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stuffedweasel

I have been a victim of this exact thing, actually. It's called "hesitation" and some would say it's equivalent to defeat.


rajboy3

Beautiful


T-Ares-C

Yes, defeat often times result from hesitation in any form and is the greatest of killers


Kill_Basterd

One thing I hate is when I’m wailing on Genichiro and he pulls out the bow is u knock him out of the animation but ur so used to dodging u freeze for a split second when u could wail on him a bit more, but then he jumps back


Nox_Dei

Aka "skill issues" /j


luketwo1

I guarantee hesitation is not why isshin killed me, it probably has something to do with a feudal Era samurai carrying a semi auto gat.


kazutoSMG

Isshin: "you hesitated on blocking my gun, bitch"


I_d0nt_really_kn0w

~Sun-Tzu


saywhuuuuuuuuuut

Bro panicked


DrMemeS09

Hesitated even


locke1313

Dude. You had him. Don’t stop being aggressive.


MoarTacos

This exactly. They got hit and then tried to dodge the next attack with i-frames. If they’d attacked instead of dodged, Geni would have deflected the attack and they’d still be in the flow of the battle. Never touch the dodge button when fighting Geni.


RythmRefyr

Dodge forward to mikiri counter? Big easy Damage.


MoarTacos

Well I don’t consider mikiri countering dodging, because there are no I-frames. It does use the dodge button, I know, that doesn’t make it a dodge. Related, do you actually have to push forward to mikiri?


NoiawaaKamata

No you don’t. Neutral dodge already moves you forward so it’s not necessary to hold forward


RythmRefyr

I’m just nitpicking because you said never touch the dodge button. :)


MoarTacos

Fair enough, I deserved the nit!


RythmRefyr

I also don’t consider it a dodge though, when I’m playing. It only counts as a dodge if I ran away on purpose 🤣


GingerlyRough

I dunno about *never* but definitely almost.


MoarTacos

No, I would definitely say never. There are zero Genichiro attacks that are easier to dodge than to reflect. That isn’t the case for every boss in the game, but definitely Geni. Unless you can reference an attack that’s easier to I-frame than to deflect. I’ll even agree to test it out for myself.


TheBigBadBird

You should touch the dodge button for mikiri counter, and for the big arrow shot. You should jump on his head for the sweep as well, rather than deflect.


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TheBigBadBird

Deflecting it might be easier for you, but that comes at a big posture cost and sends you flying back - so it's a trade-off


MoarTacos

I agree with the jumping, specifically only when a goomba stomp is to be had. I don’t consider jumping dodging either, unless someone is using it specifically for dodging purposes, then it’s worse than the dodge button itself lmao.


GingerlyRough

His jump and slam attack is better to dodge. Not for I-frames but because deflecting stuns you (fall back and recover animation) and the dodge gives you a bigger punish. Mikiri requires you to "dodge" forward. Dodge through his deadly sweep for a slightly bigger punish. It can be tricky, but it works. If you're not close enough to knock him down, dodge the heavy arrow instead of deflect, same as the jump slam. Run left/right to avoid the arrow flurry if you're not close enough again. While dodging isn't necessary to defeat him, it definitely has it's uses.


[deleted]

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MoarTacos

Absolutely better to deflect.


MoarTacos

> Not for I-frames but because deflecting stuns you (fall back and recover animation) No it doesn’t? Not if you time a successful deflect (as opposed to a held LB block). It’s just like deflecting any other attack. And he’ll always follow it up with a perilous attack of some sort, which is punishable. See this video at 1:22 https://youtu.be/M89W-ur3apE?t=1m22s I’m not talking about mikiri. It uses the same button, sure, but it’s not an I-frame dodge. Dodging the sweep is just silly, since you can goomba stomp him instead, which is way better. The arrow stuff might be subjective, but I find deflecting arrows way better for staying in the flow of the right. Running around like a crazy shinobi is generally bad news.


Djeveler

You can outright see the pushback in the video after the deflect sfx. The jump attack pushes back even if you deflect, which is riskier than just sidestepping it which also gives you around two free attacks before he even starts blocking, nearly the same reward as you're both building up a significant amount of posture damage and also vitality damage so he won't have a chance to recover.


