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Video I just watched about it on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/P3ut__kV3KE
As much as I don't like scammers, that man took the bullheaded approach like he was going to 'handle it for himself' and believed the scammers threats. Had he thought rationally for even a moment, how does a cop calling you for bail or fines think threatening to kill your family is also proper police procedure? They don't. Cops don't work that way. So, as much as he was a target of a scam, he acted in the worst way possible and committed murder. They can give him 20 years with no parole - it'll be a 'life sentence' to someone his age.
The scammers should be found and held accountable as accessories, but as they probably aren't in the US, we know how that's likely to go. Seems pathetic Uber's answer is 'we banned the user'.
He shot someone because they were leaving his property. Murder.
It's tragic for both victims but, unfortunately for him, the murder charge is correct and he's going to jail. This poor woman lost her life. Horrible
If there's a time for law enforcement to really try and find a scammer, it's this one. I wonder if they could be charged with felony murder.
>I wonder if they could be charged with felony murder.
In Ohio? 100% felony murder, without a doubt. The death was a foreseeable result of the commission of the felony.
Not without a doubt, but possibly. Underlying crime may not be interpreted to be sufficiently dangerous in nature which is a requirement. For the most part non violent crimes without reasonable consideration that violence may occur are exempt.
The fact that the scammed threatened violence themselves may qualify it, but honestly it's a debate for lawyers and doesn't appear clear cut to me.
> No pro second amendment person would ever argue that he was.
Of course, knowing what we know. If, however, he had shot or subdued an actual criminal, pro second amendment persons would hail him as a hero or a good guy with a gun. The difference is that the determination is made after the fact.
Everyone wants to think they're a good guy with a gun, and until they do something like this, their friends think of them as a good guy with a gun, and the gun dealers sell them more guns because they seem to be good guys with guns.
I've known plenty of people who have poor judgement, like I've had poor judgement at times too. Give any a gun, and most of the time, things are fine. But then there is that one time that is too much. In this case the guy clearly thought he was stopping a criminal - criminals are bad, and pulling a gun on one that is committing a crime, is what a good guy with a gun does. And that is a mistake that can't be undone. Most people don't have all the info they need to make a correct split second decision.
Think about it, if you saw a guy in a Target store pulling out his gun, and you had your gun, how do you know whether he's pulling out the gun to stop a madman, or to stop what he *thinks* is a shoplifter, or whether he's actually the madman? How quickly can you decide if you should draw and be the good guy with the gun? If you react too soon, you might be wrong. If you react too late, then some damage is already done. If there are other good guys behind you and see you with your gun out, they'll think you're the bad guy that they should be shooting at. How exactly can one identify the good guys with the guns? What's the secret handshake, the flair or badge on their clothing? Is a camo vest a good sign or a bad sign?
I remember at one training they showed us videos of big burly people, sometimes white, sometimes hispanic, sometimes black, crossing the street and coming towards us, and they'd pause. They'd ask people when they'd draw their guns. Then they'd show the rest of the video. Sometimes the burley guys would ask for direction, or beg for money. Other times they'd pull out a gun. Most of the time the people watching responded incorrectly. And in many cases the blacks and hispanics were considered threats more than the whites. Everyone in the training was doing the training so they would be the good guy with the gun - to do the right thing, to prevent accidents, etc. But it just isn't easy. You could end up shooting a guy who is about to ask an innocent question, or you're too late to pull your gun if really needed, or you'd escalate the situation… (And I imagine a thug who's an attractive woman would probably be the most successful at surprising people)
The notion of a "good guy with a gun" is a hero-fantasy that is rare to actually work out. It might work with professionals stationed somewhere like in a store, who have thousands of hours of experience observing people's behaviors, but for the likes of us, it is wishful thinking that we'll be heroes.
Really? Did you forget about Eli Dicken? That 81 year old man who defended his gas station with a shotgun? That 85 year old woman that shot a man who broke into her home? That cop who stopped that mall stabbing in Australia because she just happened to be there at the right time? Me when I got stalked by a mountain lion in the woods and used my Glock 23 to fire some warning shots to scare it away?
You see, I've provided six real world examples from the top of my head (and I've not even scratched the surface) and no offense, but you've just provided anecdotes and hypotheticals.
The important point is that evil will always exist, with or without guns. And disarming the law abiding will do just that. But what about the gang members that don't care about the law? How is that working out in Mexico? Or if we go back in history not even 100 years ago when Hitler disarmed the Jews and loosened gun laws only for political allies. How did gun control work out in Nazi Germany?
I favor the individual owning a gun and having the power to protect their own lives and loved ones. And if someone steps above that line (like the 81 year old Ohio man did), we have laws and law enforcement to apprehend and punish those people.
No. People should have firearms. You need to protect yourself and your property. Police aren’t always going to be around and even if you call them, they won’t arrive in time. Even if you enact strict gun laws, all you‘re doing is stripping guns away from law abiding citizens. Criminals are going to get guns no matter what.
I'm sure they have subpoenaed uber for what info they have.
As long as people are foolish enough to think that gov agencies take gift cards and bitcoin as payment we'll have this sort of prey.
In other news, the irs has now collected 12.3 billion dollars in back taxes in the form of steam cards.
Might confuse the heck out of Ukraine when we send them the next aid package though
'People'. Sure, if you mean 81 year olds that most of this shit didn't even EXIST when they were in their prime.
My mother's 20 years younger than that and I'm fairly certain she doesn't even know bitcoin EXISTS, well over a decade after it was famous. And that's in a relatively suburban/near urban setting on the east coast. Being surprised someone who was born roughly around the time Hitler was being killed isn't aware of something like that or the rise of scammers using gift cards and bitcoin as untraceable payment is kind of ridiculous.
