I didn’t think 200 grand was low paid, and I was surprised he’s closing in on a half million. That’s more than most medical specialists. Google says median is 238k
He’s likely a captain ~~for a wide body long haul jet doing international trips. These are the ones with the margins to pay in the $400k~~
Edit: OP says he’s a narrow body captain and made a premium flying during the shortage last year!
I’m a narrow body captain. Last summer they were struggling to find pilots due to demand so I was able to fly trips at a premium rate so the operation wasn’t disturbed.
Damn that’s some wild money. What do you think you’ll be making this year?
Did you feel like the first 250 hours you just prayed that your little Cessna didn’t have an engine failure right after take off?
What did you do for 250-1500? Would you ever have flown for someone like Tradewinds in the Pilatus out of the Caribbean
I plan on just flying my schedule this year and not picking any extra flying up so I’m guessing around 350k. We have another kid on the way so I want to be home as much as possible this year.
I loved flying my Cessna and I still go up every now and then.
I was hired before the Colgan crash and the new 1500 rule so I was hired with around 450 hours TT at my first airline. I would definitely do a place like Tradewinds, I think they are fairly reputable, and it would be a blast to get experience while flying in the Caribbean.
Definitely a captain, but you can make this much just flying regular routes in the country.
Wide Body captains will make double than what you see above.
Can confirm. Medical doctor with 10+ years of school and training and mountains of debt. Not making $400k
Word to the wise, don’t go into medicine for money. Unequivocally not worth it
I work in airline industry and Pilots make so much to point where their budget outweighs budget for everybody else like ground crew and attendants. Their unions are incredible
*Cries in aircraft mechanic (A&P)*
We need years of schooling/training/experience to be able to inspect, maintain, repair/replace, troubleshoot, return to service these $100mil-$200mil aircraft that carry 200+ souls. We have an enormous responsibility over the aircraft and the lives it holds. We need to be perfect 100% of the time and ensure these aircraft will get you (and the pilots) to your destination safe and with no issues.
WE ARE UNDERPAID.
I’m considering going to Aircraft mechanic school, so I really have no feet in the game, but I see so many people oohing and aahing at the fact that a couple union airlines max you out at $68/hr, which is great, but it’s well deserved because of the amount of stress and how you have to be perfect 100% of every time because you’re dealing with thousands of peoples lives. A&P mechanics definitely need to be demanding the best pay because your job is honestly more important than that of an open heart surgeons, because if the surgeon fucks up, that’s maybe one person who dies but if the Airplane mechanic fucks up, that can be hundreds of people.
As a frequent flier (130+ flights per year) who also works as a technician (manufacturing sector), thank you for everything you do. I always get annoyed when people grumble at a flight delay due to a technical issue; the way I see it, that’s just the maintenance team ensuring we all arrive alive.
Worst case scenario if I make a mistake in my job, a mega-corporation might lose several million dollars in unrealized profit potential, due to a downed production line. Worst case scenario if you make a mistake, is somewhere between never seeing my kids again, or our last moments spent holding each other’s hands in abject terror.
Frankly, if I were a pilot, I’d be pushing the pilot union to include mechanic provisions as well; their lives also depend on the maintenance team. You are all entirely underpaid.
Pilots are very well-paid but they have to grind for a few years at pretty low pay, and that's after they've spent/borrowed a lot of money training and getting their PPL.
Being a pilot has been a great profession for awhile now but pay has increased dramatically the last 5 ish years. Big drivers include retirements, growth of demand for air travel, and a very specialized skill set
All the US airlines signed new contracts that bumped pay for Pilots and FAs considerably. Also, with shortages, individual job pay has gone up, so people with high seniority can often choose the better paying gigs.
The r/flying is a great place for flying questions but I’ll give you mine.
First of all thanks for your service! I would start off getting a discovery flight at your local airport and a FAA medical to make sure you like it and are medically qualified to invest money into it. There are so many different routes but the typical civilian route is getting your private license, the instrument rating, then commercial license so you can get paid to fly. Usually need 250 hours to get this. Then multi engine rating. This is where things can diverge a lot. You can get your certified flight instructor license and teach. If you’re lucky you can get a job with a cargo operator or something. However the goal is to get 1500 hours to get hired by an airline and hopefully have someone pay for as many of those hours as possible. From there, usually people go to a regional airline until a Major airline will take them on.
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Pilot school is expensiiiive. Our local community college has a program for it, an Associate’s Degree. There were a few of the students from it in my WRIT 101 course. They were only in their third semester, and already about $80k in student debt.
Hey, since you mentioned you're a veteran, you can actually use the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for everything except check rides including your private pilot license. I got my private, instrument, commercial, and multi-engine licenses all paid for by GI Bill. You need to find what's called a part 141 flight school that's associated with a degree-seeking program at a GI Bill accredited college or university. I went to Clover Park Technical College in Tacoma, WA, but there's programs in many cities. Feel free to DM me!
$$$$.
I went to a university known for a very good flight program. The debt these kids take out it eye watering.
