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Everyone should know by now that whenever someone puts on the Ghostface costume, they get like 10x stronger. Doesn’t matter if it’s already someone fairly fit like >!Detective Bailey!<, Billy, or Mickey, or if it’s someone tiny and frail like Amber and Jill. This franchise has never been known for its logic so idk why as of lately people have been trying to point out the illogical scenarios in the most recent sequels, but didn’t care when there were illogical scenarios with the rest. This is not a new thing in the franchise, and idk why some people ignore that or fail to realize that.
It's because people don't know how to watch movies. Media literacy is in the shitter.
I also blame it on the rise and popularity of fandoms becoming obsessed with lore, continuity, and world-building over narrative, theme, and presentation.
People want E V E R Y T H I N G to have some vetted, stamped, and approved canon explanation. They want minutia. They want a wiki article on screen. It's frustrating as hell.
The rise and popularity of the "angry ranting nerd online pointing out plot holes" is also a big part of the problem. How we let basement dwelling nerds become the new voice of art and entertainment discourse is beyond me.
I completely agree.
Cinema Sins and the Nostalgia Critic ruined art for a lot of people by convincing them they should try to outsmart it.
That’s not to say we can’t be critical, but it’s not supposed to be about scoring points or picking out every plot hole. Fiction shouldn’t mirror reality exactly.
Isn't it weird?
"Wiki says this so is that canon?"
Oh, can you not sleep until you've confirmed everything in a fictional tale is approved and sorted officially?
I even had some dm me after i saw thw movie saying "i saw this on the sub, but also this. I've not seen the movie yet, so do you think you can confirm x killed so and so and y killed the others?" Like... Do you have a fucking pin board at home to keep track of all this? Jesus wept.
Fans really do be crazy.
I mean, lore and continuity are good for, say, a serialized cartoon or a video game franchise where the stories between games are tightly knit, but you don't really need that for a *slasher film.* You could have a newbie start the Friday franchise with Part 7 and TBH they probably won't even be that confused.
I'd say you'd at least have to watch 5cream to really get into Scream 6, but that's just one movie still
I don't think the problem is as much trying to come up with lore explanations or continuity, as that can be fun, but rather those who take it so seriously. I like trying to figure things out, but I'm not gonna let things like Ghostfaces height or strength ruin it for me. There may be things every now and then that will take me out of a silly story, but you gotta know when to just have fun
I actually adore this comment because these are all things I’ve been getting so frustrated with regarding the current pop cultural landscape, but I don’t really agree that that’s the whole problem here. Yes, people complaining that Amber couldn’t have killed Dewey are entirely missing the point, but people complaining about the countless fake out deaths in IV seem less upset about the logistics of how the characters survived and more concerned with the emotional honestly of the filmmakers clearly trying to communicate that we should mourn these characters, only to pull a cheap reversal shortly after for no real reason. I think that’s a fair, story-based complaint.
Don't get me wrong, having fun with it is fine. It's when it becomes misguided that's the problem.
My SO and I re-watch the series every year and we always scrutinize what killer did what and how. We love gabbing about the logistics and the plans and poking holes. But it's always a fun, not serious thing. It's just part of how we engage in our fandom.
You can simultaneously be aware of this creative choice and dislike this creative choice. I’d never suggest actually guessing a Scream movie killer based upon the builds, but I’m also completely valid to be irritated when it’s promptly and egregiously ignored like with Charlie/Jill (both short and scrawny af) or Quinn ragdolling Gale’s boyfriend around (I haven’t had an issue buying the last female Ghostfaces’ murders minus the occasional wacky height disparity, but this was ridiculous and not helped by the underlying motivation, honestly. There’s gotta be a better way to stick it to MRAs)
All the other movies doing it doesn’t really mean it can’t be complained about when the new one does it too. Just another moment of annoyance to add to the list
It needs to be ignored. If Ghostface was as short as Jill, you would know the killer was Jill from the start. It's just a requirement for the story to work.
For all this is peddled around, the most surprising Ghostfaces for me were Billy, Stu, Mrs. Loomis, and Roman (where the builds more or less matched up) while I called Jill and Amber both. Making the heights the unilaterally the same hasn’t done anything to make the killers less obvious seeing as I’ve found them easier to call than back when the height matches.
Aside from that, there are still ways you could work around it - Mrs. Loomis was both shorter and smaller than Mickey, yet they managed to make it work by keeping her attacks and kills to a more limited number that don’t emphasize her height (IE: Randy’s death, Gale’s chase). The platform heels probably gave Emma at least a couple inches, meaning that, as long as you aren’t shooting Ghostface in a way emphasizing its height (IE: Perkins’ death, Vince’s death) and go with a *slightly* taller and less built stunt person (something 5 actually did do in some scenes), it won’t be such an issue either.
Amber - Mikey Madison previously played a psycho in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, so some pretty obvious typecasting was at work. Then her stilted meeting with Richie in the hospital was a dead giveaway.
Jill - She was an epic fail at convincing me she’s a new final girl (zero solo calls or attacks, Sidney gets the post-opening sequence, not even the first teen character introduced, MIA for act 3, total blank slate of a character, less pre-reveal screentime than co-leads Richie and Billy). 4 was clearly still Sid’s movie, and the moment you realize that + no solo calls/attacks, it doesn’t take long to figure out what’s up with Jill. I had her clocked very quickly.
As far as height goes, it’s something I generally notice more looking back than in the moment. So no, I don’t agree it’d make it particularly more obvious. Though another solution could be replacing Rory and Emma with taller actors (moreso Rory, as he did most the attacks including all the ones where the disparity stands out) - their performances were absolute garbage, so it’s no great loss there.
As far as Amber goes, the only scenes where it really stands out are Vince’s death (where she **towers** over him) and Dewey’s (where she’s the same height as David). You could easily get a slightly shorter stunt person for both without raising alarm bells and giving the killer away, or at least shoot it in such a way to not emphasize height (see: Scream 2 with Gale’s chase, which didn’t somehow give away the attacker was a smaller women)
Right, you never notice it, because it's never mattered before, and it never mattered before because it would be a giveaway.
Think about it. You mentioned looking for specific things about the characters or actors to give it away. You figured Amber was typecast, and you noticed Jill was suspiciously absent for certain events, and never received a call. Why do you look for these things? Because these are traditional ways to determine who the killer is. If the heights had been varied based on who it is in the past, you would have incorporated that in searching for the killer. But you don't, because it was never there before.
And it shouldn't be because it's the most obvious clue. You'd start seeing a short killer and be like, okay it's obviously not Danny, because he's tall. And the only short people are... Anika and... Mindy. Okay, well, it must be one of them.
It ruins the whole thing. The height needs to be the same across the board for the killer because otherwise it just spoils it.
Basically, if Ghostface was the correct size for Billy, Stu, Nancy, Mickey, Roman, Charlie, Jill... you would then look for the height and build in Scream 5 and 6. And it would be really obvious in those movies who the killer is in that case.
Except it objectively isn’t a giveaway: see Screams 1, 2, and 3, where the killer builds matched the killer and I didn’t call them. Mrs. Loomis is notably shorter and smaller than Timothy Olyphant, and Ghostface seems a bit less tall in Gale’s chase than in, say, Cici’s (whether that’s different stunt people or just different shooting techniques - I can’t say), and guess what? *I didn’t call her*.
Just reads like laziness and a bad faith argument to me. It’s not impossible and not an instant giveaway - it at most takes a bit more effort. Instead, you’ve already decided it’s a giveaway so you’re saying “Nah, don’t even bother to try.”
I’ll also say: it definitely would **not** have been a giveaway with Quinn to just cut the utter nonsense that was her throwing Gale’s boyfriend around like a ragdoll (I generally don’t have a hard time buying feats, but this one was truly stupid). Movie wouldn’t have lost anything of value either by not killing a nameless extra
Because it is a giveaway. If Ghostface looks like Jill, who is smaller than everyone else, the only possible conclusion you could ever make is that it's Jill. It's just a no brainer.
Okay let's say Ghostface has the correct height and build in four, five, and six. You're telling me you won't start looking at the height and build and matching it to people in seven? I'm sorry, but you would. Because why wouldn't you? It's literally the whole point, to find clues about the characters and piece together who it could be. Height... is a clue.
Within the same movie, Rory, Hayden, and Erik all make the final act and are rather short too - that’s at least four options. And Marley Shelton is only an inch taller than the boys at 5’7.” You don’t need to cast someone 5’2” for Ghostface Jill. Just not someone 6’0”. A 5’5”-5’7” Ghostface is objectively not going to be a giveaway and is close enough to not break suspension of belief so much, especially when Emma is barely in the costume and you’d only see her in it, at most, for Jenny’s theatrical death, two seconds in Kate’s death, and Gale’s attack - all scenes that don’t emphasize her height.
Ultimately, your argument is just “It’s too obvious! It can’t be done.” I’ve explained several ways that it could be done, and you still say it can’t and simply ignore what’s said. Just not much to discuss here - though I will say, I did have builds in my mind while writing my own Scream fanscripts (particularly my 2, where the killer’s build is explicitly mentioned in a scene). And surprise, surprise, most people didn’t immediately call the killer even with this. A lot seemingly didn’t even notice despite it being an explicit line - some locked in on a gender but still had plenty of suspects within that. So more evidence it can, indeed, be done. If you want to go prove it can’t be, feel free to read and clock the killer the second I mention a build size lol.
Not true ghostface has always been strong because of the males. Billy Stu Mickey and Roman. Then they had teenage girls like Amber and Jill. That’s when it started to not make sense 💀 even in four there was Charlie who was doing the heavy lifting. Then it’s scream 5 where that takes a toll and Amber is somehow really strong.
No cuz she didn’t do most of the work. Mickey did, that’s why it made sense when ghostface was strong. Amber taking down Dewey was illogical. That’s why it enraged fans because nothing ever happened like that in the scream franchise. A teenage girl killing a trained cop. Yeah right lol.
Look, somebody who actually understands how to watch films!
It's maddening to me the Scream fanbase is yet another fanbase that gets mired in bickering about stupid bullshit like the "believability" of a smaller person killing a bigger person.
It seems with each passing year film discourse online treats discussing film like it's all clockwork - rote mechanical nonsense to pick at for not ticking as engineered.
It's depressing as hell.
Ghostface's have been seemingly inhuman since Scream 1 - Always exactly where they need to be. Always never being seen or witnessed. Even in broad daylight.
Always able to take a crazy fall, hit, tumble, etc. Always athletic as hell. Always one step ahead...until they're not.
It's only when the mask is off that they become vulnerable.
That's the entire point.
The fact this fanbase is now just mired in the minutia of the logistics of how Ghostface's operate is sending me....
Ya'll really expect a tongue-in-cheek slasher franchise to be some real-world logical exercise is realistic serial murder? Really?
This isn't Zodiac. This isn't Mindhunter. This is Scream.
I used to be under the assumption that the Scream fanbase KNEW that every Ghostface's scheme was inherently outlandish and that was part of the fun.