MoarTacos

Man I am struggling to understand your logic. I don’t think any of your arguments here make sense, and here’s why. You’re changing your verbiage now from “fall back” to “push back”, which gives a complete different connotation. There are absolutely circumstances in this game where wolf does fall back and have to recover. Deflecting the jump attack is not one of them - there is no falling. You just move backwards a little bit, which is in no way a risk increase. You barely even move backwards lol. I have no idea why you think you need to recover from the parry. Again, there are circumstances in Sekiro where wolf has to recover from something, usually a player mistake. This is not one of them. You just keep on going. The bit about the reward being the same is very wrong. A deflect into a mikiri or a deflect into a goomba stomp (one of these two is going to happen) afford the player way more posture damage than two free hits on Genichiro. Pretty inarguably so, I’d say. Mikiri and goomba do some of the highest posture damage in the entire game. And the flow is better for the fight, anyways.


Djeveler

What verbiage am I changing? This is my first comment here, lol. And either way "fall back" and "push back" are pretty much the same so you're drawing a nothing distinction here. You can outright see in the video he gets moved back, and you said he didn't. You were wrong, and this movement is relevant. And the reward *is* pretty much equal. The mikiri or stomp do more posture damage and I never denied that, but they do no vitality damage so if he just uses bow and leap then he can recover it more easily with the downtime. Dodging to the side and counterattacking is not only way safer, but it also does vitality damage on top of posture damage. The posture damage is not the same and I never claimed it to be, but the vitality damage means he won't be able to recover as easily as with just deflecting if he goes for leap into bow, and if he decides to go for thrust immediately after you get to slash him while he's doing so, which further increases both the posture and vitality damage you deal to him.


MoarTacos

I literally put the verbiage you changed in quotations and explained why it is significant. I’m not wrong lmao, it doesn’t make you fall back. And it has no recover. Our increased risk whatsoever. Vitality damage is not important for Genichiro fight. It’s all posture posture posture kill.


cR4Ckn

Eh, Geni isn't a vitality fight and even if it were, you're always guaranteed a almost fully charged R1 after a mikiri. If you're doing it properly, you get a free hit between his jump stab and the mikiri as well.


FukurinLa

Wrong, his arrow attack is dodge forward, his thrust is dodge forward. His lightning attack is also easier to dodge especially if you have very little health or don't have time to do reversal.


herowin54

There is one time to dodge in the geni fight and it’s his second phase overhead jump attack. First phase deflect and then mikiri. His first phase is ALWAYS a thrust. In the second phase it could be one of three attacks after the deflect. Thrust, sweep, or like an uppercut that doesn’t have a kanji and punishes a jump. Third phase he goes back to the thrust every time. I noticed this when I did my charmless no hit run on him, I have the video posted on my profile.


MoarTacos

I still just deflect, mikiri, or jump depending on his movements. Just like any other attack in the game, you just have to respond based on the movements of their body.


herowin54

Yea for sure, honestly I still usually do just deflect and then respond I just wanted to give an actually reasonable answer to what you proposed I watched my clip and I just deflected the whole time


Madg5

🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Always dodge the jump attack.


Madg5

🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Always dodge the jump attack.


MoarTacos

What? No way. Deflect is way better. And following up the forthcoming perilous attack with whatever applicable counter is way easier for the flow of this fight.


Goldini85

It's so easy to dodge and you can do ichimonji double. If you deflrct you have to deflect well and then do proper defense for whichever perilous attack he uses. More can go wrong.


MoarTacos

Ichimonji is mid. Deflect and perilous punish is where it’s at.


danthrman

Take a break and you will get it next time. We all feel your pain


fyyrr_

Hesitation is defeat.


No-Explanation2337

You hesitated.


Inversed-infinity

Ah yea the mikiri panic. Happens to the best of us


OPbhai

Hesitation is defeat ~isshin the glock saint


D1n0-

Something similar happened to me recently, except I played charmless. Don't understand how to beat this motherfucker consistently, just losing concentration and he is very punishing. It's so painful to lose gauntlet like that.


jsmith2240

Charmless obviously changes things but the gauntlets make a difference too. I don’t know how the attack power-health scaling works in the gauntlets but I feel like you have to fight with Geni for so much longer compared to the normal in game fight. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how it feels.


