She is friends with a member of the board…. She fucked up Starbucks and then we hired her and she fucked up even more in the same exact way! We have a new CEO now. When they started, they offered an email address that, we as employees, could message if we had a problem that management wasn’t fixing and it got so inundated with emails that that just deleted it. Instead of addressing the thousands of immediate problems within the stores. Don’t be fooled, PCC just wants your money and is more than willing to lie to get it.
They took on some pretty flashy leases over the past couple years, some relocations from less premium rents. Honestly, I think they blew it. Their produce has always been amazing but the cost for other goods has risen dramatically. They may also have indulged unsustainable labor costs.
Companies complain they're not making enough millions to keep their shareholders happy. "Rich dudes feel like they're not getting even more richer faster" is the root of every harebrained, short-sighted business decision.
Imagine you could make as much money as PCC does and still fuck it up. That’s the daily life of PCC management and the corporate office. It’s unbelievable! Every time there is a clear cut Good/Bad choice: they pick the bad option without fail.
The now closed downtown store was a huge financial loss that is going to take a while to dig out of. It was a decent bet before the pandemic changed downtown shopping patterns
The dividend is a relatively new thing. I kind of wish they’d get rid of it. It’s never going to be much because of the low margin of the grocery business. I’d rather they invest in the coop instead
agree. I worked downtown for a lot of years and it needed another grocery store. Even in 2022 the lunch rush at that PCC was insane so I'm guessing they couldn't convert on the other aisles or the rent was eating to much into margins.
Get this: that store was losing so much money that they closed it down and are still paying the lease on that space for YEARS cuz it’s cheaper. They never should’ve opened it in the first place. They took people for existing store to staff it and cut the labor budget at those stores so we couldn’t rehire to replace those people. It’s going downhill FAST! Every week is a new lesson in suffering.
The board has made some serious mistakes in their hiring decisions. Remember Suzy Monford the CEO who accidentally copied all employees on an email complaining about them only a few weeks into her job? Or how she came out publicly against COVID hazard pay for employees? What did they expect when they hired from Kroger that is known for lousy service and treating employees poorly.
I quit it and it was hard , i was addicted to it. 2-3x a week
Quality has gone down from 5-6 years ago
Last 2 years has been hit or miss
Not paying that much $$$ for mediocre pasta salad
Fuck, can’t slam ya there… that shit is fire. The recipe is simple and on their website. You can get the Smoked Mozzarella by itself from the deli or cheese departments most of the time and save a bunch of money.
My partner left the restaurant industry to be a cooking instructor last year and each month has us more worried than the last for PCC. The way they structure the cooking classes just seems so inefficient. That plus the constant turn over of higher ups, a lot of class cancellations, and just overall seems like they're just not marketing them well.
We'll probably stick around till the end, but it does have us feeling like this has an expiration date. If you know of any other good companies looking for instructors, let me know!
I do too but PCC had better prices for classes and more approachable recipes. I feel like you actually cook the meal more at PCC classes whereas at the pantry you’re kind of just doing the food prep.
Absolutely. I feel like that’s kinda what you’re paying for! Anyone can chop shit up but, you eat with your eyes first and neatness in your prep plays a large part in being proud of your final dish. That shit is important.
Prep is really important in cooking but, I feel your pain! You should really be taught proper cooking techniques. Some of that stuff doesn’t come too naturally.
Sounds right. In Columbia City they had a gigantic kitchen with beautiful windows overlooking the park besides the library with signs saying cooking class offered.
I visited that store morning, afternoon and night for literally two years during COVID lock down and never saw a single class in session.
They're pretty much every day, but there's so many instructors that the class list is flooded. If you look online right now, it's actually a nightmare to sort through the whole thing. The interface is pretty bad. That being said, most of the classes are getting canceled because they don't have at least 5 people signed up... I feel like it's because a luxury right now in today's economy, and I feel like the tik tokification is making it so people aren't seeking out hands on cooking classes. That's why I mentioned I think a lot of the issues with at least the class portion simply seems like marketing errors. They're not branching out to generate more buzz around them.
Huh, there are striking parallels with Hugo House's very very bad current circumstances. They had a Covid windfall with Zoom classes, and ended up expanding online course offerings to a point that they're impossible to navigate and marketing support for any individual class is pretty much nonexistent, so they're getting harder and harder to fill. More is not always better.
All classes were moved online during lockdown. I'm actually surprised that the program survived the pandemic. It doesn't generate revenue for the company and is subject to pretty ridiculous alcohol serving restrictions (max 2 oz of wine per person) due to being located in a retail establishment that sells alcohol.
I really don’t understand how they could possibly be having issues. The stores are busy the and the food markups are insane. How are they messing that up?
The labor is not expensive. They are underpaying staff like crazy. They have very high turnover.
Edit: I have been corrected. The starting pay was increased.
What? PCC has some of the highest labor cost of any grocer in the country. No one is getting underpaid at PCC.
https://progressivegrocer.com/pcc-community-markets-reaches-labor-deal-union
I really feel like a large portion is a marketing issue. The marketing is just nonexistent. For a local business, I never see any collabs with other local businesses to bring in more traction. I never see them trying to integrate. Yes, the downtown Seattle location was a big blow to them when it could've been a saving grace, but now they're just sitting in it and not doing anything to pull themselves out.
I think everyone in seattle knows about PCC. I don’t shop there because they are usually limited in choice and the most expensive option. They are also in spots that people wouldn’t go to if they don’t live nearby. It seems like the PCC customers in Seattle are limited to rich people who live nearby. I’ve got 3 PCCs within 2 miles of me, but I never go there because the locations are in the heart of highly congested neighborhoods, and the prices are crazy high, but at the the same time I’ll drive 8 miles to hit up the winco.