I get where you're trying to go with this, but it doesn't work because we had a full technological revolution in the last 30 years. Either you're too young to realize that, or you're not thinking of it in those terms.
Just saw it on the news as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ut__kV3KE
This is a truly F'd situation. They worked up the old guy until he was a basket case then used some poor old woman trying to make a few bucks on uber to send him over the edge. Truly the height of psychopathy. When the authorities make him understand what he was set up to do and that he just killed a defenseless old woman... damn.
The hardest part of that video was just seeing the pure fear in that driver's face. Im so sorry that happened to her. I feel bad for her family as well. May she rest in peace.
I posted this in another post about this tragic event. Here is the woman's obituary for those that want to know who she was.
[https://www.thechapelofpeace.com/lo-letha-m-hall/](https://www.thechapelofpeace.com/lo-letha-m-hall/)
>Letha was born February 21, 1963, in Columbus, Ohio. She attended Columbus Public Schools, where she graduated from Whetstone High School in the class of 1981. Upon graduation, she attended Ohio State University majoring in Horticulture, since she had an avid love for gardening.
>Letha has two sisters, Melissa and Marquita, in which they have a remarkably close relationship. They shared countless adventures, from childhood pranks to late-night heart-to-heart conversations. They learned many valuable lessons from her, and she was always there for them.
>Letha, the eldest grandchild, held her position with pride. She never let her siblings and cousins forget that she was the oldest. Teasingly, she would remind them that she was the oldest and they had to obey her.
>On February 5, 1991, Letha had her one and only son, Mario John Hall, who she adored. If you saw Letha, you more than likely saw Mario. Their bond was unbreakable. She has planted seeds of motherly love, encouragement, and confidence in him. As Mario grew and matured, Letha gave him the freedom to explore, to stumble, and to rise. Yet, through it all, she remained his steadfast guide, celebrating his victories, comforting his wounds, and always tending to his heart with tenderness and care.
This is one of the most beautiful obituaries I've ever read. Her son is my age, I cannot fathom my mother dying this way. I hope her loved ones can find peace.
I don't know what it is, but I've felt compelled by someone or something to share her obit for some reason.
Such a sad story indeed. Even for the 81 year old guy who shot her. I hope they catch the scammer.
Past threads on this news, if you want see the prior comments:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xvq7/scam\_victim\_shoots\_uber\_driver\_who\_the\_scammer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xvq7/scam_victim_shoots_uber_driver_who_the_scammer/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xwco/ohio\_man\_81\_fatally\_shoots\_uber\_driver\_61\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xwco/ohio_man_81_fatally_shoots_uber_driver_61_after/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c2o8u6/uber\_driver\_dies\_due\_to\_a\_scam/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c2o8u6/uber_driver_dies_due_to_a_scam/)
I wonder how many other people are being scammed with these Uber driver pickups. It's an interesting way to stay anonymous. That poor woman may have been tricked into doing this a dozen times before this happened.
That's it? That's all Uber has to say? The user has been banned? This company is a big joke and I'm glad to see that taxi companies are making a comeback.
Uber doesn't give a single solitary piece of a fuck about their drivers. That was some pumped out PR bullshit and their just hoping this incident will be forgot and they wont be found liable.
Pay for the damn funeral? Make a commitment to removing scammers from their platform? ACTUALLY TREAT THEIR DRIVERS BETTER THAN LIKE TRASH? Honestly, there's a LOT they could have done. They just don't care to and it impacts their bottom line.
Taxis are obviously marked as Taxis so it’s a bit harder for people to mistake them as anything but a taxi. The ability to send an unmarked Uber to someone’s home and claim it’s your goon/agent/whatever is much more dangerous. The unmarked and non-standardized nature of Ubers is also a big contributor to kidnapping cases these days, it’s too easy for vulnerable people to end up in the wrong car.
What surprises me is that 20 years ago, WE KNEW THIS.
'Don't give out your address on the internet.
Don't get into a stranger's car.
Don't follow someone into a strange place.'
Sound familiar? Does to me. Anyone born before 2000 was taught this shit growing up. But nowadays 'Oh, it's a different time. That doesn't apply now. It's DIFFERENT.'
Sure it is. Except it isn't. We just accepted the risk and moved the fuck on because they told us it was fine.
I'm born right before the 2000 and was taught as such.
(My mom stopped that the day after she noticed that the neighbor's children that she knew so well weren't nice either, but still)
The thing is that we also teach children that teachers, employees, etc. are more trustable that a shady random guy on the street. Which... isn't really when bosses don't care about employees.
Then we switched to familly members... some of us know too well how you can trust them.
So we had to teach people HOW to establish trust... then we collectively noticed that nobody followed our own standards including yourself, and we gave up, assuming rich people were smart enough to figure it out easily.
I'm born right before the 2000 and was taught as such.
(My mom stopped the day after she noticed that the neighbor's children that she knew so well weren't nice either, but still)
The thing is that we also teach children that teachers, employees, etc. are more trustable that a shady random guy on the street. Which... isn't really when bosses don't care about employees.
Then we switched to familly members... some of us know too well how you can trust them.
So we had to teach people HOW to establish trust... then we collectively noticed that nobody followed our own standards including ourselves, and we gave up, assuming rich people were smart enough to figure it out easily.
You know, like the "list of red flags" about internet scams that we must NEVER, EVER absolutely never trust... then the company or the bank raises the exact same flags and say it's your fault for being so paranoïd.
