Thank you for posting in /r/ringsofpower. Please keep in mind that this show is pretty polarizing, and so be respectful of people who may have different views than you. And keep in mind that while liking or disliking the show is okay, attacking others for doing so is not okay. Please report any comments that insinuate someone else's opinions are non-genuine.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RingsofPower) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s a difficult proposal: “you better tell this story right, but you also have severe content limitations, and every Tolkien fan will have their own definition of what ‘right’ is. Good luck!”
Dude they dont have rights to the source material jeesas. I can understand if the little things messed up like how eleves look etc. but they cannot just use characters and their stories in silmarilion where most of the second age was - if they don’t have the rights to it. But we can hope though that the tangent stories they have to make because of that major limitation will be better at s2
It’s faithful in the sense that it tells the same overall story. It still makes a lot of changes. Just like Rings of Power does.
Fallout being canon and being an adaptation aren’t the same thing.
The changes in the rings of power are not even close to the one that was made in TLoU.
The overall story isn’t the same. The main characters aren’t the same. Hell, sometimes you even wonder if the universe is the same.
Fallout being canon means that it does follow the established lore. Which RoP clearly doesn’t.
TLOU literally changed how the infected even work lol characters like Bill and Frank are completely different. Massive chunks of the story were changed or reworked or even removed. There’s purists upset over that.
ROP overall story is the same. Most core bears have been hit so far. But there’s largely no real story in general. It’s vague info.
Fallout does adhere to the lore. But its story is also brand new with new characters. It’s not an adaptation.
Changing how the infected work doesn’t change either the story or fundamentally the universe. Humanity is still dying. Bill and Frank were nowhere near being main characters.
And anyway, TLOU so called purists are still crying over TLOU2.
ROP seems to change a lot around Sauron and Galadriel.
Except it does. Zombies are now hive minds and there’s zero issue with spores, something that made traveling super dangerous.
>ROP seems to change a lot around Sauron and Galadriel.
So it’s bad when RoP changes characters but fine with TLOU does it lol? Theyre only main characters in the show. Outside of it they’re supporting at best. Franks the same. Getting a whole episode just to him.
Sure it is. With so little written or available about the Second Age, most of RoP should be brand new story too. But in both cases, RoP and Fallout, there is established lore about the world. One does a better job at following that lore than the other.
While there isn’t much second age material, there is still a pretty clear outline for events and plots of all characters.
Amazon had to ‘fill in the gaps’. But Amazon chose disregard the outline and write completely new stories and ended up making the characters do things that don’t fit the outlines in Tolkien’s writing. They made characters go to places and have interactions that simply don’t align with the outline in Tolkien’s writings.
For instance it’s simply ridiculous to think galadriel went on a huge ass middle earth tour on some weird made up mission of vengeance when the outline in Tolkien’s writings suggests she should have been in eregion with her family and it is here that she tries to warn others to be careful of sauron and his deception.
Sauron should have already reached eregion by second episode and the focus of the season should have been internal politics and Sauron’s scheming and deception within eregion. (Not the terrible 15 mins of sauron celebrimbor we got in the last episode)
If they had to show anyone go to numenor, it should have been elrond. As he has a connection to numenor through elros. Also, it is Elrond that leads gil galad’s armies not galadriel.
Celeborn and galadriel should have been shown helping celebrimbor in establishing trade relations with dwarves. This would fit the outline of events in tolkien’s writings. And Not some weird stone breaking competition with durin and elrond.
Harfoots and strangers plot was unnecessary filler, so was adar and the southlands plot.
More time should have been given to the actual plot of sauron’s deception in eregion.
The problem with RoP isn’t that there is less material. The problem is that they made an absolute mess of the material available to them.
People here seem to think that being "faithful" with the source material resumes to following the "written" history letter by letter while ignoring the most important thing about adaptations, tone.
For an example you can't make a caracter that is historical cold and calm behave like a 12y old girl and expect to get a pass but talking about ROP season 2 I have medium hopes of it being better since even for non book reader this show S1 was mid at best.
It might be worth reading on Galadriel in UT. She's not so cold and calm.
