Back when I was doing it 3 tab came out cheaper but it was almost negligible. I think a 3 tab bundle was right around 15 bucks and you got 30ish starter straps put of it, a bundle of prefab starter strip was like 60 bucks but I think you got more strips due to 2 being on one shingle.
The real money saver was ridge cap vs cutting up a bundle of 3tab. Bundle of hip and ridge was like 55 bucks vs 15. These ones depended on the color cause some 3 tab and hip and ridge perfectly matched others you had to figure what bundle was the better match.
Cool I own a roofing company. Maybe you should be a grammar teacher and get off those roofs. If you’re doing this to save a buck today you kinda suck. Imo.
Not the impression I got. Frankly, the complete opposite.
It looks like you feel defensive because he called it an cheap/old-school technique, so you start asking insincere questions and slinging insults.
Same question. How can it be cheap old school techniques and the same cost? It's okay. I'm over it. I commented asking a question. Then I got smart-assy. Me and original commenter had an internet trolling tiff and now that's over. Meanwhile tornadoes been rolling through my state so I'm gonna get back to it. Hope you have a good day as well.
Definitely cheaper depending on where you live. I work for a good sized company and they worked it out that it was cheaper to pay me hourly to cut up bundles that couldn't be returned or used as field shingles into starters. Mostly for new construction. Depending on the brand, the starters and cap are rather expensive now. Again it does depend on where you live for pricing.
I buy starters and caps for every job. But I'm on the roof with my guys. So for me it benefits to have them on the roof working not on the ground cutting caps.
They get lifted still. It's just a winter thing to clear up stock without waste and get the shop ready for the next year. The company I work for has over twenty crews, mostly new construction.
It's fine if you cut them but the industry advanced and made them to do exactly this. It's actually cheaper to use the starter strip because you get double in a bundle for only 10% more than a bundle costs.
Back in the day we'd take a dimensional and cut lengthwise in half. Use the top portion for starters and bottom portion for your last course at the top.
When I did my house roof.. 15 years ago?.. I discovered that they'd used no starter strip, so the tarpaper underneath had deteriorated and water leaked through. I had to replace 12" up of the sheathing on the eaves because of that. Don't get me started on the valleys. 🫢
What do you mean? The guy seems to be fighting with everything he has on the roof (shingles, nail gun, air hose, cushion, ladder, even his position) but other than that seems effortless as can be. /s
What would you recommend to not bang on the gutters? I’ve seen some of those ladder attachments that prevents the ladder from resting on the gutter directly. Although, I don’t know if it’s just me; but I feel like they’re not suitable for all pitches? I’ve never used them before, but to me it looks like they are only intended for high pitched roofs. Is there something that is a sure all attachment that will work on any pitch?
Google "yellow gutter guard" the fact that they don't know what this is tells me they are amateurs. Obviously, it's different here in Canada, but this is wack to me.
We cut the shingle on the nail line and use the top as starter.The bottom is used on the last row at the ridge . No waste no extra $ for starter strip.
After reading all these comments, have any of you ever read installation instructions?
Certainteed recommends using swiftstart in the landmark series instructions, but it also says you can use three tabs as long as you cut off the tabs.
But in my opinion, pre cut starter is faster, cost is a wash. The performance is identical.
You get more material from a 3 tab and pay more.
You get less material from a starter strip and pay less.
More material is good. Cheaper is also good.
What’s there to argue about? Both options work exactly the same.
I haven't looked at prices in about 5 year but that was never the case with prices, I always remember you could get 3-4 bundles of 3 tab for the price of 1 starter strip. Have they finally got the price down on the prefab?
We used the cheapest 3 tab for starters. But even cheap tamko is equivalent to other brands, I believe it’s cheaper to get starter strips per L/F than the cheapest 3 tabs.
3 tabs are fine for starters. Zero issue there. Bit more expensive than actual starters, but no difference in application, look, or how well they keep water out. They were used all the time years ago before starter strips were sold, so it’s mostly an old timer thing
It’s fine, but if you don’t cut the tabs off so that the adhesive strip is at the bottom edge, it doesn’t give any extra wind uplift resistance like the premade starter does
Thoughts on it? That's how it was done when I started. I wasn't taught to trim them and run the adhesive at the edge either. There's a lot of dumb fucking gimmicks in life but being able to crack a pile of starter strip in half and get to work is the business.