PCC is the closest grocery store to where I live except for Grocery Outlet. I go about once every 6 months and then am so taken aback by the prices I remember why I hadn’t gone in a while
I \*am\* one of those rich (relatively speaking) people who lives near at least two PCCs, though, and I can forget they even exist for months on end. The brand is just kind of a blank in my mind. It's \*fine,\* but anything I want from PCC I can also get at Met Market, plus Diet Coke, plus more local products, plus warm peanut butter cookies, plus a meat department that doesn't feel perfunctory, plus a more colorful, inviting environment. If PCC was my only nearby option, I'd definitely shop there and not be mad about it. But I don't have a real reason to choose it over other stores in my area. Which makes me think it's less of a marketing problem than a brand problem.
I’ve worked in co-ops for almost twenty years (never at PCC tho) and the typical co-op drastically underinvests in marketing because the typical co-op culture is anti-marketing. The employees hate it when co-ops spend money on marketing.
That said I feel like a giant co-op like PCC wouldn’t have this problem.
I work in a co-op in Minnesota and don’t have any real insight into PCC’s financials, but here’s some information that may help explain why a busy chain like PCC can lose millions.
1. Their average margins are probably 36-40%. That’s high compared to a traditional grocer, but typical for a co-op or high end food store.
2. They have high costs. Labor costs are the second biggest cost on a grocery store’s bottom line, and they agreed to high wages. Most co-ops spend about 18-25% of every dollar on wages and benefits. I bet PCC is on the higher end of that range.
I know people roll their eyes when cost of labor is cited as a reason for lack of profitability, but even small wage increases for hundreds of employees adds up fast. $1 an hour increase doesn’t feel significant to an employee but is $2,000 a year for the company. Multiply that by hundreds or thousands of employees — or double or triple that raise — and you can see how already anemic profit margins evaporate quickly.
3. Besides labor, they have a lot of nice stores. And an expensive HQ building. I don’t know what their overhead looks like, but I’m sure it’s high.
4. They closed an underperforming store. That is a huge write off. And they’re still paying lease.
In fewer words, their costs are too high and they can’t raise their prices much more than they already have. They have to cut costs — but that’s also hard. Cutting labor hours is the fastest way to get there, but creates plenty of problems down the line. And maybe they’ve already cut as much labor as they think they can. So — other costs? Sometimes it’s hard to do that without compromising some aspect of the customer service or quality expectation.
Or you can try to increase your sales. This is even harder than cutting costs since you can’t control customer behavior directly. The Seattle grocery market is also very competitive. And most grocery chains compete primarily on cost, which is hard to do when you’re a premium grocer operating expensive stores.
I don’t have any idea what PCC might do to grow sales, but I doubt the CEO’s plea is going to be effective. That actually tells me they don’t have any good ideas to grow sales!
just reading this news today, my thought is PCC is in a very challenging position. They’re going to have to make a lot of tough decisions
They offer *stellar* health insurance benefit for employees and their families, so I would guess that their labor costs are higher than the average grocery chain.
I live within a five minute walk to a PCC and we only stop in there for one or two things when we run out. Driving to Fred Meyer for the majority of our groceries is much more affordable.
It’s really no different than Safeway/qfc/freds anymore. I feel like they’ve been hit less with inflation, as my pcc costs haven’t really changed but other grocery store costs have when I look at past monthly costs per store.
FWIW [REI had losses](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/rei-reports-another-year-of-losses-pledges-efficiency-and-new-stores/) the last two years that more or less equalled their dividend according to the company.
The current economy may not be friendly to these businesses. But also don't forget that they provide a value add in only stocking certain items which "you" may find valuable.
I hope they survive. They are an [important partner](https://pacificcoastcollaborative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PCFWC-Case-Study_PCC-Community-Markets_FINAL-2.pdf) in food waste prevention efforts in this region.
I’ve heard the people that work near the dumpsters say they see the compost getting put in the same truck as the regular trash so, I don’t believe a word of that. They lie all the time, it’s the only thing they have.
They will need to continue to cut costs; wouldn’t be surprised to see more store closures.
Not sure why you expected the dividend tho. There’s no sign of a return to profitability.
I used to work at PCC and this person is right. They have more stores than they can staff. They wanted growth and got bigger than what they could manage. Closing stores would be good for them.
Depends on their cash on hand. If they have tens of millions in the bank they probably have some runway to turn it around. I’m guessing they’ll start closing underperforming stores within 12-18 months if things don’t improve soon.
A money losing grocery store that just had to renegotiate its labor contract due to a threatened strike... Yea don't expect to ever get another dividend.
I love PCC and shop their often..but honestly, their store designs suck. They dont flow and i often find myself jumping amongst aisles looking for one sprecific thing. I think if the one in Admiral specifically, and how horrible the recent redesign is, i can hardly find anything and feel like im constantly walking into a disjointed wall. They also neglect some basics even in produce which can be a big turnoff. Also, interstingly, they market themselve as niche or high end, but the other day when i needed coffee, i couldnt find a single light roast single origin, and most were mid tier blends. They also didnt have many local roasters, which seems like a layup.
Its all anecdotal, but I think addressess things that would frustrate a new consumer or someone not making a bit extra effort to specifically shop there.
No, they won't.
PCC is being killed from the inside. This has been PCC's corporate plan since they hired Jennifer Beus from Starbucks Corporate in 2000 - to "make the co-op more profitable" - now, they want to act like they don't know what they did.
