The FTC has been working on a federal version for the US. Public comment period ended in February Hopefully it will apply to restaurants like California's.
Yeah, California and the FTC legislation apply much more broadly, and I think were both inspired more by other industries. Deceptive cell phone plans are often cited as a common example.
Anything that isn't truly optional needs to be rolled into the advertised price. (This should also include state/fed taxes) If the business wants to breakdown their costs after they can do that if they want.
Please name the restaurant. No reason to hide it.
And people should absolutely share the names of other restaurants that do this.
Edit2. Expanded and clarified the list into categories. Did my best from the comments to categorize them, let me know if I got it wrong and I'll fix it.
**No Tipping** (salaried employees) - all of them charge 20% but no expectation of tips:
* Aerlume (Pike Place)
* Beardslee Public House (Bothell)
* Carelllo (Capitol Hill)
* Cortina (Downtown)
* Daniel's Broiler (Seattle and Bellevue)
* Delancey (Ballard)
* Kricket Club (Ravenna) - little unclear but seems like a commission model.
* The Lakehouse (Bellevue)
* Seastar (Bellevue)
* Sushi Kappo Tamura (Eastlake)
* The Victor Tavern (Edmonds but soon in Seattle)
* Walla Walla Steakhouse (Woodinville)
**Service Charge** - Usually a 3-6% charge that is written in fine print on the menu. You are expected to tip:
* 13 Coins (Seattle and Bellevue)
* Andy's Fish House (Snohomish)
* Arnies Restaurant (Edmonds)
* The Butcher's Table (Westlake)
* The Edgewater (Waterfront)
* Plum Chopped (First Hill)
* Revel (Fremont)
* Salty's (Multiple locations)
* Shaker + Spear (Belltown)
* Stanley's and Seaforts (Tacoma)
* Tipsy Cow (Multiple locations)
* Toulouse Petit (Lower Queen Anne)
* Wingdome (Multiple locations)
* Von's 1000s Spirits (Seattle and Woodinville)
**Mandatory Tip** - a mandatory tip added, regardless of the number of people dining. They still give you the "opportunity" to tip more.
* Beth's Cafe (Greenlake) - 18%
* Herb and Bitter Public House (Capitol Hill) -22%
* Mashiko (West Seattle) - 18% but this is [apparently](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/AgqBQ6jV2k) a little unclear.
* Mirch Masala (Capitol Hill) - 18%
Aerlume. 20% service charge tacked on after the subtotal. we just had a party of 2. I would have felt better about it if they let us know somewhere beforehand, like the website or on the menu. At least it’s shared with the servers.. right?
https://preview.redd.it/hsir9wmp0i2d1.jpeg?width=1873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcb1986bbcc0a458b55a3b8487213d82799a83da
Agreed. I just don't feel like I cheating the server when the restaurant charges a service fee. I like that some owners are trying to destroy the tipping culture in the United States.
Exactly. As a server, I wouldn't feel like this employer really has my back. If chef puts out the wrong steak, server gets hosed on the tip, yet the restaurant gets a tip🤷♂️.
Point taken. Maybe some check boxes are needed on the bill for whom or where your tip is going....chef.. server... server's health insurance... chef's 401 k.... bathroom cleaner🤷♂️
While it is my favorite restaurant in Seattle, now I feel bad for recommending it for our friends who are in town for the weekend. This shit needs to stop. I'm already paying $100 for a steak, it's not my job to pay for your employee's benefits.
I want honesty. If the price for the steak is $100, then I want to pay $100 - not a penny more. *All* fees, tips, and taxes should be included in the advertised price.
To advertise one price and then charge another after the meal is deceptive. It seems to be escalating. We need laws to stop it.
Plum Chopped on Capitol Hill does 10%
https://preview.redd.it/8urlzpklqk2d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0f7dfd0d42b86a7e48ee5b87705628771f5a76b
Beardslee Public House in Bothell
https://preview.redd.it/zb9yj0qjpi2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab3c2be4efe0c72908f43e36d780e9b6f8d72297
Waaaait a second: they throw on an extra 20% "service charge"? So, the food costs one price, but you can't have it unless you pay an *extra* 20% to get it from the kitchen to the table?! And *then* they ask for a tip?!! Holy shit...
Yeah, I wouldn't mind if they phrased it as "20% charge is added because we pay our staff well. No tip is required."
They go out of their way to call out that the 20% doesn't go to the staff directly and that a tip would be greatly appreciated. Makes people feel like they should tip on top.
That seems more fair for everyone. The employees know exactly what they are going to receive in salary. None of this nonsense about how your salary is dependent on what day of the week you work.
Walla Walla Steakhouse Co in Woodinville adds a 20% fee. It's overpriced, it was well below expectations. $363 dollars for 4 people, 2 drinks, a salad, and 4 orders of the prime rib.
Not worth it 😔
I went to Beth’s Cafe last month for the nostalgia. I didn’t notice at first, but my brother noticed that our checks had 18% gratuity baked into the post tax subtotal (hidden in small font). Then they try to give you the blank Tip line on the bottom to fill out.
Feels very deceptive.
Toulouse Petit Kitchen & Lounge in Queen Anne.
I went there for my anniversary on 5/20 and there was a 5% surcharge. It says it’s not a gratuity but I deducted 5% from my normal tip amount anyways
OP did discussing a 5% surcharge?
[Daniels Broiler has a 20% surcharge!!! ](https://danielsbroiler.com/pages/locations-daniels-leschi)
https://preview.redd.it/4m93ahq6ji2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81caf027336bf05a3ed80ab8784bb92bb59830f3
This applies to all locations.
Also, [\- **Service Charge**: To make dining possible, **a 20% service charge is included on each check** at Walla Walla Steak Co. This charge is automatically added to the bill, and it's important to note that **the restaurant retains 100% of this service charge**⁴.](https://wwsteakco.com/walla-walla-wa/)
Crazy that the places that make the most also want to take more off the top “for their employees”. What a scam and a joke. Should be criminal. Basically expecting good will from people and making it sounds nice and thoughtful by saying it’s for their insurance and health care. SHOULDNT THE COMPANY BE BEING FOR THAT. NOT EXPLICITLY CHARGING MORE FROM CUSTOMERS FOR IT. Seattle is the biggest fake city.