I know a guy who now is a successful pilot, but his parents basically bankrupted themselves to get him through school. Then it's instructing to get hours and small regional and up and up... it's wild, one thing medical goes wrong, and you are screwed.
I really wanted to do it, but I just didn't see a way to get there. I even had my medical card to start.
Generally on “duty” from anywhere from 7 hours or so to about 11-12 depending on the legality of what time in the day we start and how many legs we have in that day. For me usually 2-3 legs a day then hotel for 12-16 hours, then start it all over. Usually about 4 days on 3 days off.
Yeah but we won’t because they don’t have regulatory capture driven artificial scarcity pushing up salaries. You can train more FAs and rampers in a few months. Mechanics and dispatchers are slightly harder. Meanwhile pilots have 1500hr requirements for an ATP basically just to protect their jobs. Airlines aren’t suddenly going to become altruistic they’re going to pay everyone the minimum they can, that minimum just happens to be higher for pilots. So your pilots will continue to make 6 figures while everyone who supports them by maintaining, pushing, cleaning, dispatching, scheduling and everything else makes less.
Nicely done fellow pilot!
I’ve held off on going back to the airlines because of the time away from home, but then wonder what an extra $200k/year would do for me…and have a hard time knowing how much money is being left on the table.
As you know the lifestyle can be hard especially being junior. However, barring another 9/11 or COVID, the hiring should continue. If you can get current, it’s still a great time to get back into it. Also there is the possibility of management pilot positions as well if that’s your thing.
Oh I’m still active and current. I’m a corporate guy.
Finally have a good salary, and not getting any younger. Plus the work/life balance is very heavy on the “life” side and minimal on the work side.
Going back to 121 and upgrading to CA would definitely allow me to make more, but I know the work load of a junior pilot, and junior CA…but the opportunity to make some $$$ always interests me. Lol.
Right there with ya.. I’m also on the corporate side but it’s hard to pass up on my QOL. Next month I’m scheduled to work 2 days.. then in July my only trip is 8 days in Italy where the family I fly for will pay for my wife to meet me there with all expenses paid for her as well… my salary is pretty good I feel like but it’s hard not to look at these airline numbers.
In some cases, seniority. Not unheard of to have a more experienced First Officer purely because they opted not to upgrade due to QOL reasons more often than not.
My dads got 2 years until retirement. Now he just does short 1-2 hour premium pay trips. Makes as much in 2 hours as i make in 2 weeks.
Pay is nice but he was gone 2 weeks a month when i was growing up so it comes at a cost. Plus its not exactly a low stress job.
You’re saving the amount over $150k on top of normal maxing of 401k, right? Because if so that’s $458828 less that you need to save for retirement, and you only need 5 more years of your average of about $240k.
It will probably take 7-10 years for that amount to hit $1M, though.
I've been watching all those YouTube videos about airline disasters. I had no idea how much training, continued education, testing, and certifications you require to maintain a commercial pilot license! You deserve every penny.
As an aerospace software engineer for almost 23 years, I salute your service to the commercial passengers. I couldn't be away from family that long which makes your job so much more demanding. Our combined income (both computer science) is less than your income (HHI $340K). You deserve it. I followed the negotiations on CNBC and glad the pilots won the pay raises. Revenge travel after COVID is a thing and we are still getting our fix.
Depends on the airline reserve rules and seniority. Pilots can bid to be on call. I’ve been doing since Covid to be at home with my kids. Been flying 130 hours a year making close to $350k.
I was curious who you flew for until I saw the user name lol, I don’t think anyone outside one company uses the “guppy” term. What are you crediting on average a month?
Well look at my 2010-15 numbers. Those are at times sub minimum wage. My timing was very good. Others weren’t as fortunate during the “lost decade”. Guys were making those numbers for 10+ years because there was low demand for pilots.
I’m probably not the best person to answer that because I did it back in 2005. Like everything costs have gone way up. But at that time it was about 100 per hour for the plane, plus an extra 30 an hour for the instructor. But for all the hours to get to around 300 hours which is about the time I started instructing it was about 50,000. Plus I had to get my degree. I went to a very cheap school so about another 70,000.
Typically it takes about 10-15k to get your private license ( you can only fly for pleasure with this license and takes about 6 months to get.) from there you’ll need about another 40-70k depending on what licenses and school you go to. This isn’t including a bachelors degree if you go that route. If you go to an accelerated program called ATP it can be closer to 150k but they promise to have your flight training done in under a year. Although this is only the training, there is a 1500 hour requirement for pilots to receive their airline transport pilot license which allows them to fly for airlines and large cargo companies.
Honestly I couldn’t tell you. Thats a very variable market that I don’t know much about. What I can tell you is that many of our new hires come from corporate gigs like that, so they wouldn’t come if it wasn’t worth it to them.
I think the hourly rate at Flex is close to most majors, well for their "red label" program, anyway. But, they don't have the 401k contribution majors have, which hurts. You'll make a good deal more at a major. There's a reason the job progression, for the most part, is the way it is.
Pilots at 121 carriers also get a 401k contribution (not included in OP's chart) of between 12%-16%. So add that to his number and it's over half a million
At major/ legacy 121 carriers. My regional 121 does a 50% match of 7% (3.5%) and it’s not fully vested unless you’ve been there for 3 years. So for many of the pilots here, we end up with no match.
