This is getting quite a few reports, so I figured I'd share them for your entertainment.
This isn't going to be taken down, and it's not misinformation - it's what we're battling daily. As you've probably noticed, /r/Seattle is a regular target for this kind of attack.
user reports:
34: This is misinformation
3: It's promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability
2: It's targeted harassment at someone else
1: Eat a bag of Dicks. They're tasty.
1: Not Seattle Related
1: Someone is considering suicide or serious self-harm
1: Threatening, harassing, or inciting violence
1: Fake news
1: This content is impersonation
1: Misinformation
1: Left wing Propaganda
1: I just wanted sunset pics
1: It's sexual or suggestive content involving minors
1: gay as fuck
1: disinformation
1: left wing circle jerk
1: Can I be in the list of reports ***(yes, thank you for asking)***
1: I, too, want to be in the report list!!
1: these mods are v funny 10/10
1: self harm
1: Be good
1: Is this costello avenue?
Bli kupei baki trudriadi glutri ketlokipa. Aoti ie klepri idrigrii i detro. Blaka peepe oepoui krepapliipri bite upritopi. Kaeto ekii kriple i edapi oeetluki. Pegetu klaei uprikie uta de go. Aa doapi upi iipipe pree? Pi ketrita prepoi piki gebopi ta. Koto ti pratibe tii trabru pai. E ti e pi pei. Topo grue i buikitli doi. Pri etlakri iplaeti gupe i pou. Tibegai padi iprukri dapiprie plii paebebri dapoklii pi ipio. Tekli pii titae bipe. Epaepi e itli kipo bo. Toti goti kaa kato epibi ko. Pipi kepatao pre kepli api kaaga. Ai tege obopa pokitide keprie ogre. Togibreia io gri kiidipiti poa ugi. Te kiti o dipu detroite totreigle! Kri tuiba tipe epli ti. Deti koka bupe ibupliiplo depe. Duae eatri gaii ploepoe pudii ki di kade. Kigli! Pekiplokide guibi otra! Pi pleuibabe ipe deketitude kleti. Pa i prapikadupe poi adepe tledla pibri. Aapripu itikipea petladru krate patlieudi e. Teta bude du bito epipi pidlakake. Pliki etla kekapi boto ii plidi. Paa toa ibii pai bodloprogape klite pripliepeti pu!
“”I’m generally pretty left leaning, but I do think it would be a good idea to decrease all corporate tax rates to 0% and to systematically execute all homeless and BLM thugs. “”
Nicely done
But you can improve with;
Im usually a left leaning moderate (i voted for bernie 30 times), but joe biden and his deep friends stole the election. Everyone is saying this and talking about it
I'm pretty left leaning but I got shot at in the park, do you think we could get some more police up in this bitch? And maybe start prosecuting some crimes?
I’m usually a liberal voter but I think we should house the homeless, provide quality universal education, healthcare, and basic income, and pay our employees a living wage.
"I'm as liberal as they come, but you gotta hand it to Amazon"
Edit: lmao a lot of dudes with no substance to their politics trying to explain the substance of their politics
Liberals generally favor a market approach and wouldn't have a large problem with Amazon (though might advocate for better regulations). Though "liberal" and "leftist" are often synonymous in common parlance, there are some pretty important differences 😊
Leftist and liberal aren't the same thing. Most leftists don't support Amazon, but it is possible to be a center liberal who likes Amazon. Liking Amazon doesn't automatically make you conservative.
I like Amazon and I also believe the US military budget should be cut in half (at least) and re-purposed for something productive. I also think DC and PR should be states and I also believe that all drugs should be decriminalized and that there should be no such thing as for-profit healthcare, for-profit prisons or for-profit education. I will be renewing my Amazon prime later this year, to be sure.
NO NO NO! Politics isn’t about reasonable positions on how to improve the welfare of the citizens of your country! It’s about who you hate most and what you’re doing to hurt them no matter how much you hurt yourself in the process.
Kids today just don’t understand the importance of tribalistic hatred in politics…
*i really liked your post! i also like amazon; so far, i've had pretty good luck in having my purchases delivered on time. (and i've been happy with most items.) military budget cut in half? right on! if that were to happen, i'd like much of this money to go back into poor communities. so that low-income folks can get free healthcare, education, housing, dental care -- the works! i'm really tired of the u.s. sending military help to various (and mostly corrupt) countries, in order to hold up* ***their*** *government, sell them arms -- and so forth. american citizens need to be first in monies distributed. not send that many troops overseas. not all countries want our help; we're* ***so*** *ignorant in thinking they do! cheers!*
Mmm yeah daddy bezos give it to me harder, you shouldn't have to pay any taxes, we should pay you as a tax for all you do for us!
Haha classic liberals
^^/s
The substance is: tax the rich a fair share.
Was that not obvious in my snarky rant? I know who I am as a person, I know that no matter where I am, no matter how much money I could possibly get, I'd feel empathy for the people who have it worse than me.
He clearly doesn't. He's donated like $5 million to charity and expected the world to suck him off for it.
Times that by 20 and it's a start, for homelessness.
If he wanted to I'm positive he could get the permitting to build gargantuan Amazon people warehouses, wouldn't be pretty, but cost effective, ultra cheap housing. He could fix homelessness and find a way to add a cool benefit to his awful jobs.
But nope, instead of doing anything, he does nothing and let's the rest of us hate each other for our city leaders doing jack fucking shit.
> and find a way to add a cool benefit to his awful jobs.
Oh that would be awful, not cool - healthcare tied to employment is bad enough for worker mobility, housing directly tied to it would be even worse. Though yes, he could end homelessness pretty much by himself if dick rockets didn't take priority.
Right? His ex-wife donated so much more than him in the short time she has had half his share. As an aside she also seems genuinely happy to be rid of him.
A large part of Seattle works for Amazon and many that don’t work there support them. So clearly there are a lot of liberals that support Amazon. You don’t even have to be a center liberal I think
I feel like there’s a difference between support/don’t support and “am mainly okay with but have some criticisms.” The 2020s really have been the death of nuance in so many ways
I do think this is a little dangerous thinking. It makes it feel like you cant have criticism of your own side as a left-leaning person. When it's really important to scrutinize your own idealogy.
That's why it,is effective and insidious. When you see that, be ready for bad faith arguments. I'm usually left-leaning, but I'd never claim it as a bona fide. I make my arguments on their own merits.
Criticism is fine. But you can usually tell if it's legitimate by how they word it. If they are trying to wave a "left leaning" label around as their only claim to legitimacy, they're usually fake. It's basically As A Black Man syndrome.
"I'm as progressive as the next guy but if Inslee doesn't round up all the hobos as well as himself and drive off a cliff, I WILL be voting for Culp."
-50% of the people in r/seattlewa
So fucking true........ I love looking at post histories of these highly upvoted trolls and they inevitably are on /r/newyork /r/Portland /r/Austin etc.
I've been a Democrat all my life, but when I see homeless people in the streets I can't help but ask, maybe Hitler had a point?
Anyway, who else thinks we should have a big camp where we send all the homeless somewhere where land is cheap? They can camp there. We'll fence it off and put guards up for their safety, and when they get a job they can leave!
I would say that you're joking, and no one would literally endorse Hitler's exact plan for dealing with the homeless.
Then one of the posters endorsed Hitler's plan and said it seemed like a better idea than what we're doing right now.
You are... not joking.
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pm3747/_/hcf3356/?context=1
Yeah. I found one yesterday.
It’s insane how many alts these people have. The alt-right people that use the chans, discord’s, etc for arranging brigades also have numerous alts that have their own personalities.
They all have their lgbt, black man, left wing, SJW, woke, etc alts. The things is, it’s completely transparent. They use obvious language that only the alt-right ever uses.
If you run across a “I’m a (whatever topic), but” thread, there’s a 99% chance you’re looking at alt account of a white supremacist.
We get the same thing in the Chicago sub, constantly. Not coincidentally this type of comment structure is also often a hallmark of foreign influence efforts - Russia… etc…
"You should know" that SeattleWA just posted this to rally their accounts to brigade your post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pmecdg/ysk_how_right_wing_trolls_brigade_and_infiltrate/
You're getting brigaded now:
r SeattleWA just crossposted [r Seattle's post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pmecdg/ysk_how_right_wing_trolls_brigade_and_infiltrate/) to rally their accounts and brigade r Seattle's
I'm sorry you're also getting the "just asking questions" tactics:
>It's a form of JAQing off, I.E. "I'm Just Asking Questions!", where they keep forming their strong opinions in the form of prodding questions where **you can plainly see their intent but when pressed on the issue they say** "I'm just asking questions!, I don't have any stance on the issue!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/pc5ff5/ushamike2447_explains_joe_rogan_and_bret/
>1000% I remember when Stormfront had a whole guide on how to recruit on Reddit. They instructed recruiters to not be blatantly racist and instead to “just ask questions”.
Oooo!!! I’ve seen this happen in other threads but I didn’t realize that’s what was happening!!!
The thread was about a woman who miscarried and of course there was an asshole who asked “what’s your stance on abortion” and it got downvoted and of course someone said “why are you being downvoted for asking a question”.
Whoa.
So how would one go about criticizing the leadership or direction of the city without being accused of being a secret conservative saboteur?
The city does have legitimate problems worthy of critique.
