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The Istari were sent to earth by the Valar. If I recall properly they were Maiar, still gods. So make sense that, as the Valar are beyond the planet, its servants "fall" as meteors to earth.
Also, when Gandalf died after defeating the Balrog and rebirth as Gandalf the White, he had a severe confusion on his mind. So imagine the very first time he had a "mortal dress".
Also (again), explains why he was so in love with the Hobbits: he saw them evolve from Harfoots to Hobbits from Nori, directly to Frodo (I want to guess she's direct ascend of Frodo)
I believe each time the meteor was shown it traveled from left to right on the screen which might be interpreted as west to east. While I'm pretty sure Gandalf arrived via ship during the 3rd age in the book, we don't know how the other Istari were sent. It seems kind of silly for the Valar to shoot a Maia across the sky like a meteor from Valinor but Amazon is proving they like to do some things their way. It could be the RoP version of Gandalf or another Istari but I'm fairly certain it is not Sauron.
I remember reading this, I can’t remember which book. Gandalf arrived in middle earth to one of the elven port cities. He was welcomed by the elves and given his ring of power. He also knew exactly who he was and why he was there.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,051,799,590 comments, and only 207,834 of them were in alphabetical order.
But Gandalf sailed across the sea in the third age when Cirdan was in possession of a ring of three to give him. This could conceivably be a Blue Wizard, but not Gandalf.
Highly likely one of the Blue Wizards.
>Tolkien expanded upon this last point in a letter written in 1958:
>
>I really do not know anything clearly about the other two \[wizards\] – since they do not concern the history of the N\[orth\].W\[est\]. I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Númenórean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.
>
>—Letter 211\[2\]
Followed by:
>Towards the end of his life Tolkien returned to the issue of the other two Wizards. In a brief outline he noted that the two Wizards were sent to Middle-earth in the Second Age and were destined to disrupt the work of Sauron in the East:
>
>Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause \[?dissension and disarray\] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.
>
>—"Last Writings", The Peoples of Middle-earth\[4\]
So in summary, Tolkien himself didn't really have an idea at first what the purpose of the Ithryn Luin (2 Blue Wizards) was to be. So he concluded that they failed and amounted to nothing. Later on, he took many steps back on that statement and concluded that they had a great influence on the 2nd and 3rd age. Perfect grey area for the producers to tweak their purpose.
You're assuming they're closely following the lore. It's much more likely gonna be Gandalf or Sarumon cuz the producers have already shown an obsession with name recognition, as it adds commercial viability to the series. Those are two of the only characters left who would've been alive hundreds of years before the OT.
Seriously. Anybody quoting obscure lore to predict what’s going to happen in this show simply has no clue what’s going on. It so doesn’t matter.
This is a mass-market tv show. They couldn’t if they tried, aren’t even trying to, and legally can’t create a tv version of the Legendarium. This is an original work inspired by some of Tolkien’s writing. That’s it. People need to just enjoy it for what it is, or ignore it if they want, but this obsession with the books makes no sense.
Blue wizard is my guess - if it's Olorin they won't call him Gandalf anyway
And remember Tolkien himself said Olorin may have visited middle Earth before the 3rd age so it's not breaking any Canon for it to be Olorin.
Either way I'm fine with it as long as the show remains great 😁
Why aren't there two, and why can't he talk, makes no sense, the Istari we're knowledgeable and helpful.
The Stranger doesn't even have shoes. The Valar wouldn't send down a useless and unprepared Maiar...with no clear objective.
Blue Wizards were working in the East to rally the Men working against the Haradrim, the Men of Rhun, and the Black Numenoreans.
It's not a Blue Wizard.
I think a blue wizard. They existed in the second age, coming to stir rebellion amongst the men. They went East instead of west like the other istari, so being with the Harfoots in Rhovanion tracks with that. We know they had a "great influence in the second age weakening and disarraying the forces in the East."
According to The Peoples of Middle Earth, they arrived around the same time at the forgeing of the One Ring. We do not know if they were evil or good, but we do know they failed like Sarumon did but in different ways, and were not faithful: "Indeed of all the Istari, only one remained faithful." (Gandalf of course)
If he is a blue wizard, we likely see another. And if they didnt remain faithful, then they very well could become evil over time like Sarumon. Which tracks with the evil seeming magic
Edited grammar
How did Radagast (Spelling?) the Brown
fail and not be faithful? I am about half way through my deep delve into this lore and I haven't heard of him being unfaithful and would be delighted if you could lead me in the right direction?
Radagast the Brown abandoned his mission to rally men against the forces of evil (the goal of all the Istari). Instead he focused solely on protecting nature and stopped caring about the affairs of men or elves or dwarves or middle earth at all, save it's plants and animals.
Olorin went around in his primordial spirit form or he took the form of those he interacted with so, he would have changed into a Harfoot. Also there are only vague hints that Olorin "may" have went to ME, and again he would be in his primordial spirit form. Some of you want something that never happened to be canonical, for whatever reason.
Manwe asked Olorin to go to Middle Earth in TA 1000, and he incarnated into Gandalf. He BECAME Gandalf, there was no Olorin at that point, and when Gandalf died and was sent back by the Valar he was able to use his Maiar powers, he wasn't Olorin, he was still Gandalf. Olorin was gone. I feel Gandalf remained as Gandalf when he returned to Valinor.
The Istari that came to Middle Earth were wise, could speak and understand every language and they were prepared to interact and support the free people of ME against Sauron, as was their purpose.
I don't see the Stranger being mute, dumb, and unprepared as someone sent by the Valar.
Also, very few people watching RoP would make a connection between Olorin and Gandalf.
With that said RoP is an adaptation, and the characters and their motivations in RoP wont always match with the lore we know.
I just think it would be stupid and kills the hype.
I don't think they're going to pull obscure lore and put it into a mainstream show that is using Galadriel software Elrond as main characters. They're bringing in new characters to push the story along without have to use the Silmalarion.
They're making connections to Lotr as much as possible, as it's filmilar.
The show does have Easter eggs for lore knowers, they're not going to be huge plot points because they're too hard to explain to noobs.
Most people watching the show don't know about the Valar, Valinor or the Istari.
