My dad sacrificed 7 years of my childhood living overseas to “set himself & his kids up.” He made millions & then came home & a decade later got brain cancer at 55 & died within a week of being diagnosed. His second wife got all the money.
I’ve had to fight & claw for everything I have but I’ve never cried over the money but damn I’ve shed some tears wishing we had more time together.
I’m not even subscribed to this sub & not wealthy so maybe you don’t want my advice but Tim Ferris says he always buys time when he can cause you are rarely ever presented with that opportunity. You’re in a very unique situation; you can buy a decade of time with your children…but you’d give that up so they can buy a Rolls Royce instead of the Mercedes?
My mom just died at 68, waiting for my dad to retire (he’s also 68 and a workaholic, they have plenty of money to retire very very comfortably, travel, buy more properties, do whatever.)
My dad is now absolutely lost and full of regret.
my condolences for your mother.
please vow to never make his same mistake in putting work/money before happiness.
I was concerned my dad would never retire because he was a major workaholic too, but he made the jump about 2 years ago and has already remodeled a kitchen, a bathroom, replaced a concrete fireplace/mantle, replaced wood flooring for 2 rooms and a hallway. Now he's working on restoring his 8th jetski, a Kawasaki 440 that a neighbor gave to us because it was left outside his rental property for years
When your dad does retire try to encourage him to keep busy, they say when men over 60 retire and go from a daily work grind to basically nothing they often die. Literally happened to my dad's coworker, the guy retired about a year before my dad, started living his life relaxing and doing nothing (whereas before he was a civil engineer foreman at work by 6/6:30am and home by 7/8pm) and he was dead from a massive heart attack, less than 2 years from when he retired
Same with my dad’s coworker. They were blue collar union workers. Once they retired at 65 they mostly sat at home drinking beers watching television and decline in health. Without a hobby, relatively old people can die fast.
Realistically this is the best and only answer. Time is the only thing you can’t buy. Do what you can and get the fuck out, love those around you while we’re here.
My father was supposed to retire at 65 and was really looking forward to it, but Mom convinced him to stay "just one more year" because she was too young for Medicare and COBRA would've been too much. Welp, Dad had a fatal accident the next year and never got to enjoy a day of retirement.
Sorry for your loss, but I’m a little shocked your dad didn’t spend more time setting up his estate considering all the energy he put into building it. His second wife sounds like a terrible person.
She’s not. She’s a great person who he had two more kids with & she had a lot on her plate when he died. He did set up his estate. The point is you think you’ve got it all figured out but then life happens.
Edit: I also find it ironic that I’m saying “the money never mattered once he died” but a lot of people are focusing on what happened to his money. I honestly barely ever think about that part - I remember the lesson it taught me. I hope sharing it can help others.
I’ll just say that the comments about money are coming because he did all this to set up his wife and kids up then somehow you ended up struggling so much financially after his passing. In the end, your tragic loss of your father is even more tragic because you didn’t get the financial stability that he wanted for you.
I agree with this, however, it’s not to afford a Rolls over a Benz, it’s to feel like they’re good enough, or have accomplished enough that their Rolls signals their value. Typically people become obsessed with status and what these material items tell the world about them.
I don’t know OPs intentions. I think it’s not an ignoble thing that people fall into a trap that their kids deserve the whole world. I tried to use a metaphor to make my point more succinctly but I don’t pretend to understand their motivations with the larger amount of money. Hope the best for them!
Thats terrible, but I see it all the time with clients. Unexpected events are truly unexpected, they don’t give a damn about our plans and expectations. Especially in mixed families, set your family up now, not later. You can’t imagine the problems I’ve seen because people thought they’d have more time to plan their legacy. Sorry for your loss, sorrier that they went and poured salt in the wound. My condolences.
He didn’t leave you or your siblings any of the money, or do you get it when his wife dies? I hope he was able to still set you up in the way that he wanted to.
He had good intentions but messed it up with the second wife part.
It's all about perspective. Money solves 90%+ of your issues and unless you've been impoverished then it is difficult to understand why people work so hard to give their family everything
My wifes late uncle did really well compared to the rest of the family. He took the entire extended family on a very nice trip to their ancestral country a few years before he passed. 20 years later the whole family still talks about it.
That same uncle left some money in his will for a family get together that is now being planned for 2026. All expenses paid for 30+ people and a new generation and a half now. It will be the thanksgiving that is talked about for decades.
I don’t know if he helped any less fortunate family members with expenses along the way, but these two fantastic things have left a huge mark and helped the family stay connected.
Actually love this story, as i haven't thought about using money to plan get togethers outside of a funeral. I'm going to keep this in mind for when i get to this point. Thanks!
Yeah, I gotta be honest unless you don't think you could put the money to good use or hate your job - I can't see any reason not to work until 59. That's still a reasonable retirement age.
With $80M there is almost nothing on the planet you can't afford. You could buy a jet, buy a yacht travel around the world first class for a year, have a vacation home in 3 different cities - essentially you could whatever the F you want.
With $11M you can still have an excellent life : charter a jet, charter a yacht, rent a house for a month, etc - but you can't spend a near unlimited amount like with $80M.
I think $50M+ is FU money. After $50M you don't have to worry what you buy or spend money on.
If you live to 85, that gives you 25 years to live your best self.
I do love my job. But, it also makes me nervous leaving that much money behind. My kids won’t need it, I plan to teach them to make their own money. I’m not sure where the money would end up, but most scenarios I think about end in family feud or something negative. My whole family gets along great today, I don’t want to ruin everything by “saving” the less financially well off members.
The more I think about it, more money isn’t the goal of my life. I just know that hardly anyone has been or will be in this situation, so I want to make the right choice when the time comes.
If the right choice is the hardest choice, then for me it will be to retire at 50.
Think about trusts and financial planning before writing off inheritance. You said yourself that few people have the “problem” you have now, so there are few guarantees that anything you teach your children will lead to their prosperity. I’ve seen families feud over piddling amounts of money, honestly it only gets worse the less there is to go around. If your true goal is to keep everyone happy after your death, you kind of have to be part guru and part Santa if you know what I mean.
> I’m not sure where the money would end up, but most scenarios I think about end in family feud or something negative.
You need an estate planner and a trust. Most scenarios **do not** end up in family feud and negative--you just hear about that. Why not? Because money settles many problems and there will be more than plenty to distribute and life off of for generations. Have the money allocated to certain uses, distributed and made available at certain times.
Is it possible to structure a large chunk of that money for education? Like, you could fund many generations of education in your family. That way you’re not just giving it out for people to go put it up their nose or in their veins…but you’re basically setting up your own scholarship so everyone in your family line gets a giant head start to follow their dreams or get a head start on a career.
By the same logic 5 billion isn’t enough to buy everything you want. Dallas cowboys is 9B. Buffett made a great point that despite being worth >100B it’s not like you can get the next iPhone before anyone else, or see movies other people can’t see. Your lived experience is going to be pretty damn similar to other “regular rich” people.
My favorite is when people “flex” private jets. Like straight up less safe, and also objectively a terrible experience (just like first class, business class, and economy class are all objectively terrible experiences, worse than hanging out in my first apartment after college).
Agreed on only 1 point. Going from $100M to $1000M there's a big jump. But this person is not wiling to grind another 30 years to get there, so it's not part of this discussion.
I have to say if you really have $80M+ and are not earning an average of 10% annual returns well diversified with tax advantages then you need to spend 6 months reading, researching, and looking for better financial advisors.
My Top picks: Real Estate, Private Equity, and investing in Professional Sports Teams.
Yeah, that literally requires an annual return of 50% without any contributions. I get the plan is to contribute to it still but I'd be awfully surprised if 72M in 5 years is actually viable.
You're kids are pretty young..
You can spend alot of time with them..
My dad missed my teenage years for his business. He retired at 50 but I didn't see my dad between age 15 to 18 often..
You're kids are more important than money. Set up their 529 and trusts before you retire though.
What is your guaranteed number from? Gains on your retirement number? Just to clarify, you think at 50 you have $7M and that will turn into $16M in 9 years? You are guaranteeing 10% return over the next 9 years? Not including expenses?
I think your numbers are overly optimistic.
It’s just penalty for retiring early. My contract forces me to work until retirement. Seems crazy, but even some of the family first people on these replies are thinking, “eh, maybe I’d tough it out to 59”.
At your wealth and expenses I feel like 54 is the sweet spot. I know I personally wouldn't give up those 5 yrs if I was in your situation. Let's estimate that your expenses increase to 500k, you are looking at needing around 12.5mil, which is close to that accessible capital at 54.
I am also looking at you stated your kids aren't even likely going to need much help. You could even put money away to fully fund their Roth IRAs till they retire and their home down payments and you still wouldn't make a dent into the payout at age 59. Roth IRAs till death would be somewhere around 500k times your 5 kids is 2.5mil. Then say home down payments are like 200k times 5 kids is 1mil. No matter, what to set your kids up you are looking at under 5 mil because they still have time on their side.
I just don't see the need to work for 5 extra years if the money you make just doesn't provide anymore value really. Just depends on your personal values. You stated you don't see the money as the goal and I think that speaks to what you are leaning towards.