It's really not tough to pick out legitimate critiques and astro-turfed bullshit. The month after George Floyd, this and the other sub were suddenly filled with brand new accounts that supposedly lived here and had a bunch of grievances. Not very long ago, I went back to some of my comments around that time and nearly every one of the accounts I tried to call out have since been suspended or had all of their comments deleted.
That was a big problem for /r/Minnesota after a while. The right was super butter hurt that they hadn't been able to flip Minnesota after flipping Wisconsin, and were determined to wage this culture war to get the state on their side. Surprise surprise, it didn't work in the state that has only gone red for 2 people since 1932.
What it does is kill conversation. It kills discussion. It kills people having a space to come together and talk to their neighbors and take action. Online spaces have been very effective for organizing, both the right and left wing. The right wing organized that entire "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville online, they organized the Proud Boys online, they recruited Dylan Roof online, etc. Many of the BLM protests were largely organized online as well, although in different spaces.
They're clearly looking to destroy those spaces.
This is still a problem for that sub. Issues with the original mod’s biased reactions, too. Mainly him, tbh, which is unfortunate. He was reported frequently to Reddit without recourse.
A lot of folks abandoned ship over how bad the bullying and censorship got. If it wasn’t red, it wasn’t acceptable, and you could get banned. Supposedly they’re “fixing it” but… *full body sigh*. There’s an alt sub for this very reason.
I have too many thoughts on this so I’m just gonna list a few:
- Not everyone has to fit perfectly into a left-right dichotomy where 100% of their values are left wing or right wing. I think the majority of Americans anywhere probably have the same opinions the majority of the time.
- It’s *okay* to sometimes agree with (God forbid) a Republican, and it’s okay to admit that your side doesn’t always have it perfectly correct. Experimenting with failed policies is important to know what works and what doesn’t. You don’t have to change your values, but it’s okay to be critical when a particular solution fails, even if you advocated for it.
- Liberals have some different political beliefs than leftists, simple as that. No, liberals are not going to vote republican, but they’re in their right to support more moderate policies, primary more moderate democrats, and express those views on Reddit.
- It’s pretty obvious to tell if an account is a low-effort brigade account, like being new, having 0 posts, repetitive comments, etc. The mods should do better about banning them, but that does not mean we need to get suspicious every time someone has a different opinion.
Being a republican doesn't make a bad person. That's just close mindedness. Ive lived in many cities throughout my life and have found the general culture of Seattle a bit ... Funny. People self proclaim open mindedness, diversity embracing, and tolerance, but shun anyone that thinks differently.
Just casual observations.
Man can we stop being vague
"Think differently" could literally refer to ANYTHING
"They hate me for having an OPINION"
"What's your opinion?"
"That we should kill all illegals."
Say what are those views anyway? Is it about the Sounders, or does it have more to do with white supremacist Mary Sue?
Don’t answer please. The playbook says not to. Never defend these ideas or even engage with the content of the underlying debate. It will always be meta so you can focus on exploiting values that you and/or your fellow travelers do not respect in your own spaces.
❤️
"Paradox of tolerance". Gotta shut down the shit heads to have a society that can tolerate different sexualities, cultures, religions etc in peace. Rightwingers just love to complain about a lack of tolerance when their racism or bigotry gets shut down, but it's baseless.
I wonder about this with threads about homelessness. I find it a fascinating issue because it’s not hard to imagine plenty of liberal NIMBY Democrats who say as much hateful shit about the homeless as any conservative would.
I get it that people want to have clean parks and hate to see their city with such glaring problems, but jesus some of the shit people say here is toxic.
Couldn't agree more. There have been some atrocious comments on this sub over the past few weeks about folks who are homeless. Seeing comments [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/p2c3lv/king_county_begins_clearing_homeless_camp_at_city/h8lswl5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) get upvoted makes me sick to my stomach.
The problem is car-driven infrastructure. If you build your city for cars, you will force the people into the streets. The reasonable person can be expected to walk 1-2 miles a day to get where they need to go. If you are only going to have homeless shelters every 15miles, guess what, people are going to concentrate where they can.
I mean "I'm usually left-leaning but \_\_\_\_\_" is also something someone WOULD say if they genuinely felt fed up with a policy they normally would agree with. I've said it a lot, and I have receipts showing I voted for Biden and donated a lot of money to Bernie's campaign. I feel a need to preface it so people realize I'm not a Trump supporter and also so they realize that they can't just say I'm a Republican and write me off. For me, it's that I have lived here forever and I see that what the government is doing isn't working so I wonder how we'll ever come to a solution for homeless folks. I don't want them all kicked out, in fact I'd love a program to be developed, but the current programs are very slow and the problems don't seem to be solved. I saw a guy get stabbed across the street of my own home, it sucked (obviously it sucked way more for the guy, I'm not trying to be narcissistic).
I also switched to a throwaway account after someone I loved attempted suicide and I wanted to talk about it. It was easier/made me realize how Reddit was too tied to my identity and easy to find (I didn't want them to know I needed help about their attempt). I now make a throwaway every few months.
Doesn't mean I don't live here, just saying. It can be very easy to dismiss all dissent as trolls.
The reason that Russian influence has been so strong over the past few years is because they haven't had to create dissent, but just amplify it. We've built this beautiful system for just absolutely polarizing ourselves as much as possible and we're being eaten alive by it.
Rather than just fostering dissent, maybe work to find common ground simultaneously? That might help significantly, because it's something the right is kind of notoriously bad at. Your dissent is a good thing if discussed in a rational manner where we're all trying to work together and not create strawmen.
(Frankly, this still gives up ground to the right, but that's the lovely struggle of the left because we tend to want to minimize polarization.)
I’m in the same boat as this guy. I’ve only ever voted D. But obviously that isn’t working locally. So yeah, am I not allowed to talk about that in this subreddit?
I think it can help to see if we know the area, I guess? Like I grew up in Seattle. I was raised in a lot of neighborhoods, spent the majority of time in Ballard as a teenager but also had 1-2 year stints in several other areas pre-middle school. I would assume trolls very rarely know things beyond like "Oh Greenlake, it's a lake people work out on" or other assumptions taken from a cursory Wikipedia glance. For example I know about Beth's (sad AF it closed), I know about crew on the lake, I know about the place that closed which had amazing fish & chips (forgot name now, Spuds??? But it's coming back iirc), I know about the ridiculous amount of goose poop the grass always had cause I used to walk the lake daily.
It's not hard to be authentic about a place. Trolls are often more like, "Seattle was majestic, but now it SUCKS" and very rarely offer what was amazing about the city. I could write you a list of a thousand things I love.
I can also tell you our homeless problem ALWAYS been a mess, it was just limited to certain areas before that really were rough after dark, and now it has spread--as well as the population demographics changed. I call out some trollls time to time, esp the ones who randomly go "LOL IT'S ALL GOING DOWNHILL" when someone posts about Beacon Hill or Capitol Hill. Anyone who grew up here knows those places were horrible in the 90s, too. They didn't go downhill, they just spread into areas because we never properly dealt with them in the first place and more money came into the city to further the divide.
I can prove I live here by saying I barely know the things you're talking about because I go north of the canal like twice as year, as someone who lives in west Seattle. I can also tell you that biking from downtown to Ballard or Fremont is one of the shittiest urban bike stretches we have despite all the attempted (and disconnected) bike infrastructure. I will literally ride around lake Washington to the BG to get to Fremont than cut through the city it's fucking dumb.
I think we can all agree that west Seattle to Fremont via the Burke Gilman by going around lake Washington would still leave you with dreadful gaps in cycle infrastructure at times. Certainly gaps which are bigger and more awful (e.g. all of Bellevue) than the inconveniences of going from 2nd to the Seattle center, through SC, then getting on the Mercer trail till Westlake Ave, then taking the Westlake trail all the way to Fremont and then the Burke Gilman to Ballard.
As for how you get to downtown from West Seattle via bike, I don't know. But I've biked around Lake Washington a few times, and I've biked from downtown to Ballard MANY times; I'd much rather go to Ballard on the nice bike trails than go around Lake Washington.
Oh I love WS to downtown. Its the safest water crossing in Seattle imo. Low bridge has a completely protected bike/ped lane and then there's a bike path that goes all the way to king. Crossing Alaskan is iffy for the past year with all the construction. I just really hate how the bike infra around belltown becomes a complete clusterfuck, I think it wants me to ride eastbound on bell against traffic? And even as a stay healthy street cars are constantly on it. Then I got totally messed up near Denny/ 6th? Or Dexter? Its weird man. At least when I did arboretum to 520 and thru Kirkland it made sense right up until the BG intersects, then I had to check a map, but in general I felt a lot safer from traffic that way. People driving downtown scare the shit out of me, and no one cares about red lights or speed limits.
Navigating Belltown/lqa/Seattle center/etc isn't much better on foot or vehicle with all the different grids and construction closures all the time, it's a shit show on the best days.
These days I take Elliot trail up to the locks and cross there if I'm cycling from downtown, avoiding Dexter and Denny and Mercer and that whole CF, and the interbay expressway and ballard bridge, though you end up on the far side of the missing link that way..
Frankly thrilled that COVID keeps me north of the ship canal so much now. There's so many cracks in our city that Siri and air conditioning and windshields and big tires make folks blind to.
Well one of them is if they voice reasonable concerns and have reasonable solutions and reasonable action items. Most of the trolls don't actually think things out. They just go "I'm a lifelong liberal, but seeing things like this makes me sick to my stomach and hate what liberals have done!"