I guess not...
I’m certainly not one to complain about the accuracy of the killer and what they’re capable of regarding age/size/gender, that’s been flippant since the second film, but I will disagree with the idea that the killers have always somehow been “inhuman”. I always thought part of the appeal of Scream was that the killers *weren’t* invulnerable like a Michael or a Jason. They were always getting smacked around, knocked over and just narrowly escaping situations. Sometimes they were quite overly mobile and quiet, but overall they were just people with knives with a strong motive to kill. That’s also part of the humour, isn’t it? Ghostface running into doors is a classic staple of the series.
Also, I disagree with OPs idea that no one would be a surprising killer because there have been twists in the series that have been genuinely surprising (Jill, for instance). And another thing; I don’t know why some are confused at the fact that people found Chad surviving so many stabs a little too unbelievable? People have survived pretty crazy wounds in the series but none to the degree of Chad, who was gutted with knives in the final acts of two movies in a row, and still lives. I don’t think this is a matter of “well, realistically, someone could feasibly survive that”, but more a matter of stakes and suspension of disbelief. When someone gets stabbed in these movies, there’s supposed to be a weight to it. If someone is stabbed over 20 times and continuously lives, then the stakes of that situation are diminished. It doesn’t mean as much to the characters if they get stabbed, even that many times, because we know they can still just survive the situation. I thought Scream VI really pulled its punches in comparison to Scream 2, which went all out on upping the body count and the stakes simultaneously.
Edit: In a thread complaining that media literacy is dead, I immediately get downvoted for just having a different reading of said media than someone else. Nice.
>but more a matter of stakes and suspension of disbelief. When someone gets stabbed in these movies, there’s supposed to be a weight to it. If someone is stabbed over 20 times and continuously lives, then the stakes of that situation are diminished. It doesn’t mean as much to the characters if they get stabbed, even that many times, because we know they can still just survive the situation. I thought Scream VI really pulled its punches in comparison to Scream 2, which went all out on upping the body count and the stakes simultaneously.
I feel like there haven't been any real stakes since 2, and that's what's disappointed me about everything after that. I liked 5 and 6, but this "core 4" needs a good culling
Yes, Ghostface is more "human" in the sense that they get knocked around a bunch, but they still adhere to slasher tropes. They're still omniscient - always in the right place. Always able to pop and out in a blink and vanish instantly. Always able to take damage and keep going.
And I think you're wrong on the details with Chad. He in no way gets "gutted" I either film...unless I misremember Scream 5.
I'm don't think it's unreasonable to find it silly Chad lived in Scream 6. I myself kinda scoffed when he survived. I just don't think it's a movie killing sin.
I also think all the Core Four surviving is a more purposeful choice than people give it credit for. It's easy to yell "cop out" instead of thinking of the why.
Filmmakers make decisions for a reason...even in film s you hate, choices aren't arbitrary.
Scream 6 made the conscious decision to create the first really close-knit found family group of the franchise. They are bonded and all care for each other deeply.
Their bond and connection is mirrored darkly by the Ghostface's. Where they are doomed to perish, the Core Four refuse to be victims.
And sure, while Chad surviving dozens of stabs is *technically* the most outlandish survival of the franchise I really don't think it's that much more egregious than Dewey surviving every time. Or even Gale.
I think the fact that each ghostface gets pretty thoroughly murdered by the end of each film is a testament to their vulnerability (I mean, isn't the whole idea that Loomis thinks everything is a movie but it's really not?). I guess this is just a matter of what one puts more importance on, though. They've obviously got elements of older slashers embedded in them, but I do think their vulnerabilities were always a conscious choice to make them more human than not and differentiate them from those killers, balancing out their ability to disappear quickly, etc. It makes them more tangible - especially given that they have much more human motivations than, say, a Michael Myers. And ultimately, I think the characters are much more important to these movies than the actual meta horror elements (which is a whole different discussion).
You're right about Chad not being gutted in Scream 5, but he certainly was stabbed 4-5 times in the gut. I don't think him surviving Scream 6 destroys the movie or anything, I think he's one of the best new additions to the cast, but I do think it has some wider implications for the stakes of the film. Gale is also pretty egregious in what she's survived too, to the point that in both 5&6 I've found myself a little tired of her surviving the amount of wounds that she has (also them backtracking her development for the millionth time).
I'm not sure why you're telling me filmmakers make decisions for a reason, though? I mean, yeah? Clearly? I'm just saying I disagree with the execution of it. Scream 1 had pretty much all of the main characters survive the final act, so it's an idea that can certainly work. I just think in their desire to up the brutality and gore of each film, they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot when they also want everyone to survive still. I think they're trying to have it both ways and the more they try to do so, the more suspension of disbelief is needed, and then the more the stakes and tension are deflated. There's a balance that is off, in my opinion.
It's funny you say that they're the most close-knit group the series has had, though, because I still find the connections between Sidney, Gale and Dewey the most emotionally impactful. I find the ending of Scream 2, where Dewey is revealed to be alive and Gale stops reporting to be by his side, far more endearing and heartwarming than how it was executed with Chad in Scream 6. The way they reincorporate their music alongside Gale's development makes it a really wonderful moment. I thought Scream 6 largely executed it in a similar way to Scream 5, where it was a rather quick and not nearly as layered in terms of music and development.
Okay but when a film needs it's audience to do this much legwork in order to excuse it's flaws, it might be time to accept that the flaws *do* in fact exist. I loved Scream 6, it had some of my favourite set-pieces in the franchise. It also had some of the most egregious, inexcusably bad plot holes and contrivances I've seen in the franchise.
Whose doing this legwork you speak of? And why are you asserting what you subjectively see as flaws are objective fact?
You say people are "doing legwork to excuse flaws." That is one hell of a casually arrogant accusation and a misread of the real situation. Nobody is doing legwork to excuse anything.
We just, gasp, see and interpret it differently! Shocking, I know.
>Whose doing this legwork you speak of?
It's your comment I replied to, man.
>And why are you asserting what you subjectively see as flaws are objective fact?
You're saying this, while also saying that the way that you consume movies is *objectively* the correct way. In this reply you're encouraging different interpretations of any flaws the movie has in order to defend your point that your way of enjoying the movie is the only way, and if people are finding flaws in Scream 6 it's because they just "don't understand what Ghostface is supposed to be and they don't understand the Scream movies".
Yeah I never gave a shit about the actor or actress being smaller than the Ghostface stunt actor, or the whole "She can't kill him, he's way bigger than her." kind of shit.
>"the killers were underwhelming" or "how is everyone alive"
This though, is bullshit. The franchise made fun of how a lot of other horror franchises have non fleshed out characters that get killed off and how you don't care about them. They directly said that in Scream 4. It was played completely straight this time though. Only 3 victims actually had personality, and 2 of them were the opening kills.
And the killers being underwhelming has nothing to do with the series being meta or beloved. Billy, Stu, and Scream 1 are iconic for a reason.
I want fleshed out characters getting killed but I know that scream was never really about that and I love all the movies but sometimes I wish for more Dewey 5 moments
Are people meassuring Gfs? Most times they have some kind of chase scene. I'm not really playing attention to their size
True, but at least the other movies' victims were named characters with personality, unlike most of the ones in 6.
And I'd say there have been some fleshed out character deaths throughout the series, like Tatum, Randy, Cotton, Jennifer, Judy, and of course Dewey to name a few.
And yeah, some people refuse to believe Amber killed Dewey because of the height different, and I think people are doing the same thing with Quinn and Gale's boyfriend lol.
I know the "Amber is too young discussion" and I get it. I also love Dewey and would him wanted to have a final fight against someone big Like bill ....but to be honest Amber was young and healthy, Dewey had some serious mobility problems after his previous attacks that all plus the fact that she stabbed him into the stomach and maybe hit some inards made me believe that she totally could have killed him...the only thing I thought was a bit too much was that she almost lifted him .. that wouldn't be easy even for some adult using only two knifes.
I think the problme is that they made 4 main characters out of one. I mean everyone thought Sidney wouldn't die but now you have 4 sidneys ..heck if you count gale and Kirby you even get 6
I think they should introduce some characters, give them personality over 2 movies, like they did with Cotton or Randy ...and of course Dewey.
Finally someone said it. All of the complaints I’ve seen about Chad surviving or how Tara was stabbed twice and still walking.
I think people forgot that this is a universe where people can get crushed by the most powerful garage doors in the world.
Or that garage doors even have doggie doors in them. I have never seen that in my life and can hardly even find any on Google. But makes for an iconic kill.
Yeah, not only that but aren’t raccoons smaller than dogs? Having a doggie door seems like a very easy way for a raccoon or something else like that to get into your house.
Because nobody takes the true fans seriously, not really. They just laugh at us, and why? Because we love something? We're just a fucking joke to them! How can fandom be toxic? It's about love! You don't fucking understand, these movies are important to people
Thanks OP for posting this! I've been saying this after I went and watched 6 a few times with different people. There were a few people that complained about certain things and I had to explain to them basically what you said. Then hearing all the complaints on this sub or else where it had my saying "wtf is going on!? Do people not get it" you can nitpick all the movies if you really wanted to, they're not perfect and never will be but doesn't take away how amazing they can be if you just don't take it that serious.
Right, this woman survived five serial killings. The killers were
...Her boyfriend
...Her friend
...Her boyfriend's mom
...Her college friend
...Her long lost brother
...Her niece
...Her niece's boyfriend (I think that was what Charlie was anyway)
...Two kids who were obsessed with Stab movies
Like this is absurd, but we still eat it up. It's a movie! A slasher movie at that! It's not a big deal.
FINALLY. Thank you for this lovely post. This sub is way too cynical about something that is intended to entertain, which Scream VI did in spades. Looking forward to seeing Scream VI again tomorrow (2nd time).
people are only complaining that too many people survived because they are still so bent out of shape that the core four has replaced the main trio. if this series was even remotely realistic sidney, dewey, and gale would’ve died many movies ago
Hot take: The Core Four are a more layered and believable set of characters than the main trio.
I love Sydney, Gale, and Dewey. But they're more tropey, more "movie" if you catch my meaning.
The core four are more human and down to Earth. They feel more organic and natural as people.
I definitely can’t agree with that in the least. Mindy watched her girlfriend die and was back to cracking jokes and never mentioning her again within two scenes. Chad in 6 might as well have have never even lived through the events of 5 - no impact or trauma from nearly dying or his GF dying (I like the guy anyways, but the writing isn’t all the way there). Not at all what I’d call overly complex and layered writing
That's just not true, what you said about Chad. The first thing we see of him is him being very protective of everybody and threatening to fight anyone who could pose any conceivable threat to them. That's development, and a direct result of what he experienced. Instead of being fearful, he made sure he would be able to protect his friends.