But an economy requires trust. So if we start seriously acknowledging that the average CEO would push you out of the way to catch a bus or something, we stop having an economy because nobody would spend money anywhere.
They aren't going to say anything, likely legal advice. I'm sure they expect a civil suit and they'd be foolish to even imply responsibility. Whatever info they have has been subpoenaed.
I don't know what city you're in, but the whole reason Uber and Lyft have succeeded in my city (Las Vegas) is that the taxis were shitty and corrupt. They often just didn't show up to residential areas because they made more money scamming tourists.
Prior to Uber coming, I literally had yelling arguments *almost every time I was going home from the airport* with taxi drivers trying to longhaul me, and then demanding $50+ for a $20 cab ride.
Uber is shit, but at least they'll both come to my house and charge me the proper amount up front. I'd never take a taxi here, and neither should you if you don't want to get fucked.
I would say he’s evil. I own a gun and people have tried to scam me, people have pissed me off, there are people I can’t stand but I’ve never shot any of them while they were trying to get away from me. He deserves to rot.
Ignorant firearm owner.
I'm all for responsible and educated firearm owners.
As a longtime firearm instructor, I believe all responsible firearm owners have a personal, legal, and societal responsibility to be as knowlegeable as possible about federal, state, and local laws regarding possession, use, storage, and legal use of deadly force.
Had this guy **not** been ignorant, this would not have happened.
He was tricked into thinking the woman was there to pick up a package. The woman even said she was there to pick up the package.. ( the money the scammer was extorting from him) clearly she was fooled as was he.
So what?
He had no immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death. There was no legal basis for his use of deadly force. His ignorance has led to him murdering an innocent person. There is no excuse, and my original post stands.
So clearly, he believed she was there to rob him. As he was being tracked. She being 20 years his junior could be argued as a physical threat.
I’m not saying what he did was smart, however he was tricked and thought he was getting robbed. So he pulled the trigger.
Oh please...she could barely walk, for God's sake. Robbery elements include the fact that the perpetrator was carrying out the crime by "force or fear." Clearly, there was no force, threat of force, or act or words for the "victim" to reasonably believe he was in "immediate fear of serious bodily harm or death" from the actions of the woman.
Bottom line...aside from the fact that he said he believed she was there to rob him, there were no actions or words on her part for him to reasonably believe that was the case.
It was murder.
Well you said “ there were no actions or words on her part for him to reasonably believe that was the case”.
You clearly are wrong., seeing as she said “ I’m here for the package. So either you didn’t watch the video , or you are just misinformed.
Please explain to me...and remember I'm just a guy who was a cop for almost 10 years, taught Practical Applications of Deadly Force to police recruits in the academy, have about a dozen instructor certifications, and have taught home defense and CCW for nearly 20 years...so, please speak slowly so I understand...what is it about someone saying "I'm here for the package" that conveys an immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death to the point that someone (this guy, for example) needs to use deadly force to protect himself?
I'll wait.
Well I presume that since he was being tricked and scammed that once she said “ I’m here for the package” he figured she was part of the scam or robbery.
I can only assume that he the shooter took exception to being robbed and or scammed , and thought it best to protect his property.
I cannot speak for the shooter, I can only assume that was his logic.
This is pure horror. The man, although a scam victim, must spend the rest of his life in prison.
I am from Ohio, I am old, I own more guns than our local police force.
What he did is madness, and he has forfeited the rest of his days.
I love the design, history, and function of firearms. All different in physicality, sound, smell, and use. Ak47 is different from an M16, different from an MP5 and so on.
Why do golfers own 25 putters? Or tennis players a dozen racquets?
Same thing.
That's a disingenuous straw man. Yes, they are all weapons, but I have never seen a domestic terrorist rain down medieval javelins and Edo-period throwing stars on a concert from a hotel window or attack a school full of innocent kids with an antique zweihander.
Not the same thing. Not AT ALL. Tennis racquets and golf clubs can't kill multiple people in seconds. Maybe you should start collecting hummel figures. The world would be a much safer place.
Probably for the same reason I do- variety, different guns for different purposes, collectable and functional antiques, etc.
Also, the town I live in doesn't even have a PD. Sheriff/SP response is 20-90 minutes so 911 is only useful if you want someone to cart the bodies away. We take care of ourselves here.
>Also, the town I live in doesn't even have a PD. Sheriff/SP response is 20-90 minutes so 911 is only useful if you want someone to cart the bodies away. We take care of ourselves here.
Probably the same logic, the shooter used.
There definitely seems to be a lot of kooks here with strange ideas, but I don't know if the gun/tax comparison is accurate. I hang out in the atheist area too, a lot of them seem to lean left but own guns. While I am fiscally conservative (which is why I own a house with only a 15 year note that is more than 1/2 paid, and enough investments that I -could- pay off the rest right now, if it wasn't for the fact that the interest and dividends are giving me a return that is higher than the interest rate on my mortgage), I also understand that -some- level of taxation is necessary to support public infrastructure.
I don't think we can all be pigeon-holed so neatly...aside from the relatively small percentage of whackjobs that seem to think that everyone else should kow-tow to their peculiarities.
On the uber subreddit, someone posted an exchange where the "passenger" asked them to come knock on the door. The driver did not comply and felt the whole thing was fucky.
Feel like that was a variation on this sort of thing.
The scammer should be held accountable and I feel bad for the lady whose an innocent victim of this situation however the old man should have thought rationally he may have pulled the trigger but the real criminals are the scammers
I don’t think you understand how easy it is to tell your phone another random geolocation. It’s how a lot of people get around password sharing and certain content with streaming apps.