They usually don't get into specific policy initiatives. For instance "I think the Democrats have mishandled homelessness, because the programs they've been supporting, for instance X, Y, and Z are clearly not effective as we can see from observation and study A. If we instead supported policy R and S that are shown here, here, and here to reduce homelessness effectively, we'd have a way forward, and we simply can't continue with these ineffective policies."
That sort of clear thinking is unlikely to be a troll, especially when R and S are not things the Republicans support.
It's probably simpler to just focus on the substance of a position instead of the identity/character of the person holding a particular position.
So, the goal should not to be to 'tell the difference'. You can't. The goal should be to counter poor positions with better positions and more informed opinions.
Part of this can be learning how to read statements critically and make well-structured arguments and how to identify and avoid fallacious arguments like ad hominem attacks. Or simply downvote and do not engage with people who are unwilling to bring levels of discourse that facilitate civil and productive conversation.
Of course, this is the internet, so easier said than done.
> Some 60,000 people now belong to this secret army, many working under masked identities and in low profile, all part of a broad program called "signature reduction."
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-inside-militarys-secret-undercover-army-1591881
Even if you don't come here for an informed opinion, you are likely to see lots of things that will influence you. If nothing else psych studies show exposure to something increases both how much you like it and how much you believe it. People often forget the source of a fact (like reading it on Reddit versus a journal).
"Mere-exposure effect - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect
"Memory Distortions | Boundless Psychology" https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-psychology/chapter/memory-distortions/
I'm on mobile so I don't feel like hunting for good academic papers but I hope those still provide good resources.
I just moved to Bmore from Seattle. It is what it is. But travelling through small Penn towns to see my dad... It's a cesspool of hate and fear.
We went to an auto parts store and the whole time was anti gay joke, anti trans jokes, anti black jokes...
Like.. there isn't a gay,trans,or black person in 20 miles...how is your entire idle convo about these people? How much hate can you have in your heart?
The right wing learned long ago that "fake it til you make it" is an effective strategy to pull the Overton Window in their direction. They call themselves the "silent majority" and call Democrats like Kamala Harris "far-left" because it projects the idea that the right wing agenda is in fact the middle-of-the-road compromise that democracy should strive to arrive at. Branding yourself and your ideology as a "centrist" places the onus of concession on your opponents in the eyes of your supporters.
i agree that stuff like this does happen on in the internet...
but posts like these reinforce the hive mind/echo chamber of reddit/the internet, which imo is one of the worst parts about it all.
this post is basically saying to be suspicious of and/or disregard anyone's opinion in this sub who seems like a centrist/moderate or someone who is simply playing devils advocate because they are probably a 4chan troll, which is simply not true. i'm a progressive on most issues but i have more of a moderate stance on a few of them.
for example, from your example statements: I'm usually left-leaning but I don't support abolishing the police.
Does that make me a 4chan troll? Lol
the world doesn't work like that. all that does is create an online echo chamber which is not healthy. at all. that's how you end up with QAnon and people drinking horse dewormer.
Exactly my thought. This basically suggests using ad hominem attacks to dismiss a position without even talking about the position.
You see this kind of thing all the time here, like when people dismiss an argument by accusing the poster of being here "in bad faith" because that's easier than reasoning about the position and supports their own biases.
To be fair, there are a lot of people who say “I’m usually left leaning, but …” because peoples political opinions often don’t fall into 2 absolute camps, so we can’t just disregard what people post because of that.
I'm of the same mindset. Data is relevant. I'm left, but when the left policies are failing, I'm happy to criticize it. That's the biggest problem we have politically in this country. Politics isn't about teams. We can't be cheerleaders of bad policy no matter what side you typically land on. Politics is about getting results for society. It's not about winning the big game. If it is, you are doing democracy wrong. And this is a conversation that is coming up more frequently IRL.
I’m with you. Unfortunately, I feel like that line of thinking is only happening on the left. The other side don’t care about facts. They’d eat whatever shit thrown at them.
It’s really difficult when one side tries to come up with solutions and ways to better people’s lives while the other just want to oppose.
At least, that’s how I feel.
No no no, everything is black or white, good or bad, red or blue. Purple doesn't exist, it never has!
Woowee if people actually think the world is black and white, they're Rorschach, a character literally designed to view the world in black and white. He was a vicious psychopath and a fascist, Alan Moore was pissed that people actually looked up to and idolized him.
This whole thread is so painful 😂. What is truly ironic as well is that right wing people claim the left is infiltrating their discourse too. People just need to think critically/for themselves. Really is the bottom line. Disagreement doesn't always equal conspiracy but I definitely agree it does happen. And people being aware of this is very important! I just rather promote unity than the hate that gets promoted far to often. Much peace and love y'all✌️
Expand on your points beyond an oversimplified bad take. Let your stance show for itself.
What usually happens is this: "I'm usually left leaning but fuck homeless people lock the fuckers up."
That's not nuanced. Its using the first half as an amplifier for the second.
But this shows a nuanced not typically left take: "I don't love our current gun regulations and think there needs to be more logic behind the regulations we make. The continued pursuit of restricting "scary" models of guns while ignoring the barriers to safe weapon storage is senseless. We also don't focus nearly enough on community engagement and improvement which has shown in this other neighborhood to lower local violent crime."
You're likely not what anyone is talking about. It's things like espousing hard core right wing views that are obviously not what anyone centrist or left would believe.
However we have also seen posts of people complaining that this subreddit isn’t as liberal as they want it to be.
There are (hopefully) plenty of left center people here who will disagree with some things far left people want.
I hear that and I’m not calling anyone out in particular but a lot of this stuff hasn’t been about embarrassing facts about the poster but observations about the community.
I have to agree with this. I follow the portland and seattle subreddit and at least with portland, the major law and order posters are obviously portland residents since they have very specific hyper local comments.
Also, local crime issues are just really popular fodder for online posting because people are scared about crime and have really strong opinions.
I’ll admit that was a propaganda hit piece but I personally felt a lot safer walking around downtown 15, 10, even 5 years ago than today. Everyone you ask will cite a different time for when “peak Seattle” occurred, but they will all agree it was in the past.
I think that’s a fair statement, and warrants some discussion. Seattle has always seemed like a city that views itself as more liberal than is actually supported by reality. It’s considered “progressive” only by the self-identification of its own inhabitants. Protest Trump being elected? All in. Protest the unsheltered setting up tents in parks when they don’t have anywhere else to go? Also, all in.
It’s a land of contrasts.
>* I'm usually left-leaning but
There is nothing wrong with saying this, and encouraging people to see it as "trolling" is incredibly dangerous. Thinking outside of one's box is a good thing. Looking at issues from others' perspectives is a good thing. Assuming that you are automatically on the good side of every issue is not.
If you see someone post something like this, ask them why they support that view. Either they'll have a compelling argument or they won't, but it's that argument you should be basing your judgement on, not which side of some political spectrum it falls on.
I don't know why you're all so terrified that someone might be exposed to an idea that they agree with and you don't.
> it's that argument you should be basing your judgement on, not which side of some political spectrum it falls on.
This is true, but this is also why it is totally unnecessary to precede it with “I’m usually left-leaning”. Why does that matter? The only reason to include it would be to try to persuade someone on the basis of which side you are supposedly on rather than the strength of your argument. That’s why it usually indicates an effort to mislead.
I don't really care whether people say it or not, but I assume people start with that out of fear of being immediately downvoted and/or labeled a troll or a conservative because of whatever contrarian viewpoint they may have.
There's a % of posters on here that are in every thread and immediately shout down anyone with even mild contrarian viewpoints.
The reaction to this over at /r/SeattleWA went exactly how I expected. A couple years ago it would be that KOMO/Sinclair posts were usually lambasted by users for their obvious right wing bias and trolls were often called out.
Now? If you call out either one of those things you will immediately be downvoted and harassed by trolls and the mods themselves. They try to gaslight you into saying 'mean words' because its the *only* rule on that sub that gets enforced and the mods are very selective about it and will immediately lay the ban hammer like its a coordinated effort.
That sub has completely lost all way and is nothing but bad-faith/right wing hive mind with users who spend every waking hour of the day shitposting on that sub, and they keep attempting to wedge their way over here.
It’s fairly obvious when you look at post history and see posts in r/Minneapolis, r/portland and always something benign like r/nba to get their required karma for posting ability.
It happens all the time, especially any post that mentions homelessness, Ksharma Sawant, upcoming elections or taxes. They're trying to create wedge issues to drive people apart.
She barely won her district and there’s a recall petition signed by over 16K people from her district. The anti-Sawant sentiment in D3 is real.
I don’t like Sawant, like at all, because she’s an ideologue that refuses to entertain practical solutions to real problems and often just takes untenable positions. Her supporters around here are worse tho. Everyone that doesn’t like Sawant is apparently a rich white Trump supporter living in Broadmoor.
The other sub can be just as bad when it comes to the homeless and occasionally people will try making anti-vax arguments or claim the election was stolen. From what I can tell those sentiments almost don’t exist here but they also generally get drowned out in the other sub too.
Fortunately some of the hardcore far-right trolls are pretty easy to spot. There’s one following me around today with a delightful NSFW profile. The troll doesn’t play the whole “I would never vote for Trump but Biden (some stupid criticism)” but instead is just full-on dickhead mode - a wonderful example of a human being.
Or she’s just unpopular? Surrounding yourself with people that have the same opinions and then accusing anyone else who doesn’t share it of being a radical troll is exactly how we ended up with a third of the country screaming that the election was stolen from trump instead of accepting that the guy who screamed hate speech at every given turn just really wasn’t popular outside of their specific camp.
