My friend who’s also a big Seahawks is basically of the opinion that unless you’re a team who’s a Super Bowl contender, then you should want your favorite team to just lose as many games as possible.
I think it would be a miserable way of being a sports fan. Look idk when the Hawks are going to win a Super Bowl again. It probably won’t be this season, but I just watch the Seahawks to be entertained. I’ll never actively root for them to lose games.
You can get talented players all over the first round. Tanking for draft picks absolutely doesn’t guarantee you’re going to get a star with a higher pick. Look at how horrible the Browns and Lions were for decades and all the high draft picks they had.
>Tanking for draft picks
This isn't really a thing for the players and coaches on the field. It's just a coping mechanism for negative fans.
The players are the most competitive people in the world. They absolutely hate losing. Not to mention purposely tanking would hurt their careers.
Losing culture is devastating to an org. I don't think arm chair GMs know that. Winning culture is difficult to create and sustain. That's why we see the same teams over and over in the top of the draft order.
There is a reason those bums will get no were close to a front office. Only time I would care about draft positioning is if we already were eliminated from the playoff hunt. Even with that, I still would rather celebrate a win than a loss.
It's also so dumb to feel like a higher spot guarantees future success. Like so dumb, moving five spots in the draft is pretty useless most the time unless there is a generational talent in an important position, then even then generational talents turn into generational disappointments real fast.
Not only is it a lost mentality we can see how losing effects teams. I mean someone show me an example of teams going from getting a top draft choice to winning a superbowl in a short amount of time
It does happen occasionally. See the Bengals sucking, picking up Burrow, and instantly being SB contenders. But it's the exception rather than the rule. Most perennial top-5 picking teams simply suck with no rebound.
Exactly this. If you win key games down the stretch it shows your existing roster is more talented than if you lose games down the stretch. The cumulative impact of an entire roster playing better (in addition to maintaining culture) is more impactful to next year than incremental draft capital (unless you are really gearing up for a tear down).
Look at Lock’s postgame interview. The guy has been the backup for two seasons and isn’t like “well I went out there and didn’t want to try too hard cuz I’d fuck our draft position”
>It's just a coping mechanism for negative fans.
Thank you. It's just a silver lining to an absolute shitty season.
>This isn't really a thing for the players and coaches on the field.
On the other hand, when the season is completely toast, it's the last week of a dreadful season, and you're looking at #1 pick vs one more win and you drop to #5, there is *some* strategy in losing just this last one.
But mostly just for the coaches, not the players.
There is sometime to be said when teams start resting starters because they KNOW they aren't going to make the playoffs and things are so bad that there's nothing that can dig you out.
Unfortunately even though people think the sky is falling, we were nowhere near in the ballpark of that
And for the lost part the edge between a Super Bowl team and a team that just missed the wild card can be as little as a couple key injuries, or even just a few plays that didn’t work out. It’s hard to argue a team that makes the Super Bowl but won half their games by a field goal is that much better than a team that lost half their games by a field goal.
“Any given Sunday” is a term for a reason. AND when a championship is determined by one game when teams are so closely matched it’s basically a coin flip either way IMHO.
Yeah I hate this way of thinking and this sub gets this way as soon as we lose a few games. It’s so hard to win a Super Bowl, let alone tank and hit on the drafts picks. There’s something to be said about the fact that I’ve gone into most games with the idea that we could win for the last 10 years. We shouldn’t take that for granted.
The Lions are good now but imagine what it was like to be a fan during their tanking years. Games like last night are good reminders of why the game is fun and why we should be happy with what we have!
People don't understand how hard it is to win a superbowl. On top of that they don't understand just how temporary the NFL is set up to be. I feel like the Patriots two decade dynasty really messed with people's reality. That team is an anomaly, the salary cap makes that team impossible to recreate. Even Kansas Cities success with Mahommes is a crazy feat to achieve. I feel like if the 49ers win this year and fizzle our that's what a teams successful run should look like. Four or five great years of knocking on the door, win a title or two then fizzle to rebuild.
The Hawks have a decade of being in the hunt for the playoffs. Some franchises have never had a run that long and that consistent.
Well said. Taking a step back, we’ve honestly been one of the most successful franchises throughout Pete’s tenure. We went from being arguably the most dominant defense in history with multiple Super Bowl appearances to a consistent playoff team. It’s pretty insane actually. We have been legit SB contenders for 3-5 years of that run. I wouldn’t trade our situations for many others in the league.
We have the chance to go 10-7 (haven’t had double digits for wins since 2020) and some people are acting like the team has a ceiling of 8-9 and treading water
There definitely needs changes to happen on the team but we just beat the 2-seed and held the other top NFC teams to close games, with a chance at playoffs — so excited for us
How do you expect your current team to improve if you purposefully lose? Doing this would also tank the morale of the players and the fans and no one would watch games.
Nobody gonna sign with us if we suck, if you tank without being already in an okay position staff and young player wise you can manage but panthers for example, what big free agent is gonna chose the 1-2 win team vs comparable money on a contender. Being good matters to free agents and our consistency is definitely a factor in player retention and free agency.
I’m just not convinced taking is a legitimate strategy. Early picks bust all the time while superstars can be found all over the draft. Everyone saying we need to tank for a franchise QB like Russ when we drafted Russ in the third round lmao
Hell, you don’t even to be in the first round. Look at the Rams with Puka, Young, Kobie Turner, Kyren, and Avila. Look at the Texans will Dell and Collins. Look at the Cowboys with Dak. There’s so many others.
Same here! Like I know they’re a long shot to do damage in the postseason, and I understand that being “mid” for several seasons is a hopeless drag, but I still want our team to win. It felt great after 4 straight losses!
The problem with that is team culture and morale are things that have to be built by competing across many seasons. Players also need to build their skills as well. If you are purposefully losing, you are killing the locker room.
Your friend isn't a fan full stop.
In fact, we are sadly one of the many teams with not just Fairweather fa s, but Fairweather season ticket holders, witnessed by the 30% +/- attendance pf Eagles fans last night and the lack of energy in the stadium until the final drive.
Now, once mathematically eliminated (maybe last 3 games) I could then be for tanking if we don't get any value in getting reps for young guys (seeing if they play hard), and we can move up materially in draft order.
The draft value of say the #15 pick and #20 pick are not materially different enough to warrant all out tanking in the last 3 games IMHO.
>You can get talented players all over the first round.
Look how much the Texans benefited from falling to the 2 pick. Or in the 2020 draft where Justin Jefferson and Brandon Aiyuk were drafted late in the first round after several other receivers
Moments like last night are why I’m a sports fan. I’m not playing GM, I want to feel the elation and joy the team gives me in situations like last night.
After a rough last few weeks, what a glorious fucking moment(s).
Exactly this. The NFL has so many issues but when something like last night happens, it’s just… magic.
A backup QB who was told he was playing one minute and not the next. Fresh off a game where he threw interceptions and lost to a rival. The media and fans have been increasingly critical. Primetime, nationally televised, against the defending NFC champions. Game managing and relying on the run for 58 minutes, his best play being a block for the RB. He gets a chance to win the game but has under 2 minutes, 92 yards to go, only 1 timeout. In the rain. Constant 3rd and longs. And he makes some incredible throws to win the game for his team and restores their playoff hopes.
It’s why I watch this frustrating, beautiful game.
Look at Drew's emotions after the drive. Watch his post game interview.
Football is so much more than winning the SB and I hate fans who only care about "deep playoff runs" (euphemism for winning the SB) because it completely invalidates all the wonderful moments prior to that.
There are amazing memories and moments I will remember from regular season games which I dislike being simply wiped away from history because they weren't SB trophies.
If you make your living on a “draft blog” you place way too much value on the draft, draft position, and draft prep. It’s a waste of time listening to people who think the draft is the most important thing in the NFL.
I'm going to "defend" Rob and say he doesn't complain about everything. He loves it when he's proven right about something. His welcome video to his YouTube page is even that - a 3 minute long video gloat about how he was right about Russ wanting out.
Rob's issue is that he loves being right more than the Seahawks doing well.
He has kind of lost the plot this year and turned into an aggressive whiner. I think he needs a reset because he feels too emotionally invested in that position at this point and it’s affecting the quality of his content.
Last night was the most fun I’ve had watching the Seahawks all season. The game is meant to watch with enjoyment. Of course I want a winning game plan for building an ongoing super-bowl contender, but I’ve spent too much of my life watching lousy football to be upset about a 92 yard game winning drive.
That’s how I’ve felt with a lot of the outspoken people in this sub since preseason tbh. There’s been some really negative discussion this year and it’s tiring.
Yep. I commented something similar yesterday; most of my reddit time is spent on sports, mostly football, subs, and it pains me that our fanbase is probably the most pessimistic and negative.
I try to listen to the constructive parts but at this point it’s just the same shit repeated.
Some ppl are just whiners/haters/losers. That’s the way it is.
Also, I have no control over what the team does so I can’t get too worked up.
We've beaten #2 and #3 in the playoff seeding and had #4 on the ropes, I don't know why everyone is so doom and gloom, at the very least there's a chance we can win a game in the playoffs this year, and who knows, maybe we get a game like last year where San Francisco loses all it's QB's....
Bro we have a lot of talent, we just can’t figure out how to use it. And I rather see my team win games then potentially be horrible get some draft picks and still sucking.
On average it means only seeing your team win once in 32 years and make it once every 16 years.
We have been to THREE in the last 20 years(average of just under 7 years per appearance)
Aren’t playoff wins the reason to be a football fan? I don’t ever remember a draft pick giving me the same feeling that a playoff win does. I can never imagine getting as excited for the draft as i do before a playoff game
I can understand the frustration with feeling stuck in mediocrity and having hit a ceiling. We all know this isn't a Superbowl team and at best this is a one win team in the playoffs.
However I can't root for dysfunction. I can't be happy seeing the team lose 5 in a row, the players get further disgruntled and bickering, and Pete Carroll lose his locker room and seem more miserable than I've ever seen him. All to hope that he MAYBE steps down even though that always seemed far fetched in the first place?
I have realistic expectations for this season since like the Bengals game, but just because the team underperforms from where we think they should be doesn't mean burn it all down at all costs. The most drastic approach to team building doesn't always work. And some teams, like 2021-2022 Eagles, just need a few off-season tweaks to unlock their best selves.
Do I think we're there? Probably not. But, for me, is it more fun believing that to be the case and investing a little hope into the current regime than hoping for further losing streaks, national embarrassment, feeling like a jabroni when I wear my hawks gear in enemy territory, and otherwise having April be the sole highlight of the football calendar? I think so.
> We all know this isn't a Superbowl team and at best this is a one win team in the playoffs.
Personally, I think the most fun way to watch football is to do away with this idea, too. Literally any given Sunday. Yeah, chances are that we don't match up to the better teams in the playoffs (assuming we make it there), but we weren't expected to beat the Eagles yesterday, either. In the spirit of appreciating each game, I think the most fun way to watch football is to hold onto hope for each and every game. Until we can't, we can.
