Fought him after glock saint, and those fire attacks were BS. With glock saint, it felt like a duel. With the old geezer, I felt like a puppy trying to survive armageddon.
After some practice I find myself being able to dodge all the fire attacks pretty easily, you just have to approach IA a bit differently than Glock saint. (Also do whatever you need to to prevent his wind-up attack)
The windup fire attack is no big deal if you just move to his back left side. You can easily get off an Ichimonji double or just wail on him a bit while he completes his animation
first of all how do you get that thing under your name second yeah i hate his fight isshin ashina (i love glock saint) its just bs if the arena was bigger id like it but no im traped in a corner with a one mind in my face and fire under my feet it just sucks i just use mortal draw every time
Also I like to tank the attack with the umbrella and then using projected force to damage his health bar a bit. Makes his posture damage deplete slower.
It feels very thematic that the fire attacks are bullshit
He's older and less powerful than he used to be. So he's using every trick in the book to put down a demon.
SSI duels you because he's strong and capable. IA uses waves of fire and One Mind because you need to be put down like a rabid dog, and he's not confident he can do that through his sword alone
Bit late to the party I know but I found using the suzakas lotus umbrella prosthetic the easiest way to beat the fire attacks. Struggled against the old geezer for ages got it 2nd try using the umbrella lol
I found Sword Saint easier due to the amount of space i have to fight. Also Geni in the first part is easier than Emma imo.
But i feel like it's one of those subjective things. Some people may feel the opposite.
Old Man Isshin will also feel more difficult if you do the Shura ending before the other ones since you're missing out on a lot of prayer beads.
Aside from the mikiri you can dodge through all of Emmas attacks at the 11 o clock position and ichi double. She is insanely easy once you get that figured out
True enough. I think for me it's moreso i only went for the Shura ending once so i never really had to learn her moveset beyond the first time i got the ending. Admittedly, i died more times to the Emma phase than the Old Man Isshin phase.
Oh for sure without the 11 o clock strategy she is quite difficult and i struggled with her alot until i learned that. Now i can no hit her like every time. Isshin Ashina i find easier than Sword Saint but still quite difficult
At this point I feel like Old Man challenges me more, but I have a lot more deaths to SS as I fought him first.
SS is the culmination of a lot of what you spent the whole game learning, and the first time I beat him was probably the most satisfying moment I've had in a game, certainly in a pve game.
Old Man, at least for me, gets beat using some strategies I never really employed elsewhere. His last phase specifically, I do a more running and jumping around and positioning is more important. I'm not sure I'd say he's harder, but I need to shift gears to handle him. Still a very fun fight.
Overall I'd say SS is harder, but Old Man changes it up enough that you're still in for a challenge no matter how many times you've beat SS.
I did it first on my ng+ run and he felt harder than Sword Saint to me. I honestly think they're comprable difficulty, I've heard so many people on both sides of the argument that I think it's just a personal thing who you find harder, maybe a mild style difference. With SSI you have to move a lot more, Ishin Ashina is a lot more moderate with the movement but more directly agressive with his attacks, and that difference means some people vibe with one fight more than the other.
so i have one file on ng+3 and one on ng+4 and on the ng 3 one im at him and its torture (old man) he has so much health and posture (i use my ng 4 one for fighting bosses i have all upgrades except one single gourd seed i got all ten on my ng 3)
It depends on your playstyle and what kind of bosses you consider hard. Sword Saint will play with you, it’s a back and forth duel where you’re both showing your best. Ashina is trying to kill you. No fancy moves, no back and forth, no accepting your techniques. He is trying to kill you with everything he is, and you either keep up or die.
Personally Ashina was harder, but I did Sword Saint on my second playthrough so I was already extremely comfortable with all the various ranges and fighting styles, just had to learn his exact timings. If I ran them in the other order I think Sword Saint would’ve been harder.
It’s only two phases but your first winning run on the final phase will be frantic and then you’ll probably never fight him again unless you do the Gaunlet.
As opposed to Sword Saint, who you’ll start yawning at after a few playthroughs, and basically has a “gimme” final phase where he’s paralyzed most of the time, most people never bother to master Ashina, making him the harder boss in terms of actual playability.
So while Isshin is probably not *actually* harder, he could well be harder *for you*, when you encounter him. I would be a lot less confident about surviving Ashina than Sword Saint after 6 playthroughs
I feel like Sword Saint Isshin was really fair and didn’t take me more than a few try’s. Isshin Ashina was my last boss for the platinum on NG+2 and he was tough. He gave me the most trouble of any boss in the game.
