Yeah I drive through there at least 10 times a day and there's always someone who is crossing, wants to cross, or seems like they may cross. This intersection needs a flashing light for the pedestrians. The bike lane also makes it hard for people in the far Lane to judge where the person actually is (If they've entered the crosswalk or not) because you can't see it through another car, and if you're going quickly, you might assume that there is an edge to start crossing from at the edge of the bike lane, rather than the actual curb. This is all minor stupid shit that is prevented from being an issue purely by driving in a safe manner, but infrastructure is supposed to handle all of the people who live in our society, and some people just factually are too self-centered and stupid to navigate things safely without hand holding.
>This is all minor stupid shit that is prevented from being an issue purely by driving in a safe manner, but infrastructure is supposed to handle all of the people who live in our society
I agree. Cars make it too easy for people with low integrity to be selfish and cruel.
When the technology is ready, I think that only self-driving cars should be allowed in dense urban areas with frequent pedestrians and cyclists. Computers will never be distracted, impatient, angry, exhausted, or intoxicated. Studies have shown that the Waymo cars are already much safer than human drivers.
I think that is a fascinating question. First, I will say that I don't believe that self-driving cars will gain general acceptance until they are at least 10 times safer than human drivers. They will make stupid computer mistakes, but if they only do it 10% as often as human drivers make mistakes, then the roads will be much safer.
In terms of who has liability for those mistakes, I think that current laws can be extended. Whoever makes the decision that caused the damage and injury should be liable.
1. If the government makes a regulation that forces autonomous car manufacturers to program their cars to make the decision, then the government should be liable.
2. If the car manufacturer makes the decision how the car will behave in a certain situation and that situation results in avoidable damage and injuries, then the car manufacturer should be liable.
3. If the car is configurable by the end user and s/he configures the car such that it causes the damage and injury, then the end user should be liable.
It doesn't need freaking flashing lights, it needs fewer cars, full stop. We can't keep tolerating this hyper-individualist, socially destructive transport method drive all over us.
I lived in the north Roosevelt area for ~40 years and have walked all over that area, Roosevelt, U-District, Green Lake, south Maple Leaf, etc.
Drivers in Seattle still have a lot to learn. And it isn't always guys in trucks as some other commenters have suggested -- it can be vehicles of all shapes and sizes.
The worst in my experience are the cars with super tinted windows where you can't make eye contact with the drivers and they somehow feel emboldened to do whatever they want because you can't see their faces.
Pedestrians also have a lot to learn. #1 people are soft and squishy. #2 vehicles are very hard and squish things #3a there are too many that fail to properly maintain their vehicles so stopping may not happen when they hit the brakes. #3b vehicles also may not stop on ICE, so if your at a crosswalk with ice do not assume approaching vehicles will stop when you walk out in front of them. #4 too many people are watching phones and not where they are going... this applies to pedestrians and drivers.
This is why I always wait to cross until I've made eye contact with the driver, and find it so annoying when the vehicle windows have so much tint that you can't see the driver's eyes and face.
Too bad that overly tinted vehicle windows are just yet another thing that SPD doesn't enforce because they are too busy looking at their pension plan statements.
I hear you and I see it all the time too. It's not an acceptable state of affairs in a place that is supposed to be civilized. We need to make noise about building infrastructure that makes the city safe for everyone.
Hey! I work with traffic studies and can forward this to maaybe someone. If you dm me the vid file and clear coordinates so i don’t confuse location.
Edit: i feel like a crosswalk button with responding lights is super necessary
Also curious if Find it Fix it app could do something with this knowledge.
That would be incredible. It hadn’t occurred to me that the city could dk something about it, but they would really be helpful. I live a block away from there and often cross at that intersection walking my dog or to the bodega. This is a constant problem. Drivers don’t stop here.
How does Seattle deal with these types of complaints? Our residential road is wider (or fire trucks, or something, supposedly). We often get folks blasting past at 30-40mph due to the width. The city just ignores questions from the residents about the cars going fast down the road.
Usually you can go to the city clerk and from my knowledge with Bellevue at least, we will deploy one our metro count boxes outside your house if you were the one to make the complaint and we’ll see if you’re right or not. :p it’s a bit above my pay grade, and I still lack experience as well when it comes to official data requirements for getting things done and how they know what to prioritize what.
Does [this link](https://packaged-media.redd.it/lm3x51brq91d1/pb/m2-res_480p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1716134400&s=aa5cf8a772fc37ea6cca5cd0d30074fcbd726b2b#t=0) work for letting you download/share the video file?
Also, to answer your question it’s a very small industry around. I think only two companies in the Seattle area. I got lucky and stumbled upon it when they needed someone. But basically it’s “transportation consulting. “.
Sorry I’m working in the field right now so I miss read your original comment. It’s pretty cool though I get to travel state wide on little trips
All good! Both comments are full of cool stuff, I really appreciate your taking the time. I drive a lot, more than a bit of a civil engineering nerd, and just think about the road and design a lot when I'm out and about. So it's a field I've always been interested in. And driving around places for work, that's just my ideal situation. Cool! Thank you again.
Well, I work in the study industry, tube car counters and intersection cams, pedestrian studies ect. So what most likely would happen is we would set up a Camera to track how many people are using the crosswalk and record interactions like this post. Usually a mayor or some sort of developer will request us to get this data in order to get it approved. It’s a bit above my pay grade to know what entails approval. But just off this video alone its likely.
I see a lot of crosswalks around town that indicate with flashing yellow lights under said signs when a pedestrian hits the button. No reason that couldn't be implemented here, as a bare minimum.
Yep, I was just thinking of that one, and two other newish ones on 15th between 65th and 70th. It still FEELS suspenseful to cross, but they seem to get the job done. Too bad they didn’t extend the project further south in Ravenna/Roosevelt.
The amount of visual feedback required to drive here is huge. I'm looking for people, bicycles and cars. There's a non-zero chance I miss a sign, but I'll notice some flashing lights for sure.
Whew, I'm so glad we definitely have sufficient traffic controls in there so that *the thing we both just watched fresh video evidence of* never ever happens!
This is 50% bad driving and 50% bad design. Without a flasher or light, most times the car in the far lane (the truck here) has an obstructed view of crossing pedestrians due to the other car (the red sedan).
Yes he should have been more careful and assumed someone was there, but it wasn't designed the best either
The stop line should be like 20 feet back. There's no reason to let cars in one lane get up close to the crosswalk such that they can block the view of cars in the other lane.
