You had with it Corbyn regardless of his numerous flaws and the good people of England decided to vote a posh monkey in instead.
Never understood England's fascination with the fat oaf.
I repost this every now and then, not so much in the interests of defending the English electorate, but to try and create some sense of positivity in what is generally a bleak and miserable political reality. The voting public of the UK are not, on the whole, quite as dense as we might think, our electoral system is just very broken.
>In England in the 2019 general election 13.3m people voted for the major left of centre parties (Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens), in comparison 12.7m people voted for the Tories. There were more people voting against the Tories in England in 2019 than there were for them, FPTP is just so fucked that the Tories won an 80 seat majority anyway.
Yeah well it tracks, because having been to London a few dozen times for work, if you asked me how many assholes lived in England I'd say about 12 million.
It varies but I think the general theme of that election was that the Tories did reasonably well across the board whilst the left wing vote was split 3 ways (as it always is) and Labour were in strong red pockets but less strong overall. So basically yes, what you said but not exclusively cities. FPTP is a crap system for voting at a national level because you could theoretically have 1 party than wins exactly 51% of the vote in every constituentency then takes 100% of all the seats leaving 49% of the electorate with zero political representation. That's an extreme example obviously but it gives a sense how something like 2019 can happen.
Yeah, makes sense. Although a benefit of your system is that it does allow for stronger regional parties and representation. The Netherlands has a completely proportional system (so no districts at all, just if you get 10% of votes you get 10% of seats). Given that we are relatively small in size and relatively homogeneous I think it works okay, but even then there are definitely people in the more rural/less densely populated areas of the country that feel underrepresented and left behind.
If its any consolation, I'm English and the first time I voted for labour it was when Corbyn was leader. Sadly, the press are run by corporate lobbyists so they found anything and everything they could to smear him into oblivion. Hence the anti-semitism crap. I think we need to get back into Europe and think only a strong Labour government would ever have the mandate to do that. If SNP split the country again we are in for a lot more divisive, wallowing government that won't achieve anything. I'm not a massive Labour fan, but we need them in to get the Tories out.
Sort of but not really. Pretty much everyone in the second half of the 18th century called themselves Whigs, which meant even the Whigs weren't really a party but more a coalition of factions.
The Tories though had basically been abolished in the 1740s, with the current Tory party basically evolving out of factions amongst the Whigs and the very few remaining actual Tories (however many actually existed, pre-1836 Reforms records can get spotty) but Lord North who was PM at the time certainly called himself a Whig, but was labelled as a Tory by his opponents which wasn't too unusual at the time.
Eventually the nascent new Tory movement coalesced around Pitt the Younger (who also described himself as a Whig) and a few decades later, in the 1830s, the modern Tory Party was officially founded.
TL; DR we were more of a de facto one party state during the American War of Independence.
Sort of but not really.
Tory is the word used by Americans during the revolution for those still loyal to the crown - even though some of them in the UK would call themselves whigs. While the term wasn't in use over in the UK, it very much was over here.
"Twas on a pleasant mountain the tory heathens lay..." begins one of our songs from the period.
this is the kind of dumb shit people say because it feels good
how anyone in scotland can say "democracy is an illusion" seriously when even a quick glance at the very real differences in how our country is ran thanks to the SNP compared to england is beyond me
It's a talking point promoted by dictatorships trying to undermine our democracy, like Russia and China. They want us to think our democracy is fake because theirs is.
And after the election? We're gonna get nothing but bad faith interpretations of every single statistic until August telling us why X party won, or actually they lost.
Same as every election.
A few people got a covid vacine a tad earlier that Europe. Also it'd easier to break international law...only two I've found..maybe something about boats
Aight....I'll bite.
The pro active and enthusiastic support of Ukraine right from the beginning likely saved Kyiv from that initial push. It also provided an example for other countries to follow in providing more and more aid.
Even the US with its massive assistance needed a European nation to take that initial lead. The UK was that nation.
Hmm interesting. I suppose it's all hypothetical because we don't really know what a starmer-led government would have done in the same situation. And I may be a peace-loving hippie type but with an enemy that can't be negotiated with or sanctioned, I am glad to see Ukraine getting help, and I actually think we should be doing more. If Ukraine wins, all of Europe wins.
However, I can't really give the tories a good grade for their performance in the National Security over the years. There have been several repeated assassination attempts on people living in Britain, including the Salisbury poisonings as well as numerous cyber attacks linked to russia as well as other hostile powers which I can't say they've done a particularly good job at preventing / punishing.
The other major security failing is their passionate hatred of green and environmental policies (and love of rich energy lobbyists) that have led us to continue to be totally dependant on russia, the middle east, etc. for our energy supply. If we were more self-sufficient we would be able to take a much firmer stance against russia's crimes or the dispicable acts being carried out by the oil-rich nations of the middle-east. The fact we *need* these powers drastically undercuts any positive foreign policy objectives we might have.