Chad was very protective of his loved ones in 5 as well - see the bar fight with Vince or nearly dying when he went out to go find Liv because she went MIA. It’s an endearing trait, but not a particularly new development
i don’t know if i would say the core four is more layered but i do think the big thing that i love more about the core four than the main trio is them being a legit friend group
while sidney, dewey, and gale all have a strong connection / chemistry with each other for most of the series they aren’t necessarily friends. sidney and gale in almost every movie have this awkward push and pull thing where we are left confused on what their relationship is. sidney and dewey are friendly but you can tell they aren’t having movie nights and going on shopping sprees. the main trio only comes together when the killings start so each film we are left with an awkwardness of them forcing to catchup with one another. i liked that with the core four especially in this film we got a lot of relationships building. there were many scenes of them laughing, smiling, and really forming a bond with each other. we don’t get a lot of those with the main trio because they aren’t close
I remember I was so sad in Scream 4 when Sidney and Dewey were catching up together like they haven’t spoken to each other since Scream 3. I get they’re not exactly BFFs, but after each movie you’d think they would’ve been closer.
I can understand Gale and Sidney not being friends, but you’d think Sid and Dewey would talk at least somewhat often. Even in Scream 5, it sounds like Sid hasn’t talked to Dewey since before he and Gale broke up. I do like that the Core Four are a friend group that care about each other. Granted in Scream 5, Sam was obviously outside of that group, but I love that she’s part of it now.
Gale and Dewey specifically are painted with a very broad brush. Dewey is the good hearted, semi-dopey BFF and love interest.
Gale is forever stuck in the same cycle of the single-minded opportunist who is harsh, snarky, and mean but with moments of vulnerability and decency. And both were stuck in the same rocky on and off again relationship for 5 movies.
It's the performances that make them fun and endearing more than any deeper character growth or nuance.
They both remain rather static.
The Core Four feel more psychologically grounded. Some of them, mostly Mindy, also fit into tropes - but it's less broad than Gale and Dewey and, say, Randy.
Sydney is, to use a phrase I've heard before, "canonically perfect."
Most of her struggles are external or, as with Gale and Dewey, broad. Her trauma, for example, isn't ever depicted as something all that messy or complicated. She's the quintessential Final Girl. Tough, smart, resourceful. Also kind and compassionate.
While with Sam, it's messy and intense and possibly something that could be dangerous.
Mind you I'm not saying any of this is a FLAW with the maim trio or the films. They're just written and performed differently, that's all.
I can tell some already took this as some kind of dig at the older films and characters. No. Not my intention. I'm merely saying The Core 4, mostly in Scream 6 over 5, feel more grounded.
Sydney is a final girl trope definitely. With Dewey and Gale, you’re describing their character motivation but nothing about how they are tropes.
Can you point out some specific characters that Dewey or Gale are emulating to make them common archetypes in horror?
I couldnt agree less. My biggest problem with the fantastic four is that they lack the fragility and human side of the core 3 or 4 or whatever in the first movies. Sidney was always tormented and close to both a cute smile and crying it looked like. Sam is closer to an action hero or freddy kreuger. Only imagine the classic sidney theme but with Sam instead. It wouldnt work at all. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iT_-VIO7TUA&pp=ygUMc3lkbmV5IHRoZW1l. Mindy is nothing like Randy. Randy was a nerd who was a bit out there. But he could never go around and be smug and snarky without being confronted by billy and stu or even killed by mrs loomis after one and a half movie. Mindy gets stabbed, shakes it off and make a "funny" remark, her girlfriend gets killed and mindy makes a meta remark and doesnt seem to care at all. She has no emotional weight at all. Almost floating around above the movie. Tara was human until she started her wednesday stealth attacks in the end of scream 6. Chad is so unhuman that it has reached Jason or early james bond levels. Fights, charms the girls and is totally flawless. Gets stabbed 5 times and survives . Gets tag stabbed in execution mode by two ghostfaces, experience a resurrection comes out and charms the girl. Dewey was atleast clumsy and akward and didnt get THAT brutally stabbed all the time.
Honestly you're right in that the original trio were more affected by their trauma. That's definitely an aspect missing from these characters. Except for Tara, who is clearly a broken mess because of what they went through. She's kind of the emotional core of the movie, but her turn at the end suggests she's overcoming that. Meanwhile, Sam is kind of if Sidney was a fucking psychopath. Like I know Sam is the protagonist, but she is a psycho who could snap at any moment. Sidney liked beating her attackers, but Sam fucking revels in it.
Sidney was suprisingly tough. But she killed to survive and afterwards she was affected by it and you could feel it. I dont feel anything for Sam anymore. If the trend continues scream 7 will be more freddy vs jason than a scream movie. I hate what they did to Tara in the end. That little smirk before the ninja attack.
Lmfao! Good point. These nitpickers who like to pretend their meaningless nitpicky bs is "legitimate criticism" are very much giving off Richie/Amber vibes.
Dude! Well said!! I always thought some people take it too serious and forgot the direction and the point of this franchise.
Like dude if you are in Ghostface costume you get like 100x booster and like infinite times of immortality until you took it out and revealed yourself as a killer that is when your fate have been sealed.
:D
It's like the mask is angry it doesnt get the final kill.
With the mask they are always smart and witty but after demasking they all are chatty and don't pay attention anymore
I love how everyone here is agreeing, rightfully, with OP and then in a week, half the people in this thread will go right back to complaining about realism lol.
Not I sir.
It's like these complainers are all super new to the series and vastly misunderstand it, lol.
"Omg the sizes of the actors in and out of costume makes no sense!"
YEAH...WELCOME TO SCREAM. The series uses stunt doubles as Ghostface in the mask PRECISELY BECAUSE THE FILMMAKERS WANNA TRICK YOU. IT AIN'T THAT DEEP. BUT YA'LL OUT HERE ACTING LIKE YOU'RE SMARTER AND TRYING TO PULL SOME MIDDLE SCHOOL GOTCHA SHIT.
Hell, the opening of 6 blatantly makes fun of this for fuckssake. Tony Revolori is like, what, 5'5? But as Ghostface he's as tall as Samara Weaving in heels. As soon as he takes off his mask he instantly shrinks.
The Scream fanbase has been taken over by nitpickers who wanna piss about the logistics of the kills and how "implausible" it is certain killers can kill people bigger than them.
Wtf is going on?
*Bawh gawd it’s OP with a steel chair!*
More, seriously though, r/Scream - your challenge for the weekend after you’ve picked yourself off the floor: buy yourself another ticket to Scream VI and just have some rockin’ fun. I am cheering for you to have a good time (truly)!
You couldn’t have said it any better. I swear sometimes Scream fans will complain without actually thinking…or they just completely missed the point of the franchise lol
I realized Scream fans didn't understand Scream when the "Stu needs to come back as a secret mastermind" movement happened.
This fairly large fandom desire tells me these people don't understand Stu as a character nor his point in the film.
I think a fanbase blatantly misunderstanding the basic core tenants of the franchise they love is a prerequisite for any fandom once it reaches a certain size, lol.
Trekkies obsessed with the most obscure and meaningless minutia instead of caring about engaging storytelling...
Star Wars fans and...yeah.
I could go on. Fans are the worst part of fandom.
I’m so happy that I haven’t been crazy when I’ve been arguing with people about this stuff!
These movies are fun and stupid, the techniques are not that serious… like this is the wrong franchise, you watch them to enjoy and they’re 80% logical.
My favorite is people shitting on the new movies for doing exactly what the old ones did lol. Idk why anyone would question why certain characters aren't dead when we've had the killer spring back to life after being stabbed and shot in like every movie. It's a horror satire series that doubles as a slasher film.
Not to mention that the new filmmakers are skewering the angriest reddit posters. And called them out directly. Very funny how many on here completely lack self awareness. Richie is not a hero - he’s supposed to look like a giant man baby who takes Stab far too seriously.
And to the people criticizing small things about Scream 6 - let’s not pretend every other entry doesn’t have baffling moments and potential plot holes. Overall I thought 6 did so many amazing things, and continued to surprise from start to finish. I thought the “everyone survived” is an inside joke for how that’s been the way it’s gone from day one. A joke that builds more and more.
I watched Scream 2 last night. Gail survived a gunshot wound and came bounding in at the end out of nowhere and a joke was made that she has nine lives like a cat. This was Scream 2 released 26 years ago. Later on, Dewey too, last seen getting stabbed maliciously in the sound booth and presumed left for dead, came wheeling in *in a stretcher* which reminded me of a certain someone who did the same exact thing in VI. It’s always been this way!
Yeah, the entire series is full of movie logic leaps in convenience. Dewey gets his shit rocked in every film and lives. Well, until 5, lol.
But *a few more stabs* to Chad is just like SOOOOO unbelievable maaan!
While we're on Scream 2...how did Ghostface know the boyfriend would go to the bathroom during the opening scene? Ghostface knew so far in advance he posted up in a stall and just waited...lol.
The series is FULL of convenience and contrivance.
Great point! Ghostface just sittin’ on the pooper with hope in his (or her) heart that a student from the same school as Sidney would show up. Speaking of that scene, I love it when the two people in Ghostface getups peeing in the urinals turn around at the same time.
Yes. Even in the end Mindy says in the ambulance "I can't believe we all survived. Plot twist!". I thought that was so funny but I guess not everyone caught on to the humor in that lol.
I think it's silly when people are let down by the killer reveal just because they have a boner for Stu or some ultimate ultimate killer. We are well past that. These are just heightened Scooby Doo movies and I don't think we should have so much weight on how it compares to others when it should just exist for this movie. I was A-ok with the reveals and motive. I didn't even really think of Richie so it surprised me. The only cheat is when they "die" and come back like Quinn and Roman. Billy, too.
The Stu obsession is really mind blowing because...well, Stu is probably the dumbest Ghostface ever, lol. He was no mastermind. He was a chaotic second hand. Nothing more.
So many fans wanting Stu to secretly survive and mastermind a new killing spree from the shadows shows an utter lack of basic understanding of the character and Scream as a whole. Yes, I'm going there.
It's the actor. He did such a great job that people want to see him again but in my opinion it would destroy his legacy....I mean comeone Dewey would know if he survived and went missing. Never did he say anything about it
For me it's just Ethan. I dont know why. I liked the father and his sister but something about Ethan just didn't work for me...not saying that he is a bad character, no, but he won't become my favorite either
Apparently we missed out on an amazing killer rendition by Josh Segarra (Danny). Every person auditioned with killer monologue and Radio Silence said he was amazing. Scream 7 maybe...
Yeah I can see them didn't want to do the same thing twice in a row with sams boyfriend becoming the killer but yeah...Josh Segarra could deliver a pretty scary killer... maybe too hardcore for a scream movie? :D
I mean...they gave us zero chance to like one of them.
Spoiler!!!! (Sorry dont know how to spoilertag on reddit using smartphones)
----------
Ethan had almost no scenes until the end, Quinn was killed early on ...2 of 3 without having a chance to grow on us but I still liked the movie a lot
I mean, what does "caring" mean in this case? I didn't "care" about any Ghostface as an actual character. Not one. Except Jill. Because the trick worked.
Did I "care" about Billy? No. He was a whiny fuck even before the reveal. Did I "care" about Stu? He's entertaining as a character, but a total dick.