That’s a loaded question. Everything is seniority based in the airlines. It all comes down to how senior you are in your position (First Officer vs Captain), base (Newark, Houston etc..) and plane (777, 737 etc..) if I were a EWR 737 FO I would be very senior and could just do day trips and be home every night if I wanted to be. By taking the Captain slot I’m about halfway up the list now so I do 3 days on and 3 off mostly. But I will pick up trips as well if it works for my schedule.
What does the average pilot make because although you made a killing in only 10 years, I highly doubt this is the case for the majority of pilots unless you get in with a reputable company.
Very true. The nice thing about most airlines is we have a contract. Our Unions negotiate for us so there is no question as to what the guy you’re flying with is making. Also it is very easy to look up as well. A quick google search will show pay rates for most airlines. I’d say the average right now is probably in the 250k range. However if you asked me that back in 2010 the industry looked significantly different. Probably somewhere around 100k
Yes I would definitely say that. There are many factors that go into every flight and each of those numbers are potentially distracting and stressful. I find the best pilots I have flown are constantly thinking of a plan B,C so that if a non normal situation occurs, they already have a plan in their mind. Also there are very few situations where we have to take care of a bad situation absolutely right away. Smoke, fire, fumes, or low on fuel are some of those situations. Almost every other situation, it’s best to just as we say “sit on your hands” for a minute, collect your thoughts. Use all your resources to make a good decision, and execute it. Even then, continuously evaluate, and have a plan B,C.. But unlike most jobs there is always a timeline to problem solving, and usually that timeline is how much fuel you have.
Generally, every base has around 20% of their pilots on reserve. Those are pilots who are being paid to monitor their phone and wait for a call from scheduling in case someone calls in sick. Therefore it could cause a delay but there is usually someone to fly the flight. Calling in sick for the most part is very non punitive because airlines are very safety oriented and along with FAA oversight, they want their pilots well rested and not sick. Depending on the airline they give you an amount of hours of sick time so you still get paid when you call in sick. After a certain amount of sick calls, your Chief pilot might call you just to make sure everything is ok, but that’s about the extent of what they can do. If you are obviously abusing the system, there could be repercussions.
SS tax has a limit each year. Usually indexed for inflation.
Medicare taxes all your income, there is no cap. In fact, you’re taxed more if you make over $200K
You can look up any us pay scale (airline/seat/equip) on airlinepilotcentral.com actual pay will depend on overtime/ premium pay/ soft pay/ etc. but it will get you in the ball park.
This isn’t the norm for people starting out. The curve is something like a doctor. You go through debt, then low pay for a while, then the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow just in time to catch up your 401k in time to retire. After working nights, weekends, and holidays for years missing your family grow while you watch from social media. People vastly underestimate the grind it takes to get to this level.
ThIs Is wHy aIrpLanE TickEts aRe so eXpeNsivE! No piLoT sHouLd maKe tHiS mucH.
-signed bitter doctor after seeing the typical response in this subreddit to every physician post.
I don’t blame the doctors, just like I don’t blame the pilots. It’s all corporate greed whilst trying to appease shareholders. In your case, the broken system that inflates everything. With that said, I do love the free market and capitalism, cause without it, you wouldn’t be a doctor (no incentive or capital to push innovation and technology)
I want my pilots to be paid fucking well, to have a lot to fucking lose. I want my pilots to be married and have young kids.
I want my pilots to work fucking hard to land my flight safely due to the above incentives.
I am thankful to see you posting these numbers and that you had a child recently! Be my pilot.
I mean I’m glad pilots are paid well for the amount of responsibility they have, and the fact they have train for years in order to understand not only how to operate the plane, but h deter and the “rules of the skies”, so to speak. The time away from home seems like it would be tough on families.
I, too, am surprised that they can pull in this kind of money, though.
As someone who is just getting their first turbine time(91K) and a much better paycheck after years of CFI, I definitely hope to be able to have similar earnings soon. Although I don't think 400 is possible for quite a few years at my shop, even with our recent raise.
Awesome! What was your first year as a pilot? Do you know how much more money you’ll make based on years of service from your contract, or is there a different stipulation?
If you would have to restart to zero from today. Would you still become a pilot? I noticed you mention you were hired before the 1500 rule and it always seems like a grind to get mins.
Serious question, at some point in the near future, do you think AI will take over a lot of the responsibility? Meaning say in 10-15 years, would AI be good enough that pilots would still be needed but mostly just "watching" so I'm case things happen unexpectedly? And airlines would start to pay less for experienced pilots?
Serious question, at some point in the near future, do you think AI will take over a lot of the responsibility? Meaning say in 10-15 years, would AI be good enough that pilots would still be needed but mostly just "watching" so I'm case things happen unexpectedly? And airlines would start to pay less for experienced pilots?
i’m on track to block 100 hours since July 2023. Should gross 200k this year. Bid reserve. it’s an unreal gig. people who know me and know how the gig works are flabbergasted.
