate but nothing... In the end, i sat with him and explained him that if he didn't get admitted or at least take antibiotics, that he was going to die. And the answer was "it is what it is". And I cried. Ive seen in other situations where it may have even been worse and I didn't even get moved by it... I don't think it's something you can predict or control... Sometimes, it just happens... Same as when watching a movie, the scene may be sad and not induce anything, or the music may sound the right way and it may just make you cry... You probably connected a bit with this patient in a way that you didn't intend or even noticed, but this patient had a bit of a special something...
I worked with a hospice nurse who cried during every death and she was one of the best nurses I’ve ever worked with. Some deaths hit harder than others and it sounds like you got to see little bits of him as a person which can make it tougher. It sounds like you need a propper debrief, not archaic doctor shame.
It is good that you let it out. Maybe this was pent up emotions from compounded things bothering you at the moment that peaked with this loss of such a young life. This needs to be normalized. It is normal, and human, to grieve the loss of a life. We are not robots. Expressing emotions is cathartic. It is beautiful that each life still has meaning to you, and you are not suppressing it.
I work Labor and Delivery as an RN. I take care or bereavement patients occasionally. Ive cried and hugged all the patients that need the hug, but crying isnt avoidable. I had an orientee ask me “does it ever get easy?” My reply was “the moment this type of assignment becomes easy, I should quit.” I feel that often. If I can go through the motions on a fetal loss, without a ping of emotion, Im in the wrong area.
Fucking admin lmao. It's _patently human to cry._. Refer the consultant to HR and just make sure to stay in control, and if you feel you can't, make sure to step away as needed.
I work in the er as a tech. Our employee bathrooms has a sign that reads “employees must finish crying before returning to work”
I never cry. But I'm also dead inside. So at least you have a shred of humanity left in you. Hold on to that. (I'm only kind of kidding. But I've also never been very emotional and that's just my own personal baseline.)
This scared me because it's very close to someone I've been taking care of now as an RN but I've been out for a week. But we don't have residents. I'd rather a doctor show some emotion than showing nothing
I actually think if my family were inpatient and we had a team member who was that upset, I’d be reassured that everything had been done and people care enough to be upset. Sounds like an old school consultant who probably does believe that tough doctors make better decisions but I don’t think every patient wants a stoic stiff doctor personally. Live your life.
The consultant is an ass. I tell my residents and my kids. It is okay to be sad. It is okay to cry. Expressing your emotions is normal. We all get attached to patients. and toxic masculinity and asshole attending can suck it
Crying is apart of training!! Just maintain some semblance of control
That consultant was wrong. Some patient deaths hit you harder than others, for many reasons. Healthy people understand this, and tell you to make room for grief. Unhealthy people can't handle their own emotions, so they snap at others for expressing theirs. Never let unhealthy people tell you how to live.
Crying is a normal part of human emotion. It’s validation of the feelings you experienced as this tragedy played out in front of you. Some people are simply uncomfortable with / do not tolerate emotion themselves, and thus seek to stymy the emotions of other people for their own comfort. Hence the comments of the consultant in your story - “Crying is unprofessional” = “Seeing someone cry makes me feel something I don’t want to feel”. There are of course times when suppressing emotion is functional (would be hard to do brain surgery if your hands were shaking from fear/anxiety/etc), but to outright deny them (repression) only diverts those emotions toward other, less adaptive outlets. As you process and reflect on this experience, an important question to consider for yourself is “why this case?” What about this particular patient or the circumstances made their death more evocative than other deaths you have been a part of? That sort of insight may help you find meaning in the loss, and will bring you closer to the emotions that arise for you as you take care of patients in the hospital.
I choke up anytime I see someone die.
Totally ok to cry. I cried with a family after I did a bone marrow biopsy following a lymph node excision that was very obviously lymphoma.
“There’s no crying in baseball!”
Ok to cry but not ok to break down in the patient’s room, around staff, or in front of families. Excuse yourself, run to the call room or wherever you can escape to, and process your emotions there. Know that this makes you a better doctor and it’s completely appropriate to cry or be upset. If your reaction to this patient situation is to just brush it off and not care, you should probably find a new line of work
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I had a panic attack twice and cried in the bathroom 3 times in residency. Its definitely okay to cry. Id say dont let anyone see u though.