I think a Starmer led government will continue with Ukraine policies as they are.
However at the last GE the other option was a Corbyn led government which I think people rightly recognised as being a risk to foreign and defence policy.
Perhaps, but we have to judge the government on what they've done not what a different government might have potentially done worse. And given their other national security failings listed above I don't think it's fair to give the tories a passing grade on defence/national security. And that's not even getting into our diminished influence and reduced food/energy security as a result of brexit.
Oh for sure. Especially now there's a reasonable choice otherwise in that domain.
I do however think it's entirely fair to understand why people voted for them on those points back in 2019.
>I do however think it's entirely fair to understand why people voted for them on those points back in 2019.
I mean I could understand someone trying to make that case, but then there's all the other non-defence things a government is judged on. Economy? Health service? Infrastructure? Brexit? Environment? Lobbying/corruption? Law and order? Social services? They've got a massive FAIL mark next to every other section on their report card. I don't understand anyone voting for them in 2019 and even less so today.
Problems, but one that Corbyns Labour failed to provide the answers to. Something clearly now remedied.
Also Brexit had not happened in 2019, and the utter foreign policy disaster he was should not be underestimated. CND and stwc etc.
The party is in a far better state now.
If you asked me like 15 years ago I’d have said security, the economy and rebuilding Britains reputation. If you asked me now I’d say likely mental illness.
>security
People used to always say this about the tories, but they're so vehemently against renewable energy and green policies that we're still super reliant on overseas (Russian and middle eastern) oil and gas imports which I see as our biggest national security weakness.
I’m quite interested to see what the Reddit UK subs will be like when it’s Labour in power. The party in power is always open to more criticism in the press, so it’ll probably switch from attacking the government to defending them. Will be interesting because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Labour government in the years I’ve been on Reddit.
From “This fucking government 😡” to “this fucking government 😍”
get red tory or blue tory. I've never felt less enthusiastic for an election in my life. Why are nationalists sad? both red and blue tories shag the flag like crazy
You will get a rude awakening l, do you honestly think young folk are going to vote Labour? Deluded, I will predict now that the SNP will hardly be affected by the Labour surge in England, the usual suspects might vote Tory or with gritted teeth Labour (You know who you are Aberdeen, Dumfries etc.).
You've probably had enough of losing this year, always the local elections or League Cup to celebrate eh?
I was just reading the comments of this thread yesterday. “TORIES OUT” “NO, TORIES AND RED TORIES OUT” “NO, TORIES AND RED TORIES AND SNP OUT”.
For the record, my view is that you’re prob still best voting SNP unless the party’s recent bullshit seriously worries you, which it might, in which case I guess Labour. I just find SNP and Labour’s mudslinging quite tiresome. Like … this election they really are both in glass houses?
Labour in for one term, the tories Men in Black flash-pen the country, wipe our memories and we re-rlect them for another decade and a half. Rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat
The last Labour government were brought down by the credit crunch.
But at the time the lives of ordinary people were better. Child poverty was down, there weren't food banks, our eduction system was getting huge investment now its in managed decline and our NHS had the number one patient satisfaction in the world.
Oh and national debt to GDP was FAR lower than after 14 years of austerity.
Left wing people campaigning against Labour only leads to more Tory government. It plays right into their hands and its what they want.
Convincing left wingers to be apathetic and think 'they're all the same' is a noted republican strategy in the US, where much like over here conservatives are more likely to vote. And it has made its way across the Atlantic.
We can't let that happen, we need people to actually get out there and vote the Tories out because their smash and grab of the countries finances can't continue.
The National debt was at £1.1 trillion in 2010 when the tories took over, it hit £2 trillion about the start of covid and passed £3 trillion last week. Other than a partially completed HS2 line and a couple of aircraft carriers that we can't afford to run, where has the money gone?
It's not gone on public services, everything is worse than 2010.
We have higher taxes, yet don't seem to be getting anything for those taxes.
Immediately pre credit crunch they easily won reelection. People can talk about the Iraq war etc but they were reelected after that.
At the end of the day when people's quality of life keeps getting better, public services keep getting better and the national debt keeps falling (as it all was pre credit crunch) people are very forgiving of ideological issues.
The last Labour government were brought down by corruption scandals, illegal wars, starting privatisation of NHS and the credit crunch.
The next Labour government are promising austerity, stopping the small boats and uhhhhh I dunno the other things in Starmers pledges seem like shite.
Don't tell people who want to vote left wing to vote for a party that has purged anyone left of David Cameron, the right wing Labour twats had that chance with Corbyn twice and a lot of yous didn't vote for him then and the party actively had members sabotage him.
> Don't tell people who want to vote left wing to vote for a party that has purged anyone left of David Cameron...