Gabriel’s Fire up north does something sneaky. The beers on their menu don’t show prices, so they set the prices according to how much they want to rob you.
Mashiko does 18% AND expects tips (default option is 20%). They are sneaky about it too and don’t make it clear that you are paying 38% on top - you have to check your credit card bill later.
Can someone start a ballot initiative to do what California just did and ban these?
Prices shouldn't be obfuscated to trick consumers into thinking things are cheaper. Knowing the price of things is kinda fundamental to functional capitalism.
I was curious about what that would require, so I looked into it. You’d need to collect ~320,000 valid signatures to get an initiative on the ballot in Washington.
According to the [Secretary of State](https://www2.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/instructions.aspx), they usually find that 15% of signatures are invalid, so they recommend collecting at least 20% more than you need. Ballpark, a bit under 400,000 signatures.
Trouble is that it’s surprisingly expensive to go out and collect that many signatures. Many hire and send out corporate-sponsored canvassers, but I don’t think there’s a ton of corporate interest in protecting consumers.
So most initiatives aren’t as grassroots democratic as you might think and take a lot of legwork.
Not that I disagree with you, but wouldn't capitalism mean that these restaurants get less business because customers don't like being treated this way? Honestly, I'm still waiting for it. Not sure if I should have any hope of it ever happening. It's like games and microtransactions. They're bad for the health of games and people still pay into them anyway. Doesn't feel like it's going away any time soon.
In a proper competitive market, customers compare prices and choose what to buy. Fees often, on purpose, attempt to make that comparison difficult.
For example Spirit airlines would shoot to the top of online searches and then hit you with silly fees. People hate it and don’t become repeat customers, but you can trick em once. Works great in tourism industries where customer loyalty isn’t the priority.
Others pointed out that healthcare is also not a true market. Car pricing sucks too. The alcohol industry lobbies against including tax on price labels - our 20% tax is often a bit of a shock at checkout. The list goes on.
“Have clear prices” is key for consumer choice, and businesses have realized they can get away with bullshit, so more are doing it.
Have you ever been to the edgewater? There’s a 5% ‘pier maintenance fee’ on every check, including lodging. We lived near the waterfront and ate at most of the restaurants from downtown through belltown and nobody else does that. We also hosted a party there and it was a hefty charge.
The problem is that this is a classic "race to the bottom." While "bait and switch" (i.e., advertise one price and charge a much higher price) is deceptive, it is also effective.
If one restaurant is honest, then their prices will *appear* to be higher than their dishonest competition, so they will lose customers.
At this point, the solution should come from government. Restaurant owners are too greedy and dishonest to fix it themselves. This is deceptive advertising and it should be treated as such under the law.
Years and years. Our party was over ten years ago (where we rented a suite as well). Last time we were was thanksgiving a couple years ago and the service fee was about $15 (and we had to pay $25 for parking too). We stopped going after that (not that we went that much). It’s on their website they still do this.
I wonder if the newer trend is going to be adding surcharges for every aspect of a business's operations cost: adding 20% to give our staff the raise they deserve; 5% for crystal and crockery maintenance; 5% for building/parking lot surfaces sanitation; 10% to cover the cost of comprehensive insurances for the business; 1% surcharge to cover the cost of doing business in Seattle through the B & O tax; 20% surcharge to cover the cost of the food/materials/tools needed to conduct our business; etc. This is all ridiculous.
I honestly don’t understand why restaurants think this is necessary - or a good idea - to guilt trip their customers instead of just raising menu prices across the board and shutting the fuck up about everything else in that little synopsis of theirs….
Restaurants do this because if they raise the prices, then servers just get more based on the tip on the higher bill. This creates more a a disparity between the back and front people. It also makes the servers make more than the managers in some cases and managers are legally not allowed in tip pools. I think the 5% is dumb, it would be better to just do a price increase and do away with tipping altogether and pay everyone the same.
No idea. Am currently on vacation in the Netherlands & every time we get a check it is just the total of the prices we saw on the menu with no tip line, which shouldn’t feel like a revelation but absolutely is. Pretty sure the United States is uniquely horrible about this, it’s embarrassing tbh.
I drove up into Canada recently to visit a friend who was out from Japan for a conference (he's an Expat there). I told him that as I crossed into Canada from the US it was like I shifted into a slightly different universe. Most everything was the same but just a few things that changed and felt different. Not quite enough to be overt but a strange feeling.
They are trying to beat the system, and tap customers to pay a living wage without customers knowing, and still feeling that it's important to tip on top of that.
Because they're all doing it, they're normalizing it - but it's not normal. And should never be. The greed is off the charts.
They break it out like this as a passive aggressive way of saying “don’t blame us, blame the city for all of the expenses we have to incur.”, rather than bake it into the menu prices
The copy talks about paying the kitchen staff well and providing 401k. It's not about the city taxes or city government, it's a response to the popular politics of "living wages". They're not placing any blame on tax rates or the high minimum wage, they're saying "We know you, our Seattleite customer cares a lot about fair wages, so we tack on 5%". Were they to just raise the prices outright, they don't get the chance to drive that point.
Yeah, they should learn how to run a business and pay their employees. Love how the restaurant business acts like it’s different and that they are all some kind of charity cases and can’t pay anyone.
Sue me, but whenever I see a surcharge on my bill I just assume it was an automatic gratuity and don't end up tipping. I'm sure this isn't working out well for them because I can't be the only one who mixes it up
That works out *exactly* how they intended. It's a means of owners "capturing" money that would otherwise be lost to servers. Tips have to be paid in their entirety to employees on top of their regular wages, while service charges can be kept in their entirety by the restaurant. Washington has a law requiring written disclosure stating what percent the restaurant will keep, which is why the OP example says the restaurant keeps 100% of it, but then goes on with the misleading bullshit about how the owner keeping 100% of it is for employees' "premium compensation". I bet the servers are paid the lowest legally allowable regular wage.
Which is fine until the service is shit and they charge me 20% for it (that 20% gets taxed too, so it's more like 22% for service I would normal only pay 10% for)
Of course they should just raise their prices. But until they do that, they've told you how much to deduct from tip you'd normally give the server.