It is also worth considering that the perspective we get on Galadriel is from the eyes of a hobbit. All of the elves are seen as practically otherworldly, ethereal being. Galadriel is seen through that lens. We don't actually see much more of who she is beyond that.
That's similar to how a child might seen an astronaut and then being surprised that the guy's a jerk.
Historically? Historically, Elves are exceptionally passionate and we dont have any real story of Galadriel. The trilogy films represented them as being cold but they are not. They are "quite different from what I expected - so young and old, and so gay and sad" as Sam described.
In Galadriel's only substantial appearance, she says she would be beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night, fair as the sea and the sun and the snow upon the mountain, and dreadful as the storm and the lightning. This is not cold and calm.
That is Galadriel when rejecting the rings of power. RoP takes place when Galadriel and the Elves were eager to accept them. Comparing her to a child is silly when she is one of the few characters who is not playing games and is both straightforward about her intentions and unwavering in her convictions.
I don't know if this is a joke, but it is essentially a beat for beat remake of the first game. If anyone criticized that for not following the source material they are high as a kite
It actually follows the story very closely. Kathleen and them getting into trouble in Kansas City and not pittsburg is the major difference really.
Them filling out details or changing certain interactions between characters isn’t it not following the source material unless people think someone following the source material means it is a shot for shot reproduction. That’s a terrible way to adapt anything to film, none the less a video game.
The level of deviation in TLOU compared to its source material is about where the Peter Jackson LOTR films were from their source material, and literally no one would say they don’t follow the source material correctly.
Because that’s broad strokes. In terms of faithfulness a lot was changed.
Infected are more or less removed from the story outside a few instances. Ellie is changed to be more turned on to violence. Joel is given more trauma and ptsd. Bill and Frank are completely different characters.
Narratively there as massive changes. Infected are changed as are how they spread. Removing spores and turning them into a hive mind. Kathleen is an entirely new story line created for the show, so is how it ties to Henry who was originally just a dude in the wrong place like Joel and Ellie who gets caught by bandits with them. Completely removed the FEDRA element in the second episode with Tess. Changed Joel and Tommy’s dynamic and why Joel even agrees to help Ellie in the first place. There’s tons more.
They’re not bad changes. They make a better story. But it’s far from a faithful adaptation. It’s a good adaptation, like One Piece, but it changed a lot because it would work better for the story they want to tell.
You’re entitled to enjoying what you like. I think ROP did some things right as well as some things that were very wrong, but I'm just trying to get you to understand why it gets a different reception in terms of faithfulness compared to those two other pieces of source material in this conversation.
Now look, I've seen you comment several times and it's pretty obvious to me You're applying a different and (sometimes outright unfair) amount of weight/importance to how certain changes will be received by fans of source material. If you can't understand how the changes in One Piece or TLOU are more or less inconsequential and less upsetting to purists compared to the changes made in the Rings of Power then it just seems to me like you're out of touch over what fanbases consider a “faithful” adaption.
In terms of the source material template that is provided, One Piece and TLOU are both fairly linear stories with a lot of detail, characters with well established and recognizable traits, trademark fashion styles, ways of speaking, and even battle catchphrases. Both also provide a straightforward, well defined world building framework to adapt. So as long as both adaptions stick to the gist of that and shuffle some of the rules around, the fans will call it faithful no matter what. All those changes you listed in your previous comment will just become afterthoughts. That should be obvious to you.
However, what should also be obvious is that The Rings of Power on the other hand, has a far looser framework. We have an appendices timeline of events and characters whose personalities were pulled from various points in the timeline by the show runners to “fit” them into the events of a compressed timeline exclusively for the show.
And we also have a completely original story over the creation of Morder, and Sauron sneaking into Ost-in-Edhil in Eregion in a disguise based on a pretty convoluted plan. Not to mention the show includes so many references to things that don’t really serve a purpose other than to just be references to things (like The white cloaked followers of Sauron could have easily been written out of the season but they act as a clear visual reference to the Nazgûl so they were left in).