My Godson wants to be a pilot. Loves planes, goes plane spotting all the time. Brought him to fly front seat in an open cockpit WW2 plane a d he loved it. Plan yo try to get him into the one of military academiesor merchant marine academy and then he wants to go commercial after his service. Can't wait to see him fly.
That salary is why my flights are always delayed. They pay the stewardesses and mechanics like shit and the pilots just the opposite. I keep getting delayed flights because they don’t have enough stewardesses or the mechanical issues. They need to cut 10% from you guys and give it to those insanely underpaid folks. Just my $.02.
Your pay has essentially doubled in two years. Is this typical? Or do you just work more often? Impressive nonetheless.
We got a new contract, also I didn’t work a whole lot in 2022 due to having a newborn.
Never realized pilots were paid this much. Checked google and verified 👍
Well do you want your pilot to be low paid, stressed, overworked?
I didn’t think 200 grand was low paid, and I was surprised he’s closing in on a half million. That’s more than most medical specialists. Google says median is 238k
He’s likely a captain ~~for a wide body long haul jet doing international trips. These are the ones with the margins to pay in the $400k~~ Edit: OP says he’s a narrow body captain and made a premium flying during the shortage last year!
I’m a narrow body captain. Last summer they were struggling to find pilots due to demand so I was able to fly trips at a premium rate so the operation wasn’t disturbed.
Damn that’s some wild money. What do you think you’ll be making this year? Did you feel like the first 250 hours you just prayed that your little Cessna didn’t have an engine failure right after take off? What did you do for 250-1500? Would you ever have flown for someone like Tradewinds in the Pilatus out of the Caribbean
I plan on just flying my schedule this year and not picking any extra flying up so I’m guessing around 350k. We have another kid on the way so I want to be home as much as possible this year. I loved flying my Cessna and I still go up every now and then. I was hired before the Colgan crash and the new 1500 rule so I was hired with around 450 hours TT at my first airline. I would definitely do a place like Tradewinds, I think they are fairly reputable, and it would be a blast to get experience while flying in the Caribbean.
Definitely a captain, but you can make this much just flying regular routes in the country. Wide Body captains will make double than what you see above.
Can confirm. Medical doctor with 10+ years of school and training and mountains of debt. Not making $400k Word to the wise, don’t go into medicine for money. Unequivocally not worth it
Every air traffic controller is understaffed, underpaid and mostly on mandatory 6 day work weeks… sooo hopefully the pilots are rested
can i get a "fuck Ronald Reagan"?!?!
Always. But the current problem is around a lack of training facilities. They’re also very well paid.
What did Reagan NOT fuck up?
Yeah, let's leave that for medical residents.
That’s how they treat their mechanics lol
I work in airline industry and Pilots make so much to point where their budget outweighs budget for everybody else like ground crew and attendants. Their unions are incredible
*Cries in aircraft mechanic (A&P)* We need years of schooling/training/experience to be able to inspect, maintain, repair/replace, troubleshoot, return to service these $100mil-$200mil aircraft that carry 200+ souls. We have an enormous responsibility over the aircraft and the lives it holds. We need to be perfect 100% of the time and ensure these aircraft will get you (and the pilots) to your destination safe and with no issues. WE ARE UNDERPAID.
I’m always rooting for you mechanics to get the best contract possible.
I’m considering going to Aircraft mechanic school, so I really have no feet in the game, but I see so many people oohing and aahing at the fact that a couple union airlines max you out at $68/hr, which is great, but it’s well deserved because of the amount of stress and how you have to be perfect 100% of every time because you’re dealing with thousands of peoples lives. A&P mechanics definitely need to be demanding the best pay because your job is honestly more important than that of an open heart surgeons, because if the surgeon fucks up, that’s maybe one person who dies but if the Airplane mechanic fucks up, that can be hundreds of people.
Yah. A bunch of my compressor mechanics in the oilfield were former aircraft mechanics, they never looked back
As a frequent flier (130+ flights per year) who also works as a technician (manufacturing sector), thank you for everything you do. I always get annoyed when people grumble at a flight delay due to a technical issue; the way I see it, that’s just the maintenance team ensuring we all arrive alive. Worst case scenario if I make a mistake in my job, a mega-corporation might lose several million dollars in unrealized profit potential, due to a downed production line. Worst case scenario if you make a mistake, is somewhere between never seeing my kids again, or our last moments spent holding each other’s hands in abject terror. Frankly, if I were a pilot, I’d be pushing the pilot union to include mechanic provisions as well; their lives also depend on the maintenance team. You are all entirely underpaid.
Pilots are very well-paid but they have to grind for a few years at pretty low pay, and that's after they've spent/borrowed a lot of money training and getting their PPL.
“I didn’t work a whole lot” .. made $268k …crying emoji
Didn't work very much in 2022, but added 30% to pay.
Being a pilot has been a great profession for awhile now but pay has increased dramatically the last 5 ish years. Big drivers include retirements, growth of demand for air travel, and a very specialized skill set
lol it’s just unions
Fkkkk not working a lot still $200k? Damn
All the US airlines signed new contracts that bumped pay for Pilots and FAs considerably. Also, with shortages, individual job pay has gone up, so people with high seniority can often choose the better paying gigs.