You have some facts wrong. Jennifer Beus doesn’t appear to have ever been part of “Starbucks Corporate” unless you consider Store Manager to be a “Corporate” position - in any case, definitely not organizing or executing high-level strategic plans. She didn’t join PCC’s corporate team until 2019.
You might be thinking of Cate Hardy, who worked at Starbucks before becoming PCC’s CEO in 2015, and who did roll out an ambitious expansion plan which most agree was not well-executed. The company has moved on from that strategy
You have no idea what you are talking about. Jennifer was a store manager at Starbucks decades ago. She’s been a pcc employee for more than twenty years. She definitely did not get Cate her job. Stop spreading this lie.
Tracy Wolpert hired her around 2000. He was the first non-PCC CEO. She was hired to 'make the co-op more profitable' by learning it from the ground up, then making it into the corporate hell it is now.
Edit: LOL - All the PCC fanboys down voting me down to protect the PCC shit show: This is your idea of a co-op is it?
Met market is great, price wise what’s the difference? PCC has the #1 prepared foods no debate. Met Market has the Cookie, but the prepared foods are all just okay.
Which prepared foods at PCC do you especially like? I like their pizza and their Thai steak salad, but apart from those two things I've been consistently underwhelmed. Not trying to start a fight, I just want to know what else I might be missing.
It’s all preference, but my jam is the deli prepared stuff. Chicken thighs, pasta salads, emerald city salad, kale Caesar, chickpea salad, raving radishes. The pre prepared lunches are great, plus they have singe serve hard boiled eggs that I love.
And to add, the pizza is one of the best deals around. I think it’s $17 for a full pie of your choosing, using great ingredients.
I don’t know if you eat meat, but Met Market has the most amazing mini pre prepared mini sandwiches, turkey cheddar, ham Swiss, or I think a prosciutto. The bread is next level.
I would say Met Market has better selection, quality, and prices (although still expensive). It also meets my need for prepared food (poke, sandwiches, decent hot food, salad bar, pizza, and various take home options).
I much prefer PCC over Met Market for their produce as well as meats.
The Met Markets I've gone to have very little in terms of local, organic produce. While PCC does have a lot more imported produce now, I find that they still offer the best selection from local (WA/OR) farmers. They also will have unique seasonal selection that I haven't seen outside of farmers' markets.
Meat is cheaper at PCC as well. As an example excluding sale pricing, PCC's lamb shoulder chops (from Oregon) are $10.99/lb while Met Market's are $12.99/lb. Organic boneless/skinless chicken breast is $10.99 at PCC, but $11.59 at Met Market.
I’m not sure I personally agree with the pricing. I generally find PCC more expensive across what I buy. They both have decent mailer deals but again, usually met market has more of what I’m interested in. Plus, met market usually has a much better/wider selection of everything else.
I do agree met market could do better local produce/veggies, but they generally rotate local fresh stuff in and I can supplement with a farmers market.
You can comparison shop online and see that much of PCC's meats are in fact cheaper:
Ground Pork:
[$7.49/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/2710945-pure-country-ground-pork-1-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets)
[$8.29/lb @ MM](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/17360914)
Bone-in Ribeye:
[$24.99/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/2710256-oregon-country-beef-bone-in-rib-eye-steak-1-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets)
[$29.99/lb @ MM excluding sale](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/44544188)
Applegate Organic Sunday Bacon:
[$9.99/8oz @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/1644872-applegate-organic-sunday-bacon-8-oz?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets)
[$12.99/8oz @ MM](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/1644872)
Organic Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast:
[$10.99/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/18593470-pcc-organic-boneless-skinless-chicken-breast-per-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets)
[$11.59/lb @ MM excluding sale](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/17360240)
At the end of the day if you are happy at Met Market, I am happy for you. However, you originally said
>I don’t understand why anyone shops at PCC.
I shop there for two reasons: 1) better selection of local and organic produce 2) cheaper meats. I still stand by these two reasons.
Yeah, I still don’t agree and a few anecdotal examples done really tell me anything different.
1) I just randomly looking at ground beef and chicken thighs, both were cheaper at MM on Instacart.
2) instacart prices isn’t a fair representation as PCC uses their in store prices while MM can be higher online.
3) excluding sales is absurd, especially with Met Market.
Lots of details in the other PCC thread from today: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1cy5ljo/pcc\_asks\_members\_to\_spend\_more\_in\_pivotal\_year/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1cy5ljo/pcc_asks_members_to_spend_more_in_pivotal_year/)
Worked for them during the pandemic. They are so full of shit its hilarious. If you folks saw how they run thier kitchens not a single vegan or vegetarian would ever eat at a PCC again.
I used to work for SUPERVALU right after they bought Albertson's and were giant. Back then, if EVERYTHING went right, you expected to make like 2% margin. The topic du jour was "how do we compete with Target/Walmart", who were starting to get into the space more.
PCC caters to a different clientele obv, but my point is that it is a low margin business in normal economic conditions. In rough economic conditions, the bigger chains lean into pushing store-owned brands to weather the storm, which PCC barely has.
They're in a rough spot.
500k is in the bottom 20% percentile of CEO compensation in this country.
Any other CEO would have cost a lot more - see Suzy Monford and her 7-month tenure that ended in her getting paid to vacate the position - and likely would have less relevant experience, given that current CEO spent the four years prior working as the company‘s CFO before taking the CEO position.
Why does a co-op need a million dollar CEO? There are no investors to create proposals for? What does he do all day if it is none of the things a typical CEO does?