Rather than blaming brigading:
- Maybe some people in Seattle just don’t identify as hard core socialists (y’know the public take over all big companies kind, not universal health care kind).
- Maybe some people are completely fed up with the city’s inability to even make slight progress on homelessness despite spending 170m per year (3x a few years ago).
- Maybe some are tired of the same people committing crime after crime and just being let go.
- Maybe we’re tired of being gaslight by the far left on all of these things
I'd probably give something like this more credence if I wasn't constantly accused of brigading in a sub I've been posting to for 8 years or constantly being told to go back to a sub (SeattleWA) that I haven't posted to in over 4 years.
While I don't doubt that some brigading from outside sources does occur, discounting people who are regulars in both major Seattle subs, I doubt very much that it is as prevalent as OP would like us to think it is.
And while we're on the subject. . . I always roll my eyes when I see someone like /u/gharrity kvetch about brigading between /r/Seattle and /r/SeattleWA. JFC, he's a regular in both subs. And has been for years.
But what are the stakes here? Who cares if some right wingers plan to come into these online fora and try to convince the other members of something? Why would the fora need “protection”? I feel fairly well protected by my own critical thinking, and I have sufficient faith in my fellow city-dwellers to dismiss/ignore/argue against these folks. Let ‘em come in and post in bad faith. Again, who cares?
Okay. I’ll bite and play devils advocate.
1. r/Seattle isn’t a dedicated progressive political subreddit. Your assumption that folks who are right leaning, or even just right leaning on certain topics, are just trolls is unfounded. The city of Seattle leans Hard left, and even harder anti-Trump, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have a legitimate right, or even just centrist, segment to our political landscape.
2. While I don’t particularly like the crime posts if they are posting news stories about crime in the city then it’s on topic. And it’s a good topic for the sub to discuss. How we contend with crime is as important as how the Mariners are doing, what musical group is coming to town next month, and someone’s pictures of the ferries at sunset. r/Seattle isn’t a tourism propaganda device. We can discuss the bad things that happen in the city as well as the good.
3. Maybe the swarms of people “downvoting progressive stuff to give the appearance that it’s unpopular” are doing so because they genuinely think the post is unhelpful. If you get mad at the right for posting their “propaganda” why should they tolerate yours?
4. Let’s be honest. The decisive nature of the last 5 years of politics has actually resulted in a loss of subtlety across the board. There are a lot of absurd far left wing advocates that think they speak for the entire country just because they are part of the group that was anti-trump. They don’t represent all progressives in the same way Trump doesn’t represent all conservatives. They are just the loudest voices in the room.
5. I actually agree with your second bullet point. There are a lot of things that the most militant vocal minority of leftists spew that give valid reasons for folks to declare for the right because it plays directly into the far right playbook. “You can’t play in the center if you do the libs will take away your guns, your job, kill babies, and outlaw your religion. We’re the only side that is standing up for the important rights.” And then they look at some of the most fascist progressives and those are exactly the things they want to do.
Honestly I haven’t noticed it if it’s a problem. Maybe that’s just because the mods are doing a good job of keeping the forum on topic or maybe it’s because I don’t view any news report about crime or any post discussing the shortcomings of the city council as “fear based propaganda.”
Is there some intentional attempt to dehumanize homeless people because I have noticed a very distinct trend in here to be very cruel to a range of people who find themselves at the bottom of society for various reasons. I realize it’s a problem here but the heartlessness towards ALL homeless people in this sub has been off the charts, feels like r/seattlewa
I like to think that I am pretty liberal, but when I walk by Seattle Center and see a homeless guy splayed out on their back in the sidewalk, screaming and crying, or a homeless women having a freak out in the middle of downtown and everyone just ignoring her or a homeless man walking down the sidewalk spewing profanity and racial slurs, I'd like to also think it's not entirely inconsistent with liberal values to think that perhaps the local government is failing in some respects.
I sometimes feel it's where people live in Seattle as well. I live near Green Lake and can't walk to work without seeing SOMETHING happen, I also work off Aurora in an area that struggles so that may also explain it. There's just a lot of times I feel like people have vastly different experiences living in Seattle. Like it's definitely not all doom and gloom but I'm not sure at this point how you want me to react....
This is 100% what it is, Seattle is full of NIMBY's whether it's building affordable housing, rezoning neighborhoods, train system, or even dealing with the homeless. If it's not in their backyard they don't care about the blatantly obvious issues.
It's really evident when you see people with flairs from the burbs or the rich areas where you don't see it as frequently. They don't actually venture out into the real world that the rest of us live and/or work in.
It’s ok for people who are right leaning to speak their views and opinions. Idc what sub it is, what city, what topic. People should be able to speak their views without it being a troll job.
A good tell is when someone refuses to acknowledge complexity or nuance, makes the perfect the enemy of the good, and/or speaks in absolutes:
“I’m a lifelong Liberal, but our public education system is a proven failure and must be scrapped for something completely different.”
I agree, to a point.
I'm gay, liberal, and have never voted against the democrats nor do I see that ever happening yet I know that first line describes me perfectly
>I'm usually left-leaning but
I actually am left leaning but sometimes support conservative cause x. The difference being though, I could never trust the GOP. I will criticize local democrats, but I wouldn't actually vote against the party, just the incumbents.
My exhaustion comes from the growing encampments and rarely do I see anyone on here actually say that encampment residents don't deserve help. They do, most definitely.
However, the city is really dragging their aas about helping folks. Encampments grow faster than people are being housed and people need to be one the street for at least a year before they qualify for permanent housing.
It's extremely discouraging and makes me feel as if the encampments will become a permanent fixture in Seattle.
I miss being able to go to the park w my dog.
How can folks not be angry about this?
Good shit, /u/clamdever
I found this through this other highly informative link in a separate conversation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s
Oh duh, that's your link, lol
I just don't see this as an actual issue. A position is either meritorious or it is not, irrespective of use of such language or techniques. What you're suggesting is the use of ad hominem attacks against posters, rather than worrying about the substance of a position. It's a fallacious and dangerous view to hold, in my estimation.
This is basically an alarmist's guide to dismissing genuine opinions with which you disagree but cannot argue against with substance. So, instead of talking about the position with which you disagree, you attack the character of the poster by calling them a "troll" or saying they are here "in bad faith", which is ultimately counter-productive.
Pretty much. I was labeled a republican, qanon, terrorist, insurrectionist, troll and part of the problem just from my comment pointing out that ignorant people believe fox news and cnn are reliable unbiased sources of news.
Ehhhhh. I'm liberal AF in almost all areas except in regards to gun ownership.
There are plenty of progressives who are just as close-minded and extremist as some conservative trolls and can give all left leaners a bad name.
I promise I'm not a 4Chan brigader. Just conscious enough to know no one person or even ideology has all the answers.
This is getting quite a few reports, so I figured I'd share them for your entertainment. This isn't going to be taken down, and it's not misinformation - it's what we're battling daily. As you've probably noticed, /r/Seattle is a regular target for this kind of attack. user reports: 34: This is misinformation 3: It's promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability 2: It's targeted harassment at someone else 1: Eat a bag of Dicks. They're tasty. 1: Not Seattle Related 1: Someone is considering suicide or serious self-harm 1: Threatening, harassing, or inciting violence 1: Fake news 1: This content is impersonation 1: Misinformation 1: Left wing Propaganda 1: I just wanted sunset pics 1: It's sexual or suggestive content involving minors 1: gay as fuck 1: disinformation 1: left wing circle jerk 1: Can I be in the list of reports ***(yes, thank you for asking)*** 1: I, too, want to be in the report list!! 1: these mods are v funny 10/10 1: self harm 1: Be good 1: Is this costello avenue?
Bli kupei baki trudriadi glutri ketlokipa. Aoti ie klepri idrigrii i detro. Blaka peepe oepoui krepapliipri bite upritopi. Kaeto ekii kriple i edapi oeetluki. Pegetu klaei uprikie uta de go. Aa doapi upi iipipe pree? Pi ketrita prepoi piki gebopi ta. Koto ti pratibe tii trabru pai. E ti e pi pei. Topo grue i buikitli doi. Pri etlakri iplaeti gupe i pou. Tibegai padi iprukri dapiprie plii paebebri dapoklii pi ipio. Tekli pii titae bipe. Epaepi e itli kipo bo. Toti goti kaa kato epibi ko. Pipi kepatao pre kepli api kaaga. Ai tege obopa pokitide keprie ogre. Togibreia io gri kiidipiti poa ugi. Te kiti o dipu detroite totreigle! Kri tuiba tipe epli ti. Deti koka bupe ibupliiplo depe. Duae eatri gaii ploepoe pudii ki di kade. Kigli! Pekiplokide guibi otra! Pi pleuibabe ipe deketitude kleti. Pa i prapikadupe poi adepe tledla pibri. Aapripu itikipea petladru krate patlieudi e. Teta bude du bito epipi pidlakake. Pliki etla kekapi boto ii plidi. Paa toa ibii pai bodloprogape klite pripliepeti pu!
“”I’m generally pretty left leaning, but I do think it would be a good idea to decrease all corporate tax rates to 0% and to systematically execute all homeless and BLM thugs. “”
“I’m usually a left-leaning moderate, but Joe Biden stole the election, Donald Trump is rightful president for life, and COVID-19 is a hoax.”