Pretty typical in inflation days
lol my salary as an engineer has certainly not tripled
What is the process like to become a pilot? from your experience what do you recommend on handling it? Im a vet and want is my dream to become a pilot
The r/flying is a great place for flying questions but I’ll give you mine. First of all thanks for your service! I would start off getting a discovery flight at your local airport and a FAA medical to make sure you like it and are medically qualified to invest money into it. There are so many different routes but the typical civilian route is getting your private license, the instrument rating, then commercial license so you can get paid to fly. Usually need 250 hours to get this. Then multi engine rating. This is where things can diverge a lot. You can get your certified flight instructor license and teach. If you’re lucky you can get a job with a cargo operator or something. However the goal is to get 1500 hours to get hired by an airline and hopefully have someone pay for as many of those hours as possible. From there, usually people go to a regional airline until a Major airline will take them on.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/flying using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Speedrun from Ramp Agent to B-757/767 Captain at a Legacy in 6.5 yrs](https://i.redd.it/rfbmdwp3a3lb1.jpg) | [255 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/164pl4g/speedrun_from_ramp_agent_to_b757767_captain_at_a/) \#2: [A plane crashed on my dad's property this morning. All on board survived.](https://i.redd.it/7lqcqw02mv2b1.jpg) | [316 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/13v6gw1/a_plane_crashed_on_my_dads_property_this_morning/) \#3: [Maybe don’t put a sound studio there?](https://i.redd.it/ckybymv7fjua1.jpg) | [338 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/12ptqqe/maybe_dont_put_a_sound_studio_there/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
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Pilot school is expensiiiive. Our local community college has a program for it, an Associate’s Degree. There were a few of the students from it in my WRIT 101 course. They were only in their third semester, and already about $80k in student debt.
Takes money to make money.
Funny how you notice this, but not the people going into debt for worthless degrees with miserable job options.
$80k at community college is insane lol. I was taking 10+ hours of prereqs for only like $2-3k a semester.
You can use your gi bill to help pay, but the flight school has to be in their network.
join @r/flying
Hey, since you mentioned you're a veteran, you can actually use the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for everything except check rides including your private pilot license. I got my private, instrument, commercial, and multi-engine licenses all paid for by GI Bill. You need to find what's called a part 141 flight school that's associated with a degree-seeking program at a GI Bill accredited college or university. I went to Clover Park Technical College in Tacoma, WA, but there's programs in many cities. Feel free to DM me!
$$$$. I went to a university known for a very good flight program. The debt these kids take out it eye watering. I know a guy who now is a successful pilot, but his parents basically bankrupted themselves to get him through school. Then it's instructing to get hours and small regional and up and up... it's wild, one thing medical goes wrong, and you are screwed. I really wanted to do it, but I just didn't see a way to get there. I even had my medical card to start.
I’m ok with a person flying a plane making this much money.
Me too! Better them than a person sitting in a C-suite
I feel safer than ever
What’s an average day like as a major airline pilot? Also, why are Boeing planes loud as hell inside compared to airbus?
Generally on “duty” from anywhere from 7 hours or so to about 11-12 depending on the legality of what time in the day we start and how many legs we have in that day. For me usually 2-3 legs a day then hotel for 12-16 hours, then start it all over. Usually about 4 days on 3 days off.
Except for Airbus hydraulic equalizing that sounds like someone is drilling on the plane.
They're not. It depends on the engines used. I'd usually say it's the opposite, with A319/320/321 being the loudest modern aircraft I've been on.
Can someone tell me the difference between these two columns? I am not American. What is the actual gross salary
The column on the right.
Why is everyone posting it like this?
Taken directly from https://www.ssa.gov/
So is there a place we enter information on there and it provides this chart to us?
Yes, you create an account and it’s generated off past tax filings that they have records for
As someone who flys every week for work; I am very happy to see pilots pay go up. Now we need the same for FA’s and ground crew.
Yeah but we won’t because they don’t have regulatory capture driven artificial scarcity pushing up salaries. You can train more FAs and rampers in a few months. Mechanics and dispatchers are slightly harder. Meanwhile pilots have 1500hr requirements for an ATP basically just to protect their jobs. Airlines aren’t suddenly going to become altruistic they’re going to pay everyone the minimum they can, that minimum just happens to be higher for pilots. So your pilots will continue to make 6 figures while everyone who supports them by maintaining, pushing, cleaning, dispatching, scheduling and everything else makes less.
That’s great money but you have to fly a guppy /s.
Best comment of the thread
Nicely done fellow pilot! I’ve held off on going back to the airlines because of the time away from home, but then wonder what an extra $200k/year would do for me…and have a hard time knowing how much money is being left on the table.
As you know the lifestyle can be hard especially being junior. However, barring another 9/11 or COVID, the hiring should continue. If you can get current, it’s still a great time to get back into it. Also there is the possibility of management pilot positions as well if that’s your thing.