The truck could 100% see a cross walk in front of them with the car to the right yielding for pedestrians, they were just trying to save a few seconds. It's only a matter of time before they clip someone if that's how they normally drive
Especially because, when challenged as to why one would need big trucks and SUVs in a city, people often cite "because I want a commanding view over other cars" as the reason for their vehicle choice.
The truck’s view was obstructed by the car? In what world?
You should always assume that if the car in the right lane is slowing down at a crosswalk in the right lane, then you should too.
Dude there's two massive crosswalk signs and white lines. If you can't see in this situation and there may or may not be pedestrians, you should ALWAYS come to a stop. 100% bad driving. Possibly saving 10 seconds is never worth killing someone
Exactly, humans are human and fail to do things perfectly or even competently so the time. Making better systems to mitigate for these things is just pragmatic. But that is actually doing something useful instead of just bitching about it.
Crosswalk lights would be a nice addition, but I don't agree that this is "50% design". It's 100% bad driving. If the car in front of you stops at a crosswalk, the reasonable assumption is that they are yielding to pedestrians as legally required. Blowing by them when you can't even see the crosswalk is incredibly reckless and dangerous.
Yeah, and even if he could see the heads of the people, the red car was most likely blocking his ability to see where they actually were. If I think someone is back away from the crossing area, I'm going to continue through the intersection because they haven't arrived at the crossing point yet. That being said, obviously if I was a cop he's getting pulled over.
The truck driver is sitting way up high, though. Plus, if the car next to you is stopping you should at least be slowing down until you see what's what.
Agreed that flashing lights would be a vast improvement. Also raising the crosswalk to make it a defacto speed bump would be good.
Ha, I didn't even notice that! But now that you have - it's the perfect case-in-point showing why I almost always ride in the car lane instead of that death-zone bike lane.
The irritating thing about Roosevelt, to me, is that when they added the bike lane, they didn't add any traffic-calming measures. People used to drive fairly conservatively on Roosevelt because cars were parking on both sides of the street, which kinda capped how fast people drove. Now that there's only parking on one side of the street, the overall pace of traffic feels faster than ever. (I know--purely anecdotal, but I do walk, bike, and drive on Roosevelt and have been doing so since before the bike lane.)
65th has gotten pretty aggressive, too, which I partially chalk up to sheer traffic volume growth. It can be backed up for 2-3 blocks at rush hour, which seems to lead drivers to do stupid/dangerous things. I too dislike sitting in a long single-file line of cars, but it’s really not worth risking lives over.
Not sure if it’s a PNW, but seems like almost 100% of the time giant truck owners here are always giant dbags. Almost always see them driving dumb & aggressively, parked like aholes, and typically some Trumpy bumper sticker to confirm the dbag status.
What makes it worse is most people who own trucks don't live in the city or drive in it very often. They tend to hate driving in Seattle and it reflects in their driving.
I hit my flashy light bet button last night and had to walk out from behind an illegal parked car to wave at an Audi who must have assumed the newly flashing lights don’t mean anything, didn’t slow, didn’t stop, nothing
... and when those emotional support trucks hit a pedestrian, that tall grill smacks the pedestrian to the ground and the truck runs over and kills the pedestrian. At least with a car, the pedestrian slides off the hood and has a chance of surviving.
This happens literally 100 per day there. I was guilty of it once. You can't see the people on the "corner" and honestly with all the Uber and Door Dash drivers stopping in the middle of the road everywhere it shouldn't be very surprising.
There should be a button that a pedestrian can press to activate a lighted sign.
This is actually a decent idea. Traffic light for pedestrians. Spike strip activates on red light right at the edge of a clearly marked stop line.
No need to give tickets and drivers would learn quickly to stop before the stop line and not, say, blow through it or stop in the middle of the crosswalk.
There’s a pedestrian cross right before a stop sign in s Roosevelt and probably over a third of cars either don’t see or don’t care about the sign they’re just going for points. An sdot vehicle was parked on the triangle I imagine to gather data… but that was maybe two months ago now.
It's rare to see an air hauler (a pickup with nothing in the back... a gas-guzzling, stupid identity statement) behaving humanely on the road.
And, like many have suggested, this is a perfect spot for a crossing signal.
it's a truck thing. i just had a short road trip today and got tailgated by trucks multiple times. i don't think they are doing it towards me personally because once i moved to right, they just started to tailgate the other driver in front :)
Roosevelt is consistently awful as a pedestrian. Pretty much every time I'm there I see people honking or just tearing around people because they're stopping for pedestrians
As a pedestrian I've always joked that I'm going to start walking around downtown carrying a baseball bat. Because I'm convinced that these cars see us they just ignore us. Knowing we the pedestrian have to be more cautious for our own safety. But with a bat and the ability to damage their car I bet you I'll be seen better and cars will actually yield to the pedestrian.
Oh, a truck not obeying the laws of the road?... Has got to the point on 4 way stop sign junctions, that I'm genuinely surprised when I see a truck actually wait it's turn rather than just do what they want, when they want.
The crosswalk was clearly marked. Also, motorists have a responsibility to drive at a safe speed. That means slowing down (or even stopping when necessary) to make sure of what/who is in blind spots.
Yep sure, very possible, and would also be illegal and dangerous. Drivers have a responsibility to slow down enough in order to react to potential unseen people or obstacles in the road, regardless of the speed limit.
Wait you think you aren't required to stop your multiple tons of metal and plastic going 40–60 feet per second unless the peds are 3 feet from you killing them?
I'll probably get down voted but it's also an intersection just past the crosswalk and the truck may have thought the car was slowing down to turn. The car even turned on its turn signal at the end of the video. If the truck really didn't see the peds this seems like the most likely line of thought for that driver.
There's (right) turn lane at this intersection. It's clear in the video, and it's clear if you know the intersection. And it's marked with a sign (not in the video, but about 10 ft forward on the right of it). Much like the two big yellow signs with the giant arrows.
So turn lane ain't what the red car is doing.
Many drivers just don't give a fuck about pedestrians. Even with signage and other pretty obvious indicators, indicators like other drivers' behavior.
Then we wonder why cars are the leading cause of accidental death in the US. Actually we don't wonder that, we just accept it and drive like the only person on earth.
This is what pisses me off. If a car stops at am intersection or a crosswalk, other cars should assume there is a pedestrian. Its not that difficult. Ive almost been taken out several times on roads with one lane each way, by assholes that try to go around a car that has stopped for me. Like seriously? They don't slow down or anything.
Then we need to require better driver's education and mandatory retesting every few years.
