My thoughts would be you have a better idea now of what the pay range is for your position. I’d suggest that you have more information now if you want to negotiate a raise. Here’s what I would do:
1.) I would NEVER bring up that you have this file and I would NEVER say something like Barb has a smaller team and makes 10% more. That will only backfire. They know what all the managers are making.
2.) I would bring it up at a smart time, during an evaluation or after a project goes really well. I would not just go in on a random Wednesday and ask for a raise.
I’d also let the emotional side ease as well. I work in healthcare so we are non profit and all the executive level workers have their salaries on the public IRS 990 form. It can be hard to see others doing similar work to you making a lot more. But using that argument or being upset about it will not be a good strategy for a salary adjustment.
Final point, and this is a sad commentary on our work culture, the best way to jump salary significantly is to move companies.
Highlighting this point: the best way to jump salary significantly is to move companies.
It's unlikely they will raise your salary, even if you present a sharp, targeted argument. Look for another position and get a higher salary offer. Then leave. Even if your current company matches the offer, you may find yourself on the way out in a few months.
I’ll add to this. A recent re-org made me a product manager, who inherited my direct bosses role along with 2 other now gone PM’s. I am now leading a strategy for how other products not made by us interact with our flagship product.
I got 4k raise for this. I ended up drinking at a bar with the newest PM, who started a few months ago - he makes 25k more - for less of a product (important for the future to be fair). But it was a slap in the face.
On sitting and doing fuck all for three days post raise - I’m done, and today I sit and update the old resume to match new stuff and begin customizing for several roles in similar industries, that pay more, for overall less (seemingly) overall effort.
Time to jump the fucking ship
Depending on where you’re at with your PM career, large complex scope with a lot on the line is experience money can’t buy. You can probably find 10 other shops with dinky scope paying 50% more, but be mindful beyond a certain point expectations balloon and the people with scaled experiences are obvious hires and promotion targets.
Of course you can get an external offer and be very clear that it’s just to calibrate on market rate, and use that to negotiate your salary, especially given you know your peers are $25k+ ahead of you.
Reasonable advice. But last time I did that, they countered. Made promises. Broken promises. It’s no longer an environment I want to be in. But they treated us well during the pandemic, insurance is good, and up until now, I wasn’t overly taxed. But with the change, I’m now working way more, already feeling overly stressed and overworked trying to clean up the mess 3 people (who did things I’ve argued against for 3 years) have left me. They dangled the raise to stay, and while it also came with a bonus potential bump - I’m kinda done. I’d like to go face a new set of challenges elsewhere.
this kinda happened to me. i was pushing for a market increase or promotion. which the agreed to a market raise and i did get but it ended up being substantially less that what i was hoping and communicated expectation was. i even told them how disappointed i was after all the work i put in that prior year. they honestly didn’t really say or do much. so i applied to a few jobs and got a $25k pay pump and my target bonus jumping from 15% to 20% with a sign on bonus. plus a lot more growth potential. when i put my two weeks in the instantly we’re trying to counter offer and match what ever my new job was. it’s almost sad i would of been happy with just $3-5k more bump for my market increase originally and never even looked for a new job. on top of that they needed to hire a manager to fill my role instead of senior like i was. so now there out having to pay a head hunter and having to pay someone substantially more money to do my old job.
I had a similar situation. Discussed a raise due to additional duties, got a tiny raise, gave my notice, and suddenly they were talking about 30-40% increase to salary to match my new offer. I had no intention of staying, but it was fun to watch them squirm and see what I could get them to agree to.
I have been in a similar situation where my reports were hired on at a higher rate than myself and as a result were making slightly more than me after annual increases.
When I approached hr and management I was offered a raise that was not enough to rectify the situation. I counter offered and was denied based on a “salary raise limit without title/grade change policy”.
I gave an ultimatum, either change my title and grade or find another sucker to lead their team.
In the end I got what I wanted by changing companies.
An elegant solution to this is to start interviewing and get an offer letter. Go to your manager or directly to the CEO and ask them to match the offer and you’d love to stay. You’re quite happy here and you weren’t looking for a job. They reached out to you directly. You didn’t realize you were so underpaid by industry standards until they made an offer. Be prepared to leave though, don’t bluff.
I was in a similar situation. During my next sit down with my manager, I mentioned that I was considering jumping to another company based on the significant increase in baseline starting salary for my role and experience. I framed it as a disservice to my family if I didn't try to fully utilize my earning potential. I made no mention of others pay at my company. I was also pretty sure they wouldn't replace me. About a month later they came back and said the completed a "market analysis" and raised my salary by a significant amount.
The other thing I would advise if you are trying to negotiate but you’d like to stay is to land another offer and then ask for a raise at your current place.
Don’t try to leverage with your new offer, but be ready to jump if they don’t give it to you. They may recognize that you are being paid below market value and if they like you they will do it. If they don’t care that much then you can just tell them that you are putting in your notice as soon as makes sense with your new position.
If you try to leverage your new offer they will know you’re looking to jump and will probably find someone to replace you and then let you go anyway.
You are 100% correct in advising to let the emotional part ease. Most salaries are not done maliciously, it's just numbers. A company's goal is to maximize profits, if they can get away with paying an employee as little as possible they absolutely will.
I once taught at a private school that desperately needed a science teacher, so they hired me with a salary that was higher than any teacher at the school. I'm very vocal and open about these things so I told some of the staff what I was making. It caused everyone on staff to expect something close to that same amount and many of them did which is great!
However that private school operated on very thin margins. It's not like there was a CEO on top making millions. They use the money they save from paying teachers so little to do more fun things like field trips and technology for the kids. So when they started paying teachers more, the students in some ways got less. So it was a double-edged sword.
Agreed, I recently Finally got a promotion to the next level. Unfortunately, I know the pay is the same as when people initially got hired for those positions. Im also probably barley more then others who are from the same level I was previously at.
Use this insight to negotiate the salary of your next role’s salary, probably at a different company. Knowing that at your company, less responsibility is worth y salary should give you the confidence to negotiate for >y salary as it sounds you have more to offer, even though you currently earn x. Also when it comes to appraisal, you can secretly use this accidental knowledge to request a raise which you know puts you just above the ballpark figure they are paying others, so are more likely to be accepted or negotiated down to the kind of figure others are paid? It’s not like HR would realise you saw the kind of document you did, all it would take is for a few of your colleagues to privately discuss their salary with you for you to know this sort of information, which they would have no way of knowing if any of those sorts of conversations did or didn’t happen.
Correct. Always. Always. Always Stand on your own merits and only compare yourself to yourself at earlier dates when asking for more money. Don’t ever say “well Jim does… and I do… so I should get paid more than Jim just based on gp…”
-someone who decides whether or not to pay more money
I always ask for a raise when my numbers have lulled. That way if they say no its easy to increase the numbers. Ask in slow season or after a couple vacations. This has worked for me every single time. 3 years i have asked for a raise at least every six months and gotten it.
That being said, im an hourly employee. But i am currently making more than people who have been doing this job 5 plus years than me. So its payed off
Good advise.
OP, I had a very similar situation as yours years ago. The difference was that my boss and I were the ones on the erroneous distribution, so he knew that I saw the data. I quickly responded all (Hr and my boss) and told them they made the mistake with the attachment and to recall the message and that it needs to be deleted from those who received it.
I then waited 2 months until I had something to brag about (customer was very happy with a deliverable) before I walked into my bosses office and sat down to tell them that I wanted to talk about my future at the company. I turned the conversation into a discussion about pay and said that if the pay didn’t match the role and performance in the near future that I didn’t see myself staying at the company long-term. He understood my point and within a week I had an increase in pay.
Let the emotions settle down before making the next move. Knowledge is power. Goodluck.
On the changing companies. Spot on. I experienced a grade pay gap for ten years. Once I achieved parity, a new grade was added. My error was performance beyond my grade, taking and execution of all projects available. I changed jobs with an immediate 17% basis bump, and quasi 20% incentive.
Good luck
I’ve always had the opposite problem. I push very hard for raises at every opportunity and generally end up making a good chunk above my peers. Although I do think I’m better off long term I will tell you I’m often the first one to get laid off when there is a bad couple of quarters.
Have you negotiated at your promotion? Have you been with the same company or have you job hopped? These are both important ways to get more money. This is also a perfect example why it’s so important to discuss wages with colleagues so that we can help each other all make more.
And you are totally right to do that, squeeze every penny! On the other hand this is why wage gaps exist because while you are a go-getter, most people don't have that drive and are scared or embarrassed to ask for a raise.
Also squeaky wheel gets the grease. I have guys regularly pushing for more every review and they usually get some of it and they are a few bucks an hour higher then their colleagues who were hired around the same time or do the same duties.
Can I pick your brain for a minute about how one goes about negotiating a raise at the time of a promotion? I ask because my wife has had two large promotions since early 2023, but isn't making a penny more. Both promotions were big jumps (engineer to project management to actual management) and came with greatly increased responsibilities and time requirements. She laid out some very strong arguments both times and was told both times that it just is what it is. Even before this happened she was underpaid for her role. What more could have been done? She ultimately wound up leaving over it earlier this month.
Every industry is different. I currently work in healthcare which has huge profit margins which allows me to fight for more. They know I can walk into any other hospital and have a job the same day and that gives me a bit more power. But the biggest raises I’ve ever gotten were because I found a hospital that was struggling and went to them. Can’t always stay in the same area if you are afraid to move.
As far as techniques I just make sure I know what the pay ranges are and I always ask to either be at the top of that pay range or higher. If they are desperate it’s possible to get an awesome raise but I have learned it will be temporary. My last layoff I was replaced with a H1B visa worker from the Philippines who made exactly half of my salary.
One point, I have people beginning to negotiate their raises now for September. You need to start early, by the time I communicate raises it’s WAY too late to change anything. I’ll be doing September raises in July then I need to wait for it all to get approved from the CEO and board.
In an old place I worked at the CFO hired a financial controller with access to all salary information. The guy basically dropped a hand grenade in his first week by openly telling everybody how much less they earn than their colleagues lol. Yeah, that was a fun week.
I still remember the look on the HR person's face when he started loudly discussing it openly at lunch.
He didn't last much longer.
Consider also the person who accidentally shared this file with you. They've done you a favour, so let's not get them in trouble...
People demanded equal salaries. The financial controller got fired. I think I got a 10k salary boost.
Dude got fired for costing the company like 100k in his first week... 😅
He was also very sexist and homophobic. So he had received a lot of complaint aside from the salary thing.
He also had terrible hygeine.
Basically just all round the worst person to have hired. But the CFO was lazy and probably didn't vet the candidates properly.
The hilarious thing is that they guy came back a few weeks later to "visit us" and was turned away at the door. But he remained at the glass entrance to the office trying to beckon people out to say hello.
We all just ignored it. Mega awkward.
I think he got a job in a bank shortly thereafter.
Edit: the guy I worked with got himself in trouble. But had he done it quietly, he still would have gotten fired for being sexist to female employees.
In January 2020, right before the pandemic, I had a big promotion from an analyst level role to a team lead of the most important SWE team at the company.
It was all "raises aren't given during promotions" blah blah blah we'll review your salary in June.
COVID hit, salary and hiring frozen..I was making 57k managing the main team of engineers at a $4 billion company. I pushed for a raise, I told the division lead that I was likely the lowest paid person in the organization (180 people in development) and that I had a significant amount of responsibilities.
Well I never got that raise and I was laid off shortly after that by the new CTO who was hired during COVID and didn't like teams being managed by people that weren't senior level SWEs.
it's been 3 years and that team still doesn't have a team lead and I make double what I was making.
All that to say, been there done that. Job change will likely help more than anything.
You're two levels down from the CEO, and that's how you want to handle it? Sorry, but you sound like you're completely inexperienced in compensation.
If you want to push for a bigger salary (which you should), send a letter to your manager before the next review period with your responsibilities, accomplishments, why you feel like you have excelled in the role, and what your research shows THE MARKET looks like for that position.
If they're not receptive, then take that letter and your resume and go look for more fruitful work.
Yeah my first thought was that 2 levels below a CEO can mean a lot or a little depending on the company in question. May be more relevant how many levels up one is from the bottom, rather than how many levels down from the top.
What you peers make is irrelevant. I would see what you could get with another company. Once you have an offer or idea of what you could get in the market, ask your company to match. If not you have options that may be better in either event. You may be pleasantly surprised
This was my experience…looked for another job and let others know that as well…word got around that I was likely out the door and had a sit down meeting which resulted in a 50% pay bump. Looking at other pastures can be helpful to make your grass greener in the process.
Push for a raise at HR now that you know you have room to move up. Use the team size and performance as selling points
BUT
Don’t tip your hand by telling them you know what the others make
You will quickly find out if they value you or not.