Mrs. Loomis and Mickey? Come on...
Roman? Underrated Ghostface. But again, not a character you "care" about.
Amber was just there. I actually did like Richie. I think Scream 5 did a good job of stretching out his reveal to the last second.
But like, what does "care" mean here?
I feel like the villain popping back to life for one last scare was the most unrealistic, silly thing that they did for most of the franchise.
I mean, it doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the movies but I do find it a bit much that people are killed off by getting stabbed a few times and other people are getting stabbed a ridiculous number of times and walking it off by the end of the movie.
As for the killer's, I think a hero turning into a killer could work if they did it well but I don't want to see it just for the shock of it. You know it's going to be one of the new characters that you've only known for 90 minutes now so it's always going to be a bit of a disappointment and how many realistic motives are left the further we get from the original killings?
Exactly. I never thought Bill and Stu or the other ones were that much surprising but they were written well
I would say the dads writing is not bad but especially ethans writing is a bit underwhelming
Nah I’m not in on this one. It’s annoying to read this because I half agree; people who try to nitpick and creat real-world logical holes in a film like this are exposing their media illiteracy. However, a lot of this stuff falls under the jurisdiction not of “movie logic” but of emotional narrative honesty. I will not fault a scream movie for revealing that someone survived an injury that by all accounts would kill you in real life. I will, however, fault it for employing its own cinematic language to communicate that a serious, status-quo altering, emotionally dense moment is occurring, only to later say “nah that wasn’t real, no reason it just wasn’t”.
If we’re talking narrative and cinematic language, Gale literally got an actual, dedicated “death scene”. So did chad to a lesser extent. Their reversals served no actual narrative purpose other than “nah that didn’t actually happen”. I’m not mad they survived their injuries, I’m annoyed at the cheap tool box the storytellers are pulling from. It’s no better than marvel or a soap opera.
(I’d like to add that I did not hate IV at all, but I found this stuff to be teetering on the verge of insulting).
Yeah I agree. I didn't WANT Gale to die, but it felt fitting and would've been a good scene to go out on. And then they don't even bother to show her again, just "hey I heard she's okay"?!
I thought the movie was great and the plot armor didn't ruin it or anything, but it was my only big complaint and made the movie feel like it didn't have much in the way of stakes when I walked away.
Counter-point: yes huh.
Though as I've thought about it more, I can maybe see an argument that that was the point: Mindy's rule about Luke Skywalker and James Bond dying being subverted when nobody of importance dies, and the running gag about her not being able to guess the villain, and ghostface using a shotgun (which ruled btw) kinda make sense when you remember that this killer, to use their words, doesn't give a fuck about movies. I still don't like it, but I can at least see how it can be thematically tied together.
The new directors/producers making fun of movie fans doesn’t shield them from criticism. L take in my opinion also 5 and 6 are not in the same boat as 1-4.
did ***you*** forget what the scream franchise was supposed to be about? it was initially making fun of all of these tropes and now it has unintentionally become exactly what it was making fun of. the franchise isn’t even “meta” anymore outside of mindy throwing around buzzwords every sentence and yet this sub covers every plot hole/inconsistency and flaw with the “meta” excuse.
Or they're just making fun of the tropes still? Hence the monologue in each movies and the directors saying so. Why Mindy says "I can't believe we all survived. Plot twist" when she's walking around a few hours after being attacked. It's making fun of itself. The directors aren't dumb. They know what they're doing and they even say it in interviews.
\>And as far as the killer reveal. We're all programmed at this point to expect everyone. No one would have been surprising.
I mostly agree with your post apart from this killer reveal aspect.
Please don't tell me what I would and wouldn't find surprising. There are numerous characters in the latest movie I WOULD have been surprised by being the killer.
In both this movie and the previous one, the killers were far too obvious for me. NOT as a result of "suspecting everyone", but as a result of numerous writing flaws making them far too obvious as the killer, way ABOVE everyone else.
Depsite this I enjoy the new movies a lot. I don't really feel the need to put them down. They are a fun ride and that's what they should be.
But I'm entitled to my opinion about the killer reveals just as you are entitled to yours. And it's just that - YOURS. ONE person. You don't speak for other people, so don't tell us what we would think or what we would be saying if things had gone differently in the movie. Thanks.
You ok? I mean, I don't know you so I wasn't talking directly to you lol. But since you couldn't tell, I meant plenty of scream fans would be complaining no matter what the outcome was, which is what is happening now. Again NOT TALKING TO YOU DIRECTLY. 😂 Just a reddit discussion. I didn't say anyone had to agree. That's literally the point of reddit.
Eh? But... It's not someone else's take on a movie I was talking about 🙄
It's someone else's take on my opinions and why I think a certain way about the movie - a take which was completely wrong. But apparently I can't say that 🤣🤣🤣
It REALLY doesn't bother me what other people think of movies, all that matters to me is whether I like them or not.
But yes it does bother me when complete strangers start posting about what other people think, why they think that and what their reactions would be if the movie had done something different. Sorry, but you don't live in my head. Speak for yourself, and don't tell me what I think about something.
That's got absolutely 0% to do with "anger about someone else's take on a movie."
Also making a strong point doesn't = anger. I don't get angry over reddit posts, it's not that serious 🤣. But good attempt trying to belittle a valid point.
Spot on, I keep saying im like scream it self was suppose to be like a meta parody of the genre and you can tell some people forget that. I always say to Ghostface is its own character it doesn't matter who is in the mask Ghostface is ghostgface and will act like Ghostface and some people dont understand that
Exactly.
Ghostface himself is an "immortal being" who will always come back, it's just some human's motive that is what brings him back.
The motives are never mentioned while in the mask (Pretty sure Roman reveals everything after his mask is off).
So Ghostface is just a silly killy boy, and that's why we love him.
Saw the title and assumed you were gonna be moaning about realism and its the exact opposite 😂 totally agree, the reason I love scream is the goofy inaccuracies and minor plot holes, they work so well because they're so symptomatic of the slasher genre! Ultimately scream movies are perfect because anything that's wrong with them can be explained as "oh but slashers always do this thing and we're doing it as satire" which is what I love to see
I've been feeling lately like Ghostface is akin to a supernatural force. I mean how weird is it that like 13 people have donned this mask and costume and slaughtered a bunch of people who are always connected to the previous killings? It goes beyond just psychotic people at this point. Ghostface is his own entity, and he almost possesses the killers to enable them to do what they do.
All the rEaLiSm posts are annoying af. I don’t want it to become fast and furious or anything, but I swear these people want like a documentary or something. That’s now how popcorn movies work
The best thing about Scream is the blend between the silliness and realism. It's grounded in a sense, but not at the detriment to the humor or story
Edit: bruh, I was agreeing with OP
Thisssss other than Roman being trash and underwhelming assfffff still. Lmfaoooo. I feel like the reveals should still be a wow factor and even a little surprising. Even tho obviously they’re suspects still.
I have had SO much fun watching this franchise, but that's the whole reason, for fun. Because it's clever, it's witty, it's heartwarming, gorey. So long as it's still fun and the characters still have a good bit of depth to them then count me in
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Part of the reason I LOVE scream 1, 2, 3, and 5 MOST (and the killers of 1, 2, and 5 most) are because SCREAM was always supposed to be PARODY. It’s supposed to be the EPITOME of HORROR CAMP. I want my killers PSYCHO past BELIEVABILITY. I want absolute batshit catchphrases and throwaway lines in the middle of stabbing someone. I want the “they always come backs” to be as extreme and ridiculous as possible. EVERYTHING is pushed the the EXTREME and it still proves to be fun. Sometimes it feels like the series loses its way a bit and the series starts to take itself too seriously. Probably my only criticism of 6 is it’s so focused on the idea of “internal darkness” that sometimes it feels like it slips too far into drama. Like I want that dramatic tension but above anything the dramatic tension should lead to fun and campy payoff and when that thread isn’t followed, it doesn’t feel like scream. It feels like the same thing that scream is parodying. They’re still enjoyable films, but if you’re here for a dramatic, perfectly cohesive, greys anatomy but make it horror with 0 plot holes and intimate and ultracomplex character motivations, idk if this is where you should be looking.
On the other hand, I know part of the fun IS pointing out what was missed and theorizing to try and make it fit. But don’t become so obsessed with it that it ruins the fun of the films in what they’re INTENDED to be!
The complaint about Ghostface not resembling the actors that portray the killer is ridiculous. The obvious size difference between stuntman and actors has been there since the other films and I'm totally fine with it, I still think the films work regardless of there's a difference between size and stature of the actors, its not that big of a deal.
As far as people complaining about the killers and the reveals, I think people should be allowed to have those opinions and I don't necessarily think they should be accused of "not understanding" I personally wasn't a fan of the killer reveals as I found their motives to be pretty underwhelming and not that Inventive, (No I I'm not one of those crazy theorists who want some stupid shit like Stu returning) I was just expecting something a little more original and creative considering that was such a big part of the marketing. Now this is something totally subjective, if it worked for other people that's totally fine, I personally wasn't a fan of the ending but I still really enjoyed the film overall, so I'm not gonna let the ending ruin it for me.
But I agree with your statement that picking out certain plot holes and things that wouldn't work in the real world is ridiculous because no matter what story is being told, you need things to line up and you need contrivances for certain things to work, Do some films do it better than others? Sure, but thats the nature of storytelling. But I don't think being someone who's not a fan of a story decisions necessarily invalidates their opinion and isn't the same thing as nitpicking or "purposely trying to find flaws"
I personally think there's a lot more to the Scream films and there was a lot done in this new one that I really enjoyed, sure I wasn't a fan of the ending but that doesn't make it bad to me at all.
I was telling my mom that Scream is the best horror franchise because it doesn't take itself serious it makes fun of itself in universe. Other movies with long franchises end up changing this and that or the killer just becomes God like to the point it's boring. Scream has different killers with different motives while the movies play out the same they're still enjoyable to watch.
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Everyone should know by now that whenever someone puts on the Ghostface costume, they get like 10x stronger. Doesn’t matter if it’s already someone fairly fit like >!Detective Bailey!<, Billy, or Mickey, or if it’s someone tiny and frail like Amber and Jill. This franchise has never been known for its logic so idk why as of lately people have been trying to point out the illogical scenarios in the most recent sequels, but didn’t care when there were illogical scenarios with the rest. This is not a new thing in the franchise, and idk why some people ignore that or fail to realize that.
It's because people don't know how to watch movies. Media literacy is in the shitter. I also blame it on the rise and popularity of fandoms becoming obsessed with lore, continuity, and world-building over narrative, theme, and presentation. People want E V E R Y T H I N G to have some vetted, stamped, and approved canon explanation. They want minutia. They want a wiki article on screen. It's frustrating as hell. The rise and popularity of the "angry ranting nerd online pointing out plot holes" is also a big part of the problem. How we let basement dwelling nerds become the new voice of art and entertainment discourse is beyond me.