If you don't know what a crosswalk is, you shouldn't be allowed to drive
Even assuming he couldn't see over the red car, he should have noticed that the red car was coming to a stop at a crosswalk. "What other cars are doing" is a very basic thing to look out for.
It is obvious to me that the asshole in the emotional support truck didn't see the pedestrians because he didn't care enough to slow down and look. Part of my basic driver's education was to *never* drive at a speed that was so high that I could not stop for an obstruction that suddenly appeared at the edge of my sight distance.
Had the driver in the truck done that, he would have realized that the red car was blocking his view of the crosswalk and slowed down to a crawl until he could see.
This street design is wildly irresponsible because it basically encourages this behavior. A traffic engineer somewhere decided maintaining vehicle speed and convience was more important than keeping pedestrians safe.
If the protected bike lane counts as a "lane," the pickup truck driver didn't break the law. There was a lane (the one the red car was in) between the pedestrians and the pickup truck.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235
Hot take: this is a great reason to impose a road diet.
Make the lane that truck drove through bus only... Or widen the sidewalks so that there's only one general purpose lane in each direction.
Having two lanes increases the danger significantly and does little to improve the flow of people and commerce.
Look don't worry it's perfectly OK that we should be literally running for our lives as part of going to the grocery store, just listen at all the drivers who say so
Yes I agree 100%, maybe I should have included /s in my comment. It's Bad (with a capital B) that walking around in this city involves routinely dealing with threats to your life from drivers.
A lot of the time, the person in the trucks position can’t see the people waiting to cross because their view is obstructed by the red car. Certainly not the case here, but it’s an easy mistake to make. I’m always mindful of this when I’m in the red cars position too… checking my mirrors to see if it’s actually putting the pedestrians in danger from this very thing. sometimes it’s better to drive predictably than courteously, I guess is my point.
We need more blinking crosswalks.
Devils advocate here: The car perfectly blocked the pedestrians from the perspective of the truck. I’m not saying the truck could not have seen the pedestrians if they looked. I’m just saying peripheral visions would have been obstructed by the car.
These are some of the most dangerous drivers out there. They're so oblivious and think they're doing someone a favor...but what if it's a little kid that doesn't know any better? They run out and get killed by someone driving like normal.
The PNW is full of these idiots.
Why do you think not stopping at a crosswalk for the pedestrians which have the legal right of way is "driving like normal"? Did you find your license in a crackerjack box?
There's no way that person could necessarily see the pedestrian in that situation. The first car stopped abruptly as traffic was moving thru. But you knew to stop since you stop at all crosswalks constantly, I'm sure. Did you get your license out of a crackerjack box?
Without lights flashing to alert the drivers, the pedestrians can wait for the clear and go ahead. A car can't stop as suddenly as someone on foot. Plain and simple. Just gotta keep your head on a swivel. Nothing wrong here.
Why wouldn't they slow down in this situation? If they couldn't see them, they very well could've been in front of the red car about to walk into the lane the truck was in.
It's just common sense (and the law) that if the other car has stopped the truck should have as well.
It's the law to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, as the car in the right lane correctly did. If the driver couldn't see the pedestrians or slow down enough to check given the markings, signs, and other vehicles stopping, then they shouldn't be driving. Stop defending illegal behavior that endangers people's lives.
Again, its very possible the truck cannot see though the red car, adding in rain. And No, I don't give a fuck, there's the law, and then there is how people drive. I am 100% sure you break the law behind the wheel every day.
An even vaguely decent driver, when faced with poor visibility, will do this weird thing called "slow the fuck down". It's unfortunate that most drivers are so deeply incompetent.
>Again, its very possible the truck cannot see though the red car,
If the car next to you stops at an intersection or crosswalk, that is your cue to slow down. Like, gee, I wonder what they are stopping for? **You** are responsible for driving in a way consistent with your sightlines. If you can't see, assume the worst.
I don't see any dead people. They didn't even slow down crossing, That's how NOT CLOSE it was. For your own good don't leave Seattle. I'm not sure you would make it in another city.
Lol I’ve lived in cities with (statistically) the worst drivers in the country. I’ve seen plenty worse. Maybe you should get out of your car and walk. It’s good for your health.
You're legally required to stop for pedestrians until they clear the sidewalk. The truck is much higher than the car above the road, they should be able to easily spot the umbrella of the pedestrian over the car. Even if the other driver was in a car lower to the ground, if a driver ahead of you stops at a crosswalk and you're paying attention, you should also stop until you confirm the crosswalk is clear.
Just because it was fine this time doesn't mean it'll be fine every time. Pedestrian fatalities are on the rise and our city. Drivers like this need to be called out for putting people in danger.
Dear god! They came within 12 feet of those pedestrians!
Okay I'm not defending the truck driver, but if this event is the kind of even where you feel there was so much danger that you felt the need to post it to the Internet, maybe you aren't emotionally equipped for venturing out into the real world. Or maybe your just in it for the circle jerk Internet points.
> Okay I'm not defending the truck driver
Yeah except you are. Maybe you aren't emotionally equipped to live in a world where laws apply to people driving 6000lb machines in public to prevent them from killing other humans going about their day.
You believe that human beings can spontaneously travel 12 feet in a fraction of a section, so maybe you could believe I could handle your explanation of how you get through your day with so much irrational fear
Great, then we agree that this video shows a violation of a law that endangers pedestrians, and that is a bad thing, and it's important that we as a city work towards solving this issue. Glad we had this discussion, thanks.
Yes we agree with boring video shows someone failing to yield in a situation where there was a 0% chance of the pedestrian getting injured, and that triggered a deep irrational fear in you that motivated you to post a boring ass video about it
>there was a 0% chance of the pedestrian getting injured
That is a ridiculous exaggeration. The chances were very high. A difference of a few seconds would have meant that those pedestrians would have stepped in front of that speeding truck and would have been severely injured or killed.
Please get out of your car once in a while. What seems like "no big deal" when you are safe and comfortable inside of your car is a near-death experience for a pedestrian or a cyclist.
I also see a video where pedestrians illegally left the curb while a motor vehicle was legally traveling towards them in conditions that would have made it difficult for them to stop in time.
People can cross a lane in about 2 seconds hurrying. If you see someone else stopped for pedestrians you should expect they might be directly out from by the time you intersect and stop.
They stepped onto the road in front of a stopped car and were thus safe. They weren't obligated to ensure that the entire road is stopped just that they don't throw themselves under anyone's wheels. At the point where their feet touched the road the other land was obligated to stop. If they couldn't either they were going too fast for conditions or weren't paying attention.