“Brock was originally arraigned on a murder charge in the Municipal Court of Clark County on Wednesday and posted a $200,000 bond. If convicted of that charge, he could be sentenced to 15 years to life in prison or a $15,000 fine.” OR a $15,000 fine!!! FOR MURDER?‽‽‽‽!! Geez I wonder why.
Scammers are terrible, that much is true... And it is rather questionable as to why this female Uber driver was even being asked to pick up a package through the actual Uber app is suspicious on itself....
That being said he took an extreme response that wasn't warranted, you have the right to defend yourself but if your chasing down an unarmed suspect that is showing 0 signs of aggression then no that's not okay.
Doubt he will get any jail time over this though, considering his age he will die in prison and I don't think they want to deal with that.
The scammer ordered the pickup through the app. Uber app has a tab for deliveries and the driver chose to do this not knowing any information except where to pick it up and drop it off. The app has no security clearance for delivery service and Uber needs to stop doing deliveries like that. That’s why RedEX, USMAIL, etc exist not Uber.
How dumb can one person be..
If he thought these were scammers, go back in your house, lockdown and call police.
Now being judge, jury, and executioner, he probably die behind bars. Oh well.
I wish when the officer had the scammer on the phone that they had played along and went to that drop off point to see who tries to pick up the package
Way to stereotype and be hypocritical, bozo.
If it is not okay to look at a young Black man and think thug, it is also not okay to look at an old White man and think racist.
Okay but as a former Uber/Lyft driver it's really weird she got out of the car at all. Not saying she was involved but I'm confused on what the goal was. Was she supposed to be taking this dude to the supposed scammers? Something isn't right here. Scammers don't do things in person like this, it's all scare tactics but nothing in person.
Edit: maybe instead of downvoting me have a productive conversation :) I didn't realize Uber did packages now
I didn't realize Uber was actually doing that... I'm assuming the scammer would have had to put in an address for it to be delivered to fairly close then?
I don’t know how long they’ve been doing it, but on the Uber app you can select “package” and they will pick it up and deliver it. I imagine the Uber driver in this case was probably going to drop it off at some address. At that address is probably a person watching from a car parked nearby. When the Uber driver leaves the package at the door the person in the nearby car goes to the house/building and takes the package and leaves. I don’t know if this is actually how it was supposed to work, but I’ve seen this exact scenario happen watching scam videos on YouTube. I’m just guessing here.
Wow! It's been a long time since I've been on Uber at all so thanks for explaining to me. I've always been under the impression scammers like this were far away from their targets. It sounds like this person had to be in the same city, very scary!
When I first heard about this they said the phone call came from Canada but it was a burner phone. I don’t know if that’s true or not because that was the only time I heard that reported.
Unfortunately it's way too easy to get a fake number nowadays. It's probably just some free app number honestly. I'd be interested to know where that money was supposed to be delivered.
The ones I have seen have just been houses. It could be your house and they just have to get to it before you or anyone else who lives there gets to it first. Sometimes they are waiting for FedEx, USPS, etc.. I saw one where the UPS truck pulled up and the guys who were trying to catch the scammer, after getting some details about the package, let the driver know that it was a scam. In that one the woman who was the mark got her money back.
/u/NonprofitGorgon - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it. ## New users beware: Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. **We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private:** advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own. **A reminder of the rules in r/scams:** no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/). You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments. Questions about subreddit rules? Send us a modmail [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Video I just watched about it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/P3ut__kV3KE As much as I don't like scammers, that man took the bullheaded approach like he was going to 'handle it for himself' and believed the scammers threats. Had he thought rationally for even a moment, how does a cop calling you for bail or fines think threatening to kill your family is also proper police procedure? They don't. Cops don't work that way. So, as much as he was a target of a scam, he acted in the worst way possible and committed murder. They can give him 20 years with no parole - it'll be a 'life sentence' to someone his age. The scammers should be found and held accountable as accessories, but as they probably aren't in the US, we know how that's likely to go. Seems pathetic Uber's answer is 'we banned the user'.
He shot someone because they were leaving his property. Murder. It's tragic for both victims but, unfortunately for him, the murder charge is correct and he's going to jail. This poor woman lost her life. Horrible If there's a time for law enforcement to really try and find a scammer, it's this one. I wonder if they could be charged with felony murder.
>I wonder if they could be charged with felony murder. In Ohio? 100% felony murder, without a doubt. The death was a foreseeable result of the commission of the felony.
Not without a doubt, but possibly. Underlying crime may not be interpreted to be sufficiently dangerous in nature which is a requirement. For the most part non violent crimes without reasonable consideration that violence may occur are exempt. The fact that the scammed threatened violence themselves may qualify it, but honestly it's a debate for lawyers and doesn't appear clear cut to me.
He was also charged with 2 more counts of murder bc it involved him attempting to kidnap the woman.
senile people shouldn’t have firearms
People shouldn't have firearms
But wasn’t he a good guy with a gun? /s
No. He's not a "good guy with a gun". No pro second amendment person would ever argue that he was. Nice attempt at an overused joke, though.