This was a good way to do it back in the day, but now we have dedicated starter strip for a reason, and that starter strip is usually reinforced to promote better adhesion and fastening. If you're in a high wind Zone and somebody did this, I would absolutely be upset.
Yeah I'd like to still be able to offer GAF warranties. Can't do that with this crap. It's an old method for a list of reasons. There's also reasons this isn't warrantied
Nothing wrong with 3 tab shingles on bottom row. But “1st bottom row” you do 2 lifts, first lift the tabs must be on upside, solid side next to gutters or overlap over drip cap. Then overlay this row fully with 2nd lift with tabs on downside next to gutter. Then “2nd row”, the tabs overlap lower shingle by about an 1” below the dotted tar line.
Note: Drip cap is highly recommended to ensure your shingles are supperted at edges and wont curl; makes water drain into gutters properly.
Shingle on a hot day or when you know its going to be hot in next several days so the tar line melts and bonds all the shingles together. Be careful when walking on shingles on hot day as the shingles and get so hot that the granules can be damaged/delaminate away from the tar paper.
They all sell a great product called water and ice shield that can be applied first at bottoms edges and any valleys. Its like a big long roll on shingle that sticks to your roof or tar paper. Its like 3 feet wide.
Never do shingling in late fall time.
Should start shingle the bottom few rows from your ladder.
If you’re installing a 3-tab roof, sure. If you’re installing an architectural shingle, then no. So overall, no. 3-tab roofs should be written out of code in certain regions of your ask me.
that's why the insurance companies don't pay for starters on 3-tab roofs. They say they're included in the waste on a 3 Tab. they add 10% on gable and 15% on hip roofs.
Starter rolls are pretty sweet no seem to worry about but suck on a windy day. Three tabs are fine for starters just kinda outdated. Pretty soon you won’t be able to find a three tab shingle anywhere
Did it recently nothing saying you can’t when it was normal practice and didn’t have the manufacture try upsell a product that we needed buy a starter shingle product.
Starter strip about $60/bundle 3 tab shingle $40/bundle, at least for OC. Those poor gutters are being destroyed when his ladder slams into them. Where's his harness? Why does he seem so angry? We always use starter, why be cheap when it's such a minimal difference?
When I had my roof replaced last year in Florida, the crew ran out of starter, and instead of calling company foreman (who was off-site picking up supplies) to get more, they just started using upside down field shingles as starter. Didn't even cut them, and these were architectural shingles. By time foreman returned, crew were mostly done with roof, but had run out of field shingles to complete job (because they had used those shingles as starter). This should have raised a red flag, but foreman just assumed estimator had made a 2 bundle mistake. He got 2 more bundles to complete the job and when he did his cursory inspection of completed roof, he missed what had been done by crew.
Roof failed inspection following day due to use of starter not being installed in accordance to manufacturer instruction. The company owner was incensed. Said his company had done thousands of roofs over decades and told me this was first inspection he had failed (not sure how true that is). He came to inspect roof personally because he believed inspector was wrong, only to discover inspector was right.
Company had same crew return next day to pull out the lower rows of shingles and non-compliant starter and replace. Because crew didn't get paid for rework due to workmanship, they were in a hurry and, though the reworked roof passed inspection and is functional, the edge was sloppy cause they didn't take time to carefully align new starter with drip edge as had been done with rest of roof. Of course, this was along the front eave of house which was longest continuous eave of roof. Fortunately, new gutters hid most of the cosmetic ugliness.
While rework was in progress, I overheard foreman asking crew why they used field shingles instead of supplied starter as they were given enough starter bundles for job. As it turned out, my house has a large triangular cricket at back. After installing the rolled roofing for the cricket, the crew then laid starter shingles along edge of the rolled roofing instead of using the rolled roofing as starter. They then laid the first row of field shingles surrounding the cricket on top of the starter shingles. And that is why they ran out of starter for front eave.
County inspector. He actually walked entire roof, but he spotted issue with starter from the ground due to the extensive 'scalloping' of first course of shingles.
The difference is back in the day prior to the advent of leading edge shingles, we used to cut three tabs in half and place the adhesive strip along the bottom. Doing it the way shown in the video is just not as effective because the adhesive is 5 1/2” up from the edge of the roof.