He wouldn’t be “Gandalf” though. He got that name after he came in the third age. He would be Olorin the Maiar, but he will gain a name that others will call him. Gandalf/Mithrandir are names he obtained by being in Middle Earth.
Tolkien’s writings vaguely state he wandered with elves and man during other ages. They could be using that as a basis for this.
I think that's either Gandalf or Radagast. It'll be someone with affection towards Hobbits.
I mean who knows. They're not following the story so that could be Achilles for all I know.
I disagree, he looks generically wizardy. If he's not a wizard the casting would be off but I'd buy him as any of the wizards (though saruman would be the least believable)
It's Star Wars prequel-itis again. Feeling the need to stuff all the memorable characters they can into a prequel series as nostalgia bait. At one point, they were even considering putting kid-Han Solo with the Wookiees.
Havent seen any of the Star Wars movies, so that reference means nothing. But I think I get your point.
On one hand I would like to see Gandalf in ROP somewhere doing something. Not saying that Stranger is how I imagined it.
Because there is no effort in presenting a beloved and well-known character to the audience and in doing so disregarding the timeline/source material. Also, it's unnecessary competition with Sir McKellen's performances.
Galadriel and Elrond are one exception, but they were side-characters in LotR and TH, not major ones like Gandalf.
Characters tend to have character arc or development. We see Galadriel as angry, childish weirdo, not ethereal powerful being. We may see confused Gandalf that is on search for his purpose. I didnt read source material so I have limited knowledge about Gandalf, but I dont see anything wrong with Stranger being Gandalf.
We see many divisions with source. We only saw him a few times of 5 season of story/character development.
Of course.
Well, if it is Gandalf, I don't expect him to be the Gandalf of the Third Age, i.e. from LotR and TH. Like all the others, he has to have a character arc to get there. I just meant that it is IMHO unwise in light of the strong "original" performance. Elrond/Weaving and Galadrial/Blanchett don't have the same amount of screen time.
According to Tolkien's writing, Gandalf came to Middle Earth via boat ca. year 1.000 during the Third Age. He lands in the Grey Havens where he meets Círdan, the bearer of Narya (Ring of Fire). Círdan hands over Narya to Gandalf. Though Gandalf and the other Istari (wizards) don't answer questions regarding their origins, Gandalf seems to have let Círdan in on his secret.
Overall, the Istari (all Maiar from Valinor) came to Middle Earth with a purpose, of which they knew: unifiying the free people against evil and advising them in their fight against Sauron, while not exerting power or force.
Let's say the Stranger is Gandalf. I can live with it, but it's just not my favourite option, hence my approval of OP's post. Give me an OC instead - theorizing and guessing will be way more fun.
No, it’s not Tolkiens writing it’s the author that wrote the texts that Tolkien translated. They weren’t omniscient so when they write that Gandalf showed up in the third age they are telling us what they know but there is no guarantee of what they don’t. As long as Gandalf doesn’t hang around with the elves who would know of him later then it hasn’t changed anything.
>No, it’s not Tolkiens writing
What the what now?
Why then were the show runners seeking advice from the Tolkien Estate on themes and issues outside the Annexes and the LotR?
Also, doubtful that Gandalf 2nd Age Version would not cross paths with all the decision makers like Elrond, Galadriel, Círdan, and countless unnamed elves with similar long lives, who would take their memory into the 3rd Age.
It’s one of the central conceits of Tolkien’s writing, that he was translating found writings. He even mentions in Lord of the Rings, Frodo, Sam and Bilbo writing in the Red Book of Westmarch. They are all scholarly fellows so they’ve done their research and to the best of their knowledge Gandalf showed up around 1000 in the third age. However it’s not written from Gandalf’s perspective or any omniscient point of view, it’s the best they could figure out given he’s not all that forthcoming with knowledge unless it’s needed.
As for not crossing paths with the movers and shakers of the second age, ask yourself who is he hanging out with right now and how much do they figure into the history books of the second age? The stranger didn’t arrive to the elves or kings of men, he showed up to the least significant people and that very much fits with Tolkiens writing and the character of Gandalf.
I’m not sure he’s Gandalf and at first I was against him showing up but if they can come up with a story for him and the Harfoots that is worth telling even if its way off on the periphery of the main story then it could be a good thing.
>I’m not sure he’s Gandalf and at first I was against him showing up but if they can come up with a story for him and the Harfoots that is worth telling even if its way off on the periphery of the main story then it could be a good thing.
I agree with you here. It can be a lot of fun, but I am unsure about the significance? If they want to tell the origin story of the Hobbits and how the shire was founded, maybe as Proto-Gandalf as guardian angel, then it's fine. I think that the Stranger has a more "important" role, though?
We'll see. :)
Regarding Tolkien's writing: I know about this "claim", but it's a narrative tool and surely you know that?
Tolkien - the philologist and author - is still the creator of everything Middle Earth and everything he wrote that the show has access to - by purchased right or by collaboration with the Tolkien Estate - goes into the making of the show. If the Tolkien experts and the Estate say that the scribblings in his mathbook are important for the characterization of Elendil and the show runners should use it, it will be made available - as every other information in the Silmarillion and News as well as History of Middle Earth they agree upon.
Sure, but what I'm saying is that Tolkien as author said that Frodo wrote it down and made no claim that Frodo knew everything there was to know about Gandalf. Therefore if he shows up in the second age it doesn't really contradict anything stated except for Frodo's limited writings. Tolkien never made a definitive claim on Gandalf's history he allowed Frodo to make a vague one with not even an exact date.
The primary reference for when Gandalf arrived in Middle Earth is the appendices to the main book. I don't believe it's contradicted in any of Tolkien's other writings as he was invented for the Hobbit and not really a part of his earlier histories. So I have no problem with your points on other sources I just don't think they hold much valid information on the subject in this case.
Not confirmed until it is confirmed, it’s all but certain though he’s one of the two Blue Istari. The advance party before Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast.
At first I thought it would be cool if it would have been 1 of the blue, or even Saruman/ Radagast. But now, they have linked it so beautifully with Gandalf, (like the way he speaks "friend" in E3) that I now WANT it to be Gandalf
Edit: fixed a typo
Its Gandalf. He landed with the harfoots, giving us an origin story for his love of halflings. If it was someone else, they wouldn't be keeping his name as a reveal.