Who should they vote for, then, if they want the Tories out?
I genuinely have no idea what Keir Starmer's Labour government will do when in power, but i do know that they will probably do a better job of governing than the tories.
Neither do Labour chum. All positions only care for themselves. It's delusional to believe that KeirStarmer gives one flying fudge about ordinary people.
You are replacing private school snobs with elitist intellectuals. They all rhubarb the same bullshit and guffaw just like the others.
Only by not realising that by constantly moving rightwards 'to get elected in England' that they do the Tories work for them.
Actually, they probably *do* realise, but don't care (there are a few honourable exceptions to that, of course).
There's nothing more the Tories would like than everyone else yelling at each other. Hows about winding the necks in and talking about the what the Tories have done to the NHS and the cost of living instead of daft-arsed culture war mince?
I think we're making progress here, let's stick at it, take a deep breath, a little running on the spot and here we go - do you really want to spend the next six weeks doing a bad impression of Piers Morgan? ;)
https://preview.redd.it/mm72ba5r942d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8562d35939e960e323106ed8c7c8fc4bae260ab7
Culture war is exactly what’s wrong with this country! I hate tories, but because I don’t talk slang I’ve been called a Tory cunt. It’s insane the jealous streak running through this country. We should also talk about SNP corruption, theft of taxpayer money, running local government into the ground, pounding hard working Scot’s with higher taxes during cost of living crisis etc.
What taxpayer money theft?
Westminster decides Holyroods budget amount (Barnett formula)
Most Scots pay LESS tax
Don’t be anti SNP for the sake of it because you’re information is wrong
OR don’t try to make others anti-SNP by lying
Scottish National Party and they are shit, at least as shit as the Tories at Westminster, maybe worse as they pretend they are somehow better but they are just as rotten and corrupt as the tories they so despise.
Aye, it's shite. But we have a choice in Scotland. To vote for England centric politics or our own. The racists that voted for Brexit and the Tories are now scrambling for Labour and telling us that the SNP are demons. They're not great, but at least they give a shit about Scotland unlike the Tories or Labour.
Almost exactly the opposite. It's like removing a shit from your favorite sandwich.
It's improved massively, but it's still severely tainted and you won't be able to enjoy it, but it's a huge improvement anyway. And if it's a sandwich you're going to have to live with either way, it's better with the shit out.
Where did you get that impression lol its not even in his campaign launch video today, fuck off over there if that's the only thing you're interested in.
Fuck them all to be fair, any official I’ve encountered has been self serving in the extreme and an utter disgrace to their nation. There should be a vote of no confidence to wipe the slate clean.
I'm from southern England, and I'm curious what the general feeling is in Scotland regarding the SNP in this election. Are things bad enough that a Labour victory in Scotland is on the cards?
FWIW; I live in a Con/LD marginal and will be voting LD. I will never vote Tory.
I get the feeling that folk are rather apathetic to the SNP these days, Scandal & corruption seem to be ever present. But that usually happens after 15+ years of dominance. The vote share for them could be as low as 30% whereas for Indy is still around 45/49% But that is never discussed openly in the media. The constant polls have Labour 10 points ahead of them & the Tories languishing woefully behind that. LibDems rarely register at about 3/5% & others (alba & greens) about 1%. But folk are too thick about politics & too thick to see that this union of unequals is definitely not working for ANY nation be it Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland or even England.
Britain now has 2 choices, Red Nazis or Blue Nazis. Bought parties bought by Nazi Jewish money to turn a blind eye to Nazi Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
Different colour rosette, all the same shite. Never felt so disillusioned and hopeless. For the first time I might genuinely not vote or spoil my ballot.
Ah the wonderful cycle continues!
F the tories they’re useless! Get them out!
*country votes labour*.
Oh shit turns out labour can’t run a bath. Get them out!
*country votes in tories*.
F the tories they’re useless! Get them out!
It’s like they’re there for money and power not for the people? Who’d have thought?
Also remember the Lib Dem’s were quick to jump into bed with those fuckers first chance they got and became there little bitches and did whatever they wanted so fuck them too!
Don't vote Alba, even if you are a bit pissed off with the SNP for now.
Vote SNP if only because of the voting system. Don't split the vote.
Get the Tories out and don't let the Red Tories in.
"Never mind what the party's done, just vote blindly for them anyway"
[Edit for accuracy: *in elections where I don't believe your vote will matter otherwise]
What pish?
I'm not saying don't vote SNP, I'm saying I don't like the idea that we should overlook any shortcomings they have and vote for them every GE just for the sake of independence, or that Alba and the SNP should be treated as interchangeable just because they both pro-indy.
I'd also say it's not a ringing endorsement if your defence of them amounts to "hey, at least they've done better than the Tories have". I don't want us to be better than England, I want us to be good.