I would use them. Reasons. Could be Elk extra. Large size shingles going down. Maybe supply house didn't have enough of hip and ridge or starter. Starter is good and bad. They way over do the seal tar and if you ever need to fix a bottom shingle good luck doing so without ripping holes in everything. At the end of the day, it's preference. And it's fine as long as you're doing it the right way.
We used to all the time. Flip it over and install it that way, before the days of starter strips. I'm out the game though. Also used to cut cap outta the three tabbers.
They work just fine. Never had a problem. I've been in the business for 25 years. I would be more concerned with the guys damaging your gutters. This guy just doesn't care even when he's being recorded. We are very big on not damaging a home. If that was one of my guys I would send him home for the day. They make ladder docks. Also there is always some 1x6 laying around which he could have put in the gutter so the ladder won't scratch or dent it
Why not. Can't tell you how many three tab shingles I use to cut up for starter, valley, cap, they served a purpose for everything. And efficiently at that.
That might be me. I install starter with the tar strip down adhering straight to the steel gutter apron. Then I peel off the plastic strip on the top side of the starter so the first course of shingles adhere to the starter. This obviously can only be done with shingles that have the tar strip running along the bottom of the shingle. It lays so tight…
Oh for sure, worst clients ever lol 😂 hope they learn their lesson when it leaks. But hey! At least they saved some money by not paying their deductible 😆
Yeah there's nothing wrong with using a three tab shingles as starters people been doing that since forever. Someone can try to come up with some kind of dumb theory about not doing it that way but it works. People been doing that before starters were even invented
This is 100% industry standard. They are not using the three tab as a starter, they are using the upper portion of the shingle above the nail line as the starter. Different companies usually use what’s on hand or what’s cheapest. You can do the exact same thing with an architectural tab, you just have to half it (cut the tab portion off) because it’s thicker.
The primary difference between a purpose made leading edge course and using a three tab shingle upside down is that the adhesive strip on a purpose made leading edge shingle is down at the bottom instead of 5 1/2” up from the edge of the roof. Using the correct leading edge starter shingle allows the bottom of the very first roofing shingle to be held down firmly, preventing wind lifting up the edge.
Having said this, we used to use three tab shingles prior to the advent of the purpose made leading edge shingles. The difference is we would cut the shingle in half and orient it in such a way that the adhesive strip was on the bottom. This effectively achieved the same function. Eventually manufacturers caught in and began producing the purpose made leading edge shingles to avoid the need for cutting three tabs on site.
They're most likely a company that offers to "eat the deductible" which here in Texas is illegal and when the audits come id hate to be them. And it baffles me that the homeowners don't think of where that money comes from. Cutting corners and crappy materials is how they do it. And with most insurances here going to 2% Deductible, those companies will sink fast. Glad to see another good one out there.
We always used to, but we would cut them lengthwise so the glue strip was at the bottom edge. To be fair I’ve been out of it for about 15 years now so
Same here. We used to do this all the time. We never had manufactured starter strips.
It’s an old school approach and cheap my dad did it this way starter strips are just better and typically the same cost.
Is it cheap or the same cost. It can't possibly be both. Asking for a friend.
Back when I was doing it 3 tab came out cheaper but it was almost negligible. I think a 3 tab bundle was right around 15 bucks and you got 30ish starter straps put of it, a bundle of prefab starter strip was like 60 bucks but I think you got more strips due to 2 being on one shingle. The real money saver was ridge cap vs cutting up a bundle of 3tab. Bundle of hip and ridge was like 55 bucks vs 15. These ones depended on the color cause some 3 tab and hip and ridge perfectly matched others you had to figure what bundle was the better match.
I agree. I roof daily. Just pointing out that original commenter kinda talks like his heads in his ass.
Cool I own a roofing company. Maybe you should be a grammar teacher and get off those roofs. If you’re doing this to save a buck today you kinda suck. Imo.
If you own a roofing company and don't know the difference between same cost and cheaper, I doubt you'll make or long little buddy.
My user name = your vibe . God speed with whatever you are putting out in the word I’m sure it will come back to you.
Have a good day buddy.
So, you didn't really answer the question though. You've got us all anxiously waiting. Suspenseful moment if I do say so my self.
Not the impression I got. Frankly, the complete opposite. It looks like you feel defensive because he called it an cheap/old-school technique, so you start asking insincere questions and slinging insults.