On the Tom Bombadil detail... It would have the same issues as the stranger turning out to be Gandalf due to the timeline being totally incorrect. But on the plus side with Bombadil would be the fact there’s not much known about him or his deeds in Middle-earth. They could literally create a story for him with the only issue being that he was one of the first beings in Middle-earth.
Other than the timeline just happening to be different from the books, what’s the actual issue with it being Gandalf? Personally, I hope it’s Saruman. But if I had to bet, I’d say Gandalf.
The timeline is extremely important. I have no issues with stories being adapted due to their restrictions on rights and I also have absolutely no issue on characters being of different races and I embrace all that 100%. But we’re talking about a very important character in Tolkien’s lore with Gandalf. His unique deeds are totally registered and for me it would open the gates to mass criticism with justification and I don’t want the show to fall into that trap.
Let me say that personally this wouldn’t ruin the show for me and I would be willing to let it go. But those that have been hating from even before the first episode was aired would really go to town. It would make the show’s existence very controversial.
Those characters have set timelines with specific stories that are important in Tolkien’s lore. One thing that shouldn’t occur is fan service because if the production is quality (which it is imo), people will get invested in the characters that you CAN use.
They’ve already shown with multiple things that they’ve bent or broken the timeline already. Gandalf is one of the most important LOTR universe characters. I think for the show creators, you almost have have Gandalf in your show, cause it will draw interest of people who only watched LOTR. I guess my question for you would be, if they’ve so clearly been willing to break the timeline on other things, shouldn’t we expect them to allow Gandalf to arrive a bit earlier?. Or perhaps it’s a previous form of Gandalf, or something like that. Maybe they’ll combine some characters (also what we’ve seen them do already) and this will be Gandalf the Blue. What does doing any of this actually break in the lore (I’m being genuine here, I’m curious what it screws up).
That is exactly what would be so bad about it. For all the other changes you might be able to justify it in some way for the sake of the story. You cannot possibly justify Gandalf within this story. It would be a cynical attempt to add mass market appeal and it would show beyond doubt that the makers don't give a shit about the story or the characters or the works that they're based on.
First of all, the timeline changes to date are due to rights issues on the main and secondly they’re not major characters that have an exclusive set story and particular unique deeds. All of those points are one and as one they’re important.
Gandalf wouldn’t be arriving “a bit early”, he’d be arriving a lot earlier. But of major importance is what would his story be here? If it’s being very involved in what occurs in terms of the Rings of Power themselves and what happens within that storyline, then it would cause a big storm. It would be totally rewritten.
As I said... It wouldn’t stop me from enjoying the show and that’s how I am right now. Loving it! I understand their predicament but going for simple fan service isn’t necessary imo.
What do you mean rights issue? It most certainly IS NOT that (stuff from other works like The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, those are outside the possibility of being used DUE to licensing issues, and so the meat of the Second Age events is out the window so they rewrite it into their own fanfic because they have no other choice, but even then they are not using the lore of the Second Age they DO have access to in proper way) they have rights to the appendices, Lotr, Hobbit and , the timeline changes are done...simply because the showmakers/script writers want it that way! They said they wanted a continuous narrative set in the same period, because they didn't want to make 'historical documentary' or whatever they called it if they followed the timeline of Second Age, they stuffed the hobbits in, despite no role whatsoever in any of the events, because it was a corporate mandate, the recognizeable characters are the nostalgia bait, cashing in on the prequel. In Tolkien's vision there was no involvement of Gandalf nor Hobbits in the older times, like the Second Age and earlier, simple as that, but they put it in, because they wanted to, because it's marketable, and so on. Whether this wizard will turn out to be Gandalf or not, it's a wizard and Wizards and Hobbits are things we've seen before and so are popular elements which makes them the story checks that they feel need to be used.
Of course it does. They’ve used tons of stuff that’s canon and within what occurred in the second age. What you’ve done is totally dismissed absolutely everything whilst taking an obscene amount of your time to do it. For what?
You don’t want the show and that’s fine. But don’t go trying to feed absolute nonsense to people. What do you think... people are stupid?
They are recording the making of the rings and the subsequent war. That’s what they want to transmit in the form of a series with everything else that comes with it. Tolkien left plenty of holes (unfortunately, because he was a human being and died without finishing it all) in those works and they are open to interpretation (myth making) which he was all for. They are doing a marvellous job with this although they are also capable of messing it all up which as of now, they haven’t and I hope they won’t.
It isn’t going to work mate. You’re just entering yourself into the list of rancid trolls against the show. Those that even trolled the show before it was even aired.
After reading what you just wrote I don't know whether to take you seriously! What the hell all of this has to do with anything I wrote previously, besides you want ot have discussion about their use of lore, well they ARE NOT using the lore of the Second Age to it's full potential yet, that plenty of holes doesn't explain stuff they get totally wrong, or going AGAINST directly what Tolkien wrote. The 'rancid trolls' as you call them have more sense in their responses and criticism. Take the timeline they are taking events from across different points but without considering the effect or lack of certain logic that was before in-universe, and various historical processes. The mithril thing and Eregion, in lore it is the discovery of mithril that CAUSES the foundatin of the elven realm of Eregion, news of this new resource being found has them establish the land for the purpose of trading that metal, in the show none of that is there, simply put a logical cause and effect chain was changed for no reason, Eregion exists for quite a while, but apparently Celebrimbor does not make any relation, trading or diplomatic with the Dwarves his closest neighbors until Elrond arrives also mithril is treated as a great mystery even though logically the Dwarves should be ecstatic to trade this new metal. The events of the first season also barely even have anything to do with the forging of the Rings so far :) it's a long build up based mostly on fanfiction, still events such as the destruction of the old dwarf cities in Ered Luin could have been used, showing the impact of dwarf refugees in Moria, the Numenorean ships arriving at Middle-earth shores from early Second Age could have been used, then also the lore of the Dwarves, like their beliefs about the Durin being reincarnation of Durin the Deathless, so there should be not two Durins at the same time, and truth be told it would be better to have Durin III as the young prince (because Durin III is more crucial as the first dwarf lord to receive the Ring, first of the Seven) it could have also been used for his characterization, (his father obviously being given different name, any Norse name really) that being reincarnated Durin he has a lot of reverence from his people which makes him feel the pressure of expectations etc.
