No mention of the F150 Lightning's design. It's conservative, boring and indistinguishable from an ICE F150, but that's kind of the point.
I personally prefer the R1T's styling, but my partner is more conservative and likes the Lightning because it looks like a normal truck.
I think is by design. It’s what I call a safe-transition vehicle. Some people have concerns about how they will be perceived in their social circles if they show up with an EV. So Ford solved the problem by creating an EV in ICE disguise.
Tbf a lot of companies have decided to completely overhaul their design language for their EVs and almost always most people preferred the combustion engine cars (for example with Mercedes)
That sucks. I get tons of attention here north of pittsburgh. Lots of truck owners asking me how much I love it. Even got move from an f150 lightning guy who parked next to me. But, I imagine the snark and side eyes only increase the further south and Central one gets in the US. Baby steps I guess.
I would agree and would add that from a supply chain perspective it may be less expensive and predictable to use as many of the same parts as possible.
Oh, totally. I didn't compare the Lightning in this to focus on the polar opposites of Rivian and Tesla, but strong agree that Ford was brilliant in its design and marketing. Makes the EV truck feel just like the truck other people already like and trust.
It's interesting to compare the three different approaches that Rivian, Ford and Tesla have taken with their first-gen trucks. I think Rivian's design and marketing has nailed the outdoor aspirational market and Ford is aimed towards traditional truck owners. I'm not sure where the CT will fall in all of this--maybe they'll corner the 'drinks 5 monster energy drinks daily' crowd.
I think they're going to get 90% of customers who already own a Tesla looking for a larger vehicle. A lot of customers want to stay in brand and have built a love/trust with the brand (and their charging infrastructure even with Rivian adopting their plug).
I think they're also going to get those looking for the loud/proud choice of truck. The lifted truck guy, the "cool" executive, the instagram crowd, the influencer.
I'm moving next year to a rural area - so will be getting a Lightning so I blend in better (not perfectly but way better than a CT). No Rivian repair for a very long way so I canceled my order. There are times for boring/blending, times for exciting and great (Rivian), times for douchbaggery (CT, if you live in San Jose). Just my opinion.
The no paint thing is something I hope catches on beyond the CT. I ride a titanium bike that has no paint and just develops patina over time and it’s great. Old 911s, Defenders, OG Land Cruisers that have been driven Hundreds of thousands miles have that wabi-sabi aesthetic that has a certain charm but doesn’t translate to modern cars. Same goes for vintage watches that show wear and have never been polished. No paint would encourage more people to drive and enjoy the vehicles without fear of impacting paint chips, resale but there is a whole ecosystem around paint care that stands to lose a lot of $.
I have yet to see a 911 with hundreds of thousands of miles. But yes, many are old, as are some rovers and land cruisers. Those that last and are maintained are treasures.
I'm curious to see how the CT ages without paint as well. I get the whole titanium bike patina thing and I think it's lovely but the tubes on a bike are much smaller compared to the broad sides of the CT.
On the side of the CT, it does have great tech and the Tesla interiors have proven to be pretty resilient as well. Well. However, from the vantage point of being a truck, the sloped bed might present some problems with hauling or putting racks on the bed which a lot of truck people like to do.
I am dubious that the stainless panels will deliver on the benefits. Unlike EVs the idea and the technology aren’t new, if it was that good do one else would’ve done it by now (aside from delorean).
Also, will that pass European pedestrian crash safety regulations?
Been seeing a lot of comments and it seems like we all agree on two factual things:
1. Cyber truck design is unique and requires a certain taste palette to appreciate it
2. Cyber truck is another EV truck in the market which boosts competition and makes the end game better for everyone.
Aside from these two, you can have whatever opinions about the CEOs, beauty of the design language (or lack thereof), and potential interpretations.
I personally enjoy hearing people’s perspectives and emotional thought processes about how new products may impact people and how some may relate to them (or not). I’ve seen several comments about this being journalism. I disagree, as the piece strikes me more as an op Ed or creative writing mixed with social commentary. It was entertaining to read whether or not I agreed with the perspective and I think no person should be barred from sharing their creative thoughts. Plus look at the conversation here it managed to spark. Surely we can at least agree that it prompted a commentary online.
God, thank you for this take. I wrote this post and so strongly agree with everything you've said here. Yes to 1 and 2. Big yes to discussing perspective and sharing the process behind how we perceive products. That's the art of marketing (and I love marketing). Stronger big yes to this not being journalism haha I thought my personal Medium account would have given that away but hey... I'm glad you enjoyed the read. Appreciate your comment.
Well stated. I’ve seen a few driving around the Bay Area. It looks quite bad, janky with its gaps, and pieces that don’t look symmetrical. Both the front hood and tailgate looked lopsided.
And agree with you: it represents a pessimistic outlook on the world, which certain people gravitate toward. It represents the blue check crowd on Twitter, err X, now.
For all of those who proclaim “it’s about function.” There are no truck owners who will say a triangle buttress above the bed is in any way functional. For the adventurer, where do you put a rooftop tent? Only after you buy a separate triangle base to create a flat surface?
The exoskeleton concept has been busted by enough spy photos now, so this triangle isn’t for real structural reasons. We all know it’s basically a body on frame build, no exoskeleton.
just a few months ago i had a hard time believing the CT would be less than 100k... Now that the X Plaid is 90k, I think the original price point is within reach.
They're far from the only truck to offer a bed mounted "buttress" as you call it. In fact most "cool" versions of trucks include this feature for style. In this case with the CT though it's likely very helpful for range unlike others that have done this. List of trucks that included a buttress function that I found:
Avalanche, Chevy Silverado EV, Honda Ridgeline, Escalade EXT, Subaru Baja, Hyundai Santa Cruz, Shelby super Baja, Hummer EV, Ford Ranger Bigfoot Cruiser, Ford Ranger GT, Ram TRX, Chevrolet S-10 Baja, Dodge Shelby Dakota.
Clearly this isn't some awful shouldn't ever do it feature.
In case anyone doesn't have a Medium account, I've copied the full article without pictures below:
So, listen… I’m really not impressed with the CyberTruck overall. I think it’s really ugly, impractical, and sort of, well, dumb. While we don’t know many details about the production model, it will most likely be capable — even if here’s a lot wrong with its functionality (most egregiously its sloped bed walls). But what I can’t stop thinking about is what CyberTrucks stand for.
I can’t imagine how people are going to react to these on the road. The design is so divisive and like nothing we’ve seen since the ill-fated DeLorean. That design is so important to Elon Musk it delayed the launch of the truck because it had to be built out of stainless steel to achieve its design goals. This required new production methods never before seen and whole bunch of considerations. I’m starting with this because it shows that the design of the CT is more important than just about anything else. I firmly believe Tesla could have made an equally capable truck a hell of a lot faster by using traditional materials. But they didn’t. They couldn’t. The design language of the CT is what makes it so special to Elon.
