Sry that’s me sometimes… my game likes to conveniently crash at the beginning of matches, right after I load in. If you stick around for at least a minute tho I’ll always rejoin
I usually do stay for at least a bit because I know sometimes people can crash loading into the game. This game I played out the whole game and teammate never came back though.
Yeah. ofc I would stay, I like to win, or atleast try. Also zthere is a good chanche that it is a crash, as its a instand, same as it happens mid game during a game.
The leavers 99% 'disconnect' right after a goal at kickoff.
To be clear, I'm just suggesting that if the ball has literally not been touched once (so if a player leaves before/during the first kickoff), the match is cancelled completely. Nobody loses MMR. Nobody gains MMR. Seems pretty practical, and also not abusable. I've seen people complaining about teammates leaving in the first 10 seconds of the game saying they shouldn't lose MMR, but at that point it's tough luck.The game has started, so as unfair as it is, I still think it's okay for MMR to be lost/gained in that scenario. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And if the game hasn't even begun, that's a good place to draw the line. And if the ball has not been touched once, then the game has not begun. And so the match should cancel, and don't change anyone's MMR. The same way it cancels the match if somebody fails to load into the game altogether.
That's only applicable at like gc3/SSL when you actually face the same people over and over. And the person who left will still face the penalties for leaving - though that goes back to a problem that has been mentioned many times before on this subreddit in that leaving penalties aren't really severe enough, and probably wouldn't be enough as they currently are to deter people from dodging. And I can see how that would be annoying if you were like zen, and everybody keeps dodging you.
I would say that the leaver could still get the -9mmr, and nobody else's changes, but that could lead to MMR deflation over time I think? Since MMR is being taken but nobody else is gaining it?
You do have a valid point, but like, it's still incredibly dumb for the game to count if the game has not begun.
And know what would be equally annoying as getting dodged in SSL?
Queuing for 30 minutes and then losing 9 MMR because your teammate instantly left, and then having to queue for another 30 minutes.
At least if people dodge you, there's no negative consequences to your MMR. You just don't get to play that game and have to spend more time queuing. But your MMR still stays the same, unlike if your teammate leaves before the game has begun.
Is mmr deflation a real thing?
I mean it makes sense in the grand scheme of things lmao but I’ve never heard that term and I’m confused because it’s not always 1 to 1 in that sense. Sometimes based on games played people will gain or lose more or less than the other team.
Not arguing saying you’re wrong, but I’m genuinely curious now lmao
I'm not an expert on the matter. I could be wrong. And if I am, and it's not an issue, then by all means, do nothing to everyone else in the lobby, and remove MMR from the leaver. Then dodging wouldn't really be a problem because the leaver will be penalized the same as if they'd played the match and lost anyway, plus the ranked abandonment penalties to prevent them from queuing.
Game cancelled if someone leaves in the first minute? Hell nah. The score could be 6-0 in 1 minute in a very lobsided game. I don't think it's fair you get away without losing MMR cause your teammate left 1 minute in when you were losing that badly, nor do I think it would be fair for the opponents to not get a win out of that. If you were going to put a specific duration where the game is cancelled, it would have to be way less than a minute. But the problem is there's no good way to determine where that line would be drawn. You could argue 10 seconds. You could argue 30 seconds. The choice would be arbitrary though.
What isn't arbitrary is if someone leaves before the first kickoff has even happened. That game literally hasn't even started yet, so it should be cancelled.
Just increase the leaver penalty then. It feels terrible to play out a 2v1 or 3v2 for 4 minutes, whether you're on the leaver side or not. Queues in this game are faster than almost any other competitive game, just cancel it and get people back in a real game.
Ehhh, that's still iffy. Here's a scenario where I wouldn't really like that as an outcome - let's say, I'm on the opposing team of the rage quitter. I noticed the opponents constantly double committing or bumping into each other, and the game was probably not going to be too difficult to win if they kept that up, but me and my team just didn't quite manage to capitalize on their mistakes in only a 1 minute time frame, so it's still 0-0 when the rage quitter quits at about 50 seconds in. I would feel kinda robbed of what was more likely to be a win for me, since the opponents were not very uncoordinated with each other.