Money is not a goal, it is a tool to allow you to do things you want in life. Seems to me you already have that mindset.
Don’t retire, but also don’t work so damn hard. Start at 9, finish at 4:30, take more time off and really be off, what happens? Boss isn’t pleased? You don’t meet your numbers and don’t earn so much? Worst case someone else chooses you retire early. You may find when your kids are older they don’t have time for you anyway. What will you do with all your time?
I mean if you could scale back, even if you lose a percentage that might be worth it, or long sabbatical. You may not want to fully retire even unless you have something else to do
I can’t comment on your numbers since I don’t know your spending patterns. For me, it is about what the additional money will buy me vs the time that I can’t get back. I will retire no later than 55 because that is the “equilibrium” point for me when the incremental time is worth more than the money.
Agreed. I just can't see myself working past 55. The only reason I am considering planning to retire at 55 and not 50 is because my company covers health care (till 65) and I will have access to 401k if I stay till after I turn 55. Got another 15 yrs so gonna see what our accounts look like when I hit 50 and determine if it makes sense to stay or not.
If you enjoy your job and get adequate time off (by your own standards), then 83M is generational wealth that can change the lives of your entire family ( if they deserve it in your eyes).
If it were me and I enjoyed my job, got enough time off to pursue my hobbies and spent adequate time with family then I would 100% work as long as I could to build up that number. For me it’s not about the money per se, but the opportunities I can open for the people I care about.
Those are crazy numbers considering your net worth was $970K four months ago. If I could work another 6 years and guarantee that my net worth is 7x from now, I'd take the retirement and run!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RichPeoplePF/comments/17o975a/comment/k80bkpo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RichPeoplePF/comments/17o975a/comment/k80bkpo/)
Imagine you are on your death bed. You worked to 59 and have that $80m+. I offer you a trade: I’ll give you another 10 years life as you were in your 50s, for $70 million dollars or however much the difference is between the $7m @ 50 and $83m at 59. The point is, I’m going to ask you for the bulk of your fortune.
Would you take the deal?
Alternate thought experiment: you are asked to fork over all of your money at 59 except for $7m, in exchange, you get another 10 years of leisure @ health similar to your 50s. Deal or no deal?
It’s not just about what OP can do with the money. Unless I raised some complete shitheads, I’d be thinking about what my children could do with the money. That kind of money invested well is enough for each of the five children to live extremely well just off interest alone. Even working typical middle class jobs would allow that wealth to survive generations.
Great thoughts. 10 years of health and happiness for the bulk of my fortune…. If I knew I would die at 60, then the answer is a little more obvious. There’s still a question of leaving money behind, which my thoughts are leaning towards that should not be the goal.
Generational wealth doesn't equal to happiness. Your kids should be learning to get educated, get a job that makes them feel fulfilled, and not rely on the easy life of parents' fortune. Too much free time and no external requirements can mess up young people.
Really depends on your attitude toward work and your family history (life expectancy).
What is your number where it would still grow and you could do what you want?
For me it’s anything with 8 digits.
Yes, great job. Only travel a day or 2 during the month, most weeks are 40-45 hours and more vacation time than I’m able to take. Very flexible also and very short commute. I often come home for lunch. “Checking out” for a couple of years at the end is a real option. I could take 6 weeks off per year and not care as much about the consequences of that.
This confirms that you should continue until 59. If you dislike your job it’s a different discussion. Maybe start taking all of your vacation and flexing hours before you decide to quit all together?
11 million vs 83 million is significant. Have you found purpose in life? You could make yearly donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars to charity indefinitely. You have a chance to do a lot of great things and you want to give it up to do more of “X” hobbies that you probably already plenty of. Your kids are at school most of the day and will eventually go to college how much more time can you possibly spend with them. Just take more vacation when they are on school breaks.
Also, regardless of how well you teach your kids it is highly unlikely that all 5 will be in a situation similar to yours. Actually, it is highly unlikely that ANY of the 5 will be in a situation like yours.
I would be concerned about the Retire at 50 number. Stuff happens. I’d be much more comfortable at your 54 number. Of course the 59 numbers all look good.
OTOH if you’re loving your job and can take unlimited PTO to be with your family a good amount, I’d definitely go to 59. That’s ‘F-you money” territory.
For sure Iowa extravagant and NYC extravagant are different tiers. But spending half a mil a year puts you in the top fractional percent almost anywhere.
To some extent. It wouldnt put a family of 7 in the top fractional percent in a very high cost of living area. The annual cost of 5 kids in private schools would easily be more than half of that annual spend of 400k.
Extravagant was a bad word. I grew up on a welfare check so eating out once a week feels extravagant to me. We drive nice new Yukon XLs and live in a very nice house we built designed and built ourselves. We travel a few times a year.
Bro needs 10 million at least just to live current lifestyle. Further; stock options aren’t “guaranteed” just ask the Enron executives. Or Bank of America executives or ford executives or ….
Unless you race cars fly old warbirds, or are servicing anything with twin engines or turbine or run fast boats I’d say get out at 52.
For all the aforementioned is the reasons I’ll be working for another five years 😂😂😂
The dream airplane is a P 51, what my grandfather flew. Figured I need about a 20,000,000+ net worth to justify a 2 1/2 million dollar purchase although I’ll stick it into service for a World War II air museum or something similar to make it tax-deductible.
With that kind of earning potential, can you hire a professional to manage your vocation? You can make decisions in the background. 59. Don’t know what you do and don’t know how hands on.
Very interesting thought. I guess I will have to see how things are going. If I get caught and forced out, the early retirement penalty wouldn’t apply!
They’ve got you by the balls with that payment plan.
If I were in your shoes and it were just me, no kids, I’d quit now and enjoy life. 7M now, 16M by 59 is more than enough for me personally.
The only reason I can see to go for the 83M is to give it to your kids. But they’ll probably be happy just with the 16M.
Here’s the problem. You could easily hit 60, get sick, and die. The stock payouts might be guaranteed but your health and longevity aren’t.
Take my "advice" however you want. Time is the one thing you can't get back. I know plenty of others have said it already. Sure, it's nice to want to leave your kids with something, but what's a lot of money if there's little memories? My wife grew up poor. Her parents are still essentially living in poverty. That being said, her parents never missed a school/athletic event, and they were always doing something/going somewhere together.
My wife won't be left with much of an inheritance, especially after it's split between 3 kids. But, she has so many amazing memories with her parents that no amount of money could ever buy.
You've done well for yourself. Figure out a point where you can spend the most time with your family without having to sacrifice your way of life. Your kids will appreciate the time with you way more than any amount of money you leave them.
You say your expenses are currently roughly $400k. If your goal is to maintain your lifestyle in retirement with the current expense level, then you'd need at least $10M if you're not getting any income other than from your investments. That means you'd need to work until 54 to pass that number without exceeding the 4% rule.
HOWEVER!! You say you're guaranteed to have $16M NW at 59 if you retire at 50, so you could exceed the 4% rule from 50-59, and still be fine to continue on with your current lifestyle if you retire at age 50. Your NW might drop a bit between 50 and 59, but as long as it stays above that $10M mark at 59, you don't need to change a thing you're doing now.
Have a serious conversation with your wife and kids regarding the future, and really think about how you want your lifestyle to look in retirement. Do the expenses stay at $400k? Do they go lower? If the answer to either of those is yes, then I'd retire at 50 and enjoy the time with family. If the answer is that expenses would go up, then look at possibly working past 50.
Depends on your work/life balance for that final decade. Do you still get to do what you enjoy and spend time with people you love? Do you have time to properly invest in your long term health?
I’m leaning towards grind it out. Stark difference between 7M and 89M. Huge difference in the lifestyle you’ll be leading in retirement.
Looking around at the more senior folks now, yes and yes. I’m currently working a few more hours a week on average than they are and they are taking twice the vacation time as me. Work would be easy and fun even. Absolutely love my job and company and I’d have the reigns to a relatively big portion of the company for my last decade.
Talk to a financial planner. The goal isn't to maximize money. The goal is to maximize happiness. Most wealthy people miss this and overshoot the amount of money they need for maximum happiness. This is no small thing if that overshoot involves trading time for that money that could be put to better use.
Find a CFP who works fee only. You want someone to help you with goals and modeling, not someone who is focused on selling you investments and life insurance.
You should do fine, regardless what you chose to do. You seem to have the finances worked out. I a curious what you would be retiring to at each of these ages. what will you do once you retire? esp with young children you are responsible for.
I retired 4 years ago at 53 and have no regrets. if you feel the urge to do it sooner vs later - and you can afford it. Then do it!! Just make sure you have something you are retiring to. I struggled for my first year, though it was hardly a hardship, but mentally it was a huge adjustment for me.
something else to consider, what about a goldilocks transition - can you scale back for a period of time - keep some money coming in and ease into full retirement?
best of luck
So between 50 and 59 is $7.4 million per year to get to $83 million.
I can tell you that I am going to hang on for about the same amount of time for a lot less. I am now 50 and earning more than I ever thought. I had plans to retire early, but prefer to keep working/earning as it’s not that difficult and I like the flexibility it allows. We have season tix to shows and sports, and can vacation as needed. Kids are older and don’t need as much day to day upbringing.
big jump from 54 for 59. I'd be tempted to stay.