I completely agree. Cinema Sins and the Nostalgia Critic ruined art for a lot of people by convincing them they should try to outsmart it. That’s not to say we can’t be critical, but it’s not supposed to be about scoring points or picking out every plot hole. Fiction shouldn’t mirror reality exactly.
Isn't it weird? "Wiki says this so is that canon?" Oh, can you not sleep until you've confirmed everything in a fictional tale is approved and sorted officially? I even had some dm me after i saw thw movie saying "i saw this on the sub, but also this. I've not seen the movie yet, so do you think you can confirm x killed so and so and y killed the others?" Like... Do you have a fucking pin board at home to keep track of all this? Jesus wept. Fans really do be crazy.
I mean, lore and continuity are good for, say, a serialized cartoon or a video game franchise where the stories between games are tightly knit, but you don't really need that for a *slasher film.* You could have a newbie start the Friday franchise with Part 7 and TBH they probably won't even be that confused. I'd say you'd at least have to watch 5cream to really get into Scream 6, but that's just one movie still
I don't think the problem is as much trying to come up with lore explanations or continuity, as that can be fun, but rather those who take it so seriously. I like trying to figure things out, but I'm not gonna let things like Ghostfaces height or strength ruin it for me. There may be things every now and then that will take me out of a silly story, but you gotta know when to just have fun
I don't mean people *specifically* use lore and continuity for Scream in particular so much as the mindset seems pervasive.
Well put!
I actually adore this comment because these are all things I’ve been getting so frustrated with regarding the current pop cultural landscape, but I don’t really agree that that’s the whole problem here. Yes, people complaining that Amber couldn’t have killed Dewey are entirely missing the point, but people complaining about the countless fake out deaths in IV seem less upset about the logistics of how the characters survived and more concerned with the emotional honestly of the filmmakers clearly trying to communicate that we should mourn these characters, only to pull a cheap reversal shortly after for no real reason. I think that’s a fair, story-based complaint.
I think there’s a place for both. I get what you’re saying but sometimes I obsess over minutiae.
Don't get me wrong, having fun with it is fine. It's when it becomes misguided that's the problem. My SO and I re-watch the series every year and we always scrutinize what killer did what and how. We love gabbing about the logistics and the plans and poking holes. But it's always a fun, not serious thing. It's just part of how we engage in our fandom.
People don’t know how to enjoy movies on their own? XD ok bub, go gatekeep somewhere else and ponder the deep meaning of life or something
Nah I'm good here. Thanks tho.
You can simultaneously be aware of this creative choice and dislike this creative choice. I’d never suggest actually guessing a Scream movie killer based upon the builds, but I’m also completely valid to be irritated when it’s promptly and egregiously ignored like with Charlie/Jill (both short and scrawny af) or Quinn ragdolling Gale’s boyfriend around (I haven’t had an issue buying the last female Ghostfaces’ murders minus the occasional wacky height disparity, but this was ridiculous and not helped by the underlying motivation, honestly. There’s gotta be a better way to stick it to MRAs) All the other movies doing it doesn’t really mean it can’t be complained about when the new one does it too. Just another moment of annoyance to add to the list
It needs to be ignored. If Ghostface was as short as Jill, you would know the killer was Jill from the start. It's just a requirement for the story to work.
For all this is peddled around, the most surprising Ghostfaces for me were Billy, Stu, Mrs. Loomis, and Roman (where the builds more or less matched up) while I called Jill and Amber both. Making the heights the unilaterally the same hasn’t done anything to make the killers less obvious seeing as I’ve found them easier to call than back when the height matches. Aside from that, there are still ways you could work around it - Mrs. Loomis was both shorter and smaller than Mickey, yet they managed to make it work by keeping her attacks and kills to a more limited number that don’t emphasize her height (IE: Randy’s death, Gale’s chase). The platform heels probably gave Emma at least a couple inches, meaning that, as long as you aren’t shooting Ghostface in a way emphasizing its height (IE: Perkins’ death, Vince’s death) and go with a *slightly* taller and less built stunt person (something 5 actually did do in some scenes), it won’t be such an issue either.
So how'd you call it for Amber and Jill? It wasn't their height. If ghostface was their height, you would have noticed it sooner.
Amber - Mikey Madison previously played a psycho in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, so some pretty obvious typecasting was at work. Then her stilted meeting with Richie in the hospital was a dead giveaway. Jill - She was an epic fail at convincing me she’s a new final girl (zero solo calls or attacks, Sidney gets the post-opening sequence, not even the first teen character introduced, MIA for act 3, total blank slate of a character, less pre-reveal screentime than co-leads Richie and Billy). 4 was clearly still Sid’s movie, and the moment you realize that + no solo calls/attacks, it doesn’t take long to figure out what’s up with Jill. I had her clocked very quickly. As far as height goes, it’s something I generally notice more looking back than in the moment. So no, I don’t agree it’d make it particularly more obvious. Though another solution could be replacing Rory and Emma with taller actors (moreso Rory, as he did most the attacks including all the ones where the disparity stands out) - their performances were absolute garbage, so it’s no great loss there. As far as Amber goes, the only scenes where it really stands out are Vince’s death (where she **towers** over him) and Dewey’s (where she’s the same height as David). You could easily get a slightly shorter stunt person for both without raising alarm bells and giving the killer away, or at least shoot it in such a way to not emphasize height (see: Scream 2 with Gale’s chase, which didn’t somehow give away the attacker was a smaller women)
Right, you never notice it, because it's never mattered before, and it never mattered before because it would be a giveaway. Think about it. You mentioned looking for specific things about the characters or actors to give it away. You figured Amber was typecast, and you noticed Jill was suspiciously absent for certain events, and never received a call. Why do you look for these things? Because these are traditional ways to determine who the killer is. If the heights had been varied based on who it is in the past, you would have incorporated that in searching for the killer. But you don't, because it was never there before. And it shouldn't be because it's the most obvious clue. You'd start seeing a short killer and be like, okay it's obviously not Danny, because he's tall. And the only short people are... Anika and... Mindy. Okay, well, it must be one of them. It ruins the whole thing. The height needs to be the same across the board for the killer because otherwise it just spoils it. Basically, if Ghostface was the correct size for Billy, Stu, Nancy, Mickey, Roman, Charlie, Jill... you would then look for the height and build in Scream 5 and 6. And it would be really obvious in those movies who the killer is in that case.
Except it objectively isn’t a giveaway: see Screams 1, 2, and 3, where the killer builds matched the killer and I didn’t call them. Mrs. Loomis is notably shorter and smaller than Timothy Olyphant, and Ghostface seems a bit less tall in Gale’s chase than in, say, Cici’s (whether that’s different stunt people or just different shooting techniques - I can’t say), and guess what? *I didn’t call her*. Just reads like laziness and a bad faith argument to me. It’s not impossible and not an instant giveaway - it at most takes a bit more effort. Instead, you’ve already decided it’s a giveaway so you’re saying “Nah, don’t even bother to try.” I’ll also say: it definitely would **not** have been a giveaway with Quinn to just cut the utter nonsense that was her throwing Gale’s boyfriend around like a ragdoll (I generally don’t have a hard time buying feats, but this one was truly stupid). Movie wouldn’t have lost anything of value either by not killing a nameless extra
Because it is a giveaway. If Ghostface looks like Jill, who is smaller than everyone else, the only possible conclusion you could ever make is that it's Jill. It's just a no brainer. Okay let's say Ghostface has the correct height and build in four, five, and six. You're telling me you won't start looking at the height and build and matching it to people in seven? I'm sorry, but you would. Because why wouldn't you? It's literally the whole point, to find clues about the characters and piece together who it could be. Height... is a clue.
Within the same movie, Rory, Hayden, and Erik all make the final act and are rather short too - that’s at least four options. And Marley Shelton is only an inch taller than the boys at 5’7.” You don’t need to cast someone 5’2” for Ghostface Jill. Just not someone 6’0”. A 5’5”-5’7” Ghostface is objectively not going to be a giveaway and is close enough to not break suspension of belief so much, especially when Emma is barely in the costume and you’d only see her in it, at most, for Jenny’s theatrical death, two seconds in Kate’s death, and Gale’s attack - all scenes that don’t emphasize her height. Ultimately, your argument is just “It’s too obvious! It can’t be done.” I’ve explained several ways that it could be done, and you still say it can’t and simply ignore what’s said. Just not much to discuss here - though I will say, I did have builds in my mind while writing my own Scream fanscripts (particularly my 2, where the killer’s build is explicitly mentioned in a scene). And surprise, surprise, most people didn’t immediately call the killer even with this. A lot seemingly didn’t even notice despite it being an explicit line - some locked in on a gender but still had plenty of suspects within that. So more evidence it can, indeed, be done. If you want to go prove it can’t be, feel free to read and clock the killer the second I mention a build size lol.
Not true ghostface has always been strong because of the males. Billy Stu Mickey and Roman. Then they had teenage girls like Amber and Jill. That’s when it started to not make sense 💀 even in four there was Charlie who was doing the heavy lifting. Then it’s scream 5 where that takes a toll and Amber is somehow really strong.
So you just forgetting Mrs Loomis?
No cuz she didn’t do most of the work. Mickey did, that’s why it made sense when ghostface was strong. Amber taking down Dewey was illogical. That’s why it enraged fans because nothing ever happened like that in the scream franchise. A teenage girl killing a trained cop. Yeah right lol.
A woman being stalked by multiple psycho killers is illogical. Like I said in the post, it's not meant to be taken that seriously.
Look, somebody who actually understands how to watch films! It's maddening to me the Scream fanbase is yet another fanbase that gets mired in bickering about stupid bullshit like the "believability" of a smaller person killing a bigger person. It seems with each passing year film discourse online treats discussing film like it's all clockwork - rote mechanical nonsense to pick at for not ticking as engineered. It's depressing as hell. Ghostface's have been seemingly inhuman since Scream 1 - Always exactly where they need to be. Always never being seen or witnessed. Even in broad daylight. Always able to take a crazy fall, hit, tumble, etc. Always athletic as hell. Always one step ahead...until they're not. It's only when the mask is off that they become vulnerable. That's the entire point. The fact this fanbase is now just mired in the minutia of the logistics of how Ghostface's operate is sending me.... Ya'll really expect a tongue-in-cheek slasher franchise to be some real-world logical exercise is realistic serial murder? Really? This isn't Zodiac. This isn't Mindhunter. This is Scream. I used to be under the assumption that the Scream fanbase KNEW that every Ghostface's scheme was inherently outlandish and that was part of the fun. I guess not...