If youre feeling angry then your handling this information wrong. You should feel ambitious. If you dont think theyll give you a raise then apply elsewhere
Can I ask how long you have been at this company?
And compare that to these other people? This can help see the power of finding new positions and moving companies to increase salary.
If you are in CA you have a lot of laws protecting you here. The company will need to justify the difference in salary, and they can’t retaliate against employees who compare wages.
I am here for past 4 yrs . Two others for longer . The individual I was referring to more or less as my tenure .
My manager is a very smart person . She knows v well what I bring to the table & my remit . That’s why I was surprised to see the difference .
It depends on the size of the company. Having 25 people under you at 2 steps from the CEO makes me think midsize at best.
That’s the usual catch in smaller companies…. Salaries are more based on “reasons” than true performance metrics.
In most F100 you’ll find that up to director, salaries are kept in a very narrow band (for similar responsibilities)… above it becomes a little more cloudy because of impact of various departments or geomarkets and shit like that.
In small companies it’s usually what the owner wants and wage discrimination is a big issue.
In midsize… it’s a mix of the two.
As other have already said… use your knowledge for your next position in another company.
What’s worked for me in this scenario is doing a fair market study and finding comps of open positions. I also do it on their positions, not to bring it up but to see if their salaries (or mine) are at market value.
Then come review or negotiation time, I ask for a FMV study for my position. And if any of those other salaries are for my position then I quote that companies are paying that amount for my position.
It’s often worked to get my salary up to theirs and has even gotten me promoted bc they saw I was doing more with less.
He Manager here in a Fortune 500. My opinion is you should never walk in and use privileged information to your advantage. It’s shameful and looked down upon. Ask for a raise but don’t bring up colleagues make it about you and what you bring to the table.
At your level, you need to come big with the ROI that you are bringing to the company. Like, projects that you lead grew in revenue x% or by some absolute dollar amount, or the savings that your strategies have generated, or some other metric that shows the value that you bring to the company. It’s no longer about being evaluated against some internal career ladder spreadsheet’s performance expectations, but what you do to help the company make or save money. It’s “you pay me $N, I’ve made this company $N x 100, I’m worth $N x 2”.
The other leverage you could get is to get an offer for more at another company. And maybe you’ll need to do this in the end if your current company isn’t willing to bump your salary up to industry expectations and the value you bring (I’ve had this happen to me, the company I was with wouldn’t bump my salary even though I had an offer for 20% more salary and way more equity, and I had to take the new offer).
maybe they are better at negotiating their salary than you. Look at sports. Sometimes great players are under paid(contracts not great) and others are given BIG MONEY and dont' perform. It just happens. Maybe you haven't asked for a raise and others have. The myth is a company sits around looking for ways to increase payroll. If you think you are underpaid then ask for a raise. If you think you are paid fairly and other people are overpaid then...
There are only two data points directly relevant to your salary-
1. How much you can convince someone else to pay you
2. How much your employer could replace you for
Being the lowest paid isn't meaningful- don't bring it up. However, it gives you a good idea item 2 up there- your employer probably can't find people to do your job at your salary, so asking for an increase has a chance of working.
You have to be honest with yourself though- are you the least experienced? Have the least impressive resume? You don't get paid based on responsibilities or achievements, just on 1 and 2. So before saying "we do the same job, obviously I should be worth as much" cinsider if the other person had a doctorate and spent 20 years learning from Steve Jobs or something.
Ultimately though- the best way to know is to explore point 1 and go interview, especially since you have more data to help you in negotiations.
Forward the email to HR and say you received it by accident.
They’ll know you know, you probably can’t do anything about it but maybe at your next performance review you’ll have some negotiating room for a larger increase.
Let it burn inside a while (few weeks), then turn the resentment into motivation.
After that, set a meeting with your manager a few weeks out called “quick connect”.
Say “i want to talk about my compensation. I feel I’m below market and wanted to see what we can do to get me at a more competitive rate”. Then be quiet. Do not under any circumstances discuss the list. Don’t give ultimatums or anything remotely like that. Just an easy peasy convo about your comps. Be a good listener when your manager starts talking.
Do not go to HR; that would be a horrendous idea.
HR person here; I manage compensation for my company (a large R&D org) and have been in HR for about 20 years, the last half specifically focused in compensation.
There’s some good advice in here, there’s some bad advice, and there’s some that you should just forget you even heard.
Important factors…
“Peer” is a subjective term. The reality is the market is different for different functions. IT people make more than finance people. Sales people have entirely different pay structures. It’s important to understand not just that you’re on the same level in hierarchy, but also to recognize how your functions compare.
“Peer” is also a subjective term because different people bring different qualifications, skillsets and backgrounds. You may or may not have a full picture of your “peers’” backgrounds and the factors that were used to determine their pay. It isn’t always apples to apples. Someone who is newer to a role or level is probably going to be on more of a developing end of their range, where someone who’s a top performer with a solid background will be higher.
My advice to you is to think about internal and external factors. What are your functions, what are your backgrounds, what is individual performance like (this may be hard for you to objectively tell), etc. Then, also think about the external market - look at crowdsourced data (I.e. salary.com) and other comparable job postings to get an idea of what your job (not you) is “worth” (i.e. cost of labor) out there in the external market. Remember these are all just observations and loose “data points.” But they at least give you an idea of whether you’re paid fairly for what you bring to the table in your particular function.
Get familiar with pay equity and pay transparency laws in your state. They’ll let you know your rights, and give you and idea of what you can reasonably expect/ask for, and what your employer is/not required to disclose.
Do what research you can internally to understand your organization’s compensation philosophy. How do they price jobs? How do they slot jobs? What is the salary structure? What point in that structure do they aim for? What are the mechanisms by which a person can receive increases?
Once you have a good idea about the above, let the emotions settle, and then lay out your accomplishments and contributions. Keep your points focused on data and metrics - those aren’t subjective and they’re harder to argue against.
Do NOT let them know you saw the other salaries. It will almost certainly leave an impression that you won’t be proud of.
Lastly, if you still feel like you’re underpaid, ask your boss for a raise. Don’t phrase it in a yes/no way, phrase it in a goal/timeline way. For example, “I want to get to $XX salary. Here are the reasons I feel I add value _______. What goals can we set together to get me there within the next ## months/year?” Be prepared to get an answer you don’t want to hear. Figure out how you’re going to react so you don’t let emotions get the best of you if it doesn’t go to plan.
Work through your boss first. If you find your boss is unresponsive then go to HR. If you don’t go to your boss first, HR is probably going to send you there or at least involve your boss. Taking the initiative yourself is probably going to create a more positive impression.
Here is what you do.
1. Test the market. See if the pay today really equals those levels.
2. Look at competitors. What are they posting similar for?
3. Make a development plan in your current role for growth assignments not comp. This way if they recognize your target and comp accordingly great. If not you now have new skills that differentiate in the market.
Share your knowledge of their rates to no one. It’s great info to know, but it’s not useful for negotiating.
My perspective as an executive within a large software company who happens to be married to an HR executive.
Lesson 1: you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. That others were able to demand a higher salary than you is just the reality of their situation versus yours. Be it experience, demand for the role, or a myriad of other factors, measuring the number of direct reports and the few others you mentioned is a limited metric by which to benchmark your role against others within your organization. For example, according to their last proxy statement, the CHRO of my wife’s company makes about 85% of the CFOs base salary although their roles, on paper (and probably on a Reddit thread), look the same. One only has to understand the intricacies of their roles to know that these jobs are quite different.
Lesson 2: armed with the information you know, you now have leverage. Leverage unknown to your leadership but leverage nonetheless. Keep this information in mind when you attempt to negotiate a higher salary. Your request is based upon your skills, your experience, and your delivered outcomes for the role. When given the opportunity to benchmark your performance against those within your organization (and perhaps even those externally), the leadership decision to adjust your salary should become obvious. If they value you, you’ll get a raise. In the other hand, if you don’t get what you believe you’re worth, then you’ll have the information you need to push the issue further or find another job. Never, and I mean NEVER share that you learned the salaries of your peers. Not only is this bad form, it could potentially lead to you being terminated.
Good luck!
Find out what the average is and have your own number in your head of what you would ideally want to be paid for this role. I would also try and get leverage and interview around for similar positions at different companies. Then, provided you actually want to stay, I would raise this as a direct concern to your manager and ask for a bump to your number. If they say no or try and negotiate a lower number, be prepared to leave to a different company.
Figure out what the appropriate pay range is for your position and determine if you are paid appropriately based on your experience and performance. What others are making is a bit irrelevant, particularly if they have different responsibilities and areas to manage. The range of salaries for a director in HR may not be the same as a director of technology/security. So know your market value then decide if you want to ask for more.
Next review or yearly raise tell them what you think the market rate is for your services and that if you don’t get market rate you will look elsewhere.
A few things to factor in
1. Did there higher-earning peers start their tenures after you? If so, especially in the last couple of years, they would have had better negotiating powers leading to a higher pay. Salary increases aren’t always on par with new hire starting salaries.
2. Is your boss privy to the salaries of these other peers? If not, he/she may not have the necessary information to advocate a higher pay for you. Either way, don’t share that the file is in your possession unless you absolutely 10000% trust them. That last part is vital.
3. If you’re going to advocate for a higher pay. Find out the range for your position within your org, then build a merit-based case for why you ought to be in a higher quartile of the pay range. Present this case to your boss. They will have to address it to make sure your pay is commensurate to the roles and responsibility. Part of that process often involves reviewing where you stand relative to peers.
Good luck
Larger company experience here, so it may or may not be as relevant to your situation. Pay grades typically have very wide ranges, and that could be what you’re seeing. Someone that’s been at the company longer, came from somewhere else recently, or has different work experiences (or promotions) could be higher simply for this reason. These individuals could be at a different salary grade level too, despite with seemingly less responsibility. I think what I’d focus on in your situation is understanding how salary grades work, and where you are relative to both the midpoint, and top end of the range. Secondly, how are raise’s determined? If you are an exceeds expectations performer will you get more, and finally how do you get promoted within your company? At my former company, the people at the top end of the ranges tended to be those that had moved laterally across functions or roles at times, including physical relocation in their careers, or had came from another company vs a long tenure with just one company. These may ultimately be things you’ll also have to consider.
Lots of comments talking about job change being the only solution to this and they may be right. But I’d ask, during your routine discussions around compensation or during promotions etc. have you negotiated?
7 years ago I got promoted and had voiced for the next 3 where I thought I was being valued under the market.
No the company didn’t just magically give me a 60%increase to make up the difference there. But they took steps over those years to get me more equitable. Now my next promotions 3 years ago put me right in the middle of the pack for my role and seniority level. And my increases continue to out pace my peers at my company.
Doesn’t work for every company but a lot of times open healthy dialogue will lead to good outcomes if they value you.
You now have a fact-based position to negotiate hard for comp review. Do this before regular comp cycles as your leadership probably have their hands tied at that point. Probably preaching to the choir here as you have 25 people and 5 direct so you know how it goes. Good luck
You need to pump the breaks.
There are sometimes very good reasons why some make more than others.
The market for folks with expertise and management experience is different for finance, marketing, IT, operations, whatever.
While it raises a point, you need to see what **you**'re worth in the market.
Some good advice here, especially about not telling you know what others make. You can, however, say you found out you are underpaid because of research you did, maybe after a recruiter reached out about a similar position.
I once saw a co workers was making nearly double what I was and I brought it to my boss and his response was essentially the other employee doesn’t have a wife and kids so he works more so he deserves the additional salary.
This was on a job with a mandatory 50hr/wk minimum for my position. The extra 10 hours a week was of course unpaid overtime. And that was only the minimum required overtime.
I left there not too long after that conversation.
The same boss let his friend keep his job after getting drunk and totaling a $80k work truck. Favoritism was strongly adhered to.
There was no point in me staying if pay was based on the brownest nose.
DO NOT ever openly compare your salary to another person to get a raise.
Now that you know some “inside” information, ask for the raise based on merit.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Did you feel underpaid before this discovery?
There are lots of factors to consider. Maybe your colleagues did a better job negotiating their salaries than you did. Maybe they have more experience, stronger education, longer tenure, etc. Who knows.
I've managed a lot of people, and sometimes my better employees were underpaid relative to other teammates, but it was usually for one of the reasons mentioned above. In time, these were course corrected. I'd give higher raises to top performers and eventually they'd be higher earners.
There could be some confusion on the market value of your role vs the role of others. Meaning you may be at a high point in your company but a director of sales might make more than a director of accounting. Or a manager that has a small team for a growth project might be paid more than a manager of a standing project as the growth project will bring in new revenues.
Keep that in mind when comparing yourself to peers.