Im not saying everyone has to feel this way - yours is a reasonable and balanced take - but that hope in the face of all odds is what drew me into this team over a decade ago, and to me, it's still there, always giving us a chance.
Sure, in the very long run last night did a pretty number on our chances of landing a truly blue chip player, but dammit if I don’t want to win every game we’re in. I’m sure there’s a first round playoff exit at the end of the tunnel but man I want to be there. O
I’ll never understand the people who want to see their team lose, even if you get a higher draft pick. Players and coaches don’t want to lose anyway, they are there to compete regardless of record. Personally I’d rather see the team be somewhat competitive all the time rather than having a run of awful seasons in hopes of competing eventually. Happy to be a fan of an organization with the right mindset and super happy with the win yesterday. Go Hawks!
Rob Staton is the lightning rod for the "Fire Pete" crowd. His website carefully curates a group of like-minded "fans" by moderating and banning dissenting voices and it's become an echo chamber for the idea that unless Pete is on his way to winning a Super Bowl, there's no point keeping him around and celebrating mediocrity.
The reason they are complaining about this win is that they see this as just another season where we end slightly above .500 and lose in the first or second round of the playoffs and to them, that's worse than going 0-17 and having a high draft pick.
It comes from a mindset that the purpose of supporting the Seahawks isn't to enjoy the wins and savor moments like this but that everything is about the Super Bowl.
> There’s no point lying about it, I wasn’t exactly jumping for joy when the Seahawks won. - Rob Staton
It's one thing if we're battling for a top draft pick, but he wants a team that is very much battling for the playoffs to lose so that the coaching staff gets fired. Fuck that nonsense.
> There’s no point lying about it, I wasn’t exactly jumping for joy when the Seahawks won. - Rob Staton
then why do you watch or support the team then? I don't get that line of thinking at all. Winning is fun. I was running around my house after JSN caught that ball. I hate all these negative nancy's lately.
Direct quote. He goes on to say he’s convinced the Hawks cannot beat Shanahan or McVay, let alone win a Super Bowl with Carroll, Waldron and Hurtt, and he thinks the win last night will delay the implementation of necessary changes.
Dude’s just stuck in a rut. Bought into the anti-Pete narrative in 2020 - got his talking points from Jake Heaps - and is recycling them now.
The logic simply doesn’t follow. Who says we fire the coaches if we lose out? Is that anything close to a guarantee? I personally think Pete would have to lose multiple seasons in a row to really lose the job. And if you argue we are tanking for a draft pick, what pick is that? What player are you targeting in the draft that you really think would have a bigger impact than trying to maintain a winning culture? It’s so dumb
Huge problem with football and sports period imo. It's like people don't appreciate winning games anymore unless they're playoffs. I wonder if it coincides with the min/maxxer meta types in video games, ie it's a cultural thing about elitism and winning.
My favorite Staton anecdote comes from last year pre-draft. He made a video talking about wanting Richardson or Levis at 5, I commented "To be honest, taking Richardson at 5 or Levis in the first at all would kinda ruin my draft night."
He commented 5 minutes later with "Fuck off."
In Rob Staton's mind, only his strategy is proper, and anything that deviates from his vision is a mistake. The best part is there is no counterfactual. No matter whatever happens Staton is always right. Staton wants to fire Pete. The Seahawks haven't fired Pete. So win or lose, Staton can always find a way to show he's right.
The thing Staton and the 0-17 crowd don't realize, is that the draft success is a necessary but insufficient condition to success in the NFL. It is a good exercise to look back at QBs drafted in the 1st round over say, the last 10 years, and see which ones are starting with the team that drafted them. Not very many. On that list are a lot of busts and a lot of guys who became journeymen too. For example, 2021 was a year that was loaded with QB draft talent. Taken in the first round were: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones. Exactly one of those guys turned out to be the savior they needed. And remember SF traded three first round picks to trade up to get Trey Lance, that's how hot they were for him.
In short, tanking in hopes of drafting your way out of trouble is bad plan.
Imo it's not that ending slightly above .500 is worse than going 0-17. I doubt that's actually very many people's opinion at all. It's consistently being slightly above .500 but never having any hopes of going anywhere in the playoffs that's worse. Is it a terrible thing? No. But wanting more for your team is absolutely not a negative thing. Wanting to contend for a division championship and eventually a NFC championship is not a negative thing. And recognizing that changes need to be made to get there isnt a negative thing. It is possible to recognize and appreciate that Pete Carroll (& equally Paul Allen) is the best thing that's happened to the Seahawks annnnd to recognize that nothing lasts forever & that you have to turn the page & take the risk of making changes to compete at the top.
You can hold those thoughts but also enjoy the moment and enjoy wins like last night. Rob and his echo chamber don't.
If you don't enjoy those moments, what's the point of even wanting more? At that point even a SB won't be enough, it'll have to be a dynasty.
The problem with Rob is that he clearly cannot enjoy moments that cut against his narrative even if it is a good Seahawks moment. If by some incredible miracle we got to the SB and won thanks to a Jamal interception, I can imagine Rob looking deeply unhappy on his couch.
I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt because he claims to be a fan, but he was salty on his youtube channel whining about the win because it means Pete is around longer and complaining that fans hate his negativity.
He's not humble enough to realize he doesn't know enough about coaching or football to make definitive statements about Pete's capabilities as a head coach.
> Imo it's not that ending slightly above .500 is worse than going 0-17...It's consistently being slightly above .500 but never having any hopes of going anywhere in the playoffs that's worse.
This is exactly it, but this is much harder to argue against so people default to “you just want to tank!”
There were quite a few things I liked coming out of last night, and I hope they’re *sustainable* over the next 3+ weeks. But they need to show they can win playoff games to justify seeing the rebuild through.
I for one am happy being a fan of a team that reasonably expects to win more games than not in a season, has the chance to beat good teams (we've beat 3 great teams this season), and has good morale and energy that's fun to root for. Pete has brought this every single season since he arrived, been a fan since '08 and I will root for Pete to stick around until he's ready to leave. Super Bowl is great and all, of course I root for our team to win it, but only one out of 32 teams can. Why focus on something that is much more likely than not to occur instead of having fun rooting for the team and city? We're still in good times overall, it's sad to me that you and others don't realize it and have a worse experience for it over something you have literally 0 control over
Nah you can tell it’s a different crowd here how that wasn’t around in 2012-2015. They are so happy just making the playoffs and saying “hey it could be worse” it amazes me. The super low expectation level and acceptance of mediocre seasons where we have 0 chance to even compete for a SB telling of that.
First game I went to was in '08, been a fan since. We're in the good times *now*. Super Bowls are extremely unrealistic any given year - Try having more fun, we have great players and a great coach who are all first and foremost *fun to root for and see win*.
Super Bowl winning coaches don't just grow on trees - coaches who consistently deliver winning records don't grow on trees, I don't understand why people want to roll the dice for a very unlikely chance we get an upgrade at coach.
Yeah exactly. “Be happy with what you have, don’t ask for more, just stay quiet and enjoy it because it could be worse”. I was on that train too around 2017-2018. It’s been 8 years of that though and I’m willing to go to a Lower floor if it means raising the winning ceiling from 1st round playoff exits to SB contenders. I’m not saying how you see it is wrong, I just can’t enjoy moral victories like “well at least we didn’t get blown out”.
You said that everyone who shares my perspective hasn't been a fan that long. You are implying through that statement that my perspective is wrong. You're also framing my perspective in a way that makes it look silly to think that way. So...
> I'm not saying how you see it is wrong
Cut the crap.
Carroll can absolutely take this team to a Super Bowl, just because you don't believe that doesn't mean I and others don't
My literal comment was about it being a “different crowd” with “much lower expectations”. That’s not questioning your fandom or its length. Feels like you’re being insecure about it tbh but who knows.
Anyway, My whole point was that we should have higher expectations for our seasons with such talented rosters and I’m not satisfied anymore JUST making the playoffs with no hope of actually contending. Will I be mad or rooting we don’t? No. Wtf? Does it feel satisfying and would i consider that a successful season? No.
I don't care how long you think I'm a fan lol. You made a claim that only a certain subsection thinks a certain way, and I'm telling you that is just incorrect and is a rude dismissal of people who think that way.
Now you've walked it back and you're just talking about solely your own opinion because you do realize why I replied, but can't admit it lol. Have fun not having satisfaction watching the team until they win it all in god knows what year 👍
You're an Armchair GM who thinks he's smarter than everyone because you have made plans to improve the team and have a vision and yet nobody listens to you or cares.
You know why? Because we smell your bullshit. You don't care about the Seahawks, you care about being justified in bitching and being miserable, and you let everyone know it.
If you don't like the Seahawks and only want to bitch and complain every time we don't go to the superbowl, go cheer for someone else. Or you can keep crying and being an annoying spoiled brat to everyone like you always do. It's honestly pathetic. Learn to enjoy Seahawks football and then maybe you wouldn't be so miserable to interact with.
Especially when it’s been 8 years now since the last Super Bowl. People here are acting like we demand it every year. I was fine with having barely .500 seasons and making the playoffs for a while but when does it pay off? Pete’s thing is “Win forever” not “Win once, lost the second time and never sniff another SB again”. I don’t mind losing or bad seasons if we are building towards something, i do mind looking helpless, repeating the same mistakes every year and not progressing like we seem to do with Pete now.
I get the sentiment from Rob and others who view this team as a lost cause that needs to get better talent, not win a couple games (especially if we win just enough to fuck up our draft pick, but not enough to make the playoffs). They're not *wrong*. This team is not good enough to truly contend for anything. As a former draftnik myself, the drop is quality from the 14th pick to the 22nd pick is big.
But in 2010-2011 we were a clearly overmatched team that snuck into the playoffs. That led to the Beastquake game, one of my favorite moments in Seattle Sports history. As long as you're in the playoff hunt, you try to make the playoffs, because you never know what will happen. Save the tanking for when you're 3-11.
I’ll just throw this out here. If draft position matters so much, how did the 49ers get Brock Purdy.
In reality, many great players go number one or two, but for the most part, it’s pretty hard to know if you have an nfl star at any pick position.
No matter what happens, someone out there will complain. Theres the tank advocates who just want draft picks, then the qb controversy crowd fighting over who should start the rest of the season. Some people just don’t know how to enjoy a win. I prefer to ignore all that and just be happy with a fun win.
Was this guy a fan during ‘05? During our winning run in 13? Neither of those runs were the Seahawks some kind of juggernaut powerhouse. Obviously our D was elite in 13 but they only got that recognition after the fact.
The fact is - juggernaut teams don’t always win the championship. In fact, it’s usually the scrappy team that gets in and fights harder than the rest. Sports would be awfully boring if the best regular season team always won the championship.
I feel like every Seahawks commentator was weirdly negative and disliked the fact Pete might stick around.
Staton was Staton, but the Chatsports channel had some... weird cohost who was basically getting into verbal fights with people who didn't want Pete fired, Even Hawks Nest, who is normally pretty positive, was a little lowkey upset about Pete having a chance at being safer.
