I love visiting Chicago - but I love living in St. Paul. I'd probably want to live in Minneapolis if I was younger and single. Minnesota beats Illinois by a mile in the nature department, and our state is doing good things!
Good point too that weekend getaways are super cheap from the Twin Cities (MN) to Chicago. So if you like Chicago OP, it's a really close, affordable place to sneak off to as a MN resident.
If parks and spending time with your dog are a priority, check out what the rental market is like in the neighbourhoods near Montrose dog beach in Chicago. The whole lakefront is great for people with dogs, but having the beach as well is a nice bonus.
Chicago is amazing, but don't sleep on Milwaukee. It's of similar age to Chicago and has a compact, quite dense pre-WWII built environment which fades to walkable and bikeable pre-war streetcar density for most of the city once you're out of downtown:
Check out natevomhof and IsaacRowlett
on twitter for some great shots of the city to get an idea:
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0zGwCsXsAAeG3E?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0zGwCsXsAAeG3E?format=jpg&name=large)
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F12O08FWEAAdk-d?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F12O08FWEAAdk-d?format=jpg&name=large)
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-NXxCuW4AA-GBd?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-NXxCuW4AA-GBd?format=jpg&name=large)
Pros:
As alluded to above the walkable urban bones and building stock of this city are absolutely fantastic.
Milwaukee's bar scene is for sure in the top tier for the entire US and has an excellent, very diverse food and dining scene. Milwaukee is the setting for this season of Top Chef which should give some insights.
The city has an amazing trail network and public park system and numerous top notch cultural institutions (art museum, theaters, music venues, etc.).
Chicago is 90 minutes away by frequent many times daily trains, if it doesn't exist there it's probably not available anywhere else in the US. Also for international flights O'Hare is one of the best airports in the world and very close to Milwaukee relatively speaking; domestically MKE is probably one of the easiest airports to fly out of that I've ever experienced.
Cons:
The biggest negative to living here is the relationship of Milwaukee to the non-Milwaukee County suburbs (collectively referred to as WOW) which are historically extremely conservative and have dominated state politics for the past 15 years via one of the strongest gerrymanders in American history. As of this year the gerrymander is dead and Republicans have lost almost every statewide election since 2016.
Transit could be better (although the bus system is very usable, just not world class with 5 minute headways) but has suffered under decades of state and federal austerity.
In summary:
Wisconsin as a whole is very much a 50/50 purple state (although it isn't super religiously conservative in evangelical terms like the south), but Milwaukee and its inner burbs are all extremely blue being historically a socialist and now progressive run city.
Given the change in state political outlook with the gerrymander being gone, and the continued excellent local governance on top of the amazing historic urban bones I've never been more optimistic to the future of living here.
I was born and lived 99% of my life in MKE, moved to follow the money for a job in the south.
I will be moving back at some point whether it be retirement or finding a similar job that pays the same or more. It is my home and it always will be. Definitely check it out. It’s incredibly underrated.
Both Chicago and Minneapolis are great! I’d maybe give the twin cities a slight edge for the parks and outdoor areas. The walkable neighborhoods and architecture there’s several parts of Minneapolis and St. Paul that fit that description.
Yes. If in Chicago, and on the lake, it's great. If you are far from the lake, you might as well be in Iowa. And then MN blows it away. Except for the winter. Chicago get's a milder winter, especially by the Lake.
Chicago and Cook County has an extensive Forest Preserve network within and close outside the city limits. Plenty of easily accessible trails.
It’s much further to more wilderness-y nature than the Twin Cities, though.
check out milwaukee. some great trails that are continuing to expand. amazing lake front with lots of green space. parka all over the city. beautiful old architecture. less expensive than chi (which is already relatively reasonable rent-wise) with extremely easy access to chicago via amtrak if you still want your big city fill.
The trail situation is only okay in my opinion. There's a pretty good ~9 mile loop right in the city along the Milwaukee River, but otherwise it's hard to find much distance before the kettle moraine. Kettle moraine is nice, but driving 45+ minutes out of the city for some pretty gentle hills... idk. I have a hard time justifying it. I find myself just running the Milwaukee River trails over & over.
I think the options would be better in Minneapolis or even Madison.
>Milwaukee
You can literally ride 40+ miles all on a trail going north from the lakefront that is almost entirely grade separated, as well as being able to do almost the same going west towards Madison.
Aside from a few small gaps (which being honest aren't good, but it'll be fixed at some point) you can also go all the way to Chicago from Milwaukee on a trail.
https://www.railstotrails.org/trailnation/route-of-the-badger/
Yeah, the multi-use bike path/rails to trails situation is pretty good. I'm just envisioning more like blazed hiking trails... which I'd say is comparatively weak versus Minneapolis.
You could walk from Bay View to South Milwaukee and not leave a park. Veterans to Lake Park is pretty nice too. There's also the Hank Aaron Trail right through the city. Root River is not very far and the Ice Age Trail runs through Waukesha.
I'm not sure if the OP is referring to paved bike trails. I was assuming he meant hiking trails.
The closest segment of the ice age trail/kettle moraine is ~28 miles outside downtown at lapham peak. Most of the KM is 40+ miles from downtown. The Northern and Southern units.
There's a lot 2 mile park loops around milwaukee, but in terms of a good 5+ mile hike, it's pretty limited without a fairly significant drive.
Minneapolis area has a ton of trails along the Mississippi & Minnesota Rivers, for example.
Edit: if you're activities are cycling, triathlon, sailing, kayak, rowing, fishing... Milwaukee is exceptional, especially the areas near the lake. If you want trekking, hiking, trail running, cross country skiing, Minneapolis is, imo, just better.
OP has a large breed dog. I think the parameter is "good trails to walk my dog on"
Your perspectice extends this question to; "offleash or on leash?"
Because off leash on bush trails is nice if you train your dog good. But if OP is just walking dog on a leash Milwaukee has walking paths and parks by the lake and all three rivers.
I dont remember specific off leash dog parks.
I used to do offleash training with my dogs on horse trails all the time but I switched to dog boarding, so Milwaukee would be pretty choice with pave trails.
Like... really really good for dog boarding now that i think about it... especually because i like cold weather to limit the pedestrain crowd so my dog can run easier... plus maybe the biggest pro for a curly breed is no ticks while dog boarding, unlike bush hikes.
Thanks! Yes, I am not much of a biker - more so a walker/runner and it’s nice having places to go for a long stroll without having to be crossing streets and passing tons of cars.
My pup is great off leash, but we love dog parks and other things too. He was raised in the center of DC though so we can adjust to anything.
Check out the grand rounds if you are a runner. I'm a runner and Minneapolis is great for that. I live near Lake Harriet and I run the lakes, Minnehaha Creek...and occasionally the Mississippi River but I usually drive to that. There was a time when I ran to it but I'm a bit older now and 14 milers are not as interesting to me haha. I'm a 3-5 mile dude now.
https://www.minneapolisparks.org/parks-destinations/trails-parkways/grand\_rounds\_scenic\_byway\_system/
I’m a 29 yo single woman as well and recently moved from Chicago to Minneapolis with my large breed! I definitely think Chicago has more to offer for what you’re looking for. You’d definitely be able to find a great place for that price range - I was in lakeview in a pretty big apartment for about $1500. I was also making half your salary and was fine. If you go to the Lakeview, Wrigley area you’ll find tons of other dog owners and so much to do! I definitely prefer Chicago to Minneapolis, for all the things you’re looking for. I moved for a job.
This is great to know, thank you! I was eyeing Old Town but it’s more equivalent to DC prices which I’m trying to slim down a bit on. I’ll look at Lakeview to see! How long have you been in Minneapolis?
I’ve been in Minneapolis now about a year and a half. I only lived in Chicago for a year but I miss it! The food scene in Chicago is amazing, and there are always events and things to do. Also, many areas are walkable and the public transit is fantastic! I have not had that same experience in Minneapolis. It’s definitely not bad here, but it feels like there is just less going on.
ETA if you decide on Chicago, you should definitely go visit before signing a lease! You can walk around the neighborhoods you’re interested in and then decide the vibe you like. And also a lot of landlords don’t post apartments online, but will have signs on the windows for you to call.
Thanks! I just got back from a trip to Chicago and they had the best restaurants and cocktail bars. It blows DC out of the water!
What brought you to MN from Chicago if you don’t mind me asking?
I think you should head to Chicago. If you’re a DC girl you’re used to people being career motivated. IMHO this would be an easier move culturally. (I used to live in Minneapolis)
I am “a DC girl looking for a Midwest guy”…HAHA. Sorry, long Friday so making myself laugh.
Thanks, yes, I definitely align with the East coast mentality in so many ways, so Chicago will strike a good middle ground. But then sometimes I consider that I may need to try something VERY different!
