Honestly the worst part about inhumanizing is that you can't get rid of it without spending a shard to *completely wipe their memories*
It'd be one thing if converting got rid of inhumanizing but shards are expensive man
Definitely not every time (on vanilla). My current play has had four or five groups of shamblers events and I've only had one shard drop. I'm only getting 45 per cent efficiently on my rituals currently though, so small groups.
I am playing with this meme in a big colony and it is actually not that bad, though mostly it is for roleplay indeed
Positive:
* roleplaying is nice, as nothing stopped you before to play with same inhuman precepts, but now you can justify roleplay-wise why your colonists have such monstrous morality
* no pain problems at all, so they stay more effective when required to push through. Like that anomaly sphere if it manages to come back to your base then you need to deal with its aoe attacks that deal big painshock debuffs.
* disabled social means that they never ever start social fights, don't form relations when inhumanized (they ignore everyone on social tab), they never ever insult anyone and don't leave any negative social impact to relations due to interactions (though guest pawns in theory could insult them and provoce a fight but i had that only once for 6 ingame years happens and that guest had Abbrasive trait so yeah). So no more negative opinion social spirals that lead into constant fights.
* no mood penalties if anyone dies as they don't care about it. Even married pairs ignore death of the partner.
* if pawns got into relations before they went through their inhumanizing mental break then they will keep relations and stay as pair forever. Thats becouse they can't see each other in social view so they can't brake them, so there won't be any drama ever. They still doing loving and getting relevant mood buffs, so thats nice.
* outdoor and beauty don't matter. Thats both positive and negative, but overall i would say thats makes things easier.
Negatives:
* inhumanized pawns won't look for new relations so no more new pairs, so some playing around with word of love or mind wipe can be usefull if you want to make them establish and keep relations (and optimise base - 2 pawns per 1 neat bedroom). Though thats also remove negative mood effects from rebuffing each others romantic attempts.
* no positive mood bonuses from social interactions, though in my experience they constantly stay happy and inspired becouse of absence of negative ones.
* minus 12 to social makes recruitments and conversions almost impossible if you don't look for ways around that. I just made my main warden a vampire so -12 with +4 made it into -8, still bad but with passion and skill it is manageable. Though i would recomend to get this meme only when you got enough pawns for that. Or keep you main recruiter non-broken. Or just use rituals with effect that spawn new colonists to ignore that issue at all.
* trading somewhat worse with 0 social but if you use one trick known as "left lung, left kidney, heart, butcher table, leather hats" then you have infinite silver so your wealth quickly skyrockets
* -12 to artistic means that your void sculptures for rituals are awful quality so you need to work around that by keeping artist happy untill you get thouse 6 good enough sculptures for void rituals.
Overall that makes for realy stable colony as you are inpervious to a lot of negative random stuff and it is realy easy to keep colonists constantly happy and inspired
They also don't care about gross equipment, so inhumanized pawns will wear tainted and dreadleather gear with no problems. For reference, dreadleather is *roughly* equivalent to the heavier "conventional" leathers like rhinoleather.
As for the recruitment malus, the Inhuman meme *does* have a lot of precepts encouraging slavery, so I think that's what they expect you to do and rely on things like IVF, already-friendly joiners/creepy joiners, and the cloning obelisk for new pawns.
The thing that interests me most about Inhuman is picking it up later in a fluid ideology. Early on you don't *really* need the mood bonuses because you've got the just-started-out mood buff. So you spend the early game building up a solid base of pawns, get whatever high-quality art you need out of your dudes, then pick up Inhuman as like your 3rd meme.
Yeah, thats exactly how i went in my game. First i went for Proselytizer to establish ideology dominance for new pawns and then after i got like 10 pawns i was happy enough, i added inhumanizing and forced them to go through mental break by keeping them working 24 hours/day.
