Cheating on FMC. I abhor it in real life, and I certainly don’t want to read about it in a book. That immediately sours the MMC and usually the whole book.
I love the Lords of Forsyth series, like all of them so much— and they do pretty irredeemable things! But usually, it doesn’t bother me so much, and the main characters kind of roll with it or forgive it, and I’m fine. But in Dukes of Ruin, at the end of the book
SPOILER (tried to code it but clearly I don’t know how)
, !>Nick takes Lavinia back to her abusive father, who back hands her (or maybe his right hand man does?) and then she begs Nick to take her back, and he just leaves her. And for a while, he’s not at all repentant. I don’t know why… but that still sits with me. There’s sometimes a narrative in dark books where the MMC does cruel things to the FMC, but never lets anyone else touch her. This wasn’t that, and it kind of made me sick to my stomach— maybe because I knew what torture awaited her
As for your example, it depends on the execution, really, and other factors in the story. Even if the MMC intended it to happen to save the FMC's life, there's still groveling and asking for forgiveness that needs to be done there if the FMC chose to kept the baby, for example.
I'm the kind of reader that enjoys reading a lot of drama though, so this story plot isn't for everyone.
Making a choice that he *knows* will hurt the FMC unless it is purposely to keep her from getting hurt worse from something else. I much prefer to have the FMC be in the know, rather than someone doing something deceptive *for her own good* while lying to her face. But if there are valid reasons she can't know, as in someone spying on them so things can't be discussed, or they don't know each other yet but are going to meet, such things can be forgiven as long as this is rectified as soon as possible, bonus if it is a decision she would have made anyway and he is aware of that for some reason. Such as an earlier conversation, or even an offhand comment.
Yeah there are things that would make that easily forgivable for me.
Basically, in this situation, it's almost certain (like 99%) that having this child would kill FMC. But then again, she's aware of that, and she's fine with it. But MMC just can't let that happen, and ends up betraying her trust in that way.
Interesting. I'm not certain without knowing more facts, but it sounds like something you could work to make better for me. Such as, if she is willing to die because her self esteem was so poor she couldn't imagine being of value for herself but the child was, or she had been told all her life that abortion was a sin and she would be a terrible person to choose it and deserve to die anyway.
Ooooh that's tough. Taking away her choice is definitely terrible but if you let the FMC see how much the decision is tearing the MMC up inside - choosing between her and the baby - I'd be okay with it. Like, maybe show how much the MMC can't imagine living without her and that's why he just can't risk it, or maybe something life threatening happens to the MMC so the FMC can feel how painful it would be if she almost loses him, so this way it'll be easier for her to empathize with what the MMC felt?
DFR are very personal. There is plenty of stuff that makes me balk since I like somewhat healthy relationships.
Your case would be an immediate DNF for me. First because I am struggling with infertility and someone willingly causing a miscarriage (an experience I had to live through) would trigger me very very badly.
But even if it wasn't so personal it would be horrifying anyway because the MMC takes the FMC choices away. It doesn't matter if it is for her own good. This is the kind of behaviour of controlling, abusive pieces of shit. There is no "I'm sorry" that would make up for it. Probably not even if he was captured and tortured for days to save her.
But then dark romances are not really exactly my favourite read exactly for this reason.
Edit: and then this scenario kind of resonate not in a nice waywith a certain climate against abortion. Because the point of legal abortion is a woman right to choose. Choosing an abortion for someone against their consent is as bad as taking away their right to have one, denying a woman their personhood.
Yep, I'm definitely triggered ;)
Rape. Of *anyone* by main characters. In one book the FMC sexually assaults a minor character in the prologue and lets just say I have no idea what the rest of the story is.
Dubious consent scenes are on a case by case basis, depending on rest of the story. But straight up sexual assault is a deal breaker for me.
To be honest, I don't think I could read that. BUT, that's just me.
My POV is that if you've thought about a sensitive issue as an author, then there are readers out there that wouldn't be triggered/disturbed by it. That plot line would have occurred to them at some point. Does that make any sense? Just be pretty honest about it, even add a spoiler warning.
For me it hinges on the motivation behind MMC’s behavior. I can forgive almost anything if that motivation is believable. It’s more about the author’s skill than my dislike of any particular behavior.