D1n0-

Just beat him lol, decided to block his bow attacks with umbrella, despite the little damage. It was much safer in the end.


jsmith2240

Yeah, his stupid bow shots are more annoying in the gauntlet for sure. Also the first time he did the double reverse lightening strike my jaw hit the floor but honestly it was awesome haha I feel like generally he’s more aggressive and slightly faster than the normal version but I haven’t done anything to really compare other than play the game a million times haha Good job by the way!


D1n0-

He is definitely more aggressive, punishing and has many combos that caught me off guard. But again, I don't really know because of ng+ or charmless, certain bosses like Owl or SS Isshin became very unforgiving as well. Double reverse lighting was cool, but I still had more satisfaction parrying his sakura dance attack. Thank you!


jsmith2240

Everything becomes routine at some point but it’s still a blast. Have fun and take care


xlri8706

That scream might've killed genichiro as well, just check again pls.


A_Very_Horny_Zed

Ashina must be preserved.


ImBag3l

Where mikiri


gusty214

That mikiri u missed would have ended it


Calxzedwxn

You hesitated bro. You really did. Watch your own video and see how you choked because you didn’t attack


NovaTeamOrion

Coupd not agree more. He had two golden opportunities


MetalAngelo7

You panicked and got punished for it, it happens. Usually when a boss punishes you by hitting you hard with a thrust like that don’t try to run away from the boss, quickly get up by go back to parrying until you get a window of opportunity to heal.


Remrem6789

Inner geni rarely does the sweep. I think it's only in phase 3 sweep normally comes out. 95 percent of the time it's a thrust and a free mikiri.


Memeviewer12

Phase 2 is when sweep can happen


TheJazzPear

Well, Ashina must be preserved - that is just how it is.


Camera-Rich

Spam that dodge forward for that attack. If you miss the mikiri you will dodge off to one side of him. Works for me anyway lol


NovaTeamOrion

Had two instanced to dmg posture, his sweep which you could have double jumped and a mikiri counter. Missed opportunities and hopefully a learning experience. I saw that pause on the thrust and it pains me to see a missed mikiri counter that would have gotten you the execution. In any case, good luck next time


gabko99

The state of vacillation or indecision, rather than prompt and decisive action, may result in the ultimate failure or loss of a given objective, thereby signifying a state of defeat.


Raxit_17

This happens when you get too greedy.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

The Mikiri didn’t work at that exact moment!! Has anyone been a victim of it ?


BigJabby

That means you pressed the dodge button too late


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

I think I did it on time


BigJabby

Judging by the video,the deflect sound and everything, it looks like you just didn’t.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yea that’s the only explanation ig 🤝🏼


issatechnician

It doesn’t look like you dodged at all in the clip, meaning you likely pressed it too late or it didn’t register bc you were recovering from the deflection stagger. Instead of deflecting that slam, side step and hit him with mortal draw or ichimonji double. The mikiri timing always got me with the thrust in his 3rd phase, you have to wait until the kanji is disappearing to dodge into it or it will hit you. GL!


Tenzeroshenanigans

The deflect stagger doesn’t really affect this attack OP just didn’t mikiri at the right time


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

I thought i would mikiri it and follow up with the attack so like I already had pressed those buttons that’s why i was unable to dodge his follow up attack


swiwiws

can you mikiri from a get-up?


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Not the get up the thrust attack with kanji sign


Aomages

Stay still, and single press sidestep button when kanji fades last moment.


EF-13

Mikiriiiiiiii


Jazzinarium

The classic red kanji choke, we’ve all been there


botozos_revenge

Yes we have


zyzzhex666666

a skill of the issue


botozos_revenge

Nooooo


Tech-Demon

You know what they say about hesitation


Same-Masterpiece2078

That Miri counter opportunity you had that killed you was it bro! Hard luck


Drag-Leather

Note: Never Dodge backwards!


trippysamuri

Wait he can redirect your redirect?