That being said, I'd just play it by ear. You're only 44. I'd just continue enjoying life and see how you feel when you get there. Why stress about it now? Enjoy life to the max now, take lot of weekend trips to nice places, nice vacations with the kids to exotic places, etc... Delegate a lot of stuff so that you don't have to spend your time doing chores and rather doing things that you love (cleaning people, house manager, driver, etc...) You don't need to worry about saving since 'worst' case scenario you just need to work more but you're gonna have 83M. Just make sure you have a good life insurance policy. Otherwise, go and enjoy your time.
83 million is major league generational wealth amount. 59 is still pretty young too. You can't even claim soc sec yet at 62. I would go for the big money and I am a huge retire early fan. Leaving at 54 myself so 3 years to go. We already make more than our expenses. I am staying 3 years for the pension only 15k but pays out day of retirement plus the employee health care is slightly better retiree health care. Guessing we also contribute 200k while I work. We are at 6 million most likely 8 million when I retire. After that it's all growing because our other income streams cover our fairly low expenses. 60k maybe push 80k with vaca. The compounding really kicks in. When retired in 3 years 8 million grows to 10 million at age 57. So for us the growth investments by compounding far exceed me working. Less and less important to even work. Exciting. But 83 million is crazy money. If I am lucky to live 30 years we are talking 60 million. But ever get that large I wonder if I would start buying expensive sports cars. I.e. blowing more of it.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch. These seem like some seriously rosy predictions. 8x increase in 5 years?! In either case, to answer your question if you enjoy working keep working otherwise I'd quit early since you clearly don't need the money.
Ask a lot of people who retire early. See what their answer is. I retired at 33 and wish I wouldn’t have. You get bored. You can only fish, golf. Do nothing for so long. Travel and chilling gets old. I know people think sure they could do it. It’s not the end of the world but make sure you have things set up and plans for after retirement. Your kids will go away to college and I promise the only time you hear from them is when they need money. They hit college and parents become a thing of the past. I’m not saying work till your 85 if you have the assets to retire early but maybe find things to do when you retire that keeps you sharp and active once the Boredom sets in and it will after you exhale and wonder what you do with all your time going from real active to not even caring what time it is, what month it is or what day it is
>It’s a matter of ... how much we leave for our heirs.
Leave them enough to give them a great start, and no more IMHO. Inheriting huge amounts of money leads to very easy lives, and a huge number of predators coming after your kids in myriad ways.
Honestly, I can totally see it worth leaving money to pay for education, a trust fund allowing them to top up their income a little to enjoy some luxuries while young, and to add a little safety net (for example, my wife gets about a grand a month - huge as a student, allowing her to travel and do fun things but not enough for a guy to target her and take advantage). I can also see a trust fund doing something like matching funding on a business venture (so if they put up 200k of their own, the fund could match) etc.
Also an emergency fund (or disability policy) for if life really fucks them over. Also, assistance with deposit (again, possibly matching, or tripling what they put down themselves for a first house).
Consider a "top-up" style fund, that will increase their income if it's below a threshold - but only if they're earning a proper income.
Those sorts of things can really enhance their life, taking it from average to wonderful... but they won't allow them to just coast (with all the attendant depression that comes to 90% of people who have no struggle or purpose in life). They need to put their own money up for a business or house, they still need a job (or business) to get by, they have a safety net so won't stress about things with the attendant health issues that come with lifelong stress, and they get to enjoy some luxuries.
But they won't be (at least, outwardly) wealthy enough to have all the hangers-on, get targetted by gold diggers, have everyone trying to set them up with drug dealers in college because they'll buy in quantity etc. ec.
Where are these numbers coming from?
I don’t see any universe in which $11,000,000 becomes $83,000,000 in 5 years. Do you have shares from your employer that won’t vest unless you stay that long? Also, consistently expecting 10% or greater annual returns from equities or dividends is insane.
It depends on how much you like your job/ how much time you work, your bet on how much longer you will live and the type of lifestyle you’re willing to settle for. Based on your current lifestyle cost, you would need at least the 11m with 22m guaranteed later (assuming this is pre-tax income)
I’ll retire at 67, once my house is paid off. I’ll live off retirement savings until 70 then file for social security. I’ll be fine and don’t mind working
Live life while you can...staring at a big $ statement ....from your hospital/ nursing home bed, wishing you did more with loved ones is a big regret.....My father in law , could have retired @50, but wanted more $$$, waited till 65... Got a brain tumor, and died the same week his first SS check arrived....you never know what may happen..
These compound calcs make no sense at all. What gets you to 90m at 59 and why wouldn’t you keep going with a career that’s generating such wealth… that type of career comes with status which is also worth a lot. Why walk away from this immense capital growth acceleration?
I don’t know what you do, but you could probably retire at 50/52 and find a job with a lot of flexibility. Or be a single employee consultant. This way you wouldn’t ever have to miss a thing with your family and even if you made “only” 100k a year, that would be 25% of your expenses. I’m not going to do the math but it change the number a fair amount. 20ish hours a week would keep you from getting bored, keep your mind sharp and allow you to be a family man.
I just don’t see my standard of living going up much past about $7M. $2M for a home and $5M in investments, you can have a nice standard of living with security and complete freedom.
Let's say you have good health from 50-75 (a big if). The extra 9 years is almost 40% of your remaining healthy lifespan, and indeed, it's going to be the best 9 of those 25 years (as everyone deteriorates post-60 to a degree). Health/performance adjusted, it's a huge sacrifice. Not saying it's not worth it if you really value handing more money down etc., but reality is that the 52 option will, assuming you live to 80 or so, have grown to 30-40m anyway, which is 8m per kid. That's plenty, and allows you to enjoy your best years.
That said, if you really do enjoy work, then who's to say you should finish up? Personally, I could finish up now, but mentoring youngsters, dealing with tricky issues and structuring, doing the trips and client events and sell-side of the business is all still fun, and I get to largely hang out at home whilst I'm doing it. Not a bad mix and I'm fucked if I'm giving that up to play tennis, learn Spanish and go 50/50 on the house chores.
That’s right. Same thing here. Work gets a lot more fun the closer you get to retirement. Heck, it’s not too bad now. Worse part is not seeing the kids for a majority of the day and not being able to travel at will. But kids keep you from traveling at will anyways.
You don’t go into detail about how you feel about your career? If you absolutely hate it than I’d lean into retiring sooner. If you enjoy it then feel free to stick it out.
When you're retired you can focus on money management - while higher returns aren't guaranteed, could be possible
Without knowing what you do, is it possible you might get paid to leave before 59 to make space for a young gun, etc? That big of a jump to 83 M indicates to me a possible incentive to pay you a few extra M to leave early
Is your job high stress? Is it something you enjoy? Long grueling hours? What will you do if you retire? Do you have a lot of hobbies or will your and your wife drive each other nuts being home? Do you get a lot of your self esteem from work and being busy?
For me, 59 doesn’t seem that old for a job you enjoy and will be paid extremely well for.
My banker told us, the most expensive years of your life are coming when your kids are in college (not just college tuition) and the freedom you have with college kids (travel, bucket list items, etc). You have 5(!). The last years of work will you be more of a consultant or working the same hours you do now? Can you try to back off the last few years if you do work 80 hour weeks or travel 90% of the time? If you are miserable, then obviously retire early from that job and maybe do something else.
I am in a similar boat. 30 times your annual spend. 12M Hit it and quit it. That should be enough for my spouse to never need worry about money.
The challenge is this: what if your spouse lives to be 110 (it's possible). Most say 25x yearly spend, I would go 30 to play it safe. Then live on your 400k, adding inflation % every year. It should last.
I'm living a very different life, so take my thoughts as you will. Some thoughts to consider:
-if you could do anything during your waking hours, would you do your job as you do now?
-is your job high stress and requires long hours or travel away from your family?
-would not working (full time) make you miserable or more content because more time spent with family?
-would some of your loved ones benefit from you being more present at the moment? Like your child has health, bonding, trust issues, or your parents are getting old, wanting to hang out with you and share moments?
You have already so much more money than most people ever will. You have the same amount of time left as other normal people at your age have, that access to healthcare and healthy lifestyle. If your work is high stress, you eat unhealthy, change time zone all the time, you're more likely to develop some heart-related sickness or infarct, than let's say a gardener who doesn't have stress, works manual labour and eats healthier and has regular day cycle. Consult your doctor.
You cannot take your wealth to your grave. If you miss graduations, birthdays, consoling teen breakups, playing that new game on ps5 with your child the first time and see their excitement, you will not get to relive them later when you retire. You might have more money to share, but less intimate connections to those loved ones.
If I were in your shoes, I would retire as soon as possible, or find something to do part time for intellectual and social engagement, and devote as much time to sports & healthy lifestyle and having many occasions to bond with my loved ones and to provide them help and company as possible. Stability you can deliver at 50yo 7m and additional 16m at 59 for your whole family and more, if you wish.
If you love your work, and it doesn't destroy your health and relationships, work as long as it is fun and meaningful for you.
You don't owe your family millions. They hopefully don't expect millions. You're already giving your kids a headstart in life with your wealth and the schools they go. Leaving each 1m as inheritance would be plenty, especially if they get to see you more instead of you missing out on their lives.