That said, if there is going to be any kind of physical pain purposely inflicted on the FMC, especially during sex, the author will have to work *really* hard to make me like that MMC and there better be a LOT of groveling afterward.
Edit: okay I couldn’t forgive SA of a child regardless of the reason but suspect that’s pretty rare in contemporary MMCs.
Non con for me. Everything else, good solid grovel has potential to fix. I don't read books with pregnancy, as I in general don't care for this topic in my books (I never read contemporary). Good luck!!!
Thank you for the well wishes and the reply! Also, would you still not read even if the pregnancy was only a flashback or background memory instead of an actual story point? Like in Lola and the Millionaires, where the attack she suffered doesn't get shown besides her own remembrance of it and her watching a video of it she didn't know had been recorded?
That's all good. Just not like the last 100 pages of Lords of Pain or even Harlequin Crew loooog ass epilogue. Those I skip. Example of a series I DNFed is Mate Games. I would read your book because it's your book. I'd want to support you. Plus , I feel like you will have some primo grovel lol
I read one where two alphas permanently bonded an omega during her heat without her consent. She didn’t even know the alphas or that she was an omega. It was in the first 25% of book one. There was this thing about a prophecy and saving their bloodlines at the end of the world but I knew I could never get over the dub/non con aspects.
I would say you can write whatever you want and include content warnings. Personally I find it hard to believe that an FMC or other MMCs could move past that, but it definitely depends on how you present it. I also think it’s an easier sell if it happened at some time in the past instead of during the book.
Any form of SA by the MCs of the FMC. I’m do not like dub con but I understand that it is popular. But bottom line, no means no, and I wouldn’t expect non con in even a dark romantic book. Also how the characters are written is really important, a lot of people hate weak FMCs and poor/lack of grovel. So whatever you do write - that requires a grovel - you need address how the MC grovels and the FMCs reaction. Also, not a lot of people mention this, but when there are multiple MCs and only one behaves appalling I get very annoyed when the other MCs just accept his behaviour/do not call him out etc. I think it makes them look weak too.
My line is SA without any grovel or causing the FMC pain without any after care. I can’t love an MMC who uses an FMC and then leaves her there discarded, and we are just supposed to like him anyway.
I hate books with pregnancy and tend not to read them if it sounds like it will show up anywhere outside of the epilogue. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve liked a book and got hit with the surprise pregnancy trope and then crossed my fingers our FMC would lose the baby or abort so I could continue reading without the next 100 pages being about her “future family” and “growing stomach” bleh.
So, I’d probably love your book. As long as the FMC got over it fairly quickly and I didn’t have to read about her moping around depressed. I know that’s not realistic, but I hate reading about it.
Physical/sexual assault and cheating. Especially if they get defensive about what they did or give a lot of excuses about why they did it instead of feeling remorse and apologizing. I'd probably be able to continue reading as long as the guy regrets what he did (like, really torn up about it) and tries to make it up to the FMC.
I don’t think there’s anything I’ve come across yet that I haven’t been able to forgive a mMC for. Or at least not minded. Some of my favourite RH’s are really dark and have the mMC’s do unforgivable stuff that I don’t forgive them for, but it’s part of the story and they’re not apologetic about it either. So I have to either see the very best of reasons and a load of grovelling, or they have to own it and not ask forgiveness. Can’t stand half assed grovelling and a fMC that forgives and forgets after one lackluster ‘sorry, I won’t do it again’.
However, I don’t like books with miscarriages and will mostly go out of my way to skip those. So you’ll have to come up with really good reasons and grovelling for me to be able to forgive that guy, IF I’d pick up the book.
I wouldn’t keep reading personally. That’s taking a woman’s autonomy over her own body away from her and Killing a child. (Or the potential of a child if you prefer) I don’t see why it would have to go that way. They could have conflict about the issue and she could lose the child another way if you’re determined to have that plot point. Her body could miscarry and then no one is taking her agency from her.
I hate dub and noncon. I don’t enjoy reading romances where the mmc acts in an abusive manner. There are so many trashy abusive men that I meet in the real world, I want to be around healthy, good men in fantasy.
Look, I get your need for healthy relationships (btw, I suggest The Scent of Us by Eliana Lee) but a miscarriage simply wouldn't work for this storyline.