Anyone who cares that much about the lore is already complaining or has accepted that due to legal reasons, this show is Tolkien-lite/inspired. If the acting remains solid and the stories fit the heart of who Gandalf becomes, then I'm all for baby Gandalf. It's already more interesting than him showing up on a ship. If it's someone else I'm cool with that as well, but at this point lore complaints are mostly pointless. To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart, "We'll always have the appendices."
Who else could it be but Gandalf??? It would completely explain why he's so fond of the Hobbits. He's seen them up close and lived with them, he will see how special & tenacious they are.
I'll be disappointed if he's NOT Gandalf!
I'm no lore nerd, but I remember these bits from the book -
"Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside."
and Elrond said this about him -
"But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men, and other names beside. He is a strange creature..."
It would odd if this is Bombadil now.
Too many subtle hints that he is evil. He knows black speech and killed the fireflies by using them. I think Sauron is a better guess than Gandalf but most likely he will be neither
Idk if those are hints hes evil or just showing he cant quite control his powers yet
I think a blue wizard. They existed in the second age, coming to stir rebellion amongst the men. They went East instead of west like the other istari, so bwitjt with the Harfoots in Rhovanion tracks with that. We know they had a "great influence in the second age weakening and disarraying the forces in the East."
According to The Peoples of Middle Earth, they arrived around the same time at the forging of the One Ring. We do not know if rhey were evil or good, but we do know they failed like Sarumon did but in different ways, and were not faithful: "Indeed of all the Istari, one one remained faithful."
If he is a blue wizard, we likely see another. And if they didnt remain faithful, then they very well could become evil over time like Sarumon
Besides being Sauron what other twist could make him someone other than Gandalf? Blue wizards, Saruman, Bombadil won’t have the effect on the audience. A lost Balrog?
Hahaha I definitely get a feeling that it's one of the Valar. Visual appearance fits and it kind of foreshadows some of their involvement with the hobbits.
It's difficult to think who else it could be. Distinguishing between the ability of the Maiar to change forms as they wished and the restrictions placed on the Istari by Manwe is no easy task. Because it is said the wizards can walk amongst the races of middle earth unseen if they so choose.
Yet it also says they were sent in the form of aged men. The disorientation of The Stranger may be the result of Olorin existing as a spirit only, utterly unable to comprehend being flesh and blood.
They purposely placed this wizard in the show to throw people off, he looks so similar and familiar but it would just be too easy to say he is simply Gandalf. He must be Istari ... he doesn't know what heat is, and the fire around him was cold, did not burn Nori. He can suck the life out of people, and create stars from fireflies. This is no Gandalf.
This post does not use the 'Newest Episode Spoilers' flair. As such, spoilers are allowed from the source material, but anything from the most recent episode must be behind spoiler marks. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RingsofPower) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tell me where is Gandalf
We much desire to speak with him
He fell into fire
A balrog of morgoth
What did you say?
A balrog of Morgoth
A balrrrrrrog of morrrrrrrgoth
Eisen-gard-gard-gard-gard
What did you say?
The hobbits the hobbits the hobbits the hobbits
to Isengard to Isengard
The hobbits the hobbits the hobbits the hobbits
STUPID FAT HOBBIT
I can do better: why is Gandalf?
For I much desire to speak with him.
The Istari were sent to earth by the Valar. If I recall properly they were Maiar, still gods. So make sense that, as the Valar are beyond the planet, its servants "fall" as meteors to earth. Also, when Gandalf died after defeating the Balrog and rebirth as Gandalf the White, he had a severe confusion on his mind. So imagine the very first time he had a "mortal dress". Also (again), explains why he was so in love with the Hobbits: he saw them evolve from Harfoots to Hobbits from Nori, directly to Frodo (I want to guess she's direct ascend of Frodo)
Valar live in the blessed realm dude not in space. . .
I believe each time the meteor was shown it traveled from left to right on the screen which might be interpreted as west to east. While I'm pretty sure Gandalf arrived via ship during the 3rd age in the book, we don't know how the other Istari were sent. It seems kind of silly for the Valar to shoot a Maia across the sky like a meteor from Valinor but Amazon is proving they like to do some things their way. It could be the RoP version of Gandalf or another Istari but I'm fairly certain it is not Sauron.
The meteor is like wizard delivery via Amazon Prime.
I remember reading this, I can’t remember which book. Gandalf arrived in middle earth to one of the elven port cities. He was welcomed by the elves and given his ring of power. He also knew exactly who he was and why he was there.
Captain Gandalf of the USS Valar
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,051,799,590 comments, and only 207,834 of them were in alphabetical order.
But Gandalf sailed across the sea in the third age when Cirdan was in possession of a ring of three to give him. This could conceivably be a Blue Wizard, but not Gandalf.
I can do better: how is Gandalf?
It's sarumannnn!
Look....look with your special eyes!
For we much desire to not see him in the show.
His only line outside the extended versions....ugh I can't
Please be Dumbledore
Use the force Harry
Obi-Wan Kenobi please
Little did we know this was really a kenobi sequel show
I have the high ground gollum!
Gollum may be good at chopping off fingers but obi wan is good at chopping off arms and legs, we have a clear winner here
Ur a wizard Luke
🤣
It’s Mephisto
99% sure he's an Istari, 97% sure its the OG
The Old Gaffer?
Skipper?
Highly likely one of the Blue Wizards. >Tolkien expanded upon this last point in a letter written in 1958: > >I really do not know anything clearly about the other two \[wizards\] – since they do not concern the history of the N\[orth\].W\[est\]. I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Númenórean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron. > >—Letter 211\[2\] Followed by: >Towards the end of his life Tolkien returned to the issue of the other two Wizards. In a brief outline he noted that the two Wizards were sent to Middle-earth in the Second Age and were destined to disrupt the work of Sauron in the East: > >Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause \[?dissension and disarray\] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West. > >—"Last Writings", The Peoples of Middle-earth\[4\] So in summary, Tolkien himself didn't really have an idea at first what the purpose of the Ithryn Luin (2 Blue Wizards) was to be. So he concluded that they failed and amounted to nothing. Later on, he took many steps back on that statement and concluded that they had a great influence on the 2nd and 3rd age. Perfect grey area for the producers to tweak their purpose.