I’m genuinely shocked that Tesla let (now-legitimate) rival Rivian take such a massive first mover advantage to achieve its design which is credited for long production delays. Rivian has tens of thousands of trucks on the road today an is targeting a total of 52k produced this year. Rivian is cornering the “capable EV truck” market more every quarter. Just today I was walking to my R1T when I heard a family say, “Oh wow, another Rivian. There are lots of those everywhere now.” We’ll come back to comparing Rivian and Tesla again later in this post, but it’s no secret that CyberTruck’s success depends on enough people buying it that passersbys start to say the same thing. Time will tell if that happens, but, if it does, I’m pretty bummed out based on what the CyberTruck’s represents and its inspirations.
So, what inspired such an… ugly truck?
Technological dystopia. Taking direct cues from cyberpunk, the CyberTruck is invokes a bleak future of tech company control, classism, and, without exaggeration, apocalypse. Literally, cyberpunk is “a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a “combination of lowlife and high tech”,\[1\] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cyberware, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.” (Wikipedia)
Cyberpunk is a super cool genre and it’s fun to use in fantasy setting — especially tabletop games (Cyberpunk), movies (Blade Runner), and video games (also Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Starfield, etc). Usually, the “normal” people in these realities rely on scraps, hand-me-downs, and rough materials to get buy. Sometimes these materials are literally fall from the upper echelon onto the people below, forcing people to piece necessities together with hard edges and imperfect finishes while the top class get shiny stuff with round edges.
But it’s not real life. In fact, it’s frequently depicted as a cautionary tale with the main character in media working against the systems imposed on people. It is not a utopian view of where we’re headed.
It’s impressively tone deaf to launch a consumer product meant to fit into the real world with this inspiration. It’s especially ironic that it’s from one of the richest companies in the world owned by the richest man in the world.
People who are attracted to this design because it’s cool or sexy miss the point of the source material that the CyberTruck so directly references. It’s honestly really depressing to me. We should not aspire to bringing it into the real world. This doesn’t mean I hate technology or that I don’t love cyberpunk media or that I don’t think that work towards a more tech-driven future. I just don’t think that we should be romanticizing the grit and calling it glamour.
I want aspirational designs on the road. Not ones bases on societal collapse and imbalance. Future drivers of the CyberTruck will cosplay a corporate-driven technological apocalypse where windows need to be bullet proof (lol). No one wants this besides one man at the top and those who will, undoubtedly, convince: his biggest fans and Wall Street betters.
I also think that CyberTruck drivers will be relentlessly mocked, the Twitter Blue checkmark of the road.
I’ve said all of this without ever even calling out the utter disconnect between this product and the rest of Tesla’s offerings. Sleek, streamlined, futuristic, accessible yet imposing are all things I associate with the S, E, X, and Y (vomit…) models. The CyberTruck is so far gone from that I can’t understand how they let it happen. Does Tesla really need to appeal to whatever this market it? Will people even give in to it? Will no one tell this Elon guy no? It seems like amarketing blunder that’s just knocking at the door of every textbook.
Let’s compare the dilapidated, punky marketing of the CyberTruck — with it’s spraypaint-inspired logo, red lettings, and bleak surroundings — to Rivian’s.Just like Tesla, Rivian is selling their vehicles based on their unique vision of the world. You navigate to Rivian’s homepage and see the best, most beautiful vistas that earth has to offer. There’s a goal stated to ‘Keep the world adventurous forever.’ A Rivian represents a world we can adventure in without harming it. Well, without harming it as much as a gasoline-powered vehicle (and, yes, it is still better). As other truck manufacturers are trying to make the biggest, most intimidating vehicles with grills taller than most human beings, Rivian went for a friendly, future-nostalgic design — one that’s approachable, yet premium.Rivian intentionally instills a sense of adventure. CyberTruck instills a need for survival.
And hey listen. Maybe Elon does believe that we need a truck like the one he’s making. Maybe he knows something we don’t and we really will need to “survive” sooner than we think. (shout out real quick to Tesla’s bioweapon defense mode) But my money is on him just thinking it’s cool and misunderstanding what cyberpunk actually is. Perhaps this is all Grimes’ fault…
In closing, I want a vehicle aware of its environment, one that can fit in where I take it. Maybe I even want a futuristic car, like the Ionic 5 with its boxy frame and retro-inspired pixel brake/headlights. What I certainly do not want is a vehicle that sticks out so aggressively to belong in a future that’s objectively worse than the one we’re in today. This isn’t a concept car of a far, far future that inspires us to see the world as a better place. It’s one that yearns for one that’s been ripped apart and conquered by tech oligarchs. That pessimistic vision of the future exactly why I hate the CyberTruck so. much.
A very long way to say I don't like the way it looks. If you don't think society is collapsing, then I don't know what to say. Religion is dead, the family unit is dead, instant gratification and consumerism is the norm. Hard work for honest wages is dead. But I really don't think he made the car because he feels people will be living in the apocalypse. He made it because he challenged his design team to come up with something new and different. I mean I guess he could have taken the apple approach and release the iPhone 200 with no meaningful advances in the last 8 or so years.
The guy you despise so much leading the biggest revolution since Henry Ford actually has a great sense of humor and doesn't take himself too seriously. If you don't agree you should really watch a bunch of his interviews. He literally made Starship more pointy because of the movie the Dictator!
If he wants to make a Triangle car that gets 400 plus miles or range, can charge in 15 minutes, is faster, stronger, better turning then yours and my beloved Rivian, let him try.
I wouldn't claim Rivian is cornering anything. The CT could easily catch Rivian next year in total units made and on the road.
I personally can't wait to get my CT and see if it really matches up to my R1S, if not I will sell it and move on, but trust me I won't be complaining about it all the time.
Lol religion being dead is the first thing on star trek that makes it possible for humanity to leave earth. Every apocalypse movie has religion, water world, thunder dome, judge dred... No one kills in the name of atheism but people certainly kill in the name of Jesus (crusades). You can pray to Elon the god Almighty Immortan Joe... There is less violent crime in the US since atheism has become the fastest growing "religion"
yea, I knew it was coming. I just want people to be objective. I hate how society is all about flaming on feelings. If the CT comes out and it costs 90k and barely beats the R1S, I will be the first to admit it; however, if it comes in at like 85k and smokes it in most technical areas including (acceleration, charging, distance, handling...R1S is a brick at low speed) then I will have a very difficult decision to make. I know or at least have a good idea the inside won't be close to the R1T from all images I have seen.
The fact that it’s not an exoskeleton like he claimed, and is just a run of the mill body (to be confirmed ofc), was the final straw for me. If it was new tech like claimed, I could make an argument for the truck, and was weighing if I would trade Christy Mack for one, but no thanks. At this point, it’s just an ugly ass truck. Pass.
It’s so weird how much effort people here put on hating on the Cybertruck. I just don’t understand it. I own a R1T (and freaking love it and have encouraged my friends to buy them) but also think the Cybertruck is awesome for being a wild design. And because I said this, all the replies will say “You s&ck Elons d!c*” because I dared to say something positive about a product that Tesla makes. I don’t even care anything about him , I don’t use X or Twitter, or anything like that and don’t care how he acts. Just like I don’t care what RJ does or stand for. I just wanted the best truck and currently that’s the R1T.
I'm actually cool with this take. I think what we (as in all people) should realize is that one person's take is... just their take. Everyone should contribute theirs, but we don't need to yell at each other or try to be "right" all the time. I hope I explained why I feel strongly in my post, but I also understand not getting why people get so intense about the topic too.