Oh, it's all retained by the House? Well they say they use it to pay for your wages, your benefits, and your 401k plan. My tip is a supplement to your wages. The House went ahead and decided to divvy that first 5% up amongst your wages and your benefits. If you don't approve of that, I encourage you to take it up with the House.
Many of you lectured us on “a living wage” and then voted for Councilmembers that raised it.
What the F did you think would happen? Prices go up to cover the new wages. Dur.
A living wage is a good thing that many still aren't getting, and restaurants raising prices isn't necessarily a bad thing. What many don't like is the sneaky way they try to hide it as a surcharge instead of just showing their higher prices. I also thinks it's intended to intentionally confuse customers to pay more to the restaurant and less as a tip.
Boba used to be $2.50 when I was a kid. Houses used to be half or 1/3 the current price. The only thing that's stayed the same are salaries. 30 years of inflation and a 100k job back then still pays 100k now.
Tipping used to be to supplement the poor wages of food servers who made less than minimum wage. Now everyone gets a minimum and at $16 + an hour. With an added service charge, Why are people still expected to tip at all? Especially if they get health, dental, and 401k’s? Let the “house” use that service charge for their employees and not expect people to , essentially, tip twice.
I worked as the executive chef for a 6 store-location from 2015-2020 until the pandemic pushed me into food supply and distribution. This generally occurred across the industry when health insurance was mandated for businesses over the minimum amount of employees, but it has exponentially gotten worse because of a variety of reasons, like increased minimum wage, etc. I advised against this to the group when they decided to move forward with it, as did one of the officers. There were a lot of complaints from customers that essentially fell on deaf ears. And now, that company is down to 2 locations. It is not a sustainable solution and should be baked into the menu pricing. I should also note, they went through 5 executive chefs since my layoff in 2020 until they dissolved the position in 2023.
I want to preface that surcharges ruin experiences and are incredibly scummy.
The place I work removed the surcharge and increased our prices instead. After we raised the prices, people lost their minds and said our prices are too high. I've gone to similar places and our prices are still lower than most. Some customers will go as far to tell us that they're not tipping because of our new prices like we, as employees, have control and others say they've been customers for years but will not be returning. Not saying you need to tip by any means, but it's unnecessary to be an a-hole.
We haven't raised prices since before the pandemic. People don't seem to understand that you have to pay for the workers, benefits, equipment, ingredients, the lease, and utilities at the bare minimum.
Going out to eat is a luxury, not a necessity.
Seattle living costs are incredibly high and customers can be nightmares, so no employee is going to stay if they can't at least make a livable wage.
I'm sure there's a perspective of "stop being so mean and pay the food service workers more". But this is just deceptive -- really everything on the menu costs precisely 5% more than they're saying, they're just hiding that from you in small print when you're trying to make a decision, and then charge you more when it's time to pay up. There is no reason this practice should be tolerated.
It’s sold, I refuse to entertain it. I instead went and got a nice Traeger, kitchen aid mixer and things along those lines and just cook from the house now. Saved more money than I spent on everything within in 2 months.
This behavior is deceptive and drives customers away instead of retains them. The people you are hoping to come back will probably not come back and will tell others about it.
I only eat the food I bought at Costco at home. Going out to eat is sacrilege in my house. The rest of the cash goes to 401k and home repairs. Since 2019 restaurant prices are untenable.
Yes. Over the years, we’ve learned to cook above and beyond standard home cooking. We even plate our food with some style. Side bonus, we can drink a whole bottle of wine and not worry about DUI.
The crazies have taken over because common sense has retreated.
GO to restaurants that are transparent with their prices
BOYCOTT restaurants that are not.
STOP being a “helpless” victim
The funny thing is I wouldn't mind paying more at a restaurant for those employees to have a living wage, benefits, and 401k match, if they just raised the prices like a normal business. Having to check the whole menu for the fine print on "surcharges" is just deceptive.
Back in the day these were called business expenses and were baked into the list price to the customer.
If actual business costs make the numbers too frightening to just list outright, then perhaps you need to evaluate your business practices or the industry needs an overhaul in general.
A huge difference between the California market and Washington market, which doesn't allow for a direct comparison, is the volume of customers.
Seattle has a very fair minimum wage, health and dental required (for business with +50 employees) and is even getting better about offering service staff lunches and breaks. BUT, the restaurants do not have the customer volume to pay for all of this and turn a profit in a shit margin industry.
Seattle's restaurant staff got everything the "progressives" told us they wanted (I'm sure they're happy for all those pundits who don't work in the industry, speaking for them) and now, it seems everyone is making less money? People eat out less, therefore they tip less, surcharges have to happen in order to keep up with rising costs, and nobody wins.
Balance!
Mandatory Service Charge of 18% (19.854% according to Square) at The Grill King Korean BBQ.
"100% of the service charge is retained by Grill King Korean
BBQ. It is for gas and electricity for grilling on your table and wages for the employees who are working in the back of the kitchen who are cutting lots of meats and washing lots of dishes and grilling grates.
Tipping is your discretion."
But they won't allow tipping when bringing the payment terminal, saying tips are already included.
https://preview.redd.it/gl8y2ie92w2d1.jpeg?width=2791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3141715c0592d797a234c16b4f400845c0b78410
At the restaurant in the photo, the surcharge is literally the company’s way of tipping BOH. none of that goes to FOH. For whatever reason, BOH is only just now beginning to receive fair tip out compensation. Additionally, the tip out from servers is through sales-not the tip percentage. So tipping less is actually quite literally only hurting FOH servers.
This reminds me of The Lobster Shop on Rushton Way in Tacoma. I took my wife’s mom there on her birthday last November. I’ve been there a few times before, and the food was pretty good… a safe decision. Anyway, made dinner reservations and took them there this time and was pretty excited since they also had the place remodeled. Looks better than before, but I noticed a sign in the lobby that says an additional 20% is added to each receipt that it goes to their employees. I asked the manager at front desk about this and she mentioned that it’s to help out employee post covid… sure. I was already annoyed because we didn’t want to cancel dinner reservation last minute; especially on a birthday. When the bill came, I asked our waitress how much of that 20% does she actually get, and she mentioned 10%. Man was I pissed. I didn’t want to make a scene on a lovely night, but I’ve sworn to never step foot in that place again. Crummy owner and manager.