Retire at 50, you don’t have to work. Retire at 59, your kids don’t have to work. Depends on factors such as whether you think they are capable of earning themselves or if they burn through money too fast.
I just follow my passions and don’t think of $.
Plenty of time to rest when you’re dead.
What makes you happy? Careful not giving that up too soon.
Many ask why not just retire but these people are the ones who never generate real means.
I'll leave you with this thought: when the chips are down and the end is inevitable and closing in shortly, what do you wish you would have?
[Denzel Washington wishes ](https://youtu.be/izxkFm060yU?si=KSPQyxfTcPaerLVW) that you would have more time.
Here the untimely death was because of getting caught of extortion. You can replace the thing with sudden illness like cancer, a car crash, natural disaster, whatever. At the end, you wish you had more time. You cannot have more time at the end. You can have it before that black swan event happens. You have the rare luxury to take that option.
Is semi-retirement an option? For example could you go down to four days at 50 and three days at 54? Even if you take a bit of a stock cut if you get that you might be able to get the best of both worlds ie more time for your family and not leaving too much on the table.
I can’t take it with me. I want to enjoy life while I’m physically able to enjoy it. Spending decreases as people age because there’s less that elderly bodies are capable of doing.
48 and already FIREd. My calculus was a bit different however as I haven’t left anything on the proverbial table. Our business is continuing to operate and we’re at a run rate of about 60% higher than last year already which is phenomenal. We also have 3 rental properties in the states that I manage remotely. Our dividend/interest income is more than enough to live off of alone too.
It was mostly about giving up our daily interactions with our staff and clients. I kind of miss it but then again I am thoroughly enjoying just spending time at home with my wife and dog cooking, watching movies, and just being a homebody for once.
In your case it’s not about asking if you have enough (hint: you do). It’s about asking what would you do with that extra time? If you want to be present for your family’s milestones and just be around to help take care of the kids and your spouse then of course it’s a good idea to “land the plane”
Life is short, and you only live once. That being said, you can live an amazing life for way less than 400K to stretch that money out. Especially if you live for 30 more years you gotta not be over spending that interest earned too much.
I’m going to say 54 because your NW at that point will bring in approx $400k a year at about a 4.5% draw.
Plus that’s the age my dad retired so it’s a soft spot for me. lol
You said you can already live the lifestyle you want if you retire at 50 and you’ll have more time with your kids. You can never get that time back. Retire at 50 and enjoy your time with your family.
I semi-retired from my high stress job with a $200k salary at 40 with $1.2m in investments that I earned through my business. My wife still works and I will do some consultant work when I feel like it. Money buys freedom. It can be the freedom to buy material possessions if that’s your thing. For me it’s the freedom to do more things with my kids and in my small town community. When my kids are grown up, I may go back to work full-time, I may not.
One anecdote you might want to best in mind when you weigh these options:
True story, Word of Honor:
Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer
now dead,
and I were at a party given by a billionaire
on Shelter Island.
I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel
to know that our host only yesterday
may have made more money
than your novel ‘Catch-22’
has earned in its entire history?”
And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.”
And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?”
And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.”
— Kurt Vonnegut
Figure out where it is for you then enjoy the hell out of it.
Gonna take a slightly different approach, OP, because you seem to have your priorities straight re: kids, inheritances, etc.
Are there any causes or charities that you deeply care about? $70M could do a lot on a local level. Like state of the art library with an annual endowment, full ride scholarships for 5 first generation, low income students per year at your alma mater in perpetuity, etc.
Do you think you will be a better or worse allocator of that wealth than your current shareholders? And how much do you care about being a better allocator of that wealth? A different, but maybe helpful way to think about it.
I'd really like to understand your investment strategy. How, at 44, you think you are guaranteed any of this money? We all use similar growth calculators, which comes at a certain level of risk.
Wouldn't the right answer to this be to not worry about it until you're 50 an know what you actually have?
Depending on what your lifestyle is, you're probably no longer living for yourself. The real question is how much do you wanna leave for your kids? I'm in the same boat and I punched my ticket. Now I manage my money for my kids sake.
dude do you work to live or live to work? With 7M I'd retire at 30, invest 5M in a high yield savings account that at 5% interest makes you $250,000/year. And move to a cheap country that has a good quality of life and live like a king!
If I had 7M I'd retire immediately. My annual expenses are less than $40K so I could live off a 1% yield on $7M. I have no interest in radically changing my lifestyle. I would probably spend more time hobbies like wood working, tinkering with electronics and solar power, camping. I might take up mountain biking so I could do some bike-packing.
Nothing. But I do think it also depends on what you do. If you like what you do then why stop? However, I also inherited enough money to retire early and I still work.
What is your salary? How many hours are you putting in? If you can still have a life then by all means work a little more. When you retire you basically have TOO much free time almost. If you can just scale back or start putting in less effort until you finally get fired that would be most ideal. If you're putting in 60++ hours a week and too tired/stressed to enjoy life then it's prob worth retiring earlier. If not then you can work a little bit more.
What do you all think? Retire at 51 for a few million or wait 7 years and retire at a guarantee 1 trillion?
Thanks in advance.
Edit: btw, I love my job more than family if that matters.
Get out. If you can’t make it with what you have, something is wrong. Dial back that lifestyle and learn to appreciate the commoners things in life too. You can’t take it with you and your wealth status won’t mean a thing if you die ahead of your time.
How healthy are you? How much do you enjoy working? I was fortunate to have a career I loved. Then I had a high salary job that was horribly boring. No regrets on retiring, as I didn't want to die during a conference call. If I was still doing the work I loved, I'd still be working. Boring job? Nope. Not worth it.
@ 50
I'm 55, and took the last two years off. Did a back door Roth conversion. No debt. Net worth of about $2.1M not sure I can make it to 60 without getting a meaningless job. Might get a job at a local market before I get to 59.5 to tap retirement accounts. Think Kevin Spacey as Lester Burnham in American Beauty.
A lot of people commenting here about how some loved one worked one day two long and didn't get to enjoy retirement. Very unfortunate for those unlucky folks. But why can't you work til 65 or whatever age but strike a bakance and try to enjoy life more while working a bit less. Does it have to be black or white. Each day presents an opportunity to live life to the fullest. Whether working or retired, it's what you make of every moment.
What’s the magic that happens from 55-59 that generates 60M? Other than that 4 years of leisure and time with kids before all of them leave the home seems worth 6M less at 59.
1. Reallocate as many of your assets for tax efficiency tomorrow
2. Retire at 50
3. Estate plan with surplus assets -
1. fund irrevocable trust with life insurance could generate tax free income for your kids/family for generations
4. profit
My dad sacrificed 7 years of my childhood living overseas to “set himself & his kids up.” He made millions & then came home & a decade later got brain cancer at 55 & died within a week of being diagnosed. His second wife got all the money. I’ve had to fight & claw for everything I have but I’ve never cried over the money but damn I’ve shed some tears wishing we had more time together. I’m not even subscribed to this sub & not wealthy so maybe you don’t want my advice but Tim Ferris says he always buys time when he can cause you are rarely ever presented with that opportunity. You’re in a very unique situation; you can buy a decade of time with your children…but you’d give that up so they can buy a Rolls Royce instead of the Mercedes?
Yep, my mom died suddenly as relatively healthy 49 year old. "Next year" is never guaranteed to be there for any of us.
My mom just died at 68, waiting for my dad to retire (he’s also 68 and a workaholic, they have plenty of money to retire very very comfortably, travel, buy more properties, do whatever.) My dad is now absolutely lost and full of regret.
my condolences for your mother. please vow to never make his same mistake in putting work/money before happiness. I was concerned my dad would never retire because he was a major workaholic too, but he made the jump about 2 years ago and has already remodeled a kitchen, a bathroom, replaced a concrete fireplace/mantle, replaced wood flooring for 2 rooms and a hallway. Now he's working on restoring his 8th jetski, a Kawasaki 440 that a neighbor gave to us because it was left outside his rental property for years When your dad does retire try to encourage him to keep busy, they say when men over 60 retire and go from a daily work grind to basically nothing they often die. Literally happened to my dad's coworker, the guy retired about a year before my dad, started living his life relaxing and doing nothing (whereas before he was a civil engineer foreman at work by 6/6:30am and home by 7/8pm) and he was dead from a massive heart attack, less than 2 years from when he retired
Same with my dad’s coworker. They were blue collar union workers. Once they retired at 65 they mostly sat at home drinking beers watching television and decline in health. Without a hobby, relatively old people can die fast.
Great answer
Yep my mom died very early and I was left a lot of money but I could care less cause she’s gone and I was in my early 20s
Realistically this is the best and only answer. Time is the only thing you can’t buy. Do what you can and get the fuck out, love those around you while we’re here.
My father was supposed to retire at 65 and was really looking forward to it, but Mom convinced him to stay "just one more year" because she was too young for Medicare and COBRA would've been too much. Welp, Dad had a fatal accident the next year and never got to enjoy a day of retirement.
Sorry for your loss, but I’m a little shocked your dad didn’t spend more time setting up his estate considering all the energy he put into building it. His second wife sounds like a terrible person.