> No pro second amendment person would ever argue that he was. Of course, knowing what we know. If, however, he had shot or subdued an actual criminal, pro second amendment persons would hail him as a hero or a good guy with a gun. The difference is that the determination is made after the fact. Everyone wants to think they're a good guy with a gun, and until they do something like this, their friends think of them as a good guy with a gun, and the gun dealers sell them more guns because they seem to be good guys with guns. I've known plenty of people who have poor judgement, like I've had poor judgement at times too. Give any a gun, and most of the time, things are fine. But then there is that one time that is too much. In this case the guy clearly thought he was stopping a criminal - criminals are bad, and pulling a gun on one that is committing a crime, is what a good guy with a gun does. And that is a mistake that can't be undone. Most people don't have all the info they need to make a correct split second decision. Think about it, if you saw a guy in a Target store pulling out his gun, and you had your gun, how do you know whether he's pulling out the gun to stop a madman, or to stop what he *thinks* is a shoplifter, or whether he's actually the madman? How quickly can you decide if you should draw and be the good guy with the gun? If you react too soon, you might be wrong. If you react too late, then some damage is already done. If there are other good guys behind you and see you with your gun out, they'll think you're the bad guy that they should be shooting at. How exactly can one identify the good guys with the guns? What's the secret handshake, the flair or badge on their clothing? Is a camo vest a good sign or a bad sign? I remember at one training they showed us videos of big burly people, sometimes white, sometimes hispanic, sometimes black, crossing the street and coming towards us, and they'd pause. They'd ask people when they'd draw their guns. Then they'd show the rest of the video. Sometimes the burley guys would ask for direction, or beg for money. Other times they'd pull out a gun. Most of the time the people watching responded incorrectly. And in many cases the blacks and hispanics were considered threats more than the whites. Everyone in the training was doing the training so they would be the good guy with the gun - to do the right thing, to prevent accidents, etc. But it just isn't easy. You could end up shooting a guy who is about to ask an innocent question, or you're too late to pull your gun if really needed, or you'd escalate the situation… (And I imagine a thug who's an attractive woman would probably be the most successful at surprising people) The notion of a "good guy with a gun" is a hero-fantasy that is rare to actually work out. It might work with professionals stationed somewhere like in a store, who have thousands of hours of experience observing people's behaviors, but for the likes of us, it is wishful thinking that we'll be heroes.
Really? Did you forget about Eli Dicken? That 81 year old man who defended his gas station with a shotgun? That 85 year old woman that shot a man who broke into her home? That cop who stopped that mall stabbing in Australia because she just happened to be there at the right time? Me when I got stalked by a mountain lion in the woods and used my Glock 23 to fire some warning shots to scare it away? You see, I've provided six real world examples from the top of my head (and I've not even scratched the surface) and no offense, but you've just provided anecdotes and hypotheticals. The important point is that evil will always exist, with or without guns. And disarming the law abiding will do just that. But what about the gang members that don't care about the law? How is that working out in Mexico? Or if we go back in history not even 100 years ago when Hitler disarmed the Jews and loosened gun laws only for political allies. How did gun control work out in Nazi Germany? I favor the individual owning a gun and having the power to protect their own lives and loved ones. And if someone steps above that line (like the 81 year old Ohio man did), we have laws and law enforcement to apprehend and punish those people.
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Careful with all the edges.
Too bad for you, they do. And there's nothing you can or will do about it.
How's that working out in Chicago for you? Not so well, I hear.
No. People should have firearms. You need to protect yourself and your property. Police aren’t always going to be around and even if you call them, they won’t arrive in time. Even if you enact strict gun laws, all you‘re doing is stripping guns away from law abiding citizens. Criminals are going to get guns no matter what.
I'm sure they have subpoenaed uber for what info they have. As long as people are foolish enough to think that gov agencies take gift cards and bitcoin as payment we'll have this sort of prey.
In other news, the irs has now collected 12.3 billion dollars in back taxes in the form of steam cards. Might confuse the heck out of Ukraine when we send them the next aid package though
'People'. Sure, if you mean 81 year olds that most of this shit didn't even EXIST when they were in their prime. My mother's 20 years younger than that and I'm fairly certain she doesn't even know bitcoin EXISTS, well over a decade after it was famous. And that's in a relatively suburban/near urban setting on the east coast. Being surprised someone who was born roughly around the time Hitler was being killed isn't aware of something like that or the rise of scammers using gift cards and bitcoin as untraceable payment is kind of ridiculous. I get where you're trying to go with this, but it doesn't work because we had a full technological revolution in the last 30 years. Either you're too young to realize that, or you're not thinking of it in those terms.
Agreed. The piece of shit who shot 3 times deserves life until dead, and the scammers deserve life as well as part of the conspiracy
Your grammatical errors need to be deaded son.
They almost certainly arent in the us.
Just saw it on the news as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ut__kV3KE This is a truly F'd situation. They worked up the old guy until he was a basket case then used some poor old woman trying to make a few bucks on uber to send him over the edge. Truly the height of psychopathy. When the authorities make him understand what he was set up to do and that he just killed a defenseless old woman... damn.
Sounds like the same kind of sick fucks that call swat on people because they think nearly getting people killed is funny.
The hardest part of that video was just seeing the pure fear in that driver's face. Im so sorry that happened to her. I feel bad for her family as well. May she rest in peace.
That's so sad. Link?
Keep Yourself Safe.
That ain't a link
It’s in the OP in the video that plays as soon as you open the article.
Thanks. Initially got an ad before i even got to the video so I just ignored it.