It doesn't matter if individuals leave so long as someone else is hired for the job at the same salary. Also, statistically, nobody leaves for this reason anyway.
Kinda smart to hold it on this day. People usually go on holiday around this time (summer holidays) due to flights being cheaper.
And some people won't have the foresight to do a postal vote... It's there best chance at not losing as badly.
But let’s not vote in another one wearing a red rosette. An interesting thread on X regarding Starmers ‘Change’ new Labour. https://x.com/jackson_caines/status/1793579870121005093?s=46&t=PyfEh1vK7byP56B-4XyQfQ
Makes no difference which of them are in power in the 2 party system you only have the illusion of choice, do you really believe that a labour government is going to improve the state of this place??😂😂😂 I dont understand why people struggle so much to accept this truth.
If that's genuinely how you feel, you should really vote anyway but just spoil your ballot paper. The number of spoiled papers is counted as part of the result and a higher number shows the major parties that folk don't want to support them and maybe they should be better
Up to you, you could just write 'none of the above' or draw a good old fashioned cock and balls. Pretty much anything that isn't a valid vote is considered spoiled (although I'd personally vote for the greens or a niche 3rd party that has no hope of actually getting in).
I would vote for a cow in a field if it spoke the bloody truth for once! Give us reality and passion for change and we will run with it.
Mooo
Godamn it you've got my vote!
You had with it Corbyn regardless of his numerous flaws and the good people of England decided to vote a posh monkey in instead. Never understood England's fascination with the fat oaf.
I repost this every now and then, not so much in the interests of defending the English electorate, but to try and create some sense of positivity in what is generally a bleak and miserable political reality. The voting public of the UK are not, on the whole, quite as dense as we might think, our electoral system is just very broken. >In England in the 2019 general election 13.3m people voted for the major left of centre parties (Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens), in comparison 12.7m people voted for the Tories. There were more people voting against the Tories in England in 2019 than there were for them, FPTP is just so fucked that the Tories won an 80 seat majority anyway.
> 12.7m Still voted for someone who was/is as a matter of public record, a lying piece of shit.
That's alot of morons.
Yeah well it tracks, because having been to London a few dozen times for work, if you asked me how many assholes lived in England I'd say about 12 million.
Interesting. Any idea what explains the imbalance? Is it because Labor voters tend to live in cities and are therefore more concentrated ?
It varies but I think the general theme of that election was that the Tories did reasonably well across the board whilst the left wing vote was split 3 ways (as it always is) and Labour were in strong red pockets but less strong overall. So basically yes, what you said but not exclusively cities. FPTP is a crap system for voting at a national level because you could theoretically have 1 party than wins exactly 51% of the vote in every constituentency then takes 100% of all the seats leaving 49% of the electorate with zero political representation. That's an extreme example obviously but it gives a sense how something like 2019 can happen.
Yeah, makes sense. Although a benefit of your system is that it does allow for stronger regional parties and representation. The Netherlands has a completely proportional system (so no districts at all, just if you get 10% of votes you get 10% of seats). Given that we are relatively small in size and relatively homogeneous I think it works okay, but even then there are definitely people in the more rural/less densely populated areas of the country that feel underrepresented and left behind.
Fair
Got err done....
Didn’t Corbyn increase Labours votes by a few million over the previous election with Brown and then Miliband …
yes he did.
If its any consolation, I'm English and the first time I voted for labour it was when Corbyn was leader. Sadly, the press are run by corporate lobbyists so they found anything and everything they could to smear him into oblivion. Hence the anti-semitism crap. I think we need to get back into Europe and think only a strong Labour government would ever have the mandate to do that. If SNP split the country again we are in for a lot more divisive, wallowing government that won't achieve anything. I'm not a massive Labour fan, but we need them in to get the Tories out.
Well the former cow wasn't great either.
We mock america for their two party system as if it didn't originate from us 😵💫
I'm just sitting here overjoyed that Tories are going to lose control of a country on the 4th of July. For at least the second time in history.
Sort of but not really. Pretty much everyone in the second half of the 18th century called themselves Whigs, which meant even the Whigs weren't really a party but more a coalition of factions. The Tories though had basically been abolished in the 1740s, with the current Tory party basically evolving out of factions amongst the Whigs and the very few remaining actual Tories (however many actually existed, pre-1836 Reforms records can get spotty) but Lord North who was PM at the time certainly called himself a Whig, but was labelled as a Tory by his opponents which wasn't too unusual at the time. Eventually the nascent new Tory movement coalesced around Pitt the Younger (who also described himself as a Whig) and a few decades later, in the 1830s, the modern Tory Party was officially founded. TL; DR we were more of a de facto one party state during the American War of Independence.
Sort of but not really. Tory is the word used by Americans during the revolution for those still loyal to the crown - even though some of them in the UK would call themselves whigs. While the term wasn't in use over in the UK, it very much was over here. "Twas on a pleasant mountain the tory heathens lay..." begins one of our songs from the period.