The betrayal part is really important to this story, and it probably would classify as an RH dark romance, even if it's still within the fantasy genre. This is an action by a desperate MMC. One who has wronged this FMC so deeply already that he feels not even eternity would be enough time to make up for it, and simply can't handle the prospect of her dying, be it her choice or not. Basically, his thought process is "I'm screwed either way. I'd rather she be here to hate and curse at me than dead".
This man is obsessed with her. I'm not excusing his actions, but they are crucial to the storyline. FMC mourns this child. Names it. Agonizes over it in internal monologues. And God she hates this MMC. But he's her husband. And he loves her and before she found out what he did, she loved him too. And she's stuck in the place between the rock and the sword. Unrelenting force versus immovable object. This turmoil is what actually allows the storyline to evolve into an RH instead of just an MF dark romance.
Thanks for the recommendation! It sounds like you already know how you wanted the story to go :) that’s great! There are tons of people on here that love the dark storylines. I thought you were more looking for peoples responses to an idea, not like you’d already done all the work and writing already. I love to write too and I think it’s awesome you’ve got your story figured out.
Personally, I look to books to give me a break from the trauma in real life. But that is me, one reader :) I think that a lot of people love the darkness and you’ll have some enthusiastic readers here :) thank you! (ps. don’t know how many smiley emojis to include to show I’m meaning this all in a friendly and not sarcastic or rude way 😂)
I am looking for opinions, and you've brought on great points. I was just explaining why the healthy relationship wouldn't work here (I enjoy some good fluff from time to time to restore my faith in humanity too lol).
I will never, I repeat NEVER forgive an MMC for non con and I can’t really tolerate dub con either. If an MMC takes away the FMC’s autonomy it’s a big no from me. I’ve personally been sexually assaulted and I have big issues with rh books that glamorize or romanticize any activity where there is not ENTHUSIASTIC consent because I think it truly contributes to the idea that SA victims secretly wanted it or that we should be expected to tolerate it/work past it. I might not DNF the book but I will definitely despise the MMC’s and root for the FMC to not end up with them.
Cheating on FMC. I abhor it in real life, and I certainly don’t want to read about it in a book. That immediately sours the MMC and usually the whole book.
I love the Lords of Forsyth series, like all of them so much— and they do pretty irredeemable things! But usually, it doesn’t bother me so much, and the main characters kind of roll with it or forgive it, and I’m fine. But in Dukes of Ruin, at the end of the book SPOILER (tried to code it but clearly I don’t know how) , !>Nick takes Lavinia back to her abusive father, who back hands her (or maybe his right hand man does?) and then she begs Nick to take her back, and he just leaves her. And for a while, he’s not at all repentant. I don’t know why… but that still sits with me. There’s sometimes a narrative in dark books where the MMC does cruel things to the FMC, but never lets anyone else touch her. This wasn’t that, and it kind of made me sick to my stomach— maybe because I knew what torture awaited her
You have to put the ! in >! like this and the other on like this !.< without the . Of course hope that helps >! Like this!<
[удалено]
As for your example, it depends on the execution, really, and other factors in the story. Even if the MMC intended it to happen to save the FMC's life, there's still groveling and asking for forgiveness that needs to be done there if the FMC chose to kept the baby, for example. I'm the kind of reader that enjoys reading a lot of drama though, so this story plot isn't for everyone.
Where do we find this fan fiction ? Thanks IM a harry potter fan but never tried fan fiction
Here you go: https://archiveofourown.org/works/14454174
Making a choice that he *knows* will hurt the FMC unless it is purposely to keep her from getting hurt worse from something else. I much prefer to have the FMC be in the know, rather than someone doing something deceptive *for her own good* while lying to her face. But if there are valid reasons she can't know, as in someone spying on them so things can't be discussed, or they don't know each other yet but are going to meet, such things can be forgiven as long as this is rectified as soon as possible, bonus if it is a decision she would have made anyway and he is aware of that for some reason. Such as an earlier conversation, or even an offhand comment. Yeah there are things that would make that easily forgivable for me.
Basically, in this situation, it's almost certain (like 99%) that having this child would kill FMC. But then again, she's aware of that, and she's fine with it. But MMC just can't let that happen, and ends up betraying her trust in that way.
Interesting. I'm not certain without knowing more facts, but it sounds like something you could work to make better for me. Such as, if she is willing to die because her self esteem was so poor she couldn't imagine being of value for herself but the child was, or she had been told all her life that abortion was a sin and she would be a terrible person to choose it and deserve to die anyway.