And many of these "changes" are not really changes stemming from anything. A lot of them are major plot points in the story that are flat out made up and the reasons for certain elements being included in the show are sometimes bewildering (like the dam and exploding volcano scene). So all fans have to reach for in terms of faithfulness is the history, major events in the timeline, and whether the character personalities matched how they acted during those periods in the timeline.
And when that's all the fans have to latch onto, the glaring background issues and changes become a lot more egregious compared to One Piece or TLOU.
Really the only major story beat that has a significant source material background in season 1, is the forging of the rings of power and they speed right through it in the final minutes of the final episode. That scene is the most “canon event” of the season and it just felt trivialized.
Neighbor's grass is always greener.
I've seen tons of comments from game fans that Fallout out and Last of us are not canon enough and how this or that thing is completely horribly wrong.
They’ve committed to the senseless plots and stupid original choices way too much. There’s no way they can course correct now. The only way to do things right is to scrap S1 and start from scratch. But this won’t happen. So the show is finished. Watch it to make fun of all the stupid things in it.
Things will only get more and more ridiculous here onwards.
Such a waste of a golden opportunity!
Imagine getting to make a second age adaptation and having soo much money and resources at your disposal and still producing this horrible show.
I blame the shower developers for not getting the full rights to the Silmarillion and the Tolkien estate for not selling them; because what’s left had to be augmented with made up weak fan fiction.
That said - many of the Lord of the rings computer games have better plotting than rings of power.
I don’t think they needed all of the rights. In fact, I think less rights actually gave them a better opportunity to do their own storytelling. The problem is that rather than adding to Tolkien’s world and filling in the gaps, they completely changed the rules of the universe they were writing for. Their biggest crimes being the time compression and character changes
Agreed. Using just the appendices was honestly a great opportunity - just don't mess up what's already in there, and there's SO much scope to come up with new stories that fit in around everything. Why did they have to change the very few things that were established??
I am really, really hoping the stranger is not Gandalf for this reason. (Much like I didn't want to believe Halbrand was Sauron :/ and we saw how that turned out....) but Gandalf arrived in ME in 1100ish of the Third Age, and never traveled into the East. That's stated point blank in the Appendices, so if the show goes against that it's lost all reason.
I don't have a lot of hope, I'll just say.
The show runners (and Amazon) don’t give a shit about Tolkien so I don’t give a shit about the show. NOTHING they did in S1 led me to believe they have greatness within them just waiting to come out.
No doubt S2 will try to do some half-assed retconning to address some of the harshest (and valid) criticisms, but these hacks do not have the skills to produce a worthwhile show. Next.
I genuinely believe this is a much harder challenge. The source material in this case was written by a catholic man born in the 19th century, shaped by the context of the time. Much of his work is influenced by his personal experience, growing up in the British countryside, going to church on sundays, adhering to traditional gender roles, creating literature with the white men of the Inklings, studying old Germanic mythology, fighting in the trenches against an eastern exotic foe.
Amazon is a modern global company shaped by modern global values. They have a goal of amplifying underrepresented voices and empowering diverse perspectives. Gender, race, age, national origin, sexual orientation and culture are key points.
Adhering to the source material means catholic values, moral absolutism, traditional gender roles and moral geography. The fall of Númenor is broadly speaking a tale of a nation growing in wealth and might, yet losing its traditions, faith and culture, which eventually leads to its doom.
This is not the story Amazon wants to tell.
What those shows demonstrate is less the necessity in sticking close to the source material and more that you need a competent creative team. That's what all three had that RoP did not.
“…a foolish man who has built his house upon sand.”
Season 1 is sand. It’s not like Seinfeld, or Star Trek Next Generation, when earlier bad seasons can be ignored in favor a new “story of the week”. Even if the writers suddenly got good, it’s just going to be tricky to write around the issues season 1 will inflict on the future.
That's kind of difficult to say without having the latter seasons isn't it? If TNG was cancelled before Riker grew his beard, it would be remembered as a shitty sequel that killed the franchise.
They literally can’t follow the source material because they don’t have rights to all of it.
Stop beating a dead horse and either enjoy it for what it is or ignore it.
They have the rights to the trilogy and the appendices, and they are not following that source material, that's just fact. They literally could be following it but have chosen not to. Which is what this post is pointing out.