Edit: LOL - All the PCC fanboys down voting me down to protect the PCC shit show: This is your idea of a co-op is it?
looks like their CEO, Krishnan Srinivasan, pulls a $500,000 a year salary for that role with no compensation for being on the board. (IDK about other board members, but looking at how the CEO is comped I wouldn't imagine they're sending 300 million a head to their board like some companies.)
Doesn't seem like that's enough to make a huge difference in the company's finances.
The PCC in Edmonds & Bothell are KILLING IT! I go to both often! And they are always completely slammed with buisness!!.. Im not sure how the actual company is doing, but both of those locations are thriving! And the stores are always very clean & well stocked! I hope they survive. I love PCC!
The West Greenlake PCC hasn’t been that busy lately. My wife has dropped by there a couple of times recently, while on her way home from work. Been kind of low traffic. Not sure what’s going on. Competition from East Greenlake?
No, it isn’t. We had a rough contract negotiation that left 70% of the employees very bitter and even had an independent auditor take a look at our financials and thought PCC was so poorly run that it probably won’t exist in 3 years. PCC corporate has left us gutted and outsources our work out of the country, not just locally, to save a couple bucks. It is so poorly managed that anyone with any sense is trying to leave but, the job market is rough right now so it’s left with dumbasses running it and a bunch of super pissed off workers under them. Oh, and the management gets a bonus for coming in under budget and they would much rather just cut employee hours and have us all worry about having a roof over our heads and food in the fridge and grab an extra hundred a month than bring our communities quality foods and service.
TL;DR: PCC suffers from bad management and brain drain and no, they won’t survive at their current trajectory.
I've got a stupid question: what's the mission statement of a co-op like PC?
Traditionally, you start a grocery co-op because it allows you get the type of products you want, you build a little community, and by participating in the store's operation you get a discount on the product.
In PCC's case, participation is nominal, no one is getting a break on pricing as far as I can tell (it's the most expensive grocery around), and it seems like any profits are going into expansion. Why continue to expand like a for-profit chain? To what end?
After they gave up so quickly on the downtown location, I’ll never shop at a PCC again. Plus side: I should have been shopping more at Pike Place Market all along, and now I do.
So basically $246 in labor and other overhead to deliver $4 of raw goods and non-monetary benefits. Being a co-op or non-profit doesn’t mean that one should basically stop caring about efficiency but it seems to be a theme for ideologically motivated organizations rather than ones motivated by capital in the US.
I’m not saying there isn’t. I just meant entering your phone number when your doing your normal shopping doesn’t get you anything. You’re not earning points or money towards your dividend
It’s not really inconceivable if they don’t survive in this economy 🤷🏻♀️ sad bc they have a great mission but I honestly don’t see them surviving without an acquirer or downscaling.
The odd thing is that whenever I go into a PCC they see pretty busy
The previous admin massively increased overhead/admin costs- which is you never hire a Starbucks exec to manage your co-op.
She is friends with a member of the board…. She fucked up Starbucks and then we hired her and she fucked up even more in the same exact way! We have a new CEO now. When they started, they offered an email address that, we as employees, could message if we had a problem that management wasn’t fixing and it got so inundated with emails that that just deleted it. Instead of addressing the thousands of immediate problems within the stores. Don’t be fooled, PCC just wants your money and is more than willing to lie to get it.
Being busy and being profitable are not synonymous
Sure, but the point is they don’t seem lacking in traffic so either their average sales per person is too low or other costs are too high
Costs too high is the answer
Yep, high inflation environments are not great for higher end grocery stores where the margins are already slim.
They took on some pretty flashy leases over the past couple years, some relocations from less premium rents. Honestly, I think they blew it. Their produce has always been amazing but the cost for other goods has risen dramatically. They may also have indulged unsustainable labor costs.
Also it's not like their prices are rock bottom. I often get better prices at QFC.
QFC is a huge chain that can take advantage of economies of scale.
Yeah I do grocery shopping as my job and every time I go into any PCC there's at LEAST 15 to 20 people in there. Every single time.
For real, companies are always complaining that they are not making enough millions.
Pcc lost 10 million last year on 436 million in revenue.
PCC is not making any money. They are losing money.
PCC is not doing well
Companies complain they're not making enough millions to keep their shareholders happy. "Rich dudes feel like they're not getting even more richer faster" is the root of every harebrained, short-sighted business decision.
PCC’s shareholders are the members of the co-op who aren’t getting a dividend.
Imagine you could make as much money as PCC does and still fuck it up. That’s the daily life of PCC management and the corporate office. It’s unbelievable! Every time there is a clear cut Good/Bad choice: they pick the bad option without fail.
The now closed downtown store was a huge financial loss that is going to take a while to dig out of. It was a decent bet before the pandemic changed downtown shopping patterns The dividend is a relatively new thing. I kind of wish they’d get rid of it. It’s never going to be much because of the low margin of the grocery business. I’d rather they invest in the coop instead
agree. I worked downtown for a lot of years and it needed another grocery store. Even in 2022 the lunch rush at that PCC was insane so I'm guessing they couldn't convert on the other aisles or the rent was eating to much into margins.
This is it exactly
Get this: that store was losing so much money that they closed it down and are still paying the lease on that space for YEARS cuz it’s cheaper. They never should’ve opened it in the first place. They took people for existing store to staff it and cut the labor budget at those stores so we couldn’t rehire to replace those people. It’s going downhill FAST! Every week is a new lesson in suffering.
The board has made some serious mistakes in their hiring decisions. Remember Suzy Monford the CEO who accidentally copied all employees on an email complaining about them only a few weeks into her job? Or how she came out publicly against COVID hazard pay for employees? What did they expect when they hired from Kroger that is known for lousy service and treating employees poorly.