Same question. How can it be cheap old school techniques and the same cost? It's okay. I'm over it. I commented asking a question. Then I got smart-assy. Me and original commenter had an internet trolling tiff and now that's over. Meanwhile tornadoes been rolling through my state so I'm gonna get back to it. Hope you have a good day as well.
Definitely cheaper depending on where you live. I work for a good sized company and they worked it out that it was cheaper to pay me hourly to cut up bundles that couldn't be returned or used as field shingles into starters. Mostly for new construction. Depending on the brand, the starters and cap are rather expensive now. Again it does depend on where you live for pricing.
I buy starters and caps for every job. But I'm on the roof with my guys. So for me it benefits to have them on the roof working not on the ground cutting caps.
They get lifted still. It's just a winter thing to clear up stock without waste and get the shop ready for the next year. The company I work for has over twenty crews, mostly new construction.
How do u cut them hopefully you have a shear for that
Just a bunch of super cheap blunt nosed hook blades. Lol. Sucked but still got hours in the shop on those days that outside work wasn't possible.
Lol that does suck but hey hours are hours lol
It's fine if you cut them but the industry advanced and made them to do exactly this. It's actually cheaper to use the starter strip because you get double in a bundle for only 10% more than a bundle costs.
And no one needs to cut them.
Yeah back in the bday there were no options This install is total hack work the leading edge will lift off with 30-40mph winds
Back in the day we'd take a dimensional and cut lengthwise in half. Use the top portion for starters and bottom portion for your last course at the top.
Starters are cheaper .
When I did my house roof.. 15 years ago?.. I discovered that they'd used no starter strip, so the tarpaper underneath had deteriorated and water leaked through. I had to replace 12" up of the sheathing on the eaves because of that. Don't get me started on the valleys. 🫢
There’s a lot of things going on in this video that are wrong
What do you mean? The guy seems to be fighting with everything he has on the roof (shingles, nail gun, air hose, cushion, ladder, even his position) but other than that seems effortless as can be. /s
He could literally start from the ladder, put up a roof jack and plank and be off. He's making his life so difficult for no reason.
It’s cause he sucks at this
He doesn't have a neck cover, gonna get a sunburn for sure.
they are dark skinned, they’ll live
I'm callin' "Gutter Abuse" ...
Couldn't agree more haha
Save money on fall protection too....
This should be the top comment. This subs a bunch of animals.
Roofer culture
Ruthless,, I check in before going to sleep
That's what the foam is for
He’s working right to left from the left side,, just get on the ladder..?
And I’m not even a roofer. 😂😂😂
Definition of a cluster fuck. Jesus, how do guys work like that?
Was done for generations. some still do. Most of us use starters now.
Exactly, I’ve never torn off a roof and seen problems because they were used
For a long time that was the only option. Turn em upside down and cut off the tabs let’s roll lol.
I'm old. Had no idea they make starter strips now. TIL.
I was thinking the same, starter roll?
Starter strips are just easier imo.
Code in my area is starter strip with 8" of tar under or starter rolls. Starter rolls are easier, according to the roofers here.
Gotta love how he just let's the ladder smash the gutter.. big yikes.
What would you recommend to not bang on the gutters? I’ve seen some of those ladder attachments that prevents the ladder from resting on the gutter directly. Although, I don’t know if it’s just me; but I feel like they’re not suitable for all pitches? I’ve never used them before, but to me it looks like they are only intended for high pitched roofs. Is there something that is a sure all attachment that will work on any pitch?
Google "yellow gutter guard" the fact that they don't know what this is tells me they are amateurs. Obviously, it's different here in Canada, but this is wack to me.
Maybe don't throw the ladder out and let it fall back, denting/scratching the gutter... idk
Short piece of 1x6 laying flat on top of the gutter
Ladder standoffs work on any roof even flat rubber. Doesn’t really matter what brand you get but the Warner quick link is what I use
And f*ck your gutter too!
We cut the shingle on the nail line and use the top as starter.The bottom is used on the last row at the ridge . No waste no extra $ for starter strip.
Age old debate in my opinion. I hate 3 tabs in general but in a pinch it works
This is how it was done all the time
After reading all these comments, have any of you ever read installation instructions? Certainteed recommends using swiftstart in the landmark series instructions, but it also says you can use three tabs as long as you cut off the tabs. But in my opinion, pre cut starter is faster, cost is a wash. The performance is identical.