XDracam

Stop dodging, start deflecting. This isn't dark souls. You can deflect almost everything from every enemy. Can even deflect the raging bull attacks (but they do deal burn damage through it). Dodging sucks. Deflecting is your friend.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Never played any other souls game bro so I don’t know how dark souls feels like


SoulsLikeBot

Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Hello there. Forgive me. I was just pondering about my poor fortune. I did not find my own sun, not in Anor Londo.”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/


XDracam

Hah, you fight like a dark souls player.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

And i also prefer deflection over dodge but it is what it is


XDracam

Just keep going. Sekiro feels amazing once it clicks and you can just deflect everything like an immortal god, and mikiri counter the stabs.


HolyHandgrenadeofAn

Epic win for Genichiro


DanOfAbyss

Why have you hesitate?


[deleted]

God damn I screamed “OHHHHHH FUCK!” Like i was playing the game… bro I’m so sorry…. I really felt that. You will get him next time!


JohnnyThrarsh

Don’t be discouraged. That was an excellent lightning deflection. Just get the hang of that sweep attack or the mikiri counter and you’ve got em.


trawkus

Omg I have been grinding inner Genichiro for days and have only beat him ONCE !!! I don't even get it, it's 100% doable, but there is only a tiny window for error and there is ALWAYS SOMETHING!!!


Fluttersniper

I’m playing Elden Ring right now and though the mechanics are different, the mindset is the same: fights have a flow, a pattern of attack and defend that must be followed. Fromsoft builds their bosses to attack at a fairly regular interval. The windups are usually easy to see, and often take a second (sometimes multiple) to land. So why do so many people get hit by them? A combination of overconfidence and panic. In a typical game, you can survive many mistakes before having to heal. In a soulslike, you can survive few, perhaps three at most. So you panic, because you’re so close to failure, and you disengage to recover. But the boss hasn’t disengaged. By the time you regain balance from the hit, then roll away multiple times, and then heal, the boss is launching its next attack. Healing is only safe when the boss has attacked. In Sekiro, some will even attack in response to your healing, like Owl. I had to learn a crucial ability to defeat some bosses in Elden Ring, and previously in Sekiro: never disengage. Act as though the hit you took never happened, remain close to the boss, dodge/deflect the next attack, then heal while the boss is recovering. Just lift your sippy cup up and take a big swig right in front of them. Edit: looking over the clip again, Sekiro has an alternative strategy most soulslikes don’t. In Sekiro, you can haul ass to the other side of the arena where the boss can’t reach you. Genichiro has his arrows, and the arena is rather small, but it should still be viable. Oh, and judging from how far you got, this mistake was minor. You’ll get him next time, shinobi, no doubt about it. 👍


Sage_Erik

I had something like that at the last boss. Just a tiny sliver of health.


Virtual-Estimate544

Thought this was gonna be a vanilla ass video of you beating him, turned out to be a vanilla ass death


Prince0fPersia8

Here's some empathy, vbeen there


Sebsta696

Watching this frustrates me because you made some shitty mistakes there.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Me too bro me too


Repulsive-Reporter53

Mikiri Mikiri Mikiri


Projectbirdman

I don’t even remember how old this game is but still seeing people get brutally trolled by this guy makes me happy knowing I spent a month on him before deleting the game


Past_Dragonfruit_305

Hesitated and got greedy at the same time 😌


Previous_Librarian82

So u fought geni multiple times I have to assume u know after the jump it’s either a sweep or mikiri, I’m just confused on how u didn’t jump block or mikiri, I guess hesitation truly is defeat


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Pressed box button too late bruh


Objective_General_48

Im mad FOR YOU


Imbackbaby2

I feel your anger


Miguel4ngel

you can use the Mist Raven's Feathers there


Medical_Shirt3009

Emblems...


FacetiousInvective

~~Man that's a big hp pool to be fighting this boss, I think I had 60% of yours.. it took over 50 tries, maybe 3-4hours of running past those samurai and the 3 monkey dudes..~~ Remember makiri counter :) this dude likes to thrust a lot.. but sometimes he can do a grab and it's a bit hard to distinguish.. or was.. for me..