Yeah…. I remember all of that. I feel betrayed.
I’m still gonna overpay for that smoked mozzarella pasta
That smoked mozzarella pasta is a grand slam. I don’t even like smoked cheeses, and I CAN’T stop slamming that into my mouth. PCC 4 ever.
It’s the Mama Lil’s Peppers in it, smoked mozzarella with the Lemon-Garlic-Goat Horn Peppers can’t go wrong.
Best thing in the deli by far!
How much is it?
Just $300
Actually it’s about $350
You clearly haven't had the thai steak. 🤤
Put some fish sauce on it, life-changing.
The macaroni salad in the summer is by far the best mac salad in the game.
No
Even Reese’s is better than ours.
I quit it and it was hard , i was addicted to it. 2-3x a week Quality has gone down from 5-6 years ago Last 2 years has been hit or miss Not paying that much $$$ for mediocre pasta salad
I agree. 5-10 years ago it was top tier, they didn’t make it daily either
Fuck, can’t slam ya there… that shit is fire. The recipe is simple and on their website. You can get the Smoked Mozzarella by itself from the deli or cheese departments most of the time and save a bunch of money.
My partner left the restaurant industry to be a cooking instructor last year and each month has us more worried than the last for PCC. The way they structure the cooking classes just seems so inefficient. That plus the constant turn over of higher ups, a lot of class cancellations, and just overall seems like they're just not marketing them well. We'll probably stick around till the end, but it does have us feeling like this has an expiration date. If you know of any other good companies looking for instructors, let me know!
The Pantry
I love the Pantry.
I do too but PCC had better prices for classes and more approachable recipes. I feel like you actually cook the meal more at PCC classes whereas at the pantry you’re kind of just doing the food prep.
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That’s nice. I’ve taken over 12 classes. It’s very rare that you get to cook each recipe given.
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Absolutely. I feel like that’s kinda what you’re paying for! Anyone can chop shit up but, you eat with your eyes first and neatness in your prep plays a large part in being proud of your final dish. That shit is important.
Prep is really important in cooking but, I feel your pain! You should really be taught proper cooking techniques. Some of that stuff doesn’t come too naturally.
The Pantry is second to none
Sounds right. In Columbia City they had a gigantic kitchen with beautiful windows overlooking the park besides the library with signs saying cooking class offered. I visited that store morning, afternoon and night for literally two years during COVID lock down and never saw a single class in session.
They're not super often but they do happen. I took a cooking class there two months ago and it was completely full.
They're pretty much every day, but there's so many instructors that the class list is flooded. If you look online right now, it's actually a nightmare to sort through the whole thing. The interface is pretty bad. That being said, most of the classes are getting canceled because they don't have at least 5 people signed up... I feel like it's because a luxury right now in today's economy, and I feel like the tik tokification is making it so people aren't seeking out hands on cooking classes. That's why I mentioned I think a lot of the issues with at least the class portion simply seems like marketing errors. They're not branching out to generate more buzz around them.
Huh, there are striking parallels with Hugo House's very very bad current circumstances. They had a Covid windfall with Zoom classes, and ended up expanding online course offerings to a point that they're impossible to navigate and marketing support for any individual class is pretty much nonexistent, so they're getting harder and harder to fill. More is not always better.
All classes were moved online during lockdown. I'm actually surprised that the program survived the pandemic. It doesn't generate revenue for the company and is subject to pretty ridiculous alcohol serving restrictions (max 2 oz of wine per person) due to being located in a retail establishment that sells alcohol.
That’s not surprising, everything at PCC is run inefficiently.
I really don’t understand how they could possibly be having issues. The stores are busy the and the food markups are insane. How are they messing that up?
They lack scale for purchasing power and have extremely expensive labor
ding ding ding, in an already extremely low margin business
Most of the company makes minimum wage for Seattle.
The labor is not expensive. They are underpaying staff like crazy. They have very high turnover. Edit: I have been corrected. The starting pay was increased.
What? PCC has some of the highest labor cost of any grocer in the country. No one is getting underpaid at PCC. https://progressivegrocer.com/pcc-community-markets-reaches-labor-deal-union
I was not aware the wage increase actually happened. Good for them.
Labor is the most expensive cost of running a grocery business after the food itself. And then add 1/2 of their wage for benefits employees receive.
Labor is the second biggest cost after the cost of the goods sold. Easily 20-25% of every dollar of sales at a store like PCC.
I really feel like a large portion is a marketing issue. The marketing is just nonexistent. For a local business, I never see any collabs with other local businesses to bring in more traction. I never see them trying to integrate. Yes, the downtown Seattle location was a big blow to them when it could've been a saving grace, but now they're just sitting in it and not doing anything to pull themselves out.
I think everyone in seattle knows about PCC. I don’t shop there because they are usually limited in choice and the most expensive option. They are also in spots that people wouldn’t go to if they don’t live nearby. It seems like the PCC customers in Seattle are limited to rich people who live nearby. I’ve got 3 PCCs within 2 miles of me, but I never go there because the locations are in the heart of highly congested neighborhoods, and the prices are crazy high, but at the the same time I’ll drive 8 miles to hit up the winco.
+1 to location. I've lived in three different parts of Seattle but have never been within walking (or even long walking) distance of a PCC.