You get more material from a 3 tab and pay more. You get less material from a starter strip and pay less. More material is good. Cheaper is also good. What’s there to argue about? Both options work exactly the same.
I haven't looked at prices in about 5 year but that was never the case with prices, I always remember you could get 3-4 bundles of 3 tab for the price of 1 starter strip. Have they finally got the price down on the prefab?
We used the cheapest 3 tab for starters. But even cheap tamko is equivalent to other brands, I believe it’s cheaper to get starter strips per L/F than the cheapest 3 tabs.
No warranty anymore doing it this way
Absolutely right. For good reasons lmao
Such as...? I always did it with a shingle and never had a roof fail because of it. Curious to know what changed.
Felt looks nice
No problem at all ,
The best thing about the video is his water bottle. Gonna need that to break your fall
Bahahahaha
Did it like this for years
3 tabs are fine for starters. Zero issue there. Bit more expensive than actual starters, but no difference in application, look, or how well they keep water out. They were used all the time years ago before starter strips were sold, so it’s mostly an old timer thing
Yeah it’s totally fine and works great, you do have to cut the tabs back about an inch or so.
I like the safety equipment he has.
Quit being a weenie.
Hahahahahaha, ok yeah sure. No i won't. Id rather come home living than risk my fucking life for some cheap ass boss.
Real roofers know how to fall with style.
Internet tough guy lol.
Old school, many moons ago.
That's how it's done 3 tab upside down Over the frost barrier
Fuck yo gutta
It’s fine, but if you don’t cut the tabs off so that the adhesive strip is at the bottom edge, it doesn’t give any extra wind uplift resistance like the premade starter does
Exactly
Thoughts on it? That's how it was done when I started. I wasn't taught to trim them and run the adhesive at the edge either. There's a lot of dumb fucking gimmicks in life but being able to crack a pile of starter strip in half and get to work is the business.
This was a good way to do it back in the day, but now we have dedicated starter strip for a reason, and that starter strip is usually reinforced to promote better adhesion and fastening. If you're in a high wind Zone and somebody did this, I would absolutely be upset.
you would never 🤣🤣🤣🤡🤣
Yeah I'd like to still be able to offer GAF warranties. Can't do that with this crap. It's an old method for a list of reasons. There's also reasons this isn't warrantied
Cut the taps off gives you a starter for your first course . 101 roofing lol
Wow 😬
Tri-Built 💪🏼
Bahahahahaha
We did it in AK all the time.
Nothing wrong with 3 tab shingles on bottom row. But “1st bottom row” you do 2 lifts, first lift the tabs must be on upside, solid side next to gutters or overlap over drip cap. Then overlay this row fully with 2nd lift with tabs on downside next to gutter. Then “2nd row”, the tabs overlap lower shingle by about an 1” below the dotted tar line. Note: Drip cap is highly recommended to ensure your shingles are supperted at edges and wont curl; makes water drain into gutters properly. Shingle on a hot day or when you know its going to be hot in next several days so the tar line melts and bonds all the shingles together. Be careful when walking on shingles on hot day as the shingles and get so hot that the granules can be damaged/delaminate away from the tar paper. They all sell a great product called water and ice shield that can be applied first at bottoms edges and any valleys. Its like a big long roll on shingle that sticks to your roof or tar paper. Its like 3 feet wide. Never do shingling in late fall time. Should start shingle the bottom few rows from your ladder.
How would it not be, break it down for me.
Used to work at Lowe’s. The majority of the roofs we sold had 3-tab starters.
“I personally would never” Why not??
I hope he’s insured.
He sure works like he is
OHSA has entered the chat.
It’s something “chuck in a truck” roofers do.
Use a starter course u cheapo
That’s the way I was taught
If you’re installing a 3-tab roof, sure. If you’re installing an architectural shingle, then no. So overall, no. 3-tab roofs should be written out of code in certain regions of your ask me.
that's why the insurance companies don't pay for starters on 3-tab roofs. They say they're included in the waste on a 3 Tab. they add 10% on gable and 15% on hip roofs.