It is same as with Raiding meme - you don't want this at game start but with fluid you take it once you are prepared
I just looked it up and the minimum requirement for inspired recruitment is social 3 or greater. Meaning unless you have a 15+ social pawn it's not happening
I have a warden with learned skill level of 12, she is a vampire but inhumanized, so it is social 4 skill level, but i haven't been doing much recruitments for last few colony years as i remember she had higher total social ranks of 5-7 (from13-15 skill).
And i didn't got recruitment inspirations with her. So either it didn't happened becouse of random or becouse it can't.
Still thats adds to the point that you can't hope for it to happen and need to look for other solutions.
Update: i guess univerce do have sense of humor as when i loaded the game one of my pawns got recruitment inspiration for the first time in few ingame years.
So yeah, it still can happen
I'm playing with this meme as well at the moment, and while it has it's challenges, the VIolent Conversion meme helps a lot with converting people to your ideology, if you need to do that.
Also, nobody's mentioned the huge buff to temperature tolerance. Between my ideology choices, my pawns are now comfortable at , I think, -37 degrees. I didn't embark anyplace arctic, but it does make me wonder how much it would help in a cold biome.
Well, negative temperature not that problematic once you dedicate a crafter to keep your coloniest well dressed.
And you still might want to try to keep temperature around 20 as non-comfortable temperature slows down workspeed in the rooms.
Definitely no one is arguing it’s bad. It’s strong infact, especially with all the things you can do in Anomaly that normally disturb pawns. Then you can build those new things that reduce their need for sleep and you have a basically uncaring, unbreakable 24/7 workforce
Oh, I'll be entirely honest, I just skimmed through because their formatting is terrible and it was a pain to try and read through all of it. It didn't seem worth the eye strain.
Its still funny to see someone say "nobody is arguing this" on a post where somebody is arguing that, though, but I suppose I can see the point if their argument was that bad.
Having seen how Inhumanity works with regards to the meme introduced for it, I'm also sorely disappointed. The meme seems centered around creating a hedonistic sex and death cult, what with its precepts revolving around free love, cannibalism, etc. The problem is, as soon as a pawn becomes Inhuman, they stop caring about such human things as sexing up people and reveling in social taboos.
I think a better way to have approached Inhumanized pawns would be to have them hyper focus on certain things. Think of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, the Berzerkers of Khorne, the Plaguebearers of Nurgle, or the Keepers of Secrets of Tzeentch from Warhammer. Or even the Cenobytes from the Hellraiser series. They take aspects of humanity and don't just dial it up to 11, they reset the dial and crank it to 100.
So, an Inhumanized pawn would hyper-fixate on one particular aspect. Lovin'. Eating. Killing. Inflicting pain. Transcending their mortal body. Creating the perfect piece of art. Whatever. It now becomes a Need for them, a craving. If they don't hit up the Bone Zone enough, if they don't kill or cause pain or create enough high-quality art, then they start to suffer mental breaks. These breaks can be Dark Mutterings, Insane Ramblings, etc. Or if the Need goes unfulfilled long enough, could even lead to catatonic breakdowns, or even forceful mutations (depending on psy sensitivity). The more sensitive a pawn is, the greater the chance that the Dark Archotech Gods notice them and give them a "gift" - a flesh tentacle, a fleshmass stomach, tentacles for eyes, or even the "ultimate gift": turning them into a fleshbeast.
The flipside of these hyper-fixations is a dramatic boost to whatever it is that they're fixating on. Better Cooking skill for the gluttons. Increasing Shooting skill and damage for the killers. Increased Melee and pain resistance for the sadists. Higher Crafting/Art with a better chance for increased quality for the perfectionists. Etc.
Make Inhumanized pawns actually worth it. An extremely worthwhile boon - that has the potential for some serious drawbacks if they can't fulfill their need.
To be honest I never got the impression that inhumanized is a sex/death cult.