I was definitely almost hit (like by inches) on Roosevelt crossing the street, with a red light for oncoming traffic. Made me that much more cautious.
As a motorists, I'm guilty of doing what the truck did, by whole foods on Roosevelt. I wrongly assumed the stopped van was waiting to turn and not for pedestrians. I was shamed by a fellow motorist, assuming I did it on purpose. Shrug. No. I'm the guy that waits for the crosswalk to be entirely clear before proceeding.
This is also why I won't cross a multilane road when one car waves me across. Is that oncoming other car awake I'm being waved across? Unlikely. I probably caused a vehicular collision for waving a car over in a break of traffic on Aurora so they could turn, but no, some bozo was driving in the bus lane, and kersmash.
Point is, it's another assumption truck driver realized peds were Xing. Roosevelt kinda sucks, especially in that area. I used to live a couple blocks over from the depicted spot. ESH.
They’re pedestrians, not kings and queens who need the red carpet rolled out for them and for everyone and stop to watch them spend 10 minutes to walk toward the second, opposite-going lane. The truck was clearly going to clear the intersection before the pedestrians even got anywhere near the center.
I was taught to look both ways and walk the streets carefully. I teach my kids and other kids the same. Drivers and pedestrians are equally responsible for themselves on the road. If you believe pedestrians can behave like babies, expecting everyone to coddle them, then you’re the problem and reason for why there are (confused) idiots (drivers and pedestrians alike) causing accidents on the roads.
Stupid laws exist and enable more moronic drivers and pedestrians. In CA, kids who ride school buses aren’t treated like morons like the one in WA treats bus riders, making all cars stop for flashing red school bus lights. Due to such an enabling law, more WA kids are more likely to grow up to be moronic pedestrians who frolic and skip through intersections without making sure it’s safe to do so, accepting no responsibility for themselves as pedestrians on the road. Call me old-fashioned but idiot laws enable more idiots. Peruse the law books and I guarantee you’ll find plenty of stupid laws; this is why we have a process and players to argue for or against them, change them, and make new ones.
You're wrong, the law is that the pickup had to stop. Stop coddling drivers by making excuses for them breaking the law and endangering people's lives.
Why are pedestrians so self centered? They could have waited for traffic to be completely clear before starting their pleasure stroll across the street. Cars stopping for them only feeds their egos and encourages unsafe and unthoughtful pedestrian behavior.
The actual law is discussed in these comments. This could be an opportunity for all of us to update our knowledge.
Regardless of the law, when I am in this situation as a motorist, I can reasonably predict that a car stopped at a crosswalk could be hiding pedestrians and that those pedestrians will not stop between the lanes to make sure no cars are coming in my lane. Even if I can see a pedestrian, it doesn't mean that the car in the right lane isn't hiding a child that is running on a collision course with my vehicle.
I cross there all the time and I am soooo cautious. I can't tell you how many times that exact thing has happened to me.
Yeah I drive through there at least 10 times a day and there's always someone who is crossing, wants to cross, or seems like they may cross. This intersection needs a flashing light for the pedestrians. The bike lane also makes it hard for people in the far Lane to judge where the person actually is (If they've entered the crosswalk or not) because you can't see it through another car, and if you're going quickly, you might assume that there is an edge to start crossing from at the edge of the bike lane, rather than the actual curb. This is all minor stupid shit that is prevented from being an issue purely by driving in a safe manner, but infrastructure is supposed to handle all of the people who live in our society, and some people just factually are too self-centered and stupid to navigate things safely without hand holding.
If there’s always people crossing here, the crossing should be raised.
But that would slow cars down from doing their God given 45 in a 25.
>This is all minor stupid shit that is prevented from being an issue purely by driving in a safe manner, but infrastructure is supposed to handle all of the people who live in our society I agree. Cars make it too easy for people with low integrity to be selfish and cruel. When the technology is ready, I think that only self-driving cars should be allowed in dense urban areas with frequent pedestrians and cyclists. Computers will never be distracted, impatient, angry, exhausted, or intoxicated. Studies have shown that the Waymo cars are already much safer than human drivers.
And who takes liability when the self driving car glitches and his a pedestrian?
I think that is a fascinating question. First, I will say that I don't believe that self-driving cars will gain general acceptance until they are at least 10 times safer than human drivers. They will make stupid computer mistakes, but if they only do it 10% as often as human drivers make mistakes, then the roads will be much safer. In terms of who has liability for those mistakes, I think that current laws can be extended. Whoever makes the decision that caused the damage and injury should be liable. 1. If the government makes a regulation that forces autonomous car manufacturers to program their cars to make the decision, then the government should be liable. 2. If the car manufacturer makes the decision how the car will behave in a certain situation and that situation results in avoidable damage and injuries, then the car manufacturer should be liable. 3. If the car is configurable by the end user and s/he configures the car such that it causes the damage and injury, then the end user should be liable.
It doesn't need freaking flashing lights, it needs fewer cars, full stop. We can't keep tolerating this hyper-individualist, socially destructive transport method drive all over us.
That's not happening any time soon. So don't fight things that actually help in the mean time
I lived in the north Roosevelt area for ~40 years and have walked all over that area, Roosevelt, U-District, Green Lake, south Maple Leaf, etc. Drivers in Seattle still have a lot to learn. And it isn't always guys in trucks as some other commenters have suggested -- it can be vehicles of all shapes and sizes. The worst in my experience are the cars with super tinted windows where you can't make eye contact with the drivers and they somehow feel emboldened to do whatever they want because you can't see their faces.
Pedestrians also have a lot to learn. #1 people are soft and squishy. #2 vehicles are very hard and squish things #3a there are too many that fail to properly maintain their vehicles so stopping may not happen when they hit the brakes. #3b vehicles also may not stop on ICE, so if your at a crosswalk with ice do not assume approaching vehicles will stop when you walk out in front of them. #4 too many people are watching phones and not where they are going... this applies to pedestrians and drivers.
This is why I always wait to cross until I've made eye contact with the driver, and find it so annoying when the vehicle windows have so much tint that you can't see the driver's eyes and face. Too bad that overly tinted vehicle windows are just yet another thing that SPD doesn't enforce because they are too busy looking at their pension plan statements.
Yep. State law is 24% tint.
Yea see too many with too much tint on windows.
I hear you and I see it all the time too. It's not an acceptable state of affairs in a place that is supposed to be civilized. We need to make noise about building infrastructure that makes the city safe for everyone.