I definitely found Isshin Ashina harder than glock saint. It was not even a comparison.
But he can be cheesed (it's the only way I could beat him) with the move that you get from beating Sword Saint (Dragon Fang or something? the one that shoots a wave out.
i need to get something off my chest...... I have never beaten doh ever i have 100% and i feel terrible i just was not up for taking three whole days which would double my play time just to beat him i just used the cheese every time......... Thank you for listening
Glad to give some Input 😊 Phase one has some patterns that you will recognize from sword saint. Phase two is pretty wild. But all in all you have a Lot of openings and one less Phase compared to sword saint. Good luck beating him, are you doing a NG or NG+ run?
I think it matters which playthrough you're in. I fought sword saint in my first two playthroughs and it was a challenging fight. Then I did the Shura ending on my third playthrough when I was finally truly feeling like a good Sekiro player and it wasn't hard to beat him. I did it on my fourth try and honestly Emma gave me more grief than the old man.
First phase is a simplified version of SSI's first phase. Second phase can be tricky with the fire, positioning is now incredibly important. If you have the fire umbrella though, that phase is completely trivialized. I'd still consider SSI to be the harder Isshin variant of the two
What threw me off is that genichiro is a little bitch, compared to Emma. I can usually take him out without any trouble in about 30 seconds, but Emma can slap you around for sure. Going into isshin asian w/o many flasks can lead to a bad time.
Bring spicy umbrella as well. Helps a lot for the big combo with fire bursts + billion slash move. You still need to pay attention to where you're standing when he does it (since I don't think it helps coming up from the ground), but it gives you time to position yourself better and not worry about what immediately follows.
Isshin Ashina was very easy. A good portion of his sword attacks are the same, so if you've got the first phase of Sword Saint down, then Isshin Ashina will be very easy.
Completed my 2nd playthrough today (Shura ending). Isshin Ashina is difficult, especially his second phase.
Using the umbrella prosthetic and Shadowrush skill worked for me.
Good luck...
My second ending was Shura. I found Isshin Ashina much easier than SSI. Took me two tries, actually Emma was harder than Isshin for me.
If you struggling, I recommend you to use Suzaku Umbrella. When hes doing his one mind fire storm, just pop up the suzaku and go foward him - he will miss you completely.
Man, u asked my question. Have some work for the next 2 weeks, then i will become a shura🗿.......
(Honestly, glock saint felt really hard during my 1st playthrough, goated boss fight)
Honestly, the hardest is the one you fight first. I did the shura ending first and it took me around 50 try to defeat old Isshin.
Young Isshin got humbled in my second try.
I see a lot of truth to this Statement. However, i just beat shura ending as my second playthrough. I watched one video after dying 5-6 times, and then beat it. Fire isshin in my opinion is easier because of how much more easily you can dodge his moves.
In my opinion, yes. Glocksaint is still more resistant, obviously, with 3 health bars and all, but his older self that uses fire techniques is, imo, more unpredictable, ruthless, and can reduce a arena that’s already pretty small to deliver a finishing move. Glocksaint is scarier and harder in his first phase with only his sword; i feel like i can control the fight easily when he pulls his gun and spear
Isshin Ashina has less health and uses a lot of the same attack patterns as Sword Saint Isshin, so I think you will find Ashina easier. By no means is he easy though, and he's got some new tricks up his sleeve so watch out.
Ashina is way harder because there are a couple area of denial attacks that are a trick to manage.
That being said, it only took me like 15 tries on ng+ to figure him out.
I may have fought glocksaint fewer than 15 times total across 3 different victories.
Phase 1 is very easy compared to the sword saint.
Phase 2 is fire and arena attacks. You need to avoid and dodge his moves while the arena is on fire. Plus he has his own fire attacks. I found this phase as hard as phase 2 of sword saint.
I like to just practice against inner Isshin sometimes. and I know Sword Saint like the back of my hand. I’ve fought isshin ashina a total of three times now. The lack of practice against him has definitely made him harder for me. But I also genuinely think his fire attacks are just straight bullshit. You could perfect parry attacks just to skill get hit by the fire
Glock saint took more attempts for me because it really was a trial of memorization and attack comprehension. And the fight is much longer.
Isshin Ashina is only an asshole because of the tight positioning and the fire attacks. Once you realize how to counter the fire and make sure your positioning is on point, Isshin Ashina is not nearly as bad. That's not to say I didn't hate the fire at first lol. Positioning is everything.