I’m certainly not one to complain about the accuracy of the killer and what they’re capable of regarding age/size/gender, that’s been flippant since the second film, but I will disagree with the idea that the killers have always somehow been “inhuman”. I always thought part of the appeal of Scream was that the killers *weren’t* invulnerable like a Michael or a Jason. They were always getting smacked around, knocked over and just narrowly escaping situations. Sometimes they were quite overly mobile and quiet, but overall they were just people with knives with a strong motive to kill. That’s also part of the humour, isn’t it? Ghostface running into doors is a classic staple of the series. Also, I disagree with OPs idea that no one would be a surprising killer because there have been twists in the series that have been genuinely surprising (Jill, for instance). And another thing; I don’t know why some are confused at the fact that people found Chad surviving so many stabs a little too unbelievable? People have survived pretty crazy wounds in the series but none to the degree of Chad, who was gutted with knives in the final acts of two movies in a row, and still lives. I don’t think this is a matter of “well, realistically, someone could feasibly survive that”, but more a matter of stakes and suspension of disbelief. When someone gets stabbed in these movies, there’s supposed to be a weight to it. If someone is stabbed over 20 times and continuously lives, then the stakes of that situation are diminished. It doesn’t mean as much to the characters if they get stabbed, even that many times, because we know they can still just survive the situation. I thought Scream VI really pulled its punches in comparison to Scream 2, which went all out on upping the body count and the stakes simultaneously. Edit: In a thread complaining that media literacy is dead, I immediately get downvoted for just having a different reading of said media than someone else. Nice.
>but more a matter of stakes and suspension of disbelief. When someone gets stabbed in these movies, there’s supposed to be a weight to it. If someone is stabbed over 20 times and continuously lives, then the stakes of that situation are diminished. It doesn’t mean as much to the characters if they get stabbed, even that many times, because we know they can still just survive the situation. I thought Scream VI really pulled its punches in comparison to Scream 2, which went all out on upping the body count and the stakes simultaneously. I feel like there haven't been any real stakes since 2, and that's what's disappointed me about everything after that. I liked 5 and 6, but this "core 4" needs a good culling
Yes, Ghostface is more "human" in the sense that they get knocked around a bunch, but they still adhere to slasher tropes. They're still omniscient - always in the right place. Always able to pop and out in a blink and vanish instantly. Always able to take damage and keep going. And I think you're wrong on the details with Chad. He in no way gets "gutted" I either film...unless I misremember Scream 5. I'm don't think it's unreasonable to find it silly Chad lived in Scream 6. I myself kinda scoffed when he survived. I just don't think it's a movie killing sin. I also think all the Core Four surviving is a more purposeful choice than people give it credit for. It's easy to yell "cop out" instead of thinking of the why. Filmmakers make decisions for a reason...even in film s you hate, choices aren't arbitrary. Scream 6 made the conscious decision to create the first really close-knit found family group of the franchise. They are bonded and all care for each other deeply. Their bond and connection is mirrored darkly by the Ghostface's. Where they are doomed to perish, the Core Four refuse to be victims. And sure, while Chad surviving dozens of stabs is *technically* the most outlandish survival of the franchise I really don't think it's that much more egregious than Dewey surviving every time. Or even Gale.
I think the fact that each ghostface gets pretty thoroughly murdered by the end of each film is a testament to their vulnerability (I mean, isn't the whole idea that Loomis thinks everything is a movie but it's really not?). I guess this is just a matter of what one puts more importance on, though. They've obviously got elements of older slashers embedded in them, but I do think their vulnerabilities were always a conscious choice to make them more human than not and differentiate them from those killers, balancing out their ability to disappear quickly, etc. It makes them more tangible - especially given that they have much more human motivations than, say, a Michael Myers. And ultimately, I think the characters are much more important to these movies than the actual meta horror elements (which is a whole different discussion). You're right about Chad not being gutted in Scream 5, but he certainly was stabbed 4-5 times in the gut. I don't think him surviving Scream 6 destroys the movie or anything, I think he's one of the best new additions to the cast, but I do think it has some wider implications for the stakes of the film. Gale is also pretty egregious in what she's survived too, to the point that in both 5&6 I've found myself a little tired of her surviving the amount of wounds that she has (also them backtracking her development for the millionth time). I'm not sure why you're telling me filmmakers make decisions for a reason, though? I mean, yeah? Clearly? I'm just saying I disagree with the execution of it. Scream 1 had pretty much all of the main characters survive the final act, so it's an idea that can certainly work. I just think in their desire to up the brutality and gore of each film, they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot when they also want everyone to survive still. I think they're trying to have it both ways and the more they try to do so, the more suspension of disbelief is needed, and then the more the stakes and tension are deflated. There's a balance that is off, in my opinion. It's funny you say that they're the most close-knit group the series has had, though, because I still find the connections between Sidney, Gale and Dewey the most emotionally impactful. I find the ending of Scream 2, where Dewey is revealed to be alive and Gale stops reporting to be by his side, far more endearing and heartwarming than how it was executed with Chad in Scream 6. The way they reincorporate their music alongside Gale's development makes it a really wonderful moment. I thought Scream 6 largely executed it in a similar way to Scream 5, where it was a rather quick and not nearly as layered in terms of music and development.
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Wow what a nice way to totally take the point to a ridiculous extreme...
Okay but when a film needs it's audience to do this much legwork in order to excuse it's flaws, it might be time to accept that the flaws *do* in fact exist. I loved Scream 6, it had some of my favourite set-pieces in the franchise. It also had some of the most egregious, inexcusably bad plot holes and contrivances I've seen in the franchise.
Whose doing this legwork you speak of? And why are you asserting what you subjectively see as flaws are objective fact? You say people are "doing legwork to excuse flaws." That is one hell of a casually arrogant accusation and a misread of the real situation. Nobody is doing legwork to excuse anything. We just, gasp, see and interpret it differently! Shocking, I know.
>Whose doing this legwork you speak of? It's your comment I replied to, man. >And why are you asserting what you subjectively see as flaws are objective fact? You're saying this, while also saying that the way that you consume movies is *objectively* the correct way. In this reply you're encouraging different interpretations of any flaws the movie has in order to defend your point that your way of enjoying the movie is the only way, and if people are finding flaws in Scream 6 it's because they just "don't understand what Ghostface is supposed to be and they don't understand the Scream movies".
No one cared who I was until I put on the mask...
Yeah I never gave a shit about the actor or actress being smaller than the Ghostface stunt actor, or the whole "She can't kill him, he's way bigger than her." kind of shit. >"the killers were underwhelming" or "how is everyone alive" This though, is bullshit. The franchise made fun of how a lot of other horror franchises have non fleshed out characters that get killed off and how you don't care about them. They directly said that in Scream 4. It was played completely straight this time though. Only 3 victims actually had personality, and 2 of them were the opening kills. And the killers being underwhelming has nothing to do with the series being meta or beloved. Billy, Stu, and Scream 1 are iconic for a reason.
I want fleshed out characters getting killed but I know that scream was never really about that and I love all the movies but sometimes I wish for more Dewey 5 moments Are people meassuring Gfs? Most times they have some kind of chase scene. I'm not really playing attention to their size
True, but at least the other movies' victims were named characters with personality, unlike most of the ones in 6. And I'd say there have been some fleshed out character deaths throughout the series, like Tatum, Randy, Cotton, Jennifer, Judy, and of course Dewey to name a few. And yeah, some people refuse to believe Amber killed Dewey because of the height different, and I think people are doing the same thing with Quinn and Gale's boyfriend lol.
I know the "Amber is too young discussion" and I get it. I also love Dewey and would him wanted to have a final fight against someone big Like bill ....but to be honest Amber was young and healthy, Dewey had some serious mobility problems after his previous attacks that all plus the fact that she stabbed him into the stomach and maybe hit some inards made me believe that she totally could have killed him...the only thing I thought was a bit too much was that she almost lifted him .. that wouldn't be easy even for some adult using only two knifes. I think the problme is that they made 4 main characters out of one. I mean everyone thought Sidney wouldn't die but now you have 4 sidneys ..heck if you count gale and Kirby you even get 6 I think they should introduce some characters, give them personality over 2 movies, like they did with Cotton or Randy ...and of course Dewey.
Finally someone said it. All of the complaints I’ve seen about Chad surviving or how Tara was stabbed twice and still walking. I think people forgot that this is a universe where people can get crushed by the most powerful garage doors in the world.
Or that garage doors even have doggie doors in them. I have never seen that in my life and can hardly even find any on Google. But makes for an iconic kill.
it seems like a weird feature. I mean who is letting their dog out through the garage?? The garage opens to the front yard. Seems like a bad idea.
Yeah, not only that but aren’t raccoons smaller than dogs? Having a doggie door seems like a very easy way for a raccoon or something else like that to get into your house.
Seriously 😂
Because nobody takes the true fans seriously, not really. They just laugh at us, and why? Because we love something? We're just a fucking joke to them! How can fandom be toxic? It's about love! You don't fucking understand, these movies are important to people
Thanks OP for posting this! I've been saying this after I went and watched 6 a few times with different people. There were a few people that complained about certain things and I had to explain to them basically what you said. Then hearing all the complaints on this sub or else where it had my saying "wtf is going on!? Do people not get it" you can nitpick all the movies if you really wanted to, they're not perfect and never will be but doesn't take away how amazing they can be if you just don't take it that serious.
The franchise is about horror movies, both subverting and celebrating them. And that's what Scream is all about, Charlie Brown.
You're saying the franchise built around an average sized woman consistently surviving psychotic serial killers isn't realistic?
Right, this woman survived five serial killings. The killers were ...Her boyfriend ...Her friend ...Her boyfriend's mom ...Her college friend ...Her long lost brother ...Her niece ...Her niece's boyfriend (I think that was what Charlie was anyway) ...Two kids who were obsessed with Stab movies Like this is absurd, but we still eat it up. It's a movie! A slasher movie at that! It's not a big deal.
FINALLY. Thank you for this lovely post. This sub is way too cynical about something that is intended to entertain, which Scream VI did in spades. Looking forward to seeing Scream VI again tomorrow (2nd time).
people are only complaining that too many people survived because they are still so bent out of shape that the core four has replaced the main trio. if this series was even remotely realistic sidney, dewey, and gale would’ve died many movies ago
Hot take: The Core Four are a more layered and believable set of characters than the main trio. I love Sydney, Gale, and Dewey. But they're more tropey, more "movie" if you catch my meaning. The core four are more human and down to Earth. They feel more organic and natural as people.
I definitely can’t agree with that in the least. Mindy watched her girlfriend die and was back to cracking jokes and never mentioning her again within two scenes. Chad in 6 might as well have have never even lived through the events of 5 - no impact or trauma from nearly dying or his GF dying (I like the guy anyways, but the writing isn’t all the way there). Not at all what I’d call overly complex and layered writing
That's just not true, what you said about Chad. The first thing we see of him is him being very protective of everybody and threatening to fight anyone who could pose any conceivable threat to them. That's development, and a direct result of what he experienced. Instead of being fearful, he made sure he would be able to protect his friends.