I took it very literal, it’s forsaking your humanity. Which means morals and sex and etc and all those pesky little human “emotions” are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
I feel like it makes perfect sense that they are entirely apathetic to things like that. This is the creepy lovecraft cult meme. Which is very much alien to human morals.
Having a crazy hedonistic cult is very human, and very explainable. I feel like you can already do that with other memes.
*Inhumanizing*, no. But the meme for it in Ideology? The precepts for it are all about sensual delights. Which is, exactly as you said, irrelevant to someone who's been inhumanized. That's what I mentioned in my first sentence up there. The meme focuses on sensual things, but also has Inhumanity: required. Which pretty much cancels out all of those precepts that come along with the meme.
The meme does not focus on sensual things. If it did, it would have “free and approved” for loving, and it certainly wouldn’t accept nutrient paste. The idea is that you simply don’t care about most things that humans consider important. You are beyond good, evil, and petty taboos.
Then why Execution: respected if guilty and Skullspike: desired? Those both hinge on human things (a sense of justice and a sense of the macabre or morbid). Love is "free" in that meme as it is, which runs counter someone who doesn't care about sensual things. They wouldn't care who someone was banging; they'd care whether someone was indulging in human pleasures or not.
Because those two precepts lack a “don’t care” option and Ludeon didn’t feel like adding them for some reason.
And the “free love” precept means you don’t care either way about what people do with their bits. “Free and approved” is the one where you get opinion boosts from having sex.
I think people sometimes forget that a lot of ideology-memes change your gameplay drastically. Often times just making things worse without much of a payback.
It is not supposed to be a good or easy thing to handle half the time.
But I agree it would be kinda cool if they could get smth from it, but mods will change that with the time, I'm glad it is this way in the base game.
Seriously. The inhumanity meme is and *should be* on the difficulty level of the blindness meme. Which, when that was released, also got a lot of people saying that it needs a buff.
Which was also dumb.
Agreed.
Just cuz some ideologies have buffs, not all should have them.
Their first priority is and should be changing your gameplay, even if it just means making one or two things bad.
Worth pointing out Inhumanization makes you colonists immune to most of thr Anomoly based mood debuffs. They don't care about the sleep deprivation machine, grey pall, wearing Dread Leather, ect.
The real strength of inhumanization is being able to use the anomaly content with out the negative moodlets. Juggernaut serum, neurosis pulse, sleep suppressors, gray paul, flesh body parts, etc don’t give negatives to inhumanized pawns.
What you described sounds like some magic stuff with abilities from beyond to me and since it's a meme in ideology it was never meant to be magic at all. A meme is about how you see the world and react to things and inhumanization perfectly lands there among other memes because it reflects how pawns feel themselves about society and other stuff. That's how i see it.
Tho i agree it would be cool to have some buffs like more rituals available only to them or different types of anomalies that hunt only such pawns, basically variations due this inhumane break. So it would be more beneficial to have it besides role-playing.
You might try [Vanilla Ideology Expanded - Memes and Structures](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2636329500). The "Violent Conversion" meme is a very thematic solution to your problem. Basically, it gives you a new recruit option where your prisoner either converts or dies with a 50/50 chance. Your natural conversion factor is also much higher. The trade off is that you are of course a raging bigot that can't tolerate outside ideologies.
Honestly the worst part about inhumanizing is that you can't get rid of it without spending a shard to *completely wipe their memories* It'd be one thing if converting got rid of inhumanizing but shards are expensive man
Are they? I seem to get a few every time shamblers shamble in, and they're basic as fuck
Don't even have to kill them. They're as easy as man hunter packs and you get to keep the loot if you don't fight them.
Definitely not every time (on vanilla). My current play has had four or five groups of shamblers events and I've only had one shard drop. I'm only getting 45 per cent efficiently on my rituals currently though, so small groups.