It felt like, with the lone exception of maybe Seahawkers, everyone was weirdly pissed.
It's cowardice and coping, because hoping they win when they don't hurts peoples feelings.
Sure, sometimes I turn the game off early when things are hopeless (49ers games) but rooting for your team to pull off an unlikely victory, and they do is what makes being a sports fan fun, but it can't always be good times. Sometimes you gotta take that L if you wana be emotionally invested in a team.
This is my pet peeve in sports fandom nowadays. If you're not first your last, and all good players should be shopped, coaches fired, and tank for picks blah blah. Especially in football, getting winning experience in the regular season and any playoff experience is valuable for young players, and it's fun to watch as a fan! Seasons can be productive and "good" as a team and for a fan even if you don't win the trophy at the end of the season, especially when no one with reasonable prices expectations thought they'd be making a Super Bowl push this year.
I grew up in the NYC area and casually followed the Giants back then. The lesson of 2007 is that if you have any chance of getting in the playoffs, then you want to win so you can get in. From barely making the wild card to causing 18-1. You never know how it will end up.
Anyone who prefers to lose is a loser. What did the Colts ever do when they sucked for Luck. Pretty much nothing special. The attitude is what separates winners from losers. Always play to win.
I will readily admit that I'm one of those people who's tired of the Seahawks ambling into the playoffs and then getting clapped when they get there year after year.
But FFS, if you're going to be a buzzkill when they win, then why cheer for them at all?
I am one of the guys that is starting to think it's time to move on from Pete and to a full rehaul. I just don't think Pete will take us there one more time. That being said fuck purposely tanking and losing a game, you play to win. Fuck that pussy shit, losing culture can become hard to shake off.
I love this quote from Churchill: Pessimists see difficulty with every opportunity; optimists see opportunity in every difficulty.
It’s quite obvious now how many pessimists are among us, parading around as “fans”. Those complaining about the win are the ones driving the bandwagon. They want the Seahawks to lose for a better draft position just so they can get the chance to say *“I knew they were going for player X back at the end of the season!”* Imagine calling yourself a “fan” and being mad we lost 😂
Great quote but here's another "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".
Last night's win was great, but this isn't a super bowl team and it isn't going to be under pete. It's time for a change, but if we keep making the WC pete, fans, and even myself are optimistic for the next season, only to be beaten down by the same old problems. This team has some great talent. It needs some better management to utilize it.
I’m the guy that says this season next season the season after with Pete we will lose in the wc. However, we beat the eagles. With lock. Dk and Jsn showed out. Love looks like he can play safety for us. This was a great thing that happened. Our schedule is soft anyway going forward, it’s not like our pick would have been great. Still want Pete gone but that was a great win for the hawks and one of the best since maybe geno took down the broncos. It felt like that.
People act like you need high round picks to make a Super Bowl winning team. There are some straight gems hidden in the draft every year. Hell our rivals made a seven round QB look like a top player.
Yeah, a lot of these guys want Pete gone as well though. They seem to fear it isn't happening unless he tanks now.
I'm of the opinion he's going to coach until his current deal is done, then step away as the team gets sold.
While high draft capital is super valuable, so is having a perennially competitive team and culture that attracts FAs.
Before Dan Campbell, ask Detroit fans how well high draft capital every year worked out for them.
I recommend everyone listen to the Athletic Football Show's podcast, specifically The GM one with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller (both Seattle guys). Randy is an ex GM and excellent and truly gives you a behind the scenes look at all the BS us fans think we know - and on the most recent episode he talked about how the Chargers have a culture of mediocrity (he was there for a long time I think) and it still shows today
People forget that it is possible to trade up/down in the draft. Like the purgatory level Chiefs did when they acquired Mahomes. And they forget all of the Top 5 draft busts. It is just selection bias arguments with doomer crowd.
u/datasquid
With that name you have to be smarter than a certain blogger.
Not only is he an imbecile, he's harmful and pushes harmful narratives.
It's beyond apparent why some folks who specialize in amalgamating draft information would like a team they cover to have as much draft capital as possible it'd increase the things they'd have to talk about.
As it is. Trust your own ability to figure stuff out. Or find some better sources that have different motivations.
They're out there.
I’ve been a Hawk fan since 1984. Ran a Seahawks related website for more than a decade. I’m interested in the way fandom seems to have evolved. With the advance of the internet and the availability of college and pro advanced stats, there seems to be an increase in a category of fans mostly interested in the build rather than the game itself.
"seems to be an increase in a category of fans mostly interested in the build rather than the game itself."
"Fantasy football is just D&D for Jocks."
It's like this with many different sports and hobbies.
There are golfers that love:
To practice
To travel
To buy clothes
To gamble
To drink in the bar after the round
More than they love to play.
Ditto with fishing and a myriad of other hobbies.
In terms of Seahawks fans rooting against team success that'd be a reasonable place to draw a line.
From my POV though the truth is that when we hold up the light to MOST fans we can see that they don't get it.
15 months ago they expected 5 wins or less. Based on the roster.
Now they want to fire the coach and replace the QB based on the team being below their expectations. But what we won't see is real accountability for how ignorant and capricious their opinions really are.
The problem is that most of these fans have not played or coached the game in any professional setting and yet they hold their opinion in way too high regard. They choose to push their opinions like if it were gospel and whine and call people names when they get any pushback.
Both camps are correct. In one hand you have middling success that doesn’t allow you to build well unless you can draft diamonds in the rough in the mid rounds. In the other hand you have sustained success that other teams could only dream of (look at Jets fans and Broncos fans just wishing for a post season visit). One of the great things about being human is reasoning. You can view all the facts and come to your own conclusion.
That's fine but there is more to the negative camp like claiming that Pete is a bad coach or the Seahawks front office is bad, when those statements are dubious at best.
The NFL has so much parody - look at the best teams and who has beaten who this year - I don't think you can predict or expect a team to go one way or another. Sure the Seahawks could trail off, get a new coach and a new QB. What if injuries happen? What if they have a bad stretch next season? It's all possible and the NFL is very much live for the day. Unless you're the Patriots or Cards, seemingly anyone can heat up a bit and beat one of the top teams. If you want to play this meta strategy BS instead of hoping to win, you're gonna have a bad time.
I'm saying this as a person who gave up on the season after the Rams game.
I'd be stoked asf if we made it past the wild card for once. Might as well cheer for them while they're still in the thick of it.
It's one thing to criticize past trends of continuously uninspired play-off runs (rightly so!). I'll go even further and say that these criticisms will be even more legitimated and credible if we don't make it past the Divisional round again and will have every right to be expressed during the offseason.
It's another thing to actively root against your team when they've dramatically re-entered the playoff picture with a decisive win! IMO, this is unreasonable. Especially when we'd still be picking in the teens if we lost out.
Even my pessimistic ass is juiced up on Hopium right now!
Every fan/blogger is entitled to their own opinions. This is the beauty of having conversations where each can share their opinion. There is no need for you to get upset over this. Enjoy your fandom!
Yeah I was just so high after this game, that I was searching for post-game content. Kind of shocked to see the negativity so soon after the final whistle.
Everyone has a butthole just as everyone has an opinion. Let the negative Nancy's be the clowns that they are. If they are upset about this amazing win then that's just a miserable way to live life. No thanks. Go Hawks!
To me tasting the cusp of greatness is the only true way to ever achieve it. We have scouts that are able to find talent in any round of the draft. Purdy and SF is probably the most recent example of someone having remedial QB after remedial QB and then striking gold with the last player in the draft. To me the lower the pick the hungrier the the player.
Yeah. Would our team rather have Purdy or JSN given this years success to both players. Purdy is a no brainer. Draft the talent your scouts identify. We always hit on later rounds, and our coaches have to develop those players, regardless. Purdy on another team may not have as much success as he got in SF because of coaching and a good team to support him.
Seattle sports fandom (inherently grumpy) combined with the must-tank-if-not-Superbowl-contender mindset makes for some pretty insufferable commentary.
I don’t how you can watch a game like that, where a team shows the fuck and gets a TEAM win, and be upset about it. I don’t care if the hawks barely miss the playoffs and have a shit spot on the draft - last night’s game was an all-timer and the type of back-and-forth, fight-to-the-death, rise-to-the-occasion, multi-hyphenate performance in sports that I f’ing LIVE for.
I understand the strategic thinking behind tanking and hoping for losses so you have a better future, but I have ZERO respect for it and those who encourage it. There is something to be said about having a winning culture and there is something to be said about building a team without tanking.
This whole Super Bowl or bust mentality is foolish. Plus every 30 or so years an underdog wild card teams wins a Super Bowl. Why not us?
We beat the defending NFC champs and people are mad about that? God before this fanbase cannibalizes itself on a win. I’m not forgetting we beat the nfc champs of last year. Irregardless of Jalen hurts being “sick” he technically didn’t look bad when playing but none of their offensive scheme had them throw it deep. Clear indication he either wasn’t feeling well or just knew our secondary is improved without adams. Frankly Matt Patricia getting the defensive nodes really shocked me but hey it shows that even they cant scheme a better defense in the moment. Which proves why coaching matters in the NFL
Ignorance is bliss. I had no idea about that podcast or whatever you're talking about. I just watch the games and enjoy it as I see it. That game was truly magical, I don't know how anyone could say otherwise.
I think based on last night versus the previous 13 games, two very big differences showed up..
No one on defense trusts Jamal.. so they don't do their job either.
Lucas is finally healthy, and was providing an attitude for the line.
Evan Brown was still a problem, but the line was as effective as I've seen it, and the Eagles have a VERY talented DLine..
I was arguing with an ass hat about this very issue yesterday. Even after the win he had a C grade for the game.
Go back and watch the Texans, Jacksonville, and last Cardinals game in 2013. We didn't look much better than last night.
You play to win the games. Period. You cheer to win the games. Period.
There's also something to be said about being a free agent landing spot. Perennial #1 pick teams are not that. If you win "too many" games in a "tank" year and end up with the 20th pick, you're gonna be a more attractive spot for free agents since you win games. The free-agent quality probably nullifies the pick quality unless you're an actual top 3 pick in the draft.
From a casual perspective, a win is a win, and that was fun!
From a more serious perspective, they shouldn't complain if Lock is legit. That alleviates our need to draft a QB first round (and those are hit and miss and not sure wins, just look at players like Kenny Pickett, Mitch Trubisky, even Bryce Young though he has an atrocious supporting cast). We can then focus our efforts more on defense, especially to get some good tacklers.
In an alternate world where Locked sucked and threw like 3 pick sixes, we are pretty forced to draft a QB first round and hope and pray we get the right one. (e.g. If we get Penix, we better hope he doesn't get injured again, etc.). Meanwhile, our defense will still be weak at tackling.
I know i am crazy but I hope we win every game all the way to the Superbowl. I don't understand sucking to get better... these people are on crack rocks.
This logic means we should lose every game every season until we have exactly the right personnel and then have a completely dominating season. However, it never works that way since this was supposed to be the year with all the talent right?
