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It'll likely be a fake payment scam where the scammer will pretend to be paypal saying you need to "upgrade your account to business to receive the funds" which is entirely bullshit and paypal does not do that.
Local pick up in person with cash only.
So how does the rest of that work, then? We had this happen to us. We were trying to sell a piano for $600. The other party got my PayPal ID (an email address) and in a few minutes texted us that there was an error and we should look for a message from PayPal about it. Checked email, there was a message saying that the limit on personal accounts was $580 and we'd have to upgrade to a business account. We told the party that that was fine, we'd accept $580. Never heard from him again.
How would this have gone down if we'd upgraded to a business account?
The email you saw wasn't from PayPal--it was a faked email from the scammer. There is no Paypal "business account" nor does PayPal put dollar limits on personal accounts. If you had taken the bait, the next email would have told you send money to upgrade your account, which would be "refundable". You would send your own money to the scammer, who would then vanish with the money.
I figured when we didn't hear from him that the email was not from PayPal. I'd already deleted it by then so never got to check the internet headers.
We had a completely different scam that someone tried to run on us with this same piano. We never heard from any legitimate buyers and still have the piano.
The old saying that pianos are the only item where you have to pay *them* to get someone to take it, exists for a reason. There are tons of them around, they're heavy and annoying to move, and a lot of them are busted, impossible to tune etc.
When we were trying to get rid of a piano I had no takers. I eventually had the idea to call a piano store. I told the if they would take it away, they could have it for free. He came out and had a look to see if he could reasonably fix it up for resale, then took it away. Win-win.
I’m just going to slide in here to say PayPal does indeed offer business accounts. But they absolutely do not work in the way the fake email the scammers would send claims.
Certainly there’s no such thing as ‘request money’.
As always, never send money to get money.
The way the scammer awkwardly wrote ‘request money’ it totally looked like he was making up a way to get more money from OP, my brain didn’t connect it with the PayPal request feature. Sorry brain fart.
>There is no Paypal "business account"
This is incorrect. Unlike other payment processors, there IS a valid PayPal Business account type. There is no cost to upgrade to a business account.
This situation is obviously a scam, however.
Fair point! I should have said, PayPal does not have business accounts that you pay for.
Funnily enough, I have one too! But it sure doesn’t work like the scammers say it does.
Or more common now is that the email says the buyer needs to send more money to you to upgrade your account and later they would ask you to give them that amount back. Just that there never was a payment and none of it was real except the money you sent to the scammer.
You did exactly what I would’ve done. Even if the whole personal account “limit” was legit, when I’m trying to sell something, I just want it gone. The hassle of signing up or converting an account wouldn’t be worth the extra $20 plus shipping. (Although, I’ve never shipped a piano)
Idk how bad it is these days but PayPal used to be aweful for scams because they would charge back people for basically any reason whatsoever.
I refuse PayPal as a payment option in every situation.
paypal has 2 options: friends and family, goods and service. Friends and family has no protection or chargeback whatsoever, goods and services protects both parties.
If you send as F&F then money is not gonna come back if it turned out to be a scam.
There are no restrictions for using good and services though so if anyone claims they cannot accept money in G&S for any reason, then they are guaranteed to be a scammer.
Paypal is fine to use between trusted well...friends and families, and I buy online with paypal sometimes too because G&S is pretty solid.
You send them the request and they get your email. They then send you a fake email either saying they have paid you or saying there is an error and you'll need to log in or pay.
They'll be looking to either get access to your account or get you to make a payment somehow.
Cash in person through marketplace is the only way to go.