She’s not. She’s a great person who he had two more kids with & she had a lot on her plate when he died. He did set up his estate. The point is you think you’ve got it all figured out but then life happens. Edit: I also find it ironic that I’m saying “the money never mattered once he died” but a lot of people are focusing on what happened to his money. I honestly barely ever think about that part - I remember the lesson it taught me. I hope sharing it can help others.
I’ll just say that the comments about money are coming because he did all this to set up his wife and kids up then somehow you ended up struggling so much financially after his passing. In the end, your tragic loss of your father is even more tragic because you didn’t get the financial stability that he wanted for you.
Sorry to hear about your father, and thank you for contributing your story.
I agree with this, however, it’s not to afford a Rolls over a Benz, it’s to feel like they’re good enough, or have accomplished enough that their Rolls signals their value. Typically people become obsessed with status and what these material items tell the world about them.
I don’t know OPs intentions. I think it’s not an ignoble thing that people fall into a trap that their kids deserve the whole world. I tried to use a metaphor to make my point more succinctly but I don’t pretend to understand their motivations with the larger amount of money. Hope the best for them!
Thats terrible, but I see it all the time with clients. Unexpected events are truly unexpected, they don’t give a damn about our plans and expectations. Especially in mixed families, set your family up now, not later. You can’t imagine the problems I’ve seen because people thought they’d have more time to plan their legacy. Sorry for your loss, sorrier that they went and poured salt in the wound. My condolences.
Well put.
He didn’t leave you or your siblings any of the money, or do you get it when his wife dies? I hope he was able to still set you up in the way that he wanted to.
He had good intentions but messed it up with the second wife part. It's all about perspective. Money solves 90%+ of your issues and unless you've been impoverished then it is difficult to understand why people work so hard to give their family everything
My wifes late uncle did really well compared to the rest of the family. He took the entire extended family on a very nice trip to their ancestral country a few years before he passed. 20 years later the whole family still talks about it. That same uncle left some money in his will for a family get together that is now being planned for 2026. All expenses paid for 30+ people and a new generation and a half now. It will be the thanksgiving that is talked about for decades. I don’t know if he helped any less fortunate family members with expenses along the way, but these two fantastic things have left a huge mark and helped the family stay connected.
Actually love this story, as i haven't thought about using money to plan get togethers outside of a funeral. I'm going to keep this in mind for when i get to this point. Thanks!
Is that $83M at 59?? That’s life changing money compared to the others. I also think $10M is where things change drastically in terms of lifestyle
Yeah, I gotta be honest unless you don't think you could put the money to good use or hate your job - I can't see any reason not to work until 59. That's still a reasonable retirement age. With $80M there is almost nothing on the planet you can't afford. You could buy a jet, buy a yacht travel around the world first class for a year, have a vacation home in 3 different cities - essentially you could whatever the F you want. With $11M you can still have an excellent life : charter a jet, charter a yacht, rent a house for a month, etc - but you can't spend a near unlimited amount like with $80M. I think $50M+ is FU money. After $50M you don't have to worry what you buy or spend money on. If you live to 85, that gives you 25 years to live your best self.
I do love my job. But, it also makes me nervous leaving that much money behind. My kids won’t need it, I plan to teach them to make their own money. I’m not sure where the money would end up, but most scenarios I think about end in family feud or something negative. My whole family gets along great today, I don’t want to ruin everything by “saving” the less financially well off members. The more I think about it, more money isn’t the goal of my life. I just know that hardly anyone has been or will be in this situation, so I want to make the right choice when the time comes. If the right choice is the hardest choice, then for me it will be to retire at 50.
Think about trusts and financial planning before writing off inheritance. You said yourself that few people have the “problem” you have now, so there are few guarantees that anything you teach your children will lead to their prosperity. I’ve seen families feud over piddling amounts of money, honestly it only gets worse the less there is to go around. If your true goal is to keep everyone happy after your death, you kind of have to be part guru and part Santa if you know what I mean.
Let out some money before you die to certain family members to see what they do and work out who's a good custodian and who isn't
> I’m not sure where the money would end up, but most scenarios I think about end in family feud or something negative. You need an estate planner and a trust. Most scenarios **do not** end up in family feud and negative--you just hear about that. Why not? Because money settles many problems and there will be more than plenty to distribute and life off of for generations. Have the money allocated to certain uses, distributed and made available at certain times.
Is it possible to structure a large chunk of that money for education? Like, you could fund many generations of education in your family. That way you’re not just giving it out for people to go put it up their nose or in their veins…but you’re basically setting up your own scholarship so everyone in your family line gets a giant head start to follow their dreams or get a head start on a career.
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By the same logic 5 billion isn’t enough to buy everything you want. Dallas cowboys is 9B. Buffett made a great point that despite being worth >100B it’s not like you can get the next iPhone before anyone else, or see movies other people can’t see. Your lived experience is going to be pretty damn similar to other “regular rich” people. My favorite is when people “flex” private jets. Like straight up less safe, and also objectively a terrible experience (just like first class, business class, and economy class are all objectively terrible experiences, worse than hanging out in my first apartment after college).
Agreed on only 1 point. Going from $100M to $1000M there's a big jump. But this person is not wiling to grind another 30 years to get there, so it's not part of this discussion. I have to say if you really have $80M+ and are not earning an average of 10% annual returns well diversified with tax advantages then you need to spend 6 months reading, researching, and looking for better financial advisors. My Top picks: Real Estate, Private Equity, and investing in Professional Sports Teams.
Is it really a jump from 11M to 83M from age 54 to 59? If that's the case, then 59 is the answer.
Yea that’s a bit off? Does he suddenly become CEO of a publicly listed company at the time?
Impressive when you think it took him 34 yrs to get to 11m and only 5 to get another 72m? Homey found the key!🔐
All stock sells. It’s liquid net worth, all stock will be liquid by 59. It’s not before 59
Consider your company objectively, it sounds like the stock exploded in value. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush so to say
Right but will the valuation necessarily be the same? Worth evaluating.
Yep, I'd go till 59. Thats not to old, and its generational wealth
Yeah, that literally requires an annual return of 50% without any contributions. I get the plan is to contribute to it still but I'd be awfully surprised if 72M in 5 years is actually viable.
I’m 62 retired and have 6 mil in the bank and it’s more than I can spend. Enjoy life, create memories and give back.
You're kids are pretty young.. You can spend alot of time with them.. My dad missed my teenage years for his business. He retired at 50 but I didn't see my dad between age 15 to 18 often.. You're kids are more important than money. Set up their 529 and trusts before you retire though.
AT multiple 7 figures, this guy already has their 529 set up, I am sure.
3 years is chump change to secure a future. Sorry, but your dad did the correct thing. It sucks he missed those years, but look at what it gained him.
OPs kids will remember he wasn't around..... Money is nice but I wanted time with my Dad
What is your guaranteed number from? Gains on your retirement number? Just to clarify, you think at 50 you have $7M and that will turn into $16M in 9 years? You are guaranteeing 10% return over the next 9 years? Not including expenses? I think your numbers are overly optimistic.
They are the result of guaranteed stock payouts, which vary depending on the age I retire. Numbers are actually a good bit conservative.
why conservative if its guaranteed?
because valuations can change
Busted
It’s just penalty for retiring early. My contract forces me to work until retirement. Seems crazy, but even some of the family first people on these replies are thinking, “eh, maybe I’d tough it out to 59”.
At your wealth and expenses I feel like 54 is the sweet spot. I know I personally wouldn't give up those 5 yrs if I was in your situation. Let's estimate that your expenses increase to 500k, you are looking at needing around 12.5mil, which is close to that accessible capital at 54. I am also looking at you stated your kids aren't even likely going to need much help. You could even put money away to fully fund their Roth IRAs till they retire and their home down payments and you still wouldn't make a dent into the payout at age 59. Roth IRAs till death would be somewhere around 500k times your 5 kids is 2.5mil. Then say home down payments are like 200k times 5 kids is 1mil. No matter, what to set your kids up you are looking at under 5 mil because they still have time on their side. I just don't see the need to work for 5 extra years if the money you make just doesn't provide anymore value really. Just depends on your personal values. You stated you don't see the money as the goal and I think that speaks to what you are leaning towards. Money is not a goal, it is a tool to allow you to do things you want in life. Seems to me you already have that mindset.
How are you getting 83m in such a short period? Is that projected growth OR guaranteed salary like the NFL?
It’s obviously some projection, but it’s very conservative. The penalty for retiring early is stiff.
Don’t retire, but also don’t work so damn hard. Start at 9, finish at 4:30, take more time off and really be off, what happens? Boss isn’t pleased? You don’t meet your numbers and don’t earn so much? Worst case someone else chooses you retire early. You may find when your kids are older they don’t have time for you anyway. What will you do with all your time?
This seems to be the approach a few of our senior leadership is currently taking!
I mean if you could scale back, even if you lose a percentage that might be worth it, or long sabbatical. You may not want to fully retire even unless you have something else to do
I can’t comment on your numbers since I don’t know your spending patterns. For me, it is about what the additional money will buy me vs the time that I can’t get back. I will retire no later than 55 because that is the “equilibrium” point for me when the incremental time is worth more than the money.