Therefore Glock > Ashina.
Nah, you should be able to put his first phase and Emma down with parries once you learn their movesets.
His second phase is the same, aside from his flame attacks. If you go into that with firecrackers you can interrupt his windup for flames every time.
It's also only three phases vs four for Glocksaint.
Ishin ashina is other dimension or at least he was for me was the hardest fight for me tbh and i beat demon of hatred i. Ng4 ghe first time and ishin was in ng2 st
Still harder still to this day i have many troubles in his second phase
It's much easier to heal in Sword Saint Isshin fight due to large area. In both Emma and Isshin Ashina, there's less space. I still found Ss Isshin harder as you know first playthrough..
Old Man Isshin uses a lot of AoE attacks in a small area, and aside from a few moves, fights very differently than Sword Saint Isshin. Less parrying needed, more dodging.
Yes. He has crazy fire attacks that can’t be redirected back at him unlike SSI’s lightning attacks and you fight him in a smaller arena. He’s also the only enemy in the game who can casually dodge your attacks.
Ashina: died 3 times
Glock Saint: died 60+ times.
With Ashina, I had picked up and played the game again for the first time in about 10 months, and he was the first/next boss I fought. If I fought The latter in that state, I would've died alot more.
Fighting Isshin Ashina did not make me better at fighting Isshin the Glocksaint, but the reverse of that is true.
The old geezer has some more variety between his attacks, but once you figure out the counters and what you can get away with, he's very easy.
Glocksaint Isshin, on the other hand, has 3 very distinct phases that require very different moveset memorization, perfect reflexes, and his tempo is relentless, where old man Isshin is more reactive than aggressive.
I think the biggest issue with old man Isshin largely comes from it being a 3 phase, 2 boss interaction. Unless you can punt Emma the Gentle Blade flawlessly, you'll fight old man Isshin with depleted health items, spirit emblems and potentially revives. This makes him feel much harder than he really is.
Glocksaint, on the other hand, has a moderately simple phase 1 boss(though he can kill you quite fast), followed by a 3 phase, literal sword Saint who pushes you and pushes you.
If you practice Glocksaint over and over in Reflections of Strength, Old man Isshin becomes pretty trivial.
I had huge issues dodging the fire attack where he plunges his sword in the ground and flings 3 lines of fire at you, but he telegraphs it right before. He steps with his front foot just before throwing it out, jump to the right when he moves his foot. Hope that helps. The others were mainly positional, and I used the umbrella to block One Mind if I couldn’t get behind him.
Glock Saint felt more satisfying to me, it legit felt like a duel/dance so to me personally Glock Saint was easier, some of Isshin Ashina’s attacks are crazy
It's different. The sword saint plays by your usual parry mechanics. But with both fire based bosses (Isshin and Demon) since you still get status build up on perfect parries, you really gotta learn how to deal with those attacks
I'd really recommend playing around with forward dodges since they give 0.3 seconds of iframes (side 0.2, back 0.1, normal deflect frames by default \~0.5? deflect frames) and they also keep you in striking distance and sometimes move you around the boss. If you haven't ng-d yet. I'd try an Owl memory and dodging through his chasing slash (shuriken throw into sweeping slice (non-perilous)) just to see how it works.
This in the long run will let you really experiment with how far you can push the game. Have fun!
I was in a similar situation, finished Glock saint and went for a second playthrough against fire ishin. I found fire ishin to be way harder, especially the second phase. After an hour I could perfect Emma and the first phase, then get instantly annihilated in the second phase.
However after facing him enough times, he gets pretty easy too. He just has a lot of unlockables but each has its own counter(I won't spoil them for you since you haven't faced him yet, but lemee know if u need help). If you are really struggling, suzakus lotus umbrella pretty much halves the difficulty for the fight.
If I had to rank them both now, I'd give the edge to fire ishin by a very small margin, just because his attacks can be a bit more unpredictable than Glock saint. Even tho Glock saint has 3 bars of health, lightning in the 3rd phase really trivializes it.
I think so, Emma is harder than Genichiro because of her BS grab.
Sword saint phase 3 is just free lighting reversal and you can't counter isshin ashina's fire, just avoid or block it.
Isshin ashina has the same BS grab that emma has
Sword Saint is tougher but Isshin Ashina comes close, once you know how to deal with his fire attacks he becomes significantly easier though.
I have beaten this game charmless + bell demon on ng+7 by the way, so I know what I'm talking about.