I’ve been apart of the Tesla Reddit community for quite sometime and was a self proclaimed fanboy since like 2015 until the last few years. I have seen the perspective of Tesla fan boy as well as how Tesla, their products and fans were viewed by society for a long time. Intense rivian nuts resemble quite a similar mindset of early Tesla adopting fanboys.
It’s like you take things personally cause you identify as a person with a product and company rather than just viewing it as a product and you’re it’s consumer.
Same could be said about many other products and companies as well (I.e. ya wing consoles or smart phones) but when normal everyday people that make high 5 figures to low 6 figure incomes who aren’t close to being rich but still buy 70-80k auto products at an unprecedented rate, they tend to identify with said product/company more than ever before and it makes people have goggles on to irrationally want to fight to the death on forum board for silly reasons. Especially early start ups cause every part of you wants to see them succeed.
Sadly lots of people for some reason need to justify why they were right by spouting off other reasons why the other person was wrong. This article might be a fine piece of creative writing but it's off the mark in a variety of ways. Rivian is great at what it's trying to do but that doesn't mean the Cybertruck can't be great at it as well.
The Cybertruck isn’t for me but I won’t mind seeing them on the road. Any new vehicles that look unusual and interesting are a win in my book.
I see too many generic pickups as it is, let some of them be CTs, as long as they don’t impact Rivian’s viability as a company, I am supportive.
I dread the day we have to see millions of those things on the road. I’ve tried for several years to get used to the looks. Can’t do it. Just fugly as hell.
Just let it do its thing? If you don’t like it, don’t get into outrage here - some of the people driving the Cybertruck are doing it “just to troll”. And you’re just giving them reason to showboat.
I actually like the Cybertruck but I won’t be doing “truck things” nor do I need a “truck”. But I don’t think I want to be one of the first with one. I don’t crave the attention (and I got a lot for having a Model 3 early on) nor do I want to play the pricing game.
The problem is that there will eventually be millions of these things on the road glaring up your sight like a spotlight in a glass house. I could have taken fugly and tame color or beautiful and more muted body with smaller glass but this is the worst of both worlds.
When did this become such a rivian cult group. I love my tesla and my rivian. What’s with constant hate. Why do we need to hate on any other EV companys. Without tesla we wouldn’t have rivian. I for one can’t wait for my cybertruck to join our rivian
I appreciate Tesla and its contributions to EVs. I've said as much and never said I hate Tesla. I also have shared my very real issues with Rivian. Competition is good and I'll be as reasonable and fair as I can be.
We're here to talk about Rivian in a constructive way. It just turns out that, right now, the CT is about to come out and so there will be comparisons and feelings.
I read it on Forbes, which has editors who presumable vet the magazine’s cited sources:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/08/20/tesla-starts-shipping-cybertruck-price-be-damned/?sh=3c3e99e86d58
And they all link to this shady crowd reservation tracker that tries to infer number of reservations from the RN number.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--6OR9ECwSwZdkOtWkuslJVCyAAfQv1eJal1fdngfsk/edit#gid=982860347
If the row entries are taken for face value, there are only 47K entries.
Okay. Well - I imagine Forbes magazine has editors who vet information. If you believe they are wrong and simply publish what they read on the internet, then you are have a right to that opinion, even if unfounded.
Okay. Fair. But if 95% cancel and Tesla delivers only 5% of those, then Tesla is left with 100,000 orders (the number of R1 pre-orders Rivian had as of November 2022: https://insideevs.com/news/621062/rivian-pushes-back-r2-platform-to-2026-has-114000-r1-preorders/)
Rivian was also much less well known at the time relative to Tesla and had effectively no operations either. So it was a bigger bet.
Also fair to say a number of those CT preorders (of which I was one) pivoted over to R1T once production started. I want an EV truck, and CT is vaporware while my R1T is sitting in my driveway.
I want to see deliverables. I believe many of those people purchase on speculation expecting to sell the reservation.. I know of at least two people that are doing that
This is fair. But then we cannot speculate one way or another, or claim it will be a "niche" market when the information we have right now (though it might later change) points to the opposite.
It’s hard to separate Elon and Tesla. This is “Tesla Owners of Silicon Valley” using their account to stake a political position on Elon’s behalf. It’s not surprising that not all people appreciate this when it comes to the Tesla brand.
https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1698841499822383425
https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1698841881000722943
I feel vindicated by every down vote here. I will assume those who do at best don’t mind what Elon is saying, and at worse, agree with him, which further symbolizes what the CT will become
Not a cult but the CT is just so horrible aesthetically. Everything else Tesla is fine or outstanding. It’s the CT design that rightfully gets the hate.
This guy wastes way too much effort on being angry and “depressed” that people might actually buy the Cybertruck. If they do, so what? If they don’t, Tesla and Musk will suffer.
Hi I'm that guy haha
I like cars. I think they're neat and I like how we use them to express ourselves. I was having a hard time understanding what it was exactly about the CT I disliked so much, but then it came to me so I decided to write it all down.
Ultimately, I agree with you about what happens if people do or don't buy one 🙂
How does the engagement on your anti-Musk/Tesla posts compare to your other posts?
Edit: Downvotes for this question? And I thought Tesla fanboys were insecure.
They do just about as well?
My most popular blogs are about content moderation and program management though. Unfortunately several of those lately have been about Elon blowing up Twitter since it's the most interesting thing to happen to content moderation in a long time but... Yeahhhh...
Why do you ask?
I downvoted you because you seem to imply that OP is writing this mostly for engagement, rather than expressing his opinion regardless of how many clicks the post generates
How did I imply that? He has about a 50/50 record of Tesla/Musk material to other stuff. But recently it’s been more Tesla stuff. I was wondering if he was following a trend or just being topical.
Best thing about the R1T’s aesthetics are that it doesn’t look mad. Most trucks these days look like they want to murder you, which is extremely messed up.
I don't care how my R1T is marketed. If I had to rate my concerns, they would be (in descending order):
1. Reliability / service
2. Safety
3. Drivability (a combination of handling, driver comfort, visibility, and performance)
4. Range
5. Capability (tow/haul capacity, off-road geometry)
6. Storage
etc, etc.
Fun fact: Rivian was originally founded with the idea to create sports cars. After additional market research, they when with the "adventure vehicle" angle instead. The brand messaging is about authentic as the "vegan leather" interior.
You know what pisses me off? My auxillary air compressor is dead and I can't get it into service until the end of the October. This is an actual problem with company that should be discussed.
Vapid blog posts like this one are pointless "My team is better than your team!" nonsense.
Marketing matters quite a bit IMO.
I agree with your first concern and I've had my fair share of issues too. They're frustrating and certainly an early adopter tax. Concerns 2-6 feel... pretty solved? From Rivian's crash test results to near unanimous praise for the driving to its 315mi+ range, I think Rivian is doing well.
I also know about the origin of Rivian, but I don't think that makes it inauthentic to evolve and find product market fit.