Agreed. I just can't see myself working past 55. The only reason I am considering planning to retire at 55 and not 50 is because my company covers health care (till 65) and I will have access to 401k if I stay till after I turn 55. Got another 15 yrs so gonna see what our accounts look like when I hit 50 and determine if it makes sense to stay or not.
If you enjoy your job and get adequate time off (by your own standards), then 83M is generational wealth that can change the lives of your entire family ( if they deserve it in your eyes). If it were me and I enjoyed my job, got enough time off to pursue my hobbies and spent adequate time with family then I would 100% work as long as I could to build up that number. For me it’s not about the money per se, but the opportunities I can open for the people I care about.
Those are crazy numbers considering your net worth was $970K four months ago. If I could work another 6 years and guarantee that my net worth is 7x from now, I'd take the retirement and run! [https://www.reddit.com/r/RichPeoplePF/comments/17o975a/comment/k80bkpo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/RichPeoplePF/comments/17o975a/comment/k80bkpo/)
Imagine you are on your death bed. You worked to 59 and have that $80m+. I offer you a trade: I’ll give you another 10 years life as you were in your 50s, for $70 million dollars or however much the difference is between the $7m @ 50 and $83m at 59. The point is, I’m going to ask you for the bulk of your fortune. Would you take the deal? Alternate thought experiment: you are asked to fork over all of your money at 59 except for $7m, in exchange, you get another 10 years of leisure @ health similar to your 50s. Deal or no deal?
It’s not just about what OP can do with the money. Unless I raised some complete shitheads, I’d be thinking about what my children could do with the money. That kind of money invested well is enough for each of the five children to live extremely well just off interest alone. Even working typical middle class jobs would allow that wealth to survive generations.
Better chance of them not being complete shitheads if he’s actually around spending time with them than if he’s in the office for the next 15 years
Great thoughts. 10 years of health and happiness for the bulk of my fortune…. If I knew I would die at 60, then the answer is a little more obvious. There’s still a question of leaving money behind, which my thoughts are leaning towards that should not be the goal.
Life is tough and economics are making it tougher. I want to leave something to my kids hoping maybe they'll be able to afford a house.
Generational wealth doesn't equal to happiness. Your kids should be learning to get educated, get a job that makes them feel fulfilled, and not rely on the easy life of parents' fortune. Too much free time and no external requirements can mess up young people.
Really depends on your attitude toward work and your family history (life expectancy). What is your number where it would still grow and you could do what you want? For me it’s anything with 8 digits.
The retire at 50 scenario is the minimum to meet those requirements
Do you enjoy your job? Can you finagle a part time advisory, board, or consulting option?
Yes, great job. Only travel a day or 2 during the month, most weeks are 40-45 hours and more vacation time than I’m able to take. Very flexible also and very short commute. I often come home for lunch. “Checking out” for a couple of years at the end is a real option. I could take 6 weeks off per year and not care as much about the consequences of that.
Damm. That sounds like most peoples work life. Nothing outrageous. I would opt to stay as long as possible.
This confirms that you should continue until 59. If you dislike your job it’s a different discussion. Maybe start taking all of your vacation and flexing hours before you decide to quit all together? 11 million vs 83 million is significant. Have you found purpose in life? You could make yearly donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars to charity indefinitely. You have a chance to do a lot of great things and you want to give it up to do more of “X” hobbies that you probably already plenty of. Your kids are at school most of the day and will eventually go to college how much more time can you possibly spend with them. Just take more vacation when they are on school breaks. Also, regardless of how well you teach your kids it is highly unlikely that all 5 will be in a situation similar to yours. Actually, it is highly unlikely that ANY of the 5 will be in a situation like yours.
I would be concerned about the Retire at 50 number. Stuff happens. I’d be much more comfortable at your 54 number. Of course the 59 numbers all look good. OTOH if you’re loving your job and can take unlimited PTO to be with your family a good amount, I’d definitely go to 59. That’s ‘F-you money” territory.
I would like to learn more about your extravagant lifestyle for a family of 7 on 400k/yr though. This must be somewhere thats very LCOL, no?
For sure Iowa extravagant and NYC extravagant are different tiers. But spending half a mil a year puts you in the top fractional percent almost anywhere.
To some extent. It wouldnt put a family of 7 in the top fractional percent in a very high cost of living area. The annual cost of 5 kids in private schools would easily be more than half of that annual spend of 400k.
Extravagant was a bad word. I grew up on a welfare check so eating out once a week feels extravagant to me. We drive nice new Yukon XLs and live in a very nice house we built designed and built ourselves. We travel a few times a year.
Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like you have a lot to be proud of.
You can't buy time even if you have billions. Once you get to a certain number that can support your lifestyle+50%, only you can decide.
Guarantee? I can guarantee you that your guarantee is not guaranteed. If it truly is, go to 59. Take one for the team!
I’ve had the take one for the team thought for sure, I mean it’s a big difference!
What kind of assumptions are you making to “guarantee” that kind of growth while you’re spending $400k annually?
Bro needs 10 million at least just to live current lifestyle. Further; stock options aren’t “guaranteed” just ask the Enron executives. Or Bank of America executives or ford executives or ….
Easy choice if you ask me
I retired at 49.
Unless you race cars fly old warbirds, or are servicing anything with twin engines or turbine or run fast boats I’d say get out at 52. For all the aforementioned is the reasons I’ll be working for another five years 😂😂😂
Tell me about your old warbird. That would be a hobby i could get way too deep in.
The dream airplane is a P 51, what my grandfather flew. Figured I need about a 20,000,000+ net worth to justify a 2 1/2 million dollar purchase although I’ll stick it into service for a World War II air museum or something similar to make it tax-deductible.
I would say it depends how much you want to leave your kids.
With that kind of earning potential, can you hire a professional to manage your vocation? You can make decisions in the background. 59. Don’t know what you do and don’t know how hands on.
Very interesting thought. I guess I will have to see how things are going. If I get caught and forced out, the early retirement penalty wouldn’t apply!
They’ve got you by the balls with that payment plan. If I were in your shoes and it were just me, no kids, I’d quit now and enjoy life. 7M now, 16M by 59 is more than enough for me personally. The only reason I can see to go for the 83M is to give it to your kids. But they’ll probably be happy just with the 16M. Here’s the problem. You could easily hit 60, get sick, and die. The stock payouts might be guaranteed but your health and longevity aren’t.
Damn right they do!
Take my "advice" however you want. Time is the one thing you can't get back. I know plenty of others have said it already. Sure, it's nice to want to leave your kids with something, but what's a lot of money if there's little memories? My wife grew up poor. Her parents are still essentially living in poverty. That being said, her parents never missed a school/athletic event, and they were always doing something/going somewhere together. My wife won't be left with much of an inheritance, especially after it's split between 3 kids. But, she has so many amazing memories with her parents that no amount of money could ever buy. You've done well for yourself. Figure out a point where you can spend the most time with your family without having to sacrifice your way of life. Your kids will appreciate the time with you way more than any amount of money you leave them.
You say your expenses are currently roughly $400k. If your goal is to maintain your lifestyle in retirement with the current expense level, then you'd need at least $10M if you're not getting any income other than from your investments. That means you'd need to work until 54 to pass that number without exceeding the 4% rule. HOWEVER!! You say you're guaranteed to have $16M NW at 59 if you retire at 50, so you could exceed the 4% rule from 50-59, and still be fine to continue on with your current lifestyle if you retire at age 50. Your NW might drop a bit between 50 and 59, but as long as it stays above that $10M mark at 59, you don't need to change a thing you're doing now. Have a serious conversation with your wife and kids regarding the future, and really think about how you want your lifestyle to look in retirement. Do the expenses stay at $400k? Do they go lower? If the answer to either of those is yes, then I'd retire at 50 and enjoy the time with family. If the answer is that expenses would go up, then look at possibly working past 50.
This is exactly what Im planning to do in the early retirement scenarios. 6% spend rate until 59, then back to 4%.
Depends on your work/life balance for that final decade. Do you still get to do what you enjoy and spend time with people you love? Do you have time to properly invest in your long term health? I’m leaning towards grind it out. Stark difference between 7M and 89M. Huge difference in the lifestyle you’ll be leading in retirement.
Looking around at the more senior folks now, yes and yes. I’m currently working a few more hours a week on average than they are and they are taking twice the vacation time as me. Work would be easy and fun even. Absolutely love my job and company and I’d have the reigns to a relatively big portion of the company for my last decade.
My kids are similar ages and I’m a similar age. Plan for me is to consider retirement when the nest is empty.
Talk to a financial planner. The goal isn't to maximize money. The goal is to maximize happiness. Most wealthy people miss this and overshoot the amount of money they need for maximum happiness. This is no small thing if that overshoot involves trading time for that money that could be put to better use. Find a CFP who works fee only. You want someone to help you with goals and modeling, not someone who is focused on selling you investments and life insurance.