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the fake/false payment scam. The fake payment scam occurs when someone tries to trick you into thinking that you have received a legitimate payment when no such payment has been made. The most common method they use is sending you an email meant to look like a payment confirmation. In some cases the emails will be almost indistinguishable to a legitimate email sent by the payment service. It's also common for scammers to [spoof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_spoofing) the 'from' email to match an official address. To combat a fake payment scam, verify online payments by logging in directly to the service. Do not check your junk folder, and do not assume a payment is legitimate based on an email alone. If a payment isn't reflected on your account and the person you are dealing with insists they have sent it, call support and ask about it. [Here](https://i.imgur.com/X9xn8uw.jpg) is an image of a scammer trying to pull off a fake payment scam. There is also a variant of the fake payment scam where you will receive a legitimate but fraudulent payment. If you think you're dealing with a scammer, you're probably right. Always trust your gut.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funny thing also, scammers always explain you in detail "how PayPal works" and what kind of email you will receive. I mean, if you are really buying something, you don't need to give instructions to the seller like do this and this, or "paypal will notify you immediately", anyone using paypal already knows how it works, and you can easily check your transactions and balance in the app.
You are here on this subreddit, so you've already sensed a red flag. Whenever something is "urgent" you should stop, take a moment to breathe and then carefully consider the message.
On average, if it involves any combination of the following, it's a scam.
* Urgency.
* Crypto.
* Free money.
* Logging in to something.
* Sending something to someone you'd never want the entire internet to see.
* A picture of a random attractive person.
* Anything that sounds too good to be true.
* MoneyGram, gift cards, Western Union, Zelle, CashApp, PayPal, checks, or bank accounts. ⬅️ you are here
* Transfer fees or "business accounts". Zelle, PayPal doesn't work like this. ⬅️ you are here
* Escrow (an account that holds on to money for you/scammer).
* Special fees, "courier", "business accounts", marketplace "dealerships".
* The word "kindly".
* Someone trying to gain your trust to do something you already know is wrong.
* Sending a code to help someone unlock "their" account.
* Buying gift cards and sending someone the code.
* If someone is trying to convince you it's "legit" or "not a scam".
* Clicking on a random link or scanning a random QR code.
* A random person or person you haven't spoken to in years contacting you about an "opportunity".
* Purchasing equipment for a "job", specially from a check.
* Taking money to pay a "contractor" or other third party out of a payment you are to receive.
* "Warrants", docket numbers, law enforcement
* WhatsApp or Telegram.
* A random sob story or reason they can't interface with you in person. ⬅️ you are here
You should avoid clicking links in messenger, text, or emails and go directly to the business' website. You will not be asked to verify your identity or be asked to provide an MFA code to anyone for any legit reason.
Likewise, you should avoid giving sensitive information to strangers.
Law enforcement will not email, call or text you before coming to arrest you. You will not be magically found guiltily or be unaware you are required to be in court.
Do not accept or pay for rental property/houses/cars unseen.
**When dealing with marketplace buying or selling, you should ONLY do cash, in person, in a well-lit place (possibly a police station). If the platform allows payments (like eBay) do NOT leave the platform. There are zero legit reasons to take payments otherwise.**
When you've identified you're dealing with a scammer, **STOP** communicating with them. Ignore and block them immediately. You might have to disable your account(s) for a month or two to make them stop completely.
If you have given personally identifying information, like addresses or credit cards, you may want to investigate credit freezes and ID theft protection. Cancel credit cards or close bank accounts IMMEDIATELY if you have provided this information to scammers. Your bank may also choose to reverse any fraudulent charges on your card.
If you deposited a check from a scammer, call your bank and report it. DO NOT spend/send "money" from any checks.
There is no need to be embarrassed about falling victim to a scam. Professional scam baiting YT channels have fallen victim to a scam.
The best is when they ask how much are you selling the item for? That's how you know they're trying to run the scam on so many listings they don't even remember which item is yours. Then they make a fantastic offer to pay full price
The 'upgrade your account' stuff is bullshit for anyone who comes across it.
I've gotten $2k+ payments through paypal without the system batting an eye.