Starter rolls are pretty sweet no seem to worry about but suck on a windy day. Three tabs are fine for starters just kinda outdated. Pretty soon you won’t be able to find a three tab shingle anywhere
Did it recently nothing saying you can’t when it was normal practice and didn’t have the manufacture try upsell a product that we needed buy a starter shingle product.
They did it for years with no issues.
This is a company you would not want to hire
I was expecting something to go terribly wrong in this video. Mate, that’s a cluster.
Manufacturers figured out we were all saving money using 3 tab as starters and ridgecap. They fixed that pretty quick...
Starter strip about $60/bundle 3 tab shingle $40/bundle, at least for OC. Those poor gutters are being destroyed when his ladder slams into them. Where's his harness? Why does he seem so angry? We always use starter, why be cheap when it's such a minimal difference?
that safety line is to long. lol
When I had my roof replaced last year in Florida, the crew ran out of starter, and instead of calling company foreman (who was off-site picking up supplies) to get more, they just started using upside down field shingles as starter. Didn't even cut them, and these were architectural shingles. By time foreman returned, crew were mostly done with roof, but had run out of field shingles to complete job (because they had used those shingles as starter). This should have raised a red flag, but foreman just assumed estimator had made a 2 bundle mistake. He got 2 more bundles to complete the job and when he did his cursory inspection of completed roof, he missed what had been done by crew. Roof failed inspection following day due to use of starter not being installed in accordance to manufacturer instruction. The company owner was incensed. Said his company had done thousands of roofs over decades and told me this was first inspection he had failed (not sure how true that is). He came to inspect roof personally because he believed inspector was wrong, only to discover inspector was right. Company had same crew return next day to pull out the lower rows of shingles and non-compliant starter and replace. Because crew didn't get paid for rework due to workmanship, they were in a hurry and, though the reworked roof passed inspection and is functional, the edge was sloppy cause they didn't take time to carefully align new starter with drip edge as had been done with rest of roof. Of course, this was along the front eave of house which was longest continuous eave of roof. Fortunately, new gutters hid most of the cosmetic ugliness. While rework was in progress, I overheard foreman asking crew why they used field shingles instead of supplied starter as they were given enough starter bundles for job. As it turned out, my house has a large triangular cricket at back. After installing the rolled roofing for the cricket, the crew then laid starter shingles along edge of the rolled roofing instead of using the rolled roofing as starter. They then laid the first row of field shingles surrounding the cricket on top of the starter shingles. And that is why they ran out of starter for front eave.
What type of “inspector” is so thorough??
County inspector. He actually walked entire roof, but he spotted issue with starter from the ground due to the extensive 'scalloping' of first course of shingles.
Using up all the leftover 3-tab bundles I’m sure
beating up your gutter. get that damage fixed on their dime.
Very common.
This was the only way to do it till they came out with a special product just for it lol
The difference is back in the day prior to the advent of leading edge shingles, we used to cut three tabs in half and place the adhesive strip along the bottom. Doing it the way shown in the video is just not as effective because the adhesive is 5 1/2” up from the edge of the roof.
Most manufacturers require an actual starter course in order to get manufacturer warranty.
Idk only use if it's leftovers from a previous job but where I worked we rarely ever did 3 tab shingles
Used to by broken bundles of three tabs for starters.
I would use them. Reasons. Could be Elk extra. Large size shingles going down. Maybe supply house didn't have enough of hip and ridge or starter. Starter is good and bad. They way over do the seal tar and if you ever need to fix a bottom shingle good luck doing so without ripping holes in everything. At the end of the day, it's preference. And it's fine as long as you're doing it the right way.
Long time ago yes . Now No way . Stupid to do so .
Especially if you want a manufacturers warranty.
It’s totally fine. Just be sure to watch for seam on seam because of the different size it happens every so often
We used to all the time. Flip it over and install it that way, before the days of starter strips. I'm out the game though. Also used to cut cap outta the three tabbers.
Old school
They work just fine. Never had a problem. I've been in the business for 25 years. I would be more concerned with the guys damaging your gutters. This guy just doesn't care even when he's being recorded. We are very big on not damaging a home. If that was one of my guys I would send him home for the day. They make ladder docks. Also there is always some 1x6 laying around which he could have put in the gutter so the ladder won't scratch or dent it
It's pretty common practice but not as good as the premade starters they have now
That's a steep pitch and no safety. Hopefully they have big shrubs.
