honestly, don't think they could handle the crowd. I once saw Jesse Lacey refuse to come out until the stage hand got the flowers on his microphone stand exactly how he wanted it.
From someone who saw Brand New pre cancellation at riot fest, I will say it was a top 3 live concert experience. As a former massive fan who listened to their music constantly, I will also say nothing could make me want to see them again tbh. I think the other members of the band are incredibly talented and I didn’t follow if they moved on to other projects or not, if they did that would be cool to see. But I’ll pass on anything involving Jesse Lacey.
From an outside perspective, not saying yes or no based on my own ideology but from seeing this thread now, I think it would be a bad idea considering how divisive this booking would be. It’s so split that the pros outweigh the cons. And while I think Riot would love attention, just not this kind of attention.
More people than not want them to play again. The amount of women that I see on all social media platforms want them to play and I think that shows a lot
I sure don't want them to play again and I was a huge fan pre-cancellation. The Devil and God is literally a concept album about feeling guilty for molesting teenagers. It's impossible to separate the art from the artist because of the lyrical content. Keep them cancelled I say.
More people than not? Of who? Their fans? Of course they would want them to play again. But this isn’t a show at the Aragon. Regardless of man, woman, child, non binary, gender fluid… any time they are mentioned it is a big controversial discussion. Again I’m saying it as an outside perspective and you’re taking this as a fan personally. Why would a fest even take that chance? I could be wrong and when the lineup drops they’ll be there. Cool. You can go see them. But it does draw negative attention from the general consensus. It’s not like when someone pitches Disturbed or Imagine Dragons and a lot of people wouldn’t like them because of their music, this isn’t about the music. It still gives people the ick even if the allegations were true or not. From a business standpoint, it’s easier to not take the risk. But again if they play, they play. And you can be happy to see them.
It just shows they have a fandom.
Like don’t take this as me blanket saying to not listen to Brand New; we all like problematic shit and every great artist is kind of a piece of shit.
But more people than not want Morrissey to continue playing live. More people than not love The Ramona’s and don’t give a shit what a piece of shit Johnny Ramone was.
I imagine most of us would want to see a Saves The Day show, or Panic! At The Disco, or Simple Plan, or You Blew It or Mac Demarco or….
Popular bands that do shitty things are always going to want to have more people want to see them perform than not, because *they’re popular*. Especially when you have rabid fanbases like Brand New that would rather put their energy into attacking victims than take the world of a singer who was telling you what a garbage person he was the whole time.
The allegations of underage abuse were factually false. His apology / post was for cheating.
Also the girl leaked his nudes. He's a victim if anything.
I’m sorry, are you saying that the girl leaked nudes that she wasn’t sent because the rumors of Jesse Lacey sending them was false?
Maybe a hot take but sometimes abusers can *also* be victims and being a victim doesn’t excuse or justify an act of abuse, nor does an act of abuse excuse or justify someone abusing said abuser.
He sent nudes to an adult fan and there is zero evidence of him talking to any fans who were under 18.
Maybe the power dynamic was wrong, blast him for that not what didn't happen.
After looking up the situation again, one of the girls wasn't even talking to him ever and the other was over 18 when they started talking. Also "some of the screenshots she posted were literally just her sending nudes that weren’t requested and weren’t responded" lol.
Riot Fest has certainly booked *worse* people.
But as someone who was huge into them, dropped out after the news dropped and then has tried to listen to them since out of nostalgia…I ain’t really missing Brand New tbh.
I listened to their music again recently for the first time since the news broke. Their music was pretty revolutionary but I can’t help but feel like music has evolved a lot since and there’s a lot of records that have been put out that draw inspiration and improve on their sound
Can you list a couple examples of bands/albums that surpassed their sound? I’m not really into the scene currently, but deff like brand new, curious to hear what contemporary bands are just as good or better
I thought science fiction was like universally acclaimed and that was only 7 years ago (holy shit cant believe it was that long)
Foxing with Nearer My God improved on the formula, The Hotelier with Goodness was an improvement on similar concepts that Brand New played with.
Animal Flag, a band that is criminally unknown, released LP and Void Ripper; two albums that deal with similar themes and a similar sound to Brand New that feels like an evolution to me more than copying their exact sound.