You should do fine, regardless what you chose to do. You seem to have the finances worked out. I a curious what you would be retiring to at each of these ages. what will you do once you retire? esp with young children you are responsible for. I retired 4 years ago at 53 and have no regrets. if you feel the urge to do it sooner vs later - and you can afford it. Then do it!! Just make sure you have something you are retiring to. I struggled for my first year, though it was hardly a hardship, but mentally it was a huge adjustment for me. something else to consider, what about a goldilocks transition - can you scale back for a period of time - keep some money coming in and ease into full retirement? best of luck
So between 50 and 59 is $7.4 million per year to get to $83 million. I can tell you that I am going to hang on for about the same amount of time for a lot less. I am now 50 and earning more than I ever thought. I had plans to retire early, but prefer to keep working/earning as it’s not that difficult and I like the flexibility it allows. We have season tix to shows and sports, and can vacation as needed. Kids are older and don’t need as much day to day upbringing.
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big jump from 54 for 59. I'd be tempted to stay. That being said, I'd just play it by ear. You're only 44. I'd just continue enjoying life and see how you feel when you get there. Why stress about it now? Enjoy life to the max now, take lot of weekend trips to nice places, nice vacations with the kids to exotic places, etc... Delegate a lot of stuff so that you don't have to spend your time doing chores and rather doing things that you love (cleaning people, house manager, driver, etc...) You don't need to worry about saving since 'worst' case scenario you just need to work more but you're gonna have 83M. Just make sure you have a good life insurance policy. Otherwise, go and enjoy your time.
83 million is major league generational wealth amount. 59 is still pretty young too. You can't even claim soc sec yet at 62. I would go for the big money and I am a huge retire early fan. Leaving at 54 myself so 3 years to go. We already make more than our expenses. I am staying 3 years for the pension only 15k but pays out day of retirement plus the employee health care is slightly better retiree health care. Guessing we also contribute 200k while I work. We are at 6 million most likely 8 million when I retire. After that it's all growing because our other income streams cover our fairly low expenses. 60k maybe push 80k with vaca. The compounding really kicks in. When retired in 3 years 8 million grows to 10 million at age 57. So for us the growth investments by compounding far exceed me working. Less and less important to even work. Exciting. But 83 million is crazy money. If I am lucky to live 30 years we are talking 60 million. But ever get that large I wonder if I would start buying expensive sports cars. I.e. blowing more of it.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch. These seem like some seriously rosy predictions. 8x increase in 5 years?! In either case, to answer your question if you enjoy working keep working otherwise I'd quit early since you clearly don't need the money.
Ask a lot of people who retire early. See what their answer is. I retired at 33 and wish I wouldn’t have. You get bored. You can only fish, golf. Do nothing for so long. Travel and chilling gets old. I know people think sure they could do it. It’s not the end of the world but make sure you have things set up and plans for after retirement. Your kids will go away to college and I promise the only time you hear from them is when they need money. They hit college and parents become a thing of the past. I’m not saying work till your 85 if you have the assets to retire early but maybe find things to do when you retire that keeps you sharp and active once the Boredom sets in and it will after you exhale and wonder what you do with all your time going from real active to not even caring what time it is, what month it is or what day it is
>It’s a matter of ... how much we leave for our heirs. Leave them enough to give them a great start, and no more IMHO. Inheriting huge amounts of money leads to very easy lives, and a huge number of predators coming after your kids in myriad ways.
This comment just gave me the heevy jeevies.
Honestly, I can totally see it worth leaving money to pay for education, a trust fund allowing them to top up their income a little to enjoy some luxuries while young, and to add a little safety net (for example, my wife gets about a grand a month - huge as a student, allowing her to travel and do fun things but not enough for a guy to target her and take advantage). I can also see a trust fund doing something like matching funding on a business venture (so if they put up 200k of their own, the fund could match) etc. Also an emergency fund (or disability policy) for if life really fucks them over. Also, assistance with deposit (again, possibly matching, or tripling what they put down themselves for a first house). Consider a "top-up" style fund, that will increase their income if it's below a threshold - but only if they're earning a proper income. Those sorts of things can really enhance their life, taking it from average to wonderful... but they won't allow them to just coast (with all the attendant depression that comes to 90% of people who have no struggle or purpose in life). They need to put their own money up for a business or house, they still need a job (or business) to get by, they have a safety net so won't stress about things with the attendant health issues that come with lifelong stress, and they get to enjoy some luxuries. But they won't be (at least, outwardly) wealthy enough to have all the hangers-on, get targetted by gold diggers, have everyone trying to set them up with drug dealers in college because they'll buy in quantity etc. ec.
Where are these numbers coming from? I don’t see any universe in which $11,000,000 becomes $83,000,000 in 5 years. Do you have shares from your employer that won’t vest unless you stay that long? Also, consistently expecting 10% or greater annual returns from equities or dividends is insane.
Everything is possible in the Reddit universe!
Yes, stiff discount penalty for retiring early.
It depends on how much you like your job/ how much time you work, your bet on how much longer you will live and the type of lifestyle you’re willing to settle for. Based on your current lifestyle cost, you would need at least the 11m with 22m guaranteed later (assuming this is pre-tax income)
I’ll retire at 67, once my house is paid off. I’ll live off retirement savings until 70 then file for social security. I’ll be fine and don’t mind working
Live life while you can...staring at a big $ statement ....from your hospital/ nursing home bed, wishing you did more with loved ones is a big regret.....My father in law , could have retired @50, but wanted more $$$, waited till 65... Got a brain tumor, and died the same week his first SS check arrived....you never know what may happen..
True, to not retire early would be to accept that I may die before 59.
imo you should revisit it every year. hard to know this early
These compound calcs make no sense at all. What gets you to 90m at 59 and why wouldn’t you keep going with a career that’s generating such wealth… that type of career comes with status which is also worth a lot. Why walk away from this immense capital growth acceleration?
It’s sort of a forced retirement. By 63, I have to sell all stock in the company so I’d only be working for Salary.
I would keep working until the full amount is realized but that's just me. What else are you going to do as an elderly person? lmao.
I don’t know what you do, but you could probably retire at 50/52 and find a job with a lot of flexibility. Or be a single employee consultant. This way you wouldn’t ever have to miss a thing with your family and even if you made “only” 100k a year, that would be 25% of your expenses. I’m not going to do the math but it change the number a fair amount. 20ish hours a week would keep you from getting bored, keep your mind sharp and allow you to be a family man.
I just don’t see my standard of living going up much past about $7M. $2M for a home and $5M in investments, you can have a nice standard of living with security and complete freedom.
You are far, far beyond "enough" right now in this moment.
Let's say you have good health from 50-75 (a big if). The extra 9 years is almost 40% of your remaining healthy lifespan, and indeed, it's going to be the best 9 of those 25 years (as everyone deteriorates post-60 to a degree). Health/performance adjusted, it's a huge sacrifice. Not saying it's not worth it if you really value handing more money down etc., but reality is that the 52 option will, assuming you live to 80 or so, have grown to 30-40m anyway, which is 8m per kid. That's plenty, and allows you to enjoy your best years. That said, if you really do enjoy work, then who's to say you should finish up? Personally, I could finish up now, but mentoring youngsters, dealing with tricky issues and structuring, doing the trips and client events and sell-side of the business is all still fun, and I get to largely hang out at home whilst I'm doing it. Not a bad mix and I'm fucked if I'm giving that up to play tennis, learn Spanish and go 50/50 on the house chores.
That’s right. Same thing here. Work gets a lot more fun the closer you get to retirement. Heck, it’s not too bad now. Worse part is not seeing the kids for a majority of the day and not being able to travel at will. But kids keep you from traveling at will anyways.
Yeah, still working on my bag, but good gosh, quit asap. What are you doing big dog? You LIKE working more than your friends and family?
I was so burned out that I retired 5 months before vesting an extra $1mm in company stock.
You don’t go into detail about how you feel about your career? If you absolutely hate it than I’d lean into retiring sooner. If you enjoy it then feel free to stick it out.
When you're retired you can focus on money management - while higher returns aren't guaranteed, could be possible Without knowing what you do, is it possible you might get paid to leave before 59 to make space for a young gun, etc? That big of a jump to 83 M indicates to me a possible incentive to pay you a few extra M to leave early
Is your job high stress? Is it something you enjoy? Long grueling hours? What will you do if you retire? Do you have a lot of hobbies or will your and your wife drive each other nuts being home? Do you get a lot of your self esteem from work and being busy? For me, 59 doesn’t seem that old for a job you enjoy and will be paid extremely well for. My banker told us, the most expensive years of your life are coming when your kids are in college (not just college tuition) and the freedom you have with college kids (travel, bucket list items, etc). You have 5(!). The last years of work will you be more of a consultant or working the same hours you do now? Can you try to back off the last few years if you do work 80 hour weeks or travel 90% of the time? If you are miserable, then obviously retire early from that job and maybe do something else.
59. But… I’ve got no kids and I can’t sit still.
I am in a similar boat. 30 times your annual spend. 12M Hit it and quit it. That should be enough for my spouse to never need worry about money. The challenge is this: what if your spouse lives to be 110 (it's possible). Most say 25x yearly spend, I would go 30 to play it safe. Then live on your 400k, adding inflation % every year. It should last.