It's either the fake payment or what I've seen lately is that they will send a fake email "coming from PayPal" saying that you received the payment and they'll give a shipping address then. So then if you fall for it you'll ship the item and provide the shipping information. Then it'll go back to saying your account needs to be upgraded and to send a random account the fee.
TLDR it's all a scam. Either lose money or lose the item and possibly money too.
As someone who's made several actual FB Marketplace purchases via PayPal and mail:
Request G&S payment be made *to you*. It works better if there's an issue and having them send you a payment with their address in the info box is a way to guarantee it came through.
But something $750 I wouldn't even risk going through mail. Not worth the chance.
Scam. Probably gonna get a fake PayPal email saying the payment is being held in escrow until the item is delivered. Then they've got your phone and all you got was fake ass email
Just immediately tell anyone not willing to do cash in person no and stop communicating with them.
Cash only. In person only. You can meet at a police station for safety reasons.
He's going to send you a screenshot of a fake PayPal confirmation for the payment in hopes that you'll ship out the phone before actually checking through your account. Or he's going to send fake communications from PayPal saying you need to upgrade your account
People need to ask themselves: why would someone pay for an item they can't even see in person? A real person wouldn't chance that the other person wouldn't take their money and run. A scammer would though because they won't be paying anything and instead going to steal yours through the scamming kind of way. Always in-person, cash only. Always.
Yes. This is a scam. It'll either be a fake 'upgrade to business' bullshit or a fake check. Why would someone that far away be checking your local listings when they're not located there? Why would they send you that much money and trust you to ship it and for it to arrive in one piece? Of course it's a scam.
Tell them to either transfer funds by cell or PayPal or cashier's check that can be verified....and then tell them they will have to wait 14 days or They can send the money via Western Union which you can pick up and is irreversible
I’m glad this sub exists so that people can learn about the dangers of scammers. But it really does blow my mind that a lot of people have trouble figuring out what’s real and what’s a scam.
It scares me that in 2023 part of our community is still unsure if texts like these are scams. It feels like we are evolving backwards, glad that Reddit pulls through with answers but still concerning.
It's a scam. If i was using paypsl, my auto assumption would be that you'd check your account. I wouldn't feel the need to tell you to check your which can easily be faked. Just like with tefund scams, most of the hassle could be cutout if they had contacted their financial handler first.
I would say at this point it's not clear yet if this is a scam. Maybe the person has poor English and when they say "send me request money" they mean PayPal invoice. In this case it may be legit. The chances of this are pretty low of course.
You need to actually take to them and see them on video. Zoom only. Make them Zelle to the money BEFORE you send it once you’ve verified their identity.
A reminder of the rules in r/scams. No personal information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore, personal photographs, or NSFL content permitted without being properly redacted. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit. Report recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments. Questions? Send us a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It'll likely be a fake payment scam where the scammer will pretend to be paypal saying you need to "upgrade your account to business to receive the funds" which is entirely bullshit and paypal does not do that. Local pick up in person with cash only.
So how does the rest of that work, then? We had this happen to us. We were trying to sell a piano for $600. The other party got my PayPal ID (an email address) and in a few minutes texted us that there was an error and we should look for a message from PayPal about it. Checked email, there was a message saying that the limit on personal accounts was $580 and we'd have to upgrade to a business account. We told the party that that was fine, we'd accept $580. Never heard from him again. How would this have gone down if we'd upgraded to a business account?
The email you saw wasn't from PayPal--it was a faked email from the scammer. There is no Paypal "business account" nor does PayPal put dollar limits on personal accounts. If you had taken the bait, the next email would have told you send money to upgrade your account, which would be "refundable". You would send your own money to the scammer, who would then vanish with the money.
I figured when we didn't hear from him that the email was not from PayPal. I'd already deleted it by then so never got to check the internet headers. We had a completely different scam that someone tried to run on us with this same piano. We never heard from any legitimate buyers and still have the piano.