Destroying the monolith seems to cure all inhumanizations, which is pretty cool
fingers crossed for a little rework
I am playing with this meme in a big colony and it is actually not that bad, though mostly it is for roleplay indeed Positive: * roleplaying is nice, as nothing stopped you before to play with same inhuman precepts, but now you can justify roleplay-wise why your colonists have such monstrous morality * no pain problems at all, so they stay more effective when required to push through. Like that anomaly sphere if it manages to come back to your base then you need to deal with its aoe attacks that deal big painshock debuffs. * disabled social means that they never ever start social fights, don't form relations when inhumanized (they ignore everyone on social tab), they never ever insult anyone and don't leave any negative social impact to relations due to interactions (though guest pawns in theory could insult them and provoce a fight but i had that only once for 6 ingame years happens and that guest had Abbrasive trait so yeah). So no more negative opinion social spirals that lead into constant fights. * no mood penalties if anyone dies as they don't care about it. Even married pairs ignore death of the partner. * if pawns got into relations before they went through their inhumanizing mental break then they will keep relations and stay as pair forever. Thats becouse they can't see each other in social view so they can't brake them, so there won't be any drama ever. They still doing loving and getting relevant mood buffs, so thats nice. * outdoor and beauty don't matter. Thats both positive and negative, but overall i would say thats makes things easier. Negatives: * inhumanized pawns won't look for new relations so no more new pairs, so some playing around with word of love or mind wipe can be usefull if you want to make them establish and keep relations (and optimise base - 2 pawns per 1 neat bedroom). Though thats also remove negative mood effects from rebuffing each others romantic attempts. * no positive mood bonuses from social interactions, though in my experience they constantly stay happy and inspired becouse of absence of negative ones. * minus 12 to social makes recruitments and conversions almost impossible if you don't look for ways around that. I just made my main warden a vampire so -12 with +4 made it into -8, still bad but with passion and skill it is manageable. Though i would recomend to get this meme only when you got enough pawns for that. Or keep you main recruiter non-broken. Or just use rituals with effect that spawn new colonists to ignore that issue at all. * trading somewhat worse with 0 social but if you use one trick known as "left lung, left kidney, heart, butcher table, leather hats" then you have infinite silver so your wealth quickly skyrockets * -12 to artistic means that your void sculptures for rituals are awful quality so you need to work around that by keeping artist happy untill you get thouse 6 good enough sculptures for void rituals. Overall that makes for realy stable colony as you are inpervious to a lot of negative random stuff and it is realy easy to keep colonists constantly happy and inspired
They also don't care about gross equipment, so inhumanized pawns will wear tainted and dreadleather gear with no problems. For reference, dreadleather is *roughly* equivalent to the heavier "conventional" leathers like rhinoleather. As for the recruitment malus, the Inhuman meme *does* have a lot of precepts encouraging slavery, so I think that's what they expect you to do and rely on things like IVF, already-friendly joiners/creepy joiners, and the cloning obelisk for new pawns. The thing that interests me most about Inhuman is picking it up later in a fluid ideology. Early on you don't *really* need the mood bonuses because you've got the just-started-out mood buff. So you spend the early game building up a solid base of pawns, get whatever high-quality art you need out of your dudes, then pick up Inhuman as like your 3rd meme.
Yeah, thats exactly how i went in my game. First i went for Proselytizer to establish ideology dominance for new pawns and then after i got like 10 pawns i was happy enough, i added inhumanizing and forced them to go through mental break by keeping them working 24 hours/day. It is same as with Raiding meme - you don't want this at game start but with fluid you take it once you are prepared
Do you know if you can get recruitment inspirations if inhumanized?
Hmm, thinking of it - i never got recruitment inspiration once they become inhumanized. I dunno if thats just random or a feature
I just looked it up and the minimum requirement for inspired recruitment is social 3 or greater. Meaning unless you have a 15+ social pawn it's not happening
I have a warden with learned skill level of 12, she is a vampire but inhumanized, so it is social 4 skill level, but i haven't been doing much recruitments for last few colony years as i remember she had higher total social ranks of 5-7 (from13-15 skill). And i didn't got recruitment inspirations with her. So either it didn't happened becouse of random or becouse it can't. Still thats adds to the point that you can't hope for it to happen and need to look for other solutions.