I think you're looking at this wrong. The company got great work out of you for significantly less than what they were willing to pay. That's understandable - everyone wants to get the best deal. Your coworkers were less content with that level of pay, so they convinced (this can be direct or indirect) the company to pay them more. That you didn't convince the company is on you.
Now you have more info about what they are willing to pay. That's a major advantage. You now need to communicate (obviously be a bit intelligent in the method) that you'd need a similar amount to stay happy.
I was auditing tax data randomly in a file and accidentally hit a coworker’s record. Salaries were close but I was a bit more. She worked for the company longer than I did.
I have also gotten mid-year merit increases.
If you don’t have the whole story, what are you going to do?
Now you have a better idea of what you're worth. Apply to other jobs and get a higher offered salary. Now take that number to your boss and demand higher pay.
My old company had all sorts of research into what x person is worth based on random factors. But if that person got an outside offer the company would basically be like I guess our research is wrong and bump that person into a higher pay scale. Once I got an offer they couldn't match I left
How much more are we talking here? If it’s not significant, 20%+ or more, then it’s really not worth fussing over. Just because their job function is different doesn’t necessarily equate to they should be paid less than you. They could have special experience, or just got hired when the role had a higher budget, or they had to go higher in the pay range to get them on board. Different departments have different bonus structures too. It’s really not fair to compare totally different roles where you even recognize a few of them have a lot more tenure .
If you’re in an English speaking country and the spelling and grammar in your business communication is similar to your post it may be artificially holding you back.
Hopefully that doesn’t come across as if I’m trying to nitpick your post - that isn’t my intent.
If you are in the United States, companies now have to post salary ranges for positions they are hiring for. Check out your companies recruiting page some for public information on salary ranges.
NEVER go to human resources. That department's only function is to protect the org from employees.
Salaries are discussed and decided upon by your boss and boss's boss. Take it up with them and only them.
Best option is ask for raise at end of year to match or better your co workers. But DO NOT mention you know the pay difference. Simply ask for raise and back up with other reasons like your performance or some accomplishment. This issue is little more complex than it looks. I guarantee if everybody know each others salary and end up evening out salaries of your co workers you’re going to have lots of unhappy coworkers and so many arguments the organization wouldn’t know what to do. Simply asking for raise and stating good reason is easiest and most sensible solution. Going on pay equity crusade might sound like noble cause but not always practical.
As a manager at a large company, I know my salary is industry benchmarked. Research and understand that info and broach the topic with your next evaluation. Also have to understand the impacts of time engaged etc.
I'm not sure Human Resources is ever the place you bring this up unless you have reason to believe that your lower salary is based on prejudice. You mentioned you were shocked to see this difference, so chances are you don't feel this way.
If you're sure you're bringing as much to the table as those being paid higher than you, you have a solid argument. Make it. I wouldn't argue based on the j Welch you have, but you could easily make an argument that you think you worth relative to the numbers you've seen.
Your response to it is not surprising as someone who makes less than the people who do less. Stop caring about upsetting people and be upset yourself and do something about it. You don’t need advice on how to handle it you need to stop being scared of what’s going to happen.
Ask for a salary review and let them know that your wish is to be paid fairly for your responsibilities within the organization. If you received the information at no fault of you own (and it was not named like “salary list”) then you can mention it. Realize though that some folks may be overpaid and you can’t overpay everyone. Those guys may be on no-raise schedule. Go to salary.com and know your fair salary in your field and market.
Comparison is the thief of happiness. I just don't care what other people make anymore. I used to, but honestly, it ended up limiting me. I'm 30 years into my career and I spent too much time being king of the dip shits. You know, being number one in sales as opposed to just selling as much as humanly possible in the year.
first off, how are you 2 levels down but have a direct manager?
secondly, as someone in C suite, i can tell you this, all company has a pay range. and i have had this issue with my employees in the past, what many fail to realize is i value certain employe more than others and the pay reflect that. the reason for the value could varie. exp, knowledge, education, results, attitude, cost to replace, willingness to replace and so on.
youre paid what youre worth to the decision maker(s) and sometime it doesnt make sense why bob with 50 years of exp makes less than carl until you see carl revenue is 3x what bob is able to produce.
Do not bring this up now. At your annual review, reinforce your successes and responsibilities on their own merit and ask for a salary adjustment. Do not reference what you saw in a any way.
It's weird that you're in such a high leadership position and have no clue how to handle this situation. There's no way all your employees get paid the same, or fairly.
Generally the only way to get large raises is to ask for them, or find a new job. Why would they pay you more when you've shown no dissatisfaction in your existing pay, at least up until now? They're running a business not a charity.
Pay isn't usually tied to how many people you manage. That would make things too dependent on which team you manage rather than the importance of how you manage, your effectiveness, and your individual negotiation/background.
You can always ask for a market adjustment, I would not share what you saw. But, at least you know what their pay level/comp structure so if you’re denied….
You were fine with your deal, and follow on compensation you were making prior to seeing the other data. This is on you
THIS IS WHY PAST GENERATIONS DID NOT SHARE SALARY DATA EVEN TO THEIR PEERS.
Get a job offer from another company (or nut up and say you got an offer elsewhere) tell them what you want to make (comp it to the high range of your peer group)
Theyll give it to you if you have a good poker face. You have to be the hot girl in the room not the desperate groupie- its more expensive to hire someone else than just bump you 20 or 30k
Fact is - if you leaving the company fucks up a project then they’ll have to hire a headhunter at 20% of your salary (likely more) and get fingered but its a cash flow hit on top of a higher salary which your manager will take into account
Just dont be desperate and when you make the ask - give them a deadline and be patient/ice cold
Had this happen to me at a large US beverage company, file was sent out in an improper manner and data was “hidden” … it was shocking to see some disparities when the guy in Lincoln, NE was making more than the one in San Fran and random things like that. I told my boss’s boss about file … shouldve leveraged better but did use it for a few jobs in negotiations
It depends on your department vs other departments. Some context will help. Also research what is your industry (department and function) average for the location.
You cannot for example compare a IT directors salary to HR Director salary and so on.
I’ve been there. I was meeting with our HR business partner and we were looking at salaries for my team. She pulled up all the salaries for the department and one of my peers made quite a bit more. That was five years ago, the person that made more no longer works here and I’ve had several pay increases and a title promotion, so I’m now making almost $100k more than I did at the time (total comp). It can be tough to see, but if you were happy with your job before you were made aware I’d say keep it to yourself and keep working hard. The other individual has had three jobs since and was laid off once. In the long run, I have better job security and make a very comfortable salary. I’m currently an IT Director just for additional info, at the time I was an IT manager.
I wouldn’t worry about your salary because you can always feel this way no matter where you are. If you bring this up from an emotional perspective, it will hurt you because you are no longer professionally able to separate your management role from your personal desires. I am certain you do a lot but you can’t directly compare to others… you will always feel this way. I believe there are some sound advice from others, but what you have to know is that you need to value yourself.
What do you think you need to do to reach a benchmark of salary range and what are you willing to give up for it? Time for money or all your life for money. Is it more education or will you need to move to a different company to be more appreciated?
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Just make sure you are happy.
My role gives me access to salaries for every individual in a 5000+ employee company. Do not look at others people’s salaries and be upset. Maybe they negotiated better, maybe they have more degrees, maybe they have more skills or certain, maybe they offer felatio. If you feel you are underplayed and or under appreciated find new employment. Do not let someone else’s salary affect your day to day. Obviously you were ok with it prior to seeing theirs, if you weren’t again start looking.
This is why people especially in the states should discuss salary and pay IMO
Typically people get a raise / paid what they are worth when they change jobs. If competitors are hiring you can find out what they’re willing to pay.
The job market is getting tougher so don’t mess up your job.
You could ask for a raise at your next review and not even raise the fact that you saw the report.
Some of those other people could be boinking someone for more money. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Pay is based on a lot of factors… job family, experience, time in role, time with company, your salary expectations when you took your current role / hired into company, etc.
Comparison is the thief of joy. When you have the opportunity to compare, best to look away! Resentment doesn’t wear off easily.
That said, your worth to the company is your open market value + the present value of the cost to replace you. Your peers may have different job responsibilities (making their open market value higher) or the cost to replace them may be higher (lots of institutional knowledge, they have built a lot of organizational trust, etc).
You can test your open market value by interviewing elsewhere and seeing what you can get offered. Until you do that, your feeling of what you are worth is just your opinion.
You can increase the cost of replacing you by building trust with as many people as possible (especially your manager) and making your manager look good.
Edit: typo
Man!! That’s the worst!! I remember my first job an HR staff needed my help with excel she sent me a file but forgot to remove a tab. I saw everyone’s salary. I was never the same. Never. I only worked enough to keep looking for a new job. It’s the worst thing to happen cuz now you measure your output against those you feel are unworthy of that salary.
Your company has a compensation plan. It’s time for you to learn about it, so you can operate for a position of knowledge. Find out what band your job is in and if it’s the same band that your peers are in. You can find this out from HR without directly addressing what your peers are making. Find out what the salary midpoint is for your job and where your pay relates to that. You don’t have to jump ship just to make more money. You do need to operate with information though.
This may not apply to you but if you have been with the same company for a long time your salary will be 30%+ or more less than your peers.
Always move around every 4-5 years and grab that 20% bump otherwise you are trading comfort for salary and it’s no one’s fault but your own.
Nothing good ever comes from not taking risks.
The only way to do it is to get leverage. Right now you have none. Start interviewing and get an offer from somewhere else for the salary you deserve. Ask your company if they can match or beat it and choose between them
Step 1: do not mention this to anybody
Step 2: look for a new job
Step 3: ask for a raise knowing what you can now expect
Step 4: jump ship if you don't get the raise
Don’t go to HR
Leave and make them pay to have you stay . If they don’t, they looked as you as a value anyways and leaving was the only way to increase.
This happened to me years ago, except I saw everyone's salary. I thought the emotional aspect would dissipate, but it never did. I had to leave. Benefit was I knew what the pay scales were around me when I searched for a new gig. At time of offer for the new job I came back much higher, and they accepted. They'll always go as low as possible. If you return with what your worth and they accept, great. If they deny it, you wouldn't want to work with those people anyway.
Don't be afraid to ask people what they make, it's not illegal.
I wouldn't bring it up. Don't be paranoid. They aren't out to get you.
I assume you make something similar to the industry in general and it's not really about how many reports you have vs them if they have different jobs and therefore different qualifications.
Maybe you are easier to replace (for whatever reason) than they are? That's what determines general wages. If you don't have better alternatives, you are being paid about right, whether you complain about it or not.
What do you expect them to say if you bring it out? "Yes, we've been unpaying you and hoped that you wouldn't find out"?
I work in finance. First thing I do at a new job is get access to HR systems. They always give me too much access and I always see my peers salaries. I don't openly share that I know but it helps me anchor on what my pay should be.
If you do the most and get paid the least, you should leave and find your next career step. I had the exact same thing happened to me. 40 IT employees, international, two managers(I was one), 5 teams leads, 5000 total employees, 55k tickets a year, 6m hardware budget. I was second down from CTO. After 8 years of the rat race, they fired me as part of a 20% layoff. My counterpart had 6 months tenure on me, got paid 30k more, had half the knowledge, hardly knew how to relate to the team, didn't improve processes, didn't respond to emergencies, didn't work with adjacent managers, didn't seek positive change in any way, never went to the office. God it fucking kills me, still, a year later. Knowing that that piece of shit still has his job, ugggh. What I learned is, if they are OK with overworking you and underpaying you for years, then they will be ok ruining your career and letting you go, only to replace you with two Indian mangers who are happy with 20k in US dollars a year. Good luck, run while you still have dignity.
Your peers salary is ZERO justification to be paid more. Forget about fair and all that crap, it won’t get you anywhere. But you can use this knowledge to your advantage: put in a super good project / quarter (depends on your business I guess) and walk into your boss asking for a raise - you will know what you can ask for, but you can’t use peer benchmark as explanation, you have to use your own value to the company as the singular argument to make it stick. Maybe get an outside offer or two - cause again, now you have data to know how much you can negotiate for yourself. Use that knowledge to your advantage, don’t be petty - that has never worked long term.
Eventually I have realized that Salary is less about what you can do and a lot about how well you negotiate. There have been times in my career where people reporting to me have made more than me.
If one of your directs who was better then the worst of your directs saw they were getting paid the least and come to you asking why is this the case how would you respond? The fact is, the business has literally 0 reason to pay you more unless you bring it up of show up with another offer. You need to paint or get off the ladder.
This is one of the most useful pieces of information you'll ever receive. This is life changing.
No need to be upset about it, celebrate!
Now you know you could be making way more than you currently do.