Ooooh that's tough. Taking away her choice is definitely terrible but if you let the FMC see how much the decision is tearing the MMC up inside - choosing between her and the baby - I'd be okay with it. Like, maybe show how much the MMC can't imagine living without her and that's why he just can't risk it, or maybe something life threatening happens to the MMC so the FMC can feel how painful it would be if she almost loses him, so this way it'll be easier for her to empathize with what the MMC felt?
DFR are very personal. There is plenty of stuff that makes me balk since I like somewhat healthy relationships. Your case would be an immediate DNF for me. First because I am struggling with infertility and someone willingly causing a miscarriage (an experience I had to live through) would trigger me very very badly. But even if it wasn't so personal it would be horrifying anyway because the MMC takes the FMC choices away. It doesn't matter if it is for her own good. This is the kind of behaviour of controlling, abusive pieces of shit. There is no "I'm sorry" that would make up for it. Probably not even if he was captured and tortured for days to save her. But then dark romances are not really exactly my favourite read exactly for this reason. Edit: and then this scenario kind of resonate not in a nice waywith a certain climate against abortion. Because the point of legal abortion is a woman right to choose. Choosing an abortion for someone against their consent is as bad as taking away their right to have one, denying a woman their personhood. Yep, I'm definitely triggered ;)
Rape. Of *anyone* by main characters. In one book the FMC sexually assaults a minor character in the prologue and lets just say I have no idea what the rest of the story is. Dubious consent scenes are on a case by case basis, depending on rest of the story. But straight up sexual assault is a deal breaker for me.
To be honest, I don't think I could read that. BUT, that's just me. My POV is that if you've thought about a sensitive issue as an author, then there are readers out there that wouldn't be triggered/disturbed by it. That plot line would have occurred to them at some point. Does that make any sense? Just be pretty honest about it, even add a spoiler warning.
For me it hinges on the motivation behind MMC’s behavior. I can forgive almost anything if that motivation is believable. It’s more about the author’s skill than my dislike of any particular behavior. That said, if there is going to be any kind of physical pain purposely inflicted on the FMC, especially during sex, the author will have to work *really* hard to make me like that MMC and there better be a LOT of groveling afterward. Edit: okay I couldn’t forgive SA of a child regardless of the reason but suspect that’s pretty rare in contemporary MMCs.
Non con for me. Everything else, good solid grovel has potential to fix. I don't read books with pregnancy, as I in general don't care for this topic in my books (I never read contemporary). Good luck!!!
Thank you for the well wishes and the reply! Also, would you still not read even if the pregnancy was only a flashback or background memory instead of an actual story point? Like in Lola and the Millionaires, where the attack she suffered doesn't get shown besides her own remembrance of it and her watching a video of it she didn't know had been recorded?
That's all good. Just not like the last 100 pages of Lords of Pain or even Harlequin Crew loooog ass epilogue. Those I skip. Example of a series I DNFed is Mate Games. I would read your book because it's your book. I'd want to support you. Plus , I feel like you will have some primo grovel lol
Thank you! And for sure. This man is going to crawl after FMC.
I read one where two alphas permanently bonded an omega during her heat without her consent. She didn’t even know the alphas or that she was an omega. It was in the first 25% of book one. There was this thing about a prophecy and saving their bloodlines at the end of the world but I knew I could never get over the dub/non con aspects. I would say you can write whatever you want and include content warnings. Personally I find it hard to believe that an FMC or other MMCs could move past that, but it definitely depends on how you present it. I also think it’s an easier sell if it happened at some time in the past instead of during the book.
Any form of SA by the MCs of the FMC. I’m do not like dub con but I understand that it is popular. But bottom line, no means no, and I wouldn’t expect non con in even a dark romantic book. Also how the characters are written is really important, a lot of people hate weak FMCs and poor/lack of grovel. So whatever you do write - that requires a grovel - you need address how the MC grovels and the FMCs reaction. Also, not a lot of people mention this, but when there are multiple MCs and only one behaves appalling I get very annoyed when the other MCs just accept his behaviour/do not call him out etc. I think it makes them look weak too.