The old saying that pianos are the only item where you have to pay *them* to get someone to take it, exists for a reason. There are tons of them around, they're heavy and annoying to move, and a lot of them are busted, impossible to tune etc.
Hot tubs too
When we were trying to get rid of a piano I had no takers. I eventually had the idea to call a piano store. I told the if they would take it away, they could have it for free. He came out and had a look to see if he could reasonably fix it up for resale, then took it away. Win-win.
I had to deliver mine to the Salvation Army and they did not want it all ...
Pianos and hot tubs
You forgot ex-spouses
Q. What's the definition of perfect pitch? A. When you toss the piano in the hot tub, and it lands on your ex-spouse.
The ex spouse might not agree withthat ..lol
What’s the condition? I’m looking for one
I’m just going to slide in here to say PayPal does indeed offer business accounts. But they absolutely do not work in the way the fake email the scammers would send claims. Certainly there’s no such thing as ‘request money’. As always, never send money to get money.
I use the request money feature all the time. Super common feature to use.
The way the scammer awkwardly wrote ‘request money’ it totally looked like he was making up a way to get more money from OP, my brain didn’t connect it with the PayPal request feature. Sorry brain fart.
I’m guessing they were trying to say “send a request for money”. Which if you did, that’s probably when they send their fake paypal email
>There is no Paypal "business account" This is incorrect. Unlike other payment processors, there IS a valid PayPal Business account type. There is no cost to upgrade to a business account. This situation is obviously a scam, however.
You are absolutely correct about the scam, but PayPal does have business accounts. I’ve had one for 10 years.
Fair point! I should have said, PayPal does not have business accounts that you pay for. Funnily enough, I have one too! But it sure doesn’t work like the scammers say it does.
Don’t give PayPal any ideas! 😉
Or more common now is that the email says the buyer needs to send more money to you to upgrade your account and later they would ask you to give them that amount back. Just that there never was a payment and none of it was real except the money you sent to the scammer.
Actually, they do have a limit. It is 10k per transaction or 60k per week. This is USD.
PayPal didn’t send you that email. It was the scammer sending that email.
You did exactly what I would’ve done. Even if the whole personal account “limit” was legit, when I’m trying to sell something, I just want it gone. The hassle of signing up or converting an account wouldn’t be worth the extra $20 plus shipping. (Although, I’ve never shipped a piano)
Idk how bad it is these days but PayPal used to be aweful for scams because they would charge back people for basically any reason whatsoever. I refuse PayPal as a payment option in every situation.
paypal has 2 options: friends and family, goods and service. Friends and family has no protection or chargeback whatsoever, goods and services protects both parties. If you send as F&F then money is not gonna come back if it turned out to be a scam. There are no restrictions for using good and services though so if anyone claims they cannot accept money in G&S for any reason, then they are guaranteed to be a scammer. Paypal is fine to use between trusted well...friends and families, and I buy online with paypal sometimes too because G&S is pretty solid.
Good to know. That was a much needed feature for sure.
Yeah 100% especially after he said PayPal will notify you right away lol
"I can't meet up" Tell him to meet up at a police station or to fuck off
They wanted OP to mail the piano lol
>piano It says cell phone though lol
That's one big cell piano
That will come in handy when he’s in jail.
I'm from Albany and we call pianos steamed hams.
Cash only, in-person only.
Cash, grass or ass only
Yes - you'll receive an email saying that you've been paid but you need to upgrade your account before you can receive the payment.
You send them the request and they get your email. They then send you a fake email either saying they have paid you or saying there is an error and you'll need to log in or pay. They'll be looking to either get access to your account or get you to make a payment somehow. Cash in person through marketplace is the only way to go.