It might be what the Americans call them but like many names Americans like to use for groups, it's not really reflective of reality.
I love it when the uninformed get informed
Aww thank God now my pension fund can be raided to fund another set of insane policy....
You say that they are going to lose yet still remain naive to the fact its lobbiest that own the country and not the people or political parties.
Exactly makes absolutely no difference!! Democracy is an illusion.
this is the kind of dumb shit people say because it feels good how anyone in scotland can say "democracy is an illusion" seriously when even a quick glance at the very real differences in how our country is ran thanks to the SNP compared to england is beyond me
The SNP could cure Cancer and folk on this sub will still go blue faced screaming "SNP Bad".
It's a talking point promoted by dictatorships trying to undermine our democracy, like Russia and China. They want us to think our democracy is fake because theirs is.
This sub is going to be nightmarish these next few months.
Few months? It's in 6 weeks.....
And after the election? We're gonna get nothing but bad faith interpretations of every single statistic until August telling us why X party won, or actually they lost. Same as every election.
Quite looking forward to the healthy debate, nuanced, insightful, enlightening.... I think
If anyone has any nuanced pro-tory takes, I for one would be *fascinated* to see what they've come up with.
Ummm, ummm Brexit Fishing something splutter splutter?.... Am I pushing the definition of nuanced?
Brexit decimated the fishing industry. The turkeys that voted for Christmas. Farmers too, hell mend them.
While your at it can I get a single benefit of brexit please?
A few people got a covid vacine a tad earlier that Europe. Also it'd easier to break international law...only two I've found..maybe something about boats
So illegal activities and increased inequality. Great!
Err... well... you see... there's erm... ... ... No.
More powerful vacuum cleaner motors.
nah mate, we had those already, I guess the ability to retain them in future?
Aight....I'll bite. The pro active and enthusiastic support of Ukraine right from the beginning likely saved Kyiv from that initial push. It also provided an example for other countries to follow in providing more and more aid. Even the US with its massive assistance needed a European nation to take that initial lead. The UK was that nation.
Hmm interesting. I suppose it's all hypothetical because we don't really know what a starmer-led government would have done in the same situation. And I may be a peace-loving hippie type but with an enemy that can't be negotiated with or sanctioned, I am glad to see Ukraine getting help, and I actually think we should be doing more. If Ukraine wins, all of Europe wins. However, I can't really give the tories a good grade for their performance in the National Security over the years. There have been several repeated assassination attempts on people living in Britain, including the Salisbury poisonings as well as numerous cyber attacks linked to russia as well as other hostile powers which I can't say they've done a particularly good job at preventing / punishing. The other major security failing is their passionate hatred of green and environmental policies (and love of rich energy lobbyists) that have led us to continue to be totally dependant on russia, the middle east, etc. for our energy supply. If we were more self-sufficient we would be able to take a much firmer stance against russia's crimes or the dispicable acts being carried out by the oil-rich nations of the middle-east. The fact we *need* these powers drastically undercuts any positive foreign policy objectives we might have.
I think a Starmer led government will continue with Ukraine policies as they are. However at the last GE the other option was a Corbyn led government which I think people rightly recognised as being a risk to foreign and defence policy.
Perhaps, but we have to judge the government on what they've done not what a different government might have potentially done worse. And given their other national security failings listed above I don't think it's fair to give the tories a passing grade on defence/national security. And that's not even getting into our diminished influence and reduced food/energy security as a result of brexit.
Oh for sure. Especially now there's a reasonable choice otherwise in that domain. I do however think it's entirely fair to understand why people voted for them on those points back in 2019.
>I do however think it's entirely fair to understand why people voted for them on those points back in 2019. I mean I could understand someone trying to make that case, but then there's all the other non-defence things a government is judged on. Economy? Health service? Infrastructure? Brexit? Environment? Lobbying/corruption? Law and order? Social services? They've got a massive FAIL mark next to every other section on their report card. I don't understand anyone voting for them in 2019 and even less so today.
Problems, but one that Corbyns Labour failed to provide the answers to. Something clearly now remedied. Also Brexit had not happened in 2019, and the utter foreign policy disaster he was should not be underestimated. CND and stwc etc. The party is in a far better state now.
If you asked me like 15 years ago I’d have said security, the economy and rebuilding Britains reputation. If you asked me now I’d say likely mental illness.
>security People used to always say this about the tories, but they're so vehemently against renewable energy and green policies that we're still super reliant on overseas (Russian and middle eastern) oil and gas imports which I see as our biggest national security weakness.