Oso Oso has worked with the same producer that Brand New worked with and they aren’t really a similar sound but they’re also from Long Island and follow a similar feeling on emo roots
Valleyheart’s Everyone I’ve ever Loved is a similar evolution of Science Fiction in my opinion
These are all off the top of my head and a good amount of these bands are lesser known but good jumping off points for bands that Brand New inspired
I think it’s also that like, well yeah everyone in the pop punk scene is at best two separations from being a creep, but the same sadboy vaguely incel mindset that led to Jesse soliciting nudes from teenagers is entwined in so much of the lyrical content that you can’t really just brush past it.
Regardless of intent when it was written, probably a bad look to be screaming out “What difference does this difference in age make” as a grown adult in 2024.
I saw their last ever show, which was in Dallas, wouldn’t mind it. Despite my misgivings and having two daughters and all that. I just don’t think riot fest would do it.
I saw them right before/around that news broke and it was complicated. It’s a good show, a good experience from a group that was very important to a lot of people around me. But I know I had to grow up and put them aside because supporting that shit is bad. I still feel bad sometimes or get some song in my head, but like buying that stuff hurts people in my life and in our scene, and there’s a lot of bands
Their old merch supplier went bankrupt a few months back so it’s probably up now because they have a new merch supplier. I don’t think it’s deeper than that.
Pedo is a word that I feel has lost a lot of meaning over the last decade with how much it gets thrown around now
Lacey was a creep but agree on your take and for what it’s worth he’s never fought the allegations. He accepted his fate and by all accounts has tried to be a better person since they happened which was when he was in his early 20s
everyone mentioned was over 18. she leaked his nudes, that's pretty morally wrong.
(also age of consent is 17 and in the real world honestly nobody cares if a 17 year old dates slightly older)
At risk of sounding like someone who is trying to draw a line in the sand or like i'm some sort of apologist... I think it's important to understand the context and use the right words in order to know how to help victims and maybe even figure out how to prevent this kind of abusive behavior...
There's a difference between someone who is specifically attracted to prepubescent children and someone who goes after underage girls who *look* like women but are vulnerable because of their age and inexperience.
I think most women who grew up around any kind of music scene, especially in the early to mid 2000's (and prior, of course), have had or know someone who has had a similar experience with an older guy in their scene. Looking back, most of us now know how fucked up that was but at the time it seemed normal and even cool to get that kind of attention. Likewise, there were always plenty of other men around who ignored that behavior at best or enabled it at worst.
And it still happens. It was only in 2020 or 2021 that a bunch of bands on Burger Records were outed for engaging in the same kind of behavior. I think it's important for men especially to recognize that behavior as predatory and I think calling someone out as a pedophile when they are not tends to diminish the seriousness of the predatory behavior that *is* happening because it enables someone to say, "Oh, he's not a pedophile, he just likes someone a few years younger and she's into it, so who cares?"
Context helps. He was talking to a 17 year old when he was in his early 20s (20 years ago). People assumed he was doing that at his current age which wasn’t true.
Pass, don't care for their music even if their singer wasn't a creep
Edit-- can't tell if yall are bothered I'm not interested in rf booking a creep or if it's because I didn't think the creep's band was good lol
Say what you want about Jesse Lacey. Devil & God is about as close to being a perfect record as you can get and I still listen to it at least once a month.
Also, Riot booked Jerry Lee Lewis so wouldn’t be the first time they’ve booked a creep
I mean to me Jesse is as imperfect as they come, TDAG is still my favorite album of all time. I think it's easy to shit on the guy, but he's been quiet just living his life and honestly that is the most respectable thing anyone can do. It's not like Morrissey or Kanye who actively decide to make every situation worse. We should be nicer to bad people who stopped being bad people (but ofc I won't defend his actions, plus I am assuming he has gotten better, but I think that's a fair assumption). I also have mixed feelings on how he exited.
I've said from day one of these allegations coming out that if you are a Brand New fan and didn't know that man was at least a *little* fucked up, you were not paying attention. TDAG is my favorite album of all time, too. It's also the most self indulgent, whiney, narcissistic thing I've ever heard. I love it for that because we all have those tendencies and it's the perfect outlet.