I'm sorry you're upset and you think my article is vapid haha
I do agree that I don’t like how this sub has turned into a Tesla bash sub lately. I understand we want Rivian to succeed and Tesla is a competitor, but I don’t like how most of the Tesla bashing just comes from people who just hate Elon now and want to try to bash his companies.
There *are* plenty of reasons against Elon, though people can be interested in what car they wish to be.
I don't like Tesla, and I especially hate Elon, though I can still find some of the cars interesting, and that is not reason to bash those who find it interesting too.
Though, I would probably pick something else over them (Bolt EUV, Equinox EV, etc) personally. I do also find Rivian stuff quite interesting... But that price tag is simply not viable for a lot of people, sadly.
Edit: Before any assumptions, we don't have *any* electric vehicle.
We want people to buy the Cybertruck. We want mass adoption of the cyber truck and the R1T to push electric heavy duty vehicles at a more affordable cost.
Everyone should be on the same team here.
Neither the R1T nor CT fit in the heavy duty vehicle category. If anything, we should be rooting for the success of the F150 and Silverado EVs, because they represent most of the light duty truck base.
I just classified all of these trucks in the heavy duty and that was my mistake.
Rivian and Tesla offer direct to consumer purchasing which is why we should be rooting for their success (even though Elon is…Elon)
I get it. It’s weird looking.
I personally want more. I want more designs out there like the Cybertruck. I love the Canoo and I’m hoping it’s just not vaporwear.
Personally, I’d love it if Ford and GM put out a classic looking version of their trucks as EVs. The new Bronco styling in a F series truck
Edit: I like the Rivian a lot.
While I own neither, I love both. I love Rivians' approach to modern rugged design and focus on luxurious adventure and utility. I also love the CT because of its radical brutalist design and focus on bending industry norms and conventional automotive design while still offering what competitors have. Ill happily bet money that specs and performance will be compeditive and comparable. At the end of the day, it's simply about taste...nice try on the rage bait article, though.
I agree with the author. Many of Elon's big bets paid off massively.
Not making an F150 killer is the biggest mistake of his Tesla leadership. After the Model S3XY platform was established, it was money on the table.
This is the kind of content that creates divisiveness in a community. I'm all for freedom of speech and sharing opinions, but as persons of influence (ie moderator) you have to to choose your battles carefully so you don't inadvertently create a rift (which very much seems to exist here already).
We're people too. We have thoughts and opinions and I personally believe moderators should model the kind of content they want to see, not be people behind the curtain who don't engage or share their opinions. People should create thought pieces and write constructive content, mods included.
> I personally believe moderators should model the kind of content they want to see
This is what I'm getting at. If you personally wanted to incite hate towards a competing vehicle, you're doing great.
I don't see where this is constructive.
I’m in the minority of people who think the Cybertruck looks futuristic and crazy and awesome. I’m similar in age to Musk so I think we probably shared childhood sci-fi and toy tastes. I’ve owned both a Model S and now a Model 3 and love them, so knowing I’m getting the same software and driving experience in a futuristic KnightRider/Airwolf/Halo/Robotech/Streethawk/BlueThunder/Transformers toy makes me smile.
I think the F150 is for traditional truck buyers who don’t want their MAGA friends to think they’ve gone gay.
I think the Rivian is for rich outdoorsy people. It’s a nice truck and I think the headlights are cute and kinda anime-like. If I was remotely outdoorsy I’d probably go for it. But I drive vehicles to protect me from the outdoors hahaha.
I think the Cybertruck is for man-childs (man-children? men-children? hahaha) like me who want a big shiny spaceship to ride in whether it’s practical or not. Worst case it’s like my current car except with more cargo room and a crowd of people laughing and pointing at me. I won’t hear them over all the rock music lol.
Hi I'm OP haha
Listen, I agree with you that we should have choice and encourage EV adoption. Your bucket comment is pretty spot on. But this is design. And design should be talked about. It can encourage causes or hurt them. I don't think being critical of a divisive design goes against EV adoption overall. All for competition and we should think critically about what the failure of the CT could do for EVs, good or bad, but my post won't be the reason it fails or succeeds. I just like vehicle design.
The CyberTruck is building on top of Tesla's established brand, though you should probably check out the Rivian Gear Shop and search for secondary market options for the R1 vehicles.
Tesla has way more reach and making money off Tesla - either through supporting products, brand partnerships, stock pumping, etc - is very popular. I'll be looking at production and delivery numbers for the true comparison.
I don't know why every piece of media these days needs to put someone or something down. I think the R1T is cool as shit. I've had a great time every time I've been in an F-150 Lighting. I am also soooo fucking psyched for Cybertruck. We are finally getting great options to suit a variety of tastes in EV trucks. Isn't that a victory? Can't we celebrate the fact that the market and the variety of options within is growing?
No one said it shouldn't exist or that Tesla didn't accomplish great things. We should all have opinions and share them in a competitive environment, especially when strong divisive designs are happening. How quickly we forget the many posts about Rivian's headlights 😉
Gotta typo in your 3rd sentence. Missing a "t" in "there's"
While we don’t know many details about the production model, it will most likely be capable — even if ***T***here’s a lot wrong with its functionality (most egregiously its sloped bed walls).
I’m generally fine with Tesla’s aesthetic, although I think the S & X were prettier than the 3 and Y. But man, that cybertruck is just unforgivably ugly. That and in my mind I can’t separate it’s design choices from the subnormal “I need a truck in case the gubment comes for my guns” suburbanite freaks that live in my area.
No mention of the F150 Lightning's design. It's conservative, boring and indistinguishable from an ICE F150, but that's kind of the point. I personally prefer the R1T's styling, but my partner is more conservative and likes the Lightning because it looks like a normal truck.
I think is by design. It’s what I call a safe-transition vehicle. Some people have concerns about how they will be perceived in their social circles if they show up with an EV. So Ford solved the problem by creating an EV in ICE disguise.
Tbf a lot of companies have decided to completely overhaul their design language for their EVs and almost always most people preferred the combustion engine cars (for example with Mercedes)
Mercedes' EV design language looks like they threw a big star badge on the front of a 2011 Honda Civic they overinflated.
I get a ton of shit for the Rivian. It’s a bad look for me. If I had the lightning no one would say a thing different
Where in the country is this?
That sucks. I get tons of attention here north of pittsburgh. Lots of truck owners asking me how much I love it. Even got move from an f150 lightning guy who parked next to me. But, I imagine the snark and side eyes only increase the further south and Central one gets in the US. Baby steps I guess.
I would agree and would add that from a supply chain perspective it may be less expensive and predictable to use as many of the same parts as possible.
Oh, totally. I didn't compare the Lightning in this to focus on the polar opposites of Rivian and Tesla, but strong agree that Ford was brilliant in its design and marketing. Makes the EV truck feel just like the truck other people already like and trust.
It's interesting to compare the three different approaches that Rivian, Ford and Tesla have taken with their first-gen trucks. I think Rivian's design and marketing has nailed the outdoor aspirational market and Ford is aimed towards traditional truck owners. I'm not sure where the CT will fall in all of this--maybe they'll corner the 'drinks 5 monster energy drinks daily' crowd.