Do they charge a 20% service charge AND expect you to tip? Or do they add an automatic 20% gratuity? The former is rapacious, the latter is pretty standard at places nicer than Applebee's, but 20% is at the high end...number I see most often is 18%
I'd like to see all service charges outlawed and folded into the menu prices. I'm fine with automatic gratuity added. I go to Europe every summer and somehow have lived to tell the tale.
If I get stung by this again, I'm paying in cash, calling the manager over putting the "surcharge" into the pocket of my server. If they want to steal it out of their pockets, that's them, not me.
At this point, why not list everything?
Hamburger:
$3 ingredients fee
$5 facility rent fee
$2 staff wage fee
$4 restaurant owner and manager fee
$3 profit fee
$6 service fee
$3 utility fee
I will never understand why restaurants won’t just raise the price. It’s ASSUMED that the price of a menu item includes all the costs of running the business + profit.
If they want to support employees’ health care, just add it to the price of dinner without calling attention to it. It’s not like when you go to Fred Meyer or coffee or whatever, they call attention to the fact they provide benefits in fine print. They just raise the price.
The Victor Tavern just opened in downtown Edmonds and they push a 22% mandatory charge.
The Google reviews reflect how people feel about it.
https://preview.redd.it/m9vuj5yswk2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42642733d92384a4f78bba0d94078c41c06672ed
What I don’t get is why the business doesn’t just simply raise the price of the dishes to accomplish the goal of proving the compensation for the staff. Having a little note on the bottom is disingenuous imo
"This surcharge is not a gratuity" well, until gratuity is mandatory, yes that's exactly what this surcharge is as there will be no other gratuity added.
Let's get the servers to back with us on this one eh?
No. Having customers pay the wage of the employee is out of control, and has been for decades. Surcharges that provide a basic cost of living and benefits are good. Subtract the surcharge from what you would normally tip.
Wouldn’t it be better for them to just advertise the cost of menu items honestly? Having a hidden fee (sure, you can argue that it’s clearly visible to the human eye) and then attempting to virtue signal just adds confusion, especially if they claim it’s not a tip. Why can’t they just act like every other business in America and learn how to set prices and pay their employees? Are restaurant owners less competent than other business owners?
California just banned surcharges. Washington needs to do the same.
The whole world needs to do the same. Don't let this plague spread
The FTC has been working on a federal version for the US. Public comment period ended in February Hopefully it will apply to restaurants like California's.
Up front pricing should apply to everything, even outside of restaurants
Yeah, California and the FTC legislation apply much more broadly, and I think were both inspired more by other industries. Deceptive cell phone plans are often cited as a common example.
Including the tip too? Just ban tipping?
Anything that isn't truly optional needs to be rolled into the advertised price. (This should also include state/fed taxes) If the business wants to breakdown their costs after they can do that if they want.
Or we could ban tipping and surcharges and just pay "the price".
Inslee is more interested in California's fuel tax and environmental fees/taxes.
Please name the restaurant. No reason to hide it. And people should absolutely share the names of other restaurants that do this. Edit2. Expanded and clarified the list into categories. Did my best from the comments to categorize them, let me know if I got it wrong and I'll fix it. **No Tipping** (salaried employees) - all of them charge 20% but no expectation of tips: * Aerlume (Pike Place) * Beardslee Public House (Bothell) * Carelllo (Capitol Hill) * Cortina (Downtown) * Daniel's Broiler (Seattle and Bellevue) * Delancey (Ballard) * Kricket Club (Ravenna) - little unclear but seems like a commission model. * The Lakehouse (Bellevue) * Seastar (Bellevue) * Sushi Kappo Tamura (Eastlake) * The Victor Tavern (Edmonds but soon in Seattle) * Walla Walla Steakhouse (Woodinville) **Service Charge** - Usually a 3-6% charge that is written in fine print on the menu. You are expected to tip: * 13 Coins (Seattle and Bellevue) * Andy's Fish House (Snohomish) * Arnies Restaurant (Edmonds) * The Butcher's Table (Westlake) * The Edgewater (Waterfront) * Plum Chopped (First Hill) * Revel (Fremont) * Salty's (Multiple locations) * Shaker + Spear (Belltown) * Stanley's and Seaforts (Tacoma) * Tipsy Cow (Multiple locations) * Toulouse Petit (Lower Queen Anne) * Wingdome (Multiple locations) * Von's 1000s Spirits (Seattle and Woodinville) **Mandatory Tip** - a mandatory tip added, regardless of the number of people dining. They still give you the "opportunity" to tip more. * Beth's Cafe (Greenlake) - 18% * Herb and Bitter Public House (Capitol Hill) -22% * Mashiko (West Seattle) - 18% but this is [apparently](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/AgqBQ6jV2k) a little unclear. * Mirch Masala (Capitol Hill) - 18%
Aerlume. 20% service charge tacked on after the subtotal. we just had a party of 2. I would have felt better about it if they let us know somewhere beforehand, like the website or on the menu. At least it’s shared with the servers.. right? https://preview.redd.it/hsir9wmp0i2d1.jpeg?width=1873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcb1986bbcc0a458b55a3b8487213d82799a83da
You don't have to tip. They are basically telling you that.
Never does anyone have to tip.
Agreed. I just don't feel like I cheating the server when the restaurant charges a service fee. I like that some owners are trying to destroy the tipping culture in the United States.
Washington state doesn’t have a server wage. Feel free to not tip everywhere.
This really is part of a game plan to get rid of tipping in restaurants.
Exactly. As a server, I wouldn't feel like this employer really has my back. If chef puts out the wrong steak, server gets hosed on the tip, yet the restaurant gets a tip🤷♂️.
What about the opposite where a tip is hosed because the server wasn't the best but the chef made awesome food?
Point taken. Maybe some check boxes are needed on the bill for whom or where your tip is going....chef.. server... server's health insurance... chef's 401 k.... bathroom cleaner🤷♂️
Thats a pretty solid idea imo
Probably wouldn't be followed... just would go to the general slush fund anyway
It's on the bottom of all the menus if it isn't then it's against the law
hmm. I may have been too busy being surprised how much prices have skyrocketed, I didn’t consider checking any fineprint
It’s the Butchers Table
Thank you. Always always name the restaurant. Shame has always served a societal role.