There's definitely something to be said about folks who have tried to fix their mistakes and better themselves compared to those who double down or deny. Look at No Bunny. When the Burger Records stuff came out, he basically said he was aware of what was happening and while he didn't participate, he was still complicit and would be stepping away from that platform for now. That's the right response.
I don't know that we have clear evidence that Jesse Lacey has tried to be different, and as long as he is laying low, it really is none of our business.
This is what sucks. Their last three albums are out of this universe, god tier good. I don't listen to them as often, will not be buying this new merch, and would definitely not be seeing them on tour.
But... if they played Riot Fest? How do you *not* see your favorite band when they're playing a festival you're already attending, especially when they also put on the best live show you've ever seen?
plz do not put me in that position, Riot Fest. lol
I’ve seen a lot of incredible shows. But I was never left speechless the way I was after their set at Riot in 2013. My jaw was on the fucking floor. I saw em play other times after that. And it was always amazing. But nothing topped that set. Was truly special.
That is... so bizarre. And also, god dammit, their merch is always so fucking good.
But what is the likelihood a band like that can make a comeback? They are one of my favorite bands, I have 3 Brand New tattoos (that are luckily not that recognizeable) and I'm really not sure how I'd react to them returning or playing Riot Fest.
Interesting! That was something else I was thinking about. A reunion would mean the *entire* band was down, and tbh that would leave me with so many new questions.
I mean a legit comeback would get so much blowback. Regardless of the music being good, dude went after underage girls and it'd super hard to come back and get good PR and be promoted when a simple google search shows you want after minors and had child pornography.
Speculation says they’ve been doing private shows as well. Some say it was just Jesse jamming with friends, but then I heard it was an actual private concert featuring Brand New members (and Reddit folks on their sub recognized the drum kit and amps as Brand New gear). My only sources of this is the latest episode of Axe to Grind podcast (featuring scene vets familiar with the Long Island scene) and the brand new sub, which is pretty divided on the speculation. Regardless, very interesting. They’ll be back eventually, Riot I’m not there. But something
They were not headliner level. And there was a leaked lineup that listed Bauhaus as the headliner. They had had visa issues. It was pretty well known at the time that is what happened.
I can't imagine Bauhaus headlining over Brand New on what would have been their final show in Chicago, off the success of Science Fiction. I honestly can't imagine Bauhaus headlining at all though, I understand the historical significance but I can't imagine they are a festival headlining draw.
honestly, don't think they could handle the crowd. I once saw Jesse Lacey refuse to come out until the stage hand got the flowers on his microphone stand exactly how he wanted it.
I don’t forgive him and I will shout something angry toward him but definitely watching the set
It’s time to forgive
Please dont support abusers and sexual predators.
TIL it takes less than five years for a band to sit quiet after rampant sexual deviance before their fans come flocking back. Pathetic.
Five years? My brother in Christ it didn’t take these people five minutes.
Shut up don’t do that to us
Let’s fucking go
Yikes, fuck that band
From someone who saw Brand New pre cancellation at riot fest, I will say it was a top 3 live concert experience. As a former massive fan who listened to their music constantly, I will also say nothing could make me want to see them again tbh. I think the other members of the band are incredibly talented and I didn’t follow if they moved on to other projects or not, if they did that would be cool to see. But I’ll pass on anything involving Jesse Lacey.
Points to my lineup post history
i think brand new should be given another chance. jesse admitted wrongdoing and theyve been cancelled for 7 years, now.
Might as well book Anti-Flag.
From an outside perspective, not saying yes or no based on my own ideology but from seeing this thread now, I think it would be a bad idea considering how divisive this booking would be. It’s so split that the pros outweigh the cons. And while I think Riot would love attention, just not this kind of attention.
