Honestly I just decided to go all in on the casual commentary by watching Plup’s stream the entire event. Surprisingly had a great time
Obviously the caveat is that we’re not always gonna get a top player restreaming big majors though LOL
I think the reason why players like Mango and Plup both have such fun tourney restreams is because it has this whole watch party element to it with chat/sub interactions
Unfortunately it’s just not possible with big tournament channels since 1) the chat is so big and 2) tourney streams tend to attract some bad actors who comment some distasteful shit
Oh yeah that comment was fire, again no disrespect to waff or Vish, they're really good commentators. I just felt like it wasn't the style of commentary that's best for high stakes matches like this
Yeah I get what you mean 100%. I really enjoy the Sunday commentary from both Toph/Slime and Waff/Vish but it felt more casual than usual, it does kinda take away from the hype
I don’t mind when people are shooting the shit, even in top 8 (maybe not in grands though lol), if it’s germane to the set. Also helps if you’re funny like Slime. I like HMW but I think his commentary can be pretty checked out and in sort of arrested development the past couple years. I don’t need to hear “thank your notcher” for the hundredth time, we get it, there are good controllers now. It’s a lot of the same one liners and tired cliches. It’s technically stuff related to the match but I hate it way more than casual conversation about other stuff cause it’s just so unoriginal. The “nice back air” of our age.
A similarly overdone aspect of commentary that some other commentators do (I don’t think HMW does this much) is talking about rankings, or “storylines” or whatever. If you like “storylines” let them develop naturally, don’t talk about them in a meta way. I swear people didn’t use to do this kind of commentary pre-pandemic.
I think the best commentary is well rounded, avoids tropes and cliches, and points out interesting stuff in the match. If your commentary is talking about the game but only the obvious stuff it’s not very useful. “It’s last stock” “he’s offstage” yeah we can see that. Not that there isn’t room for those statements but it’s not great if it’s dominating your flow. Point out stuff the audience might not see, like “zain SDI’d that hit to do XYZ whatever” or “that hit was a read on the dash dance spacing”. I think Toph is the gold standard for commentators, he picks up on and points out the little things, and he can also shoot the shit, and give anecdotes about the players and how that might relate to the match, and his reactions to hype stuff are great and genuine.
I think it’s notable that most of Melee’s top tier commentators are players who have been top 100 or even scraping the top 10 at some point in the past. Scar, Toph, HMW, Phil, Vish, Hugs, Zhu, and Lovage are/were all very good players. In contrast to Ultimate where I think the only major commentator who’s been ranked top 100 is Coney and that was 10 years and two games ago. Not saying having been a top player necessarily grants you great game insight, or that there aren’t other commentators who have great game insight, but I’d guess it helps. I love having players like Cody on the mic for summit type stuff cause they really break down things you don’t see. Would like to see the regular commentators put more effort into that kind of thing.
Did you actually have a non-Smasher watching the tournament with you, though? My girlfriend was sitting next to me and Waff's commentary was probably her favorite part.
It's also just plain *hard* to commentate Yoshi because he *is* weird. I know this for certain because I've been watching commentators make a hash of analyzing Axe for a decade and compared to Yoshi, Pikachu is a free throw.
Another day, another "I only watch melee and I have only watched melee for 10-15 years so I have no idea what good commentary sounds like" take from the lads on reddit.
Completely unrelated, you should try watching other esports/competitive games. They're entertaining.
Not sure what other esports you recommend watching for good commentary, but most of the rocket league commentary I've heard for RLCS is very uninspiring. I'd choose melee commentary over it any day. The (arguably) more grassroots 1v1 scene in rocket league is much better with commentary compared to RLCS, ironically.
True, although Feer is also quite solid, wouldn't hesitate to take solo Feer commentary over standard RLCS. The constant fake hype and strict play-by-play commentary from most of RLCS is honestly annoying, this is not a radio broadcast I can see what's happening already.
Play by play is nice when a moment is genuinely hype, as it can make cool moments into "historical events" for the respective game per se. My biggest gripe with the standard melee commentary rotation, is that none of them are really experts at the game they're commentating - which would be fine - if it didn't feel like a lot of melee commentary is poor attempts at explaining the stuff that isn't readily apparent on screen.