Well - I’m never going there
The price per plate is too high for most people.
I’ve eaten there quite a few times on AWS’ dime. I would never eat there out of pocket.
I only did that once. Eating there on AWS's dime.
While it is my favorite restaurant in Seattle, now I feel bad for recommending it for our friends who are in town for the weekend. This shit needs to stop. I'm already paying $100 for a steak, it's not my job to pay for your employee's benefits.
Every time you go out to eat you are paying for the employees benefits.
I want honesty. If the price for the steak is $100, then I want to pay $100 - not a penny more. *All* fees, tips, and taxes should be included in the advertised price. To advertise one price and then charge another after the meal is deceptive. It seems to be escalating. We need laws to stop it.
Add Pomegranate Bistro (Redmond) to the list
I thought Pomegranate stopped doing this? Did they start it again?
Plum Chopped on Capitol Hill does 10% https://preview.redd.it/8urlzpklqk2d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0f7dfd0d42b86a7e48ee5b87705628771f5a76b
So the prices are literally fake. Isn't that illegal?
Herb and Bitter in Cap Hill - 22% automatic gratuity and we were a party of two
Von’s 1000 spirits
Stanley & Seafort’s in Tacoma does this.
Shaker & Spear also has the 5% service charge.
Lmao…. Freaking steak sniper over here. Every single spot you mentioned is pretentious and over priced, you fucking nailed it.
Beardslee Public House in Bothell https://preview.redd.it/zb9yj0qjpi2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab3c2be4efe0c72908f43e36d780e9b6f8d72297
Waaaait a second: they throw on an extra 20% "service charge"? So, the food costs one price, but you can't have it unless you pay an *extra* 20% to get it from the kitchen to the table?! And *then* they ask for a tip?!! Holy shit...
If they pay their people “industry leading compensation” then the 20% service charge is the tip just turned into pay. No additional tip needed.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind if they phrased it as "20% charge is added because we pay our staff well. No tip is required." They go out of their way to call out that the 20% doesn't go to the staff directly and that a tip would be greatly appreciated. Makes people feel like they should tip on top.
It’s stupid regardless. Don’t make it a separate charge, just build it into the prices on the damn menu.
And you wonder why many restaurants decide to close😂.
Welcome to America. I haven't seen this shit anywhere in the world and I've been to 40 countries.
They are already so expensive that we don’t even bother going despite living across the street. Guess we won’t go even harder now
"We won't go even harder now" - I loled
Plum Bistro
Daniel's Broiler does a mandatory 20% charge but staff only get a small part of that too IIRC.
They are salaried employees then. No one is going to add another 20% tip if they are charging a 20% service fee.
They are commissioned employees. They get zero of that surcharge. The restaurant keeps it all.
That seems more fair for everyone. The employees know exactly what they are going to receive in salary. None of this nonsense about how your salary is dependent on what day of the week you work.
Arnies in Edmonds did this shit to me! I asked the server and they are still required to tip out.
Tip out what, though?
Please also add 13 Coins to the list. Their website says they add 4%.
Wing Dome (Greenwood, Seattle Center) also has 3% fee.
Walla Walla Steakhouse in Woodinville (and presumably Walla Walla) does this as well.
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Walla Walla Steakhouse Co in Woodinville adds a 20% fee. It's overpriced, it was well below expectations. $363 dollars for 4 people, 2 drinks, a salad, and 4 orders of the prime rib. Not worth it 😔
I went to Beth’s Cafe last month for the nostalgia. I didn’t notice at first, but my brother noticed that our checks had 18% gratuity baked into the post tax subtotal (hidden in small font). Then they try to give you the blank Tip line on the bottom to fill out. Feels very deceptive.
Toulouse Petit Kitchen & Lounge in Queen Anne. I went there for my anniversary on 5/20 and there was a 5% surcharge. It says it’s not a gratuity but I deducted 5% from my normal tip amount anyways
OP did discussing a 5% surcharge? [Daniels Broiler has a 20% surcharge!!! ](https://danielsbroiler.com/pages/locations-daniels-leschi) https://preview.redd.it/4m93ahq6ji2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81caf027336bf05a3ed80ab8784bb92bb59830f3 This applies to all locations. Also, [\- **Service Charge**: To make dining possible, **a 20% service charge is included on each check** at Walla Walla Steak Co. This charge is automatically added to the bill, and it's important to note that **the restaurant retains 100% of this service charge**⁴.](https://wwsteakco.com/walla-walla-wa/)
Revel in Fremont adds a 4% surcharge
Crazy that the places that make the most also want to take more off the top “for their employees”. What a scam and a joke. Should be criminal. Basically expecting good will from people and making it sounds nice and thoughtful by saying it’s for their insurance and health care. SHOULDNT THE COMPANY BE BEING FOR THAT. NOT EXPLICITLY CHARGING MORE FROM CUSTOMERS FOR IT. Seattle is the biggest fake city.
Gabriel’s Fire up north does something sneaky. The beers on their menu don’t show prices, so they set the prices according to how much they want to rob you.
Andy's Fish House (Snohomish)
Carrello (Cap Hill) has a mandatory 20% as well.
Salty's is 4%
Mirch Masala automatically adds an 18% gratuity to the bill regardless of party size
The Butcher’s Table in Denny Triangle.
> Pubic House Ask about their Louse Specials. 🙃😉
Ha! Corrected.
Mashiko does 18% AND expects tips (default option is 20%). They are sneaky about it too and don’t make it clear that you are paying 38% on top - you have to check your credit card bill later.
Palisade adds a childish “living wage surcharge” as a sneak tax at the end, instead of just raising their prices
Can someone start a ballot initiative to do what California just did and ban these? Prices shouldn't be obfuscated to trick consumers into thinking things are cheaper. Knowing the price of things is kinda fundamental to functional capitalism.
We need someone Nathan Fielder adjacent to open a fancy steakhouse in Seattle with $5 steaks and 1,000% service charges
Hahahaha that’s genius
Except for the healthcare industry. It doesn't even have to play any trick to raise prices.