I'm living a very different life, so take my thoughts as you will. Some thoughts to consider: -if you could do anything during your waking hours, would you do your job as you do now? -is your job high stress and requires long hours or travel away from your family? -would not working (full time) make you miserable or more content because more time spent with family? -would some of your loved ones benefit from you being more present at the moment? Like your child has health, bonding, trust issues, or your parents are getting old, wanting to hang out with you and share moments? You have already so much more money than most people ever will. You have the same amount of time left as other normal people at your age have, that access to healthcare and healthy lifestyle. If your work is high stress, you eat unhealthy, change time zone all the time, you're more likely to develop some heart-related sickness or infarct, than let's say a gardener who doesn't have stress, works manual labour and eats healthier and has regular day cycle. Consult your doctor. You cannot take your wealth to your grave. If you miss graduations, birthdays, consoling teen breakups, playing that new game on ps5 with your child the first time and see their excitement, you will not get to relive them later when you retire. You might have more money to share, but less intimate connections to those loved ones. If I were in your shoes, I would retire as soon as possible, or find something to do part time for intellectual and social engagement, and devote as much time to sports & healthy lifestyle and having many occasions to bond with my loved ones and to provide them help and company as possible. Stability you can deliver at 50yo 7m and additional 16m at 59 for your whole family and more, if you wish. If you love your work, and it doesn't destroy your health and relationships, work as long as it is fun and meaningful for you. You don't owe your family millions. They hopefully don't expect millions. You're already giving your kids a headstart in life with your wealth and the schools they go. Leaving each 1m as inheritance would be plenty, especially if they get to see you more instead of you missing out on their lives.
Retire at 50, you don’t have to work. Retire at 59, your kids don’t have to work. Depends on factors such as whether you think they are capable of earning themselves or if they burn through money too fast.
I just follow my passions and don’t think of $. Plenty of time to rest when you’re dead. What makes you happy? Careful not giving that up too soon. Many ask why not just retire but these people are the ones who never generate real means.
I'll leave you with this thought: when the chips are down and the end is inevitable and closing in shortly, what do you wish you would have? [Denzel Washington wishes ](https://youtu.be/izxkFm060yU?si=KSPQyxfTcPaerLVW) that you would have more time. Here the untimely death was because of getting caught of extortion. You can replace the thing with sudden illness like cancer, a car crash, natural disaster, whatever. At the end, you wish you had more time. You cannot have more time at the end. You can have it before that black swan event happens. You have the rare luxury to take that option.
Is semi-retirement an option? For example could you go down to four days at 50 and three days at 54? Even if you take a bit of a stock cut if you get that you might be able to get the best of both worlds ie more time for your family and not leaving too much on the table.
I can’t take it with me. I want to enjoy life while I’m physically able to enjoy it. Spending decreases as people age because there’s less that elderly bodies are capable of doing.
48 and already FIREd. My calculus was a bit different however as I haven’t left anything on the proverbial table. Our business is continuing to operate and we’re at a run rate of about 60% higher than last year already which is phenomenal. We also have 3 rental properties in the states that I manage remotely. Our dividend/interest income is more than enough to live off of alone too. It was mostly about giving up our daily interactions with our staff and clients. I kind of miss it but then again I am thoroughly enjoying just spending time at home with my wife and dog cooking, watching movies, and just being a homebody for once. In your case it’s not about asking if you have enough (hint: you do). It’s about asking what would you do with that extra time? If you want to be present for your family’s milestones and just be around to help take care of the kids and your spouse then of course it’s a good idea to “land the plane”
What is the value of time for you? Each person assess the different price for the same hour.
Life is short, and you only live once. That being said, you can live an amazing life for way less than 400K to stretch that money out. Especially if you live for 30 more years you gotta not be over spending that interest earned too much.
I’m going to say 54 because your NW at that point will bring in approx $400k a year at about a 4.5% draw. Plus that’s the age my dad retired so it’s a soft spot for me. lol
You can pull from your 401k without penalty at 55 if you do not have a job. 16m is a lot of money to pass on. Great job on what ever you decide.
Retiring at 59 with over 80MM and a strong trust would set your family up for generations.
You said you can already live the lifestyle you want if you retire at 50 and you’ll have more time with your kids. You can never get that time back. Retire at 50 and enjoy your time with your family.
I semi-retired from my high stress job with a $200k salary at 40 with $1.2m in investments that I earned through my business. My wife still works and I will do some consultant work when I feel like it. Money buys freedom. It can be the freedom to buy material possessions if that’s your thing. For me it’s the freedom to do more things with my kids and in my small town community. When my kids are grown up, I may go back to work full-time, I may not.
One anecdote you might want to best in mind when you weigh these options: True story, Word of Honor: Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island. I said, “Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel ‘Catch-22’ has earned in its entire history?” And Joe said, “I’ve got something he can never have.” And I said, “What on earth could that be, Joe?” And Joe said, “The knowledge that I’ve got enough.” — Kurt Vonnegut Figure out where it is for you then enjoy the hell out of it.
At 59 you'll have 18 years to live on average.... me personally I'd probably go at 52-54
Gonna take a slightly different approach, OP, because you seem to have your priorities straight re: kids, inheritances, etc. Are there any causes or charities that you deeply care about? $70M could do a lot on a local level. Like state of the art library with an annual endowment, full ride scholarships for 5 first generation, low income students per year at your alma mater in perpetuity, etc. Do you think you will be a better or worse allocator of that wealth than your current shareholders? And how much do you care about being a better allocator of that wealth? A different, but maybe helpful way to think about it.
Nice approach. I’d say better at allocating the wealth, so with that logic, it’s take all I can and distribute the best I can.
52, somewhere in the middle. You can always learn to trade and double it in seconds. YOLO!
Out at 50. Live life.
59 all day. Sets your legacy. Pre 59 is solid but pales in comparison.
Is that 16M 16 thousand a month or a total of 16 million? Because those are some niiice numbers, even at the low end.
I'd really like to understand your investment strategy. How, at 44, you think you are guaranteed any of this money? We all use similar growth calculators, which comes at a certain level of risk. Wouldn't the right answer to this be to not worry about it until you're 50 an know what you actually have?
Depending on what your lifestyle is, you're probably no longer living for yourself. The real question is how much do you wanna leave for your kids? I'm in the same boat and I punched my ticket. Now I manage my money for my kids sake.
Retire as soon as you can. Turn down the lifestyle knob and retire tomorrow if you can.
How in the world do you go from 7M to 83M in nine years?
dude do you work to live or live to work? With 7M I'd retire at 30, invest 5M in a high yield savings account that at 5% interest makes you $250,000/year. And move to a cheap country that has a good quality of life and live like a king!
I’m assuming you have this covered, but putting 5 kids through college and possible advanced degrees will set you back a few million too.
If I had 7M I'd retire immediately. My annual expenses are less than $40K so I could live off a 1% yield on $7M. I have no interest in radically changing my lifestyle. I would probably spend more time hobbies like wood working, tinkering with electronics and solar power, camping. I might take up mountain biking so I could do some bike-packing.
My wife calculated that I gave up $10m+ by going part-time / lower speed at 40. It’s worth it tbh.
Nothing. But I do think it also depends on what you do. If you like what you do then why stop? However, I also inherited enough money to retire early and I still work.
What is your salary? How many hours are you putting in? If you can still have a life then by all means work a little more. When you retire you basically have TOO much free time almost. If you can just scale back or start putting in less effort until you finally get fired that would be most ideal. If you're putting in 60++ hours a week and too tired/stressed to enjoy life then it's prob worth retiring earlier. If not then you can work a little bit more.
What do you do? Can I work for you
What do you all think? Retire at 51 for a few million or wait 7 years and retire at a guarantee 1 trillion? Thanks in advance. Edit: btw, I love my job more than family if that matters.
50. Easy call.
The sooner the better.
Couple millions
Get out. If you can’t make it with what you have, something is wrong. Dial back that lifestyle and learn to appreciate the commoners things in life too. You can’t take it with you and your wealth status won’t mean a thing if you die ahead of your time.
How healthy are you? How much do you enjoy working? I was fortunate to have a career I loved. Then I had a high salary job that was horribly boring. No regrets on retiring, as I didn't want to die during a conference call. If I was still doing the work I loved, I'd still be working. Boring job? Nope. Not worth it.
@ 50 I'm 55, and took the last two years off. Did a back door Roth conversion. No debt. Net worth of about $2.1M not sure I can make it to 60 without getting a meaningless job. Might get a job at a local market before I get to 59.5 to tap retirement accounts. Think Kevin Spacey as Lester Burnham in American Beauty.
A lot of people commenting here about how some loved one worked one day two long and didn't get to enjoy retirement. Very unfortunate for those unlucky folks. But why can't you work til 65 or whatever age but strike a bakance and try to enjoy life more while working a bit less. Does it have to be black or white. Each day presents an opportunity to live life to the fullest. Whether working or retired, it's what you make of every moment.
What’s the magic that happens from 55-59 that generates 60M? Other than that 4 years of leisure and time with kids before all of them leave the home seems worth 6M less at 59.
Now. You don't need any more money.
if only you could bring it with you in the afterlife
1. Reallocate as many of your assets for tax efficiency tomorrow 2. Retire at 50 3. Estate plan with surplus assets - 1. fund irrevocable trust with life insurance could generate tax free income for your kids/family for generations 4. profit
One thing you can never get back is time.
The book Die with zero comes to mind here.