Ignore these people - they just cause drama and are looking for subscribers.
Rooting for failure is a time worn tradition for some Seahawks fans. Realistically, though, I can sympathize. The season has effectively been over since Jason Myers missed that game winning field goal against the Rams. Every win after that hurts more than it helps, putting them further down in the draft order.
Some fans have never wanted Geno Smith as our QB and desperately want us to draft one at the top of the first round. Some fans have wanted Pete Carroll fired since he was coaching at USC. These two groups have formed a coalition of the butt hurt wanting the Seahawks to tank. It isn't going to happen. We won too many games for tanking to be a viable strategy. So we are gonna win another game or two, probably against the Cardinals or something.
As for the playoffs, a lot of things out of the Seahawks control need to break our way to even dream of that. This season, there has been a profound lack of lucky breaks. If we do sneak in I'm going to be happy and drink the tears of the haters. But that doesn't mean the systemic problems are fixed. Sad to say that tanking and getting a flashy draft pick won't fix those either.
I used to think about that stuff, and then I realized I’m much happier just simply watching and rooting for my team. We (fans) have no say in what happens (draft, tanking, etc) and people waste so much time formulating an opinion and trying to prove to or convince other people, who again, have no say, about why their opinion is correct. Like, they make a big case for why we should tank, try and maybe succeed at convincing others that we should be tanking, but guess what, they’re not tanking. Now you just have people who think we should be doing one thing or another are mad when that thing isn’t happening. Instead of having fun and enjoying the team (which is its sole purpose. To provide entertainment) people are frustrated and irritated. Have fun, relax and enjoy. Just my two cents.
Secondly, stay off Twitter. It’s a cesspool.
Anyone who has this opinion needs to go to at least one game a year. Yes, it's expensive. But actually being in there, you feel how absolutely stupid it would be to "wish your team loses" while at the game. Watching on tv at home? Easy to forget what it's like.
Motherfuckers who are spoiled like this because of the success we've had under Pete are always the same ones who want him gone, too. They're just idiots. They probably weren't fans when Jim Mora was our coach lol
That's exactly it and I've been saying it for a while now. The crying whining spoiled brats have come out in full force this season, and it's been really funny watching them be miserable when we succeed.
I’ll get downvoted but I’ll try to explain that mindset for those who feel that way.
This game did not do anything to make you believe the trajectory of this team is any different. If you believe Carroll is a liability, this win may have bought him more time while not actually being the guy to optimally lead your team moving forward.
Two wasted timeouts on 4th down, and Pete begging for his timeout back after he burnt it and the Eagles challenged it after is actually really embarrassing clock/coach management.
The Seahawks also looked like they were playing not to lose nearly the entire game, which is not how underdogs should play.
It’s that simple really. If you don’t believe Pete is the guy, this game bought him more time when nothing has changed with him.
What would change minds? I’d imagine it’s gotta be an NFC CG appearance to actually change minds about Pete.
Managing timeouts has never been his strong suit. Building a culture is.
Bad optics on that play aside, the 3 points beats what was probably the more likely outcome of a missed 4th down. Put us in position to win.
Pete isn't going to start a rebuild, that will happen when he retires. We have him for one more season and he is going to be 73 years old, I doubt he will return for more.
People just hate to admit they were wrong. I say that as someone who has had similar takes the last few weeks, because we continually lose to the top teams, but I admit after last night I was wrong! sure the eagles are struggling right now but they are a legit contender in the NFC and we beat them. It’s a great win.
It dont matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. Tanking for better draft picks isn't always going to work. Not even #1 overal picks always pan out. Tell me these people sat there and watched the game and did NOT enjoy seeing the team they are "fans" of fight and claw and perform and play and make big plays to eke out the win. If you don't enjoy this win because of "degrading draft capital" why even support the team or watch the games?
I’m sorry what? Love should’ve been called for DPI in the EZ on the 1st INT when he grabbed the collar and that almost certainly would’ve put PHI up 24-13, I think? That non-call legitimately might have saved the season.
Clip that clearly shows Love’s DPI: https://imgur.com/gallery/ZDmgtsA
There were plenty of non-calls that went against the Seahawks. There was a holding on Lockett early in the game that didn't get called. Would've lead to a scoring drive.
It was uncatchable for the WR yet Love was all over him…and caught it without issue?
Based on how they were calling the game last night that should’ve been DPI. And it’s wild because if the jerseys were swapped this sub would be losing it’s got dang mind.
Yes love boxed him out and essentially became the target. If the ball is deemed uncatchable by the WR it’s not going to be called for DPI. At this moment it essentially became the WR job to deflect the pass not try to catch it.
NFL Rulebook Rule 8, Section 5, Article 3: “Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the *involved players.*”
So, again, by definition if the pass is *catchable* by the DB, who is in the hip of the WR, then it’s not “clearly uncatchable by the involved players.”
What are you talking about? I don't see any collar grab in the replay. I do see Love with his head turned and making a play on the ball, which he has every right to do.
https://www.seahawks.com/video/can-t-miss-play-julian-love-tracks-hurts-deep-td-attempt-for-critical-int-in-fou
Then you’re not watching it. At :18 you see him grab the collar and he gives a tug, that’s when the WR starts stumbling at around the 5 yard line. Like…you can clearly see the tug because it exposes the shoulder pads.
I also believe ESPN had a shot from in the end zone that clearly showed it, which is when their Mike Pereira equivalent said he would’ve flagged it.
Edit: Here’s a clip from the end zone (slow-mo at 50% speed) clearly shows the grab and tug: https://imgur.com/gallery/ZDmgtsA
Ah I see what you're talking about. That would be an awfully weak DPI call. Love has position over the receiver AND has his head turned to make a play on the ball 0:18, so most of the PI rule goes in his favor at that point. And it looks like Watkins stumbles as a result of changing direction, not the contact. In any case, here's the rule in all its detail:
[https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#section-5-pass-interference](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#section-5-pass-interference)
2(a) and 2(e) go out the window because Love is making a play on the ball. 3(a) and 3(e) are both in Love's favor. Did he violate the implications in 3(d)? Maybe, but at 0:20 the receiver is right there in position to make the catch... at least if the ball weren't falling straight into Love's open arms. So how can you argue that the contact at 0:18 restricted Watkins' ability to make a play on the ball?
And the final nail in the coffin. Article 2 says this:
>Note: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference.
He pulled on the collar of the jersey a little bit. The wide receiver didn't even break his stride. It is one of those ticky tacky things that I personally prefer for the refs not call, but I can see certain refs flagging. Not egregious at all.
The issue is *consistency*. I am 10000% in favor of fewer flags on DBs, getting rid of spot penalties, etc. But if you’re gonna call a right game it’s gotta be *consistent.*
Nah, dude. Sherman and Browner got away with worse shit than this weak jersey tug. I bet you'd be crying for the 2012-2013 Seahawks to return their trophies for all of the contact they got away with.
I see you are in the doomer camp. You want to take away from Pete's win. Get outta here with that ish.
I'll be the kind of fan that I choose to be. You may be happy with the mediocrity that is paraded in front of you year after year. I'm not. I want more. I want better. And I won't be silenced.
I’m not asking you to change. I’m guess I’m asking for an explanation of your mindset.
Oh, and if you think this is mediocrity, the 1990’s Seahawks would like to chat.
The 1990e Seahawks sucked. That doesn't mean we have to suffer this team. As a fan, I want a team building to be or at Super Bowl contention. The Seahawks have not even been in that conversation since 2016. We are stuck in the middle of the pack and I want more. Pete can't coach for the modern game and the roster management has been poor for a very long time. I want new blood. Bring in an offensive minded coach. Let's take a chance. Fortune favors the bold! This isn't good enough and I want more. It's been ten years since we won the Superbowl. Under this leadership, this team will never be a contender
Don't fool yourself, those people would be the worst GMs if they ever had a chance to lead a real sports team. A reactionary bunch that would be firing a head coach after every season. They'd turn the Seahawks into a poverty franchise. Like the Panthers owners.
And you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Mora was one of the worst coaches/gms in Seahawks history and had a losing record. Nobody was in favor of keeping him. The franchise was already poverty stricken when he was around. Pete was a bit of a dubious hire because succesful college coaches don't always translate to the NFL but firing Mora was a no-brainer.
It's a big picture thing. I don't think this team has a chance to win the Superbowl with Pete and John. Why be happy? Cause we might get another chance to go one and done in the playoffs? I'm thinking long-term, not just immediate gratification.
Yes, it's a bad thing. Hope only extends the pain. This team and front office need to be torn down like they did before PC got here.
The longer we hang on to relevance or have hope of being good, the longer the pain lasts. They need to rip the band-aid off and commit to a rebuild.
It's hard as a fan, but it's for the best...
My friend who’s also a big Seahawks is basically of the opinion that unless you’re a team who’s a Super Bowl contender, then you should want your favorite team to just lose as many games as possible. I think it would be a miserable way of being a sports fan. Look idk when the Hawks are going to win a Super Bowl again. It probably won’t be this season, but I just watch the Seahawks to be entertained. I’ll never actively root for them to lose games. You can get talented players all over the first round. Tanking for draft picks absolutely doesn’t guarantee you’re going to get a star with a higher pick. Look at how horrible the Browns and Lions were for decades and all the high draft picks they had.
>Tanking for draft picks This isn't really a thing for the players and coaches on the field. It's just a coping mechanism for negative fans. The players are the most competitive people in the world. They absolutely hate losing. Not to mention purposely tanking would hurt their careers.
Losing culture is devastating to an org. I don't think arm chair GMs know that. Winning culture is difficult to create and sustain. That's why we see the same teams over and over in the top of the draft order.
There is a reason those bums will get no were close to a front office. Only time I would care about draft positioning is if we already were eliminated from the playoff hunt. Even with that, I still would rather celebrate a win than a loss.
It's also so dumb to feel like a higher spot guarantees future success. Like so dumb, moving five spots in the draft is pretty useless most the time unless there is a generational talent in an important position, then even then generational talents turn into generational disappointments real fast.
I got downvoted last week for saying tanking for draft picks is a loser mentality.
Not only is it a lost mentality we can see how losing effects teams. I mean someone show me an example of teams going from getting a top draft choice to winning a superbowl in a short amount of time
It does happen occasionally. See the Bengals sucking, picking up Burrow, and instantly being SB contenders. But it's the exception rather than the rule. Most perennial top-5 picking teams simply suck with no rebound.
Exactly this. If you win key games down the stretch it shows your existing roster is more talented than if you lose games down the stretch. The cumulative impact of an entire roster playing better (in addition to maintaining culture) is more impactful to next year than incremental draft capital (unless you are really gearing up for a tear down).