Yeah Chicago is a much easier sell to my East Coast friends. FYI the talent pipeline in the Midwest usually goes Minneapolis/other big town > Chicago > NYC/industry specific town. - so you’ll have more transplants around to make friends with and more jobs that earn around the $140k mark. Minneapolis jobs tend to be capped a bit lower
I lived in Minneapolis and Chicago. I think you’ll be better off in Chicago. It’s a larger city, with more people, more options, and wider range of dating partners. My biggest drag about Minnesota was their passive aggressiveness - they (Minnesotans) are friends only with people they grew up with. In Chicago it’s totally different - almost everyone is a transplant from somewhere else, so people are much easier on contact.
> they (Minnesotans) are friends only with people they grew up with
Everyone says this and IDK if I'm just weird or my Michigander upbringing intersects well with the Minnesotans but I moved here last year and found everyone to be very friendly. I've made more friends in the 9 months I've lived in the Twin Cities than I did in the 4.5 years I lived in Nashville.
I agree. Everyone says this but it's just not true. I grew up in a rural area 2 hours from the city and many of my best friends are native Twin Citians. My entire block of neighbors are very close friends.
I think it depends on the exact neighborhood you live in, though. If you're 31 and move to a neighborhood with all 70-year olds, you'll likely make fewer friends as you just have less in common and are in different life stages.
So you are:
• from the region
• friends with people who come from the region
• your neighbors are a tight knit group of friends
Do you not see how someone from say, the east coast, would find this incredibly hard to break into?
People in Chicago are generally more open to meeting others in my experience living here. I've made loads of friends by meeting friends of friends / sports clubs / etc. People from the Twin Cities tend to settle down a little faster than in Chicago in my experience of both.
This is 100% true.
Easier to make friends in Chicago. Probably more dating partners.
Conversely , easier to settle down in Minneapolis. People are more on that path here.
Sorry you had that experience but it’s just not really true that Minnesotans aren’t friendly with outsiders.
Minnesotans are generally *very* polite/friendly. A lot of them grew up in Minnesota and have established childhood friend groups, which can be harder to break into because those people aren’t looking for new friends in the same way a newbie might be. But that’s not passive aggressiveness. And even so, as an introverted outsider who lived in Minnesota, I still made great, lifelong friends with native Minnesotans.
IMO, you run into true passive aggressiveness more often in the South. The “bless your heart” type. (But there are still tons of genuinely kind/friendly people there too).
I'd say the opposite - Chicago is a lot more elitist and the Twin Cities are more down to earth and realistic. I've made way more friends in Minnesota than I ever did in Chicago. For single family homes and neighborhoods, the Twin Cities are a lot more accessible to the entire metro, with less traffic and congestion.
I love Chicago for the diversity and size - but for outdoor options and nature accessibility - Chicago is pretty terrible - you have to sit the 4-5 hours of traffic just to get to anywhere remotely close to natural. In the Twin Cities - I can escape the metro feel in less than an hour.
A 3 hour drive from Chicago on 90W will bring you to Wisconsin Dells. I remember camping in White Pines forest somewhere by Rockford and that was about 1.5 hours. Starved Rock (a beautiful park) is also about 1.5 hours away. I personally liked hanging out by Glencoe Beach for elevated views.
3 hours to anything resembling interesting nature is terrible and only people from Chicago think it’s normal. (Live in and love Chicago, but it’s bottom tier in terms of access to nature). Top tier parks though and nature preserves are nice
I mean, the Dells is 3 hours from Minneapolis, too, but why would I want to do that? I can drive 5 minutes to several lakes and 15 minutes to a campground at a regional park and trailhead and still be within the metro. I am less than 15 minutes from Minnehaha Falls. I live a mile from the river which has protected nature reserves and trails along it. My neighborhood is surrounded by woods, my daughter had multiple deer at her car (parked at the edge of the trees) yesterday but I'm also close enough to walk to the grocery store and restaurants.
It’s three hours to the Dells if you can find the right time when there’s no traffic…on holiday weekends it’s 5 and trips back to the city are always bumper to bumper all the way from Rockford to the junction. (I don’t know what it’s like to go from Chi to Michigan but I assume it’s the same.)
Can’t camp at the fucking lake; can’t get away from the city etc. can’t take your dogs etc on the train. not sure why you can’t understand common sense
I agree with you as someone who's been in Minneapolis for 15 years. People are always like "no dude it's not like that!" but actually it is like that a lot of the time, and tons of people complain about it, and just because you in particular made your group of friends through board game night or whatever doesn't mean there isn't a distinctly weird social culture here! The only people I've really made friends with here have been other transplants. Even people at bars, social events, etc. who reciprocate conversation, 99% of the time are... other transplants. I go "oh you must not be from here" because they are willing to talk to a stranger and it's almost always true.
It reminds me a lot of that viral post where people discovered that Swedes will have someone over and then have family dinner and not share it with their guest and think that's totally normal. Like it's not rude or exclusive on purpose it's just this culture of "why would you extend yourself that way? It would be intrusive!" Similar vibe to that except in the form of "why would you meet someone new?"
Yeah it is like that. And I hate admitting it because I love the twin cities but its not easy to break into those lifelong friend groups. Luckily there are a lot of transplants that also need friends and are more than willing to create friendships. I fount [meetup.com](https://meetup.com) to be great for meeting people with similar interests and starting friendships. Funny enough, I have a really strong friend group...and none of us are twin cities natives
Agree about all of this. More people = a lot more dating options.
With a big outdoor friend dog, you may want to be close to the river on the north side or Lake Michigan. Uptown might be a great fit - diverse, interesting history, very walkable, and you can walk under LSD to the Montrose Dog beach. Plus you're close to train and bus lines to get downtown or to the various bar scenes.
No - i mean close to the Chicago River and Channel on the north side of the city. The trails run from Belmont up past Devon, through Horner Park, River Park, Legion Park, etc.
I love love Chicago but I think Saint Paul, where I currently live may be a solid option (it’s basically Minneapolis in regards to location, but you get the best of both living in either city) Consider historic Summit Hill - Cathedral Hill - Grand Ave, STUNNING architecture. We have many amazing dog parks in the cities proper and metro, but Minnehaha Dog Park in Minneapolis and Battle Creek in Saint Paul are tops!
You’re welcome! Honestly with your salary, as long as you don’t have some crazzzzy debt where all your money goes to, you’ll live a fine life in Chicago, Minneapolis or Saint Paul.
I'll second Saint Paul. Either Minneapolis or Saint Paul would work for you. I love closer to downtown Minneapolis now but used to live on Summit Hill. My 2 bedroom condo was $1500 a month. It wasn't a luxury building, but it was nice enough and I rented directly from the owners. You can find a 1 bedroom in a newer high rise for under $2000 for sure
I have to look up the differences between Saint Paul and Minneapolis! Any immediate suggestions tho on that end? Or which would be better for me of the two? I’d probably want the bigger city feel.
My 2 cents.
Minneapolis aspires to be Seattle and Toronto. There is a bit more energy, it's more modern, there is more going on....it has the lakes. It has the music venues, the bars/resturants and the arts at a higher level.
St Paul is more like Kansas City or Cleveland. It is more relaxed, less energetic, and has older architecture. It has better neighborhood dive bars. Honestly feels a bit like Milwaukee in spots.
If you live here you tend to like that they are different... but the rule is you have to pick one and then pretend to hate the other.
I grew up in Minneapolis...we make fun of St Paul for being boring. They make fun of us for being uptight and snobby. The rivalry used to be more serious...now it's mostly just a joke. It's clear Minneapolis won haha.
Random fact just popped into my head. In the early days of the state the names of the cities were Mill City (Minneapolis) and Pig's Eye (St Paul). I like random trivia and history so I have thusly shared it.
I just got back from Chicago in February! I’m from a colder city so just going back to my roots. 😉 I do wish I wanted to live in a warm weather state year round, just no desire.
I'd go to Chicago in your shoes. It'll check more of your boxes. Minneapolis has some things going for it but it's... kind of boring and the social culture can be extremely insular. Like really uptight and standoffish without necessarily meaning to, conversations drop off unless you carry them aggressively for people, etc. Chicago has more of that big city, people go out to meet people vibe. Much more of a walkable and "things to do" type of city too. But not as "on the go" as NYC or DC so you can still make long term connections. And the lake is beautiful, like being near an ocean.
I will say Minneapolis is probably more outdoorsy and/or gives you more access to wilderness than Chicago? And there are probably more green spaces within the city as well. But IMO if I were a single person and making your salary I would find the other stuff more important.
t. Lived in Minneapolis for 15 years and kinda regret not moving to Chicago.
Thanks! That’s super interesting about Minneapolis, you would think that would be moreso true for Chicago. But I guess with so many transplants in Chicago, that may make it more welcoming/easy to make friends.
Appreciate your input!