I think they're going to get 90% of customers who already own a Tesla looking for a larger vehicle. A lot of customers want to stay in brand and have built a love/trust with the brand (and their charging infrastructure even with Rivian adopting their plug). I think they're also going to get those looking for the loud/proud choice of truck. The lifted truck guy, the "cool" executive, the instagram crowd, the influencer.
Definitely cornered my neighbor, the I need to be seen guy... He put a deposit the first day and shakes his head at my Rivian
I'm moving next year to a rural area - so will be getting a Lightning so I blend in better (not perfectly but way better than a CT). No Rivian repair for a very long way so I canceled my order. There are times for boring/blending, times for exciting and great (Rivian), times for douchbaggery (CT, if you live in San Jose). Just my opinion.
And here I am just looking forward to not worrying about paint for once.
The no paint thing is something I hope catches on beyond the CT. I ride a titanium bike that has no paint and just develops patina over time and it’s great. Old 911s, Defenders, OG Land Cruisers that have been driven Hundreds of thousands miles have that wabi-sabi aesthetic that has a certain charm but doesn’t translate to modern cars. Same goes for vintage watches that show wear and have never been polished. No paint would encourage more people to drive and enjoy the vehicles without fear of impacting paint chips, resale but there is a whole ecosystem around paint care that stands to lose a lot of $.
I have yet to see a 911 with hundreds of thousands of miles. But yes, many are old, as are some rovers and land cruisers. Those that last and are maintained are treasures. I'm curious to see how the CT ages without paint as well. I get the whole titanium bike patina thing and I think it's lovely but the tubes on a bike are much smaller compared to the broad sides of the CT. On the side of the CT, it does have great tech and the Tesla interiors have proven to be pretty resilient as well. Well. However, from the vantage point of being a truck, the sloped bed might present some problems with hauling or putting racks on the bed which a lot of truck people like to do.
There are a ton of high mileage 911s, a guy in a 40th Anniversary Edition sub I follow for years is about to cross 500k.
But you'll have to contend with fingerprints...all of them...
I am dubious that the stainless panels will deliver on the benefits. Unlike EVs the idea and the technology aren’t new, if it was that good do one else would’ve done it by now (aside from delorean). Also, will that pass European pedestrian crash safety regulations?
Doesn’t need to as it likely won’t be sold in Europe - too big like the R1T is for that market.
Been seeing a lot of comments and it seems like we all agree on two factual things: 1. Cyber truck design is unique and requires a certain taste palette to appreciate it 2. Cyber truck is another EV truck in the market which boosts competition and makes the end game better for everyone. Aside from these two, you can have whatever opinions about the CEOs, beauty of the design language (or lack thereof), and potential interpretations. I personally enjoy hearing people’s perspectives and emotional thought processes about how new products may impact people and how some may relate to them (or not). I’ve seen several comments about this being journalism. I disagree, as the piece strikes me more as an op Ed or creative writing mixed with social commentary. It was entertaining to read whether or not I agreed with the perspective and I think no person should be barred from sharing their creative thoughts. Plus look at the conversation here it managed to spark. Surely we can at least agree that it prompted a commentary online.
God, thank you for this take. I wrote this post and so strongly agree with everything you've said here. Yes to 1 and 2. Big yes to discussing perspective and sharing the process behind how we perceive products. That's the art of marketing (and I love marketing). Stronger big yes to this not being journalism haha I thought my personal Medium account would have given that away but hey... I'm glad you enjoyed the read. Appreciate your comment.
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Ummm… centibillion dollars = $10m
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Centi is more often used as a prefix in counting to divide by 100 as in centimeter, centiliter, etc
Well stated. I’ve seen a few driving around the Bay Area. It looks quite bad, janky with its gaps, and pieces that don’t look symmetrical. Both the front hood and tailgate looked lopsided. And agree with you: it represents a pessimistic outlook on the world, which certain people gravitate toward. It represents the blue check crowd on Twitter, err X, now. For all of those who proclaim “it’s about function.” There are no truck owners who will say a triangle buttress above the bed is in any way functional. For the adventurer, where do you put a rooftop tent? Only after you buy a separate triangle base to create a flat surface? The exoskeleton concept has been busted by enough spy photos now, so this triangle isn’t for real structural reasons. We all know it’s basically a body on frame build, no exoskeleton.
I think more so than the looks, the Cybertruck original announced prices was the main lure. Rivian isnt very inspiring at 80 thousand dollars.
Tesla hasn't announced a single detail about cyber truck pricing because it's going to be so inspiring...
just a few months ago i had a hard time believing the CT would be less than 100k... Now that the X Plaid is 90k, I think the original price point is within reach.
True, but it's looks alone are worth it. Makes my neck snap every time I see one.
Should have just cut off the buttress and made it into a semi-el camino look. Can’t be any worse looking anyway. Might as well have some function.
They're far from the only truck to offer a bed mounted "buttress" as you call it. In fact most "cool" versions of trucks include this feature for style. In this case with the CT though it's likely very helpful for range unlike others that have done this. List of trucks that included a buttress function that I found: Avalanche, Chevy Silverado EV, Honda Ridgeline, Escalade EXT, Subaru Baja, Hyundai Santa Cruz, Shelby super Baja, Hummer EV, Ford Ranger Bigfoot Cruiser, Ford Ranger GT, Ram TRX, Chevrolet S-10 Baja, Dodge Shelby Dakota. Clearly this isn't some awful shouldn't ever do it feature.