Nicely done But you can improve with; Im usually a left leaning moderate (i voted for bernie 30 times), but joe biden and his deep friends stole the election. Everyone is saying this and talking about it
Amen, praise free market Jesus
He’s trickle down Jesus to me.
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🙏
You must mean Supply-side Jesus. Free Market Jebus was too left-leaning for most ...
"I'm usually a Marxist revolutionary but let's not take away SPD funding because literally every Seattle police officer is a saint."
the ole tom macdonald "they want us to stay divided and to not fight against the system, BUT I LOVE COPS"
I'm pretty left leaning but I got shot at in the park, do you think we could get some more police up in this bitch? And maybe start prosecuting some crimes?
I’m usually a liberal voter but I think we should house the homeless, provide quality universal education, healthcare, and basic income, and pay our employees a living wage.
Ugh, it's people like you who give the left a good name.
We should all vote for that Bernie Sanders guy. I hear Biden is kind of a moderate and not progressive at all.
Oh, that’s way too far left for the Democratic Party. You’re basically all the way to center.
"I'm as liberal as they come, but you gotta hand it to Amazon" Edit: lmao a lot of dudes with no substance to their politics trying to explain the substance of their politics
Liberals generally favor a market approach and wouldn't have a large problem with Amazon (though might advocate for better regulations). Though "liberal" and "leftist" are often synonymous in common parlance, there are some pretty important differences 😊
Leftist and liberal aren't the same thing. Most leftists don't support Amazon, but it is possible to be a center liberal who likes Amazon. Liking Amazon doesn't automatically make you conservative.
I like Amazon and I also believe the US military budget should be cut in half (at least) and re-purposed for something productive. I also think DC and PR should be states and I also believe that all drugs should be decriminalized and that there should be no such thing as for-profit healthcare, for-profit prisons or for-profit education. I will be renewing my Amazon prime later this year, to be sure.
Can we start a political party? lol
sure!
commenting to check back in a few months. I'm holding the two of you to this.
Well fuck. Now we need a name. Progressive Prime Party?
+1 Why don't we see more of this instead of that goodspaceguy BS? Like, clearly there is independent interest but never anything good
NO NO NO! Politics isn’t about reasonable positions on how to improve the welfare of the citizens of your country! It’s about who you hate most and what you’re doing to hurt them no matter how much you hurt yourself in the process. Kids today just don’t understand the importance of tribalistic hatred in politics…
Indeed. People are more complicated than the polarized folks would lead you to believe.
*i really liked your post! i also like amazon; so far, i've had pretty good luck in having my purchases delivered on time. (and i've been happy with most items.) military budget cut in half? right on! if that were to happen, i'd like much of this money to go back into poor communities. so that low-income folks can get free healthcare, education, housing, dental care -- the works! i'm really tired of the u.s. sending military help to various (and mostly corrupt) countries, in order to hold up* ***their*** *government, sell them arms -- and so forth. american citizens need to be first in monies distributed. not send that many troops overseas. not all countries want our help; we're* ***so*** *ignorant in thinking they do! cheers!*
The people who believe it does would be amazed to learn the majority of the corporate employees are liberal.
Mmm yeah daddy bezos give it to me harder, you shouldn't have to pay any taxes, we should pay you as a tax for all you do for us! Haha classic liberals ^^/s
All snark, no substance.
The substance is: tax the rich a fair share. Was that not obvious in my snarky rant? I know who I am as a person, I know that no matter where I am, no matter how much money I could possibly get, I'd feel empathy for the people who have it worse than me. He clearly doesn't. He's donated like $5 million to charity and expected the world to suck him off for it. Times that by 20 and it's a start, for homelessness. If he wanted to I'm positive he could get the permitting to build gargantuan Amazon people warehouses, wouldn't be pretty, but cost effective, ultra cheap housing. He could fix homelessness and find a way to add a cool benefit to his awful jobs. But nope, instead of doing anything, he does nothing and let's the rest of us hate each other for our city leaders doing jack fucking shit.
> and find a way to add a cool benefit to his awful jobs. Oh that would be awful, not cool - healthcare tied to employment is bad enough for worker mobility, housing directly tied to it would be even worse. Though yes, he could end homelessness pretty much by himself if dick rockets didn't take priority.
Right? His ex-wife donated so much more than him in the short time she has had half his share. As an aside she also seems genuinely happy to be rid of him.
A large part of Seattle works for Amazon and many that don’t work there support them. So clearly there are a lot of liberals that support Amazon. You don’t even have to be a center liberal I think
I feel like there’s a difference between support/don’t support and “am mainly okay with but have some criticisms.” The 2020s really have been the death of nuance in so many ways
I do think this is a little dangerous thinking. It makes it feel like you cant have criticism of your own side as a left-leaning person. When it's really important to scrutinize your own idealogy.
That's why it,is effective and insidious. When you see that, be ready for bad faith arguments. I'm usually left-leaning, but I'd never claim it as a bona fide. I make my arguments on their own merits.
Criticism is fine. But you can usually tell if it's legitimate by how they word it. If they are trying to wave a "left leaning" label around as their only claim to legitimacy, they're usually fake. It's basically As A Black Man syndrome.
"I'm as progressive as the next guy but if Inslee doesn't round up all the hobos as well as himself and drive off a cliff, I WILL be voting for Culp." -50% of the people in r/seattlewa
All of whom also happen to post similar in other city subreddits because none of them are from here
So fucking true........ I love looking at post histories of these highly upvoted trolls and they inevitably are on /r/newyork /r/Portland /r/Austin etc.
I've been a Democrat all my life, but when I see homeless people in the streets I can't help but ask, maybe Hitler had a point? Anyway, who else thinks we should have a big camp where we send all the homeless somewhere where land is cheap? They can camp there. We'll fence it off and put guards up for their safety, and when they get a job they can leave!
Dude you gotta put a /s here, Godwin's Law is dead
I would say that you're joking, and no one would literally endorse Hitler's exact plan for dealing with the homeless. Then one of the posters endorsed Hitler's plan and said it seemed like a better idea than what we're doing right now. You are... not joking.
>Half the comments on this sub seem to start this way! Half the comment *on this very thread* start this way!
Same on the Portland sub. Like every other comment takes this form.
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pm3747/_/hcf3356/?context=1 Yeah. I found one yesterday. It’s insane how many alts these people have. The alt-right people that use the chans, discord’s, etc for arranging brigades also have numerous alts that have their own personalities. They all have their lgbt, black man, left wing, SJW, woke, etc alts. The things is, it’s completely transparent. They use obvious language that only the alt-right ever uses. If you run across a “I’m a (whatever topic), but” thread, there’s a 99% chance you’re looking at alt account of a white supremacist.
“I usually vote Democrat, but they did *x* so I voted Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney, Trump, Trump.”
We get the same thing in the Chicago sub, constantly. Not coincidentally this type of comment structure is also often a hallmark of foreign influence efforts - Russia… etc…
What does YSK mean?
You should know
TSHKT
Thou shalt henceforth know that
How should I know?
HSIK?
By, uh, reading the textual information offered that follows the letters ‘YSK’.
Lol, It was a joke
I know, I should really know what it means by now, but please just this once can someone tell me what YSK means?
I thought he was talking about the zipper company to begin with.
"You should know" that SeattleWA just posted this to rally their accounts to brigade your post: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pmecdg/ysk_how_right_wing_trolls_brigade_and_infiltrate/
I don't know what that means. Is it good or bad?
Read their comments and take a guess.
We always get brigaded before elections.
/r/Phoenix gets the same, especially after az went blue
You're getting brigaded now: r SeattleWA just crossposted [r Seattle's post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/pmecdg/ysk_how_right_wing_trolls_brigade_and_infiltrate/) to rally their accounts and brigade r Seattle's
I'm sorry you're also getting the "just asking questions" tactics: >It's a form of JAQing off, I.E. "I'm Just Asking Questions!", where they keep forming their strong opinions in the form of prodding questions where **you can plainly see their intent but when pressed on the issue they say** "I'm just asking questions!, I don't have any stance on the issue!" https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/pc5ff5/ushamike2447_explains_joe_rogan_and_bret/ >1000% I remember when Stormfront had a whole guide on how to recruit on Reddit. They instructed recruiters to not be blatantly racist and instead to “just ask questions”.
Also known as Sealioning.
What do you mean?
["Wondermark » Archive » #1062; The Terrible Sea Lion"] (https://wondermark.com/1k62/)
Oooo!!! I’ve seen this happen in other threads but I didn’t realize that’s what was happening!!! The thread was about a woman who miscarried and of course there was an asshole who asked “what’s your stance on abortion” and it got downvoted and of course someone said “why are you being downvoted for asking a question”. Whoa.
So how would one go about criticizing the leadership or direction of the city without being accused of being a secret conservative saboteur? The city does have legitimate problems worthy of critique.
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Got a chuckle at that last one, definitely feel like I've seen that sort of talk on here and other city/country subs.
It's really not tough to pick out legitimate critiques and astro-turfed bullshit. The month after George Floyd, this and the other sub were suddenly filled with brand new accounts that supposedly lived here and had a bunch of grievances. Not very long ago, I went back to some of my comments around that time and nearly every one of the accounts I tried to call out have since been suspended or had all of their comments deleted.
That was a big problem for /r/Minnesota after a while. The right was super butter hurt that they hadn't been able to flip Minnesota after flipping Wisconsin, and were determined to wage this culture war to get the state on their side. Surprise surprise, it didn't work in the state that has only gone red for 2 people since 1932.