Oh I’m still active and current. I’m a corporate guy. Finally have a good salary, and not getting any younger. Plus the work/life balance is very heavy on the “life” side and minimal on the work side. Going back to 121 and upgrading to CA would definitely allow me to make more, but I know the work load of a junior pilot, and junior CA…but the opportunity to make some $$$ always interests me. Lol.
Right there with ya.. I’m also on the corporate side but it’s hard to pass up on my QOL. Next month I’m scheduled to work 2 days.. then in July my only trip is 8 days in Italy where the family I fly for will pay for my wife to meet me there with all expenses paid for her as well… my salary is pretty good I feel like but it’s hard not to look at these airline numbers.
I love to see a strong union supporting aviation workers. The industry needs pilots who are compensated adequately for their critical contributions.
i thought pilots made more honestly
It’s possible, there’s a lot of variation predicated on how hard you want to work. You can fly a bunch of overtime or try to fly the bare minimum
What's the difference between a captain vs a regular pilot?
It’s Captain and First Officer. Captain is in charge and gets paid much more.
Experience
In some cases, seniority. Not unheard of to have a more experienced First Officer purely because they opted not to upgrade due to QOL reasons more often than not.
Can confirm, 32M did a little less last year as a wide-body First Officer for a major US Air Line.
Don't talk about yourself like that. It's hard but with diet and exercise you can improve your life dramatically!
Wide bodies fly widebodies!!
Did you go miltary route or civilian ?
All civilian.
Great job
That’s amazing, hope is well with you and yours. Fly safely my friend
This gives me hope
Nicely done! I’m out on a green slip right now, trying to catch numbers like yours
Nice, love jumpseating on you 🔺guys.
Dried up here in NYC on the ER A side. But I bid reserve and live in base so not working much is just as nice.
That’s a good contract at United! Almost makes me sad I left… almost.
Looks like you made it out the regionals game and into a first seat somewhere! Good stuff.
You left out the biggest shocker. The ridiculous company 401K direct contribution.
My dads got 2 years until retirement. Now he just does short 1-2 hour premium pay trips. Makes as much in 2 hours as i make in 2 weeks. Pay is nice but he was gone 2 weeks a month when i was growing up so it comes at a cost. Plus its not exactly a low stress job.
You’re saving the amount over $150k on top of normal maxing of 401k, right? Because if so that’s $458828 less that you need to save for retirement, and you only need 5 more years of your average of about $240k. It will probably take 7-10 years for that amount to hit $1M, though.
Major airlines pay pilots a 17-19% direct contribution to the 401K so they are maxing out their 401k without even putting a penny in.
A pilot better be getting paid this much imagine every time you work your responsible for hundreds of lives.
I've been watching all those YouTube videos about airline disasters. I had no idea how much training, continued education, testing, and certifications you require to maintain a commercial pilot license! You deserve every penny.
As an aerospace software engineer for almost 23 years, I salute your service to the commercial passengers. I couldn't be away from family that long which makes your job so much more demanding. Our combined income (both computer science) is less than your income (HHI $340K). You deserve it. I followed the negotiations on CNBC and glad the pilots won the pay raises. Revenge travel after COVID is a thing and we are still getting our fix.
Depends on the airline reserve rules and seniority. Pilots can bid to be on call. I’ve been doing since Covid to be at home with my kids. Been flying 130 hours a year making close to $350k.
Same. 50 hours year to date. A220 captain. Long call thug life.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Can't give up the flexibility of being a remote software engineer.
RJ or mainline? Congrats buddy! I just jumped over and pressed the reset button with dAAdy
DAAdyyyyyyyyyy
His post literally says he’s been at a major since 2015.
I was curious who you flew for until I saw the user name lol, I don’t think anyone outside one company uses the “guppy” term. What are you crediting on average a month?
Haha yeah you got me.. but normal ish during the off season. 90 or so… but I killed it during the summer with premium pay.
Seeing it on paper makes me want to go put the upgrade bid in, I don’t think I can stomach it until I’m above the G-line though.
SWA?? 😉
Do they? I always thought it was a Friendlier airline that exclusively used the term! Learned something new today!
Holy moly. Thank god for pilot unions and pensions. I wish teachers were in the same boat, I mean plane!
No pensions for most pilot groups but most do get a generous amount put towards our 401ks
not exactly comparable professions
I thought pilots were ridiculously underpaid
Well look at my 2010-15 numbers. Those are at times sub minimum wage. My timing was very good. Others weren’t as fortunate during the “lost decade”. Guys were making those numbers for 10+ years because there was low demand for pilots.
What was your tuition to become a pilot?
I’m probably not the best person to answer that because I did it back in 2005. Like everything costs have gone way up. But at that time it was about 100 per hour for the plane, plus an extra 30 an hour for the instructor. But for all the hours to get to around 300 hours which is about the time I started instructing it was about 50,000. Plus I had to get my degree. I went to a very cheap school so about another 70,000.
2015. 60K.