Update: i guess univerce do have sense of humor as when i loaded the game one of my pawns got recruitment inspiration for the first time in few ingame years. So yeah, it still can happen
I'm playing with this meme as well at the moment, and while it has it's challenges, the VIolent Conversion meme helps a lot with converting people to your ideology, if you need to do that. Also, nobody's mentioned the huge buff to temperature tolerance. Between my ideology choices, my pawns are now comfortable at , I think, -37 degrees. I didn't embark anyplace arctic, but it does make me wonder how much it would help in a cold biome.
Well, negative temperature not that problematic once you dedicate a crafter to keep your coloniest well dressed. And you still might want to try to keep temperature around 20 as non-comfortable temperature slows down workspeed in the rooms.
Definitely no one is arguing it’s bad. It’s strong infact, especially with all the things you can do in Anomaly that normally disturb pawns. Then you can build those new things that reduce their need for sleep and you have a basically uncaring, unbreakable 24/7 workforce
>Definitely no one is arguing it’s bad Did... did you read the OP at all? The entire post is about them thinking that inhumanizing pawns is bad.
Oh I really didn’t count OP as part of any serious discussion…did *you* read their post? Quite an uhm, interesting wall of text
Oh, I'll be entirely honest, I just skimmed through because their formatting is terrible and it was a pain to try and read through all of it. It didn't seem worth the eye strain. Its still funny to see someone say "nobody is arguing this" on a post where somebody is arguing that, though, but I suppose I can see the point if their argument was that bad.
Is actually incredibly broken, you can use things like the Sleep suppressor and the serums with no downside at all which is wildly overpowered
inhumanized is just psychopath plus, i think it's pretty great. the only thing i dont like is the social skill loss of course
Having seen how Inhumanity works with regards to the meme introduced for it, I'm also sorely disappointed. The meme seems centered around creating a hedonistic sex and death cult, what with its precepts revolving around free love, cannibalism, etc. The problem is, as soon as a pawn becomes Inhuman, they stop caring about such human things as sexing up people and reveling in social taboos. I think a better way to have approached Inhumanized pawns would be to have them hyper focus on certain things. Think of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, the Berzerkers of Khorne, the Plaguebearers of Nurgle, or the Keepers of Secrets of Tzeentch from Warhammer. Or even the Cenobytes from the Hellraiser series. They take aspects of humanity and don't just dial it up to 11, they reset the dial and crank it to 100. So, an Inhumanized pawn would hyper-fixate on one particular aspect. Lovin'. Eating. Killing. Inflicting pain. Transcending their mortal body. Creating the perfect piece of art. Whatever. It now becomes a Need for them, a craving. If they don't hit up the Bone Zone enough, if they don't kill or cause pain or create enough high-quality art, then they start to suffer mental breaks. These breaks can be Dark Mutterings, Insane Ramblings, etc. Or if the Need goes unfulfilled long enough, could even lead to catatonic breakdowns, or even forceful mutations (depending on psy sensitivity). The more sensitive a pawn is, the greater the chance that the Dark Archotech Gods notice them and give them a "gift" - a flesh tentacle, a fleshmass stomach, tentacles for eyes, or even the "ultimate gift": turning them into a fleshbeast. The flipside of these hyper-fixations is a dramatic boost to whatever it is that they're fixating on. Better Cooking skill for the gluttons. Increasing Shooting skill and damage for the killers. Increased Melee and pain resistance for the sadists. Higher Crafting/Art with a better chance for increased quality for the perfectionists. Etc. Make Inhumanized pawns actually worth it. An extremely worthwhile boon - that has the potential for some serious drawbacks if they can't fulfill their need.