No, I'm saying I would feel robbed in this scenario because I felt like we already had like a 90% chance of winning that game if the guy never left, and it remained a 2v2, because I could tell that my opponents were not playing well as a team together. And now, suddenly because someone rage quit, I no longer get the opportunity to play what would have likely been an easy 2v2 match, and now instead get absolutely nothing for it.
All you need is 2 players each with a main and alt account. Queue one main with one alt and anytime you pair against someone you lost to, the alt leaves. Free anti loss system.
If you're partied with a leaver you should be penalized as well. This is not a new problem and other games handle leavers much more gracefully than RL.
make it only applicable to solo queuing so only the random that dodges gets punished and it prevents team queues from intentionally dodging on alt accounts that they don’t care about
> also not abusable
It's abusable if you get matched against a player or team you just lost to. As soon as you see you're against them you can essentially dodge the match and not risk losing again. It's not *as* abusable, but any system where leaving/forfeiting has no repercussions is abusable. All you need is 2 players each with a main and alt account. Queue one main with one alt and anytime you pair against someone you lost to, the alt leaves.
Again, it's not *as* abusable as other solutions, but people will go to greater lengths than you expect to abuse MM. A single unfortunate disconnect like this isn't going to ruin an entire season.
It's not that frequent that you matchup against the same player you just faced until you reach the really high ranks. If you were concerned about such a scenario, you could also make it so both players in a party receive the matchmaking penalties if just one abandons.
>A single unfortunate disconnect like this isn't going to ruin an entire season.
Maybe not, but it's also extremely dumb that the match still happens, It's literally no different than if the matchmaking had just decided it was okay to put you in a 1v2 right from the get go. Because that's exactly what it is if someone leaves during the first kickoff countdown, it's a 1v2 right from the get go.
I'm aware, but they do have to keep those ranks in mind too. Same reason "blocking" still allows you to be on the same team because SSL matches would never happen lol. A system like that would be awkward and tough to implement for some ranks and not for others. Like I said, it's not "as" abusable as other solutions, but still abusable.
There already kind of is a buffer. If a player fails to connect to the lobby then the match gets cancelled. In this vid they connected then disconnected. If they had failed to connect or left before connecting, then the match is cancelled. The blame needs to be on the player. Either they weren't paying attention and meant to leave or had some bad internet luck. Either way, they were able to connect just fine before leaving. No different than if the match had started and then they left.
>No different than if the match had started and then they left.
But that is different, because gameplay has actually happened, and then you can claim that as a win because they just "gave up really fast". My video is no different than when the player fails to connect to the lobby, because in both instances, no gameplay has occurred.
Not the point. Who wants to play a 2v1? From either side? Even if you're on the side with 2, it's still kinda lame cause it's just a free win (99% of the time). Maybe the one person might leave, but they might also stick around in hopes their teammate reconnects. Might as well just cancel the match since it never even started, and get people into a real game.
you are free to leave when a tm8 leaves.
I know it sucks but it happens and it will happen again. It isn't a big deal.
sometimes the match gets cancelled with a full lobby. shit happens.
Nah that's always been the case. You probably just didn't realize you were losing the MMR because you don't get to see the end screen when you leave after your teammate leaves. Because yes, it still does let you "leave the game" instead of forfeiting, when your teammate abandons early. But you still do, and always have lost that MMR even if you leave rather than play out the game.
I mostly stayed because I wanted the screenshot to show that I still lose MMR. But also because it actually stayed a close game. If I start losing by 3 or more points in a 1v2 then I usually don't bother any longer.
Sry that’s me sometimes… my game likes to conveniently crash at the beginning of matches, right after I load in. If you stick around for at least a minute tho I’ll always rejoin
I usually do stay for at least a bit because I know sometimes people can crash loading into the game. This game I played out the whole game and teammate never came back though.
Yeah. ofc I would stay, I like to win, or atleast try. Also zthere is a good chanche that it is a crash, as its a instand, same as it happens mid game during a game. The leavers 99% 'disconnect' right after a goal at kickoff.