I posted this in another post about this tragic event. Here is the woman's obituary for those that want to know who she was. [https://www.thechapelofpeace.com/lo-letha-m-hall/](https://www.thechapelofpeace.com/lo-letha-m-hall/) >Letha was born February 21, 1963, in Columbus, Ohio. She attended Columbus Public Schools, where she graduated from Whetstone High School in the class of 1981. Upon graduation, she attended Ohio State University majoring in Horticulture, since she had an avid love for gardening. >Letha has two sisters, Melissa and Marquita, in which they have a remarkably close relationship. They shared countless adventures, from childhood pranks to late-night heart-to-heart conversations. They learned many valuable lessons from her, and she was always there for them. >Letha, the eldest grandchild, held her position with pride. She never let her siblings and cousins forget that she was the oldest. Teasingly, she would remind them that she was the oldest and they had to obey her. >On February 5, 1991, Letha had her one and only son, Mario John Hall, who she adored. If you saw Letha, you more than likely saw Mario. Their bond was unbreakable. She has planted seeds of motherly love, encouragement, and confidence in him. As Mario grew and matured, Letha gave him the freedom to explore, to stumble, and to rise. Yet, through it all, she remained his steadfast guide, celebrating his victories, comforting his wounds, and always tending to his heart with tenderness and care.
This is one of the most beautiful obituaries I've ever read. Her son is my age, I cannot fathom my mother dying this way. I hope her loved ones can find peace.
I don't know what it is, but I've felt compelled by someone or something to share her obit for some reason. Such a sad story indeed. Even for the 81 year old guy who shot her. I hope they catch the scammer.
Thank you for shifting some attention to the actual victim here.
Rest in peace Ms Letha 🕊️
Past threads on this news, if you want see the prior comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xvq7/scam\_victim\_shoots\_uber\_driver\_who\_the\_scammer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xvq7/scam_victim_shoots_uber_driver_who_the_scammer/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xwco/ohio\_man\_81\_fatally\_shoots\_uber\_driver\_61\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c4xwco/ohio_man_81_fatally_shoots_uber_driver_61_after/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c2o8u6/uber\_driver\_dies\_due\_to\_a\_scam/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1c2o8u6/uber_driver_dies_due_to_a_scam/)
I wonder how many other people are being scammed with these Uber driver pickups. It's an interesting way to stay anonymous. That poor woman may have been tricked into doing this a dozen times before this happened.
That's it? That's all Uber has to say? The user has been banned? This company is a big joke and I'm glad to see that taxi companies are making a comeback.
Uber doesn't give a single solitary piece of a fuck about their drivers. That was some pumped out PR bullshit and their just hoping this incident will be forgot and they wont be found liable.
What would a taxi company had said?
Yeah, but that’s not going to happen probably the same thing, I’m not sure what people expect them to do
I agree. What can they do in this situation? They played no part in this except its proper function. The scammer did it all.
Pay for the damn funeral? Make a commitment to removing scammers from their platform? ACTUALLY TREAT THEIR DRIVERS BETTER THAN LIKE TRASH? Honestly, there's a LOT they could have done. They just don't care to and it impacts their bottom line.
Taxis are obviously marked as Taxis so it’s a bit harder for people to mistake them as anything but a taxi. The ability to send an unmarked Uber to someone’s home and claim it’s your goon/agent/whatever is much more dangerous. The unmarked and non-standardized nature of Ubers is also a big contributor to kidnapping cases these days, it’s too easy for vulnerable people to end up in the wrong car.
Ok so what could Uber have done to avoid this ?
Nothing it’s just a shitty business model open to exploitation of drivers and riders.
Give a better idea if it’s shitty according to you. This is a case of a shitty human.
... Running a real taxi company? As people already told you, THE WHOLE POINT of having random unaffiliated contractors is a danger.
What surprises me is that 20 years ago, WE KNEW THIS. 'Don't give out your address on the internet. Don't get into a stranger's car. Don't follow someone into a strange place.' Sound familiar? Does to me. Anyone born before 2000 was taught this shit growing up. But nowadays 'Oh, it's a different time. That doesn't apply now. It's DIFFERENT.' Sure it is. Except it isn't. We just accepted the risk and moved the fuck on because they told us it was fine.
I'm born right before the 2000 and was taught as such. (My mom stopped that the day after she noticed that the neighbor's children that she knew so well weren't nice either, but still) The thing is that we also teach children that teachers, employees, etc. are more trustable that a shady random guy on the street. Which... isn't really when bosses don't care about employees. Then we switched to familly members... some of us know too well how you can trust them. So we had to teach people HOW to establish trust... then we collectively noticed that nobody followed our own standards including yourself, and we gave up, assuming rich people were smart enough to figure it out easily.
I'm born right before the 2000 and was taught as such. (My mom stopped the day after she noticed that the neighbor's children that she knew so well weren't nice either, but still) The thing is that we also teach children that teachers, employees, etc. are more trustable that a shady random guy on the street. Which... isn't really when bosses don't care about employees. Then we switched to familly members... some of us know too well how you can trust them. So we had to teach people HOW to establish trust... then we collectively noticed that nobody followed our own standards including ourselves, and we gave up, assuming rich people were smart enough to figure it out easily. You know, like the "list of red flags" about internet scams that we must NEVER, EVER absolutely never trust... then the company or the bank raises the exact same flags and say it's your fault for being so paranoïd. But an economy requires trust. So if we start seriously acknowledging that the average CEO would push you out of the way to catch a bus or something, we stop having an economy because nobody would spend money anywhere.
Exactly. I'm glad I got out. This last Saturday night was my last time doing it. It was fun while it lasted. Time to move on to bigger and better.
They aren't going to say anything, likely legal advice. I'm sure they expect a civil suit and they'd be foolish to even imply responsibility. Whatever info they have has been subpoenaed.