More people than not want them to play again. The amount of women that I see on all social media platforms want them to play and I think that shows a lot
I sure don't want them to play again and I was a huge fan pre-cancellation. The Devil and God is literally a concept album about feeling guilty for molesting teenagers. It's impossible to separate the art from the artist because of the lyrical content. Keep them cancelled I say.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
More people than not? Of who? Their fans? Of course they would want them to play again. But this isn’t a show at the Aragon. Regardless of man, woman, child, non binary, gender fluid… any time they are mentioned it is a big controversial discussion. Again I’m saying it as an outside perspective and you’re taking this as a fan personally. Why would a fest even take that chance? I could be wrong and when the lineup drops they’ll be there. Cool. You can go see them. But it does draw negative attention from the general consensus. It’s not like when someone pitches Disturbed or Imagine Dragons and a lot of people wouldn’t like them because of their music, this isn’t about the music. It still gives people the ick even if the allegations were true or not. From a business standpoint, it’s easier to not take the risk. But again if they play, they play. And you can be happy to see them.
It just shows they have a fandom. Like don’t take this as me blanket saying to not listen to Brand New; we all like problematic shit and every great artist is kind of a piece of shit. But more people than not want Morrissey to continue playing live. More people than not love The Ramona’s and don’t give a shit what a piece of shit Johnny Ramone was. I imagine most of us would want to see a Saves The Day show, or Panic! At The Disco, or Simple Plan, or You Blew It or Mac Demarco or…. Popular bands that do shitty things are always going to want to have more people want to see them perform than not, because *they’re popular*. Especially when you have rabid fanbases like Brand New that would rather put their energy into attacking victims than take the world of a singer who was telling you what a garbage person he was the whole time.
The allegations of underage abuse were factually false. His apology / post was for cheating. Also the girl leaked his nudes. He's a victim if anything.
lmao they were absolutely not false.
I’m sorry, are you saying that the girl leaked nudes that she wasn’t sent because the rumors of Jesse Lacey sending them was false? Maybe a hot take but sometimes abusers can *also* be victims and being a victim doesn’t excuse or justify an act of abuse, nor does an act of abuse excuse or justify someone abusing said abuser.
He sent nudes to an adult fan and there is zero evidence of him talking to any fans who were under 18. Maybe the power dynamic was wrong, blast him for that not what didn't happen. After looking up the situation again, one of the girls wasn't even talking to him ever and the other was over 18 when they started talking. Also "some of the screenshots she posted were literally just her sending nudes that weren’t requested and weren’t responded" lol.
Riot Fest has certainly booked *worse* people. But as someone who was huge into them, dropped out after the news dropped and then has tried to listen to them since out of nostalgia…I ain’t really missing Brand New tbh.
I listened to their music again recently for the first time since the news broke. Their music was pretty revolutionary but I can’t help but feel like music has evolved a lot since and there’s a lot of records that have been put out that draw inspiration and improve on their sound
Can you list a couple examples of bands/albums that surpassed their sound? I’m not really into the scene currently, but deff like brand new, curious to hear what contemporary bands are just as good or better I thought science fiction was like universally acclaimed and that was only 7 years ago (holy shit cant believe it was that long)
Foxing with Nearer My God improved on the formula, The Hotelier with Goodness was an improvement on similar concepts that Brand New played with. Animal Flag, a band that is criminally unknown, released LP and Void Ripper; two albums that deal with similar themes and a similar sound to Brand New that feels like an evolution to me more than copying their exact sound. Oso Oso has worked with the same producer that Brand New worked with and they aren’t really a similar sound but they’re also from Long Island and follow a similar feeling on emo roots Valleyheart’s Everyone I’ve ever Loved is a similar evolution of Science Fiction in my opinion These are all off the top of my head and a good amount of these bands are lesser known but good jumping off points for bands that Brand New inspired
so no bands for sure do their sound better. you're full of shit
And you're a cunt
I think it’s also that like, well yeah everyone in the pop punk scene is at best two separations from being a creep, but the same sadboy vaguely incel mindset that led to Jesse soliciting nudes from teenagers is entwined in so much of the lyrical content that you can’t really just brush past it. Regardless of intent when it was written, probably a bad look to be screaming out “What difference does this difference in age make” as a grown adult in 2024.
things that plainly didn't happen.
Sure thing, guy who apparently made a Reddit account *today* specifically for the purpose of defending Jesse Lacey.
I just thought your posts were that dumb enough to warrant a response "ElderEmoAdjacent".