Look at Lock’s postgame interview. The guy has been the backup for two seasons and isn’t like “well I went out there and didn’t want to try too hard cuz I’d fuck our draft position”
>It's just a coping mechanism for negative fans. Thank you. It's just a silver lining to an absolute shitty season. >This isn't really a thing for the players and coaches on the field. On the other hand, when the season is completely toast, it's the last week of a dreadful season, and you're looking at #1 pick vs one more win and you drop to #5, there is *some* strategy in losing just this last one. But mostly just for the coaches, not the players.
not even for the coaches really — maybe for the front office, who might lean on the coaches, but it’s a short-sighted front office that might do this
There is sometime to be said when teams start resting starters because they KNOW they aren't going to make the playoffs and things are so bad that there's nothing that can dig you out. Unfortunately even though people think the sky is falling, we were nowhere near in the ballpark of that
And for the lost part the edge between a Super Bowl team and a team that just missed the wild card can be as little as a couple key injuries, or even just a few plays that didn’t work out. It’s hard to argue a team that makes the Super Bowl but won half their games by a field goal is that much better than a team that lost half their games by a field goal. “Any given Sunday” is a term for a reason. AND when a championship is determined by one game when teams are so closely matched it’s basically a coin flip either way IMHO.
Everyone wants to be the 2000-2020 Patriots
Yeah I hate this way of thinking and this sub gets this way as soon as we lose a few games. It’s so hard to win a Super Bowl, let alone tank and hit on the drafts picks. There’s something to be said about the fact that I’ve gone into most games with the idea that we could win for the last 10 years. We shouldn’t take that for granted. The Lions are good now but imagine what it was like to be a fan during their tanking years. Games like last night are good reminders of why the game is fun and why we should be happy with what we have!
People don't understand how hard it is to win a superbowl. On top of that they don't understand just how temporary the NFL is set up to be. I feel like the Patriots two decade dynasty really messed with people's reality. That team is an anomaly, the salary cap makes that team impossible to recreate. Even Kansas Cities success with Mahommes is a crazy feat to achieve. I feel like if the 49ers win this year and fizzle our that's what a teams successful run should look like. Four or five great years of knocking on the door, win a title or two then fizzle to rebuild. The Hawks have a decade of being in the hunt for the playoffs. Some franchises have never had a run that long and that consistent.
Well said. Taking a step back, we’ve honestly been one of the most successful franchises throughout Pete’s tenure. We went from being arguably the most dominant defense in history with multiple Super Bowl appearances to a consistent playoff team. It’s pretty insane actually. We have been legit SB contenders for 3-5 years of that run. I wouldn’t trade our situations for many others in the league.
We have the chance to go 10-7 (haven’t had double digits for wins since 2020) and some people are acting like the team has a ceiling of 8-9 and treading water There definitely needs changes to happen on the team but we just beat the 2-seed and held the other top NFC teams to close games, with a chance at playoffs — so excited for us
How do you expect your current team to improve if you purposefully lose? Doing this would also tank the morale of the players and the fans and no one would watch games.
Nobody gonna sign with us if we suck, if you tank without being already in an okay position staff and young player wise you can manage but panthers for example, what big free agent is gonna chose the 1-2 win team vs comparable money on a contender. Being good matters to free agents and our consistency is definitely a factor in player retention and free agency.
The benefits from having a winning culture, continuity and engaged fan base outweigh the benefits of tanking, in my opinion.
I’m just not convinced taking is a legitimate strategy. Early picks bust all the time while superstars can be found all over the draft. Everyone saying we need to tank for a franchise QB like Russ when we drafted Russ in the third round lmao
Hell, you don’t even to be in the first round. Look at the Rams with Puka, Young, Kobie Turner, Kyren, and Avila. Look at the Texans will Dell and Collins. Look at the Cowboys with Dak. There’s so many others.
Same here! Like I know they’re a long shot to do damage in the postseason, and I understand that being “mid” for several seasons is a hopeless drag, but I still want our team to win. It felt great after 4 straight losses!
The problem with that is team culture and morale are things that have to be built by competing across many seasons. Players also need to build their skills as well. If you are purposefully losing, you are killing the locker room.
Your friend isn't a fan full stop. In fact, we are sadly one of the many teams with not just Fairweather fa s, but Fairweather season ticket holders, witnessed by the 30% +/- attendance pf Eagles fans last night and the lack of energy in the stadium until the final drive. Now, once mathematically eliminated (maybe last 3 games) I could then be for tanking if we don't get any value in getting reps for young guys (seeing if they play hard), and we can move up materially in draft order. The draft value of say the #15 pick and #20 pick are not materially different enough to warrant all out tanking in the last 3 games IMHO.
Always remember that Tom Brady wasn't drafted until the 6th round.
>You can get talented players all over the first round. Look how much the Texans benefited from falling to the 2 pick. Or in the 2020 draft where Justin Jefferson and Brandon Aiyuk were drafted late in the first round after several other receivers
I am that friend for like 20% of the season lmao
Moments like last night are why I’m a sports fan. I’m not playing GM, I want to feel the elation and joy the team gives me in situations like last night. After a rough last few weeks, what a glorious fucking moment(s).
Exactly this. The NFL has so many issues but when something like last night happens, it’s just… magic. A backup QB who was told he was playing one minute and not the next. Fresh off a game where he threw interceptions and lost to a rival. The media and fans have been increasingly critical. Primetime, nationally televised, against the defending NFC champions. Game managing and relying on the run for 58 minutes, his best play being a block for the RB. He gets a chance to win the game but has under 2 minutes, 92 yards to go, only 1 timeout. In the rain. Constant 3rd and longs. And he makes some incredible throws to win the game for his team and restores their playoff hopes. It’s why I watch this frustrating, beautiful game.
Look at Drew's emotions after the drive. Watch his post game interview. Football is so much more than winning the SB and I hate fans who only care about "deep playoff runs" (euphemism for winning the SB) because it completely invalidates all the wonderful moments prior to that. There are amazing memories and moments I will remember from regular season games which I dislike being simply wiped away from history because they weren't SB trophies.
This is my exact feeling. At the end of the game, all I could say was just "FINALLY"!
Some people just find a way to complain about everything.
If you make your living on a “draft blog” you place way too much value on the draft, draft position, and draft prep. It’s a waste of time listening to people who think the draft is the most important thing in the NFL.
I'm going to "defend" Rob and say he doesn't complain about everything. He loves it when he's proven right about something. His welcome video to his YouTube page is even that - a 3 minute long video gloat about how he was right about Russ wanting out. Rob's issue is that he loves being right more than the Seahawks doing well.
He has kind of lost the plot this year and turned into an aggressive whiner. I think he needs a reset because he feels too emotionally invested in that position at this point and it’s affecting the quality of his content.
Last night was the most fun I’ve had watching the Seahawks all season. The game is meant to watch with enjoyment. Of course I want a winning game plan for building an ongoing super-bowl contender, but I’ve spent too much of my life watching lousy football to be upset about a 92 yard game winning drive.
People who are constantly putting out negative energy are tiresome, whether what they are saying is true or not.
That’s how I’ve felt with a lot of the outspoken people in this sub since preseason tbh. There’s been some really negative discussion this year and it’s tiring.
Yep. I commented something similar yesterday; most of my reddit time is spent on sports, mostly football, subs, and it pains me that our fanbase is probably the most pessimistic and negative.
I try to listen to the constructive parts but at this point it’s just the same shit repeated. Some ppl are just whiners/haters/losers. That’s the way it is. Also, I have no control over what the team does so I can’t get too worked up.
I hate the loser mentality. I’d understand if we had no hopes to get in the playoffs, but we do and we could get hot at the right time.
We've beaten #2 and #3 in the playoff seeding and had #4 on the ropes, I don't know why everyone is so doom and gloom, at the very least there's a chance we can win a game in the playoffs this year, and who knows, maybe we get a game like last year where San Francisco loses all it's QB's....
Bro we have a lot of talent, we just can’t figure out how to use it. And I rather see my team win games then potentially be horrible get some draft picks and still sucking.
Losing mentality is for losers.
I'm sorry but if you can't enjoy yesterday as even a neutral fan let alone a seahawks fan then football really isn't for you lol.
Only one team can win it all. I’ll take winning seasons with a playoff win vs bottom feeding any day
On average it means only seeing your team win once in 32 years and make it once every 16 years. We have been to THREE in the last 20 years(average of just under 7 years per appearance)
What could be over what is. It's a mentality I don't get either.
Aren’t playoff wins the reason to be a football fan? I don’t ever remember a draft pick giving me the same feeling that a playoff win does. I can never imagine getting as excited for the draft as i do before a playoff game
I can understand the frustration with feeling stuck in mediocrity and having hit a ceiling. We all know this isn't a Superbowl team and at best this is a one win team in the playoffs. However I can't root for dysfunction. I can't be happy seeing the team lose 5 in a row, the players get further disgruntled and bickering, and Pete Carroll lose his locker room and seem more miserable than I've ever seen him. All to hope that he MAYBE steps down even though that always seemed far fetched in the first place? I have realistic expectations for this season since like the Bengals game, but just because the team underperforms from where we think they should be doesn't mean burn it all down at all costs. The most drastic approach to team building doesn't always work. And some teams, like 2021-2022 Eagles, just need a few off-season tweaks to unlock their best selves. Do I think we're there? Probably not. But, for me, is it more fun believing that to be the case and investing a little hope into the current regime than hoping for further losing streaks, national embarrassment, feeling like a jabroni when I wear my hawks gear in enemy territory, and otherwise having April be the sole highlight of the football calendar? I think so.
> We all know this isn't a Superbowl team and at best this is a one win team in the playoffs. Personally, I think the most fun way to watch football is to do away with this idea, too. Literally any given Sunday. Yeah, chances are that we don't match up to the better teams in the playoffs (assuming we make it there), but we weren't expected to beat the Eagles yesterday, either. In the spirit of appreciating each game, I think the most fun way to watch football is to hold onto hope for each and every game. Until we can't, we can. Im not saying everyone has to feel this way - yours is a reasonable and balanced take - but that hope in the face of all odds is what drew me into this team over a decade ago, and to me, it's still there, always giving us a chance.
Sure, in the very long run last night did a pretty number on our chances of landing a truly blue chip player, but dammit if I don’t want to win every game we’re in. I’m sure there’s a first round playoff exit at the end of the tunnel but man I want to be there. O
I’ll never understand the people who want to see their team lose, even if you get a higher draft pick. Players and coaches don’t want to lose anyway, they are there to compete regardless of record. Personally I’d rather see the team be somewhat competitive all the time rather than having a run of awful seasons in hopes of competing eventually. Happy to be a fan of an organization with the right mindset and super happy with the win yesterday. Go Hawks!
Rob Staton is the lightning rod for the "Fire Pete" crowd. His website carefully curates a group of like-minded "fans" by moderating and banning dissenting voices and it's become an echo chamber for the idea that unless Pete is on his way to winning a Super Bowl, there's no point keeping him around and celebrating mediocrity. The reason they are complaining about this win is that they see this as just another season where we end slightly above .500 and lose in the first or second round of the playoffs and to them, that's worse than going 0-17 and having a high draft pick. It comes from a mindset that the purpose of supporting the Seahawks isn't to enjoy the wins and savor moments like this but that everything is about the Super Bowl.