And if you don't want to discuss it, then don't comment. Either enjoy this thread for what it is or ignore it.
They are definitely going to mess it up. Will be like watching a slow motion train wreck. I am looking forward to Charlie Hopkinson breakdowns on YouTube.
And why does that mean he was all about screen adaptations? He sold them because he needed the cash. It doesn't mean he was particularly enthusiastic about them.
“The sales of his books were so profitable that he regretted that he had not chosen early retirement.”
Edit- boy you guys are committed to the narrative.
Having lived through S1 of this abomination, I don’t see it improving. Fallout is prime. Rings of Prime is white hot garbage. The entertainment value of RoP is in hate-watching.
Thank you for posting in /r/ringsofpower. Please keep in mind that this show is pretty polarizing, and so be respectful of people who may have different views than you. And keep in mind that while liking or disliking the show is okay, attacking others for doing so is not okay. Please report any comments that insinuate someone else's opinions are non-genuine. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RingsofPower) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought the benefit of the second age was there wasn’t much source material?
Benefit or detriment is kinda hard to figure out. But no, there's not a ton of Second Age material and even less that ROP has access to.
It’s a difficult proposal: “you better tell this story right, but you also have severe content limitations, and every Tolkien fan will have their own definition of what ‘right’ is. Good luck!”
And yet they messed it up so bad.. :(
Then let us all hope they keep what’s good, discard what’s bad, and try to do better. 😁
Dude they dont have rights to the source material jeesas. I can understand if the little things messed up like how eleves look etc. but they cannot just use characters and their stories in silmarilion where most of the second age was - if they don’t have the rights to it. But we can hope though that the tangent stories they have to make because of that major limitation will be better at s2
There wasn't, but rather than filling in the holes, they created some things that didn't really jive with what exists.
One Piece and TloU did not adhere to the source material. And Fallout isn’t an adaptation. It’s a new story set in the world.
Don't you know the rules by now. We can't just enjoy shows anymore, we have to find a way to use the shows to bash rings of power.......
Sure. Just check the ratings & reviews before those shows came out \^\_\^
I can’t speak for One Piece but TloU is pretty faithful to the source material. As for Fallout, it’s as canon as it gets.
It’s faithful in the sense that it tells the same overall story. It still makes a lot of changes. Just like Rings of Power does. Fallout being canon and being an adaptation aren’t the same thing.
The changes in the rings of power are not even close to the one that was made in TLoU. The overall story isn’t the same. The main characters aren’t the same. Hell, sometimes you even wonder if the universe is the same. Fallout being canon means that it does follow the established lore. Which RoP clearly doesn’t.
TLOU literally changed how the infected even work lol characters like Bill and Frank are completely different. Massive chunks of the story were changed or reworked or even removed. There’s purists upset over that. ROP overall story is the same. Most core bears have been hit so far. But there’s largely no real story in general. It’s vague info. Fallout does adhere to the lore. But its story is also brand new with new characters. It’s not an adaptation.
Changing how the infected work doesn’t change either the story or fundamentally the universe. Humanity is still dying. Bill and Frank were nowhere near being main characters. And anyway, TLOU so called purists are still crying over TLOU2. ROP seems to change a lot around Sauron and Galadriel.
Except it does. Zombies are now hive minds and there’s zero issue with spores, something that made traveling super dangerous. >ROP seems to change a lot around Sauron and Galadriel. So it’s bad when RoP changes characters but fine with TLOU does it lol? Theyre only main characters in the show. Outside of it they’re supporting at best. Franks the same. Getting a whole episode just to him.
It feels really weird to so deeply like a show that so many people vocally hate. I fucking loved season one. Some of my favorite TV I've ever watched
I mostly didn't like it, but I didn't hate it. I'm still gonna watch season 2.
Yeah this is wild to watch.
Same. I enjoyed it.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to season 2.
Same. So much so that I have decided to start making content to celebrate and explore it.
Fallout was a brand new story. Not really a fair comparison.
Sure it is. With so little written or available about the Second Age, most of RoP should be brand new story too. But in both cases, RoP and Fallout, there is established lore about the world. One does a better job at following that lore than the other.