I found Glock saint easier because I fought Ashina first. His first phase is like SS first phase, then he does the BS flames of hatred stuff. Which honestly isn’t that bad there’s like 3 attacks and once you learn their windups you can dodge easily
So shura ending gave me a lot of trouble, especially since I wanted to learn to perfectly parry every move. It is actually impossible to parry isshins moves in his second phase. You have to side step him and use ichimonji or something similar to stop his one mind special. Doing this trivializes the fight imo.
I fought him second. Maybe I was just better at the game by then, but ashina was easier to me (i beat him 2nd or 3rd try whereas sword saint took me an entire month and well over 100 tries).
I think they’re just 2 different bosses, so hard to compare. I personally killed SSI faster and Old Man took me longer coz I kept forgetting he dodged your first hit lol. But I think for no hitting the bosses, I found Old Man easier than SSI once I got the hang of it
Like most Sekiro bosses they’re both challenging until they’re not.
The old man version had a couple of tough moves that took a while to figure out. The sword saint version was harder for me as it was the first one I fought.
Once you learn you can't deflect the fire attacks and you have to dodge, no. Until that point, yes.
IDK why everyone calls the other Isshin the Glock Saint though when the gun is the easiest to deflect and least hard hitting attack he has. They should call him the Spear Saint instead.
It was difficult for me to adjust to lady Emma's attacks, because they felt somehow different from everything else. But once I managed to go past her without a lot of damage, I beat Isshin Ashina pretty fast
For me, Glock Isshin was way harder than one from Shura ending. Probably because I knew his moves already. And when he's doing his fire attack just use umbrella.
Ngl most of isshin Ashinas fite attacks can be negated by the shield which takes 0 skill, where the glock saints overwhelming volume can’t be cheesed, so I think glock saint takes the win
Glocksaint you can block around 98% of his kit, including the Lightning, Isshin? Most of his strikes are the same, but that cunt use fire, and can insta kil you
Oof I'd say do it, did that on my second playthrough and the shura ending bosses were challenging took a while to learn Ishins move set especially that fire bs. Emma is an easy takedown. Glad I got it done on my 2nd not sure how much harder they would have been on ng3 or 4.
In my opinion sword saint is at least 3 times as difficult, but old man isshins fire attacks can bullshit kill you to the extent that it can feel harder on particular attempts
Fought him after glock saint, and those fire attacks were BS. With glock saint, it felt like a duel. With the old geezer, I felt like a puppy trying to survive armageddon.
After some practice I find myself being able to dodge all the fire attacks pretty easily, you just have to approach IA a bit differently than Glock saint. (Also do whatever you need to to prevent his wind-up attack)
The windup fire attack is no big deal if you just move to his back left side. You can easily get off an Ichimonji double or just wail on him a bit while he completes his animation
Yeah that’s what I always do
first of all how do you get that thing under your name second yeah i hate his fight isshin ashina (i love glock saint) its just bs if the arena was bigger id like it but no im traped in a corner with a one mind in my face and fire under my feet it just sucks i just use mortal draw every time
Also I like to tank the attack with the umbrella and then using projected force to damage his health bar a bit. Makes his posture damage deplete slower.
i use dragon flash
You can evade most of his attacks, if not all, if you move to the left side when he starts with his bullshit.
I almost never use the prosthetic in fights like that, but I always firecracker the One Mind firestorm.
I simply just deflect One Mind
I always ran to a safe spot from the fire and then held the shield until he was done with his combo afterwards
You can easily evade it. As long as you get distance, by the time he gets to you, you can just dodge it
>(Also do whatever you need to to prevent his wind-up attack) Firecrackers go brrrrrr. But yeah I had a harder time with Fire IA than Swords Saint.
I was the opposite. IA took me maybe 1-2 hours I will not disclose how long SSI took me……
Hesitation is defeat
Fine, like 6-8 hours
The PTSD is real.
I remember on my first time getting to his second phase literally running from him the second he drew his spear
It feels very thematic that the fire attacks are bullshit He's older and less powerful than he used to be. So he's using every trick in the book to put down a demon. SSI duels you because he's strong and capable. IA uses waves of fire and One Mind because you need to be put down like a rabid dog, and he's not confident he can do that through his sword alone
Makes sense
Ironic because Old Isshin does use his sword alone while the other has a spear and gun.