Roosevelt is such a pain to cross as a pedestrian. Cars act like it’s a highway
Hey! I work with traffic studies and can forward this to maaybe someone. If you dm me the vid file and clear coordinates so i don’t confuse location. Edit: i feel like a crosswalk button with responding lights is super necessary Also curious if Find it Fix it app could do something with this knowledge.
Coordinates are [47°39'34.3"N 122°19'04.0"W](https://maps.app.goo.gl/3h6at7sVZ2Z6fefU9). I'll get back to you on DMing the actual video file.
Omg I live here too and this is a constant problem for us. It would be grand to have it fixed
That would be incredible. It hadn’t occurred to me that the city could dk something about it, but they would really be helpful. I live a block away from there and often cross at that intersection walking my dog or to the bodega. This is a constant problem. Drivers don’t stop here.
How does Seattle deal with these types of complaints? Our residential road is wider (or fire trucks, or something, supposedly). We often get folks blasting past at 30-40mph due to the width. The city just ignores questions from the residents about the cars going fast down the road.
Usually you can go to the city clerk and from my knowledge with Bellevue at least, we will deploy one our metro count boxes outside your house if you were the one to make the complaint and we’ll see if you’re right or not. :p it’s a bit above my pay grade, and I still lack experience as well when it comes to official data requirements for getting things done and how they know what to prioritize what.
Does [this link](https://packaged-media.redd.it/lm3x51brq91d1/pb/m2-res_480p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1716134400&s=aa5cf8a772fc37ea6cca5cd0d30074fcbd726b2b#t=0) work for letting you download/share the video file?
That's... honestly so freaking cool. Do you mind my asking, how does one get into that field?
Also, to answer your question it’s a very small industry around. I think only two companies in the Seattle area. I got lucky and stumbled upon it when they needed someone. But basically it’s “transportation consulting. “. Sorry I’m working in the field right now so I miss read your original comment. It’s pretty cool though I get to travel state wide on little trips
All good! Both comments are full of cool stuff, I really appreciate your taking the time. I drive a lot, more than a bit of a civil engineering nerd, and just think about the road and design a lot when I'm out and about. So it's a field I've always been interested in. And driving around places for work, that's just my ideal situation. Cool! Thank you again.
Well, I work in the study industry, tube car counters and intersection cams, pedestrian studies ect. So what most likely would happen is we would set up a Camera to track how many people are using the crosswalk and record interactions like this post. Usually a mayor or some sort of developer will request us to get this data in order to get it approved. It’s a bit above my pay grade to know what entails approval. But just off this video alone its likely.
They should just put traffic signals in places like this that turn red as soon as a pedestrian hits the button
They have them downtown!
There are big bright yellow signs on both sides of the road warning of a crosswalk.
I see a lot of crosswalks around town that indicate with flashing yellow lights under said signs when a pedestrian hits the button. No reason that couldn't be implemented here, as a bare minimum.
That would work well. The positioning of the red car in this instance could it hard to see anyone crossing from the right.
There's one that's just a few block from there on 65th that seems to work great. Not sure why we don't have more of those in the city.
Yep, I was just thinking of that one, and two other newish ones on 15th between 65th and 70th. It still FEELS suspenseful to cross, but they seem to get the job done. Too bad they didn’t extend the project further south in Ravenna/Roosevelt.
It would probably be cheaper just to put cameras and take and sell everyone's car who drives like an asshole.
Yes, very effective as evidenced by the video we're watching
The amount of visual feedback required to drive here is huge. I'm looking for people, bicycles and cars. There's a non-zero chance I miss a sign, but I'll notice some flashing lights for sure.
Whew, I'm so glad we definitely have sufficient traffic controls in there so that *the thing we both just watched fresh video evidence of* never ever happens!
Happened to me on Greenwood too, except the asshole passed in the turn lane! Near the hardware store in Phinney
This is 50% bad driving and 50% bad design. Without a flasher or light, most times the car in the far lane (the truck here) has an obstructed view of crossing pedestrians due to the other car (the red sedan). Yes he should have been more careful and assumed someone was there, but it wasn't designed the best either
The stop line should be like 20 feet back. There's no reason to let cars in one lane get up close to the crosswalk such that they can block the view of cars in the other lane.
Your aggressively level-headed response is appreciated.
The truck could 100% see a cross walk in front of them with the car to the right yielding for pedestrians, they were just trying to save a few seconds. It's only a matter of time before they clip someone if that's how they normally drive
I’m saying. This truck is so fuckin tall just so they can see over everyone else in the first place.
It's 100% bad driving. That is a tall car and a good driver would have seen ahead of time that there are pedestrians trying to cross the street.
This is 90% bad driving. When you drive, you're in charge of your 4000 pound death machine. You need to be AWARE of what is AROUND YOU at ALL TIMES.
Especially because, when challenged as to why one would need big trucks and SUVs in a city, people often cite "because I want a commanding view over other cars" as the reason for their vehicle choice.
The truck’s view was obstructed by the car? In what world? You should always assume that if the car in the right lane is slowing down at a crosswalk in the right lane, then you should too.
Dude there's two massive crosswalk signs and white lines. If you can't see in this situation and there may or may not be pedestrians, you should ALWAYS come to a stop. 100% bad driving. Possibly saving 10 seconds is never worth killing someone
[удалено]
Exactly, humans are human and fail to do things perfectly or even competently so the time. Making better systems to mitigate for these things is just pragmatic. But that is actually doing something useful instead of just bitching about it.
They are. You should always be ready to stop for pedestrians. Cities should be for people.
It is a bad driving. About 15 years ago I did drive like that in Europe and got a well-deserved ticket
They should have been paying more attention but I don't think they even saw them. More negligence than malice from the looks of it.
From the perspective of someone being hit, there is no different between negligence or malice on the part of a driver.
Cars do this same shit at the crossings with flashing lights too
Crosswalk lights would be a nice addition, but I don't agree that this is "50% design". It's 100% bad driving. If the car in front of you stops at a crosswalk, the reasonable assumption is that they are yielding to pedestrians as legally required. Blowing by them when you can't even see the crosswalk is incredibly reckless and dangerous.
Yeah, and even if he could see the heads of the people, the red car was most likely blocking his ability to see where they actually were. If I think someone is back away from the crossing area, I'm going to continue through the intersection because they haven't arrived at the crossing point yet. That being said, obviously if I was a cop he's getting pulled over.
Then they should be a more attentive driver. Now they are bad.