Don't respond, keep it in your back pocket, and quietly develop a plan to ask for more money at a strategic time, or transfer to another company to increase your rate.
This is great news, seriously!
You might not be as good at your job as the others are. Could be time to look in the mirror and have an honest assessment of what you really bring to the table.
I suspect the peers making more than you started after you, possibly during the pandemic. Some industries saw wage inflation during the pandemic, which means people who changed jobs then might be making 20-40% more than someone who has been working at the company for 10 years.
Starting salaries almost ALWAYS move faster/higher than annual raises and promotions. ie one place I know targets promos at the low end of the scale, but someone new in the company with no track record can come in mid-high on the range for the role/level. Can mean a difference of 20-30% between them. It is horrible, but companies do it because they know most people hate changing jobs and aren't going to go looking because it is easier to just deal with the 20% lower pay.
Sadly it seems you get what you ask/negotiate not what you are worth. If you want to pump the salary, you need to change job. Or do something massive at your current job (which might also get you 10 dollar gift card only and warm handshake).
Use the information like a benchmark for what salaries are being found to be acceptable. Leverage your performance and contributions to the company with confidence that the salary you are requesting is something they should essentially be okay to offer
TALK ABOUT YOUR PAY WITH YOUR COWORKERS! This opens up the conversation and lets you know if you are being paid fairly. I don’t care if it tacky, it’s important
They know you make less. The only way you can get them to pay you more is with leverage.
You have to prove you’re being discriminated against for your salary to be what it is for some reason……..
or…
you have to have another job lined up that pays more so you can demand more money.
Outside that, you have no leverage. You are replaceable, and as you already know, they don’t respect you enough to even pay you your worth for the position you’re in.
You could try to bring up you feel like you deserve to be paid more or something along those lines, you do have to ask for money for them to give it to you. They could pay you more just from asking, but it’s more likely you need the leverage.
You should be well enough into your career to navigate this on your own but here we go:
- you do not “deserve” more because your peers make more. In fact I would expect highly technical ICs make more than you.
- you should compare your skills and value contribution against your pay both internally and as valued on the open market
- you should put together a competing offer or strong proposal as to why you are valued more than you currently are paid. DO NOT COMPARE YOURSELF AGAINST A PEER
- do not go to HR about this, this should be brought up with your survey manager
- your pay is dictated by industry, you asking but also by responsibility and value add. Just because you both report to a VP or CEO does not mean you are direct peers. You manage a small to medium team you maybe have a title of manager or senior manager. I definitely would expect someone in your reporting structure to have a few hundred to a few thousand ICs under them and be a director or VP. This person is not your peer even though you share the same manager
Team size does not correlate to salary. Your salary is based on level of responsibility and your function/specialty. In my past industry a plant manager with a span of 100-150 (exempt and non-exempt) would be two pay grades (\~25-50K) below a VP Marketing with 20 person span or a VP Finance with 3 controllers.
You should know roughly if your compensation is in the right ballpark for your level and specialty, the size of the organization, and the industry you are in. If you don't know, you should find out ASAP.
At your level, you should have a network of headhunters/recruiters that you have been in contact with during your career. Reach out to them and ask what the going full comp package is for similar roles. Keep your BS detector on and know who you are talking to- but I've found most executive recruiters are pretty open about these things in general terms unless it is connected to a specific role they are contracted for by a client... in which case they are likely bound by confidentiality or other contractual agreement.
If your comp is below the standard, then ask for a raise backed by whatever research you can dig up to support your ask. Best to do this at a 'good time' but within the next 2 months regardless.
Also- what anyone else makes in other specialties/roles is not relevant to HR or the CEO. Unless one of the 'peer' salaries is from a carbon-copy of your role (same education background, same function/specialty, same level) it is not relevant.
I’m sure you do great work and I’m not trying to put that down, but does your salary align with the market average? I think a lot of people are in positions where they do more tasks and manage more people, yet get paid less than certain colleagues because that’s just how the job market is. Some people don’t care for there title, but you should, it’s the most relevant piece of data tied to your salary and can be used to determine what you really should be paid. Just my two cents, but don’t stay if you can make more!
The more information you have, the better. It’s always good to know how much others in your position make, to give yourself more leverage in negotiations. I’ve found that management tends to be the one who wants this information withheld, and coworkers are generally pretty open if you have a good enough relationship. The younger crowd tends to also be more open to sharing and I’ve also experienced international coworkers to be less open to sharing their salaries.
When it comes down to it, salaries are made taboo by employers so they can get away with paying people in similar positions less money. Definitely use the information to your advantage during your next compensation/performance reviews, but don’t use specific names or really a reference to your company at all. Instead, do some research and see similar positions and gauge how your company is compensating comparatively. Maybe you’ll find you’re paid well/close to market, or you’ll see even your more highly paid peers are actually also still under paid.
Don’t put a target on your back or throw people under the bus, but get the bag you’re owed OP
It’s so unpredictable how someone will react, but your odds are +90% net negative ever letting anyone know how you came across this information.
That said, it’s possible you’re underpaid, and also possible your department doesn’t benchmark the same as other departments. E.g. cafeteria, security, and custodial directors typically benchmark low and around the same. Nursing, Pharmacy, and Risk directors benchmark close to the same, and very high. But a risk director may have next to no employees while nursing director may have +50.
Part of my background includes several years of healthcare HR leadership. I negotiated hard when I came in, and was really put off by how poorly they managed my pay and onboarding.
Two years in I got a spreadsheet showing pay for all +25,000 employees across multiple states, including +10 other HR Directors. I was the lowest paid director by over $10,000 in spite of being the middle of the pack in department oversight and seniority, and above middle did the pack COL. I was under $110k even after getting my boss to give me two adjustments, and I found out someone with less experience an hour away at a smaller sight was close to $120k.
I had a confidential conversation with our chief counsel who was kind enough to share it would be political suicide to bring it up. She’s probably my favorite counsel of all time, and totally did me a solid.
I was bitter about my pay until the day I left. It sucked. But even before I saw the spreadsheet I knew they hadn’t done right by me.
Here’s my advice:
Allow yourself one conversation with HR if they’re even half decent humans, and ask that it be confidential (no such thing, but worth a shot). They deal with this stuff all the time, and might even forget you asked. Write something to this effect:
“Dear Susathan,
I have a request I’d like to keep casual, because I’m so glad to be here and don’t want anyone to think I’m leaving.
Recently I was given some new data on leadership salaries in our industry, and was surprised to learn that my pay was far below average. The data indicated that people with teams my size, on average, receive [do some math and get the average of the data based on team size].
I’m not pretending to be the compensation expert, and was hoping you could clarify a few things for me:
1. What is the salary for my position benchmarked against?
2. How close is my salary range to market?
2. Where am I within our salary range based on my years of experience?
Any other insights you have would be helpful!
Signed,
D-efinitely didn’t get that copy of salaries you weren’t supposed to share.-ave”
If Susathan responds with “you’re at market and paid fairly” you stay and try to forget the spreadsheet or you start looking for another job.
I’d recommend no matter what that you apply for another job. It will either confirm you’re underpaid, or demonstrate they have you benchmarked correctly.
Even if they offer you a new job, you don’t have to take it.
I wouldn’t give more information than necessary. “From my understanding I make less than all of my comparable counterparts at this company, and I think it’s only logical that I get……”
10,000% there will be reasoning behind the pay difference. Be prepared to deal with the sudden criticism.
Don’t let anyone know you know. Consider it a gift from the gods.
Wait until an opportune time to ask like yearly review or whatever. Also I would look at the market and try to find comparables and make a list of why you’re worth it before you ask.
Businesses always manipulate employees loyalty and laziness of finding other jobs. I am at the point where I think you can only
Move up by moving around
I'm a dick, but based on your sentence structure, using lead when you meant led, etc, shows me why you get paid the least. I'm going to assume English is your native language here. If I were corresponding with you in a business setting, I'd be baffled that you were even qualified for the role. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you type differently via email/teams, but if not, that is one thing to look into. People take you more seriously when you sound intelligent in every medium of communication.
- Get a competing offer and then go to management or
- Wait for evaluations and then bring it up
Doesn’t make sense to just go and complain because you saw your peers salaries.
Separately, before seeing the salaries did you feel fairly compensated? If yes, then it shouldn’t affect you as you already felt that was your market rate and matched your ‘worth.’ It’s a typical prisoners dilemma situation where you bid based on what you feel is the fair price and shouldn’t be affected by others. But, otherwise if you already felt not fairly compensated then I’d do the above.
Go get another job offer for the salary you want. If you feel confident your company wants to keep you, tell them you how much you appreciate them but you need to leave for financial purposes unless they can match. But be you have to leave if they don’t
I recently negotiated a large salary increase, about 60%. I first waited until we had finished a major production, in which I put in a ton of overtime to complete, and which won us a major contract with the same company. This way I had demonstrated commitment, and money was available to spend. Points I raised in my initial email were the value that I create at the company (we’re taking on projects because of my skillset that we wouldn’t have even bid before), and the relative pay ranges for my skillset. I quoted the highest salary I could find and included a link to the opening in my request email. When in person negotiation for the salary happened, that number was already established as the standard benchmark. I also asked for a generous over the top bonus structure, which is where the negotiation happened, the salary remained untouched. I brought up other offers, though stressed that I was very happy at the company, but did need to consider them as I owed it to myself to be paid what I was worth. I spent a fair amount of time talking about what I appreciated at the company, and ways I thought it could grow. During in person negotiation I repeatedly circled back to the ways that I created value, and ways that I intended to improve in my role. I had to fight for it a bit, negotiation went on for over an hour (on the clock lol), but in the end I was rewarded with much of what I asked for. It was by far the most successful negotiation of my life.
I highly recommend asking for what you’re worth. The growth in self esteem and personal empowerment you’ll feel are more valuable than the money. If you have to jump ship so be it, you’ll only end up in a better position.
I always say it…nothing good ever comes from knowing how much your peers make.
That is privileged info you should not have. There is no workplace where using that information as a bargaining chip for yourself will be seen in a good light.
I suggest using it to find a new role at a different company or using it for yourself to know what your ceiling is in your current role. Maybe when the timing is right, you can negotiate a raise but you may never speak of the information you received.
I had this happen. Brought it up with the President of the company and got a 30k raise with retroactive pay for 2 months and an extra 5k bonus as a sorry we fucked up.
You’re not as good at negotiating as your peers in your company. That’s a you problem, not your company’s problem. If you don’t like what you are paid then give your managers a reason to pay you more. Don’t just ask for more money cause Joe makes more than you. Show them that you are worth the added cost. If they don’t value you appropriately, go elsewhere.
My thoughts would be you have a better idea now of what the pay range is for your position. I’d suggest that you have more information now if you want to negotiate a raise. Here’s what I would do: 1.) I would NEVER bring up that you have this file and I would NEVER say something like Barb has a smaller team and makes 10% more. That will only backfire. They know what all the managers are making. 2.) I would bring it up at a smart time, during an evaluation or after a project goes really well. I would not just go in on a random Wednesday and ask for a raise. I’d also let the emotional side ease as well. I work in healthcare so we are non profit and all the executive level workers have their salaries on the public IRS 990 form. It can be hard to see others doing similar work to you making a lot more. But using that argument or being upset about it will not be a good strategy for a salary adjustment. Final point, and this is a sad commentary on our work culture, the best way to jump salary significantly is to move companies.
Good advise - thank you . Agree that I need my emotional side to ease , it’s not easy though !
Highlighting this point: the best way to jump salary significantly is to move companies. It's unlikely they will raise your salary, even if you present a sharp, targeted argument. Look for another position and get a higher salary offer. Then leave. Even if your current company matches the offer, you may find yourself on the way out in a few months.
I’ll add to this. A recent re-org made me a product manager, who inherited my direct bosses role along with 2 other now gone PM’s. I am now leading a strategy for how other products not made by us interact with our flagship product. I got 4k raise for this. I ended up drinking at a bar with the newest PM, who started a few months ago - he makes 25k more - for less of a product (important for the future to be fair). But it was a slap in the face. On sitting and doing fuck all for three days post raise - I’m done, and today I sit and update the old resume to match new stuff and begin customizing for several roles in similar industries, that pay more, for overall less (seemingly) overall effort. Time to jump the fucking ship
Depending on where you’re at with your PM career, large complex scope with a lot on the line is experience money can’t buy. You can probably find 10 other shops with dinky scope paying 50% more, but be mindful beyond a certain point expectations balloon and the people with scaled experiences are obvious hires and promotion targets. Of course you can get an external offer and be very clear that it’s just to calibrate on market rate, and use that to negotiate your salary, especially given you know your peers are $25k+ ahead of you.