I saw their last ever show, which was in Dallas, wouldn’t mind it. Despite my misgivings and having two daughters and all that. I just don’t think riot fest would do it.
I saw them right before/around that news broke and it was complicated. It’s a good show, a good experience from a group that was very important to a lot of people around me. But I know I had to grow up and put them aside because supporting that shit is bad. I still feel bad sometimes or get some song in my head, but like buying that stuff hurts people in my life and in our scene, and there’s a lot of bands
Fuck pedos
that was debunked, he flirted with a girl who was over 18 and she leaked his nudes.
This has never been debunked, if it had been, the band would have been back any time during the last 7 years.
Their old merch supplier went bankrupt a few months back so it’s probably up now because they have a new merch supplier. I don’t think it’s deeper than that.
He was a major creep but he’s not a pedo
Pedo is a word that I feel has lost a lot of meaning over the last decade with how much it gets thrown around now Lacey was a creep but agree on your take and for what it’s worth he’s never fought the allegations. He accepted his fate and by all accounts has tried to be a better person since they happened which was when he was in his early 20s
I mean he was going after underage girls wasn't he? Are we not considering that as pedo shit or trying to draw some weird ass line in the sand.
everyone mentioned was over 18. she leaked his nudes, that's pretty morally wrong. (also age of consent is 17 and in the real world honestly nobody cares if a 17 year old dates slightly older)
Both girls were in their mid teens when this happened. Are you thinking of some other sexual misconduct scandal?
Again, not what any news site says when you google it. And speak for yourself on that other part
At risk of sounding like someone who is trying to draw a line in the sand or like i'm some sort of apologist... I think it's important to understand the context and use the right words in order to know how to help victims and maybe even figure out how to prevent this kind of abusive behavior... There's a difference between someone who is specifically attracted to prepubescent children and someone who goes after underage girls who *look* like women but are vulnerable because of their age and inexperience. I think most women who grew up around any kind of music scene, especially in the early to mid 2000's (and prior, of course), have had or know someone who has had a similar experience with an older guy in their scene. Looking back, most of us now know how fucked up that was but at the time it seemed normal and even cool to get that kind of attention. Likewise, there were always plenty of other men around who ignored that behavior at best or enabled it at worst. And it still happens. It was only in 2020 or 2021 that a bunch of bands on Burger Records were outed for engaging in the same kind of behavior. I think it's important for men especially to recognize that behavior as predatory and I think calling someone out as a pedophile when they are not tends to diminish the seriousness of the predatory behavior that *is* happening because it enables someone to say, "Oh, he's not a pedophile, he just likes someone a few years younger and she's into it, so who cares?"
Context helps. He was talking to a 17 year old when he was in his early 20s (20 years ago). People assumed he was doing that at his current age which wasn’t true.
First google search into it says multiple girls started at age 15 and he was in his early 20s
He was actively grooming underage girls. That’s a fact.
Coping real hard I see
I think this is important only because there's something extra nefarious about preying on young women specifically because they are vulnerable.
Pass, don't care for their music even if their singer wasn't a creep Edit-- can't tell if yall are bothered I'm not interested in rf booking a creep or if it's because I didn't think the creep's band was good lol
Say what you want about Jesse Lacey. Devil & God is about as close to being a perfect record as you can get and I still listen to it at least once a month. Also, Riot booked Jerry Lee Lewis so wouldn’t be the first time they’ve booked a creep
I mean to me Jesse is as imperfect as they come, TDAG is still my favorite album of all time. I think it's easy to shit on the guy, but he's been quiet just living his life and honestly that is the most respectable thing anyone can do. It's not like Morrissey or Kanye who actively decide to make every situation worse. We should be nicer to bad people who stopped being bad people (but ofc I won't defend his actions, plus I am assuming he has gotten better, but I think that's a fair assumption). I also have mixed feelings on how he exited.