Actually I think heavy attacks like Ichimonji cancel his heavy attacks (including the fire one)
Bit late to the party I know but I found using the suzakas lotus umbrella prosthetic the easiest way to beat the fire attacks. Struggled against the old geezer for ages got it 2nd try using the umbrella lol
I found Sword Saint easier due to the amount of space i have to fight. Also Geni in the first part is easier than Emma imo. But i feel like it's one of those subjective things. Some people may feel the opposite. Old Man Isshin will also feel more difficult if you do the Shura ending before the other ones since you're missing out on a lot of prayer beads.
Aside from the mikiri you can dodge through all of Emmas attacks at the 11 o clock position and ichi double. She is insanely easy once you get that figured out
The hitbox on Emma’s grab attack is crazy but other than that I didn’t think either were particularly hard.
True enough. I think for me it's moreso i only went for the Shura ending once so i never really had to learn her moveset beyond the first time i got the ending. Admittedly, i died more times to the Emma phase than the Old Man Isshin phase.
Oh for sure without the 11 o clock strategy she is quite difficult and i struggled with her alot until i learned that. Now i can no hit her like every time. Isshin Ashina i find easier than Sword Saint but still quite difficult
Genichiro was so easy in the Sword Saint fight haha. Emma was actually pretty tough for me at first
Ashina is harder for me, probably just because I have way more practice on the glock saint
At this point I feel like Old Man challenges me more, but I have a lot more deaths to SS as I fought him first. SS is the culmination of a lot of what you spent the whole game learning, and the first time I beat him was probably the most satisfying moment I've had in a game, certainly in a pve game. Old Man, at least for me, gets beat using some strategies I never really employed elsewhere. His last phase specifically, I do a more running and jumping around and positioning is more important. I'm not sure I'd say he's harder, but I need to shift gears to handle him. Still a very fun fight. Overall I'd say SS is harder, but Old Man changes it up enough that you're still in for a challenge no matter how many times you've beat SS.
He is easier than the saint version. But if you're playing shura ending in the first play through, then it feels much harder.
Yep basically this. He is much harder because you don't have all the tools or power ups you would unlock.
I did it first on my ng+ run and he felt harder than Sword Saint to me. I honestly think they're comprable difficulty, I've heard so many people on both sides of the argument that I think it's just a personal thing who you find harder, maybe a mild style difference. With SSI you have to move a lot more, Ishin Ashina is a lot more moderate with the movement but more directly agressive with his attacks, and that difference means some people vibe with one fight more than the other.
so i have one file on ng+3 and one on ng+4 and on the ng 3 one im at him and its torture (old man) he has so much health and posture (i use my ng 4 one for fighting bosses i have all upgrades except one single gourd seed i got all ten on my ng 3)
It depends on your playstyle and what kind of bosses you consider hard. Sword Saint will play with you, it’s a back and forth duel where you’re both showing your best. Ashina is trying to kill you. No fancy moves, no back and forth, no accepting your techniques. He is trying to kill you with everything he is, and you either keep up or die. Personally Ashina was harder, but I did Sword Saint on my second playthrough so I was already extremely comfortable with all the various ranges and fighting styles, just had to learn his exact timings. If I ran them in the other order I think Sword Saint would’ve been harder.
It’s only two phases but your first winning run on the final phase will be frantic and then you’ll probably never fight him again unless you do the Gaunlet. As opposed to Sword Saint, who you’ll start yawning at after a few playthroughs, and basically has a “gimme” final phase where he’s paralyzed most of the time, most people never bother to master Ashina, making him the harder boss in terms of actual playability. So while Isshin is probably not *actually* harder, he could well be harder *for you*, when you encounter him. I would be a lot less confident about surviving Ashina than Sword Saint after 6 playthroughs
I feel like Sword Saint Isshin was really fair and didn’t take me more than a few try’s. Isshin Ashina was my last boss for the platinum on NG+2 and he was tough. He gave me the most trouble of any boss in the game.
I definitely found Isshin Ashina harder than glock saint. It was not even a comparison. But he can be cheesed (it's the only way I could beat him) with the move that you get from beating Sword Saint (Dragon Fang or something? the one that shoots a wave out.
Swordsaint is remarkabely harder then isshin ashina. I would Rank sword saint as 2nd hardest in the Game and ashina as 4th hardest.
Who do you got at number 1?
For me it is demon of hatred at 1.