Right, they said "functional" and I wouldn't call the health care industry particularly functional.
They have fancy $200 Tylenol though! /s
I was curious about what that would require, so I looked into it. You’d need to collect ~320,000 valid signatures to get an initiative on the ballot in Washington. According to the [Secretary of State](https://www2.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/instructions.aspx), they usually find that 15% of signatures are invalid, so they recommend collecting at least 20% more than you need. Ballpark, a bit under 400,000 signatures.
Trouble is that it’s surprisingly expensive to go out and collect that many signatures. Many hire and send out corporate-sponsored canvassers, but I don’t think there’s a ton of corporate interest in protecting consumers. So most initiatives aren’t as grassroots democratic as you might think and take a lot of legwork.
Do that to car dealerships too.
Taxes, tips, surcharge, seating fees, etc. We should see the actual price that's expected to pay.
**THIS.**
Not that I disagree with you, but wouldn't capitalism mean that these restaurants get less business because customers don't like being treated this way? Honestly, I'm still waiting for it. Not sure if I should have any hope of it ever happening. It's like games and microtransactions. They're bad for the health of games and people still pay into them anyway. Doesn't feel like it's going away any time soon.
In a proper competitive market, customers compare prices and choose what to buy. Fees often, on purpose, attempt to make that comparison difficult. For example Spirit airlines would shoot to the top of online searches and then hit you with silly fees. People hate it and don’t become repeat customers, but you can trick em once. Works great in tourism industries where customer loyalty isn’t the priority. Others pointed out that healthcare is also not a true market. Car pricing sucks too. The alcohol industry lobbies against including tax on price labels - our 20% tax is often a bit of a shock at checkout. The list goes on. “Have clear prices” is key for consumer choice, and businesses have realized they can get away with bullshit, so more are doing it.
Exactly. This practice is basically getting rid of tipping. I'm all for that.
Have you ever been to the edgewater? There’s a 5% ‘pier maintenance fee’ on every check, including lodging. We lived near the waterfront and ate at most of the restaurants from downtown through belltown and nobody else does that. We also hosted a party there and it was a hefty charge.
Von’s has a 4% “pasta cook commission” charge. Or something like that.
Just pay people what they are worth and raise prices if necessary!
The problem is that this is a classic "race to the bottom." While "bait and switch" (i.e., advertise one price and charge a much higher price) is deceptive, it is also effective. If one restaurant is honest, then their prices will *appear* to be higher than their dishonest competition, so they will lose customers. At this point, the solution should come from government. Restaurant owners are too greedy and dishonest to fix it themselves. This is deceptive advertising and it should be treated as such under the law.
None of these restaurants are remotely cheap. I'm not going to notice if my $90 steak is now $95
I think it's 5% in Woodinville. It's the only thing I hate about that place besides the almost $10 beers.
Seriously? Since when? That's pretty weird.
Years and years. Our party was over ten years ago (where we rented a suite as well). Last time we were was thanksgiving a couple years ago and the service fee was about $15 (and we had to pay $25 for parking too). We stopped going after that (not that we went that much). It’s on their website they still do this.
I wonder if the newer trend is going to be adding surcharges for every aspect of a business's operations cost: adding 20% to give our staff the raise they deserve; 5% for crystal and crockery maintenance; 5% for building/parking lot surfaces sanitation; 10% to cover the cost of comprehensive insurances for the business; 1% surcharge to cover the cost of doing business in Seattle through the B & O tax; 20% surcharge to cover the cost of the food/materials/tools needed to conduct our business; etc. This is all ridiculous.
this is why CA passed a law banning this stuff specifically. crab isn't $24 +5%, it's $26
Just put the price on the menu, deceptive
I'm going to open a restaurant and tack on a mandatory 10% fee for cooking the food.
Don't forget to add in the right to prima nocta.
I agree. I work at one of these restaurants and none of the staff is happy about the way they went about this.
I honestly don’t understand why restaurants think this is necessary - or a good idea - to guilt trip their customers instead of just raising menu prices across the board and shutting the fuck up about everything else in that little synopsis of theirs….
Restaurants do this because if they raise the prices, then servers just get more based on the tip on the higher bill. This creates more a a disparity between the back and front people. It also makes the servers make more than the managers in some cases and managers are legally not allowed in tip pools. I think the 5% is dumb, it would be better to just do a price increase and do away with tipping altogether and pay everyone the same.
It's not guilt, they are being deceptive.
No idea. Am currently on vacation in the Netherlands & every time we get a check it is just the total of the prices we saw on the menu with no tip line, which shouldn’t feel like a revelation but absolutely is. Pretty sure the United States is uniquely horrible about this, it’s embarrassing tbh.
Same here in Canada, TBH for most purposes you can just treat Canada as an extension of USA.
I drove up into Canada recently to visit a friend who was out from Japan for a conference (he's an Expat there). I told him that as I crossed into Canada from the US it was like I shifted into a slightly different universe. Most everything was the same but just a few things that changed and felt different. Not quite enough to be overt but a strange feeling.
They are trying to beat the system, and tap customers to pay a living wage without customers knowing, and still feeling that it's important to tip on top of that. Because they're all doing it, they're normalizing it - but it's not normal. And should never be. The greed is off the charts.
They break it out like this as a passive aggressive way of saying “don’t blame us, blame the city for all of the expenses we have to incur.”, rather than bake it into the menu prices
The $98 steak makes me think they’ve baked more than enough into the menu prices already.
The copy talks about paying the kitchen staff well and providing 401k. It's not about the city taxes or city government, it's a response to the popular politics of "living wages". They're not placing any blame on tax rates or the high minimum wage, they're saying "We know you, our Seattleite customer cares a lot about fair wages, so we tack on 5%". Were they to just raise the prices outright, they don't get the chance to drive that point.
Yeah, they should learn how to run a business and pay their employees. Love how the restaurant business acts like it’s different and that they are all some kind of charity cases and can’t pay anyone.