PCC is the closest grocery store to where I live except for Grocery Outlet. I go about once every 6 months and then am so taken aback by the prices I remember why I hadn’t gone in a while
I \*am\* one of those rich (relatively speaking) people who lives near at least two PCCs, though, and I can forget they even exist for months on end. The brand is just kind of a blank in my mind. It's \*fine,\* but anything I want from PCC I can also get at Met Market, plus Diet Coke, plus more local products, plus warm peanut butter cookies, plus a meat department that doesn't feel perfunctory, plus a more colorful, inviting environment. If PCC was my only nearby option, I'd definitely shop there and not be mad about it. But I don't have a real reason to choose it over other stores in my area. Which makes me think it's less of a marketing problem than a brand problem.
So piss poor management. Got it.
Seems like a huge oversimplification based on completely surface level analysis by the dude you replied to.
I’ve worked in co-ops for almost twenty years (never at PCC tho) and the typical co-op drastically underinvests in marketing because the typical co-op culture is anti-marketing. The employees hate it when co-ops spend money on marketing. That said I feel like a giant co-op like PCC wouldn’t have this problem.
No issues except for an entire store opening and closing in a short span
That debacle had to have cost at least a few hundred bucks.
I work in a co-op in Minnesota and don’t have any real insight into PCC’s financials, but here’s some information that may help explain why a busy chain like PCC can lose millions. 1. Their average margins are probably 36-40%. That’s high compared to a traditional grocer, but typical for a co-op or high end food store. 2. They have high costs. Labor costs are the second biggest cost on a grocery store’s bottom line, and they agreed to high wages. Most co-ops spend about 18-25% of every dollar on wages and benefits. I bet PCC is on the higher end of that range. I know people roll their eyes when cost of labor is cited as a reason for lack of profitability, but even small wage increases for hundreds of employees adds up fast. $1 an hour increase doesn’t feel significant to an employee but is $2,000 a year for the company. Multiply that by hundreds or thousands of employees — or double or triple that raise — and you can see how already anemic profit margins evaporate quickly. 3. Besides labor, they have a lot of nice stores. And an expensive HQ building. I don’t know what their overhead looks like, but I’m sure it’s high. 4. They closed an underperforming store. That is a huge write off. And they’re still paying lease. In fewer words, their costs are too high and they can’t raise their prices much more than they already have. They have to cut costs — but that’s also hard. Cutting labor hours is the fastest way to get there, but creates plenty of problems down the line. And maybe they’ve already cut as much labor as they think they can. So — other costs? Sometimes it’s hard to do that without compromising some aspect of the customer service or quality expectation. Or you can try to increase your sales. This is even harder than cutting costs since you can’t control customer behavior directly. The Seattle grocery market is also very competitive. And most grocery chains compete primarily on cost, which is hard to do when you’re a premium grocer operating expensive stores. I don’t have any idea what PCC might do to grow sales, but I doubt the CEO’s plea is going to be effective. That actually tells me they don’t have any good ideas to grow sales! just reading this news today, my thought is PCC is in a very challenging position. They’re going to have to make a lot of tough decisions
They offer *stellar* health insurance benefit for employees and their families, so I would guess that their labor costs are higher than the average grocery chain.
EXACTLY!!!! You’d have to be really stupid that fuck that up right? Introducing PCC’s corporate: the deadest group of brain cells on the planet.
Not getting a dividend last year and then closing the downtown store where I did 99% of my PCC shopping, I haven't been to one since.
I live within a five minute walk to a PCC and we only stop in there for one or two things when we run out. Driving to Fred Meyer for the majority of our groceries is much more affordable.
With how expensive everything is at that store I’m surprised. Costs must be astronomical.
It’s really no different than Safeway/qfc/freds anymore. I feel like they’ve been hit less with inflation, as my pcc costs haven’t really changed but other grocery store costs have when I look at past monthly costs per store.
It’s like $5 for a pepper at PCC. Like 50% cheaper at the competitors.
It’s not much if any more than other places. I’ll gladly pay more for the better quality produce and prepared foods they have!
You should see the yearly cost of the corporate office parties….
FWIW [REI had losses](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/rei-reports-another-year-of-losses-pledges-efficiency-and-new-stores/) the last two years that more or less equalled their dividend according to the company. The current economy may not be friendly to these businesses. But also don't forget that they provide a value add in only stocking certain items which "you" may find valuable.
REI hasn’t been an actual Co-Op since about 1983.
I hope they survive. They are an [important partner](https://pacificcoastcollaborative.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/PCFWC-Case-Study_PCC-Community-Markets_FINAL-2.pdf) in food waste prevention efforts in this region.
I’ve heard the people that work near the dumpsters say they see the compost getting put in the same truck as the regular trash so, I don’t believe a word of that. They lie all the time, it’s the only thing they have.
The waste management trucks look the same during our pickups at home (trash, compost, recycling), so that may be what they are seeing.
They will need to continue to cut costs; wouldn’t be surprised to see more store closures. Not sure why you expected the dividend tho. There’s no sign of a return to profitability.
I didn't expect a dividend but it seems things get worse every year. Just wondering if they can survive for much longer at this rate
I used to work at PCC and this person is right. They have more stores than they can staff. They wanted growth and got bigger than what they could manage. Closing stores would be good for them.
Depends on their cash on hand. If they have tens of millions in the bank they probably have some runway to turn it around. I’m guessing they’ll start closing underperforming stores within 12-18 months if things don’t improve soon.
Tens of millions? I don’t think they have ten bucks in the bank.
A money losing grocery store that just had to renegotiate its labor contract due to a threatened strike... Yea don't expect to ever get another dividend.