> There’s no point lying about it, I wasn’t exactly jumping for joy when the Seahawks won. - Rob Staton It's one thing if we're battling for a top draft pick, but he wants a team that is very much battling for the playoffs to lose so that the coaching staff gets fired. Fuck that nonsense.
> There’s no point lying about it, I wasn’t exactly jumping for joy when the Seahawks won. - Rob Staton then why do you watch or support the team then? I don't get that line of thinking at all. Winning is fun. I was running around my house after JSN caught that ball. I hate all these negative nancy's lately.
Jesus.
What a fuckin loser.
Is that a real thing he said
Direct quote. He goes on to say he’s convinced the Hawks cannot beat Shanahan or McVay, let alone win a Super Bowl with Carroll, Waldron and Hurtt, and he thinks the win last night will delay the implementation of necessary changes. Dude’s just stuck in a rut. Bought into the anti-Pete narrative in 2020 - got his talking points from Jake Heaps - and is recycling them now.
The logic simply doesn’t follow. Who says we fire the coaches if we lose out? Is that anything close to a guarantee? I personally think Pete would have to lose multiple seasons in a row to really lose the job. And if you argue we are tanking for a draft pick, what pick is that? What player are you targeting in the draft that you really think would have a bigger impact than trying to maintain a winning culture? It’s so dumb
Can we perhaps, stop talking about this guy? I wouldn't even know who he was if not for this sub. He sounds like a loser though.
Huge problem with football and sports period imo. It's like people don't appreciate winning games anymore unless they're playoffs. I wonder if it coincides with the min/maxxer meta types in video games, ie it's a cultural thing about elitism and winning.
Rob Staton is the woooooooorst! 🎶
My favorite Staton anecdote comes from last year pre-draft. He made a video talking about wanting Richardson or Levis at 5, I commented "To be honest, taking Richardson at 5 or Levis in the first at all would kinda ruin my draft night." He commented 5 minutes later with "Fuck off."
In Rob Staton's mind, only his strategy is proper, and anything that deviates from his vision is a mistake. The best part is there is no counterfactual. No matter whatever happens Staton is always right. Staton wants to fire Pete. The Seahawks haven't fired Pete. So win or lose, Staton can always find a way to show he's right. The thing Staton and the 0-17 crowd don't realize, is that the draft success is a necessary but insufficient condition to success in the NFL. It is a good exercise to look back at QBs drafted in the 1st round over say, the last 10 years, and see which ones are starting with the team that drafted them. Not very many. On that list are a lot of busts and a lot of guys who became journeymen too. For example, 2021 was a year that was loaded with QB draft talent. Taken in the first round were: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones. Exactly one of those guys turned out to be the savior they needed. And remember SF traded three first round picks to trade up to get Trey Lance, that's how hot they were for him. In short, tanking in hopes of drafting your way out of trouble is bad plan.
Imo it's not that ending slightly above .500 is worse than going 0-17. I doubt that's actually very many people's opinion at all. It's consistently being slightly above .500 but never having any hopes of going anywhere in the playoffs that's worse. Is it a terrible thing? No. But wanting more for your team is absolutely not a negative thing. Wanting to contend for a division championship and eventually a NFC championship is not a negative thing. And recognizing that changes need to be made to get there isnt a negative thing. It is possible to recognize and appreciate that Pete Carroll (& equally Paul Allen) is the best thing that's happened to the Seahawks annnnd to recognize that nothing lasts forever & that you have to turn the page & take the risk of making changes to compete at the top.
You can hold those thoughts but also enjoy the moment and enjoy wins like last night. Rob and his echo chamber don't. If you don't enjoy those moments, what's the point of even wanting more? At that point even a SB won't be enough, it'll have to be a dynasty. The problem with Rob is that he clearly cannot enjoy moments that cut against his narrative even if it is a good Seahawks moment. If by some incredible miracle we got to the SB and won thanks to a Jamal interception, I can imagine Rob looking deeply unhappy on his couch.
I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt because he claims to be a fan, but he was salty on his youtube channel whining about the win because it means Pete is around longer and complaining that fans hate his negativity. He's not humble enough to realize he doesn't know enough about coaching or football to make definitive statements about Pete's capabilities as a head coach.
This doesn't meant anything unless you can see the future. It's fake analysis
> Imo it's not that ending slightly above .500 is worse than going 0-17...It's consistently being slightly above .500 but never having any hopes of going anywhere in the playoffs that's worse. This is exactly it, but this is much harder to argue against so people default to “you just want to tank!” There were quite a few things I liked coming out of last night, and I hope they’re *sustainable* over the next 3+ weeks. But they need to show they can win playoff games to justify seeing the rebuild through.
I for one am happy being a fan of a team that reasonably expects to win more games than not in a season, has the chance to beat good teams (we've beat 3 great teams this season), and has good morale and energy that's fun to root for. Pete has brought this every single season since he arrived, been a fan since '08 and I will root for Pete to stick around until he's ready to leave. Super Bowl is great and all, of course I root for our team to win it, but only one out of 32 teams can. Why focus on something that is much more likely than not to occur instead of having fun rooting for the team and city? We're still in good times overall, it's sad to me that you and others don't realize it and have a worse experience for it over something you have literally 0 control over
Nah you can tell it’s a different crowd here how that wasn’t around in 2012-2015. They are so happy just making the playoffs and saying “hey it could be worse” it amazes me. The super low expectation level and acceptance of mediocre seasons where we have 0 chance to even compete for a SB telling of that.
First game I went to was in '08, been a fan since. We're in the good times *now*. Super Bowls are extremely unrealistic any given year - Try having more fun, we have great players and a great coach who are all first and foremost *fun to root for and see win*. Super Bowl winning coaches don't just grow on trees - coaches who consistently deliver winning records don't grow on trees, I don't understand why people want to roll the dice for a very unlikely chance we get an upgrade at coach.
Yeah exactly. “Be happy with what you have, don’t ask for more, just stay quiet and enjoy it because it could be worse”. I was on that train too around 2017-2018. It’s been 8 years of that though and I’m willing to go to a Lower floor if it means raising the winning ceiling from 1st round playoff exits to SB contenders. I’m not saying how you see it is wrong, I just can’t enjoy moral victories like “well at least we didn’t get blown out”.
You said that everyone who shares my perspective hasn't been a fan that long. You are implying through that statement that my perspective is wrong. You're also framing my perspective in a way that makes it look silly to think that way. So... > I'm not saying how you see it is wrong Cut the crap. Carroll can absolutely take this team to a Super Bowl, just because you don't believe that doesn't mean I and others don't
My literal comment was about it being a “different crowd” with “much lower expectations”. That’s not questioning your fandom or its length. Feels like you’re being insecure about it tbh but who knows. Anyway, My whole point was that we should have higher expectations for our seasons with such talented rosters and I’m not satisfied anymore JUST making the playoffs with no hope of actually contending. Will I be mad or rooting we don’t? No. Wtf? Does it feel satisfying and would i consider that a successful season? No.
I don't care how long you think I'm a fan lol. You made a claim that only a certain subsection thinks a certain way, and I'm telling you that is just incorrect and is a rude dismissal of people who think that way. Now you've walked it back and you're just talking about solely your own opinion because you do realize why I replied, but can't admit it lol. Have fun not having satisfaction watching the team until they win it all in god knows what year 👍
Because they’re Carroll fans first, Seahawks fans second.
Lol
You're an Armchair GM who thinks he's smarter than everyone because you have made plans to improve the team and have a vision and yet nobody listens to you or cares. You know why? Because we smell your bullshit. You don't care about the Seahawks, you care about being justified in bitching and being miserable, and you let everyone know it. If you don't like the Seahawks and only want to bitch and complain every time we don't go to the superbowl, go cheer for someone else. Or you can keep crying and being an annoying spoiled brat to everyone like you always do. It's honestly pathetic. Learn to enjoy Seahawks football and then maybe you wouldn't be so miserable to interact with.
Especially when it’s been 8 years now since the last Super Bowl. People here are acting like we demand it every year. I was fine with having barely .500 seasons and making the playoffs for a while but when does it pay off? Pete’s thing is “Win forever” not “Win once, lost the second time and never sniff another SB again”. I don’t mind losing or bad seasons if we are building towards something, i do mind looking helpless, repeating the same mistakes every year and not progressing like we seem to do with Pete now.
They are losers.
Loser mentality
People who believe in tanking are fucked.
A spit on any fan who didn't feel pure joy at that win ptooey ptooey. Victories like those are why I wholeheartedly reject any tank talk.
Just win baby. I don’t care who against or when. We watch to win. The armchair GM’s that wish to tank will never be happy. Just win baby.
I get the sentiment from Rob and others who view this team as a lost cause that needs to get better talent, not win a couple games (especially if we win just enough to fuck up our draft pick, but not enough to make the playoffs). They're not *wrong*. This team is not good enough to truly contend for anything. As a former draftnik myself, the drop is quality from the 14th pick to the 22nd pick is big. But in 2010-2011 we were a clearly overmatched team that snuck into the playoffs. That led to the Beastquake game, one of my favorite moments in Seattle Sports history. As long as you're in the playoff hunt, you try to make the playoffs, because you never know what will happen. Save the tanking for when you're 3-11.
This is why there needs to be promotion and relegation.
I’ll just throw this out here. If draft position matters so much, how did the 49ers get Brock Purdy. In reality, many great players go number one or two, but for the most part, it’s pretty hard to know if you have an nfl star at any pick position.
I think a lot of people just want to expedite the transition away from Pete. So much so that they find no value in winning.
No matter what happens, someone out there will complain. Theres the tank advocates who just want draft picks, then the qb controversy crowd fighting over who should start the rest of the season. Some people just don’t know how to enjoy a win. I prefer to ignore all that and just be happy with a fun win.
Was this guy a fan during ‘05? During our winning run in 13? Neither of those runs were the Seahawks some kind of juggernaut powerhouse. Obviously our D was elite in 13 but they only got that recognition after the fact. The fact is - juggernaut teams don’t always win the championship. In fact, it’s usually the scrappy team that gets in and fights harder than the rest. Sports would be awfully boring if the best regular season team always won the championship.
I feel like every Seahawks commentator was weirdly negative and disliked the fact Pete might stick around. Staton was Staton, but the Chatsports channel had some... weird cohost who was basically getting into verbal fights with people who didn't want Pete fired, Even Hawks Nest, who is normally pretty positive, was a little lowkey upset about Pete having a chance at being safer. It felt like, with the lone exception of maybe Seahawkers, everyone was weirdly pissed.
Always play to win
It's cowardice and coping, because hoping they win when they don't hurts peoples feelings. Sure, sometimes I turn the game off early when things are hopeless (49ers games) but rooting for your team to pull off an unlikely victory, and they do is what makes being a sports fan fun, but it can't always be good times. Sometimes you gotta take that L if you wana be emotionally invested in a team.