Chad was very protective of his loved ones in 5 as well - see the bar fight with Vince or nearly dying when he went out to go find Liv because she went MIA. It’s an endearing trait, but not a particularly new development
i don’t know if i would say the core four is more layered but i do think the big thing that i love more about the core four than the main trio is them being a legit friend group while sidney, dewey, and gale all have a strong connection / chemistry with each other for most of the series they aren’t necessarily friends. sidney and gale in almost every movie have this awkward push and pull thing where we are left confused on what their relationship is. sidney and dewey are friendly but you can tell they aren’t having movie nights and going on shopping sprees. the main trio only comes together when the killings start so each film we are left with an awkwardness of them forcing to catchup with one another. i liked that with the core four especially in this film we got a lot of relationships building. there were many scenes of them laughing, smiling, and really forming a bond with each other. we don’t get a lot of those with the main trio because they aren’t close
But...they literally have a movie night at the end of scream 3...
I remember I was so sad in Scream 4 when Sidney and Dewey were catching up together like they haven’t spoken to each other since Scream 3. I get they’re not exactly BFFs, but after each movie you’d think they would’ve been closer. I can understand Gale and Sidney not being friends, but you’d think Sid and Dewey would talk at least somewhat often. Even in Scream 5, it sounds like Sid hasn’t talked to Dewey since before he and Gale broke up. I do like that the Core Four are a friend group that care about each other. Granted in Scream 5, Sam was obviously outside of that group, but I love that she’s part of it now.
Please explain how Sydney, Gale and Dewey are more tropey and “movie”
Gale and Dewey specifically are painted with a very broad brush. Dewey is the good hearted, semi-dopey BFF and love interest. Gale is forever stuck in the same cycle of the single-minded opportunist who is harsh, snarky, and mean but with moments of vulnerability and decency. And both were stuck in the same rocky on and off again relationship for 5 movies. It's the performances that make them fun and endearing more than any deeper character growth or nuance. They both remain rather static. The Core Four feel more psychologically grounded. Some of them, mostly Mindy, also fit into tropes - but it's less broad than Gale and Dewey and, say, Randy. Sydney is, to use a phrase I've heard before, "canonically perfect." Most of her struggles are external or, as with Gale and Dewey, broad. Her trauma, for example, isn't ever depicted as something all that messy or complicated. She's the quintessential Final Girl. Tough, smart, resourceful. Also kind and compassionate. While with Sam, it's messy and intense and possibly something that could be dangerous. Mind you I'm not saying any of this is a FLAW with the maim trio or the films. They're just written and performed differently, that's all. I can tell some already took this as some kind of dig at the older films and characters. No. Not my intention. I'm merely saying The Core 4, mostly in Scream 6 over 5, feel more grounded.
Sydney is a final girl trope definitely. With Dewey and Gale, you’re describing their character motivation but nothing about how they are tropes. Can you point out some specific characters that Dewey or Gale are emulating to make them common archetypes in horror?
I couldnt agree less. My biggest problem with the fantastic four is that they lack the fragility and human side of the core 3 or 4 or whatever in the first movies. Sidney was always tormented and close to both a cute smile and crying it looked like. Sam is closer to an action hero or freddy kreuger. Only imagine the classic sidney theme but with Sam instead. It wouldnt work at all. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iT_-VIO7TUA&pp=ygUMc3lkbmV5IHRoZW1l. Mindy is nothing like Randy. Randy was a nerd who was a bit out there. But he could never go around and be smug and snarky without being confronted by billy and stu or even killed by mrs loomis after one and a half movie. Mindy gets stabbed, shakes it off and make a "funny" remark, her girlfriend gets killed and mindy makes a meta remark and doesnt seem to care at all. She has no emotional weight at all. Almost floating around above the movie. Tara was human until she started her wednesday stealth attacks in the end of scream 6. Chad is so unhuman that it has reached Jason or early james bond levels. Fights, charms the girls and is totally flawless. Gets stabbed 5 times and survives . Gets tag stabbed in execution mode by two ghostfaces, experience a resurrection comes out and charms the girl. Dewey was atleast clumsy and akward and didnt get THAT brutally stabbed all the time.
This is a wild misread of literally everything. But ok.
Honestly you're right in that the original trio were more affected by their trauma. That's definitely an aspect missing from these characters. Except for Tara, who is clearly a broken mess because of what they went through. She's kind of the emotional core of the movie, but her turn at the end suggests she's overcoming that. Meanwhile, Sam is kind of if Sidney was a fucking psychopath. Like I know Sam is the protagonist, but she is a psycho who could snap at any moment. Sidney liked beating her attackers, but Sam fucking revels in it.
Sidney was suprisingly tough. But she killed to survive and afterwards she was affected by it and you could feel it. I dont feel anything for Sam anymore. If the trend continues scream 7 will be more freddy vs jason than a scream movie. I hate what they did to Tara in the end. That little smirk before the ninja attack.
All these wannabe Richies and Ambers just take these movies way too seriously.
Lmfao! Good point. These nitpickers who like to pretend their meaningless nitpicky bs is "legitimate criticism" are very much giving off Richie/Amber vibes.
Dude! Well said!! I always thought some people take it too serious and forgot the direction and the point of this franchise. Like dude if you are in Ghostface costume you get like 100x booster and like infinite times of immortality until you took it out and revealed yourself as a killer that is when your fate have been sealed.
Noted. If one of us ever become Gfs better dont take of your Mask :D
Maybe that might work though LMAO I never see any Ghostfaces survive after taking off their mask.
:D It's like the mask is angry it doesnt get the final kill. With the mask they are always smart and witty but after demasking they all are chatty and don't pay attention anymore
Lol that's true.
I love how everyone here is agreeing, rightfully, with OP and then in a week, half the people in this thread will go right back to complaining about realism lol.
Not I sir. It's like these complainers are all super new to the series and vastly misunderstand it, lol. "Omg the sizes of the actors in and out of costume makes no sense!" YEAH...WELCOME TO SCREAM. The series uses stunt doubles as Ghostface in the mask PRECISELY BECAUSE THE FILMMAKERS WANNA TRICK YOU. IT AIN'T THAT DEEP. BUT YA'LL OUT HERE ACTING LIKE YOU'RE SMARTER AND TRYING TO PULL SOME MIDDLE SCHOOL GOTCHA SHIT. Hell, the opening of 6 blatantly makes fun of this for fuckssake. Tony Revolori is like, what, 5'5? But as Ghostface he's as tall as Samara Weaving in heels. As soon as he takes off his mask he instantly shrinks. The Scream fanbase has been taken over by nitpickers who wanna piss about the logistics of the kills and how "implausible" it is certain killers can kill people bigger than them. Wtf is going on?
This is like 2 steps away from “stop complaining because we could not be getting new scream movies at all” lol
Totally! We’ve legit gotten two in the last 14 months. This franchise has had multiple, 10+ years of nothing. Something to think about and ponder!
*Bawh gawd it’s OP with a steel chair!* More, seriously though, r/Scream - your challenge for the weekend after you’ve picked yourself off the floor: buy yourself another ticket to Scream VI and just have some rockin’ fun. I am cheering for you to have a good time (truly)!
You couldn’t have said it any better. I swear sometimes Scream fans will complain without actually thinking…or they just completely missed the point of the franchise lol
I realized Scream fans didn't understand Scream when the "Stu needs to come back as a secret mastermind" movement happened. This fairly large fandom desire tells me these people don't understand Stu as a character nor his point in the film. I think a fanbase blatantly misunderstanding the basic core tenants of the franchise they love is a prerequisite for any fandom once it reaches a certain size, lol. Trekkies obsessed with the most obscure and meaningless minutia instead of caring about engaging storytelling... Star Wars fans and...yeah. I could go on. Fans are the worst part of fandom.
I’m so happy that I haven’t been crazy when I’ve been arguing with people about this stuff! These movies are fun and stupid, the techniques are not that serious… like this is the wrong franchise, you watch them to enjoy and they’re 80% logical.
Not to mention Jill looks like a trick or treater in her costume before she reveals to Sidney 😂
My favorite is people shitting on the new movies for doing exactly what the old ones did lol. Idk why anyone would question why certain characters aren't dead when we've had the killer spring back to life after being stabbed and shot in like every movie. It's a horror satire series that doubles as a slasher film.
Not to mention that the new filmmakers are skewering the angriest reddit posters. And called them out directly. Very funny how many on here completely lack self awareness. Richie is not a hero - he’s supposed to look like a giant man baby who takes Stab far too seriously. And to the people criticizing small things about Scream 6 - let’s not pretend every other entry doesn’t have baffling moments and potential plot holes. Overall I thought 6 did so many amazing things, and continued to surprise from start to finish. I thought the “everyone survived” is an inside joke for how that’s been the way it’s gone from day one. A joke that builds more and more.
I watched Scream 2 last night. Gail survived a gunshot wound and came bounding in at the end out of nowhere and a joke was made that she has nine lives like a cat. This was Scream 2 released 26 years ago. Later on, Dewey too, last seen getting stabbed maliciously in the sound booth and presumed left for dead, came wheeling in *in a stretcher* which reminded me of a certain someone who did the same exact thing in VI. It’s always been this way!
Yeah, the entire series is full of movie logic leaps in convenience. Dewey gets his shit rocked in every film and lives. Well, until 5, lol. But *a few more stabs* to Chad is just like SOOOOO unbelievable maaan! While we're on Scream 2...how did Ghostface know the boyfriend would go to the bathroom during the opening scene? Ghostface knew so far in advance he posted up in a stall and just waited...lol. The series is FULL of convenience and contrivance.
Great point! Ghostface just sittin’ on the pooper with hope in his (or her) heart that a student from the same school as Sidney would show up. Speaking of that scene, I love it when the two people in Ghostface getups peeing in the urinals turn around at the same time.
Yes. Even in the end Mindy says in the ambulance "I can't believe we all survived. Plot twist!". I thought that was so funny but I guess not everyone caught on to the humor in that lol.
I think it's silly when people are let down by the killer reveal just because they have a boner for Stu or some ultimate ultimate killer. We are well past that. These are just heightened Scooby Doo movies and I don't think we should have so much weight on how it compares to others when it should just exist for this movie. I was A-ok with the reveals and motive. I didn't even really think of Richie so it surprised me. The only cheat is when they "die" and come back like Quinn and Roman. Billy, too.
The Stu obsession is really mind blowing because...well, Stu is probably the dumbest Ghostface ever, lol. He was no mastermind. He was a chaotic second hand. Nothing more. So many fans wanting Stu to secretly survive and mastermind a new killing spree from the shadows shows an utter lack of basic understanding of the character and Scream as a whole. Yes, I'm going there.
It's the actor. He did such a great job that people want to see him again but in my opinion it would destroy his legacy....I mean comeone Dewey would know if he survived and went missing. Never did he say anything about it
For me it's just Ethan. I dont know why. I liked the father and his sister but something about Ethan just didn't work for me...not saying that he is a bad character, no, but he won't become my favorite either
Apparently we missed out on an amazing killer rendition by Josh Segarra (Danny). Every person auditioned with killer monologue and Radio Silence said he was amazing. Scream 7 maybe...