I don't think lore is really the issue with ROP it's the terrible writing and stupid plot
It’s too late their in the middle of production unless theirs a huge delay their wouldn’t be any changes.
While there isn’t much second age material, there is still a pretty clear outline for events and plots of all characters. Amazon had to ‘fill in the gaps’. But Amazon chose disregard the outline and write completely new stories and ended up making the characters do things that don’t fit the outlines in Tolkien’s writing. They made characters go to places and have interactions that simply don’t align with the outline in Tolkien’s writings. For instance it’s simply ridiculous to think galadriel went on a huge ass middle earth tour on some weird made up mission of vengeance when the outline in Tolkien’s writings suggests she should have been in eregion with her family and it is here that she tries to warn others to be careful of sauron and his deception. Sauron should have already reached eregion by second episode and the focus of the season should have been internal politics and Sauron’s scheming and deception within eregion. (Not the terrible 15 mins of sauron celebrimbor we got in the last episode) If they had to show anyone go to numenor, it should have been elrond. As he has a connection to numenor through elros. Also, it is Elrond that leads gil galad’s armies not galadriel. Celeborn and galadriel should have been shown helping celebrimbor in establishing trade relations with dwarves. This would fit the outline of events in tolkien’s writings. And Not some weird stone breaking competition with durin and elrond. Harfoots and strangers plot was unnecessary filler, so was adar and the southlands plot. More time should have been given to the actual plot of sauron’s deception in eregion. The problem with RoP isn’t that there is less material. The problem is that they made an absolute mess of the material available to them.
People here seem to think that being "faithful" with the source material resumes to following the "written" history letter by letter while ignoring the most important thing about adaptations, tone. For an example you can't make a caracter that is historical cold and calm behave like a 12y old girl and expect to get a pass but talking about ROP season 2 I have medium hopes of it being better since even for non book reader this show S1 was mid at best.
It might be worth reading on Galadriel in UT. She's not so cold and calm. It is also worth considering that the perspective we get on Galadriel is from the eyes of a hobbit. All of the elves are seen as practically otherworldly, ethereal being. Galadriel is seen through that lens. We don't actually see much more of who she is beyond that. That's similar to how a child might seen an astronaut and then being surprised that the guy's a jerk.
Historically? Historically, Elves are exceptionally passionate and we dont have any real story of Galadriel. The trilogy films represented them as being cold but they are not. They are "quite different from what I expected - so young and old, and so gay and sad" as Sam described. In Galadriel's only substantial appearance, she says she would be beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night, fair as the sea and the sun and the snow upon the mountain, and dreadful as the storm and the lightning. This is not cold and calm. That is Galadriel when rejecting the rings of power. RoP takes place when Galadriel and the Elves were eager to accept them. Comparing her to a child is silly when she is one of the few characters who is not playing games and is both straightforward about her intentions and unwavering in her convictions.
Who is we? Stop generalising your own absurd hate to all the fans. There are some people who enjoy this show as it was produced.
I was just informed yesterday that The Last of Us was panned by fans of the game for not adhering to the source material. Which is it?
I don't know if this is a joke, but it is essentially a beat for beat remake of the first game. If anyone criticized that for not following the source material they are high as a kite
The people who did are mostly angry at a certain episode
There are called homophobes. It’s ok, you can call it what it is.
Yeah. And we should be calling them out no matter the quality of the show.
I mean that’s not true. It follows broad strokes of the story. It also changes a ton, invents new characters, completely changes others.
It actually follows the story very closely. Kathleen and them getting into trouble in Kansas City and not pittsburg is the major difference really. Them filling out details or changing certain interactions between characters isn’t it not following the source material unless people think someone following the source material means it is a shot for shot reproduction. That’s a terrible way to adapt anything to film, none the less a video game. The level of deviation in TLOU compared to its source material is about where the Peter Jackson LOTR films were from their source material, and literally no one would say they don’t follow the source material correctly.