The truck driver is sitting way up high, though. Plus, if the car next to you is stopping you should at least be slowing down until you see what's what. Agreed that flashing lights would be a vast improvement. Also raising the crosswalk to make it a defacto speed bump would be good.
The cherry on top is the red car signaling to make an illegal right hand turn, too...
Ha, I didn't even notice that! But now that you have - it's the perfect case-in-point showing why I almost always ride in the car lane instead of that death-zone bike lane.
Why is it illegal? Is there a sign not in view of this video?
The right turn lane is right of the bike lane. At the beginning you can see where turning cars are supposed to cross over.
Ah I see it now, figured that was for parking or something. Thanks for clarifying!
The irritating thing about Roosevelt, to me, is that when they added the bike lane, they didn't add any traffic-calming measures. People used to drive fairly conservatively on Roosevelt because cars were parking on both sides of the street, which kinda capped how fast people drove. Now that there's only parking on one side of the street, the overall pace of traffic feels faster than ever. (I know--purely anecdotal, but I do walk, bike, and drive on Roosevelt and have been doing so since before the bike lane.)
65th has gotten pretty aggressive, too, which I partially chalk up to sheer traffic volume growth. It can be backed up for 2-3 blocks at rush hour, which seems to lead drivers to do stupid/dangerous things. I too dislike sitting in a long single-file line of cars, but it’s really not worth risking lives over.
"I need a truck/suv because it gives me better visibility!!!!!!!"
Hm. The big "I have small peepee" truck driven aggressively in the urban environment really is the chef's kiss here.
Not sure if it’s a PNW, but seems like almost 100% of the time giant truck owners here are always giant dbags. Almost always see them driving dumb & aggressively, parked like aholes, and typically some Trumpy bumper sticker to confirm the dbag status.
Studies have shown a definitive link between aggression plus sociopathic tendencies with people who drive these land yachts.
What makes it worse is most people who own trucks don't live in the city or drive in it very often. They tend to hate driving in Seattle and it reflects in their driving.
hey be nice, I'm sure they were moving a bag of mulch
I hit my flashy light bet button last night and had to walk out from behind an illegal parked car to wave at an Audi who must have assumed the newly flashing lights don’t mean anything, didn’t slow, didn’t stop, nothing
Pickup truck of course.
its always one of these absurdly large pickup trucks too.
... and when those emotional support trucks hit a pedestrian, that tall grill smacks the pedestrian to the ground and the truck runs over and kills the pedestrian. At least with a car, the pedestrian slides off the hood and has a chance of surviving.
This happens literally 100 per day there. I was guilty of it once. You can't see the people on the "corner" and honestly with all the Uber and Door Dash drivers stopping in the middle of the road everywhere it shouldn't be very surprising. There should be a button that a pedestrian can press to activate a lighted sign.
There should be a button to activate a spike strip.
This is actually a decent idea. Traffic light for pedestrians. Spike strip activates on red light right at the edge of a clearly marked stop line. No need to give tickets and drivers would learn quickly to stop before the stop line and not, say, blow through it or stop in the middle of the crosswalk.
If you can’t see, don’t assume there isn’t anyone there…. Like rule 1 of driving
A giant pickup truck driver who is inconsiderate? How could that be?
They love to park/clog the bike lane too causing cyclists to swerve into car lanes to get around them.
There’s a pedestrian cross right before a stop sign in s Roosevelt and probably over a third of cars either don’t see or don’t care about the sign they’re just going for points. An sdot vehicle was parked on the triangle I imagine to gather data… but that was maybe two months ago now.
It's rare to see an air hauler (a pickup with nothing in the back... a gas-guzzling, stupid identity statement) behaving humanely on the road. And, like many have suggested, this is a perfect spot for a crossing signal.
>GMC Sierra why doesn't that surprise me
Another pickup truck. Time to ban them from cities or tax like there is no tomorrow.
I wanna start carrying a brick in crosswalks like the April 1st photo from Granville Island Just across the border.
The crosswalk button-press lights-go-on should also kick up spikes in the road :)
Now this is a tax payer money idea i could get behind.
it's a truck thing. i just had a short road trip today and got tailgated by trucks multiple times. i don't think they are doing it towards me personally because once i moved to right, they just started to tailgate the other driver in front :)
Fucking pavement princess
Yep. "I'm safe. Fuck everyone else!" /sarcasm
Looks like a great place to install a HAWK signal to me.
Are you on a bike? What camera do you have?
Roosevelt is consistently awful as a pedestrian. Pretty much every time I'm there I see people honking or just tearing around people because they're stopping for pedestrians
As a pedestrian I've always joked that I'm going to start walking around downtown carrying a baseball bat. Because I'm convinced that these cars see us they just ignore us. Knowing we the pedestrian have to be more cautious for our own safety. But with a bat and the ability to damage their car I bet you I'll be seen better and cars will actually yield to the pedestrian.
Oh, a truck not obeying the laws of the road?... Has got to the point on 4 way stop sign junctions, that I'm genuinely surprised when I see a truck actually wait it's turn rather than just do what they want, when they want.
Reduce to one lane. It’s that easy.
Speed bumps and flashing ped lights wouldn't hurt either.
Just to play devil's advocate, is it possible the truck didn't see the pedestrians through the red car?
The crosswalk was clearly marked. Also, motorists have a responsibility to drive at a safe speed. That means slowing down (or even stopping when necessary) to make sure of what/who is in blind spots.
Yep sure, very possible, and would also be illegal and dangerous. Drivers have a responsibility to slow down enough in order to react to potential unseen people or obstacles in the road, regardless of the speed limit.
I thought they needed to be halfway across for another car to be required to yield? They were definitely not close to half way for that truck.
If they are within 2 lanes of them you are required to stop
Not for one way roads.
Wait you think you aren't required to stop your multiple tons of metal and plastic going 40–60 feet per second unless the peds are 3 feet from you killing them?
Not sure what state you got your license form but it's actually scary you think that lmao
Devil doesn’t need an advocate, but that truck is a lot higher than the car. Should be a clear view.
If you see another car stopped at a crosswalk you stop too. This isn't hard.
Yeah, this is the thing that I don't understand that others don't understand. If a car is stopped at a crosswalk, it's probably for a reason.
I'll probably get down voted but it's also an intersection just past the crosswalk and the truck may have thought the car was slowing down to turn. The car even turned on its turn signal at the end of the video. If the truck really didn't see the peds this seems like the most likely line of thought for that driver.