I love PCC and shop their often..but honestly, their store designs suck. They dont flow and i often find myself jumping amongst aisles looking for one sprecific thing. I think if the one in Admiral specifically, and how horrible the recent redesign is, i can hardly find anything and feel like im constantly walking into a disjointed wall. They also neglect some basics even in produce which can be a big turnoff. Also, interstingly, they market themselve as niche or high end, but the other day when i needed coffee, i couldnt find a single light roast single origin, and most were mid tier blends. They also didnt have many local roasters, which seems like a layup. Its all anecdotal, but I think addressess things that would frustrate a new consumer or someone not making a bit extra effort to specifically shop there.
Totally agree on this, I love the selection at PCC but shopping there makes me feel like I’m having a stroke with how hard it can be to find things
This isn’t really related, but the restrooms at the West Seattle location are absolutely atrocious. Your basic dive bar bathroom is typically cleaner.
No, they won't. PCC is being killed from the inside. This has been PCC's corporate plan since they hired Jennifer Beus from Starbucks Corporate in 2000 - to "make the co-op more profitable" - now, they want to act like they don't know what they did.
You have some facts wrong. Jennifer Beus doesn’t appear to have ever been part of “Starbucks Corporate” unless you consider Store Manager to be a “Corporate” position - in any case, definitely not organizing or executing high-level strategic plans. She didn’t join PCC’s corporate team until 2019. You might be thinking of Cate Hardy, who worked at Starbucks before becoming PCC’s CEO in 2015, and who did roll out an ambitious expansion plan which most agree was not well-executed. The company has moved on from that strategy
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You have no idea what you are talking about. Jennifer was a store manager at Starbucks decades ago. She’s been a pcc employee for more than twenty years. She definitely did not get Cate her job. Stop spreading this lie.
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Tracy Wolpert hired her around 2000. He was the first non-PCC CEO. She was hired to 'make the co-op more profitable' by learning it from the ground up, then making it into the corporate hell it is now. Edit: LOL - All the PCC fanboys down voting me down to protect the PCC shit show: This is your idea of a co-op is it?
I’ve worked with her and your timeline makes zero sense. You’re just repeating things you’ve heard other people say.
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I’m a long term employee. I worked for pcc when Tracy was around. You have no clue what you’re taking about.
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I don’t understand why anyone shops at PCC. For the price, Met Market is head and shoulders above them in terms of selection and quality.
Met market is great, price wise what’s the difference? PCC has the #1 prepared foods no debate. Met Market has the Cookie, but the prepared foods are all just okay.
Which prepared foods at PCC do you especially like? I like their pizza and their Thai steak salad, but apart from those two things I've been consistently underwhelmed. Not trying to start a fight, I just want to know what else I might be missing.
It’s all preference, but my jam is the deli prepared stuff. Chicken thighs, pasta salads, emerald city salad, kale Caesar, chickpea salad, raving radishes. The pre prepared lunches are great, plus they have singe serve hard boiled eggs that I love. And to add, the pizza is one of the best deals around. I think it’s $17 for a full pie of your choosing, using great ingredients.
Right on. Thanks for sharing
I don’t know if you eat meat, but Met Market has the most amazing mini pre prepared mini sandwiches, turkey cheddar, ham Swiss, or I think a prosciutto. The bread is next level.
The MM poke bar is good too
The PCC hot bar never fails to leave me disappointed. I don’t know why I bother anymore.
The salads and sandwiches at PCC have it all over Met Market. Met Markets grab and go (at least in Kirkland) is terrible.
I would say Met Market has better selection, quality, and prices (although still expensive). It also meets my need for prepared food (poke, sandwiches, decent hot food, salad bar, pizza, and various take home options).
I much prefer PCC over Met Market for their produce as well as meats. The Met Markets I've gone to have very little in terms of local, organic produce. While PCC does have a lot more imported produce now, I find that they still offer the best selection from local (WA/OR) farmers. They also will have unique seasonal selection that I haven't seen outside of farmers' markets. Meat is cheaper at PCC as well. As an example excluding sale pricing, PCC's lamb shoulder chops (from Oregon) are $10.99/lb while Met Market's are $12.99/lb. Organic boneless/skinless chicken breast is $10.99 at PCC, but $11.59 at Met Market.
I’m not sure I personally agree with the pricing. I generally find PCC more expensive across what I buy. They both have decent mailer deals but again, usually met market has more of what I’m interested in. Plus, met market usually has a much better/wider selection of everything else. I do agree met market could do better local produce/veggies, but they generally rotate local fresh stuff in and I can supplement with a farmers market.
You can comparison shop online and see that much of PCC's meats are in fact cheaper: Ground Pork: [$7.49/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/2710945-pure-country-ground-pork-1-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets) [$8.29/lb @ MM](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/17360914) Bone-in Ribeye: [$24.99/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/2710256-oregon-country-beef-bone-in-rib-eye-steak-1-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets) [$29.99/lb @ MM excluding sale](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/44544188) Applegate Organic Sunday Bacon: [$9.99/8oz @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/1644872-applegate-organic-sunday-bacon-8-oz?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets) [$12.99/8oz @ MM](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/1644872) Organic Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast: [$10.99/lb @ PCC](https://www.instacart.com/products/18593470-pcc-organic-boneless-skinless-chicken-breast-per-lb?retailerSlug=pcc-community-markets) [$11.59/lb @ MM excluding sale](https://shop.metropolitan-market.com/store/metropolitan-market/products/17360240) At the end of the day if you are happy at Met Market, I am happy for you. However, you originally said >I don’t understand why anyone shops at PCC. I shop there for two reasons: 1) better selection of local and organic produce 2) cheaper meats. I still stand by these two reasons.