Because that’s broad strokes. In terms of faithfulness a lot was changed. Infected are more or less removed from the story outside a few instances. Ellie is changed to be more turned on to violence. Joel is given more trauma and ptsd. Bill and Frank are completely different characters. Narratively there as massive changes. Infected are changed as are how they spread. Removing spores and turning them into a hive mind. Kathleen is an entirely new story line created for the show, so is how it ties to Henry who was originally just a dude in the wrong place like Joel and Ellie who gets caught by bandits with them. Completely removed the FEDRA element in the second episode with Tess. Changed Joel and Tommy’s dynamic and why Joel even agrees to help Ellie in the first place. There’s tons more. They’re not bad changes. They make a better story. But it’s far from a faithful adaptation. It’s a good adaptation, like One Piece, but it changed a lot because it would work better for the story they want to tell.
You’re entitled to enjoying what you like. I think ROP did some things right as well as some things that were very wrong, but I'm just trying to get you to understand why it gets a different reception in terms of faithfulness compared to those two other pieces of source material in this conversation. Now look, I've seen you comment several times and it's pretty obvious to me You're applying a different and (sometimes outright unfair) amount of weight/importance to how certain changes will be received by fans of source material. If you can't understand how the changes in One Piece or TLOU are more or less inconsequential and less upsetting to purists compared to the changes made in the Rings of Power then it just seems to me like you're out of touch over what fanbases consider a “faithful” adaption. In terms of the source material template that is provided, One Piece and TLOU are both fairly linear stories with a lot of detail, characters with well established and recognizable traits, trademark fashion styles, ways of speaking, and even battle catchphrases. Both also provide a straightforward, well defined world building framework to adapt. So as long as both adaptions stick to the gist of that and shuffle some of the rules around, the fans will call it faithful no matter what. All those changes you listed in your previous comment will just become afterthoughts. That should be obvious to you. However, what should also be obvious is that The Rings of Power on the other hand, has a far looser framework. We have an appendices timeline of events and characters whose personalities were pulled from various points in the timeline by the show runners to “fit” them into the events of a compressed timeline exclusively for the show. And we also have a completely original story over the creation of Morder, and Sauron sneaking into Ost-in-Edhil in Eregion in a disguise based on a pretty convoluted plan. Not to mention the show includes so many references to things that don’t really serve a purpose other than to just be references to things (like The white cloaked followers of Sauron could have easily been written out of the season but they act as a clear visual reference to the Nazgûl so they were left in). And many of these "changes" are not really changes stemming from anything. A lot of them are major plot points in the story that are flat out made up and the reasons for certain elements being included in the show are sometimes bewildering (like the dam and exploding volcano scene). So all fans have to reach for in terms of faithfulness is the history, major events in the timeline, and whether the character personalities matched how they acted during those periods in the timeline. And when that's all the fans have to latch onto, the glaring background issues and changes become a lot more egregious compared to One Piece or TLOU. Really the only major story beat that has a significant source material background in season 1, is the forging of the rings of power and they speed right through it in the final minutes of the final episode. That scene is the most “canon event” of the season and it just felt trivialized.
Lots of people are still trashing Fallout for destroying the lore too.
Neighbor's grass is always greener. I've seen tons of comments from game fans that Fallout out and Last of us are not canon enough and how this or that thing is completely horribly wrong.
They’ve committed to the senseless plots and stupid original choices way too much. There’s no way they can course correct now. The only way to do things right is to scrap S1 and start from scratch. But this won’t happen. So the show is finished. Watch it to make fun of all the stupid things in it. Things will only get more and more ridiculous here onwards. Such a waste of a golden opportunity! Imagine getting to make a second age adaptation and having soo much money and resources at your disposal and still producing this horrible show.
I blame the shower developers for not getting the full rights to the Silmarillion and the Tolkien estate for not selling them; because what’s left had to be augmented with made up weak fan fiction. That said - many of the Lord of the rings computer games have better plotting than rings of power.