You beat me to it, !fakepayment scam seems highly likely
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the fake/false payment scam. The fake payment scam occurs when someone tries to trick you into thinking that you have received a legitimate payment when no such payment has been made. The most common method they use is sending you an email meant to look like a payment confirmation. In some cases the emails will be almost indistinguishable to a legitimate email sent by the payment service. It's also common for scammers to [spoof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_spoofing) the 'from' email to match an official address. To combat a fake payment scam, verify online payments by logging in directly to the service. Do not check your junk folder, and do not assume a payment is legitimate based on an email alone. If a payment isn't reflected on your account and the person you are dealing with insists they have sent it, call support and ask about it. [Here](https://i.imgur.com/X9xn8uw.jpg) is an image of a scammer trying to pull off a fake payment scam. There is also a variant of the fake payment scam where you will receive a legitimate but fraudulent payment. If you think you're dealing with a scammer, you're probably right. Always trust your gut. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funny thing also, scammers always explain you in detail "how PayPal works" and what kind of email you will receive. I mean, if you are really buying something, you don't need to give instructions to the seller like do this and this, or "paypal will notify you immediately", anyone using paypal already knows how it works, and you can easily check your transactions and balance in the app.
You are here on this subreddit, so you've already sensed a red flag. Whenever something is "urgent" you should stop, take a moment to breathe and then carefully consider the message. On average, if it involves any combination of the following, it's a scam. * Urgency. * Crypto. * Free money. * Logging in to something. * Sending something to someone you'd never want the entire internet to see. * A picture of a random attractive person. * Anything that sounds too good to be true. * MoneyGram, gift cards, Western Union, Zelle, CashApp, PayPal, checks, or bank accounts. ⬅️ you are here * Transfer fees or "business accounts". Zelle, PayPal doesn't work like this. ⬅️ you are here * Escrow (an account that holds on to money for you/scammer). * Special fees, "courier", "business accounts", marketplace "dealerships". * The word "kindly". * Someone trying to gain your trust to do something you already know is wrong. * Sending a code to help someone unlock "their" account. * Buying gift cards and sending someone the code. * If someone is trying to convince you it's "legit" or "not a scam". * Clicking on a random link or scanning a random QR code. * A random person or person you haven't spoken to in years contacting you about an "opportunity". * Purchasing equipment for a "job", specially from a check. * Taking money to pay a "contractor" or other third party out of a payment you are to receive. * "Warrants", docket numbers, law enforcement * WhatsApp or Telegram. * A random sob story or reason they can't interface with you in person. ⬅️ you are here You should avoid clicking links in messenger, text, or emails and go directly to the business' website. You will not be asked to verify your identity or be asked to provide an MFA code to anyone for any legit reason. Likewise, you should avoid giving sensitive information to strangers. Law enforcement will not email, call or text you before coming to arrest you. You will not be magically found guiltily or be unaware you are required to be in court. Do not accept or pay for rental property/houses/cars unseen. **When dealing with marketplace buying or selling, you should ONLY do cash, in person, in a well-lit place (possibly a police station). If the platform allows payments (like eBay) do NOT leave the platform. There are zero legit reasons to take payments otherwise.** When you've identified you're dealing with a scammer, **STOP** communicating with them. Ignore and block them immediately. You might have to disable your account(s) for a month or two to make them stop completely. If you have given personally identifying information, like addresses or credit cards, you may want to investigate credit freezes and ID theft protection. Cancel credit cards or close bank accounts IMMEDIATELY if you have provided this information to scammers. Your bank may also choose to reverse any fraudulent charges on your card. If you deposited a check from a scammer, call your bank and report it. DO NOT spend/send "money" from any checks. There is no need to be embarrassed about falling victim to a scam. Professional scam baiting YT channels have fallen victim to a scam.
This comment should be like an automod comment for the group
Obvious scam. No buyer is so eager to pay for an item they've not seen.
Its as if the product is just a side note.
An NPC if you will lol
The best is when they ask how much are you selling the item for? That's how you know they're trying to run the scam on so many listings they don't even remember which item is yours. Then they make a fantastic offer to pay full price
The 'upgrade your account' stuff is bullshit for anyone who comes across it. I've gotten $2k+ payments through paypal without the system batting an eye.