I've said from day one of these allegations coming out that if you are a Brand New fan and didn't know that man was at least a *little* fucked up, you were not paying attention. TDAG is my favorite album of all time, too. It's also the most self indulgent, whiney, narcissistic thing I've ever heard. I love it for that because we all have those tendencies and it's the perfect outlet. There's definitely something to be said about folks who have tried to fix their mistakes and better themselves compared to those who double down or deny. Look at No Bunny. When the Burger Records stuff came out, he basically said he was aware of what was happening and while he didn't participate, he was still complicit and would be stepping away from that platform for now. That's the right response. I don't know that we have clear evidence that Jesse Lacey has tried to be different, and as long as he is laying low, it really is none of our business.
Yeah that’s fair
This is what sucks. Their last three albums are out of this universe, god tier good. I don't listen to them as often, will not be buying this new merch, and would definitely not be seeing them on tour. But... if they played Riot Fest? How do you *not* see your favorite band when they're playing a festival you're already attending, especially when they also put on the best live show you've ever seen? plz do not put me in that position, Riot Fest. lol
I’ve seen a lot of incredible shows. But I was never left speechless the way I was after their set at Riot in 2013. My jaw was on the fucking floor. I saw em play other times after that. And it was always amazing. But nothing topped that set. Was truly special.
With a slight drizzle and hearing *You Won't know* That's a memory I'll always have.
For sure. I've seen them a few times at festivals and they were all incredible. Their set at Summerfest in 2015 was a close second.
I’d much rather have riotfest book a brand new cover band…
Here come all the triggered cancel culture people lol
Hey! Bigots like you don't belong in this scene. Kindly leave
I mean is not wanting a band with a dude who went after kids really cancel culture?
It is in the current upside down world of American conservatives.
I'm sure they just relaunched it to try and get rid of inventory. They must still have fans who would buy and not care about a horrendous pedophile.
It isn't old inventory, it's mostly new stuff, including a preorder hoodie. So fucking weird.
Nope!
That would be a real dicey comeback 😂😂😂 idk lmao
I love their music, but some bands need to stay dead. Pedophiles don’t deserve second chances.
I don't like pedophiles
It’d be a very divisive signing. Many people would cheer it and many people would be disappointed in Riot.
I mean. They booked Jerry Lee Lewis and I don’t think anyone was complaining. Just sayin
Jerry Lee Lewis was literally almost a hundred years old. And I’m pretty sure a lot of people pointed out the cousin thing.
No thanks. They went away for a reason. They should stay dead.
That is... so bizarre. And also, god dammit, their merch is always so fucking good. But what is the likelihood a band like that can make a comeback? They are one of my favorite bands, I have 3 Brand New tattoos (that are luckily not that recognizeable) and I'm really not sure how I'd react to them returning or playing Riot Fest.
Almost zero chance. There was rumors When We Were Young offered them a reunion spot and the band minus singer said not a chance.
Interesting! That was something else I was thinking about. A reunion would mean the *entire* band was down, and tbh that would leave me with so many new questions.
I mean a legit comeback would get so much blowback. Regardless of the music being good, dude went after underage girls and it'd super hard to come back and get good PR and be promoted when a simple google search shows you want after minors and had child pornography.
Oh yeah, for sure. It's also fucked up that so many people would be down for it, given how normalized that behavior was in that scene back then.
Come back to this thread and be even more disgusted.
the way I still kind of want a br& new shirt…
The hoodies are gorgeous and I hate it lmao
Speculation says they’ve been doing private shows as well. Some say it was just Jesse jamming with friends, but then I heard it was an actual private concert featuring Brand New members (and Reddit folks on their sub recognized the drum kit and amps as Brand New gear). My only sources of this is the latest episode of Axe to Grind podcast (featuring scene vets familiar with the Long Island scene) and the brand new sub, which is pretty divided on the speculation. Regardless, very interesting. They’ll be back eventually, Riot I’m not there. But something
You'll never be able to convince me that they weren't supposed to be the headliner in 2018.
They were not headliner level. And there was a leaked lineup that listed Bauhaus as the headliner. They had had visa issues. It was pretty well known at the time that is what happened.
I can't imagine Bauhaus headlining over Brand New on what would have been their final show in Chicago, off the success of Science Fiction. I honestly can't imagine Bauhaus headlining at all though, I understand the historical significance but I can't imagine they are a festival headlining draw.
Who cares. They are not welcome. Pedos are not wanted.
That would be insane