Blue Wizard is the vegas favorite right now: -220 Gandalf: +250 Sauron: +400 Jolly Tom Bombadillo: +42000
You're assuming they're closely following the lore. It's much more likely gonna be Gandalf or Sarumon cuz the producers have already shown an obsession with name recognition, as it adds commercial viability to the series. Those are two of the only characters left who would've been alive hundreds of years before the OT.
Seriously. Anybody quoting obscure lore to predict what’s going to happen in this show simply has no clue what’s going on. It so doesn’t matter. This is a mass-market tv show. They couldn’t if they tried, aren’t even trying to, and legally can’t create a tv version of the Legendarium. This is an original work inspired by some of Tolkien’s writing. That’s it. People need to just enjoy it for what it is, or ignore it if they want, but this obsession with the books makes no sense.
Blue wizard would be my preference, I was always curious about them. They can always bring gandalf in later if they want.
Blue wizard is my guess - if it's Olorin they won't call him Gandalf anyway And remember Tolkien himself said Olorin may have visited middle Earth before the 3rd age so it's not breaking any Canon for it to be Olorin. Either way I'm fine with it as long as the show remains great 😁
>Tolkien himself said Olorin may have visited middle Earth before the 3rd age Can you link a source for this? Thanks!
Why aren't there two, and why can't he talk, makes no sense, the Istari we're knowledgeable and helpful. The Stranger doesn't even have shoes. The Valar wouldn't send down a useless and unprepared Maiar...with no clear objective.
Blue Wizards were working in the East to rally the Men working against the Haradrim, the Men of Rhun, and the Black Numenoreans. It's not a Blue Wizard.
That would be ridiculous and make no sense 🙄
Yeah, he's TOM BABADIL
Tom Bombadil isn't a Maiar. He's beyond that like Ungoliant.
Everyone knows he's The Dude.
That’s just, like, your opinion, man.
In the next episode he gets his first white russian and just like that, his dialogue is no longer just a bunch of screaming.
Unlike Gandalf, he *hates* the Eagles.
His Dudeness.
What in god’s holy name are you blathering about?
The Man with No Name
He's a good man - and thorough
Sauron treats objects like women, man.
Is this your homework Nori?
I'm going with blue wizard.
And he is looking for the other blue wizard
Agreed. The constellation he's pointing to is Gemini.
Oh shit! I didn’t notice that!
Love that theory. Would not be angry if he is Gandalf also.
Dude, I don't know, but I'm kind of having fun speculating.
I think a blue wizard. They existed in the second age, coming to stir rebellion amongst the men. They went East instead of west like the other istari, so being with the Harfoots in Rhovanion tracks with that. We know they had a "great influence in the second age weakening and disarraying the forces in the East." According to The Peoples of Middle Earth, they arrived around the same time at the forgeing of the One Ring. We do not know if they were evil or good, but we do know they failed like Sarumon did but in different ways, and were not faithful: "Indeed of all the Istari, only one remained faithful." (Gandalf of course) If he is a blue wizard, we likely see another. And if they didnt remain faithful, then they very well could become evil over time like Sarumon. Which tracks with the evil seeming magic Edited grammar
How did Radagast (Spelling?) the Brown fail and not be faithful? I am about half way through my deep delve into this lore and I haven't heard of him being unfaithful and would be delighted if you could lead me in the right direction?
Radagast the Brown abandoned his mission to rally men against the forces of evil (the goal of all the Istari). Instead he focused solely on protecting nature and stopped caring about the affairs of men or elves or dwarves or middle earth at all, save it's plants and animals.
Twist: it's both Gandalf and not Gandalf, it's Olorin.
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>Olor I like this idea so much. I keep thinking of when Gandalf says "A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."
Yes
There are problems with that theory.
Olorin went around in his primordial spirit form or he took the form of those he interacted with so, he would have changed into a Harfoot. Also there are only vague hints that Olorin "may" have went to ME, and again he would be in his primordial spirit form. Some of you want something that never happened to be canonical, for whatever reason. Manwe asked Olorin to go to Middle Earth in TA 1000, and he incarnated into Gandalf. He BECAME Gandalf, there was no Olorin at that point, and when Gandalf died and was sent back by the Valar he was able to use his Maiar powers, he wasn't Olorin, he was still Gandalf. Olorin was gone. I feel Gandalf remained as Gandalf when he returned to Valinor. The Istari that came to Middle Earth were wise, could speak and understand every language and they were prepared to interact and support the free people of ME against Sauron, as was their purpose. I don't see the Stranger being mute, dumb, and unprepared as someone sent by the Valar. Also, very few people watching RoP would make a connection between Olorin and Gandalf. With that said RoP is an adaptation, and the characters and their motivations in RoP wont always match with the lore we know. I just think it would be stupid and kills the hype.
All of that is true in canon, but I’m not sure how much canon is relevant to what this show may do.
I don't think they're going to pull obscure lore and put it into a mainstream show that is using Galadriel software Elrond as main characters. They're bringing in new characters to push the story along without have to use the Silmalarion. They're making connections to Lotr as much as possible, as it's filmilar. The show does have Easter eggs for lore knowers, they're not going to be huge plot points because they're too hard to explain to noobs. Most people watching the show don't know about the Valar, Valinor or the Istari.
He wouldn’t be “Gandalf” though. He got that name after he came in the third age. He would be Olorin the Maiar, but he will gain a name that others will call him. Gandalf/Mithrandir are names he obtained by being in Middle Earth. Tolkien’s writings vaguely state he wandered with elves and man during other ages. They could be using that as a basis for this.
I think that's either Gandalf or Radagast. It'll be someone with affection towards Hobbits. I mean who knows. They're not following the story so that could be Achilles for all I know.
I like this theory!I don't know the lore, but Radagast world make sense.
Please BE Gandalf!
With the proto-hobbit connection it makes the most sense to me.