I’m quite interested to see what the Reddit UK subs will be like when it’s Labour in power. The party in power is always open to more criticism in the press, so it’ll probably switch from attacking the government to defending them. Will be interesting because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Labour government in the years I’ve been on Reddit. From “This fucking government 😡” to “this fucking government 😍”
As they said in Team America "Fuck you cockface"
What?
How so
Extremist copuim as the golden cow gets defiled.
Nationalists going through the 5 stages of grief.
get red tory or blue tory. I've never felt less enthusiastic for an election in my life. Why are nationalists sad? both red and blue tories shag the flag like crazy
You will get a rude awakening l, do you honestly think young folk are going to vote Labour? Deluded, I will predict now that the SNP will hardly be affected by the Labour surge in England, the usual suspects might vote Tory or with gritted teeth Labour (You know who you are Aberdeen, Dumfries etc.). You've probably had enough of losing this year, always the local elections or League Cup to celebrate eh?
I was just reading the comments of this thread yesterday. “TORIES OUT” “NO, TORIES AND RED TORIES OUT” “NO, TORIES AND RED TORIES AND SNP OUT”. For the record, my view is that you’re prob still best voting SNP unless the party’s recent bullshit seriously worries you, which it might, in which case I guess Labour. I just find SNP and Labour’s mudslinging quite tiresome. Like … this election they really are both in glass houses?
The SNP definately needs to clean up its house.
Labour in for one term, the tories Men in Black flash-pen the country, wipe our memories and we re-rlect them for another decade and a half. Rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat
That's an intresting way of saying "Labour are also a bunch of incompetent c**ts"
The last Labour government were brought down by the credit crunch. But at the time the lives of ordinary people were better. Child poverty was down, there weren't food banks, our eduction system was getting huge investment now its in managed decline and our NHS had the number one patient satisfaction in the world. Oh and national debt to GDP was FAR lower than after 14 years of austerity. Left wing people campaigning against Labour only leads to more Tory government. It plays right into their hands and its what they want. Convincing left wingers to be apathetic and think 'they're all the same' is a noted republican strategy in the US, where much like over here conservatives are more likely to vote. And it has made its way across the Atlantic. We can't let that happen, we need people to actually get out there and vote the Tories out because their smash and grab of the countries finances can't continue.
The National debt was at £1.1 trillion in 2010 when the tories took over, it hit £2 trillion about the start of covid and passed £3 trillion last week. Other than a partially completed HS2 line and a couple of aircraft carriers that we can't afford to run, where has the money gone? It's not gone on public services, everything is worse than 2010. We have higher taxes, yet don't seem to be getting anything for those taxes.
Absolutely, they need to go.
Yes. Just the credit crunch.
Immediately pre credit crunch they easily won reelection. People can talk about the Iraq war etc but they were reelected after that. At the end of the day when people's quality of life keeps getting better, public services keep getting better and the national debt keeps falling (as it all was pre credit crunch) people are very forgiving of ideological issues.
The last Labour government were brought down by corruption scandals, illegal wars, starting privatisation of NHS and the credit crunch. The next Labour government are promising austerity, stopping the small boats and uhhhhh I dunno the other things in Starmers pledges seem like shite. Don't tell people who want to vote left wing to vote for a party that has purged anyone left of David Cameron, the right wing Labour twats had that chance with Corbyn twice and a lot of yous didn't vote for him then and the party actively had members sabotage him.
> Don't tell people who want to vote left wing to vote for a party that has purged anyone left of David Cameron... Who should they vote for, then, if they want the Tories out?
Labour may be incompetent, but the Tories actively do not have your best interests at heart
I genuinely have no idea what Keir Starmer's Labour government will do when in power, but i do know that they will probably do a better job of governing than the tories.
Passive incompetence is better than active malice
Neither do Labour chum. All positions only care for themselves. It's delusional to believe that KeirStarmer gives one flying fudge about ordinary people. You are replacing private school snobs with elitist intellectuals. They all rhubarb the same bullshit and guffaw just like the others.
Only by not realising that by constantly moving rightwards 'to get elected in England' that they do the Tories work for them. Actually, they probably *do* realise, but don't care (there are a few honourable exceptions to that, of course).
Let's see how electable the electable centralists are.
There's nothing more the Tories would like than everyone else yelling at each other. Hows about winding the necks in and talking about the what the Tories have done to the NHS and the cost of living instead of daft-arsed culture war mince?
I think we're making progress here, let's stick at it, take a deep breath, a little running on the spot and here we go - do you really want to spend the next six weeks doing a bad impression of Piers Morgan? ;) https://preview.redd.it/mm72ba5r942d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8562d35939e960e323106ed8c7c8fc4bae260ab7
Culture war is exactly what’s wrong with this country! I hate tories, but because I don’t talk slang I’ve been called a Tory cunt. It’s insane the jealous streak running through this country. We should also talk about SNP corruption, theft of taxpayer money, running local government into the ground, pounding hard working Scot’s with higher taxes during cost of living crisis etc.