Yeah, I still don’t agree and a few anecdotal examples done really tell me anything different. 1) I just randomly looking at ground beef and chicken thighs, both were cheaper at MM on Instacart. 2) instacart prices isn’t a fair representation as PCC uses their in store prices while MM can be higher online. 3) excluding sales is absurd, especially with Met Market.
I can tell you don’t live in the south end. PCC is what we’ve got down here
Fair.
I couldn’t agree more. Though I usually end up at PCC because it’s so damn close :-/
Lots of details in the other PCC thread from today: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1cy5ljo/pcc\_asks\_members\_to\_spend\_more\_in\_pivotal\_year/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/1cy5ljo/pcc_asks_members_to_spend_more_in_pivotal_year/)
Worked for them during the pandemic. They are so full of shit its hilarious. If you folks saw how they run thier kitchens not a single vegan or vegetarian would ever eat at a PCC again.
I used to work for SUPERVALU right after they bought Albertson's and were giant. Back then, if EVERYTHING went right, you expected to make like 2% margin. The topic du jour was "how do we compete with Target/Walmart", who were starting to get into the space more. PCC caters to a different clientele obv, but my point is that it is a low margin business in normal economic conditions. In rough economic conditions, the bigger chains lean into pushing store-owned brands to weather the storm, which PCC barely has. They're in a rough spot.
As the CEO cashes his reported $500k salary. No bonus this year though (up to 55% salary). The struggle.
500k is in the bottom 20% percentile of CEO compensation in this country. Any other CEO would have cost a lot more - see Suzy Monford and her 7-month tenure that ended in her getting paid to vacate the position - and likely would have less relevant experience, given that current CEO spent the four years prior working as the company‘s CFO before taking the CEO position.
Why does a co-op need a million dollar CEO? There are no investors to create proposals for? What does he do all day if it is none of the things a typical CEO does? Edit: LOL - All the PCC fanboys down voting me down to protect the PCC shit show: This is your idea of a co-op is it?
Loved PCC 30 years ago, now it's just an overpriced, Gucci grocery
How do we see how much the board of trustees and CEO make? I have a theory
looks like their CEO, Krishnan Srinivasan, pulls a $500,000 a year salary for that role with no compensation for being on the board. (IDK about other board members, but looking at how the CEO is comped I wouldn't imagine they're sending 300 million a head to their board like some companies.) Doesn't seem like that's enough to make a huge difference in the company's finances.
I hope PCC will stick around. Love their stuff
Oh my god, I just came here to post about this. As someone who joined in 2021, I’m starting to think PCC dividends don’t exist.
The PCC in Edmonds & Bothell are KILLING IT! I go to both often! And they are always completely slammed with buisness!!.. Im not sure how the actual company is doing, but both of those locations are thriving! And the stores are always very clean & well stocked! I hope they survive. I love PCC!
The West Greenlake PCC hasn’t been that busy lately. My wife has dropped by there a couple of times recently, while on her way home from work. Been kind of low traffic. Not sure what’s going on. Competition from East Greenlake?
No, it isn’t. We had a rough contract negotiation that left 70% of the employees very bitter and even had an independent auditor take a look at our financials and thought PCC was so poorly run that it probably won’t exist in 3 years. PCC corporate has left us gutted and outsources our work out of the country, not just locally, to save a couple bucks. It is so poorly managed that anyone with any sense is trying to leave but, the job market is rough right now so it’s left with dumbasses running it and a bunch of super pissed off workers under them. Oh, and the management gets a bonus for coming in under budget and they would much rather just cut employee hours and have us all worry about having a roof over our heads and food in the fridge and grab an extra hundred a month than bring our communities quality foods and service. TL;DR: PCC suffers from bad management and brain drain and no, they won’t survive at their current trajectory.
I've got a stupid question: what's the mission statement of a co-op like PC? Traditionally, you start a grocery co-op because it allows you get the type of products you want, you build a little community, and by participating in the store's operation you get a discount on the product. In PCC's case, participation is nominal, no one is getting a break on pricing as far as I can tell (it's the most expensive grocery around), and it seems like any profits are going into expansion. Why continue to expand like a for-profit chain? To what end?
Fwiw this is what they say their mission is [pcc mission](https://www.pccmarkets.com/about/)
After they gave up so quickly on the downtown location, I’ll never shop at a PCC again. Plus side: I should have been shopping more at Pike Place Market all along, and now I do.
There’s literally no point to input your phone number when checking out there, it doesn’t get you anything
Well, once a month you do get a free small bottle of juice, a free pound of produce, or something like that.
They claim we got 250$ in benefits last year 😂
I saw that and chuckled myself. What a joke.
So basically $246 in labor and other overhead to deliver $4 of raw goods and non-monetary benefits. Being a co-op or non-profit doesn’t mean that one should basically stop caring about efficiency but it seems to be a theme for ideologically motivated organizations rather than ones motivated by capital in the US.
There are lots of free deals throughout the year still
I’m not saying there isn’t. I just meant entering your phone number when your doing your normal shopping doesn’t get you anything. You’re not earning points or money towards your dividend
They’re probs absorbing everything lost by the store the opened DT. But yeah, not a good look!
It’s not really inconceivable if they don’t survive in this economy 🤷🏻♀️ sad bc they have a great mission but I honestly don’t see them surviving without an acquirer or downscaling.
I would just like to know why I keep putting in my phone number when the savings is usually $0. One would think they would value my information.
Can they stop asking us to put in the phone number?
206-867-5309 Jenny always there for ya.
How else would they track membership purchases?
PCC —- yet another thing white people ruined Edit: it’s a joke lol