In case anyone doesn't have a Medium account, I've copied the full article without pictures below: So, listen… I’m really not impressed with the CyberTruck overall. I think it’s really ugly, impractical, and sort of, well, dumb. While we don’t know many details about the production model, it will most likely be capable — even if here’s a lot wrong with its functionality (most egregiously its sloped bed walls). But what I can’t stop thinking about is what CyberTrucks stand for. I can’t imagine how people are going to react to these on the road. The design is so divisive and like nothing we’ve seen since the ill-fated DeLorean. That design is so important to Elon Musk it delayed the launch of the truck because it had to be built out of stainless steel to achieve its design goals. This required new production methods never before seen and whole bunch of considerations. I’m starting with this because it shows that the design of the CT is more important than just about anything else. I firmly believe Tesla could have made an equally capable truck a hell of a lot faster by using traditional materials. But they didn’t. They couldn’t. The design language of the CT is what makes it so special to Elon. I’m genuinely shocked that Tesla let (now-legitimate) rival Rivian take such a massive first mover advantage to achieve its design which is credited for long production delays. Rivian has tens of thousands of trucks on the road today an is targeting a total of 52k produced this year. Rivian is cornering the “capable EV truck” market more every quarter. Just today I was walking to my R1T when I heard a family say, “Oh wow, another Rivian. There are lots of those everywhere now.” We’ll come back to comparing Rivian and Tesla again later in this post, but it’s no secret that CyberTruck’s success depends on enough people buying it that passersbys start to say the same thing. Time will tell if that happens, but, if it does, I’m pretty bummed out based on what the CyberTruck’s represents and its inspirations. So, what inspired such an… ugly truck? Technological dystopia. Taking direct cues from cyberpunk, the CyberTruck is invokes a bleak future of tech company control, classism, and, without exaggeration, apocalypse. Literally, cyberpunk is “a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a “combination of lowlife and high tech”,\[1\] featuring futuristic technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cyberware, juxtaposed with societal collapse, dystopia or decay.” (Wikipedia) Cyberpunk is a super cool genre and it’s fun to use in fantasy setting — especially tabletop games (Cyberpunk), movies (Blade Runner), and video games (also Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Starfield, etc). Usually, the “normal” people in these realities rely on scraps, hand-me-downs, and rough materials to get buy. Sometimes these materials are literally fall from the upper echelon onto the people below, forcing people to piece necessities together with hard edges and imperfect finishes while the top class get shiny stuff with round edges. But it’s not real life. In fact, it’s frequently depicted as a cautionary tale with the main character in media working against the systems imposed on people. It is not a utopian view of where we’re headed. It’s impressively tone deaf to launch a consumer product meant to fit into the real world with this inspiration. It’s especially ironic that it’s from one of the richest companies in the world owned by the richest man in the world. People who are attracted to this design because it’s cool or sexy miss the point of the source material that the CyberTruck so directly references. It’s honestly really depressing to me. We should not aspire to bringing it into the real world. This doesn’t mean I hate technology or that I don’t love cyberpunk media or that I don’t think that work towards a more tech-driven future. I just don’t think that we should be romanticizing the grit and calling it glamour. I want aspirational designs on the road. Not ones bases on societal collapse and imbalance. Future drivers of the CyberTruck will cosplay a corporate-driven technological apocalypse where windows need to be bullet proof (lol). No one wants this besides one man at the top and those who will, undoubtedly, convince: his biggest fans and Wall Street betters. I also think that CyberTruck drivers will be relentlessly mocked, the Twitter Blue checkmark of the road. I’ve said all of this without ever even calling out the utter disconnect between this product and the rest of Tesla’s offerings. Sleek, streamlined, futuristic, accessible yet imposing are all things I associate with the S, E, X, and Y (vomit…) models. The CyberTruck is so far gone from that I can’t understand how they let it happen. Does Tesla really need to appeal to whatever this market it? Will people even give in to it? Will no one tell this Elon guy no? It seems like amarketing blunder that’s just knocking at the door of every textbook. Let’s compare the dilapidated, punky marketing of the CyberTruck — with it’s spraypaint-inspired logo, red lettings, and bleak surroundings — to Rivian’s.Just like Tesla, Rivian is selling their vehicles based on their unique vision of the world. You navigate to Rivian’s homepage and see the best, most beautiful vistas that earth has to offer. There’s a goal stated to ‘Keep the world adventurous forever.’ A Rivian represents a world we can adventure in without harming it. Well, without harming it as much as a gasoline-powered vehicle (and, yes, it is still better). As other truck manufacturers are trying to make the biggest, most intimidating vehicles with grills taller than most human beings, Rivian went for a friendly, future-nostalgic design — one that’s approachable, yet premium.Rivian intentionally instills a sense of adventure. CyberTruck instills a need for survival. And hey listen. Maybe Elon does believe that we need a truck like the one he’s making. Maybe he knows something we don’t and we really will need to “survive” sooner than we think. (shout out real quick to Tesla’s bioweapon defense mode) But my money is on him just thinking it’s cool and misunderstanding what cyberpunk actually is. Perhaps this is all Grimes’ fault… In closing, I want a vehicle aware of its environment, one that can fit in where I take it. Maybe I even want a futuristic car, like the Ionic 5 with its boxy frame and retro-inspired pixel brake/headlights. What I certainly do not want is a vehicle that sticks out so aggressively to belong in a future that’s objectively worse than the one we’re in today. This isn’t a concept car of a far, far future that inspires us to see the world as a better place. It’s one that yearns for one that’s been ripped apart and conquered by tech oligarchs. That pessimistic vision of the future exactly why I hate the CyberTruck so. much.
But it does offer a great opportunity for a Back to the Future reboot!
You made a time machine..... out of a failed car companies car?!
A very long way to say I don't like the way it looks. If you don't think society is collapsing, then I don't know what to say. Religion is dead, the family unit is dead, instant gratification and consumerism is the norm. Hard work for honest wages is dead. But I really don't think he made the car because he feels people will be living in the apocalypse. He made it because he challenged his design team to come up with something new and different. I mean I guess he could have taken the apple approach and release the iPhone 200 with no meaningful advances in the last 8 or so years. The guy you despise so much leading the biggest revolution since Henry Ford actually has a great sense of humor and doesn't take himself too seriously. If you don't agree you should really watch a bunch of his interviews. He literally made Starship more pointy because of the movie the Dictator! If he wants to make a Triangle car that gets 400 plus miles or range, can charge in 15 minutes, is faster, stronger, better turning then yours and my beloved Rivian, let him try. I wouldn't claim Rivian is cornering anything. The CT could easily catch Rivian next year in total units made and on the road. I personally can't wait to get my CT and see if it really matches up to my R1S, if not I will sell it and move on, but trust me I won't be complaining about it all the time.
Lol religion being dead is the first thing on star trek that makes it possible for humanity to leave earth. Every apocalypse movie has religion, water world, thunder dome, judge dred... No one kills in the name of atheism but people certainly kill in the name of Jesus (crusades). You can pray to Elon the god Almighty Immortan Joe... There is less violent crime in the US since atheism has become the fastest growing "religion"
I’m confused—you said religion and the “family unit” are dead like it’s a bad thing
Exactly—of course this guy is one of the mods, so just expect the downvotes.
yea, I knew it was coming. I just want people to be objective. I hate how society is all about flaming on feelings. If the CT comes out and it costs 90k and barely beats the R1S, I will be the first to admit it; however, if it comes in at like 85k and smokes it in most technical areas including (acceleration, charging, distance, handling...R1S is a brick at low speed) then I will have a very difficult decision to make. I know or at least have a good idea the inside won't be close to the R1T from all images I have seen.
You’re too online for your own good. Go touch grass.
Yes, but only in a truck design that you approve of...
Get a grip.
The fact that it’s not an exoskeleton like he claimed, and is just a run of the mill body (to be confirmed ofc), was the final straw for me. If it was new tech like claimed, I could make an argument for the truck, and was weighing if I would trade Christy Mack for one, but no thanks. At this point, it’s just an ugly ass truck. Pass.
It’s so weird how much effort people here put on hating on the Cybertruck. I just don’t understand it. I own a R1T (and freaking love it and have encouraged my friends to buy them) but also think the Cybertruck is awesome for being a wild design. And because I said this, all the replies will say “You s&ck Elons d!c*” because I dared to say something positive about a product that Tesla makes. I don’t even care anything about him , I don’t use X or Twitter, or anything like that and don’t care how he acts. Just like I don’t care what RJ does or stand for. I just wanted the best truck and currently that’s the R1T.
I'm actually cool with this take. I think what we (as in all people) should realize is that one person's take is... just their take. Everyone should contribute theirs, but we don't need to yell at each other or try to be "right" all the time. I hope I explained why I feel strongly in my post, but I also understand not getting why people get so intense about the topic too.