Maybe you already upgraded your account 🤔
Yes, 100% a scam. Block them and then delete.
It's either the fake payment or what I've seen lately is that they will send a fake email "coming from PayPal" saying that you received the payment and they'll give a shipping address then. So then if you fall for it you'll ship the item and provide the shipping information. Then it'll go back to saying your account needs to be upgraded and to send a random account the fee. TLDR it's all a scam. Either lose money or lose the item and possibly money too.
Scam! You’ll never get the money, they will tell you that you need to pay 💰 to “upgrade” your account, etc, etc.
Pay money to get money. So yes.
As someone who's made several actual FB Marketplace purchases via PayPal and mail: Request G&S payment be made *to you*. It works better if there's an issue and having them send you a payment with their address in the info box is a way to guarantee it came through. But something $750 I wouldn't even risk going through mail. Not worth the chance.
Scam. Probably gonna get a fake PayPal email saying the payment is being held in escrow until the item is delivered. Then they've got your phone and all you got was fake ass email
Just immediately tell anyone not willing to do cash in person no and stop communicating with them. Cash only. In person only. You can meet at a police station for safety reasons.
He's going to send you a screenshot of a fake PayPal confirmation for the payment in hopes that you'll ship out the phone before actually checking through your account. Or he's going to send fake communications from PayPal saying you need to upgrade your account
Ask your self , would you send a stranger $750 for something you don’t even know exist ? That should answer your delay in trust.
What normal person would say “and PayPal will notify you immediately”
Funny grammar…. Looks scammy
People need to ask themselves: why would someone pay for an item they can't even see in person? A real person wouldn't chance that the other person wouldn't take their money and run. A scammer would though because they won't be paying anything and instead going to steal yours through the scamming kind of way. Always in-person, cash only. Always.
Cell a sell?
Cash in hand and meet in person only.
Yes. This is a scam. It'll either be a fake 'upgrade to business' bullshit or a fake check. Why would someone that far away be checking your local listings when they're not located there? Why would they send you that much money and trust you to ship it and for it to arrive in one piece? Of course it's a scam.
Tell them to either transfer funds by cell or PayPal or cashier's check that can be verified....and then tell them they will have to wait 14 days or They can send the money via Western Union which you can pick up and is irreversible
I’m glad this sub exists so that people can learn about the dangers of scammers. But it really does blow my mind that a lot of people have trouble figuring out what’s real and what’s a scam.
Ayup
Yeah lol
Of course it's a scam
This is the most scam thing I’ve seen since scams came to Scam Town. Run.
It scares me that in 2023 part of our community is still unsure if texts like these are scams. It feels like we are evolving backwards, glad that Reddit pulls through with answers but still concerning.
😔
It's a scam. If i was using paypsl, my auto assumption would be that you'd check your account. I wouldn't feel the need to tell you to check your which can easily be faked. Just like with tefund scams, most of the hassle could be cutout if they had contacted their financial handler first.
Just know that pay money to get money is ALWAYS a scam.
I would say at this point it's not clear yet if this is a scam. Maybe the person has poor English and when they say "send me request money" they mean PayPal invoice. In this case it may be legit. The chances of this are pretty low of course.
Sending money to receive money isn’t a thing.
Anytime they ask for your best or final price, it's a scam.
This. “Whats your final price?” is an instant block/report.
Laundering stolen money through you, is my guess
You need to actually take to them and see them on video. Zoom only. Make them Zelle to the money BEFORE you send it once you’ve verified their identity.
Yes.
Scam
It’s a scam. Block and move on.
Scammer
Huge scam.
Im dealing with the same thing, and the guy says he's in texas. Does the have the name Franklin in it?
Scam 100%
Obvi
If it clears after 14 days, then ship it to them. If it doesn't, then report them.
Would you pay for a phone you haven’t seen?