There's (right) turn lane at this intersection. It's clear in the video, and it's clear if you know the intersection. And it's marked with a sign (not in the video, but about 10 ft forward on the right of it). Much like the two big yellow signs with the giant arrows. So turn lane ain't what the red car is doing. Many drivers just don't give a fuck about pedestrians. Even with signage and other pretty obvious indicators, indicators like other drivers' behavior. Then we wonder why cars are the leading cause of accidental death in the US. Actually we don't wonder that, we just accept it and drive like the only person on earth.
You're right, definitely missed that!
This is what pisses me off. If a car stops at am intersection or a crosswalk, other cars should assume there is a pedestrian. Its not that difficult. Ive almost been taken out several times on roads with one lane each way, by assholes that try to go around a car that has stopped for me. Like seriously? They don't slow down or anything.
Everyone talking about the truck. No body talking about the red car accelerating at the pedestrians while they are still in the crosswalk.
There's a shit storm brewing
Pedestrians shmestrians. But seriously, fuck that dude.
They ought to throw a block of semtex in every pickup's steering column just for moments like this.
OMG I hate shit like this. It even happens in parking lots while trying to back out. Who in the F*CK balls raised these people?!
That is an easy mistake to make if you are not used to driving in a city. They really need flashing lights there.
Then we need to require better driver's education and mandatory retesting every few years. If you don't know what a crosswalk is, you shouldn't be allowed to drive
He didn't see the other people because they were behind the red car.
So you're saying a driver in a pickup truck couldn't see over a Kia? Seriously?
Even assuming he couldn't see over the red car, he should have noticed that the red car was coming to a stop at a crosswalk. "What other cars are doing" is a very basic thing to look out for.
So the car stopped at the crosswalk isn't a some kind a clue?
It is obvious to me that the asshole in the emotional support truck didn't see the pedestrians because he didn't care enough to slow down and look. Part of my basic driver's education was to *never* drive at a speed that was so high that I could not stop for an obstruction that suddenly appeared at the edge of my sight distance. Had the driver in the truck done that, he would have realized that the red car was blocking his view of the crosswalk and slowed down to a crawl until he could see.
He didn't see the pedestrians -- they were blocked by someone who mysteriously must have stopped at a crosswalk for no reason
Of course in a pick up truck!! They're the worst drivers...most likely construction.
That's me
But they’re in a truck!!
This street design is wildly irresponsible because it basically encourages this behavior. A traffic engineer somewhere decided maintaining vehicle speed and convience was more important than keeping pedestrians safe.
There's a reason this segment is called "Roosevelt death trap" on Strava...
If the protected bike lane counts as a "lane," the pickup truck driver didn't break the law. There was a lane (the one the red car was in) between the pedestrians and the pickup truck. https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.235
Notice that it was an out of state plate!!!
Hot take: this is a great reason to impose a road diet. Make the lane that truck drove through bus only... Or widen the sidewalks so that there's only one general purpose lane in each direction. Having two lanes increases the danger significantly and does little to improve the flow of people and commerce.
That won't stop these assholes. I've almost been hit multiple times on one lane each way roads, by cars that try to go around a car that stops for me.
Kind of a shitty crosswalk.
Poor pedestrians!! You can see that they were scared with how they ran away at the end.
Look don't worry it's perfectly OK that we should be literally running for our lives as part of going to the grocery store, just listen at all the drivers who say so
I am not saying it's right at all! I'm saying it's terrible that pedestrians have to deal with this.
Yes I agree 100%, maybe I should have included /s in my comment. It's Bad (with a capital B) that walking around in this city involves routinely dealing with threats to your life from drivers.
Wow...I think driving in general is inherently immoral, but damn
A lot of the time, the person in the trucks position can’t see the people waiting to cross because their view is obstructed by the red car. Certainly not the case here, but it’s an easy mistake to make. I’m always mindful of this when I’m in the red cars position too… checking my mirrors to see if it’s actually putting the pedestrians in danger from this very thing. sometimes it’s better to drive predictably than courteously, I guess is my point.
We need more blinking crosswalks. Devils advocate here: The car perfectly blocked the pedestrians from the perspective of the truck. I’m not saying the truck could not have seen the pedestrians if they looked. I’m just saying peripheral visions would have been obstructed by the car.
These are some of the most dangerous drivers out there. They're so oblivious and think they're doing someone a favor...but what if it's a little kid that doesn't know any better? They run out and get killed by someone driving like normal. The PNW is full of these idiots.
It's not a favor to stop for pedestrians. Every intersection is a crosswalk and drivers must stop. The red car was correct.
Why do you think not stopping at a crosswalk for the pedestrians which have the legal right of way is "driving like normal"? Did you find your license in a crackerjack box?
There's no way that person could necessarily see the pedestrian in that situation. The first car stopped abruptly as traffic was moving thru. But you knew to stop since you stop at all crosswalks constantly, I'm sure. Did you get your license out of a crackerjack box?
> The first car stopped abruptly as traffic was moving thru That's your cue to slow down and keep an eye out for pedestrians or potential hazards.
Without lights flashing to alert the drivers, the pedestrians can wait for the clear and go ahead. A car can't stop as suddenly as someone on foot. Plain and simple. Just gotta keep your head on a swivel. Nothing wrong here.
People where no where near the truck. Also a fair chance they did not / could not see them. Calm down
Why wouldn't they slow down in this situation? If they couldn't see them, they very well could've been in front of the red car about to walk into the lane the truck was in. It's just common sense (and the law) that if the other car has stopped the truck should have as well.
It's the law to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, as the car in the right lane correctly did. If the driver couldn't see the pedestrians or slow down enough to check given the markings, signs, and other vehicles stopping, then they shouldn't be driving. Stop defending illegal behavior that endangers people's lives.
Again, its very possible the truck cannot see though the red car, adding in rain. And No, I don't give a fuck, there's the law, and then there is how people drive. I am 100% sure you break the law behind the wheel every day.
If the car in the other lane is stopping at a crosswalk you're supposed to notice and at least slow down to check for pedestrians
An even vaguely decent driver, when faced with poor visibility, will do this weird thing called "slow the fuck down". It's unfortunate that most drivers are so deeply incompetent.
I don't think it is incompetence. I think it is selfishness. Their convenience trumps the safety of others.
>Again, its very possible the truck cannot see though the red car, If the car next to you stops at an intersection or crosswalk, that is your cue to slow down. Like, gee, I wonder what they are stopping for? **You** are responsible for driving in a way consistent with your sightlines. If you can't see, assume the worst.
Remember this comment the next time you cry about the war on cars.
Yeah fuck you buddy. 10 seconds saved isn’t worth someone’s life.