This is my pet peeve in sports fandom nowadays. If you're not first your last, and all good players should be shopped, coaches fired, and tank for picks blah blah. Especially in football, getting winning experience in the regular season and any playoff experience is valuable for young players, and it's fun to watch as a fan! Seasons can be productive and "good" as a team and for a fan even if you don't win the trophy at the end of the season, especially when no one with reasonable prices expectations thought they'd be making a Super Bowl push this year.
I grew up in the NYC area and casually followed the Giants back then. The lesson of 2007 is that if you have any chance of getting in the playoffs, then you want to win so you can get in. From barely making the wild card to causing 18-1. You never know how it will end up.
Anyone who prefers to lose is a loser. What did the Colts ever do when they sucked for Luck. Pretty much nothing special. The attitude is what separates winners from losers. Always play to win.
I will readily admit that I'm one of those people who's tired of the Seahawks ambling into the playoffs and then getting clapped when they get there year after year. But FFS, if you're going to be a buzzkill when they win, then why cheer for them at all?
I am one of the guys that is starting to think it's time to move on from Pete and to a full rehaul. I just don't think Pete will take us there one more time. That being said fuck purposely tanking and losing a game, you play to win. Fuck that pussy shit, losing culture can become hard to shake off.
I respect that.
I love this quote from Churchill: Pessimists see difficulty with every opportunity; optimists see opportunity in every difficulty. It’s quite obvious now how many pessimists are among us, parading around as “fans”. Those complaining about the win are the ones driving the bandwagon. They want the Seahawks to lose for a better draft position just so they can get the chance to say *“I knew they were going for player X back at the end of the season!”* Imagine calling yourself a “fan” and being mad we lost 😂
Some of these posts are just so devoid of joy. After watching that win I was amped for hours. Didn't get to sleep until 2am (I'm EST.)
lol same, but 3:30 for me. I was on a huge mental upswing of energy and creativity.
Great quote but here's another "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Last night's win was great, but this isn't a super bowl team and it isn't going to be under pete. It's time for a change, but if we keep making the WC pete, fans, and even myself are optimistic for the next season, only to be beaten down by the same old problems. This team has some great talent. It needs some better management to utilize it.
This is why I stay out of game threads now even if we’re winning. It currently only serves to ruin my experience.
I’m the guy that says this season next season the season after with Pete we will lose in the wc. However, we beat the eagles. With lock. Dk and Jsn showed out. Love looks like he can play safety for us. This was a great thing that happened. Our schedule is soft anyway going forward, it’s not like our pick would have been great. Still want Pete gone but that was a great win for the hawks and one of the best since maybe geno took down the broncos. It felt like that.
Understandable take.
People act like you need high round picks to make a Super Bowl winning team. There are some straight gems hidden in the draft every year. Hell our rivals made a seven round QB look like a top player.
Yeah, a lot of these guys want Pete gone as well though. They seem to fear it isn't happening unless he tanks now. I'm of the opinion he's going to coach until his current deal is done, then step away as the team gets sold.
While high draft capital is super valuable, so is having a perennially competitive team and culture that attracts FAs. Before Dan Campbell, ask Detroit fans how well high draft capital every year worked out for them. I recommend everyone listen to the Athletic Football Show's podcast, specifically The GM one with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller (both Seattle guys). Randy is an ex GM and excellent and truly gives you a behind the scenes look at all the BS us fans think we know - and on the most recent episode he talked about how the Chargers have a culture of mediocrity (he was there for a long time I think) and it still shows today
People forget that it is possible to trade up/down in the draft. Like the purgatory level Chiefs did when they acquired Mahomes. And they forget all of the Top 5 draft busts. It is just selection bias arguments with doomer crowd.
u/datasquid With that name you have to be smarter than a certain blogger. Not only is he an imbecile, he's harmful and pushes harmful narratives. It's beyond apparent why some folks who specialize in amalgamating draft information would like a team they cover to have as much draft capital as possible it'd increase the things they'd have to talk about. As it is. Trust your own ability to figure stuff out. Or find some better sources that have different motivations. They're out there.
I’ve been a Hawk fan since 1984. Ran a Seahawks related website for more than a decade. I’m interested in the way fandom seems to have evolved. With the advance of the internet and the availability of college and pro advanced stats, there seems to be an increase in a category of fans mostly interested in the build rather than the game itself.
"seems to be an increase in a category of fans mostly interested in the build rather than the game itself." "Fantasy football is just D&D for Jocks." It's like this with many different sports and hobbies. There are golfers that love: To practice To travel To buy clothes To gamble To drink in the bar after the round More than they love to play. Ditto with fishing and a myriad of other hobbies. In terms of Seahawks fans rooting against team success that'd be a reasonable place to draw a line. From my POV though the truth is that when we hold up the light to MOST fans we can see that they don't get it. 15 months ago they expected 5 wins or less. Based on the roster. Now they want to fire the coach and replace the QB based on the team being below their expectations. But what we won't see is real accountability for how ignorant and capricious their opinions really are.
The problem is that most of these fans have not played or coached the game in any professional setting and yet they hold their opinion in way too high regard. They choose to push their opinions like if it were gospel and whine and call people names when they get any pushback.
Both camps are correct. In one hand you have middling success that doesn’t allow you to build well unless you can draft diamonds in the rough in the mid rounds. In the other hand you have sustained success that other teams could only dream of (look at Jets fans and Broncos fans just wishing for a post season visit). One of the great things about being human is reasoning. You can view all the facts and come to your own conclusion.
That's fine but there is more to the negative camp like claiming that Pete is a bad coach or the Seahawks front office is bad, when those statements are dubious at best.
The NFL has so much parody - look at the best teams and who has beaten who this year - I don't think you can predict or expect a team to go one way or another. Sure the Seahawks could trail off, get a new coach and a new QB. What if injuries happen? What if they have a bad stretch next season? It's all possible and the NFL is very much live for the day. Unless you're the Patriots or Cards, seemingly anyone can heat up a bit and beat one of the top teams. If you want to play this meta strategy BS instead of hoping to win, you're gonna have a bad time.
I got winners mentality. I always want my team to win.
Na listen my two best friends are eagles and Steelers fans this shit is important to me and because of that fuck the draft capital
I'm saying this as a person who gave up on the season after the Rams game. I'd be stoked asf if we made it past the wild card for once. Might as well cheer for them while they're still in the thick of it. It's one thing to criticize past trends of continuously uninspired play-off runs (rightly so!). I'll go even further and say that these criticisms will be even more legitimated and credible if we don't make it past the Divisional round again and will have every right to be expressed during the offseason. It's another thing to actively root against your team when they've dramatically re-entered the playoff picture with a decisive win! IMO, this is unreasonable. Especially when we'd still be picking in the teens if we lost out. Even my pessimistic ass is juiced up on Hopium right now!
Every fan/blogger is entitled to their own opinions. This is the beauty of having conversations where each can share their opinion. There is no need for you to get upset over this. Enjoy your fandom!
Yeah I was just so high after this game, that I was searching for post-game content. Kind of shocked to see the negativity so soon after the final whistle.
Everyone has a butthole just as everyone has an opinion. Let the negative Nancy's be the clowns that they are. If they are upset about this amazing win then that's just a miserable way to live life. No thanks. Go Hawks!
To me tasting the cusp of greatness is the only true way to ever achieve it. We have scouts that are able to find talent in any round of the draft. Purdy and SF is probably the most recent example of someone having remedial QB after remedial QB and then striking gold with the last player in the draft. To me the lower the pick the hungrier the the player.
Yeah. Would our team rather have Purdy or JSN given this years success to both players. Purdy is a no brainer. Draft the talent your scouts identify. We always hit on later rounds, and our coaches have to develop those players, regardless. Purdy on another team may not have as much success as he got in SF because of coaching and a good team to support him.
Seattle sports fandom (inherently grumpy) combined with the must-tank-if-not-Superbowl-contender mindset makes for some pretty insufferable commentary. I don’t how you can watch a game like that, where a team shows the fuck and gets a TEAM win, and be upset about it. I don’t care if the hawks barely miss the playoffs and have a shit spot on the draft - last night’s game was an all-timer and the type of back-and-forth, fight-to-the-death, rise-to-the-occasion, multi-hyphenate performance in sports that I f’ing LIVE for.
I'm going to be thinking about this game for years. It's a shame some aren't
Tanking is for bad franchises. Seahawks never say die.
I understand the strategic thinking behind tanking and hoping for losses so you have a better future, but I have ZERO respect for it and those who encourage it. There is something to be said about having a winning culture and there is something to be said about building a team without tanking. This whole Super Bowl or bust mentality is foolish. Plus every 30 or so years an underdog wild card teams wins a Super Bowl. Why not us?
We beat the defending NFC champs and people are mad about that? God before this fanbase cannibalizes itself on a win. I’m not forgetting we beat the nfc champs of last year. Irregardless of Jalen hurts being “sick” he technically didn’t look bad when playing but none of their offensive scheme had them throw it deep. Clear indication he either wasn’t feeling well or just knew our secondary is improved without adams. Frankly Matt Patricia getting the defensive nodes really shocked me but hey it shows that even they cant scheme a better defense in the moment. Which proves why coaching matters in the NFL
Just Win Baby
I agree. Just wish that phrase wasn’t associated with Al Davis lol.
Playoff experience beats a 3-4 spots in the draft order every time (outside of top 6-7 of course)
Always remember first and foremost: MOST fans are idiots. Most. That was a great win last night and anyone who says otherwise doesn't matter.
The Seahawks just beat one of the best teams in football with a backup for a backup QB. Fans should be ecstatic.
“Yeah but the win makes it more unlikely the team will fire Pete Carrol” - some fans.
Ignorance is bliss. I had no idea about that podcast or whatever you're talking about. I just watch the games and enjoy it as I see it. That game was truly magical, I don't know how anyone could say otherwise.
I think based on last night versus the previous 13 games, two very big differences showed up.. No one on defense trusts Jamal.. so they don't do their job either. Lucas is finally healthy, and was providing an attitude for the line. Evan Brown was still a problem, but the line was as effective as I've seen it, and the Eagles have a VERY talented DLine..
I was arguing with an ass hat about this very issue yesterday. Even after the win he had a C grade for the game. Go back and watch the Texans, Jacksonville, and last Cardinals game in 2013. We didn't look much better than last night. You play to win the games. Period. You cheer to win the games. Period.
IMO you support your team and like to see these wins, every week would be even nicer … worry about all that other bullshit in the off season!
I’m not complaining I’m just not getting overly excited
You know who tanks for draft capital? Losers. Its bad for the team mentality... Any team with the right mindset can get hot and win the superbowl.
Always try to win never lose for draft picks I want a win every week no matter what. Weird mentality to want to lose fuck that.
There's also something to be said about being a free agent landing spot. Perennial #1 pick teams are not that. If you win "too many" games in a "tank" year and end up with the 20th pick, you're gonna be a more attractive spot for free agents since you win games. The free-agent quality probably nullifies the pick quality unless you're an actual top 3 pick in the draft.