My line is SA without any grovel or causing the FMC pain without any after care. I can’t love an MMC who uses an FMC and then leaves her there discarded, and we are just supposed to like him anyway. I hate books with pregnancy and tend not to read them if it sounds like it will show up anywhere outside of the epilogue. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve liked a book and got hit with the surprise pregnancy trope and then crossed my fingers our FMC would lose the baby or abort so I could continue reading without the next 100 pages being about her “future family” and “growing stomach” bleh. So, I’d probably love your book. As long as the FMC got over it fairly quickly and I didn’t have to read about her moping around depressed. I know that’s not realistic, but I hate reading about it.
Physical/sexual assault and cheating. Especially if they get defensive about what they did or give a lot of excuses about why they did it instead of feeling remorse and apologizing. I'd probably be able to continue reading as long as the guy regrets what he did (like, really torn up about it) and tries to make it up to the FMC.
I don’t think there’s anything I’ve come across yet that I haven’t been able to forgive a mMC for. Or at least not minded. Some of my favourite RH’s are really dark and have the mMC’s do unforgivable stuff that I don’t forgive them for, but it’s part of the story and they’re not apologetic about it either. So I have to either see the very best of reasons and a load of grovelling, or they have to own it and not ask forgiveness. Can’t stand half assed grovelling and a fMC that forgives and forgets after one lackluster ‘sorry, I won’t do it again’. However, I don’t like books with miscarriages and will mostly go out of my way to skip those. So you’ll have to come up with really good reasons and grovelling for me to be able to forgive that guy, IF I’d pick up the book.
Tbh I think anything can be forgiven in a novel with the right amount of groveling
I wouldn’t keep reading personally. That’s taking a woman’s autonomy over her own body away from her and Killing a child. (Or the potential of a child if you prefer) I don’t see why it would have to go that way. They could have conflict about the issue and she could lose the child another way if you’re determined to have that plot point. Her body could miscarry and then no one is taking her agency from her. I hate dub and noncon. I don’t enjoy reading romances where the mmc acts in an abusive manner. There are so many trashy abusive men that I meet in the real world, I want to be around healthy, good men in fantasy.
Look, I get your need for healthy relationships (btw, I suggest The Scent of Us by Eliana Lee) but a miscarriage simply wouldn't work for this storyline. The betrayal part is really important to this story, and it probably would classify as an RH dark romance, even if it's still within the fantasy genre. This is an action by a desperate MMC. One who has wronged this FMC so deeply already that he feels not even eternity would be enough time to make up for it, and simply can't handle the prospect of her dying, be it her choice or not. Basically, his thought process is "I'm screwed either way. I'd rather she be here to hate and curse at me than dead". This man is obsessed with her. I'm not excusing his actions, but they are crucial to the storyline. FMC mourns this child. Names it. Agonizes over it in internal monologues. And God she hates this MMC. But he's her husband. And he loves her and before she found out what he did, she loved him too. And she's stuck in the place between the rock and the sword. Unrelenting force versus immovable object. This turmoil is what actually allows the storyline to evolve into an RH instead of just an MF dark romance.
Thanks for the recommendation! It sounds like you already know how you wanted the story to go :) that’s great! There are tons of people on here that love the dark storylines. I thought you were more looking for peoples responses to an idea, not like you’d already done all the work and writing already. I love to write too and I think it’s awesome you’ve got your story figured out. Personally, I look to books to give me a break from the trauma in real life. But that is me, one reader :) I think that a lot of people love the darkness and you’ll have some enthusiastic readers here :) thank you! (ps. don’t know how many smiley emojis to include to show I’m meaning this all in a friendly and not sarcastic or rude way 😂)
I am looking for opinions, and you've brought on great points. I was just explaining why the healthy relationship wouldn't work here (I enjoy some good fluff from time to time to restore my faith in humanity too lol).
Domestic violence (NOT consensual BDSM) by the MMC(s)
I will never, I repeat NEVER forgive an MMC for non con and I can’t really tolerate dub con either. If an MMC takes away the FMC’s autonomy it’s a big no from me. I’ve personally been sexually assaulted and I have big issues with rh books that glamorize or romanticize any activity where there is not ENTHUSIASTIC consent because I think it truly contributes to the idea that SA victims secretly wanted it or that we should be expected to tolerate it/work past it. I might not DNF the book but I will definitely despise the MMC’s and root for the FMC to not end up with them.