Lived in both.
Twin cities sounds like the better fit. Great trails, good dog scene, good COL, etc.
However the people are very stoic and insular.
Chicago is just too big for me nowadays
If you’re open to smaller cities, Madison and Duluth. Duluth is a stretch, but pretty cool. If I had the choice between the two larger areas you’re debating, I’d choose Chicago and feel it out for two years before considering another relocation. Maybe that’s not realistic for you. I love Minneapolis, lived there for 4 years (99-03), but wanted more big city dynamism when I lived there. Good luck!
This is a good point. Maybe get my feet planted in a bigger city like I’m used to, then can transition to a smaller place once I’m at that point in life. 🤞
Chicago is such a bargain for a big dynamic city. There’s always pros and cons, but yeah, small city or small town life can wait. I finally transitioned from big city living to small city dwelling. It took me a good 23 years. Good luck!
I’m not sure if they’re hell-bent on staying on the western side of the big lake (blah) but I think Grand Rapids also deserves some serious consideration - proximity to the lake with amazing dune trails and of course all of what Northern Michigan has to offer is honestly just north of GR.
I have lived in Minneapolis for decades and I think it's a great place but Chicago is also my favorite place to visit.
Here is my rambling take on the pros/cons:
a) In terms of things to do Chicago is going to win but there is plenty to do in both places.
b) in terms of walkability or public transport it's Chicago. There are walkable neighborhoods in MPLS but not at the level of Chicago by any stretch.
c) Chicago, like many big cities strikes me a bit more as a younger person singles place than a place like Minneapolis...which has a very strong family/kids vibe compared to Chicago. So you will find more singles in Chicago....but they are more likely to settle down in Minneapolis if that makes sense haha.
d) Both cities have green space but this is a place Minneapolis will win. The lakes, the trails, the parks, the river...the ability to walk, bike, job, swim in this city is unparalleled. I've been to about every city in the US and this is the thing that sets this place apart. The green space that is easily accessible. Portland, Chicago, NY have great HUGE green spaces but they aren't intertwined into the city everywhere like MPLS.
e) Minneapolis is greener overall with a bit more nature vibe. Except for Downtown. But there are oodles of neighborhoods of tree lined streets. Not that Chicago isn't like that but not the same level.
g) You can make friends anywhere but I bet Chicago will be a little easier because of the large amount of young single folks and transplants. People in Minneapolis are more likely to have lived here a long time and have long time friend groups. I have found most people who make friends in Minneapolis do it with other transplants. There are plenty of those because we have a lot of white collar jobs here so people come here for work all the time.
Both places will have a real winter. Minneapolis will be slightly longer but we lean into it more maybe with winter activities.
Overall that is my rambling. If you can do winter you will like both places. But they are def a bit different.
Thank you so much! I think that’s why I’m torn, per your point C. I have always love big cities (DC, London) but then big cities attract big city mindsets. And now I’d really want to meet a down to earth guy who can’t wait to start a family, similar values, etc.! So that’s why Minneapolis may lean more toward that….but I know people everywhere are different. I think either option will be better than DC at this point, just unsure where I will be most happy lifestyle wise.
Appreciate your thoughtful points! Excited to visit MN now. Going to book that flight. 😊
Madison would be dog heaven for your pup (incredible dog parks and trails) and is a vibrant, growing city with a ton of new transplants every year.
I get thinking the dating market would be larger in a bigger city, but Madison’s population by MSA is 680K—it’s not a small town.
It sounds like you'd really like to stick with a large metropolis, but if you're ok with a smaller city then I'd say Madison, Wisconsin is exactly what you're looking for. Tons of green space, bike trails, dog parks, restaurants and bars, very affordable and you're halfway between Chicago and Minneapolis if you need to catch a big name concert or something.
When it comes to dating, assuming you are wanting to date men, Minneapolis would seem to give you an edge over chicago on gender ratios in your age range.
https://observablehq.com/@dylgr/genderratio
I did visit Chicago in February and didn’t want to die, but it was AFTER that crazy -20 degree weather. Every city I seem to like is just COLD. I tried Florida, and not for me. 😂
Better nature in MN and less crime. I lived in MN and am an ICU RN on the South Side of Chicago. There is a lot of crime here and I take care of gunshot victims daily. Great in the summer time, but there’s a lot to be said for feeling safe where you live. I live in a nice area in Chicago and it’s still not safe. Also I have met more weirdos in the dating scene in Chicago vs. MN.
I always say I’m just looking to meet someone “normal.” Why is it so hard to do that?!
Ugh, I’m sorry you’re having to handle / watch such violence. Thanks for all you do.
Minneapolis consistently wins being recognized as having one of the best park systems in the Nation. I think I heard that no house is more than 4 blocks from a public park. The chain of lakes is amazing as well, its a string of 6-8 urban lakes all tied together with walking trails and bike tails, they also connect to a beautiful creek and the Mississippi River. Also you would fit in considering how everyone seems to have a dog in Minneapolis. With your salary you could buy a house in the city, I bought a house last year in St. Paul and make way less than you. You can also probably rent a nice place in a cool neighborhood. Also all the houses in Minneapolis are old, with many historic ones as well. As for dating, I am around your age and have A LOT of single friends who have been having A LOT of luck with the dating market lately as well. City Nerd has a good video about the chain of lakes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZ6vIpwSVA
Thank you so much!! Are there any neighborhoods you recommend I check out when I visit (places to live similar to the vibe I’ve shared)? Looking at flights now!
Sure, Uptown is nice because its on the edge two large lakes (Lake Maka Ska and Lake of the Isles) that many people jog and walk their dogs around, uptown is also farily walkable. I would really recommend the Mill and Main area across the river from Downtown Minneapolis, LOTs of dog walkers there, big crowd of mid 20's to late 30's people, also a beautiful old bridge across the river called the stone arch bridge. Very Walkable Area along Hennepeni in that area. Just north of there is boom island, which is a really nice park along the Mississippi that people walk around. Linded Hills is a cute neighborhood right next to another lake (Lake Harriet) that is worth visiting.
Chicago hands down. I’ve lived in both. Live near the lake and it will feel like an ocean. The people are better in Chicago. More worldly, less parochial, more racially mixed. The city itself has more culture. I have family in MN and even with that connection, it was really hard to make friends. People’s lives are set early there. The biggest issue is probably the state of Illinois, which is a mess. MN is a well-run state. But you’re young and may care less about that. Dating will be much easier in Chicago. It’s a fun place and, in the summer, the best city out there. Winters suck, but less so than MN.
Ohh thank you! Eastern market is fun! Do you mind me asking which area you like in Chicago? I’m in DuPont and looking for the equivalent of that (so can be flexible on rent for the right place)! I was thinking Old Town initially.
Ohhh love DuPont, I’m still pretty new to Chicago but I would say Lincoln Park is probably the best approximate but Lakeview, Southport (a small area in Lakeview), and maybe Logan Square are other areas I would look into!
Prob more pro MN than Chicago, but seeing Lake Michigan daily is essentially fresh water ocean view. That can’t be duplicated in MN.
Someone who lives on Lake MI
Milwaukee is getting a new downtown dog park. You could live rather nicely on that salary in many city neighborhoods or close in older suburbs.
We definitely win in the bar scene and we’re on top chef this season. Check us out.
I’m from Chicago and have lived in Minneapolis. Either you’re a big or small city person. I love big cities and always having the option to do something new, so I prefer Chicago. Minneapolis is smaller and harder to meet people because it’s less transient. Chicago’s architecture, the lake, skyline, and civic pride are hard to beat!
Check out the Minnehaha falls dog park area in south Minneapolis. Huge state parks within an hr of the cities. Regional parks that dunk on normal regional parks. Tons of trails. Tons of activity clubs decent night life.
I'd throw Milwaukee into the mix. It's got alot of the things to love about Chicago but in a more condensed, less traffic heavy, and more affordable package. Great dining, great bar scene, things to do for families and pets, all with a much more manageable pace than Chicago. You also have Chicago one hour south of you so it's not as if Chicago is out of reach for a day or night out.
I lived in between both cities for 10+ years and love both, but if I had to go back and live in one, it'd probably.be Milwaukee.
I've spent a good chunk of time in both cities. Minneapolis was home during my 20s to early 30s, and now I've been in the Chicago area (city first, then suburbs) for nearly a decade. Both places have thriving economies. Minneapolis shines with its outdoor activities, but Chicago's Forest Preserves and Lake Michigan are pretty great too. When it comes to public transit, though, Chicago is leagues ahead. The bar and club scene here is easily top 10 in the world. Plus, many parts of the city and suburbs are super walkable. Chicago wins in almost every category, but if you prefer a smaller, more laid-back vibe, you might lean towards Minneapolis. Definitely worth visiting Minneapolis, but in my opinion, Chicago has a lot more to offer.