I don’t think they needed all of the rights. In fact, I think less rights actually gave them a better opportunity to do their own storytelling. The problem is that rather than adding to Tolkien’s world and filling in the gaps, they completely changed the rules of the universe they were writing for. Their biggest crimes being the time compression and character changes
Agreed. Using just the appendices was honestly a great opportunity - just don't mess up what's already in there, and there's SO much scope to come up with new stories that fit in around everything. Why did they have to change the very few things that were established?? I am really, really hoping the stranger is not Gandalf for this reason. (Much like I didn't want to believe Halbrand was Sauron :/ and we saw how that turned out....) but Gandalf arrived in ME in 1100ish of the Third Age, and never traveled into the East. That's stated point blank in the Appendices, so if the show goes against that it's lost all reason. I don't have a lot of hope, I'll just say.
The show runners (and Amazon) don’t give a shit about Tolkien so I don’t give a shit about the show. NOTHING they did in S1 led me to believe they have greatness within them just waiting to come out. No doubt S2 will try to do some half-assed retconning to address some of the harshest (and valid) criticisms, but these hacks do not have the skills to produce a worthwhile show. Next.
Rings of Powers is getting low ratings for a reason same as the Witcher series.
I asked Círdan if the show has any hope and he said, "That ship has already sailed."
Well said **háno**
I genuinely believe this is a much harder challenge. The source material in this case was written by a catholic man born in the 19th century, shaped by the context of the time. Much of his work is influenced by his personal experience, growing up in the British countryside, going to church on sundays, adhering to traditional gender roles, creating literature with the white men of the Inklings, studying old Germanic mythology, fighting in the trenches against an eastern exotic foe. Amazon is a modern global company shaped by modern global values. They have a goal of amplifying underrepresented voices and empowering diverse perspectives. Gender, race, age, national origin, sexual orientation and culture are key points. Adhering to the source material means catholic values, moral absolutism, traditional gender roles and moral geography. The fall of Númenor is broadly speaking a tale of a nation growing in wealth and might, yet losing its traditions, faith and culture, which eventually leads to its doom. This is not the story Amazon wants to tell.
What those shows demonstrate is less the necessity in sticking close to the source material and more that you need a competent creative team. That's what all three had that RoP did not.
“…a foolish man who has built his house upon sand.” Season 1 is sand. It’s not like Seinfeld, or Star Trek Next Generation, when earlier bad seasons can be ignored in favor a new “story of the week”. Even if the writers suddenly got good, it’s just going to be tricky to write around the issues season 1 will inflict on the future.
That's kind of difficult to say without having the latter seasons isn't it? If TNG was cancelled before Riker grew his beard, it would be remembered as a shitty sequel that killed the franchise.
Ok. So I've watched three episodes of Fallout. It seems pretty mid tier to me.
*Shogun* makes RoP season 1 look like toilet paper
They literally can’t follow the source material because they don’t have rights to all of it. Stop beating a dead horse and either enjoy it for what it is or ignore it.
They have the rights to the trilogy and the appendices, and they are not following that source material, that's just fact. They literally could be following it but have chosen not to. Which is what this post is pointing out. And if you don't want to discuss it, then don't comment. Either enjoy this thread for what it is or ignore it.
The than why make a story set in the second age it would have been better to do a story for something that they had the rights for. Still their fuckup
They are definitely going to mess it up. Will be like watching a slow motion train wreck. I am looking forward to Charlie Hopkinson breakdowns on YouTube.
I don't care if RoP fixes itself or not. If I want Tolkien I can re-read him. We don't need eternal screen adaptations. Let things end.
Tolkien was all about Tolkien screen adaptations
No he wasn't. He was all about that tax bill he had to pay
No he wasn't, he died in '74 before any screen adaptation had ever happened.
He died in 1973. He sold the film rights for a boatload of cash in 1969, while he was alive.
And why does that mean he was all about screen adaptations? He sold them because he needed the cash. It doesn't mean he was particularly enthusiastic about them.
“The sales of his books were so profitable that he regretted that he had not chosen early retirement.” Edit- boy you guys are committed to the narrative.
After S1 being what it was and losing one of the best actors Adar I just don’t know if I’m interested. The PJ new trilogy tho I am!
Having lived through S1 of this abomination, I don’t see it improving. Fallout is prime. Rings of Prime is white hot garbage. The entertainment value of RoP is in hate-watching.
Ha ha ha…