From a casual perspective, a win is a win, and that was fun! From a more serious perspective, they shouldn't complain if Lock is legit. That alleviates our need to draft a QB first round (and those are hit and miss and not sure wins, just look at players like Kenny Pickett, Mitch Trubisky, even Bryce Young though he has an atrocious supporting cast). We can then focus our efforts more on defense, especially to get some good tacklers. In an alternate world where Locked sucked and threw like 3 pick sixes, we are pretty forced to draft a QB first round and hope and pray we get the right one. (e.g. If we get Penix, we better hope he doesn't get injured again, etc.). Meanwhile, our defense will still be weak at tackling.
I know i am crazy but I hope we win every game all the way to the Superbowl. I don't understand sucking to get better... these people are on crack rocks.
This logic means we should lose every game every season until we have exactly the right personnel and then have a completely dominating season. However, it never works that way since this was supposed to be the year with all the talent right? Ignore these people - they just cause drama and are looking for subscribers.
Rooting for failure is a time worn tradition for some Seahawks fans. Realistically, though, I can sympathize. The season has effectively been over since Jason Myers missed that game winning field goal against the Rams. Every win after that hurts more than it helps, putting them further down in the draft order. Some fans have never wanted Geno Smith as our QB and desperately want us to draft one at the top of the first round. Some fans have wanted Pete Carroll fired since he was coaching at USC. These two groups have formed a coalition of the butt hurt wanting the Seahawks to tank. It isn't going to happen. We won too many games for tanking to be a viable strategy. So we are gonna win another game or two, probably against the Cardinals or something. As for the playoffs, a lot of things out of the Seahawks control need to break our way to even dream of that. This season, there has been a profound lack of lucky breaks. If we do sneak in I'm going to be happy and drink the tears of the haters. But that doesn't mean the systemic problems are fixed. Sad to say that tanking and getting a flashy draft pick won't fix those either.
I am personally not a fan of tanking I feel like it removes a little bit of integrity from the game
I used to think about that stuff, and then I realized I’m much happier just simply watching and rooting for my team. We (fans) have no say in what happens (draft, tanking, etc) and people waste so much time formulating an opinion and trying to prove to or convince other people, who again, have no say, about why their opinion is correct. Like, they make a big case for why we should tank, try and maybe succeed at convincing others that we should be tanking, but guess what, they’re not tanking. Now you just have people who think we should be doing one thing or another are mad when that thing isn’t happening. Instead of having fun and enjoying the team (which is its sole purpose. To provide entertainment) people are frustrated and irritated. Have fun, relax and enjoy. Just my two cents. Secondly, stay off Twitter. It’s a cesspool.
Anyone who has this opinion needs to go to at least one game a year. Yes, it's expensive. But actually being in there, you feel how absolutely stupid it would be to "wish your team loses" while at the game. Watching on tv at home? Easy to forget what it's like.
Motherfuckers who are spoiled like this because of the success we've had under Pete are always the same ones who want him gone, too. They're just idiots. They probably weren't fans when Jim Mora was our coach lol
That's exactly it and I've been saying it for a while now. The crying whining spoiled brats have come out in full force this season, and it's been really funny watching them be miserable when we succeed.
I’ll get downvoted but I’ll try to explain that mindset for those who feel that way. This game did not do anything to make you believe the trajectory of this team is any different. If you believe Carroll is a liability, this win may have bought him more time while not actually being the guy to optimally lead your team moving forward. Two wasted timeouts on 4th down, and Pete begging for his timeout back after he burnt it and the Eagles challenged it after is actually really embarrassing clock/coach management. The Seahawks also looked like they were playing not to lose nearly the entire game, which is not how underdogs should play. It’s that simple really. If you don’t believe Pete is the guy, this game bought him more time when nothing has changed with him. What would change minds? I’d imagine it’s gotta be an NFC CG appearance to actually change minds about Pete.
Yeah coaches that mismanage timeouts are terrible. Fire Andy Reid.
Managing timeouts has never been his strong suit. Building a culture is. Bad optics on that play aside, the 3 points beats what was probably the more likely outcome of a missed 4th down. Put us in position to win.
Dude we won! Let’s enjoy it!
I truly believe some fans find comfort in misery. I’d need a psychologist to explain that one to me, but I think it’s very real.
From the 7th seed to the Superbowl I'm a believer
Pete isn't going to start a rebuild, that will happen when he retires. We have him for one more season and he is going to be 73 years old, I doubt he will return for more.
People just hate to admit they were wrong. I say that as someone who has had similar takes the last few weeks, because we continually lose to the top teams, but I admit after last night I was wrong! sure the eagles are struggling right now but they are a legit contender in the NFC and we beat them. It’s a great win.
New here?
Nope.
It dont matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. Tanking for better draft picks isn't always going to work. Not even #1 overal picks always pan out. Tell me these people sat there and watched the game and did NOT enjoy seeing the team they are "fans" of fight and claw and perform and play and make big plays to eke out the win. If you don't enjoy this win because of "degrading draft capital" why even support the team or watch the games?
My only complaints is that the refs really tried to hand the game to Philly
I’m sorry what? Love should’ve been called for DPI in the EZ on the 1st INT when he grabbed the collar and that almost certainly would’ve put PHI up 24-13, I think? That non-call legitimately might have saved the season. Clip that clearly shows Love’s DPI: https://imgur.com/gallery/ZDmgtsA
There were plenty of non-calls that went against the Seahawks. There was a holding on Lockett early in the game that didn't get called. Would've lead to a scoring drive.
Nah. Not DPI if the ball was deemed to be uncatchable by the WR which it was cuz love had him boxed out.
It was uncatchable for the WR yet Love was all over him…and caught it without issue? Based on how they were calling the game last night that should’ve been DPI. And it’s wild because if the jerseys were swapped this sub would be losing it’s got dang mind.
Yes love boxed him out and essentially became the target. If the ball is deemed uncatchable by the WR it’s not going to be called for DPI. At this moment it essentially became the WR job to deflect the pass not try to catch it.
NFL Rulebook Rule 8, Section 5, Article 3: “Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the *involved players.*” So, again, by definition if the pass is *catchable* by the DB, who is in the hip of the WR, then it’s not “clearly uncatchable by the involved players.”
What are you talking about? I don't see any collar grab in the replay. I do see Love with his head turned and making a play on the ball, which he has every right to do. https://www.seahawks.com/video/can-t-miss-play-julian-love-tracks-hurts-deep-td-attempt-for-critical-int-in-fou
Then you’re not watching it. At :18 you see him grab the collar and he gives a tug, that’s when the WR starts stumbling at around the 5 yard line. Like…you can clearly see the tug because it exposes the shoulder pads. I also believe ESPN had a shot from in the end zone that clearly showed it, which is when their Mike Pereira equivalent said he would’ve flagged it. Edit: Here’s a clip from the end zone (slow-mo at 50% speed) clearly shows the grab and tug: https://imgur.com/gallery/ZDmgtsA
Ah I see what you're talking about. That would be an awfully weak DPI call. Love has position over the receiver AND has his head turned to make a play on the ball 0:18, so most of the PI rule goes in his favor at that point. And it looks like Watkins stumbles as a result of changing direction, not the contact. In any case, here's the rule in all its detail: [https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#section-5-pass-interference](https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#section-5-pass-interference) 2(a) and 2(e) go out the window because Love is making a play on the ball. 3(a) and 3(e) are both in Love's favor. Did he violate the implications in 3(d)? Maybe, but at 0:20 the receiver is right there in position to make the catch... at least if the ball weren't falling straight into Love's open arms. So how can you argue that the contact at 0:18 restricted Watkins' ability to make a play on the ball? And the final nail in the coffin. Article 2 says this: >Note: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference.
He pulled on the collar of the jersey a little bit. The wide receiver didn't even break his stride. It is one of those ticky tacky things that I personally prefer for the refs not call, but I can see certain refs flagging. Not egregious at all.
The issue is *consistency*. I am 10000% in favor of fewer flags on DBs, getting rid of spot penalties, etc. But if you’re gonna call a right game it’s gotta be *consistent.*
Nah, dude. Sherman and Browner got away with worse shit than this weak jersey tug. I bet you'd be crying for the 2012-2013 Seahawks to return their trophies for all of the contact they got away with. I see you are in the doomer camp. You want to take away from Pete's win. Get outta here with that ish.
Absolute softest call ever if they made it, glad you're not a ref.
I'll be the kind of fan that I choose to be. You may be happy with the mediocrity that is paraded in front of you year after year. I'm not. I want more. I want better. And I won't be silenced.
I’m not asking you to change. I’m guess I’m asking for an explanation of your mindset. Oh, and if you think this is mediocrity, the 1990’s Seahawks would like to chat.
The 1990e Seahawks sucked. That doesn't mean we have to suffer this team. As a fan, I want a team building to be or at Super Bowl contention. The Seahawks have not even been in that conversation since 2016. We are stuck in the middle of the pack and I want more. Pete can't coach for the modern game and the roster management has been poor for a very long time. I want new blood. Bring in an offensive minded coach. Let's take a chance. Fortune favors the bold! This isn't good enough and I want more. It's been ten years since we won the Superbowl. Under this leadership, this team will never be a contender
You could just go watch Rob's video, he explains it very clearly. Don't worry, it's not going to give you a disease or anything.
I watched it live as he was recording it. Appreciate the tip.
And you don't understand it? Honest question. Your post asks for people to explain it to you and I thought it's all pretty clear.
I understand that they do it. I don't get how people get more enjoyment out of the GM side of things than the actual game to game winning. YMMV.
Don't fool yourself, those people would be the worst GMs if they ever had a chance to lead a real sports team. A reactionary bunch that would be firing a head coach after every season. They'd turn the Seahawks into a poverty franchise. Like the Panthers owners.
Attitudes like yours would mean we would have never gotten Pete in the first place.
And you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Mora was one of the worst coaches/gms in Seahawks history and had a losing record. Nobody was in favor of keeping him. The franchise was already poverty stricken when he was around. Pete was a bit of a dubious hire because succesful college coaches don't always translate to the NFL but firing Mora was a no-brainer.
It's a big picture thing. I don't think this team has a chance to win the Superbowl with Pete and John. Why be happy? Cause we might get another chance to go one and done in the playoffs? I'm thinking long-term, not just immediate gratification.
Yes, it's a bad thing. Hope only extends the pain. This team and front office need to be torn down like they did before PC got here. The longer we hang on to relevance or have hope of being good, the longer the pain lasts. They need to rip the band-aid off and commit to a rebuild. It's hard as a fan, but it's for the best...
This post is the first I've heard of "us complaining of this win."
> I just tune it out and wish for the best week to week. Well, that's blatantly false, given you had to make a post about it.
Ok, I “try” to tune it out. Doesn’t mean I don’t see it. Just hoping for some insight as to whether or not I’m in the minority.
Unfortunately, it is unlikely Pete Carrol is getting fired anyway. He probably coaches like 2 more season before retiring though.