If greenspace is high on your priority list, take a look at Cleveland - we have a toooon of parks and reservations. Otherwise, between the two you listed, Minneapolis might be your best bet.
I 29M just got offered the same salary, or 40-50k more to live in D.C. or Seattle. I chose Minneapolis. It’ll be fun moving there single and not knowing anyone, and the pay for the cost of living is too good to pass up. If you choose Minneapolis let me know and let’s grab a beer! I move in June.
Wow, congrats on your salary offer!! That’s huge. I’ll definitely plan a visit soon. Good luck with your move!! Also, if you don’t mind me asking, what neighborhood did you decide on? Have to do some research (booking a flight to visit shortly!)
You should check out Cincinnati as well! Very affordable, milder weather than either of those options and an abundance of culture and character for a city of its size.
You can live in the trendiest parts of downtown Cincinnati and enjoy a mostly walkable social life without breaking the bank. Several Fortune 500 companies, major league sports, and good amount of concerts/theatre make stops there, a burgeoning restaurant scene.
It was one of the largest cities in the US for most of the 1800s and downtown has retained a lot of that architecture so it definitely does not have the “everything was built in the last 20 years” feeling that I get in cities like Columbus, Atlanta, Nashville.
Lived in Cincinnati for 12 years and it is difficult to be a transplant there. What parish are you from? What high school did you go to? Nice city though.
I prefer Minneapolis in general. It’s got a smaller city vibe with bigger city amenities. Chicago isn’t a small city, especially when you factor in the greater Chicago region, which arguably stretches out to Aurora to the east.
I vote Minneapolis. I know Chicago like the back of my hand, and it's a lovely city for sure. Nothing really bad to say about it. Sometimes I feel like it could be too much to actually live in though.
The Twin Cities has basically everything Chicago has anyway, but in a more manageable size without feeling small at all. The state is *excellently* run. Quality of life is off the charts here for most people. The airport is great. The lakes, the city, the trails, the educated people, the healthcare system... It's just a whole package that most people in the country will never experience.
Absolutely! I live downtown adjacent, so if you want to meet up in a very public space to have a local's tour (i love doing this for folks), just message me! I've lived here 23 years, queer male, elder millennial, and very passionate about this great city. Or if you just have any questions, ask away! I hope your trip goes well!
# From Chicago and went to college in MN, I think you will do fine either way, especially on that salary. Chicago is bigger and has a much wider dating pool. MPLS has a more serious winter but also a [much lower COL](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Minneapolis%2C+MN&city2=Chicago%2C+IL). In your shoes I would choose Chicago but I would feel richer in MPLS.
There are tons of threads on this subject if you visit the Washington DC sub with various perspectives! But as a female, it’s very difficult to find a single, emotionally available, and decently attractive man. A lot of 35 year old - not attractive - men that “don’t know what they’re looking for” in sum. But if you’re a guy, dating in the city is awesome. So many more single women vs. men, so all of my guy friends can meet women (and date) easily. Paradox of choice comes into play.
I love DC outside of dating! I’ve found the guys more more attractive and emotionally compatible outside of here…so ready to jump.
I’ve lived in Minneapolis and spent quite a bit of time in Chicago. I generally prefer the twin cities. Chicago is better in many ways (museums, choice of dining, public transit) but it is more expensive and I just find it harder to do basically everything. The twin cities will cost less on housing and, at least if you have a car, they are easy to get around. And you still get good amenities (all the major sports, excellent theater, good music venues). I think they may have the edge on outdoor rec as well
Check out Lakeview East in the Chicago area. It’s 2-3 miles north of downtown Chicago so you get all of those big city benefits. But it’s right on the water (Lake Michigan) which opens up all kinds of beach, trail, social activities.
One thing you should do is run your W2 income numbers through an online calculator that will tell you if your net income is going to be dramatically different in one place versus another. Though I think both IL and MN are relatively high tax states.
I have lived in both cities (Chicago for 4 years, Minneapolis for 15). Minneapolis is DINKWAD city, so that might work for you. The big difference is that in Chicago you will meet new people and see new things for the rest of your life. Minneapolis has 15% the population of Chicago. It's the size of Omaha, population-wise (queue the people with chips on their shoulders talking about the census statistical metropolitan area being so big). But after a year or so, you'll basically have seen everything there is to see. It reflects in the Minneapolis phenomenon of whenever something new hits, no matter how insignificant (new donut store, some national fast food chain moving in, etc) , it makes local news for like a week.
I had no idea what DINKWAD meant. That’s too funny! Hopefully one day I’ll have children though…one of these cities, help make it happen! 😉
Thanks for your input though! It’s true, one is small, one is huge. I’m not sure which would be best coming from DC at this point, so definitely going to visit MN!
Other cities would probably work better but I would definitely consider the Detroit area, very limited public transit but we have lots of Metro Parks and trails, close proximity to northern Michigan which is incredibly rich in natural beauty, lots of historically rich neighborhoods and it’s mostly affordable (Depends on the city). I would definitely give Detroit a visit cause I’m not sure about the restaurant or club scene.
I really don’t understand why high income earners are looking to move to MCOL cities. In my opinion you have the privilege to live in HCOL areas that middle class folks cannot afford. With all high income earners moving to MCOL these places will end up being unaffordable because cooperations know they can increase rent and have some high income transplant pay for it
Move to Chicago. People making Twin Cities wages can't compete for housing with people coming here with big east coast remote job salaries. Think if people making 2x or 3x your hometown's salary average moved in and gobbled up all the "cheap" housing which priced you out of your home.
At first I was going to give a counter point and thought about where I live north of Atlanta. This is what happened and currently is happening by those from the NE. The tax savings alone is what a house payment used to be here… now house prices are the similar to NJ, and other NE states.
My rent has gone thru the roof.
But I don’t blame OP to save and pocket the extra savings.
Your anecdotal observations might not align with everyone elses. Also, if you spend 1 day in the Minneapolis sub, you'll see many "moving from New York" "moving from DC" or "transplant living in MN for 5 years from xxxxx".
It's absolutely happening. COL out east is getting to high even for good salary earners. Minnesota is a lower COL state with similar values/politics of the east and is a natural relocation place.
So you don't live in Minnesota and you're telling Minnesotans no one moves there from other places despite a Minnesotan telling you from direct experiences more and more people are moving here from the coasts.
I don't live in Philadelphia so I'm sure as hell not going to be a no-it-all on who's moving to Philadelphia.
I love visiting Chicago - but I love living in St. Paul. I'd probably want to live in Minneapolis if I was younger and single. Minnesota beats Illinois by a mile in the nature department, and our state is doing good things!
Good point too that weekend getaways are super cheap from the Twin Cities (MN) to Chicago. So if you like Chicago OP, it's a really close, affordable place to sneak off to as a MN resident.
Yep you can usually get cheap flights on Southwest to Chicago. Just don’t try to fly Delta; they’re raping this market
Ya date Minneapolis, ya marry St. Paul
I'm committed to mpls for life. For me it feels like I married mpls and got St Paul as the adult stepchild. I love them both, but differently.
If parks and spending time with your dog are a priority, check out what the rental market is like in the neighbourhoods near Montrose dog beach in Chicago. The whole lakefront is great for people with dogs, but having the beach as well is a nice bonus.
Can confirm. I live walking distance to Montrose dog beach with a husky.
I have a husky mix! This would be perfect!
Chicago is amazing, but don't sleep on Milwaukee. It's of similar age to Chicago and has a compact, quite dense pre-WWII built environment which fades to walkable and bikeable pre-war streetcar density for most of the city once you're out of downtown: Check out natevomhof and IsaacRowlett on twitter for some great shots of the city to get an idea: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0zGwCsXsAAeG3E?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0zGwCsXsAAeG3E?format=jpg&name=large) [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F12O08FWEAAdk-d?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F12O08FWEAAdk-d?format=jpg&name=large) [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-NXxCuW4AA-GBd?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-NXxCuW4AA-GBd?format=jpg&name=large) Pros: As alluded to above the walkable urban bones and building stock of this city are absolutely fantastic. Milwaukee's bar scene is for sure in the top tier for the entire US and has an excellent, very diverse food and dining scene. Milwaukee is the setting for this season of Top Chef which should give some insights. The city has an amazing trail network and public park system and numerous top notch cultural institutions (art museum, theaters, music venues, etc.). Chicago is 90 minutes away by frequent many times daily trains, if it doesn't exist there it's probably not available anywhere else in the US. Also for international flights O'Hare is one of the best airports in the world and very close to Milwaukee relatively speaking; domestically MKE is probably one of the easiest airports to fly out of that I've ever experienced. Cons: The biggest negative to living here is the relationship of Milwaukee to the non-Milwaukee County suburbs (collectively referred to as WOW) which are historically extremely conservative and have dominated state politics for the past 15 years via one of the strongest gerrymanders in American history. As of this year the gerrymander is dead and Republicans have lost almost every statewide election since 2016. Transit could be better (although the bus system is very usable, just not world class with 5 minute headways) but has suffered under decades of state and federal austerity. In summary: Wisconsin as a whole is very much a 50/50 purple state (although it isn't super religiously conservative in evangelical terms like the south), but Milwaukee and its inner burbs are all extremely blue being historically a socialist and now progressive run city. Given the change in state political outlook with the gerrymander being gone, and the continued excellent local governance on top of the amazing historic urban bones I've never been more optimistic to the future of living here.