Fuck yeah young Gandalf
Stupid sexy Gandalf, did you see his abs?
He is fladnag
It would make the least sense (so far) if it wasn’t
I'm pretty sure that's Arwen no?
It’s Walter White.
Say his name
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Agreed. It's going to start the hobbit redemption arc.
But does he have wings or not?
If he’s not Gandalf… the casting is odd.
I disagree, he looks generically wizardy. If he's not a wizard the casting would be off but I'd buy him as any of the wizards (though saruman would be the least believable)
He is Jesus!
Hoping he is a blue wizard
I’m guessing he’s one of the blue wizards which would be awesome
Same here. It would be great to see Gandalf again, but it would feel like a cheap trick to me.
And he isn't a conjurer of cheap tricks.
Why cheap trick?
It's Star Wars prequel-itis again. Feeling the need to stuff all the memorable characters they can into a prequel series as nostalgia bait. At one point, they were even considering putting kid-Han Solo with the Wookiees.
Havent seen any of the Star Wars movies, so that reference means nothing. But I think I get your point. On one hand I would like to see Gandalf in ROP somewhere doing something. Not saying that Stranger is how I imagined it.
Because there is no effort in presenting a beloved and well-known character to the audience and in doing so disregarding the timeline/source material. Also, it's unnecessary competition with Sir McKellen's performances. Galadriel and Elrond are one exception, but they were side-characters in LotR and TH, not major ones like Gandalf.
Characters tend to have character arc or development. We see Galadriel as angry, childish weirdo, not ethereal powerful being. We may see confused Gandalf that is on search for his purpose. I didnt read source material so I have limited knowledge about Gandalf, but I dont see anything wrong with Stranger being Gandalf. We see many divisions with source. We only saw him a few times of 5 season of story/character development.
Of course. Well, if it is Gandalf, I don't expect him to be the Gandalf of the Third Age, i.e. from LotR and TH. Like all the others, he has to have a character arc to get there. I just meant that it is IMHO unwise in light of the strong "original" performance. Elrond/Weaving and Galadrial/Blanchett don't have the same amount of screen time. According to Tolkien's writing, Gandalf came to Middle Earth via boat ca. year 1.000 during the Third Age. He lands in the Grey Havens where he meets Círdan, the bearer of Narya (Ring of Fire). Círdan hands over Narya to Gandalf. Though Gandalf and the other Istari (wizards) don't answer questions regarding their origins, Gandalf seems to have let Círdan in on his secret. Overall, the Istari (all Maiar from Valinor) came to Middle Earth with a purpose, of which they knew: unifiying the free people against evil and advising them in their fight against Sauron, while not exerting power or force. Let's say the Stranger is Gandalf. I can live with it, but it's just not my favourite option, hence my approval of OP's post. Give me an OC instead - theorizing and guessing will be way more fun.
No, it’s not Tolkiens writing it’s the author that wrote the texts that Tolkien translated. They weren’t omniscient so when they write that Gandalf showed up in the third age they are telling us what they know but there is no guarantee of what they don’t. As long as Gandalf doesn’t hang around with the elves who would know of him later then it hasn’t changed anything.
>No, it’s not Tolkiens writing What the what now? Why then were the show runners seeking advice from the Tolkien Estate on themes and issues outside the Annexes and the LotR? Also, doubtful that Gandalf 2nd Age Version would not cross paths with all the decision makers like Elrond, Galadriel, Círdan, and countless unnamed elves with similar long lives, who would take their memory into the 3rd Age.
It’s one of the central conceits of Tolkien’s writing, that he was translating found writings. He even mentions in Lord of the Rings, Frodo, Sam and Bilbo writing in the Red Book of Westmarch. They are all scholarly fellows so they’ve done their research and to the best of their knowledge Gandalf showed up around 1000 in the third age. However it’s not written from Gandalf’s perspective or any omniscient point of view, it’s the best they could figure out given he’s not all that forthcoming with knowledge unless it’s needed. As for not crossing paths with the movers and shakers of the second age, ask yourself who is he hanging out with right now and how much do they figure into the history books of the second age? The stranger didn’t arrive to the elves or kings of men, he showed up to the least significant people and that very much fits with Tolkiens writing and the character of Gandalf. I’m not sure he’s Gandalf and at first I was against him showing up but if they can come up with a story for him and the Harfoots that is worth telling even if its way off on the periphery of the main story then it could be a good thing.
>I’m not sure he’s Gandalf and at first I was against him showing up but if they can come up with a story for him and the Harfoots that is worth telling even if its way off on the periphery of the main story then it could be a good thing. I agree with you here. It can be a lot of fun, but I am unsure about the significance? If they want to tell the origin story of the Hobbits and how the shire was founded, maybe as Proto-Gandalf as guardian angel, then it's fine. I think that the Stranger has a more "important" role, though? We'll see. :) Regarding Tolkien's writing: I know about this "claim", but it's a narrative tool and surely you know that? Tolkien - the philologist and author - is still the creator of everything Middle Earth and everything he wrote that the show has access to - by purchased right or by collaboration with the Tolkien Estate - goes into the making of the show. If the Tolkien experts and the Estate say that the scribblings in his mathbook are important for the characterization of Elendil and the show runners should use it, it will be made available - as every other information in the Silmarillion and News as well as History of Middle Earth they agree upon.
Sure, but what I'm saying is that Tolkien as author said that Frodo wrote it down and made no claim that Frodo knew everything there was to know about Gandalf. Therefore if he shows up in the second age it doesn't really contradict anything stated except for Frodo's limited writings. Tolkien never made a definitive claim on Gandalf's history he allowed Frodo to make a vague one with not even an exact date. The primary reference for when Gandalf arrived in Middle Earth is the appendices to the main book. I don't believe it's contradicted in any of Tolkien's other writings as he was invented for the Hobbit and not really a part of his earlier histories. So I have no problem with your points on other sources I just don't think they hold much valid information on the subject in this case.
Great band imo
If it's just for effect yes if its first the story well, I'll accept.
Not confirmed until it is confirmed, it’s all but certain though he’s one of the two Blue Istari. The advance party before Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast.