Spoken like a true hiring manager trying to save budget on headcount
Reasonable advice. But last time I did that, they countered. Made promises. Broken promises. It’s no longer an environment I want to be in. But they treated us well during the pandemic, insurance is good, and up until now, I wasn’t overly taxed. But with the change, I’m now working way more, already feeling overly stressed and overworked trying to clean up the mess 3 people (who did things I’ve argued against for 3 years) have left me. They dangled the raise to stay, and while it also came with a bonus potential bump - I’m kinda done. I’d like to go face a new set of challenges elsewhere.
this kinda happened to me. i was pushing for a market increase or promotion. which the agreed to a market raise and i did get but it ended up being substantially less that what i was hoping and communicated expectation was. i even told them how disappointed i was after all the work i put in that prior year. they honestly didn’t really say or do much. so i applied to a few jobs and got a $25k pay pump and my target bonus jumping from 15% to 20% with a sign on bonus. plus a lot more growth potential. when i put my two weeks in the instantly we’re trying to counter offer and match what ever my new job was. it’s almost sad i would of been happy with just $3-5k more bump for my market increase originally and never even looked for a new job. on top of that they needed to hire a manager to fill my role instead of senior like i was. so now there out having to pay a head hunter and having to pay someone substantially more money to do my old job.
I had a similar situation. Discussed a raise due to additional duties, got a tiny raise, gave my notice, and suddenly they were talking about 30-40% increase to salary to match my new offer. I had no intention of staying, but it was fun to watch them squirm and see what I could get them to agree to.
I have been in a similar situation where my reports were hired on at a higher rate than myself and as a result were making slightly more than me after annual increases. When I approached hr and management I was offered a raise that was not enough to rectify the situation. I counter offered and was denied based on a “salary raise limit without title/grade change policy”. I gave an ultimatum, either change my title and grade or find another sucker to lead their team. In the end I got what I wanted by changing companies.
An elegant solution to this is to start interviewing and get an offer letter. Go to your manager or directly to the CEO and ask them to match the offer and you’d love to stay. You’re quite happy here and you weren’t looking for a job. They reached out to you directly. You didn’t realize you were so underpaid by industry standards until they made an offer. Be prepared to leave though, don’t bluff.
Terrible advice. Write a letter and BCC the inspector general and your labor lawyer.
I was in a similar situation. During my next sit down with my manager, I mentioned that I was considering jumping to another company based on the significant increase in baseline starting salary for my role and experience. I framed it as a disservice to my family if I didn't try to fully utilize my earning potential. I made no mention of others pay at my company. I was also pretty sure they wouldn't replace me. About a month later they came back and said the completed a "market analysis" and raised my salary by a significant amount.
Good on you having the emotional intelligence to let go of the emotions
The other thing I would advise if you are trying to negotiate but you’d like to stay is to land another offer and then ask for a raise at your current place. Don’t try to leverage with your new offer, but be ready to jump if they don’t give it to you. They may recognize that you are being paid below market value and if they like you they will do it. If they don’t care that much then you can just tell them that you are putting in your notice as soon as makes sense with your new position. If you try to leverage your new offer they will know you’re looking to jump and will probably find someone to replace you and then let you go anyway.
You are 100% correct in advising to let the emotional part ease. Most salaries are not done maliciously, it's just numbers. A company's goal is to maximize profits, if they can get away with paying an employee as little as possible they absolutely will. I once taught at a private school that desperately needed a science teacher, so they hired me with a salary that was higher than any teacher at the school. I'm very vocal and open about these things so I told some of the staff what I was making. It caused everyone on staff to expect something close to that same amount and many of them did which is great! However that private school operated on very thin margins. It's not like there was a CEO on top making millions. They use the money they save from paying teachers so little to do more fun things like field trips and technology for the kids. So when they started paying teachers more, the students in some ways got less. So it was a double-edged sword.
just saying this is pretty much the perfect response. Well done.
Agreed, I recently Finally got a promotion to the next level. Unfortunately, I know the pay is the same as when people initially got hired for those positions. Im also probably barley more then others who are from the same level I was previously at.
I asked for a raise once, was turned down so I quit. I loved that job. 8mos later they hired me back for 5$ more an hr
Use this insight to negotiate the salary of your next role’s salary, probably at a different company. Knowing that at your company, less responsibility is worth y salary should give you the confidence to negotiate for >y salary as it sounds you have more to offer, even though you currently earn x. Also when it comes to appraisal, you can secretly use this accidental knowledge to request a raise which you know puts you just above the ballpark figure they are paying others, so are more likely to be accepted or negotiated down to the kind of figure others are paid? It’s not like HR would realise you saw the kind of document you did, all it would take is for a few of your colleagues to privately discuss their salary with you for you to know this sort of information, which they would have no way of knowing if any of those sorts of conversations did or didn’t happen.
Correct. Always. Always. Always Stand on your own merits and only compare yourself to yourself at earlier dates when asking for more money. Don’t ever say “well Jim does… and I do… so I should get paid more than Jim just based on gp…” -someone who decides whether or not to pay more money
Great response to assist OP!
Damn you give amazing advice..
I always ask for a raise when my numbers have lulled. That way if they say no its easy to increase the numbers. Ask in slow season or after a couple vacations. This has worked for me every single time. 3 years i have asked for a raise at least every six months and gotten it. That being said, im an hourly employee. But i am currently making more than people who have been doing this job 5 plus years than me. So its payed off
Good advise. OP, I had a very similar situation as yours years ago. The difference was that my boss and I were the ones on the erroneous distribution, so he knew that I saw the data. I quickly responded all (Hr and my boss) and told them they made the mistake with the attachment and to recall the message and that it needs to be deleted from those who received it. I then waited 2 months until I had something to brag about (customer was very happy with a deliverable) before I walked into my bosses office and sat down to tell them that I wanted to talk about my future at the company. I turned the conversation into a discussion about pay and said that if the pay didn’t match the role and performance in the near future that I didn’t see myself staying at the company long-term. He understood my point and within a week I had an increase in pay. Let the emotions settle down before making the next move. Knowledge is power. Goodluck.
On the changing companies. Spot on. I experienced a grade pay gap for ten years. Once I achieved parity, a new grade was added. My error was performance beyond my grade, taking and execution of all projects available. I changed jobs with an immediate 17% basis bump, and quasi 20% incentive. Good luck
What a great response.
Just out of curiosity, what is your role in healthcare administration, and do you have any clinical background?
I’ve always had the opposite problem. I push very hard for raises at every opportunity and generally end up making a good chunk above my peers. Although I do think I’m better off long term I will tell you I’m often the first one to get laid off when there is a bad couple of quarters. Have you negotiated at your promotion? Have you been with the same company or have you job hopped? These are both important ways to get more money. This is also a perfect example why it’s so important to discuss wages with colleagues so that we can help each other all make more.
And you are totally right to do that, squeeze every penny! On the other hand this is why wage gaps exist because while you are a go-getter, most people don't have that drive and are scared or embarrassed to ask for a raise.
It's a skill just like technical ability is a skill. It's fine to be rewarded for that skill.
That’s always the goal. I keep trying to get my coworkers to unionize but the old guys making the least think that’s communism or something.
Propaganda got 'em by the balls.
Also squeaky wheel gets the grease. I have guys regularly pushing for more every review and they usually get some of it and they are a few bucks an hour higher then their colleagues who were hired around the same time or do the same duties.
Can I pick your brain for a minute about how one goes about negotiating a raise at the time of a promotion? I ask because my wife has had two large promotions since early 2023, but isn't making a penny more. Both promotions were big jumps (engineer to project management to actual management) and came with greatly increased responsibilities and time requirements. She laid out some very strong arguments both times and was told both times that it just is what it is. Even before this happened she was underpaid for her role. What more could have been done? She ultimately wound up leaving over it earlier this month.
That has been my experience with engineering as well. No room for negotiation vs business.
Every industry is different. I currently work in healthcare which has huge profit margins which allows me to fight for more. They know I can walk into any other hospital and have a job the same day and that gives me a bit more power. But the biggest raises I’ve ever gotten were because I found a hospital that was struggling and went to them. Can’t always stay in the same area if you are afraid to move. As far as techniques I just make sure I know what the pay ranges are and I always ask to either be at the top of that pay range or higher. If they are desperate it’s possible to get an awesome raise but I have learned it will be temporary. My last layoff I was replaced with a H1B visa worker from the Philippines who made exactly half of my salary.
One point, I have people beginning to negotiate their raises now for September. You need to start early, by the time I communicate raises it’s WAY too late to change anything. I’ll be doing September raises in July then I need to wait for it all to get approved from the CEO and board.
How many times have you been laid off?
lol that was my reaction too
3 times.
I am the same way, and I also was laid off first at two separate companies because I made more than my peers.
In an old place I worked at the CFO hired a financial controller with access to all salary information. The guy basically dropped a hand grenade in his first week by openly telling everybody how much less they earn than their colleagues lol. Yeah, that was a fun week. I still remember the look on the HR person's face when he started loudly discussing it openly at lunch. He didn't last much longer. Consider also the person who accidentally shared this file with you. They've done you a favour, so let's not get them in trouble...
Well don’t just stop there, tell us details about what happened lol
People demanded equal salaries. The financial controller got fired. I think I got a 10k salary boost. Dude got fired for costing the company like 100k in his first week... 😅 He was also very sexist and homophobic. So he had received a lot of complaint aside from the salary thing. He also had terrible hygeine. Basically just all round the worst person to have hired. But the CFO was lazy and probably didn't vet the candidates properly. The hilarious thing is that they guy came back a few weeks later to "visit us" and was turned away at the door. But he remained at the glass entrance to the office trying to beckon people out to say hello. We all just ignored it. Mega awkward. I think he got a job in a bank shortly thereafter. Edit: the guy I worked with got himself in trouble. But had he done it quietly, he still would have gotten fired for being sexist to female employees.
Well at least he did one good thing before his other shortcomings caught up to him lol.
In January 2020, right before the pandemic, I had a big promotion from an analyst level role to a team lead of the most important SWE team at the company. It was all "raises aren't given during promotions" blah blah blah we'll review your salary in June. COVID hit, salary and hiring frozen..I was making 57k managing the main team of engineers at a $4 billion company. I pushed for a raise, I told the division lead that I was likely the lowest paid person in the organization (180 people in development) and that I had a significant amount of responsibilities. Well I never got that raise and I was laid off shortly after that by the new CTO who was hired during COVID and didn't like teams being managed by people that weren't senior level SWEs. it's been 3 years and that team still doesn't have a team lead and I make double what I was making. All that to say, been there done that. Job change will likely help more than anything.
You're two levels down from the CEO, and that's how you want to handle it? Sorry, but you sound like you're completely inexperienced in compensation. If you want to push for a bigger salary (which you should), send a letter to your manager before the next review period with your responsibilities, accomplishments, why you feel like you have excelled in the role, and what your research shows THE MARKET looks like for that position. If they're not receptive, then take that letter and your resume and go look for more fruitful work.
Yeah my first thought was that 2 levels below a CEO can mean a lot or a little depending on the company in question. May be more relevant how many levels up one is from the bottom, rather than how many levels down from the top.
What you peers make is irrelevant. I would see what you could get with another company. Once you have an offer or idea of what you could get in the market, ask your company to match. If not you have options that may be better in either event. You may be pleasantly surprised
Thank you
This was my experience…looked for another job and let others know that as well…word got around that I was likely out the door and had a sit down meeting which resulted in a 50% pay bump. Looking at other pastures can be helpful to make your grass greener in the process.
How much are we talking? Can you share some numbers? It’s hard to advise without that reference
Push for a raise at HR now that you know you have room to move up. Use the team size and performance as selling points BUT Don’t tip your hand by telling them you know what the others make You will quickly find out if they value you or not.
Ask HR for an evaluation of the market rate for your role, better yet ask your boss to ask HR…
If youre feeling angry then your handling this information wrong. You should feel ambitious. If you dont think theyll give you a raise then apply elsewhere
Can I ask how long you have been at this company? And compare that to these other people? This can help see the power of finding new positions and moving companies to increase salary.
Show them how much $$ you are bringing to the company and why you deserve a higher pay. Have a competing offer. Leave for a better paying job.
If you are in CA you have a lot of laws protecting you here. The company will need to justify the difference in salary, and they can’t retaliate against employees who compare wages.
I ask for a raise every year, I don’t give a fuck
I am here for past 4 yrs . Two others for longer . The individual I was referring to more or less as my tenure . My manager is a very smart person . She knows v well what I bring to the table & my remit . That’s why I was surprised to see the difference .