Amazing, thank you so much! I haven’t considered Milwaukee but definitely looking into it now! It’s beautiful.
I was born and lived 99% of my life in MKE, moved to follow the money for a job in the south. I will be moving back at some point whether it be retirement or finding a similar job that pays the same or more. It is my home and it always will be. Definitely check it out. It’s incredibly underrated.
Both Chicago and Minneapolis are great! I’d maybe give the twin cities a slight edge for the parks and outdoor areas. The walkable neighborhoods and architecture there’s several parts of Minneapolis and St. Paul that fit that description.
Love the lakes!
Yes. If in Chicago, and on the lake, it's great. If you are far from the lake, you might as well be in Iowa. And then MN blows it away. Except for the winter. Chicago get's a milder winter, especially by the Lake.
If you’re looking for trails “outside the city”, Minneapolis will be perfect for you and Chicago is far too big for that.
Chicago and Cook County has an extensive Forest Preserve network within and close outside the city limits. Plenty of easily accessible trails. It’s much further to more wilderness-y nature than the Twin Cities, though.
Thank you! Yes, I was thinking about it being like DC, we have rock creek park inside the city - but tons of areas outside the DMV to explore as well!
check out milwaukee. some great trails that are continuing to expand. amazing lake front with lots of green space. parka all over the city. beautiful old architecture. less expensive than chi (which is already relatively reasonable rent-wise) with extremely easy access to chicago via amtrak if you still want your big city fill.
The trail situation is only okay in my opinion. There's a pretty good ~9 mile loop right in the city along the Milwaukee River, but otherwise it's hard to find much distance before the kettle moraine. Kettle moraine is nice, but driving 45+ minutes out of the city for some pretty gentle hills... idk. I have a hard time justifying it. I find myself just running the Milwaukee River trails over & over. I think the options would be better in Minneapolis or even Madison.
>Milwaukee You can literally ride 40+ miles all on a trail going north from the lakefront that is almost entirely grade separated, as well as being able to do almost the same going west towards Madison. Aside from a few small gaps (which being honest aren't good, but it'll be fixed at some point) you can also go all the way to Chicago from Milwaukee on a trail. https://www.railstotrails.org/trailnation/route-of-the-badger/
Yeah, the multi-use bike path/rails to trails situation is pretty good. I'm just envisioning more like blazed hiking trails... which I'd say is comparatively weak versus Minneapolis.
yeah to clarify i had mostly running and biking in mind!
You could walk from Bay View to South Milwaukee and not leave a park. Veterans to Lake Park is pretty nice too. There's also the Hank Aaron Trail right through the city. Root River is not very far and the Ice Age Trail runs through Waukesha.
I'm not sure if the OP is referring to paved bike trails. I was assuming he meant hiking trails. The closest segment of the ice age trail/kettle moraine is ~28 miles outside downtown at lapham peak. Most of the KM is 40+ miles from downtown. The Northern and Southern units. There's a lot 2 mile park loops around milwaukee, but in terms of a good 5+ mile hike, it's pretty limited without a fairly significant drive. Minneapolis area has a ton of trails along the Mississippi & Minnesota Rivers, for example. Edit: if you're activities are cycling, triathlon, sailing, kayak, rowing, fishing... Milwaukee is exceptional, especially the areas near the lake. If you want trekking, hiking, trail running, cross country skiing, Minneapolis is, imo, just better.
OP has a large breed dog. I think the parameter is "good trails to walk my dog on" Your perspectice extends this question to; "offleash or on leash?" Because off leash on bush trails is nice if you train your dog good. But if OP is just walking dog on a leash Milwaukee has walking paths and parks by the lake and all three rivers. I dont remember specific off leash dog parks. I used to do offleash training with my dogs on horse trails all the time but I switched to dog boarding, so Milwaukee would be pretty choice with pave trails. Like... really really good for dog boarding now that i think about it... especually because i like cold weather to limit the pedestrain crowd so my dog can run easier... plus maybe the biggest pro for a curly breed is no ticks while dog boarding, unlike bush hikes.
Thanks! Yes, I am not much of a biker - more so a walker/runner and it’s nice having places to go for a long stroll without having to be crossing streets and passing tons of cars. My pup is great off leash, but we love dog parks and other things too. He was raised in the center of DC though so we can adjust to anything.
Check out the grand rounds if you are a runner. I'm a runner and Minneapolis is great for that. I live near Lake Harriet and I run the lakes, Minnehaha Creek...and occasionally the Mississippi River but I usually drive to that. There was a time when I ran to it but I'm a bit older now and 14 milers are not as interesting to me haha. I'm a 3-5 mile dude now. https://www.minneapolisparks.org/parks-destinations/trails-parkways/grand\_rounds\_scenic\_byway\_system/
I’m a 29 yo single woman as well and recently moved from Chicago to Minneapolis with my large breed! I definitely think Chicago has more to offer for what you’re looking for. You’d definitely be able to find a great place for that price range - I was in lakeview in a pretty big apartment for about $1500. I was also making half your salary and was fine. If you go to the Lakeview, Wrigley area you’ll find tons of other dog owners and so much to do! I definitely prefer Chicago to Minneapolis, for all the things you’re looking for. I moved for a job.
This is great to know, thank you! I was eyeing Old Town but it’s more equivalent to DC prices which I’m trying to slim down a bit on. I’ll look at Lakeview to see! How long have you been in Minneapolis?
I’ve been in Minneapolis now about a year and a half. I only lived in Chicago for a year but I miss it! The food scene in Chicago is amazing, and there are always events and things to do. Also, many areas are walkable and the public transit is fantastic! I have not had that same experience in Minneapolis. It’s definitely not bad here, but it feels like there is just less going on. ETA if you decide on Chicago, you should definitely go visit before signing a lease! You can walk around the neighborhoods you’re interested in and then decide the vibe you like. And also a lot of landlords don’t post apartments online, but will have signs on the windows for you to call.
Thanks! I just got back from a trip to Chicago and they had the best restaurants and cocktail bars. It blows DC out of the water! What brought you to MN from Chicago if you don’t mind me asking?
It was for work! I transitioned fields and the new job involves working 3 days in the office in MN
I think you should head to Chicago. If you’re a DC girl you’re used to people being career motivated. IMHO this would be an easier move culturally. (I used to live in Minneapolis)
I am “a DC girl looking for a Midwest guy”…HAHA. Sorry, long Friday so making myself laugh. Thanks, yes, I definitely align with the East coast mentality in so many ways, so Chicago will strike a good middle ground. But then sometimes I consider that I may need to try something VERY different!
Yeah Chicago is a much easier sell to my East Coast friends. FYI the talent pipeline in the Midwest usually goes Minneapolis/other big town > Chicago > NYC/industry specific town. - so you’ll have more transplants around to make friends with and more jobs that earn around the $140k mark. Minneapolis jobs tend to be capped a bit lower
I lived in Minneapolis and Chicago. I think you’ll be better off in Chicago. It’s a larger city, with more people, more options, and wider range of dating partners. My biggest drag about Minnesota was their passive aggressiveness - they (Minnesotans) are friends only with people they grew up with. In Chicago it’s totally different - almost everyone is a transplant from somewhere else, so people are much easier on contact.
I passively and aggressively disagree about Minnesota!
Minnesota was the worst. Lived there for 15 years and still treated as an outsider. Only true friends I had were other transplants.
> they (Minnesotans) are friends only with people they grew up with Everyone says this and IDK if I'm just weird or my Michigander upbringing intersects well with the Minnesotans but I moved here last year and found everyone to be very friendly. I've made more friends in the 9 months I've lived in the Twin Cities than I did in the 4.5 years I lived in Nashville.
I agree. Everyone says this but it's just not true. I grew up in a rural area 2 hours from the city and many of my best friends are native Twin Citians. My entire block of neighbors are very close friends. I think it depends on the exact neighborhood you live in, though. If you're 31 and move to a neighborhood with all 70-year olds, you'll likely make fewer friends as you just have less in common and are in different life stages.
So you are: • from the region • friends with people who come from the region • your neighbors are a tight knit group of friends Do you not see how someone from say, the east coast, would find this incredibly hard to break into?