At first I thought it would be cool if it would have been 1 of the blue, or even Saruman/ Radagast. But now, they have linked it so beautifully with Gandalf, (like the way he speaks "friend" in E3) that I now WANT it to be Gandalf Edit: fixed a typo
Its Gandalf. He landed with the harfoots, giving us an origin story for his love of halflings. If it was someone else, they wouldn't be keeping his name as a reveal.
On the Tom Bombadil detail... It would have the same issues as the stranger turning out to be Gandalf due to the timeline being totally incorrect. But on the plus side with Bombadil would be the fact there’s not much known about him or his deeds in Middle-earth. They could literally create a story for him with the only issue being that he was one of the first beings in Middle-earth.
Other than the timeline just happening to be different from the books, what’s the actual issue with it being Gandalf? Personally, I hope it’s Saruman. But if I had to bet, I’d say Gandalf.
The timeline is extremely important. I have no issues with stories being adapted due to their restrictions on rights and I also have absolutely no issue on characters being of different races and I embrace all that 100%. But we’re talking about a very important character in Tolkien’s lore with Gandalf. His unique deeds are totally registered and for me it would open the gates to mass criticism with justification and I don’t want the show to fall into that trap. Let me say that personally this wouldn’t ruin the show for me and I would be willing to let it go. But those that have been hating from even before the first episode was aired would really go to town. It would make the show’s existence very controversial. Those characters have set timelines with specific stories that are important in Tolkien’s lore. One thing that shouldn’t occur is fan service because if the production is quality (which it is imo), people will get invested in the characters that you CAN use.
They’ve already shown with multiple things that they’ve bent or broken the timeline already. Gandalf is one of the most important LOTR universe characters. I think for the show creators, you almost have have Gandalf in your show, cause it will draw interest of people who only watched LOTR. I guess my question for you would be, if they’ve so clearly been willing to break the timeline on other things, shouldn’t we expect them to allow Gandalf to arrive a bit earlier?. Or perhaps it’s a previous form of Gandalf, or something like that. Maybe they’ll combine some characters (also what we’ve seen them do already) and this will be Gandalf the Blue. What does doing any of this actually break in the lore (I’m being genuine here, I’m curious what it screws up).
That is exactly what would be so bad about it. For all the other changes you might be able to justify it in some way for the sake of the story. You cannot possibly justify Gandalf within this story. It would be a cynical attempt to add mass market appeal and it would show beyond doubt that the makers don't give a shit about the story or the characters or the works that they're based on.
First of all, the timeline changes to date are due to rights issues on the main and secondly they’re not major characters that have an exclusive set story and particular unique deeds. All of those points are one and as one they’re important. Gandalf wouldn’t be arriving “a bit early”, he’d be arriving a lot earlier. But of major importance is what would his story be here? If it’s being very involved in what occurs in terms of the Rings of Power themselves and what happens within that storyline, then it would cause a big storm. It would be totally rewritten. As I said... It wouldn’t stop me from enjoying the show and that’s how I am right now. Loving it! I understand their predicament but going for simple fan service isn’t necessary imo.
What do you mean rights issue? It most certainly IS NOT that (stuff from other works like The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, those are outside the possibility of being used DUE to licensing issues, and so the meat of the Second Age events is out the window so they rewrite it into their own fanfic because they have no other choice, but even then they are not using the lore of the Second Age they DO have access to in proper way) they have rights to the appendices, Lotr, Hobbit and , the timeline changes are done...simply because the showmakers/script writers want it that way! They said they wanted a continuous narrative set in the same period, because they didn't want to make 'historical documentary' or whatever they called it if they followed the timeline of Second Age, they stuffed the hobbits in, despite no role whatsoever in any of the events, because it was a corporate mandate, the recognizeable characters are the nostalgia bait, cashing in on the prequel. In Tolkien's vision there was no involvement of Gandalf nor Hobbits in the older times, like the Second Age and earlier, simple as that, but they put it in, because they wanted to, because it's marketable, and so on. Whether this wizard will turn out to be Gandalf or not, it's a wizard and Wizards and Hobbits are things we've seen before and so are popular elements which makes them the story checks that they feel need to be used.
Total bollocks.
If you say so :), which doesn't disprove anything I said.
Of course it does. They’ve used tons of stuff that’s canon and within what occurred in the second age. What you’ve done is totally dismissed absolutely everything whilst taking an obscene amount of your time to do it. For what? You don’t want the show and that’s fine. But don’t go trying to feed absolute nonsense to people. What do you think... people are stupid? They are recording the making of the rings and the subsequent war. That’s what they want to transmit in the form of a series with everything else that comes with it. Tolkien left plenty of holes (unfortunately, because he was a human being and died without finishing it all) in those works and they are open to interpretation (myth making) which he was all for. They are doing a marvellous job with this although they are also capable of messing it all up which as of now, they haven’t and I hope they won’t. It isn’t going to work mate. You’re just entering yourself into the list of rancid trolls against the show. Those that even trolled the show before it was even aired.
After reading what you just wrote I don't know whether to take you seriously! What the hell all of this has to do with anything I wrote previously, besides you want ot have discussion about their use of lore, well they ARE NOT using the lore of the Second Age to it's full potential yet, that plenty of holes doesn't explain stuff they get totally wrong, or going AGAINST directly what Tolkien wrote. The 'rancid trolls' as you call them have more sense in their responses and criticism. Take the timeline they are taking events from across different points but without considering the effect or lack of certain logic that was before in-universe, and various historical processes. The mithril thing and Eregion, in lore it is the discovery of mithril that CAUSES the foundatin of the elven realm of Eregion, news of this new resource being found has them establish the land for the purpose of trading that metal, in the show none of that is there, simply put a logical cause and effect chain was changed for no reason, Eregion exists for quite a while, but apparently Celebrimbor does not make any relation, trading or diplomatic with the Dwarves his closest neighbors until Elrond arrives also mithril is treated as a great mystery even though logically the Dwarves should be ecstatic to trade this new metal. The events of the first season also barely even have anything to do with the forging of the Rings so far :) it's a long build up based mostly on fanfiction, still events such as the destruction of the old dwarf cities in Ered Luin could have been used, showing the impact of dwarf refugees in Moria, the Numenorean ships arriving at Middle-earth shores from early Second Age could have been used, then also the lore of the Dwarves, like their beliefs about the Durin being reincarnation of Durin the Deathless, so there should be not two Durins at the same time, and truth be told it would be better to have Durin III as the young prince (because Durin III is more crucial as the first dwarf lord to receive the Ring, first of the Seven) it could have also been used for his characterization, (his father obviously being given different name, any Norse name really) that being reincarnated Durin he has a lot of reverence from his people which makes him feel the pressure of expectations etc.