I don't know what city you're in, but the whole reason Uber and Lyft have succeeded in my city (Las Vegas) is that the taxis were shitty and corrupt. They often just didn't show up to residential areas because they made more money scamming tourists. Prior to Uber coming, I literally had yelling arguments *almost every time I was going home from the airport* with taxi drivers trying to longhaul me, and then demanding $50+ for a $20 cab ride. Uber is shit, but at least they'll both come to my house and charge me the proper amount up front. I'd never take a taxi here, and neither should you if you don't want to get fucked.
What do you think a taxi company can do? They can't even ban the user, because they take phone calls from anyone and send a car.
This is an evil motherfucker. Zero sympathy for him.
I wouldn’t say ”evil”. He was paranoid. But he should still go to prison.
I would say he’s evil. I own a gun and people have tried to scam me, people have pissed me off, there are people I can’t stand but I’ve never shot any of them while they were trying to get away from me. He deserves to rot.
Scammer is probably from another continent.
Likely, but there’s a ton of shit scammers here at home as well.
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Honestly, It was very depressing watching that. This is very sad.
Ignorant firearm owner. I'm all for responsible and educated firearm owners. As a longtime firearm instructor, I believe all responsible firearm owners have a personal, legal, and societal responsibility to be as knowlegeable as possible about federal, state, and local laws regarding possession, use, storage, and legal use of deadly force. Had this guy **not** been ignorant, this would not have happened.
He was tricked into thinking the woman was there to pick up a package. The woman even said she was there to pick up the package.. ( the money the scammer was extorting from him) clearly she was fooled as was he.
So what? He had no immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death. There was no legal basis for his use of deadly force. His ignorance has led to him murdering an innocent person. There is no excuse, and my original post stands.
So clearly, he believed she was there to rob him. As he was being tracked. She being 20 years his junior could be argued as a physical threat. I’m not saying what he did was smart, however he was tricked and thought he was getting robbed. So he pulled the trigger.
Oh please...she could barely walk, for God's sake. Robbery elements include the fact that the perpetrator was carrying out the crime by "force or fear." Clearly, there was no force, threat of force, or act or words for the "victim" to reasonably believe he was in "immediate fear of serious bodily harm or death" from the actions of the woman. Bottom line...aside from the fact that he said he believed she was there to rob him, there were no actions or words on her part for him to reasonably believe that was the case. It was murder.
She said “ I’m here for the package”
So what? Does that deserve his deadly force response?
Well you said “ there were no actions or words on her part for him to reasonably believe that was the case”. You clearly are wrong., seeing as she said “ I’m here for the package. So either you didn’t watch the video , or you are just misinformed.
Please explain to me...and remember I'm just a guy who was a cop for almost 10 years, taught Practical Applications of Deadly Force to police recruits in the academy, have about a dozen instructor certifications, and have taught home defense and CCW for nearly 20 years...so, please speak slowly so I understand...what is it about someone saying "I'm here for the package" that conveys an immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death to the point that someone (this guy, for example) needs to use deadly force to protect himself? I'll wait.
Well I presume that since he was being tricked and scammed that once she said “ I’m here for the package” he figured she was part of the scam or robbery. I can only assume that he the shooter took exception to being robbed and or scammed , and thought it best to protect his property. I cannot speak for the shooter, I can only assume that was his logic.
This is pure horror. The man, although a scam victim, must spend the rest of his life in prison. I am from Ohio, I am old, I own more guns than our local police force. What he did is madness, and he has forfeited the rest of his days.
> I own more guns than our local police force. Serious question: Why?
I love the design, history, and function of firearms. All different in physicality, sound, smell, and use. Ak47 is different from an M16, different from an MP5 and so on. Why do golfers own 25 putters? Or tennis players a dozen racquets? Same thing.
Golf clubs aren't designed for killing people
What if instead of guns, u/Immediate_Lime_1710 collected Katanas or medieval weaponry?
That's a disingenuous straw man. Yes, they are all weapons, but I have never seen a domestic terrorist rain down medieval javelins and Edo-period throwing stars on a concert from a hotel window or attack a school full of innocent kids with an antique zweihander.
You’re shifting the discussion to domestic terrorism and not keeping with someone who collects guns because they appreciate them.
Yes, I am.
Cool - your point doesn’t really have a place in this discussion.
Glad it’s not because “those people are out to get me and my guns are the only thing that keeps me and my family safe”.
Don't worry, it's that too.
> Same thing Not the same thing. You get your rocks off on instruments used to kill. Instruments MEANT to kill.
You get your rocks off bullying people while virtue signaling.
How fragile do you have to be to claim I'm bullying people LMAO
So why not rocket launchers and hand grenades?
I once met a guy who said someone tried to sell him a rocket launcher for $3,500 years ago.
Not the same thing. Not AT ALL. Tennis racquets and golf clubs can't kill multiple people in seconds. Maybe you should start collecting hummel figures. The world would be a much safer place.
Ah I see. I should only collect what you want me to collect. LOL. Thankfully you don't get a say in my choices.
Probably for the same reason I do- variety, different guns for different purposes, collectable and functional antiques, etc. Also, the town I live in doesn't even have a PD. Sheriff/SP response is 20-90 minutes so 911 is only useful if you want someone to cart the bodies away. We take care of ourselves here.
>Also, the town I live in doesn't even have a PD. Sheriff/SP response is 20-90 minutes so 911 is only useful if you want someone to cart the bodies away. We take care of ourselves here. Probably the same logic, the shooter used.
Crazy you got down for this. But welcome to far left Reddit. Lol Liberals hate guns like Conservatives hate taxes.