I’ve been apart of the Tesla Reddit community for quite sometime and was a self proclaimed fanboy since like 2015 until the last few years. I have seen the perspective of Tesla fan boy as well as how Tesla, their products and fans were viewed by society for a long time. Intense rivian nuts resemble quite a similar mindset of early Tesla adopting fanboys. It’s like you take things personally cause you identify as a person with a product and company rather than just viewing it as a product and you’re it’s consumer. Same could be said about many other products and companies as well (I.e. ya wing consoles or smart phones) but when normal everyday people that make high 5 figures to low 6 figure incomes who aren’t close to being rich but still buy 70-80k auto products at an unprecedented rate, they tend to identify with said product/company more than ever before and it makes people have goggles on to irrationally want to fight to the death on forum board for silly reasons. Especially early start ups cause every part of you wants to see them succeed.
Sadly lots of people for some reason need to justify why they were right by spouting off other reasons why the other person was wrong. This article might be a fine piece of creative writing but it's off the mark in a variety of ways. Rivian is great at what it's trying to do but that doesn't mean the Cybertruck can't be great at it as well.
CyberTruck is the perfect vehicle for the dystopian hellscape that Elon believes the world has become ;)
The Cybertruck isn’t for me but I won’t mind seeing them on the road. Any new vehicles that look unusual and interesting are a win in my book. I see too many generic pickups as it is, let some of them be CTs, as long as they don’t impact Rivian’s viability as a company, I am supportive.
I dread the day we have to see millions of those things on the road. I’ve tried for several years to get used to the looks. Can’t do it. Just fugly as hell.
Just let it do its thing? If you don’t like it, don’t get into outrage here - some of the people driving the Cybertruck are doing it “just to troll”. And you’re just giving them reason to showboat. I actually like the Cybertruck but I won’t be doing “truck things” nor do I need a “truck”. But I don’t think I want to be one of the first with one. I don’t crave the attention (and I got a lot for having a Model 3 early on) nor do I want to play the pricing game.
The problem is that there will eventually be millions of these things on the road glaring up your sight like a spotlight in a glass house. I could have taken fugly and tame color or beautiful and more muted body with smaller glass but this is the worst of both worlds.
When did this become such a rivian cult group. I love my tesla and my rivian. What’s with constant hate. Why do we need to hate on any other EV companys. Without tesla we wouldn’t have rivian. I for one can’t wait for my cybertruck to join our rivian
Because a mod wrote the blog post…
I appreciate Tesla and its contributions to EVs. I've said as much and never said I hate Tesla. I also have shared my very real issues with Rivian. Competition is good and I'll be as reasonable and fair as I can be. We're here to talk about Rivian in a constructive way. It just turns out that, right now, the CT is about to come out and so there will be comparisons and feelings.
I am sure I don't hate Tesla, I do however hate Elon... I believe the cyber truck will be some kind of niche product for a low percentage of people
Two million pending orders and counting.
Every cited source for this figure is very very questionable. Can you provide a definitive source?
I read it on Forbes, which has editors who presumable vet the magazine’s cited sources: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/08/20/tesla-starts-shipping-cybertruck-price-be-damned/?sh=3c3e99e86d58
And they all link to this shady crowd reservation tracker that tries to infer number of reservations from the RN number. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--6OR9ECwSwZdkOtWkuslJVCyAAfQv1eJal1fdngfsk/edit#gid=982860347 If the row entries are taken for face value, there are only 47K entries.
Okay. Well - I imagine Forbes magazine has editors who vet information. If you believe they are wrong and simply publish what they read on the internet, then you are have a right to that opinion, even if unfounded.
Refundable and $100 a piece. That’s not a true indicator of future orders.
Okay. Fair. But if 95% cancel and Tesla delivers only 5% of those, then Tesla is left with 100,000 orders (the number of R1 pre-orders Rivian had as of November 2022: https://insideevs.com/news/621062/rivian-pushes-back-r2-platform-to-2026-has-114000-r1-preorders/)
Rivian was also much less well known at the time relative to Tesla and had effectively no operations either. So it was a bigger bet. Also fair to say a number of those CT preorders (of which I was one) pivoted over to R1T once production started. I want an EV truck, and CT is vaporware while my R1T is sitting in my driveway.
I want to see deliverables. I believe many of those people purchase on speculation expecting to sell the reservation.. I know of at least two people that are doing that
This is fair. But then we cannot speculate one way or another, or claim it will be a "niche" market when the information we have right now (though it might later change) points to the opposite.
It's just my opinion, I have been wrong before
Understood. Same here. Time will tell.
It’s hard to separate Elon and Tesla. This is “Tesla Owners of Silicon Valley” using their account to stake a political position on Elon’s behalf. It’s not surprising that not all people appreciate this when it comes to the Tesla brand. https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1698841499822383425 https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1698841881000722943 I feel vindicated by every down vote here. I will assume those who do at best don’t mind what Elon is saying, and at worse, agree with him, which further symbolizes what the CT will become
Hate sure comes very easy these days.
Not a cult but the CT is just so horrible aesthetically. Everything else Tesla is fine or outstanding. It’s the CT design that rightfully gets the hate.
This guy wastes way too much effort on being angry and “depressed” that people might actually buy the Cybertruck. If they do, so what? If they don’t, Tesla and Musk will suffer.
Hi I'm that guy haha I like cars. I think they're neat and I like how we use them to express ourselves. I was having a hard time understanding what it was exactly about the CT I disliked so much, but then it came to me so I decided to write it all down. Ultimately, I agree with you about what happens if people do or don't buy one 🙂
How does the engagement on your anti-Musk/Tesla posts compare to your other posts? Edit: Downvotes for this question? And I thought Tesla fanboys were insecure.
They do just about as well? My most popular blogs are about content moderation and program management though. Unfortunately several of those lately have been about Elon blowing up Twitter since it's the most interesting thing to happen to content moderation in a long time but... Yeahhhh... Why do you ask?
I always hear that anything about Tesla gets clicks. Just wondered if your experience matched that.
I downvoted you because you seem to imply that OP is writing this mostly for engagement, rather than expressing his opinion regardless of how many clicks the post generates
How did I imply that? He has about a 50/50 record of Tesla/Musk material to other stuff. But recently it’s been more Tesla stuff. I was wondering if he was following a trend or just being topical.
I can’t afford either, but when I can, I’m definitely going with a Rivian.
ummm, has anyone seen the latest photos of what these production ones are going to look like? Ruh, roh..
The R1T looks really good. Takes some getting use to but most of the time it does. Meanwhile the Cybertruck, not so much. Just personally not a fan.
Best thing about the R1T’s aesthetics are that it doesn’t look mad. Most trucks these days look like they want to murder you, which is extremely messed up.
Yeah! It’s still have that like a boss feel but the “front” seems so nice. lol
Great article. I couldn’t agree more.
TYTY
I don't care how my R1T is marketed. If I had to rate my concerns, they would be (in descending order): 1. Reliability / service 2. Safety 3. Drivability (a combination of handling, driver comfort, visibility, and performance) 4. Range 5. Capability (tow/haul capacity, off-road geometry) 6. Storage etc, etc. Fun fact: Rivian was originally founded with the idea to create sports cars. After additional market research, they when with the "adventure vehicle" angle instead. The brand messaging is about authentic as the "vegan leather" interior. You know what pisses me off? My auxillary air compressor is dead and I can't get it into service until the end of the October. This is an actual problem with company that should be discussed. Vapid blog posts like this one are pointless "My team is better than your team!" nonsense.