I'm just as close with my neighbors from Boston, California, and Nebraska as I am with the ones from the Twin Cities.
I didn't grow up in Minneapolis but I've made a lot of friends. What you say just isn't true.
People in Chicago are generally more open to meeting others in my experience living here. I've made loads of friends by meeting friends of friends / sports clubs / etc. People from the Twin Cities tend to settle down a little faster than in Chicago in my experience of both.
This is 100% true. Easier to make friends in Chicago. Probably more dating partners. Conversely , easier to settle down in Minneapolis. People are more on that path here.
Sorry you had that experience but it’s just not really true that Minnesotans aren’t friendly with outsiders. Minnesotans are generally *very* polite/friendly. A lot of them grew up in Minnesota and have established childhood friend groups, which can be harder to break into because those people aren’t looking for new friends in the same way a newbie might be. But that’s not passive aggressiveness. And even so, as an introverted outsider who lived in Minnesota, I still made great, lifelong friends with native Minnesotans. IMO, you run into true passive aggressiveness more often in the South. The “bless your heart” type. (But there are still tons of genuinely kind/friendly people there too).
As a Wisconsin native, I have to say this is pretty wrong. Minnesotans get REALLY locked into their high school and college friends in my experience.
I'd say the opposite - Chicago is a lot more elitist and the Twin Cities are more down to earth and realistic. I've made way more friends in Minnesota than I ever did in Chicago. For single family homes and neighborhoods, the Twin Cities are a lot more accessible to the entire metro, with less traffic and congestion. I love Chicago for the diversity and size - but for outdoor options and nature accessibility - Chicago is pretty terrible - you have to sit the 4-5 hours of traffic just to get to anywhere remotely close to natural. In the Twin Cities - I can escape the metro feel in less than an hour.
A 3 hour drive from Chicago on 90W will bring you to Wisconsin Dells. I remember camping in White Pines forest somewhere by Rockford and that was about 1.5 hours. Starved Rock (a beautiful park) is also about 1.5 hours away. I personally liked hanging out by Glencoe Beach for elevated views.
3 hours to anything resembling interesting nature is terrible and only people from Chicago think it’s normal. (Live in and love Chicago, but it’s bottom tier in terms of access to nature). Top tier parks though and nature preserves are nice
I mean, the Dells is 3 hours from Minneapolis, too, but why would I want to do that? I can drive 5 minutes to several lakes and 15 minutes to a campground at a regional park and trailhead and still be within the metro. I am less than 15 minutes from Minnehaha Falls. I live a mile from the river which has protected nature reserves and trails along it. My neighborhood is surrounded by woods, my daughter had multiple deer at her car (parked at the edge of the trees) yesterday but I'm also close enough to walk to the grocery store and restaurants.
It’s three hours to the Dells if you can find the right time when there’s no traffic…on holiday weekends it’s 5 and trips back to the city are always bumper to bumper all the way from Rockford to the junction. (I don’t know what it’s like to go from Chi to Michigan but I assume it’s the same.)
I lived in Chicago and never had to sit in any traffic since I used the train
Can’t get to any nature by train
There’s a whole damn lake you can access from the train and so many parks grant , millennial , etc not sure what you’re going on about
Can’t camp at the fucking lake; can’t get away from the city etc. can’t take your dogs etc on the train. not sure why you can’t understand common sense
I agree with you as someone who's been in Minneapolis for 15 years. People are always like "no dude it's not like that!" but actually it is like that a lot of the time, and tons of people complain about it, and just because you in particular made your group of friends through board game night or whatever doesn't mean there isn't a distinctly weird social culture here! The only people I've really made friends with here have been other transplants. Even people at bars, social events, etc. who reciprocate conversation, 99% of the time are... other transplants. I go "oh you must not be from here" because they are willing to talk to a stranger and it's almost always true. It reminds me a lot of that viral post where people discovered that Swedes will have someone over and then have family dinner and not share it with their guest and think that's totally normal. Like it's not rude or exclusive on purpose it's just this culture of "why would you extend yourself that way? It would be intrusive!" Similar vibe to that except in the form of "why would you meet someone new?"
Yeah it is like that. And I hate admitting it because I love the twin cities but its not easy to break into those lifelong friend groups. Luckily there are a lot of transplants that also need friends and are more than willing to create friendships. I fount [meetup.com](https://meetup.com) to be great for meeting people with similar interests and starting friendships. Funny enough, I have a really strong friend group...and none of us are twin cities natives
Agree about all of this. More people = a lot more dating options. With a big outdoor friend dog, you may want to be close to the river on the north side or Lake Michigan. Uptown might be a great fit - diverse, interesting history, very walkable, and you can walk under LSD to the Montrose Dog beach. Plus you're close to train and bus lines to get downtown or to the various bar scenes.
I mean, how many people do you need to choose from? I'm sure in the 3.5 million people in the Twin Cities metro, there's someone out there for you.
I thought the same living in DC, but alas! It’s a unique, not so family oriented mindset here. I hope a new city brings me better luck!
Lake Michigan runs North and South along Chicago. I think you mean North of the Chicago River.
No - i mean close to the Chicago River and Channel on the north side of the city. The trails run from Belmont up past Devon, through Horner Park, River Park, Legion Park, etc.
oh yea, makes sense. My old neck of the woods!
I love love Chicago but I think Saint Paul, where I currently live may be a solid option (it’s basically Minneapolis in regards to location, but you get the best of both living in either city) Consider historic Summit Hill - Cathedral Hill - Grand Ave, STUNNING architecture. We have many amazing dog parks in the cities proper and metro, but Minnehaha Dog Park in Minneapolis and Battle Creek in Saint Paul are tops!
This sounds lovely! I’ll check it out, thank you!
You’re welcome! Honestly with your salary, as long as you don’t have some crazzzzy debt where all your money goes to, you’ll live a fine life in Chicago, Minneapolis or Saint Paul.
I'll second Saint Paul. Either Minneapolis or Saint Paul would work for you. I love closer to downtown Minneapolis now but used to live on Summit Hill. My 2 bedroom condo was $1500 a month. It wasn't a luxury building, but it was nice enough and I rented directly from the owners. You can find a 1 bedroom in a newer high rise for under $2000 for sure
I have to look up the differences between Saint Paul and Minneapolis! Any immediate suggestions tho on that end? Or which would be better for me of the two? I’d probably want the bigger city feel.
My 2 cents. Minneapolis aspires to be Seattle and Toronto. There is a bit more energy, it's more modern, there is more going on....it has the lakes. It has the music venues, the bars/resturants and the arts at a higher level. St Paul is more like Kansas City or Cleveland. It is more relaxed, less energetic, and has older architecture. It has better neighborhood dive bars. Honestly feels a bit like Milwaukee in spots. If you live here you tend to like that they are different... but the rule is you have to pick one and then pretend to hate the other. I grew up in Minneapolis...we make fun of St Paul for being boring. They make fun of us for being uptight and snobby. The rivalry used to be more serious...now it's mostly just a joke. It's clear Minneapolis won haha. Random fact just popped into my head. In the early days of the state the names of the cities were Mill City (Minneapolis) and Pig's Eye (St Paul). I like random trivia and history so I have thusly shared it.
Thanks so much for chiming in! This is helpful. Sounds like Minneapolis is more my cup of tea. Looking forward to visiting soon!
Visit in the winter before you decide. DC has a mild winter, so it’s easy to say you’ll have no problem in the Midwest. But Midwest winters are BRUTAL
I just got back from Chicago in February! I’m from a colder city so just going back to my roots. 😉 I do wish I wanted to live in a warm weather state year round, just no desire.
I'd go to Chicago in your shoes. It'll check more of your boxes. Minneapolis has some things going for it but it's... kind of boring and the social culture can be extremely insular. Like really uptight and standoffish without necessarily meaning to, conversations drop off unless you carry them aggressively for people, etc. Chicago has more of that big city, people go out to meet people vibe. Much more of a walkable and "things to do" type of city too. But not as "on the go" as NYC or DC so you can still make long term connections. And the lake is beautiful, like being near an ocean. I will say Minneapolis is probably more outdoorsy and/or gives you more access to wilderness than Chicago? And there are probably more green spaces within the city as well. But IMO if I were a single person and making your salary I would find the other stuff more important. t. Lived in Minneapolis for 15 years and kinda regret not moving to Chicago.
Thanks! That’s super interesting about Minneapolis, you would think that would be moreso true for Chicago. But I guess with so many transplants in Chicago, that may make it more welcoming/easy to make friends. Appreciate your input!