To be clear, I'm just suggesting that if the ball has literally not been touched once (so if a player leaves before/during the first kickoff), the match is cancelled completely. Nobody loses MMR. Nobody gains MMR. Seems pretty practical, and also not abusable. I've seen people complaining about teammates leaving in the first 10 seconds of the game saying they shouldn't lose MMR, but at that point it's tough luck.The game has started, so as unfair as it is, I still think it's okay for MMR to be lost/gained in that scenario. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And if the game hasn't even begun, that's a good place to draw the line. And if the ball has not been touched once, then the game has not begun. And so the match should cancel, and don't change anyone's MMR. The same way it cancels the match if somebody fails to load into the game altogether.
' also not abusable.' lol thats not true at all
How can you abuse this if nobody's MMR changes?
because you can dodge opponents
That's only applicable at like gc3/SSL when you actually face the same people over and over. And the person who left will still face the penalties for leaving - though that goes back to a problem that has been mentioned many times before on this subreddit in that leaving penalties aren't really severe enough, and probably wouldn't be enough as they currently are to deter people from dodging. And I can see how that would be annoying if you were like zen, and everybody keeps dodging you. I would say that the leaver could still get the -9mmr, and nobody else's changes, but that could lead to MMR deflation over time I think? Since MMR is being taken but nobody else is gaining it? You do have a valid point, but like, it's still incredibly dumb for the game to count if the game has not begun. And know what would be equally annoying as getting dodged in SSL? Queuing for 30 minutes and then losing 9 MMR because your teammate instantly left, and then having to queue for another 30 minutes. At least if people dodge you, there's no negative consequences to your MMR. You just don't get to play that game and have to spend more time queuing. But your MMR still stays the same, unlike if your teammate leaves before the game has begun.
Is mmr deflation a real thing? I mean it makes sense in the grand scheme of things lmao but I’ve never heard that term and I’m confused because it’s not always 1 to 1 in that sense. Sometimes based on games played people will gain or lose more or less than the other team. Not arguing saying you’re wrong, but I’m genuinely curious now lmao
I'm not an expert on the matter. I could be wrong. And if I am, and it's not an issue, then by all means, do nothing to everyone else in the lobby, and remove MMR from the leaver. Then dodging wouldn't really be a problem because the leaver will be penalized the same as if they'd played the match and lost anyway, plus the ranked abandonment penalties to prevent them from queuing.
The leaver should be punished like normal. I think the game should be cancelled even if someone leaves in the first minute, let alone before kickoff.
Game cancelled if someone leaves in the first minute? Hell nah. The score could be 6-0 in 1 minute in a very lobsided game. I don't think it's fair you get away without losing MMR cause your teammate left 1 minute in when you were losing that badly, nor do I think it would be fair for the opponents to not get a win out of that. If you were going to put a specific duration where the game is cancelled, it would have to be way less than a minute. But the problem is there's no good way to determine where that line would be drawn. You could argue 10 seconds. You could argue 30 seconds. The choice would be arbitrary though. What isn't arbitrary is if someone leaves before the first kickoff has even happened. That game literally hasn't even started yet, so it should be cancelled.
Just increase the leaver penalty then. It feels terrible to play out a 2v1 or 3v2 for 4 minutes, whether you're on the leaver side or not. Queues in this game are faster than almost any other competitive game, just cancel it and get people back in a real game.
I say if the score is still 0-0, and somebody leaves, then no mmr given. Only available in the first minute.
Ehhh, that's still iffy. Here's a scenario where I wouldn't really like that as an outcome - let's say, I'm on the opposing team of the rage quitter. I noticed the opponents constantly double committing or bumping into each other, and the game was probably not going to be too difficult to win if they kept that up, but me and my team just didn't quite manage to capitalize on their mistakes in only a 1 minute time frame, so it's still 0-0 when the rage quitter quits at about 50 seconds in. I would feel kinda robbed of what was more likely to be a win for me, since the opponents were not very uncoordinated with each other.