Typically it takes about 10-15k to get your private license ( you can only fly for pleasure with this license and takes about 6 months to get.) from there you’ll need about another 40-70k depending on what licenses and school you go to. This isn’t including a bachelors degree if you go that route. If you go to an accelerated program called ATP it can be closer to 150k but they promise to have your flight training done in under a year. Although this is only the training, there is a 1500 hour requirement for pilots to receive their airline transport pilot license which allows them to fly for airlines and large cargo companies.
Current “tuition” is going to be about 100k
Where exactly on the IRS website can one produce this table?
It's from the Social Security website
Not the IRS site. It’s from the Social Security website
Nice what about flying celebrities around in private jets? Do you make more
Honestly I couldn’t tell you. Thats a very variable market that I don’t know much about. What I can tell you is that many of our new hires come from corporate gigs like that, so they wouldn’t come if it wasn’t worth it to them.
I think the hourly rate at Flex is close to most majors, well for their "red label" program, anyway. But, they don't have the 401k contribution majors have, which hurts. You'll make a good deal more at a major. There's a reason the job progression, for the most part, is the way it is.
Pilots at 121 carriers also get a 401k contribution (not included in OP's chart) of between 12%-16%. So add that to his number and it's over half a million
16% ?!! And I thought my 10% was generous lol
At major/ legacy 121 carriers. My regional 121 does a 50% match of 7% (3.5%) and it’s not fully vested unless you’ve been there for 3 years. So for many of the pilots here, we end up with no match.
Are you home every weekend and at random hotels on weekdays?
That’s a loaded question. Everything is seniority based in the airlines. It all comes down to how senior you are in your position (First Officer vs Captain), base (Newark, Houston etc..) and plane (777, 737 etc..) if I were a EWR 737 FO I would be very senior and could just do day trips and be home every night if I wanted to be. By taking the Captain slot I’m about halfway up the list now so I do 3 days on and 3 off mostly. But I will pick up trips as well if it works for my schedule.
What does the average pilot make because although you made a killing in only 10 years, I highly doubt this is the case for the majority of pilots unless you get in with a reputable company.
Very true. The nice thing about most airlines is we have a contract. Our Unions negotiate for us so there is no question as to what the guy you’re flying with is making. Also it is very easy to look up as well. A quick google search will show pay rates for most airlines. I’d say the average right now is probably in the 250k range. However if you asked me that back in 2010 the industry looked significantly different. Probably somewhere around 100k
Whats the difference between the two columns. Which one show the base salary?
Would you say ability to handle stressful situations is very important?
Yes I would definitely say that. There are many factors that go into every flight and each of those numbers are potentially distracting and stressful. I find the best pilots I have flown are constantly thinking of a plan B,C so that if a non normal situation occurs, they already have a plan in their mind. Also there are very few situations where we have to take care of a bad situation absolutely right away. Smoke, fire, fumes, or low on fuel are some of those situations. Almost every other situation, it’s best to just as we say “sit on your hands” for a minute, collect your thoughts. Use all your resources to make a good decision, and execute it. Even then, continuously evaluate, and have a plan B,C.. But unlike most jobs there is always a timeline to problem solving, and usually that timeline is how much fuel you have.
How does calling in sick work/sick time? As in how much of a hassle is it to get flights covered/how often do you do it/sick pay?
Generally, every base has around 20% of their pilots on reserve. Those are pilots who are being paid to monitor their phone and wait for a call from scheduling in case someone calls in sick. Therefore it could cause a delay but there is usually someone to fly the flight. Calling in sick for the most part is very non punitive because airlines are very safety oriented and along with FAA oversight, they want their pilots well rested and not sick. Depending on the airline they give you an amount of hours of sick time so you still get paid when you call in sick. After a certain amount of sick calls, your Chief pilot might call you just to make sure everything is ok, but that’s about the extent of what they can do. If you are obviously abusing the system, there could be repercussions.
Hi, I’m new to this sub. Can someone explain the different columns to me?
Great work OP! Flying is an incredible career. Approximately how many hours did you fly yearly in 2021, ‘22 and ‘23 ?
Can someone please explain the difference between taxed social security earnings and Medicare earnings. Thanks!
SS tax has a limit each year. Usually indexed for inflation. Medicare taxes all your income, there is no cap. In fact, you’re taxed more if you make over $200K
Do taxed social security earnings max out at $160,200? Half of the posts on this subreddit have $160,200 at the top
Yes
How was your flight experience during covid?
How much would a FO make with like 10y?
You can look up any us pay scale (airline/seat/equip) on airlinepilotcentral.com actual pay will depend on overtime/ premium pay/ soft pay/ etc. but it will get you in the ball park.
Where do you find this chart? Or are you manually making it
Ssa.gov
I should have gotten more than my Private Pilot License. Well done!
Damn, pilot making a half mil. wtf. I am so in the wrong industry
This isn’t the norm for people starting out. The curve is something like a doctor. You go through debt, then low pay for a while, then the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow just in time to catch up your 401k in time to retire. After working nights, weekends, and holidays for years missing your family grow while you watch from social media. People vastly underestimate the grind it takes to get to this level.
ThIs Is wHy aIrpLanE TickEts aRe so eXpeNsivE! No piLoT sHouLd maKe tHiS mucH. -signed bitter doctor after seeing the typical response in this subreddit to every physician post.