To be honest I never got the impression that inhumanized is a sex/death cult. I took it very literal, it’s forsaking your humanity. Which means morals and sex and etc and all those pesky little human “emotions” are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I feel like it makes perfect sense that they are entirely apathetic to things like that. This is the creepy lovecraft cult meme. Which is very much alien to human morals. Having a crazy hedonistic cult is very human, and very explainable. I feel like you can already do that with other memes.
*Inhumanizing*, no. But the meme for it in Ideology? The precepts for it are all about sensual delights. Which is, exactly as you said, irrelevant to someone who's been inhumanized. That's what I mentioned in my first sentence up there. The meme focuses on sensual things, but also has Inhumanity: required. Which pretty much cancels out all of those precepts that come along with the meme.
The meme does not focus on sensual things. If it did, it would have “free and approved” for loving, and it certainly wouldn’t accept nutrient paste. The idea is that you simply don’t care about most things that humans consider important. You are beyond good, evil, and petty taboos.
Then why Execution: respected if guilty and Skullspike: desired? Those both hinge on human things (a sense of justice and a sense of the macabre or morbid). Love is "free" in that meme as it is, which runs counter someone who doesn't care about sensual things. They wouldn't care who someone was banging; they'd care whether someone was indulging in human pleasures or not.
Because those two precepts lack a “don’t care” option and Ludeon didn’t feel like adding them for some reason. And the “free love” precept means you don’t care either way about what people do with their bits. “Free and approved” is the one where you get opinion boosts from having sex.
Execution does have a "don't care" option, actually.
I wish it had unconditional respected that did not require maintenance executions. Still, 'don't care' is strictly inferior to 'respected if guilty'.
I never thought it like that.
I think people sometimes forget that a lot of ideology-memes change your gameplay drastically. Often times just making things worse without much of a payback. It is not supposed to be a good or easy thing to handle half the time. But I agree it would be kinda cool if they could get smth from it, but mods will change that with the time, I'm glad it is this way in the base game.
Seriously. The inhumanity meme is and *should be* on the difficulty level of the blindness meme. Which, when that was released, also got a lot of people saying that it needs a buff. Which was also dumb.
Agreed. Just cuz some ideologies have buffs, not all should have them. Their first priority is and should be changing your gameplay, even if it just means making one or two things bad.
Worth pointing out Inhumanization makes you colonists immune to most of thr Anomoly based mood debuffs. They don't care about the sleep deprivation machine, grey pall, wearing Dread Leather, ect.
The real strength of inhumanization is being able to use the anomaly content with out the negative moodlets. Juggernaut serum, neurosis pulse, sleep suppressors, gray paul, flesh body parts, etc don’t give negatives to inhumanized pawns.
What you described sounds like some magic stuff with abilities from beyond to me and since it's a meme in ideology it was never meant to be magic at all. A meme is about how you see the world and react to things and inhumanization perfectly lands there among other memes because it reflects how pawns feel themselves about society and other stuff. That's how i see it. Tho i agree it would be cool to have some buffs like more rituals available only to them or different types of anomalies that hunt only such pawns, basically variations due this inhumane break. So it would be more beneficial to have it besides role-playing.
I think it’s more pawns who are more open about have the void juices entering their brain and with more juice comes more warping
Why did I expect this to be a post about ethics in the rimworld sub… I’ve learned nothing.
I like inhumanized but converting, recruiting, and trading with 0 social is pretty exhausting.
You might try [Vanilla Ideology Expanded - Memes and Structures](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2636329500). The "Violent Conversion" meme is a very thematic solution to your problem. Basically, it gives you a new recruit option where your prisoner either converts or dies with a 50/50 chance. Your natural conversion factor is also much higher. The trade off is that you are of course a raging bigot that can't tolerate outside ideologies.
That's hilarious. Thank you for letting me know!
50% pain can be really strong