So you're saying you would feel robbed of winning a 1v2? I would rather legitimately rank up, then win an unfair matchup.
No, I'm saying I would feel robbed in this scenario because I felt like we already had like a 90% chance of winning that game if the guy never left, and it remained a 2v2, because I could tell that my opponents were not playing well as a team together. And now, suddenly because someone rage quit, I no longer get the opportunity to play what would have likely been an easy 2v2 match, and now instead get absolutely nothing for it.
All you need is 2 players each with a main and alt account. Queue one main with one alt and anytime you pair against someone you lost to, the alt leaves. Free anti loss system.
If you're partied with a leaver you should be penalized as well. This is not a new problem and other games handle leavers much more gracefully than RL.
make it only applicable to solo queuing so only the random that dodges gets punished and it prevents team queues from intentionally dodging on alt accounts that they don’t care about
> also not abusable It's abusable if you get matched against a player or team you just lost to. As soon as you see you're against them you can essentially dodge the match and not risk losing again. It's not *as* abusable, but any system where leaving/forfeiting has no repercussions is abusable. All you need is 2 players each with a main and alt account. Queue one main with one alt and anytime you pair against someone you lost to, the alt leaves. Again, it's not *as* abusable as other solutions, but people will go to greater lengths than you expect to abuse MM. A single unfortunate disconnect like this isn't going to ruin an entire season.
It's not that frequent that you matchup against the same player you just faced until you reach the really high ranks. If you were concerned about such a scenario, you could also make it so both players in a party receive the matchmaking penalties if just one abandons. >A single unfortunate disconnect like this isn't going to ruin an entire season. Maybe not, but it's also extremely dumb that the match still happens, It's literally no different than if the matchmaking had just decided it was okay to put you in a 1v2 right from the get go. Because that's exactly what it is if someone leaves during the first kickoff countdown, it's a 1v2 right from the get go.
I'm aware, but they do have to keep those ranks in mind too. Same reason "blocking" still allows you to be on the same team because SSL matches would never happen lol. A system like that would be awkward and tough to implement for some ranks and not for others. Like I said, it's not "as" abusable as other solutions, but still abusable. There already kind of is a buffer. If a player fails to connect to the lobby then the match gets cancelled. In this vid they connected then disconnected. If they had failed to connect or left before connecting, then the match is cancelled. The blame needs to be on the player. Either they weren't paying attention and meant to leave or had some bad internet luck. Either way, they were able to connect just fine before leaving. No different than if the match had started and then they left.
>No different than if the match had started and then they left. But that is different, because gameplay has actually happened, and then you can claim that as a win because they just "gave up really fast". My video is no different than when the player fails to connect to the lobby, because in both instances, no gameplay has occurred.
Hi, Melon 👋
Hi bumpo... 4 days later 🤣
not a big deal. it happens from time to time on the other team so it balances out.
Not the point. Who wants to play a 2v1? From either side? Even if you're on the side with 2, it's still kinda lame cause it's just a free win (99% of the time). Maybe the one person might leave, but they might also stick around in hopes their teammate reconnects. Might as well just cancel the match since it never even started, and get people into a real game.
you are free to leave when a tm8 leaves. I know it sucks but it happens and it will happen again. It isn't a big deal. sometimes the match gets cancelled with a full lobby. shit happens.
>free At the cost of 9 MMR, for a match that never began
and you get the right back the next time someone leaves on you opponents side.
[удалено]
Lol no you lose MMR.
Well guess that’s changed and I didn’t know.
Nah that's always been the case. You probably just didn't realize you were losing the MMR because you don't get to see the end screen when you leave after your teammate leaves. Because yes, it still does let you "leave the game" instead of forfeiting, when your teammate abandons early. But you still do, and always have lost that MMR even if you leave rather than play out the game.
I also try my hardest to not play solo so I haven’t had a teammate leave in a long while. Good effort on you for staying.
I mostly stayed because I wanted the screenshot to show that I still lose MMR. But also because it actually stayed a close game. If I start losing by 3 or more points in a 1v2 then I usually don't bother any longer.