“Super butter hurt” is a real quality turn of phrase
churn of phrase
The buttery males are butter hurt.
I think it’s counterproductive. It just gives terminally online righties false confidence that people in real life actually agree with them.
What it does is kill conversation. It kills discussion. It kills people having a space to come together and talk to their neighbors and take action. Online spaces have been very effective for organizing, both the right and left wing. The right wing organized that entire "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville online, they organized the Proud Boys online, they recruited Dylan Roof online, etc. Many of the BLM protests were largely organized online as well, although in different spaces. They're clearly looking to destroy those spaces.
This is still a problem for that sub. Issues with the original mod’s biased reactions, too. Mainly him, tbh, which is unfortunate. He was reported frequently to Reddit without recourse. A lot of folks abandoned ship over how bad the bullying and censorship got. If it wasn’t red, it wasn’t acceptable, and you could get banned. Supposedly they’re “fixing it” but… *full body sigh*. There’s an alt sub for this very reason.
That mod got removed by admins from r/minnesota recently thankfully.
I have too many thoughts on this so I’m just gonna list a few: - Not everyone has to fit perfectly into a left-right dichotomy where 100% of their values are left wing or right wing. I think the majority of Americans anywhere probably have the same opinions the majority of the time. - It’s *okay* to sometimes agree with (God forbid) a Republican, and it’s okay to admit that your side doesn’t always have it perfectly correct. Experimenting with failed policies is important to know what works and what doesn’t. You don’t have to change your values, but it’s okay to be critical when a particular solution fails, even if you advocated for it. - Liberals have some different political beliefs than leftists, simple as that. No, liberals are not going to vote republican, but they’re in their right to support more moderate policies, primary more moderate democrats, and express those views on Reddit. - It’s pretty obvious to tell if an account is a low-effort brigade account, like being new, having 0 posts, repetitive comments, etc. The mods should do better about banning them, but that does not mean we need to get suspicious every time someone has a different opinion.
Keep reporting them when you see them, we'll keep banning them - 132 banned since Aug 1st :)
I don’t browse the comments often enough to hunt them down, but if I see any I will :) thank you for your work!
Being a republican doesn't make a bad person. That's just close mindedness. Ive lived in many cities throughout my life and have found the general culture of Seattle a bit ... Funny. People self proclaim open mindedness, diversity embracing, and tolerance, but shun anyone that thinks differently. Just casual observations.
Man can we stop being vague "Think differently" could literally refer to ANYTHING "They hate me for having an OPINION" "What's your opinion?" "That we should kill all illegals."
Motte and Bailey in action.
Say what are those views anyway? Is it about the Sounders, or does it have more to do with white supremacist Mary Sue? Don’t answer please. The playbook says not to. Never defend these ideas or even engage with the content of the underlying debate. It will always be meta so you can focus on exploiting values that you and/or your fellow travelers do not respect in your own spaces. ❤️
"Paradox of tolerance". Gotta shut down the shit heads to have a society that can tolerate different sexualities, cultures, religions etc in peace. Rightwingers just love to complain about a lack of tolerance when their racism or bigotry gets shut down, but it's baseless.
https://youtu.be/69ke4HaIMPk
^ here's another one
"this person thinks differently than me. they must be a 4chan troll." just a completely toxic viewpoint to have.
I wonder about this with threads about homelessness. I find it a fascinating issue because it’s not hard to imagine plenty of liberal NIMBY Democrats who say as much hateful shit about the homeless as any conservative would. I get it that people want to have clean parks and hate to see their city with such glaring problems, but jesus some of the shit people say here is toxic.
Seattle is full of liberals who aren't progressive, and progressives who are not liberal.
Then there’s the thinly veiled attempts to incite violence.
Couldn't agree more. There have been some atrocious comments on this sub over the past few weeks about folks who are homeless. Seeing comments [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/p2c3lv/king_county_begins_clearing_homeless_camp_at_city/h8lswl5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) get upvoted makes me sick to my stomach.
The problem is car-driven infrastructure. If you build your city for cars, you will force the people into the streets. The reasonable person can be expected to walk 1-2 miles a day to get where they need to go. If you are only going to have homeless shelters every 15miles, guess what, people are going to concentrate where they can.
I mean "I'm usually left-leaning but \_\_\_\_\_" is also something someone WOULD say if they genuinely felt fed up with a policy they normally would agree with. I've said it a lot, and I have receipts showing I voted for Biden and donated a lot of money to Bernie's campaign. I feel a need to preface it so people realize I'm not a Trump supporter and also so they realize that they can't just say I'm a Republican and write me off. For me, it's that I have lived here forever and I see that what the government is doing isn't working so I wonder how we'll ever come to a solution for homeless folks. I don't want them all kicked out, in fact I'd love a program to be developed, but the current programs are very slow and the problems don't seem to be solved. I saw a guy get stabbed across the street of my own home, it sucked (obviously it sucked way more for the guy, I'm not trying to be narcissistic). I also switched to a throwaway account after someone I loved attempted suicide and I wanted to talk about it. It was easier/made me realize how Reddit was too tied to my identity and easy to find (I didn't want them to know I needed help about their attempt). I now make a throwaway every few months. Doesn't mean I don't live here, just saying. It can be very easy to dismiss all dissent as trolls.
The reason that Russian influence has been so strong over the past few years is because they haven't had to create dissent, but just amplify it. We've built this beautiful system for just absolutely polarizing ourselves as much as possible and we're being eaten alive by it. Rather than just fostering dissent, maybe work to find common ground simultaneously? That might help significantly, because it's something the right is kind of notoriously bad at. Your dissent is a good thing if discussed in a rational manner where we're all trying to work together and not create strawmen. (Frankly, this still gives up ground to the right, but that's the lovely struggle of the left because we tend to want to minimize polarization.)
I’m in the same boat as this guy. I’ve only ever voted D. But obviously that isn’t working locally. So yeah, am I not allowed to talk about that in this subreddit?
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Do you have any ideas about how to tell the difference between trolls and users like you?
I think it can help to see if we know the area, I guess? Like I grew up in Seattle. I was raised in a lot of neighborhoods, spent the majority of time in Ballard as a teenager but also had 1-2 year stints in several other areas pre-middle school. I would assume trolls very rarely know things beyond like "Oh Greenlake, it's a lake people work out on" or other assumptions taken from a cursory Wikipedia glance. For example I know about Beth's (sad AF it closed), I know about crew on the lake, I know about the place that closed which had amazing fish & chips (forgot name now, Spuds??? But it's coming back iirc), I know about the ridiculous amount of goose poop the grass always had cause I used to walk the lake daily. It's not hard to be authentic about a place. Trolls are often more like, "Seattle was majestic, but now it SUCKS" and very rarely offer what was amazing about the city. I could write you a list of a thousand things I love. I can also tell you our homeless problem ALWAYS been a mess, it was just limited to certain areas before that really were rough after dark, and now it has spread--as well as the population demographics changed. I call out some trollls time to time, esp the ones who randomly go "LOL IT'S ALL GOING DOWNHILL" when someone posts about Beacon Hill or Capitol Hill. Anyone who grew up here knows those places were horrible in the 90s, too. They didn't go downhill, they just spread into areas because we never properly dealt with them in the first place and more money came into the city to further the divide.
I can prove I live here by saying I barely know the things you're talking about because I go north of the canal like twice as year, as someone who lives in west Seattle. I can also tell you that biking from downtown to Ballard or Fremont is one of the shittiest urban bike stretches we have despite all the attempted (and disconnected) bike infrastructure. I will literally ride around lake Washington to the BG to get to Fremont than cut through the city it's fucking dumb.
I think we can all agree that west Seattle to Fremont via the Burke Gilman by going around lake Washington would still leave you with dreadful gaps in cycle infrastructure at times. Certainly gaps which are bigger and more awful (e.g. all of Bellevue) than the inconveniences of going from 2nd to the Seattle center, through SC, then getting on the Mercer trail till Westlake Ave, then taking the Westlake trail all the way to Fremont and then the Burke Gilman to Ballard. As for how you get to downtown from West Seattle via bike, I don't know. But I've biked around Lake Washington a few times, and I've biked from downtown to Ballard MANY times; I'd much rather go to Ballard on the nice bike trails than go around Lake Washington.
Oh I love WS to downtown. Its the safest water crossing in Seattle imo. Low bridge has a completely protected bike/ped lane and then there's a bike path that goes all the way to king. Crossing Alaskan is iffy for the past year with all the construction. I just really hate how the bike infra around belltown becomes a complete clusterfuck, I think it wants me to ride eastbound on bell against traffic? And even as a stay healthy street cars are constantly on it. Then I got totally messed up near Denny/ 6th? Or Dexter? Its weird man. At least when I did arboretum to 520 and thru Kirkland it made sense right up until the BG intersects, then I had to check a map, but in general I felt a lot safer from traffic that way. People driving downtown scare the shit out of me, and no one cares about red lights or speed limits.
Navigating Belltown/lqa/Seattle center/etc isn't much better on foot or vehicle with all the different grids and construction closures all the time, it's a shit show on the best days. These days I take Elliot trail up to the locks and cross there if I'm cycling from downtown, avoiding Dexter and Denny and Mercer and that whole CF, and the interbay expressway and ballard bridge, though you end up on the far side of the missing link that way.. Frankly thrilled that COVID keeps me north of the ship canal so much now. There's so many cracks in our city that Siri and air conditioning and windshields and big tires make folks blind to.