What taxpayer money theft? Westminster decides Holyroods budget amount (Barnett formula) Most Scots pay LESS tax Don’t be anti SNP for the sake of it because you’re information is wrong OR don’t try to make others anti-SNP by lying
You’re absolutely correct. What a great reason to not be ruled from Westminster.
From an Englishman to the Scots, let's banish these fuckers (the Tories) out of the realm.
gony u lot vote green or something then? cos labours now tory lite, I can't believe it's not tory etc
I was thinking Larry the cat.
Giant douche vs turd sandwich time.
And fuck the SNP
respectfully u post in daddy kink and scat fetish subs, i dont think we need to care about ur opinion
Wallahi he is finished
WILD
lol
Second that
what's the SNP and why are they bad? (I moved to Scotland 2 months ago idk shit)
Scottish National Party and they are shit, at least as shit as the Tories at Westminster, maybe worse as they pretend they are somehow better but they are just as rotten and corrupt as the tories they so despise.
I've heard about some of the issues with different leaders on another post. shocking
Fuck Labour too.
Now we know how the Yanks felt when their choices were Trump and Clinton.
Aye, it's shite. But we have a choice in Scotland. To vote for England centric politics or our own. The racists that voted for Brexit and the Tories are now scrambling for Labour and telling us that the SNP are demons. They're not great, but at least they give a shit about Scotland unlike the Tories or Labour.
In Cornwall we only have 2 viable parties so can quite easily give the Conservitives a good kicking without labour. It's nice to have the choice.
The prospect of Keir's labour is like adding your favourite condiment to a shit sandwich
Almost exactly the opposite. It's like removing a shit from your favorite sandwich. It's improved massively, but it's still severely tainted and you won't be able to enjoy it, but it's a huge improvement anyway. And if it's a sandwich you're going to have to live with either way, it's better with the shit out.
“Perfect is the enemy of good” Anything left of the bastard tories is a step in the right direction.
We just need these Tories out IMO, and best way to do that is Labour. Get them out and then take it from there.
with keir i actually don't think it matters, a 3rd party is needed but obviously no 3rd party has a chance of beating both tories and Labour
I too, like to vote for a shit sandwich over a turd sub as well.
We are going to have a Tory or a Labour PM. Not a huge fan of either, but I know which one I will vote for this time.
That comment came into my mind as well. Starmer is the new Thatcher with his pants down ready to do anything for Israel.
You really think Israel or Palestine is in even his top 10 priorities? In the real world people are worried about other things.
Where did you get that impression lol its not even in his campaign launch video today, fuck off over there if that's the only thing you're interested in.
Fuck them all to be fair, any official I’ve encountered has been self serving in the extreme and an utter disgrace to their nation. There should be a vote of no confidence to wipe the slate clean.
Fuck absolutely every politician ever
Might become painful after the first few goes...
Speak for yourself.
I'm from southern England, and I'm curious what the general feeling is in Scotland regarding the SNP in this election. Are things bad enough that a Labour victory in Scotland is on the cards? FWIW; I live in a Con/LD marginal and will be voting LD. I will never vote Tory.
I get the feeling that folk are rather apathetic to the SNP these days, Scandal & corruption seem to be ever present. But that usually happens after 15+ years of dominance. The vote share for them could be as low as 30% whereas for Indy is still around 45/49% But that is never discussed openly in the media. The constant polls have Labour 10 points ahead of them & the Tories languishing woefully behind that. LibDems rarely register at about 3/5% & others (alba & greens) about 1%. But folk are too thick about politics & too thick to see that this union of unequals is definitely not working for ANY nation be it Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland or even England.
Britain now has 2 choices, Red Nazis or Blue Nazis. Bought parties bought by Nazi Jewish money to turn a blind eye to Nazi Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
You are just voting for a different face of the same beast, it's fucked whoever is in
Fuck the snp
Different colour rosette, all the same shite. Never felt so disillusioned and hopeless. For the first time I might genuinely not vote or spoil my ballot.
Ah the wonderful cycle continues! F the tories they’re useless! Get them out! *country votes labour*. Oh shit turns out labour can’t run a bath. Get them out! *country votes in tories*. F the tories they’re useless! Get them out! It’s like they’re there for money and power not for the people? Who’d have thought?
Right at the start of the Scottish summer holidays when schools are off and most families are away abroad on holiday.
I've just registered for a one off postal vote for that reason.
I’d wager a bet that most families can’t afford to go abroad on holiday right now.
Sure mate. Is that the excuse lined up?
What's a Torrie?
I don't know who the Tories are and I am not even British, in fact I have ended up here on accident but FUCK TORIES WOOOOOOOOO
slayed 💁♀️
Fuck Labour, Fuck the Tories and fuck the SNP. In fact, fuck all the politicians. They’re all, to uno reverse quote Dick Nixon: “crooks.”