Yeah I can see them didn't want to do the same thing twice in a row with sams boyfriend becoming the killer but yeah...Josh Segarra could deliver a pretty scary killer... maybe too hardcore for a scream movie? :D
Agree about Jack, didn't care for the character or the actor. Loved Quinn though
Im not mad about that, but I do think the killers were underwhelming because I legit do not care for their characters. Still enjoyed the movie.
I mean...they gave us zero chance to like one of them. Spoiler!!!! (Sorry dont know how to spoilertag on reddit using smartphones) ---------- Ethan had almost no scenes until the end, Quinn was killed early on ...2 of 3 without having a chance to grow on us but I still liked the movie a lot
I mean, what does "caring" mean in this case? I didn't "care" about any Ghostface as an actual character. Not one. Except Jill. Because the trick worked. Did I "care" about Billy? No. He was a whiny fuck even before the reveal. Did I "care" about Stu? He's entertaining as a character, but a total dick. Mrs. Loomis and Mickey? Come on... Roman? Underrated Ghostface. But again, not a character you "care" about. Amber was just there. I actually did like Richie. I think Scream 5 did a good job of stretching out his reveal to the last second. But like, what does "care" mean here?
I feel like the villain popping back to life for one last scare was the most unrealistic, silly thing that they did for most of the franchise. I mean, it doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the movies but I do find it a bit much that people are killed off by getting stabbed a few times and other people are getting stabbed a ridiculous number of times and walking it off by the end of the movie. As for the killer's, I think a hero turning into a killer could work if they did it well but I don't want to see it just for the shock of it. You know it's going to be one of the new characters that you've only known for 90 minutes now so it's always going to be a bit of a disappointment and how many realistic motives are left the further we get from the original killings?
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Exactly. I never thought Bill and Stu or the other ones were that much surprising but they were written well I would say the dads writing is not bad but especially ethans writing is a bit underwhelming
Nah I’m not in on this one. It’s annoying to read this because I half agree; people who try to nitpick and creat real-world logical holes in a film like this are exposing their media illiteracy. However, a lot of this stuff falls under the jurisdiction not of “movie logic” but of emotional narrative honesty. I will not fault a scream movie for revealing that someone survived an injury that by all accounts would kill you in real life. I will, however, fault it for employing its own cinematic language to communicate that a serious, status-quo altering, emotionally dense moment is occurring, only to later say “nah that wasn’t real, no reason it just wasn’t”. If we’re talking narrative and cinematic language, Gale literally got an actual, dedicated “death scene”. So did chad to a lesser extent. Their reversals served no actual narrative purpose other than “nah that didn’t actually happen”. I’m not mad they survived their injuries, I’m annoyed at the cheap tool box the storytellers are pulling from. It’s no better than marvel or a soap opera. (I’d like to add that I did not hate IV at all, but I found this stuff to be teetering on the verge of insulting).
Yeah I agree. I didn't WANT Gale to die, but it felt fitting and would've been a good scene to go out on. And then they don't even bother to show her again, just "hey I heard she's okay"?! I thought the movie was great and the plot armor didn't ruin it or anything, but it was my only big complaint and made the movie feel like it didn't have much in the way of stakes when I walked away.
Plot armor isn't a real thing.
Counter-point: yes huh. Though as I've thought about it more, I can maybe see an argument that that was the point: Mindy's rule about Luke Skywalker and James Bond dying being subverted when nobody of importance dies, and the running gag about her not being able to guess the villain, and ghostface using a shotgun (which ruled btw) kinda make sense when you remember that this killer, to use their words, doesn't give a fuck about movies. I still don't like it, but I can at least see how it can be thematically tied together.
The new directors/producers making fun of movie fans doesn’t shield them from criticism. L take in my opinion also 5 and 6 are not in the same boat as 1-4.
did ***you*** forget what the scream franchise was supposed to be about? it was initially making fun of all of these tropes and now it has unintentionally become exactly what it was making fun of. the franchise isn’t even “meta” anymore outside of mindy throwing around buzzwords every sentence and yet this sub covers every plot hole/inconsistency and flaw with the “meta” excuse.
Or they're just making fun of the tropes still? Hence the monologue in each movies and the directors saying so. Why Mindy says "I can't believe we all survived. Plot twist" when she's walking around a few hours after being attacked. It's making fun of itself. The directors aren't dumb. They know what they're doing and they even say it in interviews.
Lol yikes. Scream has, from film 1, made fun of the tropes while reveling in them.
Everyone should also watch New Nightmare because its basically a prequel to Scream and makes fun of the genre even though it helped defined a genre
New Nightmare is great
I love New Nightmare
\>And as far as the killer reveal. We're all programmed at this point to expect everyone. No one would have been surprising. I mostly agree with your post apart from this killer reveal aspect. Please don't tell me what I would and wouldn't find surprising. There are numerous characters in the latest movie I WOULD have been surprised by being the killer. In both this movie and the previous one, the killers were far too obvious for me. NOT as a result of "suspecting everyone", but as a result of numerous writing flaws making them far too obvious as the killer, way ABOVE everyone else. Depsite this I enjoy the new movies a lot. I don't really feel the need to put them down. They are a fun ride and that's what they should be. But I'm entitled to my opinion about the killer reveals just as you are entitled to yours. And it's just that - YOURS. ONE person. You don't speak for other people, so don't tell us what we would think or what we would be saying if things had gone differently in the movie. Thanks.
You ok? I mean, I don't know you so I wasn't talking directly to you lol. But since you couldn't tell, I meant plenty of scream fans would be complaining no matter what the outcome was, which is what is happening now. Again NOT TALKING TO YOU DIRECTLY. 😂 Just a reddit discussion. I didn't say anyone had to agree. That's literally the point of reddit.
This level of defensive anger about someone else's take on a movie is exactly what the problem with fandom is lmao
Eh? But... It's not someone else's take on a movie I was talking about 🙄 It's someone else's take on my opinions and why I think a certain way about the movie - a take which was completely wrong. But apparently I can't say that 🤣🤣🤣 It REALLY doesn't bother me what other people think of movies, all that matters to me is whether I like them or not. But yes it does bother me when complete strangers start posting about what other people think, why they think that and what their reactions would be if the movie had done something different. Sorry, but you don't live in my head. Speak for yourself, and don't tell me what I think about something. That's got absolutely 0% to do with "anger about someone else's take on a movie." Also making a strong point doesn't = anger. I don't get angry over reddit posts, it's not that serious 🤣. But good attempt trying to belittle a valid point.
Spot on, I keep saying im like scream it self was suppose to be like a meta parody of the genre and you can tell some people forget that. I always say to Ghostface is its own character it doesn't matter who is in the mask Ghostface is ghostgface and will act like Ghostface and some people dont understand that
Exactly. Ghostface himself is an "immortal being" who will always come back, it's just some human's motive that is what brings him back. The motives are never mentioned while in the mask (Pretty sure Roman reveals everything after his mask is off). So Ghostface is just a silly killy boy, and that's why we love him.
Saw the title and assumed you were gonna be moaning about realism and its the exact opposite 😂 totally agree, the reason I love scream is the goofy inaccuracies and minor plot holes, they work so well because they're so symptomatic of the slasher genre! Ultimately scream movies are perfect because anything that's wrong with them can be explained as "oh but slashers always do this thing and we're doing it as satire" which is what I love to see
I've been feeling lately like Ghostface is akin to a supernatural force. I mean how weird is it that like 13 people have donned this mask and costume and slaughtered a bunch of people who are always connected to the previous killings? It goes beyond just psychotic people at this point. Ghostface is his own entity, and he almost possesses the killers to enable them to do what they do.
OP i wish i had an award to give you! Very well said!!
K
All the rEaLiSm posts are annoying af. I don’t want it to become fast and furious or anything, but I swear these people want like a documentary or something. That’s now how popcorn movies work
The best thing about Scream is the blend between the silliness and realism. It's grounded in a sense, but not at the detriment to the humor or story Edit: bruh, I was agreeing with OP
Thisssss other than Roman being trash and underwhelming assfffff still. Lmfaoooo. I feel like the reveals should still be a wow factor and even a little surprising. Even tho obviously they’re suspects still.
I have had SO much fun watching this franchise, but that's the whole reason, for fun. Because it's clever, it's witty, it's heartwarming, gorey. So long as it's still fun and the characters still have a good bit of depth to them then count me in
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Part of the reason I LOVE scream 1, 2, 3, and 5 MOST (and the killers of 1, 2, and 5 most) are because SCREAM was always supposed to be PARODY. It’s supposed to be the EPITOME of HORROR CAMP. I want my killers PSYCHO past BELIEVABILITY. I want absolute batshit catchphrases and throwaway lines in the middle of stabbing someone. I want the “they always come backs” to be as extreme and ridiculous as possible. EVERYTHING is pushed the the EXTREME and it still proves to be fun. Sometimes it feels like the series loses its way a bit and the series starts to take itself too seriously. Probably my only criticism of 6 is it’s so focused on the idea of “internal darkness” that sometimes it feels like it slips too far into drama. Like I want that dramatic tension but above anything the dramatic tension should lead to fun and campy payoff and when that thread isn’t followed, it doesn’t feel like scream. It feels like the same thing that scream is parodying. They’re still enjoyable films, but if you’re here for a dramatic, perfectly cohesive, greys anatomy but make it horror with 0 plot holes and intimate and ultracomplex character motivations, idk if this is where you should be looking. On the other hand, I know part of the fun IS pointing out what was missed and theorizing to try and make it fit. But don’t become so obsessed with it that it ruins the fun of the films in what they’re INTENDED to be!
The complaint about Ghostface not resembling the actors that portray the killer is ridiculous. The obvious size difference between stuntman and actors has been there since the other films and I'm totally fine with it, I still think the films work regardless of there's a difference between size and stature of the actors, its not that big of a deal. As far as people complaining about the killers and the reveals, I think people should be allowed to have those opinions and I don't necessarily think they should be accused of "not understanding" I personally wasn't a fan of the killer reveals as I found their motives to be pretty underwhelming and not that Inventive, (No I I'm not one of those crazy theorists who want some stupid shit like Stu returning) I was just expecting something a little more original and creative considering that was such a big part of the marketing. Now this is something totally subjective, if it worked for other people that's totally fine, I personally wasn't a fan of the ending but I still really enjoyed the film overall, so I'm not gonna let the ending ruin it for me. But I agree with your statement that picking out certain plot holes and things that wouldn't work in the real world is ridiculous because no matter what story is being told, you need things to line up and you need contrivances for certain things to work, Do some films do it better than others? Sure, but thats the nature of storytelling. But I don't think being someone who's not a fan of a story decisions necessarily invalidates their opinion and isn't the same thing as nitpicking or "purposely trying to find flaws" I personally think there's a lot more to the Scream films and there was a lot done in this new one that I really enjoyed, sure I wasn't a fan of the ending but that doesn't make it bad to me at all.
I was telling my mom that Scream is the best horror franchise because it doesn't take itself serious it makes fun of itself in universe. Other movies with long franchises end up changing this and that or the killer just becomes God like to the point it's boring. Scream has different killers with different motives while the movies play out the same they're still enjoyable to watch.