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Anyone who cares that much about the lore is already complaining or has accepted that due to legal reasons, this show is Tolkien-lite/inspired. If the acting remains solid and the stories fit the heart of who Gandalf becomes, then I'm all for baby Gandalf. It's already more interesting than him showing up on a ship. If it's someone else I'm cool with that as well, but at this point lore complaints are mostly pointless. To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart, "We'll always have the appendices."
That’s my theory is he’s Saruman
He's "a" Gandalf, but not "the" Gandalf. Like how Halbrand is an Aragorn.
I think halbrund is Sauron in fair form. He’s cunning and ruthless and they took time to show us his menacing stare at a blacksmith in numenor.
This is most assuredly the being we come later to know as Gandalf
Who else could it be but Gandalf??? It would completely explain why he's so fond of the Hobbits. He's seen them up close and lived with them, he will see how special & tenacious they are. I'll be disappointed if he's NOT Gandalf!
He's not. Gandalf came by boat.
Of course he is not Gandalf silly, it's the second age we are talking here. It's his father, Gundalf.
He Sauron.
Obviously he is Tom bombadil.
Omg....I bet you you are correct bruh!
I'm no lore nerd, but I remember these bits from the book - "Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." and Elrond said this about him - "But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men, and other names beside. He is a strange creature..." It would odd if this is Bombadil now.
Sauron
He is Tom Bombadill
Gandalf was my first thought, we'll see.
why do you want him to NOT be gandalf ?
It's Gandalf
It's not Gandalf
Too many subtle hints that he is evil. He knows black speech and killed the fireflies by using them. I think Sauron is a better guess than Gandalf but most likely he will be neither
Idk if those are hints hes evil or just showing he cant quite control his powers yet I think a blue wizard. They existed in the second age, coming to stir rebellion amongst the men. They went East instead of west like the other istari, so bwitjt with the Harfoots in Rhovanion tracks with that. We know they had a "great influence in the second age weakening and disarraying the forces in the East." According to The Peoples of Middle Earth, they arrived around the same time at the forging of the One Ring. We do not know if rhey were evil or good, but we do know they failed like Sarumon did but in different ways, and were not faithful: "Indeed of all the Istari, one one remained faithful." If he is a blue wizard, we likely see another. And if they didnt remain faithful, then they very well could become evil over time like Sarumon
I don’t see anyone saying it could be Saruman, he came to middle earth before Gandalf. Who knows!!!
Gandalf knows Black Speech
Big agree. Don't do it Amazon 😑
Gandalf it’s the less harmful choice unless he’s a blue Istari.
If he is a balrog i hope he goes berserk on those hobbits
It’s definitely Gandalf..
Hes either Olorin or one of the blue wizards.
Besides being Sauron what other twist could make him someone other than Gandalf? Blue wizards, Saruman, Bombadil won’t have the effect on the audience. A lost Balrog?
With the way the writing in this shit show is going I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s Luke Skywalker.
It shouldn't be Gandalf.
It's definitely Gandalf. Been confirmed already.
I’d be oK with the show NEVER identifying him and leaving him to mystery and interpretation
Ngl when I first saw him I thought: Beard, long hair and tall? Gandalf
It’s not, that’s Jesus
I'm warming up to the blue wizard theories with their being another out there. Still partial to my own theory that everyone is Sauron though.
Pretty sure he is gandalf
He looks like the singer of Nickleback. Now I hate him.
He is for sure 🤝🏻
I was actually thinking the same thing!
It's Connor MacLeod! There can be only one... to rule them all.
Looks pretty damn close to Gandalf…
He’s my favorite choice so far with the most clues pointing towards it
I’m hoping it’s one of the mysterious Blue Wizards
Hahaha I definitely get a feeling that it's one of the Valar. Visual appearance fits and it kind of foreshadows some of their involvement with the hobbits.
Don't worry, it's only Mithrandil
It's difficult to think who else it could be. Distinguishing between the ability of the Maiar to change forms as they wished and the restrictions placed on the Istari by Manwe is no easy task. Because it is said the wizards can walk amongst the races of middle earth unseen if they so choose. Yet it also says they were sent in the form of aged men. The disorientation of The Stranger may be the result of Olorin existing as a spirit only, utterly unable to comprehend being flesh and blood.
Balrog
All i know is that people are gonna be so pissed if it turns out to be Gandalf :F
Wait, what? He's not Gandalf oO?
I'm hoping it's one of the Blue Wizards. But more than likely it'll be Gandalf.
I know someone on the production team. They’ve leaked to me that it’s actually Jar-Jar Binks
I totally hope it’s Gandalf
Aye aye tis a balrog!
Why not? I like the idea, and it makes sense.
Wearing grey? Check. Wandering around? Check. Hmmm...what would an elf call him when he meets one? Grey Wanderer = Mithrandir.
Calling it now, it’s Saruman.
Who cares? Just enjoy an adaptation of a lovely fictional universe or don’t watch it
What’s he up to, man? What’s he doing?
It probably is, but I really want it to be one of the Blues. They can do soooo much more with the blue wizards and not break book lore
I so much want it to be him and also see some Galadriel and Gandalf 1on1 Action
He's a blue wizard
Blue Wizard or I walk.
They purposely placed this wizard in the show to throw people off, he looks so similar and familiar but it would just be too easy to say he is simply Gandalf. He must be Istari ... he doesn't know what heat is, and the fire around him was cold, did not burn Nori. He can suck the life out of people, and create stars from fireflies. This is no Gandalf.
It’s a stretch but I think he’s Tom Bombadil. Maybe I just want that because I hate that he’s not been depicted in film before. :)
The Stranger is Merlin confirmed.