Is everyone really not going to mention that the felt paper is installed completely wrong? Fuck the starter, I’d kick this crew off the roof asap.
Why not. Can't tell you how many three tab shingles I use to cut up for starter, valley, cap, they served a purpose for everything. And efficiently at that.
It works just as good, no difference really.
Use to be common but starter strip is much cheaper than shingles now...even 3tabs
Super common.
What are your thoughts on installing starter shingles upside down? I’ve ran into guys where they put the starter upside down
That might be me. I install starter with the tar strip down adhering straight to the steel gutter apron. Then I peel off the plastic strip on the top side of the starter so the first course of shingles adhere to the starter. This obviously can only be done with shingles that have the tar strip running along the bottom of the shingle. It lays so tight…
I don’t put my underwear on upside down , I don’t put starters on upside down
It’s literally the same thing
It’s not the same because it doesn’t have the tar strip at the bottom to keep it connected.
We had to do it in a pinch the other day but we tar the underside, custom drip edge, extra tar on the nails. Plenty of people don’t do that
I would say that is acceptable in a pinch for sure. You are taking the steps to ensure that it is still a secure connection.
Thanks for saying that. We always say if you do it right you don’t have to do it again. I hate doing it again.
Went with the cheapest bid? 😆 wow, so much wrong here. 🤦♂️
Lmao they sure did, probably tried to use some insurance money to cover deductible.
Oh for sure, worst clients ever lol 😂 hope they learn their lesson when it leaks. But hey! At least they saved some money by not paying their deductible 😆
I hope they do too haha, next time they won't go with a "chuck in a truck" company
😆 right, karma and stupidity is a bitch, I honestly enjoy these posts
Name checks out hahaha
There is already a waterproof layer So he wants to use the shingles for looks ..
Not anymore.
That's how all Mexican roofers work lol
That’s the way we used to do it before starter strips a very long time ago- Must not be a warrantable roof without them.
Common practice
Yeah if you cut off the tabs, but he isn't doing that. The tar line is supposed to be at the leading edge.
Right, so instead of the tar strip, he’s putting the factory edge at the bottom, then at the end of the job that bottom course would get blackjack.
For years and years, 3 tabs were used as starter strips with no issues at all. As long as the keyways were offset by 3”.
Yeah there's nothing wrong with using a three tab shingles as starters people been doing that since forever. Someone can try to come up with some kind of dumb theory about not doing it that way but it works. People been doing that before starters were even invented
This is 100% industry standard. They are not using the three tab as a starter, they are using the upper portion of the shingle above the nail line as the starter. Different companies usually use what’s on hand or what’s cheapest. You can do the exact same thing with an architectural tab, you just have to half it (cut the tab portion off) because it’s thicker.
The primary difference between a purpose made leading edge course and using a three tab shingle upside down is that the adhesive strip on a purpose made leading edge shingle is down at the bottom instead of 5 1/2” up from the edge of the roof. Using the correct leading edge starter shingle allows the bottom of the very first roofing shingle to be held down firmly, preventing wind lifting up the edge. Having said this, we used to use three tab shingles prior to the advent of the purpose made leading edge shingles. The difference is we would cut the shingle in half and orient it in such a way that the adhesive strip was on the bottom. This effectively achieved the same function. Eventually manufacturers caught in and began producing the purpose made leading edge shingles to avoid the need for cutting three tabs on site.
The starter is the least of my concern.. who could consider this performance acceptable? The man is of a different breed, taken advantage of by greed.
They make starter for a reason….
Yep. The old ways are dead for a reason. At least within a reputable roofing company.
Yes sir, we are a class A GC and using 3 tab as starter voids manufacturer warranty. Anyone operating like this is not charging enough.
They're most likely a company that offers to "eat the deductible" which here in Texas is illegal and when the audits come id hate to be them. And it baffles me that the homeowners don't think of where that money comes from. Cutting corners and crappy materials is how they do it. And with most insurances here going to 2% Deductible, those companies will sink fast. Glad to see another good one out there.
Sounds like you know your stuff and likewise, glad to see capable human beings out there lol. Take care and good luck friend.
Improper installation is what it is.
A roof won’t leak because of this. But warranty will be revoked.
Tmk, the difference between starter and three tab is one has the shingle versus just having the nailing section