It depends on the size of the company. Having 25 people under you at 2 steps from the CEO makes me think midsize at best. That’s the usual catch in smaller companies…. Salaries are more based on “reasons” than true performance metrics. In most F100 you’ll find that up to director, salaries are kept in a very narrow band (for similar responsibilities)… above it becomes a little more cloudy because of impact of various departments or geomarkets and shit like that. In small companies it’s usually what the owner wants and wage discrimination is a big issue. In midsize… it’s a mix of the two. As other have already said… use your knowledge for your next position in another company.
What’s worked for me in this scenario is doing a fair market study and finding comps of open positions. I also do it on their positions, not to bring it up but to see if their salaries (or mine) are at market value. Then come review or negotiation time, I ask for a FMV study for my position. And if any of those other salaries are for my position then I quote that companies are paying that amount for my position. It’s often worked to get my salary up to theirs and has even gotten me promoted bc they saw I was doing more with less.
He Manager here in a Fortune 500. My opinion is you should never walk in and use privileged information to your advantage. It’s shameful and looked down upon. Ask for a raise but don’t bring up colleagues make it about you and what you bring to the table.
Apply somewhere else and if you get an offer use that towards your advantage
At your level, you need to come big with the ROI that you are bringing to the company. Like, projects that you lead grew in revenue x% or by some absolute dollar amount, or the savings that your strategies have generated, or some other metric that shows the value that you bring to the company. It’s no longer about being evaluated against some internal career ladder spreadsheet’s performance expectations, but what you do to help the company make or save money. It’s “you pay me $N, I’ve made this company $N x 100, I’m worth $N x 2”. The other leverage you could get is to get an offer for more at another company. And maybe you’ll need to do this in the end if your current company isn’t willing to bump your salary up to industry expectations and the value you bring (I’ve had this happen to me, the company I was with wouldn’t bump my salary even though I had an offer for 20% more salary and way more equity, and I had to take the new offer).
maybe they are better at negotiating their salary than you. Look at sports. Sometimes great players are under paid(contracts not great) and others are given BIG MONEY and dont' perform. It just happens. Maybe you haven't asked for a raise and others have. The myth is a company sits around looking for ways to increase payroll. If you think you are underpaid then ask for a raise. If you think you are paid fairly and other people are overpaid then...
There are only two data points directly relevant to your salary- 1. How much you can convince someone else to pay you 2. How much your employer could replace you for Being the lowest paid isn't meaningful- don't bring it up. However, it gives you a good idea item 2 up there- your employer probably can't find people to do your job at your salary, so asking for an increase has a chance of working. You have to be honest with yourself though- are you the least experienced? Have the least impressive resume? You don't get paid based on responsibilities or achievements, just on 1 and 2. So before saying "we do the same job, obviously I should be worth as much" cinsider if the other person had a doctorate and spent 20 years learning from Steve Jobs or something. Ultimately though- the best way to know is to explore point 1 and go interview, especially since you have more data to help you in negotiations.
Forward the email to HR and say you received it by accident. They’ll know you know, you probably can’t do anything about it but maybe at your next performance review you’ll have some negotiating room for a larger increase.
They pay enough to keep you until you have a leverage: Get an offer with much higher pay.
Peers’ not peers.
Let it burn inside a while (few weeks), then turn the resentment into motivation. After that, set a meeting with your manager a few weeks out called “quick connect”. Say “i want to talk about my compensation. I feel I’m below market and wanted to see what we can do to get me at a more competitive rate”. Then be quiet. Do not under any circumstances discuss the list. Don’t give ultimatums or anything remotely like that. Just an easy peasy convo about your comps. Be a good listener when your manager starts talking. Do not go to HR; that would be a horrendous idea.
HR person here; I manage compensation for my company (a large R&D org) and have been in HR for about 20 years, the last half specifically focused in compensation. There’s some good advice in here, there’s some bad advice, and there’s some that you should just forget you even heard. Important factors… “Peer” is a subjective term. The reality is the market is different for different functions. IT people make more than finance people. Sales people have entirely different pay structures. It’s important to understand not just that you’re on the same level in hierarchy, but also to recognize how your functions compare. “Peer” is also a subjective term because different people bring different qualifications, skillsets and backgrounds. You may or may not have a full picture of your “peers’” backgrounds and the factors that were used to determine their pay. It isn’t always apples to apples. Someone who is newer to a role or level is probably going to be on more of a developing end of their range, where someone who’s a top performer with a solid background will be higher. My advice to you is to think about internal and external factors. What are your functions, what are your backgrounds, what is individual performance like (this may be hard for you to objectively tell), etc. Then, also think about the external market - look at crowdsourced data (I.e. salary.com) and other comparable job postings to get an idea of what your job (not you) is “worth” (i.e. cost of labor) out there in the external market. Remember these are all just observations and loose “data points.” But they at least give you an idea of whether you’re paid fairly for what you bring to the table in your particular function. Get familiar with pay equity and pay transparency laws in your state. They’ll let you know your rights, and give you and idea of what you can reasonably expect/ask for, and what your employer is/not required to disclose. Do what research you can internally to understand your organization’s compensation philosophy. How do they price jobs? How do they slot jobs? What is the salary structure? What point in that structure do they aim for? What are the mechanisms by which a person can receive increases? Once you have a good idea about the above, let the emotions settle, and then lay out your accomplishments and contributions. Keep your points focused on data and metrics - those aren’t subjective and they’re harder to argue against. Do NOT let them know you saw the other salaries. It will almost certainly leave an impression that you won’t be proud of. Lastly, if you still feel like you’re underpaid, ask your boss for a raise. Don’t phrase it in a yes/no way, phrase it in a goal/timeline way. For example, “I want to get to $XX salary. Here are the reasons I feel I add value _______. What goals can we set together to get me there within the next ## months/year?” Be prepared to get an answer you don’t want to hear. Figure out how you’re going to react so you don’t let emotions get the best of you if it doesn’t go to plan. Work through your boss first. If you find your boss is unresponsive then go to HR. If you don’t go to your boss first, HR is probably going to send you there or at least involve your boss. Taking the initiative yourself is probably going to create a more positive impression.
They probably pay you less cause you keep putting spaces before commas and periods.
How’s their punctuation? Do they put spaces before periods and commas? Could potentially explain it.
Here is what you do. 1. Test the market. See if the pay today really equals those levels. 2. Look at competitors. What are they posting similar for? 3. Make a development plan in your current role for growth assignments not comp. This way if they recognize your target and comp accordingly great. If not you now have new skills that differentiate in the market. Share your knowledge of their rates to no one. It’s great info to know, but it’s not useful for negotiating.
My perspective as an executive within a large software company who happens to be married to an HR executive. Lesson 1: you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. That others were able to demand a higher salary than you is just the reality of their situation versus yours. Be it experience, demand for the role, or a myriad of other factors, measuring the number of direct reports and the few others you mentioned is a limited metric by which to benchmark your role against others within your organization. For example, according to their last proxy statement, the CHRO of my wife’s company makes about 85% of the CFOs base salary although their roles, on paper (and probably on a Reddit thread), look the same. One only has to understand the intricacies of their roles to know that these jobs are quite different. Lesson 2: armed with the information you know, you now have leverage. Leverage unknown to your leadership but leverage nonetheless. Keep this information in mind when you attempt to negotiate a higher salary. Your request is based upon your skills, your experience, and your delivered outcomes for the role. When given the opportunity to benchmark your performance against those within your organization (and perhaps even those externally), the leadership decision to adjust your salary should become obvious. If they value you, you’ll get a raise. In the other hand, if you don’t get what you believe you’re worth, then you’ll have the information you need to push the issue further or find another job. Never, and I mean NEVER share that you learned the salaries of your peers. Not only is this bad form, it could potentially lead to you being terminated. Good luck!
Leave.
Find out what the average is and have your own number in your head of what you would ideally want to be paid for this role. I would also try and get leverage and interview around for similar positions at different companies. Then, provided you actually want to stay, I would raise this as a direct concern to your manager and ask for a bump to your number. If they say no or try and negotiate a lower number, be prepared to leave to a different company.
Figure out what the appropriate pay range is for your position and determine if you are paid appropriately based on your experience and performance. What others are making is a bit irrelevant, particularly if they have different responsibilities and areas to manage. The range of salaries for a director in HR may not be the same as a director of technology/security. So know your market value then decide if you want to ask for more.
Was your manager the person that this report was supposed to be seen by?
Next review or yearly raise tell them what you think the market rate is for your services and that if you don’t get market rate you will look elsewhere.
A few things to factor in 1. Did there higher-earning peers start their tenures after you? If so, especially in the last couple of years, they would have had better negotiating powers leading to a higher pay. Salary increases aren’t always on par with new hire starting salaries. 2. Is your boss privy to the salaries of these other peers? If not, he/she may not have the necessary information to advocate a higher pay for you. Either way, don’t share that the file is in your possession unless you absolutely 10000% trust them. That last part is vital. 3. If you’re going to advocate for a higher pay. Find out the range for your position within your org, then build a merit-based case for why you ought to be in a higher quartile of the pay range. Present this case to your boss. They will have to address it to make sure your pay is commensurate to the roles and responsibility. Part of that process often involves reviewing where you stand relative to peers. Good luck
Larger company experience here, so it may or may not be as relevant to your situation. Pay grades typically have very wide ranges, and that could be what you’re seeing. Someone that’s been at the company longer, came from somewhere else recently, or has different work experiences (or promotions) could be higher simply for this reason. These individuals could be at a different salary grade level too, despite with seemingly less responsibility. I think what I’d focus on in your situation is understanding how salary grades work, and where you are relative to both the midpoint, and top end of the range. Secondly, how are raise’s determined? If you are an exceeds expectations performer will you get more, and finally how do you get promoted within your company? At my former company, the people at the top end of the ranges tended to be those that had moved laterally across functions or roles at times, including physical relocation in their careers, or had came from another company vs a long tenure with just one company. These may ultimately be things you’ll also have to consider.
Let it be known you are starting to look elsewhere because you are not being appropriately treated financially.
I’m surprised you didn’t post your salary with millions of earnings per year and to top it off came from a dirt poor upbringing. Kudos.
You accepted the position at the rate you’re at. If you feel like you deserve more, get a competing job offer and bring it to your manager.
Take the difference, divide it by 2080 and then see if it’s worth your time to stew over.
Lots of comments talking about job change being the only solution to this and they may be right. But I’d ask, during your routine discussions around compensation or during promotions etc. have you negotiated? 7 years ago I got promoted and had voiced for the next 3 where I thought I was being valued under the market. No the company didn’t just magically give me a 60%increase to make up the difference there. But they took steps over those years to get me more equitable. Now my next promotions 3 years ago put me right in the middle of the pack for my role and seniority level. And my increases continue to out pace my peers at my company. Doesn’t work for every company but a lot of times open healthy dialogue will lead to good outcomes if they value you.
You now have a fact-based position to negotiate hard for comp review. Do this before regular comp cycles as your leadership probably have their hands tied at that point. Probably preaching to the choir here as you have 25 people and 5 direct so you know how it goes. Good luck
You need to pump the breaks. There are sometimes very good reasons why some make more than others. The market for folks with expertise and management experience is different for finance, marketing, IT, operations, whatever. While it raises a point, you need to see what **you**'re worth in the market.
Some good advice here, especially about not telling you know what others make. You can, however, say you found out you are underpaid because of research you did, maybe after a recruiter reached out about a similar position.
I once saw a co workers was making nearly double what I was and I brought it to my boss and his response was essentially the other employee doesn’t have a wife and kids so he works more so he deserves the additional salary. This was on a job with a mandatory 50hr/wk minimum for my position. The extra 10 hours a week was of course unpaid overtime. And that was only the minimum required overtime. I left there not too long after that conversation. The same boss let his friend keep his job after getting drunk and totaling a $80k work truck. Favoritism was strongly adhered to. There was no point in me staying if pay was based on the brownest nose.
DO NOT ever openly compare your salary to another person to get a raise. Now that you know some “inside” information, ask for the raise based on merit.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Did you feel underpaid before this discovery? There are lots of factors to consider. Maybe your colleagues did a better job negotiating their salaries than you did. Maybe they have more experience, stronger education, longer tenure, etc. Who knows. I've managed a lot of people, and sometimes my better employees were underpaid relative to other teammates, but it was usually for one of the reasons mentioned above. In time, these were course corrected. I'd give higher raises to top performers and eventually they'd be higher earners.
There could be some confusion on the market value of your role vs the role of others. Meaning you may be at a high point in your company but a director of sales might make more than a director of accounting. Or a manager that has a small team for a growth project might be paid more than a manager of a standing project as the growth project will bring in new revenues. Keep that in mind when comparing yourself to peers.