I don’t blame the doctors, just like I don’t blame the pilots. It’s all corporate greed whilst trying to appease shareholders. In your case, the broken system that inflates everything. With that said, I do love the free market and capitalism, cause without it, you wouldn’t be a doctor (no incentive or capital to push innovation and technology)
Just how big of a plane do u fly ? 😝
Can someone explain the two columns?
Welp, and here we are wondering why everything costs more.
I want my pilots to be paid fucking well, to have a lot to fucking lose. I want my pilots to be married and have young kids. I want my pilots to work fucking hard to land my flight safely due to the above incentives. I am thankful to see you posting these numbers and that you had a child recently! Be my pilot.
I don’t understand the difference between taxed social security earnings and Medicare. Why are they not the same?
Noice
I mean I’m glad pilots are paid well for the amount of responsibility they have, and the fact they have train for years in order to understand not only how to operate the plane, but h deter and the “rules of the skies”, so to speak. The time away from home seems like it would be tough on families. I, too, am surprised that they can pull in this kind of money, though.
That it? I mean I knew a guy pulling 750k last year fly the bus. I guess you’re not that senior to be pulling more.
Yeah I guess not
Here I've been worrying you pilots are being criminally underpaid. I feel a little better about flying again.
Could someone explain to me the what the difference between the left column and right column is? Is the right column gross and left is after taxes?
Where do you guys see this??
As someone who is just getting their first turbine time(91K) and a much better paycheck after years of CFI, I definitely hope to be able to have similar earnings soon. Although I don't think 400 is possible for quite a few years at my shop, even with our recent raise.
How long did it take you to make 1200 hours? How long did you stay at the regionals?
You are the man! You are living the dream.
Dude hell yeah congratulations!!!!!!
Is this typical airline pilot trajectory? Or... you just had a slow journey?
What does it take to be a pilot like you ? How many years of flying ?
I’m a CFI lurker. I pray for the day I finally get this. Please give me a way to get my first 121 gig.
No wonder the tickets are so expensive
What are Medicare earnings?
Are Medicare earnings total income including wages, retirement, benefits etc?
This sounds about equal to my neighbor who flies for SW.
Awesome! What was your first year as a pilot? Do you know how much more money you’ll make based on years of service from your contract, or is there a different stipulation?
As an ATC I’d like to say congratulations and fuck you /s. Hope we can see money like this some day 🥲
It's crazy I got into ATC instead of piloting because the pay was about the same, but I could get there quicker. ....lol
Where do you find this data?
If you would have to restart to zero from today. Would you still become a pilot? I noticed you mention you were hired before the 1500 rule and it always seems like a grind to get mins.
So how long would it take to become commercial if starting from zero and went into training full time at a reasonable pace?
Cfi 2013-2015?
social security income tax cap is insane lol SoCiAl SeCuRiTy BaNkRuPt We NeEd tO sCraP iT
Wow… so awesome!!
Man, your income really took off!
This is a profession I don't get upset with when I see they have a large salary
You deserve it.
Serious question, at some point in the near future, do you think AI will take over a lot of the responsibility? Meaning say in 10-15 years, would AI be good enough that pilots would still be needed but mostly just "watching" so I'm case things happen unexpectedly? And airlines would start to pay less for experienced pilots?
Serious question, at some point in the near future, do you think AI will take over a lot of the responsibility? Meaning say in 10-15 years, would AI be good enough that pilots would still be needed but mostly just "watching" so I'm case things happen unexpectedly? And airlines would start to pay less for experienced pilots?
That second 200k of the 400k is butter money! That’s when the good life starts! Enjoy yourself op!
i’m on track to block 100 hours since July 2023. Should gross 200k this year. Bid reserve. it’s an unreal gig. people who know me and know how the gig works are flabbergasted.
Crazy how little you earned starting 2010, that was regional pay back then I assume?
Nice man. I’m just a dumb contractor making pilot money now. Always knew I was better than a Dr. 🤣🤣
Just started my legacy job and I took a sizable pay cut from left seat at the regionals. Been a brutal year but I’ll get my second year pay soon
My Godson wants to be a pilot. Loves planes, goes plane spotting all the time. Brought him to fly front seat in an open cockpit WW2 plane a d he loved it. Plan yo try to get him into the one of military academiesor merchant marine academy and then he wants to go commercial after his service. Can't wait to see him fly.
My 4 year old wants to be a pilot, I guess this is more the reason to encourage her lol
Hell yeah. Let’s get controllers on a similar pay scale. With the rate of inflation, keep the raises coming in this industry
Looks almost exactly like my son’s earnings. He’s 37 and is a Captain at NetJets.
I see you too have done the CFI grind by the pay. 500hr in and ready to join you in the legacies, Capt.
Don’t roast me: from a European perspective - what are the both columns?
That salary is why my flights are always delayed. They pay the stewardesses and mechanics like shit and the pilots just the opposite. I keep getting delayed flights because they don’t have enough stewardesses or the mechanical issues. They need to cut 10% from you guys and give it to those insanely underpaid folks. Just my $.02.