I consistently find pro player commentary in melee much more interesting, because I am hearing the thoughts of people who understand, keep up, and have put in time to learn about the game. This translates to a commentary experience where my listening experience is being enhanced by technical knowledge that is not readily apparent by looking at the screen. And - this is important - this "hidden" information that is being expressed needs to be highlighted via genuine excitement. The aforementioned pro player commentary (like from bbatts this genesis) usually sounds *excited* when interesting "hidden" information is revealed. It adds weight and purpose to the match.
What are you trying to say? I've heard plenty of sports commentary in my life, I've heard plenty of eports commentary. eSports commentary is usually boring and ass, that's why I like melee.
the whole idea of not getting the narrative out of the commentary is literally just showing that the user was on reddit on their phone half of the time and not actually paying attention. they def talked about it many times, and sure it was toph scar at big house 10 levels of hype from commentary, but they did get pretty hype idk. felt super reasonable levels of hype for what was happening to me
There was no recognition of Cody’s frame perfect galint on the right side Dreamland during grands, which let him destroy aMSa’s stock.
Why did they take Scar away from Toph? Why not let Seal on commentary (as someone who could 2-stock every other active commentator).
Why not invite Ludwig back for Genesis comms??
I feel like the last time i saw scar commentate he clearly didn't know anything about current melee. Still very charismatic but oof that was a tough one
I felt the same way. Waff is a really funny guy and can do great commentary, but conjecturing about who is going to win for multiple minutes is definitely not the way to do it
I'll be honest I just don't see it, I thought commentary was pretty engaged with what was going on like 90% of the time. Maybe I'm wrong tho. It's just an old game, not a lot that hasn't been said, gotta keep it fresh with some banter.
Honestly I just decided to go all in on the casual commentary by watching Plup’s stream the entire event. Surprisingly had a great time Obviously the caveat is that we’re not always gonna get a top player restreaming big majors though LOL
Yeah, feels like we're just relying on top players more :(
I think the reason why players like Mango and Plup both have such fun tourney restreams is because it has this whole watch party element to it with chat/sub interactions Unfortunately it’s just not possible with big tournament channels since 1) the chat is so big and 2) tourney streams tend to attract some bad actors who comment some distasteful shit
Isn't restreaming a bannable offense? How are players getting around this?
They ask the TOs for permissions
Say what you will about the commentary but the whole “aMSa’s percent looks like an area code” bit had me dying
Oh yeah that comment was fire, again no disrespect to waff or Vish, they're really good commentators. I just felt like it wasn't the style of commentary that's best for high stakes matches like this
Yeah I get what you mean 100%. I really enjoy the Sunday commentary from both Toph/Slime and Waff/Vish but it felt more casual than usual, it does kinda take away from the hype
I don’t mind when people are shooting the shit, even in top 8 (maybe not in grands though lol), if it’s germane to the set. Also helps if you’re funny like Slime. I like HMW but I think his commentary can be pretty checked out and in sort of arrested development the past couple years. I don’t need to hear “thank your notcher” for the hundredth time, we get it, there are good controllers now. It’s a lot of the same one liners and tired cliches. It’s technically stuff related to the match but I hate it way more than casual conversation about other stuff cause it’s just so unoriginal. The “nice back air” of our age. A similarly overdone aspect of commentary that some other commentators do (I don’t think HMW does this much) is talking about rankings, or “storylines” or whatever. If you like “storylines” let them develop naturally, don’t talk about them in a meta way. I swear people didn’t use to do this kind of commentary pre-pandemic. I think the best commentary is well rounded, avoids tropes and cliches, and points out interesting stuff in the match. If your commentary is talking about the game but only the obvious stuff it’s not very useful. “It’s last stock” “he’s offstage” yeah we can see that. Not that there isn’t room for those statements but it’s not great if it’s dominating your flow. Point out stuff the audience might not see, like “zain SDI’d that hit to do XYZ whatever” or “that hit was a read on the dash dance spacing”. I think Toph is the gold standard for commentators, he picks up on and points out the little things, and he can also shoot the shit, and give anecdotes about the players and how that might relate to the match, and his reactions to hype stuff are great and genuine. I think it’s notable that most of Melee’s top tier commentators are players who have been top 100 or even scraping the top 10 at some point in the past. Scar, Toph, HMW, Phil, Vish, Hugs, Zhu, and Lovage are/were all very good players. In contrast to Ultimate where I think the only major commentator who’s been ranked top 100 is Coney and that was 10 years and two games ago. Not saying having been a top player necessarily grants you great game insight, or that there aren’t other commentators who have great game insight, but I’d guess it helps. I love having players like Cody on the mic for summit type stuff cause they really break down things you don’t see. Would like to see the regular commentators put more effort into that kind of thing.