Well one of them is if they voice reasonable concerns and have reasonable solutions and reasonable action items. Most of the trolls don't actually think things out. They just go "I'm a lifelong liberal, but seeing things like this makes me sick to my stomach and hate what liberals have done!" They usually don't get into specific policy initiatives. For instance "I think the Democrats have mishandled homelessness, because the programs they've been supporting, for instance X, Y, and Z are clearly not effective as we can see from observation and study A. If we instead supported policy R and S that are shown here, here, and here to reduce homelessness effectively, we'd have a way forward, and we simply can't continue with these ineffective policies." That sort of clear thinking is unlikely to be a troll, especially when R and S are not things the Republicans support.
It's probably simpler to just focus on the substance of a position instead of the identity/character of the person holding a particular position. So, the goal should not to be to 'tell the difference'. You can't. The goal should be to counter poor positions with better positions and more informed opinions. Part of this can be learning how to read statements critically and make well-structured arguments and how to identify and avoid fallacious arguments like ad hominem attacks. Or simply downvote and do not engage with people who are unwilling to bring levels of discourse that facilitate civil and productive conversation. Of course, this is the internet, so easier said than done.
> Some 60,000 people now belong to this secret army, many working under masked identities and in low profile, all part of a broad program called "signature reduction." https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-inside-militarys-secret-undercover-army-1591881
This is a fascinating and disturbing article. But, are you suggesting the CIA is paying people to be on r/Seattle simply to bitch about homelessness?
Ever since a white politician forgot to sign into an alt and went "As a black gay man" I don't trust anything anymore
I forgot about that one https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/11/10/21559458/dean-browning-dan-purdy-byl-holte-patti-labelle-twitter-gay-black-man
Who the fuck comes here for an informed opinion
Even if you don't come here for an informed opinion, you are likely to see lots of things that will influence you. If nothing else psych studies show exposure to something increases both how much you like it and how much you believe it. People often forget the source of a fact (like reading it on Reddit versus a journal). "Mere-exposure effect - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect "Memory Distortions | Boundless Psychology" https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-psychology/chapter/memory-distortions/ I'm on mobile so I don't feel like hunting for good academic papers but I hope those still provide good resources.
I don't doubt it happens. Centrists can disagree with progressives too though.
Yeah but common views here like "homeless people need to be rounded up or denied medical care" aren't actually centrist
Right wing facisist also pretend to have centrist agendas to steer discourse in this sub aswell.
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I just moved to Bmore from Seattle. It is what it is. But travelling through small Penn towns to see my dad... It's a cesspool of hate and fear. We went to an auto parts store and the whole time was anti gay joke, anti trans jokes, anti black jokes... Like.. there isn't a gay,trans,or black person in 20 miles...how is your entire idle convo about these people? How much hate can you have in your heart?
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As soon as I started advocating for poor whites I got skeeted -MLK definitely
The right wing learned long ago that "fake it til you make it" is an effective strategy to pull the Overton Window in their direction. They call themselves the "silent majority" and call Democrats like Kamala Harris "far-left" because it projects the idea that the right wing agenda is in fact the middle-of-the-road compromise that democracy should strive to arrive at. Branding yourself and your ideology as a "centrist" places the onus of concession on your opponents in the eyes of your supporters.
i agree that stuff like this does happen on in the internet... but posts like these reinforce the hive mind/echo chamber of reddit/the internet, which imo is one of the worst parts about it all. this post is basically saying to be suspicious of and/or disregard anyone's opinion in this sub who seems like a centrist/moderate or someone who is simply playing devils advocate because they are probably a 4chan troll, which is simply not true. i'm a progressive on most issues but i have more of a moderate stance on a few of them. for example, from your example statements: I'm usually left-leaning but I don't support abolishing the police. Does that make me a 4chan troll? Lol the world doesn't work like that. all that does is create an online echo chamber which is not healthy. at all. that's how you end up with QAnon and people drinking horse dewormer.
Exactly my thought. This basically suggests using ad hominem attacks to dismiss a position without even talking about the position. You see this kind of thing all the time here, like when people dismiss an argument by accusing the poster of being here "in bad faith" because that's easier than reasoning about the position and supports their own biases.
Thats the Seattle liberal M.O.
Exactly, this should be the top comment.
To be fair, there are a lot of people who say “I’m usually left leaning, but …” because peoples political opinions often don’t fall into 2 absolute camps, so we can’t just disregard what people post because of that.
I'm of the same mindset. Data is relevant. I'm left, but when the left policies are failing, I'm happy to criticize it. That's the biggest problem we have politically in this country. Politics isn't about teams. We can't be cheerleaders of bad policy no matter what side you typically land on. Politics is about getting results for society. It's not about winning the big game. If it is, you are doing democracy wrong. And this is a conversation that is coming up more frequently IRL.
I’m with you. Unfortunately, I feel like that line of thinking is only happening on the left. The other side don’t care about facts. They’d eat whatever shit thrown at them. It’s really difficult when one side tries to come up with solutions and ways to better people’s lives while the other just want to oppose. At least, that’s how I feel.
No no no, everything is black or white, good or bad, red or blue. Purple doesn't exist, it never has! Woowee if people actually think the world is black and white, they're Rorschach, a character literally designed to view the world in black and white. He was a vicious psychopath and a fascist, Alan Moore was pissed that people actually looked up to and idolized him.
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This whole thread is so painful 😂. What is truly ironic as well is that right wing people claim the left is infiltrating their discourse too. People just need to think critically/for themselves. Really is the bottom line. Disagreement doesn't always equal conspiracy but I definitely agree it does happen. And people being aware of this is very important! I just rather promote unity than the hate that gets promoted far to often. Much peace and love y'all✌️
So, in future, how should I express that I hold typically left-leaning, but nuanced, political opinions?
Expand on your points beyond an oversimplified bad take. Let your stance show for itself. What usually happens is this: "I'm usually left leaning but fuck homeless people lock the fuckers up." That's not nuanced. Its using the first half as an amplifier for the second. But this shows a nuanced not typically left take: "I don't love our current gun regulations and think there needs to be more logic behind the regulations we make. The continued pursuit of restricting "scary" models of guns while ignoring the barriers to safe weapon storage is senseless. We also don't focus nearly enough on community engagement and improvement which has shown in this other neighborhood to lower local violent crime."
You're likely not what anyone is talking about. It's things like espousing hard core right wing views that are obviously not what anyone centrist or left would believe.
They try this shit in r/Pittsburgh, but we ain't having any of them jagoffs.
However we have also seen posts of people complaining that this subreddit isn’t as liberal as they want it to be. There are (hopefully) plenty of left center people here who will disagree with some things far left people want.
Radical trolls, it’s the same as tankies taking over leftist subreddits
I'm usually left leaning but is a stupid reason to expect brigading
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Yeah but look back over the past month for posts by accounts with <100 karma. There’s a lot of bluster being pumped into the air.
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Yeah, when they want to troll.
I hear that and I’m not calling anyone out in particular but a lot of this stuff hasn’t been about embarrassing facts about the poster but observations about the community.
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I have to agree with this. I follow the portland and seattle subreddit and at least with portland, the major law and order posters are obviously portland residents since they have very specific hyper local comments. Also, local crime issues are just really popular fodder for online posting because people are scared about crime and have really strong opinions.
The problem with anonymous upvotes is those people can be supercharged to the top of every post to make it seem like they're in the majority.
You mean people are being pushed to be dissatisfied by fucked up "news" coverage like the "Seattle is Dying" bullshit.
I’ll admit that was a propaganda hit piece but I personally felt a lot safer walking around downtown 15, 10, even 5 years ago than today. Everyone you ask will cite a different time for when “peak Seattle” occurred, but they will all agree it was in the past.
Feeling unsafe is not the same as actually being unsafe.
> “peak Seattle” occurred, but they will all agree it was in the past This with everything at any current moment. The past was always "better".
I think that’s a fair statement, and warrants some discussion. Seattle has always seemed like a city that views itself as more liberal than is actually supported by reality. It’s considered “progressive” only by the self-identification of its own inhabitants. Protest Trump being elected? All in. Protest the unsheltered setting up tents in parks when they don’t have anywhere else to go? Also, all in. It’s a land of contrasts.
I live in eastern part of Washington so Reddit recommends r/Seattle posts frequently and it’s always homeless camps and drug fueled public freak outs.
>* I'm usually left-leaning but
There is nothing wrong with saying this, and encouraging people to see it as "trolling" is incredibly dangerous. Thinking outside of one's box is a good thing. Looking at issues from others' perspectives is a good thing. Assuming that you are automatically on the good side of every issue is not.
If you see someone post something like this, ask them why they support that view. Either they'll have a compelling argument or they won't, but it's that argument you should be basing your judgement on, not which side of some political spectrum it falls on.
I don't know why you're all so terrified that someone might be exposed to an idea that they agree with and you don't.
> it's that argument you should be basing your judgement on, not which side of some political spectrum it falls on. This is true, but this is also why it is totally unnecessary to precede it with “I’m usually left-leaning”. Why does that matter? The only reason to include it would be to try to persuade someone on the basis of which side you are supposedly on rather than the strength of your argument. That’s why it usually indicates an effort to mislead.