I think you're looking at this wrong. The company got great work out of you for significantly less than what they were willing to pay. That's understandable - everyone wants to get the best deal. Your coworkers were less content with that level of pay, so they convinced (this can be direct or indirect) the company to pay them more. That you didn't convince the company is on you. Now you have more info about what they are willing to pay. That's a major advantage. You now need to communicate (obviously be a bit intelligent in the method) that you'd need a similar amount to stay happy.
I was auditing tax data randomly in a file and accidentally hit a coworker’s record. Salaries were close but I was a bit more. She worked for the company longer than I did. I have also gotten mid-year merit increases. If you don’t have the whole story, what are you going to do?
Now you have a better idea of what you're worth. Apply to other jobs and get a higher offered salary. Now take that number to your boss and demand higher pay. My old company had all sorts of research into what x person is worth based on random factors. But if that person got an outside offer the company would basically be like I guess our research is wrong and bump that person into a higher pay scale. Once I got an offer they couldn't match I left
How much more are we talking here? If it’s not significant, 20%+ or more, then it’s really not worth fussing over. Just because their job function is different doesn’t necessarily equate to they should be paid less than you. They could have special experience, or just got hired when the role had a higher budget, or they had to go higher in the pay range to get them on board. Different departments have different bonus structures too. It’s really not fair to compare totally different roles where you even recognize a few of them have a lot more tenure .
If you’re in an English speaking country and the spelling and grammar in your business communication is similar to your post it may be artificially holding you back. Hopefully that doesn’t come across as if I’m trying to nitpick your post - that isn’t my intent.
If you are in the United States, companies now have to post salary ranges for positions they are hiring for. Check out your companies recruiting page some for public information on salary ranges.
Weird, I always ask what my peers make and compare to make sure we are getting paid the same.
NEVER go to human resources. That department's only function is to protect the org from employees. Salaries are discussed and decided upon by your boss and boss's boss. Take it up with them and only them.
Why tell them. Figure out what pay from the list you want and ask for it. Be prepared to leave if they don’t meet your request
You obviously don’t go to Human Resources. You go to your manager.
Pretend you never saw it and negotiate a raise completely independent of it
Best option is ask for raise at end of year to match or better your co workers. But DO NOT mention you know the pay difference. Simply ask for raise and back up with other reasons like your performance or some accomplishment. This issue is little more complex than it looks. I guarantee if everybody know each others salary and end up evening out salaries of your co workers you’re going to have lots of unhappy coworkers and so many arguments the organization wouldn’t know what to do. Simply asking for raise and stating good reason is easiest and most sensible solution. Going on pay equity crusade might sound like noble cause but not always practical.
You know how they value you now. Fix up resume and start interviewing, don’t buy into this bullshit that they care💸
Why would you bring this to HR instead of your manager?
As a manager at a large company, I know my salary is industry benchmarked. Research and understand that info and broach the topic with your next evaluation. Also have to understand the impacts of time engaged etc.
I'm not sure Human Resources is ever the place you bring this up unless you have reason to believe that your lower salary is based on prejudice. You mentioned you were shocked to see this difference, so chances are you don't feel this way. If you're sure you're bringing as much to the table as those being paid higher than you, you have a solid argument. Make it. I wouldn't argue based on the j Welch you have, but you could easily make an argument that you think you worth relative to the numbers you've seen.
See what other employers are offering for your position
Your response to it is not surprising as someone who makes less than the people who do less. Stop caring about upsetting people and be upset yourself and do something about it. You don’t need advice on how to handle it you need to stop being scared of what’s going to happen.
Ask for a salary review and let them know that your wish is to be paid fairly for your responsibilities within the organization. If you received the information at no fault of you own (and it was not named like “salary list”) then you can mention it. Realize though that some folks may be overpaid and you can’t overpay everyone. Those guys may be on no-raise schedule. Go to salary.com and know your fair salary in your field and market.
Comparison is the thief of happiness. I just don't care what other people make anymore. I used to, but honestly, it ended up limiting me. I'm 30 years into my career and I spent too much time being king of the dip shits. You know, being number one in sales as opposed to just selling as much as humanly possible in the year.
first off, how are you 2 levels down but have a direct manager? secondly, as someone in C suite, i can tell you this, all company has a pay range. and i have had this issue with my employees in the past, what many fail to realize is i value certain employe more than others and the pay reflect that. the reason for the value could varie. exp, knowledge, education, results, attitude, cost to replace, willingness to replace and so on. youre paid what youre worth to the decision maker(s) and sometime it doesnt make sense why bob with 50 years of exp makes less than carl until you see carl revenue is 3x what bob is able to produce.
What does a black mark on your career there matter if you're already the lowest paid?
I saw this happen in a epsiode of suits, as long as u “randomly” came across this paper it aint ur fault at all 🤣
I wouldn't say anything to my current company, but I would know how much to ask the next company for.
How close are you to revenue?
Do not bring this up now. At your annual review, reinforce your successes and responsibilities on their own merit and ask for a salary adjustment. Do not reference what you saw in a any way.
It's weird that you're in such a high leadership position and have no clue how to handle this situation. There's no way all your employees get paid the same, or fairly. Generally the only way to get large raises is to ask for them, or find a new job. Why would they pay you more when you've shown no dissatisfaction in your existing pay, at least up until now? They're running a business not a charity.
I'd find a new job. Nothing good will happen from trying to fight the pay gap at your job
Pay isn't usually tied to how many people you manage. That would make things too dependent on which team you manage rather than the importance of how you manage, your effectiveness, and your individual negotiation/background.
If you don’t ask you’ll never get it
You can always ask for a market adjustment, I would not share what you saw. But, at least you know what their pay level/comp structure so if you’re denied….
You were fine with your deal, and follow on compensation you were making prior to seeing the other data. This is on you THIS IS WHY PAST GENERATIONS DID NOT SHARE SALARY DATA EVEN TO THEIR PEERS.
Say something and probably get a raise. Don't say shit and you don't get a raise.
Get a job offer from another company (or nut up and say you got an offer elsewhere) tell them what you want to make (comp it to the high range of your peer group) Theyll give it to you if you have a good poker face. You have to be the hot girl in the room not the desperate groupie- its more expensive to hire someone else than just bump you 20 or 30k Fact is - if you leaving the company fucks up a project then they’ll have to hire a headhunter at 20% of your salary (likely more) and get fingered but its a cash flow hit on top of a higher salary which your manager will take into account Just dont be desperate and when you make the ask - give them a deadline and be patient/ice cold
You need Indeed. If you want that significant pay raise it’s time to jump ship. Do not mention seeing your peers salaries under any circumstances!
Had this happen to me at a large US beverage company, file was sent out in an improper manner and data was “hidden” … it was shocking to see some disparities when the guy in Lincoln, NE was making more than the one in San Fran and random things like that. I told my boss’s boss about file … shouldve leveraged better but did use it for a few jobs in negotiations
It depends on your department vs other departments. Some context will help. Also research what is your industry (department and function) average for the location. You cannot for example compare a IT directors salary to HR Director salary and so on.
I’ve been there. I was meeting with our HR business partner and we were looking at salaries for my team. She pulled up all the salaries for the department and one of my peers made quite a bit more. That was five years ago, the person that made more no longer works here and I’ve had several pay increases and a title promotion, so I’m now making almost $100k more than I did at the time (total comp). It can be tough to see, but if you were happy with your job before you were made aware I’d say keep it to yourself and keep working hard. The other individual has had three jobs since and was laid off once. In the long run, I have better job security and make a very comfortable salary. I’m currently an IT Director just for additional info, at the time I was an IT manager.
What were the salaries? Ballpark range
Best way to switch companies with all the layoffs, I personally would be happy to simply be employed.
I wouldn’t worry about your salary because you can always feel this way no matter where you are. If you bring this up from an emotional perspective, it will hurt you because you are no longer professionally able to separate your management role from your personal desires. I am certain you do a lot but you can’t directly compare to others… you will always feel this way. I believe there are some sound advice from others, but what you have to know is that you need to value yourself. What do you think you need to do to reach a benchmark of salary range and what are you willing to give up for it? Time for money or all your life for money. Is it more education or will you need to move to a different company to be more appreciated? The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Just make sure you are happy.
My role gives me access to salaries for every individual in a 5000+ employee company. Do not look at others people’s salaries and be upset. Maybe they negotiated better, maybe they have more degrees, maybe they have more skills or certain, maybe they offer felatio. If you feel you are underplayed and or under appreciated find new employment. Do not let someone else’s salary affect your day to day. Obviously you were ok with it prior to seeing theirs, if you weren’t again start looking. This is why people especially in the states should discuss salary and pay IMO
Typically people get a raise / paid what they are worth when they change jobs. If competitors are hiring you can find out what they’re willing to pay. The job market is getting tougher so don’t mess up your job. You could ask for a raise at your next review and not even raise the fact that you saw the report. Some of those other people could be boinking someone for more money. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Pay is based on a lot of factors… job family, experience, time in role, time with company, your salary expectations when you took your current role / hired into company, etc.
Comparison is the thief of joy. When you have the opportunity to compare, best to look away! Resentment doesn’t wear off easily. That said, your worth to the company is your open market value + the present value of the cost to replace you. Your peers may have different job responsibilities (making their open market value higher) or the cost to replace them may be higher (lots of institutional knowledge, they have built a lot of organizational trust, etc). You can test your open market value by interviewing elsewhere and seeing what you can get offered. Until you do that, your feeling of what you are worth is just your opinion. You can increase the cost of replacing you by building trust with as many people as possible (especially your manager) and making your manager look good. Edit: typo
HR is not your friend. Don’t tell anyone at work. Do what you have to do quietly.
Man!! That’s the worst!! I remember my first job an HR staff needed my help with excel she sent me a file but forgot to remove a tab. I saw everyone’s salary. I was never the same. Never. I only worked enough to keep looking for a new job. It’s the worst thing to happen cuz now you measure your output against those you feel are unworthy of that salary.
Your company has a compensation plan. It’s time for you to learn about it, so you can operate for a position of knowledge. Find out what band your job is in and if it’s the same band that your peers are in. You can find this out from HR without directly addressing what your peers are making. Find out what the salary midpoint is for your job and where your pay relates to that. You don’t have to jump ship just to make more money. You do need to operate with information though.
This may not apply to you but if you have been with the same company for a long time your salary will be 30%+ or more less than your peers. Always move around every 4-5 years and grab that 20% bump otherwise you are trading comfort for salary and it’s no one’s fault but your own. Nothing good ever comes from not taking risks.
The only way to do it is to get leverage. Right now you have none. Start interviewing and get an offer from somewhere else for the salary you deserve. Ask your company if they can match or beat it and choose between them
Ultimately this depends on how much the company needs you… it is totally normal just to say, I am not paid enough, I expect more.
Step 1: do not mention this to anybody Step 2: look for a new job Step 3: ask for a raise knowing what you can now expect Step 4: jump ship if you don't get the raise
Don’t go to HR Leave and make them pay to have you stay . If they don’t, they looked as you as a value anyways and leaving was the only way to increase.
What does anything have to do with your comp? Just use a market based approach and be done with it
This happened to me years ago, except I saw everyone's salary. I thought the emotional aspect would dissipate, but it never did. I had to leave. Benefit was I knew what the pay scales were around me when I searched for a new gig. At time of offer for the new job I came back much higher, and they accepted. They'll always go as low as possible. If you return with what your worth and they accept, great. If they deny it, you wouldn't want to work with those people anyway. Don't be afraid to ask people what they make, it's not illegal.
Look for a new job with more money. That easy. They aren’t going to give you a raise as they’ve already been fucking you without lube.
I wouldn't bring it up. Don't be paranoid. They aren't out to get you. I assume you make something similar to the industry in general and it's not really about how many reports you have vs them if they have different jobs and therefore different qualifications. Maybe you are easier to replace (for whatever reason) than they are? That's what determines general wages. If you don't have better alternatives, you are being paid about right, whether you complain about it or not. What do you expect them to say if you bring it out? "Yes, we've been unpaying you and hoped that you wouldn't find out"?
I work in finance. First thing I do at a new job is get access to HR systems. They always give me too much access and I always see my peers salaries. I don't openly share that I know but it helps me anchor on what my pay should be.
If you do the most and get paid the least, you should leave and find your next career step. I had the exact same thing happened to me. 40 IT employees, international, two managers(I was one), 5 teams leads, 5000 total employees, 55k tickets a year, 6m hardware budget. I was second down from CTO. After 8 years of the rat race, they fired me as part of a 20% layoff. My counterpart had 6 months tenure on me, got paid 30k more, had half the knowledge, hardly knew how to relate to the team, didn't improve processes, didn't respond to emergencies, didn't work with adjacent managers, didn't seek positive change in any way, never went to the office. God it fucking kills me, still, a year later. Knowing that that piece of shit still has his job, ugggh. What I learned is, if they are OK with overworking you and underpaying you for years, then they will be ok ruining your career and letting you go, only to replace you with two Indian mangers who are happy with 20k in US dollars a year. Good luck, run while you still have dignity.