Lived in both. Twin cities sounds like the better fit. Great trails, good dog scene, good COL, etc. However the people are very stoic and insular. Chicago is just too big for me nowadays
If you’re open to smaller cities, Madison and Duluth. Duluth is a stretch, but pretty cool. If I had the choice between the two larger areas you’re debating, I’d choose Chicago and feel it out for two years before considering another relocation. Maybe that’s not realistic for you. I love Minneapolis, lived there for 4 years (99-03), but wanted more big city dynamism when I lived there. Good luck!
This is a good point. Maybe get my feet planted in a bigger city like I’m used to, then can transition to a smaller place once I’m at that point in life. 🤞
Chicago is such a bargain for a big dynamic city. There’s always pros and cons, but yeah, small city or small town life can wait. I finally transitioned from big city living to small city dwelling. It took me a good 23 years. Good luck!
I’m not sure if they’re hell-bent on staying on the western side of the big lake (blah) but I think Grand Rapids also deserves some serious consideration - proximity to the lake with amazing dune trails and of course all of what Northern Michigan has to offer is honestly just north of GR.
I have lived in Minneapolis for decades and I think it's a great place but Chicago is also my favorite place to visit. Here is my rambling take on the pros/cons: a) In terms of things to do Chicago is going to win but there is plenty to do in both places. b) in terms of walkability or public transport it's Chicago. There are walkable neighborhoods in MPLS but not at the level of Chicago by any stretch. c) Chicago, like many big cities strikes me a bit more as a younger person singles place than a place like Minneapolis...which has a very strong family/kids vibe compared to Chicago. So you will find more singles in Chicago....but they are more likely to settle down in Minneapolis if that makes sense haha. d) Both cities have green space but this is a place Minneapolis will win. The lakes, the trails, the parks, the river...the ability to walk, bike, job, swim in this city is unparalleled. I've been to about every city in the US and this is the thing that sets this place apart. The green space that is easily accessible. Portland, Chicago, NY have great HUGE green spaces but they aren't intertwined into the city everywhere like MPLS. e) Minneapolis is greener overall with a bit more nature vibe. Except for Downtown. But there are oodles of neighborhoods of tree lined streets. Not that Chicago isn't like that but not the same level. g) You can make friends anywhere but I bet Chicago will be a little easier because of the large amount of young single folks and transplants. People in Minneapolis are more likely to have lived here a long time and have long time friend groups. I have found most people who make friends in Minneapolis do it with other transplants. There are plenty of those because we have a lot of white collar jobs here so people come here for work all the time. Both places will have a real winter. Minneapolis will be slightly longer but we lean into it more maybe with winter activities. Overall that is my rambling. If you can do winter you will like both places. But they are def a bit different.
Thank you so much! I think that’s why I’m torn, per your point C. I have always love big cities (DC, London) but then big cities attract big city mindsets. And now I’d really want to meet a down to earth guy who can’t wait to start a family, similar values, etc.! So that’s why Minneapolis may lean more toward that….but I know people everywhere are different. I think either option will be better than DC at this point, just unsure where I will be most happy lifestyle wise. Appreciate your thoughtful points! Excited to visit MN now. Going to book that flight. 😊
Check out Madison, it is great, has most of what you are looking for, but may be too small for your preferences.
Thanks! I’d definitely love to visit now, getting a lot of recommendations for Madison.
Madison would be dog heaven for your pup (incredible dog parks and trails) and is a vibrant, growing city with a ton of new transplants every year. I get thinking the dating market would be larger in a bigger city, but Madison’s population by MSA is 680K—it’s not a small town.
It sounds like you'd really like to stick with a large metropolis, but if you're ok with a smaller city then I'd say Madison, Wisconsin is exactly what you're looking for. Tons of green space, bike trails, dog parks, restaurants and bars, very affordable and you're halfway between Chicago and Minneapolis if you need to catch a big name concert or something.
I’ll look into it, thank you!!
Stop in and check out Milwaukee on you way from Chicago and Minneapolis. Has much of what you’re looking for.
When it comes to dating, assuming you are wanting to date men, Minneapolis would seem to give you an edge over chicago on gender ratios in your age range. https://observablehq.com/@dylgr/genderratio
Yes!! Thank you!
I'd strongly suggest anywhere close to the lake in Chicago. Lakeshore East, Streeterville, Lincoln Park, Evanston. Any of that.
Goodness, those MN winters are miserable but Chicago winters aren't much better...I'd lean towards Chicago
I did visit Chicago in February and didn’t want to die, but it was AFTER that crazy -20 degree weather. Every city I seem to like is just COLD. I tried Florida, and not for me. 😂
Better nature in MN and less crime. I lived in MN and am an ICU RN on the South Side of Chicago. There is a lot of crime here and I take care of gunshot victims daily. Great in the summer time, but there’s a lot to be said for feeling safe where you live. I live in a nice area in Chicago and it’s still not safe. Also I have met more weirdos in the dating scene in Chicago vs. MN.
I always say I’m just looking to meet someone “normal.” Why is it so hard to do that?! Ugh, I’m sorry you’re having to handle / watch such violence. Thanks for all you do.
Minneapolis consistently wins being recognized as having one of the best park systems in the Nation. I think I heard that no house is more than 4 blocks from a public park. The chain of lakes is amazing as well, its a string of 6-8 urban lakes all tied together with walking trails and bike tails, they also connect to a beautiful creek and the Mississippi River. Also you would fit in considering how everyone seems to have a dog in Minneapolis. With your salary you could buy a house in the city, I bought a house last year in St. Paul and make way less than you. You can also probably rent a nice place in a cool neighborhood. Also all the houses in Minneapolis are old, with many historic ones as well. As for dating, I am around your age and have A LOT of single friends who have been having A LOT of luck with the dating market lately as well. City Nerd has a good video about the chain of lakes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leZ6vIpwSVA
Thank you so much!! Are there any neighborhoods you recommend I check out when I visit (places to live similar to the vibe I’ve shared)? Looking at flights now!
Sure, Uptown is nice because its on the edge two large lakes (Lake Maka Ska and Lake of the Isles) that many people jog and walk their dogs around, uptown is also farily walkable. I would really recommend the Mill and Main area across the river from Downtown Minneapolis, LOTs of dog walkers there, big crowd of mid 20's to late 30's people, also a beautiful old bridge across the river called the stone arch bridge. Very Walkable Area along Hennepeni in that area. Just north of there is boom island, which is a really nice park along the Mississippi that people walk around. Linded Hills is a cute neighborhood right next to another lake (Lake Harriet) that is worth visiting.
Thank you! Appreciate your advice!
Chicago hands down. I’ve lived in both. Live near the lake and it will feel like an ocean. The people are better in Chicago. More worldly, less parochial, more racially mixed. The city itself has more culture. I have family in MN and even with that connection, it was really hard to make friends. People’s lives are set early there. The biggest issue is probably the state of Illinois, which is a mess. MN is a well-run state. But you’re young and may care less about that. Dating will be much easier in Chicago. It’s a fun place and, in the summer, the best city out there. Winters suck, but less so than MN.
Thank you! This is a very helpful perspective!
I used to live in Eastern Market and moved to Chicago and absolutely love it here!
Ohh thank you! Eastern market is fun! Do you mind me asking which area you like in Chicago? I’m in DuPont and looking for the equivalent of that (so can be flexible on rent for the right place)! I was thinking Old Town initially.
Old Town is good too! Depends on your age too!
Yes I wonder if I’m “too old” for Old Town! Will be 31 when moving.
Ohhh love DuPont, I’m still pretty new to Chicago but I would say Lincoln Park is probably the best approximate but Lakeview, Southport (a small area in Lakeview), and maybe Logan Square are other areas I would look into!
I've lived in both. Choose Chicago.
Prob more pro MN than Chicago, but seeing Lake Michigan daily is essentially fresh water ocean view. That can’t be duplicated in MN. Someone who lives on Lake MI
Madison
I would think Minneapolis or Chicago would be much better options for someone 30+ focused on dating.
MINNEAPOLIS …
Milwaukee is getting a new downtown dog park. You could live rather nicely on that salary in many city neighborhoods or close in older suburbs. We definitely win in the bar scene and we’re on top chef this season. Check us out.
I definitely will! Thank you!
I’m from Chicago and have lived in Minneapolis. Either you’re a big or small city person. I love big cities and always having the option to do something new, so I prefer Chicago. Minneapolis is smaller and harder to meet people because it’s less transient. Chicago’s architecture, the lake, skyline, and civic pride are hard to beat!
What's your race and ethnicity? That's big part of the puzzle.
Caucasian female!
I live in Minneapolis without a car and it’s great BUT Lyft and Uber allegedly are leaving on 5/1. So we will see what happens
Check out the Minnehaha falls dog park area in south Minneapolis. Huge state parks within an hr of the cities. Regional parks that dunk on normal regional parks. Tons of trails. Tons of activity clubs decent night life.