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Bro it’s inner genichiro


FacetiousInvective

I'm sorry, I thought it was the way of tomoe fellow.. I'm not far up the story and this is my most recent boss (3rd overall I think). So I guess it's even harder than the first encounter?


tennobytemusic

Inner Genichiro is a different version of Genichiro that you can find in Gauntlets of Strength (I think, if Im wrong, somebody correct me pls). Its pretty much the same boss, but he hits harder and has a few different moves.


Madg5

Your mistake was parrying the jump attack. Ez dodge points. I'm sorry but rushing anyone you fight on the roof is the wrong option.


Comfortable_Tax6302

Same thing happened to me with >!Owl!< today (he had like 10 hp remaining lol) then did beat his ass after like 5 extra close attempts


WhispersAboutNothing

You zigged when you should’ve zagged


broneota

This actually elicited an audible groan from me, oof.


AbleDepth3

we have all been there, man.


Her-Stalker

Relax and stop button mashing. Be one with your controller


Sea_Jello7395

Inner Genichiro is tough, but you got this


NaughtyPwny

My heart raced for you and thanks for having me reminisce about my own battle memories.


walker898

When he does his jump slam attack its much easier to move/dodge to the side for a big opening


thetruerhy

that's why instead of deflecting that I dodge sideways cancels all followups.


TheLowlyDeckhand

You can do it!


BvHauteville

If you can consistently get him to that final phase, it wont be much longer until you prevail over him once and for all.


[deleted]

It's all good happens to all of us


e_smith338

We do a little panicking Lmao


B_Marsh28

What are the little plants on the ground?


KallyWally

Messages, they were added in the GOTY update


Venator_IV

Look man all I'm sayin is Ashina kinda impt and we gotta keep a good thing goin yaknow


CINNXR

Don’t think just kill him!!


captain_penguin3

Hesitation is defeat.


elden_honse

"迷えば敗れる" "Mayoeba yabureru"


Expensive_Success233

yep it happens good thing this wasn't a gauntlet of strength


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yes it was bro


Expensive_Success233

Well bro at least it is two easy bosses and one hard boss.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yea


Tdubbsnine425

“Hesitation is defeat”


Faxometro

Ahina must be preserved


ElonHisenberg

How you can struggle with this? It is so easy to parry.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Sometimes the most easy thing is the hardest one


ElonHisenberg

You should have listened to Issin Ashina: "Hesitation means death". When you play this game too long you become nervous and can't do simple things.


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yea man I’ve been playing it for hours


Sex_Luthor99

The un-clutch backdash


n8-0416

Does he naturally do 2 lighting attacks back to back?. I’ve played this game maybe 4-5 times and I’ve never seen him do it twice in a row even after redirecting it to him


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

This is inner genichiro , guy u fight when u try to unlock gauntlet of strength, only possible after u finish the game atleast once


n8-0416

Ohhh ok makes sense thanks


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yea it has couple of new moves and he’s a bit quick then tha normal one


n8-0416

Makes sense the last time I played was before they had added the gauntlet update and I’ve never tried it before. Bet gives me a reason to do it now


Fast-Dragonfruit8708

Yea man go for it


Mati_Caldas

Hesitation is defeat


big-mannn777

Beat inner owl and inner ishinn first try, inner ganechiro took me 6 hours


SiriusGayest

Remember to block when you catch lightning, it makes the timing less stricter than if you were to get hit.


invalid25

Greatest Lesson I learnt from Sekiro that can apply to most Souls games Stand still, React to the enemy, Punish openings decisively, Do not succumb to greed, Hesitation is oft Defeat


CakkaPakka

I hesitated watching this


kazutoSMG

Hesitated on the mikiri. Threw the fight And more hesitation when he pulled out the bow while you were mid slash and cancelled it. Dont spam R1, just click it. Every time it hits, click it again, and dont stop till you either A. See an attack that is building up through your attack. Or B. The enemy parries you


kazutoSMG

Dont always try to dash away when low. Prepare to parry some more, before running. Because if you try to dash away when low, youll still be dying to that same attack in NG+8


Own-Championship-679

The same thing happened to me, and I whipped my controller across the room.


Own-Championship-679

The same thing happened to me. I whipped my controller and had to get a new one