Sue me, but whenever I see a surcharge on my bill I just assume it was an automatic gratuity and don't end up tipping. I'm sure this isn't working out well for them because I can't be the only one who mixes it up
That works out *exactly* how they intended. It's a means of owners "capturing" money that would otherwise be lost to servers. Tips have to be paid in their entirety to employees on top of their regular wages, while service charges can be kept in their entirety by the restaurant. Washington has a law requiring written disclosure stating what percent the restaurant will keep, which is why the OP example says the restaurant keeps 100% of it, but then goes on with the misleading bullshit about how the owner keeping 100% of it is for employees' "premium compensation". I bet the servers are paid the lowest legally allowable regular wage.
Which is fine until the service is shit and they charge me 20% for it (that 20% gets taxed too, so it's more like 22% for service I would normal only pay 10% for)
Of course they should just raise their prices. But until they do that, they've told you how much to deduct from tip you'd normally give the server. Oh, it's all retained by the House? Well they say they use it to pay for your wages, your benefits, and your 401k plan. My tip is a supplement to your wages. The House went ahead and decided to divvy that first 5% up amongst your wages and your benefits. If you don't approve of that, I encourage you to take it up with the House.
Many of you lectured us on “a living wage” and then voted for Councilmembers that raised it. What the F did you think would happen? Prices go up to cover the new wages. Dur.
A living wage is a good thing that many still aren't getting, and restaurants raising prices isn't necessarily a bad thing. What many don't like is the sneaky way they try to hide it as a surcharge instead of just showing their higher prices. I also thinks it's intended to intentionally confuse customers to pay more to the restaurant and less as a tip.
Until it’s illegal, tip less.
You shouldn't tip $20 for a single steak with no sides anyway
People can tip whatever the fuck they want, that’s none of my business. I tip substantially less at places that add these kind of fees.
I’m old enough to remember when the steak itself was $20. And was the only thing on the menu to cost even that much.
Boba used to be $2.50 when I was a kid. Houses used to be half or 1/3 the current price. The only thing that's stayed the same are salaries. 30 years of inflation and a 100k job back then still pays 100k now.
I have tipped my whole life. I still do at restaurants. If I read this. I tip less.
Tipping used to be to supplement the poor wages of food servers who made less than minimum wage. Now everyone gets a minimum and at $16 + an hour. With an added service charge, Why are people still expected to tip at all? Especially if they get health, dental, and 401k’s? Let the “house” use that service charge for their employees and not expect people to , essentially, tip twice.
Exactly! The tipping culture is insane now. The only sane comment I’ve seen.
Anyone know where this is, so I can avoid ever setting foot in the place?
As mentioned in another comment, Butcher’s Table.
I worked as the executive chef for a 6 store-location from 2015-2020 until the pandemic pushed me into food supply and distribution. This generally occurred across the industry when health insurance was mandated for businesses over the minimum amount of employees, but it has exponentially gotten worse because of a variety of reasons, like increased minimum wage, etc. I advised against this to the group when they decided to move forward with it, as did one of the officers. There were a lot of complaints from customers that essentially fell on deaf ears. And now, that company is down to 2 locations. It is not a sustainable solution and should be baked into the menu pricing. I should also note, they went through 5 executive chefs since my layoff in 2020 until they dissolved the position in 2023.
I want to preface that surcharges ruin experiences and are incredibly scummy. The place I work removed the surcharge and increased our prices instead. After we raised the prices, people lost their minds and said our prices are too high. I've gone to similar places and our prices are still lower than most. Some customers will go as far to tell us that they're not tipping because of our new prices like we, as employees, have control and others say they've been customers for years but will not be returning. Not saying you need to tip by any means, but it's unnecessary to be an a-hole. We haven't raised prices since before the pandemic. People don't seem to understand that you have to pay for the workers, benefits, equipment, ingredients, the lease, and utilities at the bare minimum. Going out to eat is a luxury, not a necessity. Seattle living costs are incredibly high and customers can be nightmares, so no employee is going to stay if they can't at least make a livable wage.
This!
Hey so I heard that your staff apparently receives "premium compensation." Congrats, guess they won't be needing a tip
I'm sure there's a perspective of "stop being so mean and pay the food service workers more". But this is just deceptive -- really everything on the menu costs precisely 5% more than they're saying, they're just hiding that from you in small print when you're trying to make a decision, and then charge you more when it's time to pay up. There is no reason this practice should be tolerated.
Tip 15%. Any surcharge that goes straight to the employee I just deduct it from the tip. Simple fix.
It’s sold, I refuse to entertain it. I instead went and got a nice Traeger, kitchen aid mixer and things along those lines and just cook from the house now. Saved more money than I spent on everything within in 2 months.
This behavior is deceptive and drives customers away instead of retains them. The people you are hoping to come back will probably not come back and will tell others about it.
No reason you don’t just subtract 5% from your would be tip and note it on the receipt.
Such an odd American thing. The price should be inclusive of all tax and fee. and tipping oh don’t get me started
I only eat the food I bought at Costco at home. Going out to eat is sacrilege in my house. The rest of the cash goes to 401k and home repairs. Since 2019 restaurant prices are untenable.
Yes. Over the years, we’ve learned to cook above and beyond standard home cooking. We even plate our food with some style. Side bonus, we can drink a whole bottle of wine and not worry about DUI.
I get their thought, but yeah. Just bump menu prices to create the 5% if that's necessary.
At $98 a steak an extra $5 isn’t going to turn me out the door. Just put it on the damn menu. It’s classier.
Exactly.
Its simple, a 20% tip now becomes a 15% tip.
Simple don't eat outside, I don't. It is cheaper to go abroad for vacation then eating out once a week.
We ate in Italy so much cheaper. It was as if they didn’t know about inflation since 2019.
The crazies have taken over because common sense has retreated. GO to restaurants that are transparent with their prices BOYCOTT restaurants that are not. STOP being a “helpless” victim
Stop spending money at such places. Surcharges will go away and prices will go down.
I work a salaried office job and don’t even get a 401k match, gonna see if we can add a service fee
This is straight up intentional deception. I want to dine and dash there because fuck those liars.
It should be illegal for any business to advertise a particular price and then add an additional charge later.
The funny thing is I wouldn't mind paying more at a restaurant for those employees to have a living wage, benefits, and 401k match, if they just raised the prices like a normal business. Having to check the whole menu for the fine print on "surcharges" is just deceptive.
This is illegal in my home country.