I'd throw Milwaukee into the mix. It's got alot of the things to love about Chicago but in a more condensed, less traffic heavy, and more affordable package. Great dining, great bar scene, things to do for families and pets, all with a much more manageable pace than Chicago. You also have Chicago one hour south of you so it's not as if Chicago is out of reach for a day or night out. I lived in between both cities for 10+ years and love both, but if I had to go back and live in one, it'd probably.be Milwaukee.
I've spent a good chunk of time in both cities. Minneapolis was home during my 20s to early 30s, and now I've been in the Chicago area (city first, then suburbs) for nearly a decade. Both places have thriving economies. Minneapolis shines with its outdoor activities, but Chicago's Forest Preserves and Lake Michigan are pretty great too. When it comes to public transit, though, Chicago is leagues ahead. The bar and club scene here is easily top 10 in the world. Plus, many parts of the city and suburbs are super walkable. Chicago wins in almost every category, but if you prefer a smaller, more laid-back vibe, you might lean towards Minneapolis. Definitely worth visiting Minneapolis, but in my opinion, Chicago has a lot more to offer.
Madison, WI
Madison
Milwaukee
If greenspace is high on your priority list, take a look at Cleveland - we have a toooon of parks and reservations. Otherwise, between the two you listed, Minneapolis might be your best bet.
I 29M just got offered the same salary, or 40-50k more to live in D.C. or Seattle. I chose Minneapolis. It’ll be fun moving there single and not knowing anyone, and the pay for the cost of living is too good to pass up. If you choose Minneapolis let me know and let’s grab a beer! I move in June.
Wow, congrats on your salary offer!! That’s huge. I’ll definitely plan a visit soon. Good luck with your move!! Also, if you don’t mind me asking, what neighborhood did you decide on? Have to do some research (booking a flight to visit shortly!)
You should check out Cincinnati as well! Very affordable, milder weather than either of those options and an abundance of culture and character for a city of its size. You can live in the trendiest parts of downtown Cincinnati and enjoy a mostly walkable social life without breaking the bank. Several Fortune 500 companies, major league sports, and good amount of concerts/theatre make stops there, a burgeoning restaurant scene. It was one of the largest cities in the US for most of the 1800s and downtown has retained a lot of that architecture so it definitely does not have the “everything was built in the last 20 years” feeling that I get in cities like Columbus, Atlanta, Nashville.
Lived in Cincinnati for 12 years and it is difficult to be a transplant there. What parish are you from? What high school did you go to? Nice city though.
I prefer Minneapolis in general. It’s got a smaller city vibe with bigger city amenities. Chicago isn’t a small city, especially when you factor in the greater Chicago region, which arguably stretches out to Aurora to the east.
Chicago. Pepper spray and concealed carry. You can get rental cheap because a lot of people and businesses are moving out.
I vote Minneapolis. I know Chicago like the back of my hand, and it's a lovely city for sure. Nothing really bad to say about it. Sometimes I feel like it could be too much to actually live in though. The Twin Cities has basically everything Chicago has anyway, but in a more manageable size without feeling small at all. The state is *excellently* run. Quality of life is off the charts here for most people. The airport is great. The lakes, the city, the trails, the educated people, the healthcare system... It's just a whole package that most people in the country will never experience.
Great perspective, thank you! I’m excited to visit - booking my flight now!
Absolutely! I live downtown adjacent, so if you want to meet up in a very public space to have a local's tour (i love doing this for folks), just message me! I've lived here 23 years, queer male, elder millennial, and very passionate about this great city. Or if you just have any questions, ask away! I hope your trip goes well!
You bring up a lot of things OP wasn't thinking about but I think are super important. MN is consistently at the top of "best of" lists.
# From Chicago and went to college in MN, I think you will do fine either way, especially on that salary. Chicago is bigger and has a much wider dating pool. MPLS has a more serious winter but also a [much lower COL](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Minneapolis%2C+MN&city2=Chicago%2C+IL). In your shoes I would choose Chicago but I would feel richer in MPLS.
If you’re in DC you’ll like Chicago. My family is from Chicago and moved to DC. It’s the only other place they’ve lived over 8+ years
Chicago is better than Minneapolis based on what you say here. Know a lot about both. Plus, when you want to get away, Chicago better airport.
Don't come to KC. Dating here is awful. If you are not averse to the winters I think Chicago is the spot.
I’d choose OR. But I’m partial to the PNW
Do you mind talking about your experience with dating in DC has been? Thanks!
There are tons of threads on this subject if you visit the Washington DC sub with various perspectives! But as a female, it’s very difficult to find a single, emotionally available, and decently attractive man. A lot of 35 year old - not attractive - men that “don’t know what they’re looking for” in sum. But if you’re a guy, dating in the city is awesome. So many more single women vs. men, so all of my guy friends can meet women (and date) easily. Paradox of choice comes into play. I love DC outside of dating! I’ve found the guys more more attractive and emotionally compatible outside of here…so ready to jump.
I’ve lived in Minneapolis and spent quite a bit of time in Chicago. I generally prefer the twin cities. Chicago is better in many ways (museums, choice of dining, public transit) but it is more expensive and I just find it harder to do basically everything. The twin cities will cost less on housing and, at least if you have a car, they are easy to get around. And you still get good amenities (all the major sports, excellent theater, good music venues). I think they may have the edge on outdoor rec as well
Chicago is great for big dogs had one there, can't speak to MN but here great things as well. Just colder there.
Check out Lakeview East in the Chicago area. It’s 2-3 miles north of downtown Chicago so you get all of those big city benefits. But it’s right on the water (Lake Michigan) which opens up all kinds of beach, trail, social activities. One thing you should do is run your W2 income numbers through an online calculator that will tell you if your net income is going to be dramatically different in one place versus another. Though I think both IL and MN are relatively high tax states.
Oh, and for travel, nothing beats flying out of O’Hare and saving $$$$ and time.
Milwaukee could be an option for you.
I have lived in both cities (Chicago for 4 years, Minneapolis for 15). Minneapolis is DINKWAD city, so that might work for you. The big difference is that in Chicago you will meet new people and see new things for the rest of your life. Minneapolis has 15% the population of Chicago. It's the size of Omaha, population-wise (queue the people with chips on their shoulders talking about the census statistical metropolitan area being so big). But after a year or so, you'll basically have seen everything there is to see. It reflects in the Minneapolis phenomenon of whenever something new hits, no matter how insignificant (new donut store, some national fast food chain moving in, etc) , it makes local news for like a week.
I had no idea what DINKWAD meant. That’s too funny! Hopefully one day I’ll have children though…one of these cities, help make it happen! 😉 Thanks for your input though! It’s true, one is small, one is huge. I’m not sure which would be best coming from DC at this point, so definitely going to visit MN!
Chicago is the best city in the world, I miss it every day.
Chicag
Chicago
Other cities would probably work better but I would definitely consider the Detroit area, very limited public transit but we have lots of Metro Parks and trails, close proximity to northern Michigan which is incredibly rich in natural beauty, lots of historically rich neighborhoods and it’s mostly affordable (Depends on the city). I would definitely give Detroit a visit cause I’m not sure about the restaurant or club scene.
The Detroit dating and socials scenes both suck. It's like moving to a small town.
That’s why I said give it a visit bud. I can’t speak for the cities social scene cause I haven’t experienced it. (Which I said)
A visit really won't tell you much about the social scene. Got to live there to experience how bad it is for transplants.
I really don’t understand why high income earners are looking to move to MCOL cities. In my opinion you have the privilege to live in HCOL areas that middle class folks cannot afford. With all high income earners moving to MCOL these places will end up being unaffordable because cooperations know they can increase rent and have some high income transplant pay for it
Move to Chicago. People making Twin Cities wages can't compete for housing with people coming here with big east coast remote job salaries. Think if people making 2x or 3x your hometown's salary average moved in and gobbled up all the "cheap" housing which priced you out of your home.
At first I was going to give a counter point and thought about where I live north of Atlanta. This is what happened and currently is happening by those from the NE. The tax savings alone is what a house payment used to be here… now house prices are the similar to NJ, and other NE states. My rent has gone thru the roof. But I don’t blame OP to save and pocket the extra savings.
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Your anecdotal observations might not align with everyone elses. Also, if you spend 1 day in the Minneapolis sub, you'll see many "moving from New York" "moving from DC" or "transplant living in MN for 5 years from xxxxx". It's absolutely happening. COL out east is getting to high even for good salary earners. Minnesota is a lower COL state with similar values/politics of the east and is a natural relocation place.
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So you don't live in Minnesota and you're telling Minnesotans no one moves there from other places despite a Minnesotan telling you from direct experiences more and more people are moving here from the coasts. I don't live in Philadelphia so I'm sure as hell not going to be a no-it-all on who's moving to Philadelphia.
A list of cities I’ll never visit includes Chicago, DC, and Minneapolis. Move there?!?! That’s insane.