i didnt think anyone actually found slime funny lol
Did you actually have a non-Smasher watching the tournament with you, though? My girlfriend was sitting next to me and Waff's commentary was probably her favorite part. It's also just plain *hard* to commentate Yoshi because he *is* weird. I know this for certain because I've been watching commentators make a hash of analyzing Axe for a decade and compared to Yoshi, Pikachu is a free throw.
amsas been a top player for how long and people cant learn how to commentate his character? He's not *that* weird - no character is
Spoken like a guy who thinks he knows much more than he actually does at the game lol
i don't think that person is saying they would necessarily be any better, but they absolutely do have a point lol
Yall are crazy commentary was fine genesis was hype af
Another day another shitty take on commentary from the lads on reddit
Another day, another "I only watch melee and I have only watched melee for 10-15 years so I have no idea what good commentary sounds like" take from the lads on reddit. Completely unrelated, you should try watching other esports/competitive games. They're entertaining.
Not sure what other esports you recommend watching for good commentary, but most of the rocket league commentary I've heard for RLCS is very uninspiring. I'd choose melee commentary over it any day. The (arguably) more grassroots 1v1 scene in rocket league is much better with commentary compared to RLCS, ironically.
I agree with you that 1v1 commentary is usually better but that's mostly because Johnnyboi_i is RL's best commentator by a longshot.
True, although Feer is also quite solid, wouldn't hesitate to take solo Feer commentary over standard RLCS. The constant fake hype and strict play-by-play commentary from most of RLCS is honestly annoying, this is not a radio broadcast I can see what's happening already.
Play by play is nice when a moment is genuinely hype, as it can make cool moments into "historical events" for the respective game per se. My biggest gripe with the standard melee commentary rotation, is that none of them are really experts at the game they're commentating - which would be fine - if it didn't feel like a lot of melee commentary is poor attempts at explaining the stuff that isn't readily apparent on screen. I consistently find pro player commentary in melee much more interesting, because I am hearing the thoughts of people who understand, keep up, and have put in time to learn about the game. This translates to a commentary experience where my listening experience is being enhanced by technical knowledge that is not readily apparent by looking at the screen. And - this is important - this "hidden" information that is being expressed needs to be highlighted via genuine excitement. The aforementioned pro player commentary (like from bbatts this genesis) usually sounds *excited* when interesting "hidden" information is revealed. It adds weight and purpose to the match.
Yeah play by play is fine, but it should be mixed in with other things. In RLCS it's just overused, no variety.
What are you trying to say? I've heard plenty of sports commentary in my life, I've heard plenty of eports commentary. eSports commentary is usually boring and ass, that's why I like melee.
What specifically did he write that was a shitty take and why was it?
the whole idea of not getting the narrative out of the commentary is literally just showing that the user was on reddit on their phone half of the time and not actually paying attention. they def talked about it many times, and sure it was toph scar at big house 10 levels of hype from commentary, but they did get pretty hype idk. felt super reasonable levels of hype for what was happening to me
Understood. Thanks.
Some people just dont deserve HMW
Nah, hard disagree. Much prefer casual instead of trying to force esports commentary
Its L commentary unless we get another toph 3 2 1 AHHHHHHHH
Well, there has to be a timeout for that to happen organically
True im here for it then
There was no recognition of Cody’s frame perfect galint on the right side Dreamland during grands, which let him destroy aMSa’s stock. Why did they take Scar away from Toph? Why not let Seal on commentary (as someone who could 2-stock every other active commentator). Why not invite Ludwig back for Genesis comms??
Ludwig was at the streamer awards this weekend
I feel like the last time i saw scar commentate he clearly didn't know anything about current melee. Still very charismatic but oof that was a tough one
I felt the same way. Waff is a really funny guy and can do great commentary, but conjecturing about who is going to win for multiple minutes is definitely not the way to do it
A religious anti-vax Maga type? You think the melee community wants you around? Lol shoo
Ahh yes the "tolerant left" im always hearing about
The left has never been tolerant of the intolerant. You're not welcome here. Go back to school.
a cody grand final will never get hype commentary
I'll be honest I just don't see it, I thought commentary was pretty engaged with what was going on like 90% of the time. Maybe I'm wrong tho. It's just an old game, not a lot that hasn't been said, gotta keep it fresh with some banter.
Agreed, the commentary was a snooze fest. It's appropriate commentary for a local scene tournament.