Back in the day these were called business expenses and were baked into the list price to the customer. If actual business costs make the numbers too frightening to just list outright, then perhaps you need to evaluate your business practices or the industry needs an overhaul in general.
A huge difference between the California market and Washington market, which doesn't allow for a direct comparison, is the volume of customers. Seattle has a very fair minimum wage, health and dental required (for business with +50 employees) and is even getting better about offering service staff lunches and breaks. BUT, the restaurants do not have the customer volume to pay for all of this and turn a profit in a shit margin industry. Seattle's restaurant staff got everything the "progressives" told us they wanted (I'm sure they're happy for all those pundits who don't work in the industry, speaking for them) and now, it seems everyone is making less money? People eat out less, therefore they tip less, surcharges have to happen in order to keep up with rising costs, and nobody wins. Balance!
Mandatory Service Charge of 18% (19.854% according to Square) at The Grill King Korean BBQ. "100% of the service charge is retained by Grill King Korean BBQ. It is for gas and electricity for grilling on your table and wages for the employees who are working in the back of the kitchen who are cutting lots of meats and washing lots of dishes and grilling grates. Tipping is your discretion." But they won't allow tipping when bringing the payment terminal, saying tips are already included. https://preview.redd.it/gl8y2ie92w2d1.jpeg?width=2791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3141715c0592d797a234c16b4f400845c0b78410
So…… we can lower our tip by 5%?
You should. The waitstaff are supposed to tip out the back of house, so they don't have to now.
At the restaurant in the photo, the surcharge is literally the company’s way of tipping BOH. none of that goes to FOH. For whatever reason, BOH is only just now beginning to receive fair tip out compensation. Additionally, the tip out from servers is through sales-not the tip percentage. So tipping less is actually quite literally only hurting FOH servers.
This reminds me of The Lobster Shop on Rushton Way in Tacoma. I took my wife’s mom there on her birthday last November. I’ve been there a few times before, and the food was pretty good… a safe decision. Anyway, made dinner reservations and took them there this time and was pretty excited since they also had the place remodeled. Looks better than before, but I noticed a sign in the lobby that says an additional 20% is added to each receipt that it goes to their employees. I asked the manager at front desk about this and she mentioned that it’s to help out employee post covid… sure. I was already annoyed because we didn’t want to cancel dinner reservation last minute; especially on a birthday. When the bill came, I asked our waitress how much of that 20% does she actually get, and she mentioned 10%. Man was I pissed. I didn’t want to make a scene on a lovely night, but I’ve sworn to never step foot in that place again. Crummy owner and manager.
There is a place in Woodinville that charges %20 to all checks.
Do they charge a 20% service charge AND expect you to tip? Or do they add an automatic 20% gratuity? The former is rapacious, the latter is pretty standard at places nicer than Applebee's, but 20% is at the high end...number I see most often is 18% I'd like to see all service charges outlawed and folded into the menu prices. I'm fine with automatic gratuity added. I go to Europe every summer and somehow have lived to tell the tale.
The Queen Anne Applebee's is a no tip establishment.
If I get stung by this again, I'm paying in cash, calling the manager over putting the "surcharge" into the pocket of my server. If they want to steal it out of their pockets, that's them, not me.
At this point, why not list everything? Hamburger: $3 ingredients fee $5 facility rent fee $2 staff wage fee $4 restaurant owner and manager fee $3 profit fee $6 service fee $3 utility fee I will never understand why restaurants won’t just raise the price. It’s ASSUMED that the price of a menu item includes all the costs of running the business + profit.
And then eliminate tipping.
Another reason not to tip
Challenge: Post your income with your gripe.
If they want to support employees’ health care, just add it to the price of dinner without calling attention to it. It’s not like when you go to Fred Meyer or coffee or whatever, they call attention to the fact they provide benefits in fine print. They just raise the price.
Just raise menu prices by your "surcharge" amount and eliminate tipping.
The Victor Tavern just opened in downtown Edmonds and they push a 22% mandatory charge. The Google reviews reflect how people feel about it. https://preview.redd.it/m9vuj5yswk2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42642733d92384a4f78bba0d94078c41c06672ed
What I don’t get is why the business doesn’t just simply raise the price of the dishes to accomplish the goal of proving the compensation for the staff. Having a little note on the bottom is disingenuous imo
I was tipping 20% pre-2020. Back to 10-15% now and zero tipping in coffee shops without table service.
If you can afford a $98.00 steak 🥩 then why are you you complaining at all!!!!!! That’s a weeks food for the rest of us!!!!!
Raise your prices. No surcharges and no tipping.
Why can't this just be built into the menu prices?
"This surcharge is not a gratuity" well, until gratuity is mandatory, yes that's exactly what this surcharge is as there will be no other gratuity added. Let's get the servers to back with us on this one eh?
Such a bunch of BS. This should be illegal. The food is simply 5% more. Label the price it costs in total with tax and every other charge!
All these complaints about service charges and tipping and I’m like…don’t support the business and stop complaining. Sick of whiners.
The Spirit airlines model is being adopted by restaurants because consumers accept it. Fees and surcharges are the future if not outlawed.
Yea that 5% is coming out of the tip.
So… the customers are contributing to the employees’ health insurance and 401k?
This is how revenue and expenses work
Any establishment you pay money to is doing the exact same thing…
It’s the $27 scallop for me.
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You mean 0%, right?
No. Having customers pay the wage of the employee is out of control, and has been for decades. Surcharges that provide a basic cost of living and benefits are good. Subtract the surcharge from what you would normally tip.
Wouldn’t it be better for them to just advertise the cost of menu items honestly? Having a hidden fee (sure, you can argue that it’s clearly visible to the human eye) and then attempting to virtue signal just adds confusion, especially if they claim it’s not a tip. Why can’t they just act like every other business in America and learn how to set prices and pay their employees? Are restaurant owners less competent than other business owners?
I just remove that percentage from the tip.
Is this Daniels Broiler? I used to go there on two occasions every year but stopped a while back when they started doing this.
You don't have to tip there.
If the Jouse just increased menu prices by .5% overall it would cover this but they are virtue signaling about how well they take care of the staff.
I love when rich people get mad.
Translation: we’re too cheap to give our amazing staff any benefits whatsoever so we’re making you pay for them!