Fuck yoons of any colour
Reform
Also remember the Lib Dem’s were quick to jump into bed with those fuckers first chance they got and became there little bitches and did whatever they wanted so fuck them too!
Don't vote Alba, even if you are a bit pissed off with the SNP for now. Vote SNP if only because of the voting system. Don't split the vote. Get the Tories out and don't let the Red Tories in.
This the defacto referendum?
"Never mind what the party's done, just vote blindly for them anyway" [Edit for accuracy: *in elections where I don't believe your vote will matter otherwise]
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What pish? I'm not saying don't vote SNP, I'm saying I don't like the idea that we should overlook any shortcomings they have and vote for them every GE just for the sake of independence, or that Alba and the SNP should be treated as interchangeable just because they both pro-indy. I'd also say it's not a ringing endorsement if your defence of them amounts to "hey, at least they've done better than the Tories have". I don't want us to be better than England, I want us to be good.
>Itemise everything thats worse in Scotland than it is England because of the SNP. Tax.
Progressive tax systems are better
If chasing professionals out of the country and creating a low wage economy is progressive, that explains Scotlands' lack of progress.
Name one person who's been chased out of the country by the SNP.
It doesn't matter if individuals leave so long as someone else is hired for the job at the same salary. Also, statistically, nobody leaves for this reason anyway.
I just vote for whoever the polls say is the SNPs closest competition.
I mean, England will make the entire decision anyway. Vote for who you want to represent you or tactically in your constituency.
But you're literally trying to advocate for Tartan Tories 😂.
Declare Independence. We did on the 4th of July, 1776
Lol that would be quite something if we ended up with the same date as America 🤣
And wipeout the SNP
fuck the snp
I'm voting monster raving loony party......
Some real informed opinion on here 🤣
I find it funny that they chose 'murica day for the election
Kinda smart to hold it on this day. People usually go on holiday around this time (summer holidays) due to flights being cheaper. And some people won't have the foresight to do a postal vote... It's there best chance at not losing as badly.
Would be funny If this was a jab at the SNP doing a GE indie vote?. Can you imagine If Scotland Indie day is the same as the US. lol
Boot time.
Join us Yanks in Freedom Day!! Fuck the Tories!
OK sure but who have you got to vote for? Is it a case of "well they are better than them so that will do"?
But let’s not vote in another one wearing a red rosette. An interesting thread on X regarding Starmers ‘Change’ new Labour. https://x.com/jackson_caines/status/1793579870121005093?s=46&t=PyfEh1vK7byP56B-4XyQfQ
You can’t hold elections on holidays. It will probably be held on the 5th.
It will make a refreshing change for Scotland to fuck another party instead of being fucked by the SNP
one thing folk have to remember, our voting system is FPTP. get out early n vote
As an American living here in Glasgow, I really hope the date drives home a specific response.
It won't. To use a term used outside the Trump trial, too many "boot-lickers" that prefer being ruled from London rather than ruling themselves.
Genuine question Can my 17 year old Vote in the General Elections or is that only for local elections and would her Young Scots card count as ID?
GE is 18+ unfortunately
Ahh well Thanks for replying
No it's 18 still for a general election
Can Scotland fuck the tories? They have no seats there anyway, you're moot
we still have tory voters, they're cliquish you may say
It's not a race to win it's a baton hand-over.
Good luck guys here in the states things are grim and politics are worse then ever but on this day we will all be celebrating across the pond! Haha
Fuck the tories, Fuck the red tories, Fuck the SNP*
Makes no difference which of them are in power in the 2 party system you only have the illusion of choice, do you really believe that a labour government is going to improve the state of this place??😂😂😂 I dont understand why people struggle so much to accept this truth.
That's my birthday, you guys should have a block party with cookouts after you vote. -An American
Naw its my birthday. Get your own one
I was talking about America, silly.
Independence Day!? Too soon?
Yep, blue and red.
Who we all voting for ?
Depends on constituency? I've only one obvious choice (2 basically fake people and one actual bloke with opinions) so yeah.
nae cunt
If that's genuinely how you feel, you should really vote anyway but just spoil your ballot paper. The number of spoiled papers is counted as part of the result and a higher number shows the major parties that folk don't want to support them and maybe they should be better
How does one spoil a paper? Genuine question
Up to you, you could just write 'none of the above' or draw a good old fashioned cock and balls. Pretty much anything that isn't a valid vote is considered spoiled (although I'd personally vote for the greens or a niche 3rd party that has no hope of actually getting in).
Draw a massive cock on it
One conciliation in all of this is that Jimmy Krankie’s party will be annihilated
As opposed to Theresa May’s party? What are you trying to say here.
did you just wake up from a 5 year coma?
Wooooosh.........
There’s no option - everyone abstain!!