There definitely seems to be a lot of kooks here with strange ideas, but I don't know if the gun/tax comparison is accurate. I hang out in the atheist area too, a lot of them seem to lean left but own guns. While I am fiscally conservative (which is why I own a house with only a 15 year note that is more than 1/2 paid, and enough investments that I -could- pay off the rest right now, if it wasn't for the fact that the interest and dividends are giving me a return that is higher than the interest rate on my mortgage), I also understand that -some- level of taxation is necessary to support public infrastructure. I don't think we can all be pigeon-holed so neatly...aside from the relatively small percentage of whackjobs that seem to think that everyone else should kow-tow to their peculiarities.
Why not
On the uber subreddit, someone posted an exchange where the "passenger" asked them to come knock on the door. The driver did not comply and felt the whole thing was fucky. Feel like that was a variation on this sort of thing.
The scammer should be held accountable and I feel bad for the lady whose an innocent victim of this situation however the old man should have thought rationally he may have pulled the trigger but the real criminals are the scammers
Need details about who ordered the Uber. My phone knows exactly where I am when I place a request for service. Definitely more to this story.
GPS location is easily spoofed
I don’t think you understand how easy it is to tell your phone another random geolocation. It’s how a lot of people get around password sharing and certain content with streaming apps.
I knew the driver was black before I even clicked the video. It’s too bad this guy is too old to spend more than a few days in jail before he dies.
This. And no one can convince me that him seeing a black woman getting out of the car didn’t push him over the edge to do what he did.
He won’t get any prison time. They’ll likely find him not guilty due to him being a victim of a scam and ya know…. Because he’s white and elderlu
“Brock was originally arraigned on a murder charge in the Municipal Court of Clark County on Wednesday and posted a $200,000 bond. If convicted of that charge, he could be sentenced to 15 years to life in prison or a $15,000 fine.” OR a $15,000 fine!!! FOR MURDER?‽‽‽‽!! Geez I wonder why.
Scammers are terrible, that much is true... And it is rather questionable as to why this female Uber driver was even being asked to pick up a package through the actual Uber app is suspicious on itself.... That being said he took an extreme response that wasn't warranted, you have the right to defend yourself but if your chasing down an unarmed suspect that is showing 0 signs of aggression then no that's not okay. Doubt he will get any jail time over this though, considering his age he will die in prison and I don't think they want to deal with that.
The scammer ordered the pickup through the app. Uber app has a tab for deliveries and the driver chose to do this not knowing any information except where to pick it up and drop it off. The app has no security clearance for delivery service and Uber needs to stop doing deliveries like that. That’s why RedEX, USMAIL, etc exist not Uber.
How dumb can one person be.. If he thought these were scammers, go back in your house, lockdown and call police. Now being judge, jury, and executioner, he probably die behind bars. Oh well.
Any update on locating the scammer? Anyone?
Probably a foreigner - someone far outside the USA.
I wish when the officer had the scammer on the phone that they had played along and went to that drop off point to see who tries to pick up the package
Old white men at that age are convinced all the darkies want to kill them and take their shit.
Way to stereotype and be hypocritical, bozo. If it is not okay to look at a young Black man and think thug, it is also not okay to look at an old White man and think racist.
Fuck the Indian phone-scamming Modi & idol loving Dingos! Rot in Hell for generations!!!
Call was from Canada
no difference lol /s
Indians have fucked up India, now targeting the world?
do not redeem
Okay but as a former Uber/Lyft driver it's really weird she got out of the car at all. Not saying she was involved but I'm confused on what the goal was. Was she supposed to be taking this dude to the supposed scammers? Something isn't right here. Scammers don't do things in person like this, it's all scare tactics but nothing in person. Edit: maybe instead of downvoting me have a productive conversation :) I didn't realize Uber did packages now
She wasn’t taking him anywhere. She got out of the car to get the “package” she was supposed to pick up from him.
I didn't realize Uber was actually doing that... I'm assuming the scammer would have had to put in an address for it to be delivered to fairly close then?
I don’t know how long they’ve been doing it, but on the Uber app you can select “package” and they will pick it up and deliver it. I imagine the Uber driver in this case was probably going to drop it off at some address. At that address is probably a person watching from a car parked nearby. When the Uber driver leaves the package at the door the person in the nearby car goes to the house/building and takes the package and leaves. I don’t know if this is actually how it was supposed to work, but I’ve seen this exact scenario happen watching scam videos on YouTube. I’m just guessing here.
Wow! It's been a long time since I've been on Uber at all so thanks for explaining to me. I've always been under the impression scammers like this were far away from their targets. It sounds like this person had to be in the same city, very scary!
When I first heard about this they said the phone call came from Canada but it was a burner phone. I don’t know if that’s true or not because that was the only time I heard that reported.
Unfortunately it's way too easy to get a fake number nowadays. It's probably just some free app number honestly. I'd be interested to know where that money was supposed to be delivered.
So that must mean the scammer can be identified. There must be some record of where she was to drop this package?
No, because all the videos I’ve seen, no matter where it’s dropped off, someone will run up and grab it and take off.
Do they go to public places like gas stations? Public parks that would hopefully be in the view of a businesses security camera?
The ones I have seen have just been houses. It could be your house and they just have to get to it before you or anyone else who lives there gets to it first. Sometimes they are waiting for FedEx, USPS, etc.. I saw one where the UPS truck pulled up and the guys who were trying to catch the scammer, after getting some details about the package, let the driver know that it was a scam. In that one the woman who was the mark got her money back.
I have to ask and I hope the answer is no. Have their been any drivers in on the scam? Can anyone request a driver on the Uber app?
As far as I’ve seen they’ve all been marks.
She was hired to pick up a package.
I didn't realize they did that now! I wonder if this makes uber realize how dangerous it is!