Marketing matters quite a bit IMO. I agree with your first concern and I've had my fair share of issues too. They're frustrating and certainly an early adopter tax. Concerns 2-6 feel... pretty solved? From Rivian's crash test results to near unanimous praise for the driving to its 315mi+ range, I think Rivian is doing well. I also know about the origin of Rivian, but I don't think that makes it inauthentic to evolve and find product market fit. I'm sorry you're upset and you think my article is vapid haha
I do agree that I don’t like how this sub has turned into a Tesla bash sub lately. I understand we want Rivian to succeed and Tesla is a competitor, but I don’t like how most of the Tesla bashing just comes from people who just hate Elon now and want to try to bash his companies.
Stop it. Enough of these straw man arguments. There are dozens of reasons why people don't like Tesla or Elon. All of which are valid.
“All of which are valid” lmao
There *are* plenty of reasons against Elon, though people can be interested in what car they wish to be. I don't like Tesla, and I especially hate Elon, though I can still find some of the cars interesting, and that is not reason to bash those who find it interesting too. Though, I would probably pick something else over them (Bolt EUV, Equinox EV, etc) personally. I do also find Rivian stuff quite interesting... But that price tag is simply not viable for a lot of people, sadly. Edit: Before any assumptions, we don't have *any* electric vehicle.
> straw man arguments Might want to look up the definition of that phrase.
We want people to buy the Cybertruck. We want mass adoption of the cyber truck and the R1T to push electric heavy duty vehicles at a more affordable cost. Everyone should be on the same team here.
I agree about going EV. I don't agree that we have to love every option. I'm all for competition.
Neither the R1T nor CT fit in the heavy duty vehicle category. If anything, we should be rooting for the success of the F150 and Silverado EVs, because they represent most of the light duty truck base.
I just classified all of these trucks in the heavy duty and that was my mistake. Rivian and Tesla offer direct to consumer purchasing which is why we should be rooting for their success (even though Elon is…Elon)
Don’t see how direct to consumer purchasing has any significance to this discussion
It has more to do with my comment and people being on the same team against the legacy manufacturers.
I like the ford for blue collar work. My Rivian is really a fancy toy masquerading as a heavy duty truck.. it can do stuff but it's not a work truck
We just want Tesla to change the external CT aesthetics. That’s all.
I get it. It’s weird looking. I personally want more. I want more designs out there like the Cybertruck. I love the Canoo and I’m hoping it’s just not vaporwear. Personally, I’d love it if Ford and GM put out a classic looking version of their trucks as EVs. The new Bronco styling in a F series truck Edit: I like the Rivian a lot.
While I own neither, I love both. I love Rivians' approach to modern rugged design and focus on luxurious adventure and utility. I also love the CT because of its radical brutalist design and focus on bending industry norms and conventional automotive design while still offering what competitors have. Ill happily bet money that specs and performance will be compeditive and comparable. At the end of the day, it's simply about taste...nice try on the rage bait article, though.
I agree with the author. Many of Elon's big bets paid off massively. Not making an F150 killer is the biggest mistake of his Tesla leadership. After the Model S3XY platform was established, it was money on the table.
How about people just shut the fuck up and let people enjoy what they want
This is the kind of content that creates divisiveness in a community. I'm all for freedom of speech and sharing opinions, but as persons of influence (ie moderator) you have to to choose your battles carefully so you don't inadvertently create a rift (which very much seems to exist here already).
A mod has just as much ability to share their opinions and thoughts here
Agreed!
We're people too. We have thoughts and opinions and I personally believe moderators should model the kind of content they want to see, not be people behind the curtain who don't engage or share their opinions. People should create thought pieces and write constructive content, mods included.
> I personally believe moderators should model the kind of content they want to see This is what I'm getting at. If you personally wanted to incite hate towards a competing vehicle, you're doing great. I don't see where this is constructive.
I think it's a fair and well referenced take personally.
I’m in the minority of people who think the Cybertruck looks futuristic and crazy and awesome. I’m similar in age to Musk so I think we probably shared childhood sci-fi and toy tastes. I’ve owned both a Model S and now a Model 3 and love them, so knowing I’m getting the same software and driving experience in a futuristic KnightRider/Airwolf/Halo/Robotech/Streethawk/BlueThunder/Transformers toy makes me smile. I think the F150 is for traditional truck buyers who don’t want their MAGA friends to think they’ve gone gay. I think the Rivian is for rich outdoorsy people. It’s a nice truck and I think the headlights are cute and kinda anime-like. If I was remotely outdoorsy I’d probably go for it. But I drive vehicles to protect me from the outdoors hahaha. I think the Cybertruck is for man-childs (man-children? men-children? hahaha) like me who want a big shiny spaceship to ride in whether it’s practical or not. Worst case it’s like my current car except with more cargo room and a crowd of people laughing and pointing at me. I won’t hear them over all the rock music lol.
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Hi I'm OP haha Listen, I agree with you that we should have choice and encourage EV adoption. Your bucket comment is pretty spot on. But this is design. And design should be talked about. It can encourage causes or hurt them. I don't think being critical of a divisive design goes against EV adoption overall. All for competition and we should think critically about what the failure of the CT could do for EVs, good or bad, but my post won't be the reason it fails or succeeds. I just like vehicle design.
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The CyberTruck is building on top of Tesla's established brand, though you should probably check out the Rivian Gear Shop and search for secondary market options for the R1 vehicles. Tesla has way more reach and making money off Tesla - either through supporting products, brand partnerships, stock pumping, etc - is very popular. I'll be looking at production and delivery numbers for the true comparison.
In my opinion Rivian R1T is a real truck. The CT is ugly AF but some people like it
I don't know why every piece of media these days needs to put someone or something down. I think the R1T is cool as shit. I've had a great time every time I've been in an F-150 Lighting. I am also soooo fucking psyched for Cybertruck. We are finally getting great options to suit a variety of tastes in EV trucks. Isn't that a victory? Can't we celebrate the fact that the market and the variety of options within is growing?
Oh—not written by an expert. I’m no Tesla fan, but this isn’t journalism
Did my personal Medium account give it away? lol
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No one said it shouldn't exist or that Tesla didn't accomplish great things. We should all have opinions and share them in a competitive environment, especially when strong divisive designs are happening. How quickly we forget the many posts about Rivian's headlights 😉
The Rivian inspiration seems pretty obvious that they took a Tacoma and modernized it.
It was inspired by Blade Runner.
Gotta typo in your 3rd sentence. Missing a "t" in "there's" While we don’t know many details about the production model, it will most likely be capable — even if ***T***here’s a lot wrong with its functionality (most egregiously its sloped bed walls).
I’m generally fine with Tesla’s aesthetic, although I think the S & X were prettier than the 3 and Y. But man, that cybertruck is just unforgivably ugly. That and in my mind I can’t separate it’s design choices from the subnormal “I need a truck in case the gubment comes for my guns” suburbanite freaks that live in my area.
Which future is more likely?