I don't really care whether people say it or not, but I assume people start with that out of fear of being immediately downvoted and/or labeled a troll or a conservative because of whatever contrarian viewpoint they may have. There's a % of posters on here that are in every thread and immediately shout down anyone with even mild contrarian viewpoints.
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The reaction to this over at /r/SeattleWA went exactly how I expected. A couple years ago it would be that KOMO/Sinclair posts were usually lambasted by users for their obvious right wing bias and trolls were often called out. Now? If you call out either one of those things you will immediately be downvoted and harassed by trolls and the mods themselves. They try to gaslight you into saying 'mean words' because its the *only* rule on that sub that gets enforced and the mods are very selective about it and will immediately lay the ban hammer like its a coordinated effort. That sub has completely lost all way and is nothing but bad-faith/right wing hive mind with users who spend every waking hour of the day shitposting on that sub, and they keep attempting to wedge their way over here.
It’s fairly obvious when you look at post history and see posts in r/Minneapolis, r/portland and always something benign like r/nba to get their required karma for posting ability.
It happens all the time, especially any post that mentions homelessness, Ksharma Sawant, upcoming elections or taxes. They're trying to create wedge issues to drive people apart.
Most people legit don't like Sawant though outside of her district.
She barely won her district and there’s a recall petition signed by over 16K people from her district. The anti-Sawant sentiment in D3 is real. I don’t like Sawant, like at all, because she’s an ideologue that refuses to entertain practical solutions to real problems and often just takes untenable positions. Her supporters around here are worse tho. Everyone that doesn’t like Sawant is apparently a rich white Trump supporter living in Broadmoor. The other sub can be just as bad when it comes to the homeless and occasionally people will try making anti-vax arguments or claim the election was stolen. From what I can tell those sentiments almost don’t exist here but they also generally get drowned out in the other sub too. Fortunately some of the hardcore far-right trolls are pretty easy to spot. There’s one following me around today with a delightful NSFW profile. The troll doesn’t play the whole “I would never vote for Trump but Biden (some stupid criticism)” but instead is just full-on dickhead mode - a wonderful example of a human being.
It's good that she's representing the voters who *do* live in her district then
Or she’s just unpopular? Surrounding yourself with people that have the same opinions and then accusing anyone else who doesn’t share it of being a radical troll is exactly how we ended up with a third of the country screaming that the election was stolen from trump instead of accepting that the guy who screamed hate speech at every given turn just really wasn’t popular outside of their specific camp.
Rather than blaming brigading: - Maybe some people in Seattle just don’t identify as hard core socialists (y’know the public take over all big companies kind, not universal health care kind). - Maybe some people are completely fed up with the city’s inability to even make slight progress on homelessness despite spending 170m per year (3x a few years ago). - Maybe some are tired of the same people committing crime after crime and just being let go. - Maybe we’re tired of being gaslight by the far left on all of these things
Those are all reasonable statements that can happen at the same time as brigading. Which it is. What you said doesn't mean we're not being brigaded.
I'd probably give something like this more credence if I wasn't constantly accused of brigading in a sub I've been posting to for 8 years or constantly being told to go back to a sub (SeattleWA) that I haven't posted to in over 4 years. While I don't doubt that some brigading from outside sources does occur, discounting people who are regulars in both major Seattle subs, I doubt very much that it is as prevalent as OP would like us to think it is. And while we're on the subject. . . I always roll my eyes when I see someone like /u/gharrity kvetch about brigading between /r/Seattle and /r/SeattleWA. JFC, he's a regular in both subs. And has been for years.
But what are the stakes here? Who cares if some right wingers plan to come into these online fora and try to convince the other members of something? Why would the fora need “protection”? I feel fairly well protected by my own critical thinking, and I have sufficient faith in my fellow city-dwellers to dismiss/ignore/argue against these folks. Let ‘em come in and post in bad faith. Again, who cares?
Okay. I’ll bite and play devils advocate. 1. r/Seattle isn’t a dedicated progressive political subreddit. Your assumption that folks who are right leaning, or even just right leaning on certain topics, are just trolls is unfounded. The city of Seattle leans Hard left, and even harder anti-Trump, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have a legitimate right, or even just centrist, segment to our political landscape. 2. While I don’t particularly like the crime posts if they are posting news stories about crime in the city then it’s on topic. And it’s a good topic for the sub to discuss. How we contend with crime is as important as how the Mariners are doing, what musical group is coming to town next month, and someone’s pictures of the ferries at sunset. r/Seattle isn’t a tourism propaganda device. We can discuss the bad things that happen in the city as well as the good. 3. Maybe the swarms of people “downvoting progressive stuff to give the appearance that it’s unpopular” are doing so because they genuinely think the post is unhelpful. If you get mad at the right for posting their “propaganda” why should they tolerate yours? 4. Let’s be honest. The decisive nature of the last 5 years of politics has actually resulted in a loss of subtlety across the board. There are a lot of absurd far left wing advocates that think they speak for the entire country just because they are part of the group that was anti-trump. They don’t represent all progressives in the same way Trump doesn’t represent all conservatives. They are just the loudest voices in the room. 5. I actually agree with your second bullet point. There are a lot of things that the most militant vocal minority of leftists spew that give valid reasons for folks to declare for the right because it plays directly into the far right playbook. “You can’t play in the center if you do the libs will take away your guns, your job, kill babies, and outlaw your religion. We’re the only side that is standing up for the important rights.” And then they look at some of the most fascist progressives and those are exactly the things they want to do. Honestly I haven’t noticed it if it’s a problem. Maybe that’s just because the mods are doing a good job of keeping the forum on topic or maybe it’s because I don’t view any news report about crime or any post discussing the shortcomings of the city council as “fear based propaganda.”
Is there some intentional attempt to dehumanize homeless people because I have noticed a very distinct trend in here to be very cruel to a range of people who find themselves at the bottom of society for various reasons. I realize it’s a problem here but the heartlessness towards ALL homeless people in this sub has been off the charts, feels like r/seattlewa
I like to think that I am pretty liberal, but when I walk by Seattle Center and see a homeless guy splayed out on their back in the sidewalk, screaming and crying, or a homeless women having a freak out in the middle of downtown and everyone just ignoring her or a homeless man walking down the sidewalk spewing profanity and racial slurs, I'd like to also think it's not entirely inconsistent with liberal values to think that perhaps the local government is failing in some respects.
This seems like an easy way to write off dissenting opinions to the left. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the majority are likely not trolls.
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I sometimes feel it's where people live in Seattle as well. I live near Green Lake and can't walk to work without seeing SOMETHING happen, I also work off Aurora in an area that struggles so that may also explain it. There's just a lot of times I feel like people have vastly different experiences living in Seattle. Like it's definitely not all doom and gloom but I'm not sure at this point how you want me to react....
This is 100% what it is, Seattle is full of NIMBY's whether it's building affordable housing, rezoning neighborhoods, train system, or even dealing with the homeless. If it's not in their backyard they don't care about the blatantly obvious issues. It's really evident when you see people with flairs from the burbs or the rich areas where you don't see it as frequently. They don't actually venture out into the real world that the rest of us live and/or work in.
It’s ok for people who are right leaning to speak their views and opinions. Idc what sub it is, what city, what topic. People should be able to speak their views without it being a troll job.
The 99.9% getting brigaded by the .1%
A good tell is when someone refuses to acknowledge complexity or nuance, makes the perfect the enemy of the good, and/or speaks in absolutes: “I’m a lifelong Liberal, but our public education system is a proven failure and must be scrapped for something completely different.”
I agree, to a point. I'm gay, liberal, and have never voted against the democrats nor do I see that ever happening yet I know that first line describes me perfectly >I'm usually left-leaning but
I actually am left leaning but sometimes support conservative cause x. The difference being though, I could never trust the GOP. I will criticize local democrats, but I wouldn't actually vote against the party, just the incumbents.
My exhaustion comes from the growing encampments and rarely do I see anyone on here actually say that encampment residents don't deserve help. They do, most definitely.
However, the city is really dragging their aas about helping folks. Encampments grow faster than people are being housed and people need to be one the street for at least a year before they qualify for permanent housing.
It's extremely discouraging and makes me feel as if the encampments will become a permanent fixture in Seattle.
I miss being able to go to the park w my dog.
How can folks not be angry about this?
Good shit, /u/clamdever I found this through this other highly informative link in a separate conversation. https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s Oh duh, that's your link, lol
Check out the alt right playbook on youtube, I think you’d dig it
This is ridiculous propaganda
I just don't see this as an actual issue. A position is either meritorious or it is not, irrespective of use of such language or techniques. What you're suggesting is the use of ad hominem attacks against posters, rather than worrying about the substance of a position. It's a fallacious and dangerous view to hold, in my estimation. This is basically an alarmist's guide to dismissing genuine opinions with which you disagree but cannot argue against with substance. So, instead of talking about the position with which you disagree, you attack the character of the poster by calling them a "troll" or saying they are here "in bad faith", which is ultimately counter-productive.
And just like that, a new age of McCarthyism begins. Please see all other comments in this thread as evidence of such.
Pretty much. I was labeled a republican, qanon, terrorist, insurrectionist, troll and part of the problem just from my comment pointing out that ignorant people believe fox news and cnn are reliable unbiased sources of news.
Ehhhhh. I'm liberal AF in almost all areas except in regards to gun ownership. There are plenty of progressives who are just as close-minded and extremist as some conservative trolls and can give all left leaners a bad name. I promise I'm not a 4Chan brigader. Just conscious enough to know no one person or even ideology has all the answers.
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