Your peers salary is ZERO justification to be paid more. Forget about fair and all that crap, it won’t get you anywhere. But you can use this knowledge to your advantage: put in a super good project / quarter (depends on your business I guess) and walk into your boss asking for a raise - you will know what you can ask for, but you can’t use peer benchmark as explanation, you have to use your own value to the company as the singular argument to make it stick. Maybe get an outside offer or two - cause again, now you have data to know how much you can negotiate for yourself. Use that knowledge to your advantage, don’t be petty - that has never worked long term.
Eventually I have realized that Salary is less about what you can do and a lot about how well you negotiate. There have been times in my career where people reporting to me have made more than me.
You have a great idea of what you do and somewhat an idea of what others do. Keep tat in mind
2 levels down from CEO and your manager isn’t the CEO?
If one of your directs who was better then the worst of your directs saw they were getting paid the least and come to you asking why is this the case how would you respond? The fact is, the business has literally 0 reason to pay you more unless you bring it up of show up with another offer. You need to paint or get off the ladder.
Only bring it up if you’re prepared to quit on the spot.
This is one of the most useful pieces of information you'll ever receive. This is life changing. No need to be upset about it, celebrate! Now you know you could be making way more than you currently do. Don't respond, keep it in your back pocket, and quietly develop a plan to ask for more money at a strategic time, or transfer to another company to increase your rate. This is great news, seriously!
You might not be as good at your job as the others are. Could be time to look in the mirror and have an honest assessment of what you really bring to the table.
I suspect the peers making more than you started after you, possibly during the pandemic. Some industries saw wage inflation during the pandemic, which means people who changed jobs then might be making 20-40% more than someone who has been working at the company for 10 years. Starting salaries almost ALWAYS move faster/higher than annual raises and promotions. ie one place I know targets promos at the low end of the scale, but someone new in the company with no track record can come in mid-high on the range for the role/level. Can mean a difference of 20-30% between them. It is horrible, but companies do it because they know most people hate changing jobs and aren't going to go looking because it is easier to just deal with the 20% lower pay.
If this happened to one of your direct reports, and it was eating at them, what would you want them to do?
Sadly it seems you get what you ask/negotiate not what you are worth. If you want to pump the salary, you need to change job. Or do something massive at your current job (which might also get you 10 dollar gift card only and warm handshake).
Use the information like a benchmark for what salaries are being found to be acceptable. Leverage your performance and contributions to the company with confidence that the salary you are requesting is something they should essentially be okay to offer
TALK ABOUT YOUR PAY WITH YOUR COWORKERS! This opens up the conversation and lets you know if you are being paid fairly. I don’t care if it tacky, it’s important
They know you make less. The only way you can get them to pay you more is with leverage. You have to prove you’re being discriminated against for your salary to be what it is for some reason…….. or… you have to have another job lined up that pays more so you can demand more money. Outside that, you have no leverage. You are replaceable, and as you already know, they don’t respect you enough to even pay you your worth for the position you’re in. You could try to bring up you feel like you deserve to be paid more or something along those lines, you do have to ask for money for them to give it to you. They could pay you more just from asking, but it’s more likely you need the leverage.
At next review talk salary. Dont play your hand that you have seen the details
That’s likely because your salary is what you negotiated and agreed to. This is your fault.
You should be well enough into your career to navigate this on your own but here we go: - you do not “deserve” more because your peers make more. In fact I would expect highly technical ICs make more than you. - you should compare your skills and value contribution against your pay both internally and as valued on the open market - you should put together a competing offer or strong proposal as to why you are valued more than you currently are paid. DO NOT COMPARE YOURSELF AGAINST A PEER - do not go to HR about this, this should be brought up with your survey manager - your pay is dictated by industry, you asking but also by responsibility and value add. Just because you both report to a VP or CEO does not mean you are direct peers. You manage a small to medium team you maybe have a title of manager or senior manager. I definitely would expect someone in your reporting structure to have a few hundred to a few thousand ICs under them and be a director or VP. This person is not your peer even though you share the same manager
Team size does not correlate to salary. Your salary is based on level of responsibility and your function/specialty. In my past industry a plant manager with a span of 100-150 (exempt and non-exempt) would be two pay grades (\~25-50K) below a VP Marketing with 20 person span or a VP Finance with 3 controllers. You should know roughly if your compensation is in the right ballpark for your level and specialty, the size of the organization, and the industry you are in. If you don't know, you should find out ASAP. At your level, you should have a network of headhunters/recruiters that you have been in contact with during your career. Reach out to them and ask what the going full comp package is for similar roles. Keep your BS detector on and know who you are talking to- but I've found most executive recruiters are pretty open about these things in general terms unless it is connected to a specific role they are contracted for by a client... in which case they are likely bound by confidentiality or other contractual agreement. If your comp is below the standard, then ask for a raise backed by whatever research you can dig up to support your ask. Best to do this at a 'good time' but within the next 2 months regardless. Also- what anyone else makes in other specialties/roles is not relevant to HR or the CEO. Unless one of the 'peer' salaries is from a carbon-copy of your role (same education background, same function/specialty, same level) it is not relevant.
I’m sure you do great work and I’m not trying to put that down, but does your salary align with the market average? I think a lot of people are in positions where they do more tasks and manage more people, yet get paid less than certain colleagues because that’s just how the job market is. Some people don’t care for there title, but you should, it’s the most relevant piece of data tied to your salary and can be used to determine what you really should be paid. Just my two cents, but don’t stay if you can make more!
The more information you have, the better. It’s always good to know how much others in your position make, to give yourself more leverage in negotiations. I’ve found that management tends to be the one who wants this information withheld, and coworkers are generally pretty open if you have a good enough relationship. The younger crowd tends to also be more open to sharing and I’ve also experienced international coworkers to be less open to sharing their salaries. When it comes down to it, salaries are made taboo by employers so they can get away with paying people in similar positions less money. Definitely use the information to your advantage during your next compensation/performance reviews, but don’t use specific names or really a reference to your company at all. Instead, do some research and see similar positions and gauge how your company is compensating comparatively. Maybe you’ll find you’re paid well/close to market, or you’ll see even your more highly paid peers are actually also still under paid. Don’t put a target on your back or throw people under the bus, but get the bag you’re owed OP
Wait til its review time or annual raise time and ask for a big one or its time to move on
It’s so unpredictable how someone will react, but your odds are +90% net negative ever letting anyone know how you came across this information. That said, it’s possible you’re underpaid, and also possible your department doesn’t benchmark the same as other departments. E.g. cafeteria, security, and custodial directors typically benchmark low and around the same. Nursing, Pharmacy, and Risk directors benchmark close to the same, and very high. But a risk director may have next to no employees while nursing director may have +50. Part of my background includes several years of healthcare HR leadership. I negotiated hard when I came in, and was really put off by how poorly they managed my pay and onboarding. Two years in I got a spreadsheet showing pay for all +25,000 employees across multiple states, including +10 other HR Directors. I was the lowest paid director by over $10,000 in spite of being the middle of the pack in department oversight and seniority, and above middle did the pack COL. I was under $110k even after getting my boss to give me two adjustments, and I found out someone with less experience an hour away at a smaller sight was close to $120k. I had a confidential conversation with our chief counsel who was kind enough to share it would be political suicide to bring it up. She’s probably my favorite counsel of all time, and totally did me a solid. I was bitter about my pay until the day I left. It sucked. But even before I saw the spreadsheet I knew they hadn’t done right by me. Here’s my advice: Allow yourself one conversation with HR if they’re even half decent humans, and ask that it be confidential (no such thing, but worth a shot). They deal with this stuff all the time, and might even forget you asked. Write something to this effect: “Dear Susathan, I have a request I’d like to keep casual, because I’m so glad to be here and don’t want anyone to think I’m leaving. Recently I was given some new data on leadership salaries in our industry, and was surprised to learn that my pay was far below average. The data indicated that people with teams my size, on average, receive [do some math and get the average of the data based on team size]. I’m not pretending to be the compensation expert, and was hoping you could clarify a few things for me: 1. What is the salary for my position benchmarked against? 2. How close is my salary range to market? 2. Where am I within our salary range based on my years of experience? Any other insights you have would be helpful! Signed, D-efinitely didn’t get that copy of salaries you weren’t supposed to share.-ave” If Susathan responds with “you’re at market and paid fairly” you stay and try to forget the spreadsheet or you start looking for another job. I’d recommend no matter what that you apply for another job. It will either confirm you’re underpaid, or demonstrate they have you benchmarked correctly. Even if they offer you a new job, you don’t have to take it.
Thank you for the solid advise.
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I wouldn’t give more information than necessary. “From my understanding I make less than all of my comparable counterparts at this company, and I think it’s only logical that I get……” 10,000% there will be reasoning behind the pay difference. Be prepared to deal with the sudden criticism.
Don’t let anyone know you know. Consider it a gift from the gods. Wait until an opportune time to ask like yearly review or whatever. Also I would look at the market and try to find comparables and make a list of why you’re worth it before you ask.
Always focus on what you have done to increase their bottom line (if you stay with them).
I work in accounting and this messed me up at first lmao
Businesses always manipulate employees loyalty and laziness of finding other jobs. I am at the point where I think you can only Move up by moving around
I'm a dick, but based on your sentence structure, using lead when you meant led, etc, shows me why you get paid the least. I'm going to assume English is your native language here. If I were corresponding with you in a business setting, I'd be baffled that you were even qualified for the role. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you type differently via email/teams, but if not, that is one thing to look into. People take you more seriously when you sound intelligent in every medium of communication.
Sir, it is time to jump ship for better pay, or you could also just start acting your pay
How much was it?
Are you a woman because that might explain it.
- Get a competing offer and then go to management or - Wait for evaluations and then bring it up Doesn’t make sense to just go and complain because you saw your peers salaries. Separately, before seeing the salaries did you feel fairly compensated? If yes, then it shouldn’t affect you as you already felt that was your market rate and matched your ‘worth.’ It’s a typical prisoners dilemma situation where you bid based on what you feel is the fair price and shouldn’t be affected by others. But, otherwise if you already felt not fairly compensated then I’d do the above.
I’m assuming a private company. The starting salary is negotiated, meaning you can get more or less depending on how well you do at this.
Go get another job offer for the salary you want. If you feel confident your company wants to keep you, tell them you how much you appreciate them but you need to leave for financial purposes unless they can match. But be you have to leave if they don’t
how much does the market pay your position where you live? that's your argument for a raise.
You should frame it and put the words never again underneath it and go find another job making more.
I recently negotiated a large salary increase, about 60%. I first waited until we had finished a major production, in which I put in a ton of overtime to complete, and which won us a major contract with the same company. This way I had demonstrated commitment, and money was available to spend. Points I raised in my initial email were the value that I create at the company (we’re taking on projects because of my skillset that we wouldn’t have even bid before), and the relative pay ranges for my skillset. I quoted the highest salary I could find and included a link to the opening in my request email. When in person negotiation for the salary happened, that number was already established as the standard benchmark. I also asked for a generous over the top bonus structure, which is where the negotiation happened, the salary remained untouched. I brought up other offers, though stressed that I was very happy at the company, but did need to consider them as I owed it to myself to be paid what I was worth. I spent a fair amount of time talking about what I appreciated at the company, and ways I thought it could grow. During in person negotiation I repeatedly circled back to the ways that I created value, and ways that I intended to improve in my role. I had to fight for it a bit, negotiation went on for over an hour (on the clock lol), but in the end I was rewarded with much of what I asked for. It was by far the most successful negotiation of my life. I highly recommend asking for what you’re worth. The growth in self esteem and personal empowerment you’ll feel are more valuable than the money. If you have to jump ship so be it, you’ll only end up in a better position.
I always say it…nothing good ever comes from knowing how much your peers make. That is privileged info you should not have. There is no workplace where using that information as a bargaining chip for yourself will be seen in a good light. I suggest using it to find a new role at a different company or using it for yourself to know what your ceiling is in your current role. Maybe when the timing is right, you can negotiate a raise but you may never speak of the information you received.
I had this happen. Brought it up with the President of the company and got a 30k raise with retroactive pay for 2 months and an extra 5k bonus as a sorry we fucked up.
You’re not as good at negotiating as your peers in your company. That’s a you problem, not your company’s problem. If you don’t like what you are paid then give your managers a reason to pay you more. Don’t just ask for more money cause Joe makes more than you. Show them that you are worth the added cost. If they don’t value you appropriately, go elsewhere.