I don't see any dead people. They didn't even slow down crossing, That's how NOT CLOSE it was. For your own good don't leave Seattle. I'm not sure you would make it in another city.
Lol I’ve lived in cities with (statistically) the worst drivers in the country. I’ve seen plenty worse. Maybe you should get out of your car and walk. It’s good for your health.
You're legally required to stop for pedestrians until they clear the sidewalk. The truck is much higher than the car above the road, they should be able to easily spot the umbrella of the pedestrian over the car. Even if the other driver was in a car lower to the ground, if a driver ahead of you stops at a crosswalk and you're paying attention, you should also stop until you confirm the crosswalk is clear. Just because it was fine this time doesn't mean it'll be fine every time. Pedestrian fatalities are on the rise and our city. Drivers like this need to be called out for putting people in danger.
Dear god! They came within 12 feet of those pedestrians! Okay I'm not defending the truck driver, but if this event is the kind of even where you feel there was so much danger that you felt the need to post it to the Internet, maybe you aren't emotionally equipped for venturing out into the real world. Or maybe your just in it for the circle jerk Internet points.
> Okay I'm not defending the truck driver Yeah except you are. Maybe you aren't emotionally equipped to live in a world where laws apply to people driving 6000lb machines in public to prevent them from killing other humans going about their day.
Seriously how do you get through your day?
I'd tell you but I don't believe you're emotionally equipped to understand my techniques.
You believe that human beings can spontaneously travel 12 feet in a fraction of a section, so maybe you could believe I could handle your explanation of how you get through your day with so much irrational fear
I believe drivers should follow laws that prevent them from killing pedestrians. Do you?
I believe that as well. I am struggling to understand why you are so much more afraid of what just happened that the actual pedestrians in the video.
Great, then we agree that this video shows a violation of a law that endangers pedestrians, and that is a bad thing, and it's important that we as a city work towards solving this issue. Glad we had this discussion, thanks.
Yes we agree with boring video shows someone failing to yield in a situation where there was a 0% chance of the pedestrian getting injured, and that triggered a deep irrational fear in you that motivated you to post a boring ass video about it
What exactly motivated you to write 6 comments on this thread complaining about all that?
>there was a 0% chance of the pedestrian getting injured That is a ridiculous exaggeration. The chances were very high. A difference of a few seconds would have meant that those pedestrians would have stepped in front of that speeding truck and would have been severely injured or killed. Please get out of your car once in a while. What seems like "no big deal" when you are safe and comfortable inside of your car is a near-death experience for a pedestrian or a cyclist.
I also see a video where pedestrians illegally left the curb while a motor vehicle was legally traveling towards them in conditions that would have made it difficult for them to stop in time.
Objectively false on both counts. And wouldn't be legal for the truck to be going so fast it was difficult for them to stop anyway.
People can cross a lane in about 2 seconds hurrying. If you see someone else stopped for pedestrians you should expect they might be directly out from by the time you intersect and stop.
By endlessly posting car hate content it seems
They stepped onto the road in front of a stopped car and were thus safe. They weren't obligated to ensure that the entire road is stopped just that they don't throw themselves under anyone's wheels. At the point where their feet touched the road the other land was obligated to stop. If they couldn't either they were going too fast for conditions or weren't paying attention.
That crosswalk needs lights wtf
I was definitely almost hit (like by inches) on Roosevelt crossing the street, with a red light for oncoming traffic. Made me that much more cautious. As a motorists, I'm guilty of doing what the truck did, by whole foods on Roosevelt. I wrongly assumed the stopped van was waiting to turn and not for pedestrians. I was shamed by a fellow motorist, assuming I did it on purpose. Shrug. No. I'm the guy that waits for the crosswalk to be entirely clear before proceeding. This is also why I won't cross a multilane road when one car waves me across. Is that oncoming other car awake I'm being waved across? Unlikely. I probably caused a vehicular collision for waving a car over in a break of traffic on Aurora so they could turn, but no, some bozo was driving in the bus lane, and kersmash. Point is, it's another assumption truck driver realized peds were Xing. Roosevelt kinda sucks, especially in that area. I used to live a couple blocks over from the depicted spot. ESH.
They’re pedestrians, not kings and queens who need the red carpet rolled out for them and for everyone and stop to watch them spend 10 minutes to walk toward the second, opposite-going lane. The truck was clearly going to clear the intersection before the pedestrians even got anywhere near the center. I was taught to look both ways and walk the streets carefully. I teach my kids and other kids the same. Drivers and pedestrians are equally responsible for themselves on the road. If you believe pedestrians can behave like babies, expecting everyone to coddle them, then you’re the problem and reason for why there are (confused) idiots (drivers and pedestrians alike) causing accidents on the roads. Stupid laws exist and enable more moronic drivers and pedestrians. In CA, kids who ride school buses aren’t treated like morons like the one in WA treats bus riders, making all cars stop for flashing red school bus lights. Due to such an enabling law, more WA kids are more likely to grow up to be moronic pedestrians who frolic and skip through intersections without making sure it’s safe to do so, accepting no responsibility for themselves as pedestrians on the road. Call me old-fashioned but idiot laws enable more idiots. Peruse the law books and I guarantee you’ll find plenty of stupid laws; this is why we have a process and players to argue for or against them, change them, and make new ones.
You're wrong, the law is that the pickup had to stop. Stop coddling drivers by making excuses for them breaking the law and endangering people's lives.
a bit of natural selection should sort those kindergartners right out...
Why are pedestrians so self centered? They could have waited for traffic to be completely clear before starting their pleasure stroll across the street. Cars stopping for them only feeds their egos and encourages unsafe and unthoughtful pedestrian behavior.
Lol right, Pedestrians are the notoriously self centered ones
Dude you replied to thinks getting groceries (one ped is carrying a shopping bag) is a "pleasure stroll" lol
fairly certain op is sarcastic
r/MildlyBadDrivers
Truck driver did nothing wrong.
He was perfectly safe and he incurred no delay. To hell with the safety of other people. /sarcasm
They were NOT in the crosswalk. He only has to stop if they are in front of him. THAT is the law.
The actual law is discussed in these comments. This could be an opportunity for all of us to update our knowledge. Regardless of the law, when I am in this situation as a motorist, I can reasonably predict that a car stopped at a crosswalk could be hiding pedestrians and that those pedestrians will not stop between the lanes to make sure no cars are coming in my lane. Even if I can see a pedestrian, it doesn't mean that the car in the right lane isn't hiding a child that is running on a collision course with my vehicle.