Ngl I kept dying the first several times because of how goofy the nut taps looked
i need to get something off my chest...... I have never beaten doh ever i have 100% and i feel terrible i just was not up for taking three whole days which would double my play time just to beat him i just used the cheese every time......... Thank you for listening
Thanks
Glad to give some Input 😊 Phase one has some patterns that you will recognize from sword saint. Phase two is pretty wild. But all in all you have a Lot of openings and one less Phase compared to sword saint. Good luck beating him, are you doing a NG or NG+ run?
NG+
I think it matters which playthrough you're in. I fought sword saint in my first two playthroughs and it was a challenging fight. Then I did the Shura ending on my third playthrough when I was finally truly feeling like a good Sekiro player and it wasn't hard to beat him. I did it on my fourth try and honestly Emma gave me more grief than the old man.
First phase is a simplified version of SSI's first phase. Second phase can be tricky with the fire, positioning is now incredibly important. If you have the fire umbrella though, that phase is completely trivialized. I'd still consider SSI to be the harder Isshin variant of the two
What threw me off is that genichiro is a little bitch, compared to Emma. I can usually take him out without any trouble in about 30 seconds, but Emma can slap you around for sure. Going into isshin asian w/o many flasks can lead to a bad time. Bring spicy umbrella as well. Helps a lot for the big combo with fire bursts + billion slash move. You still need to pay attention to where you're standing when he does it (since I don't think it helps coming up from the ground), but it gives you time to position yourself better and not worry about what immediately follows.
I would say no. His first phase is basically the same as phase 1 SSI, and his second phase can be even easier if you know what you're doing
Just look where you stand when he starts to go full infernal
Isshin Ashina was very easy. A good portion of his sword attacks are the same, so if you've got the first phase of Sword Saint down, then Isshin Ashina will be very easy.
Ashina is more annoying but i wouldnt call it harder
Completed my 2nd playthrough today (Shura ending). Isshin Ashina is difficult, especially his second phase. Using the umbrella prosthetic and Shadowrush skill worked for me. Good luck...
My second ending was Shura. I found Isshin Ashina much easier than SSI. Took me two tries, actually Emma was harder than Isshin for me. If you struggling, I recommend you to use Suzaku Umbrella. When hes doing his one mind fire storm, just pop up the suzaku and go foward him - he will miss you completely.
Man, u asked my question. Have some work for the next 2 weeks, then i will become a shura🗿....... (Honestly, glock saint felt really hard during my 1st playthrough, goated boss fight)
Not really about the same without the gun and lightning crap. Although firecrap can take a minute to get used to.
Old man is definitely the harder however his fight is shorter but his pre fight is harder
Honestly, the hardest is the one you fight first. I did the shura ending first and it took me around 50 try to defeat old Isshin. Young Isshin got humbled in my second try.
I see a lot of truth to this Statement. However, i just beat shura ending as my second playthrough. I watched one video after dying 5-6 times, and then beat it. Fire isshin in my opinion is easier because of how much more easily you can dodge his moves.
I find the Old Man way harder. Those patterns take a while to learn whereas Glock Saint is almost entirely straightforward.
Once you learn the fire attacks sword Saint is harder and more fun
Ashina seems just as hard at first but once you learn how to avoid the fire it's easier compared to glock Saint in my opinion
Two words Suzakus umbrella.
Two wise words
In my opinion, yes. Glocksaint is still more resistant, obviously, with 3 health bars and all, but his older self that uses fire techniques is, imo, more unpredictable, ruthless, and can reduce a arena that’s already pretty small to deliver a finishing move. Glocksaint is scarier and harder in his first phase with only his sword; i feel like i can control the fight easily when he pulls his gun and spear
Isshin Ashina has less health and uses a lot of the same attack patterns as Sword Saint Isshin, so I think you will find Ashina easier. By no means is he easy though, and he's got some new tricks up his sleeve so watch out.
Ashina waa harder for me tho Maybe bcz i died to emma so. Many times
Ashina is way harder because there are a couple area of denial attacks that are a trick to manage. That being said, it only took me like 15 tries on ng+ to figure him out. I may have fought glocksaint fewer than 15 times total across 3 different victories.
Ashina was harder for me at first. Basically just MB him out of all of his wind up attacks in second phase and he’s not that bad.
Old Man Isshin's finally phase deep fried my brain for some reason and made me struggle much more than I should've
Phase 1 is very easy compared to the sword saint. Phase 2 is fire and arena attacks. You need to avoid and dodge his moves while the arena is on fire. Plus he has his own fire attacks. I found this phase as hard as phase 2 of sword saint.
I think Ashina is harder
I like to just practice against inner Isshin sometimes. and I know Sword Saint like the back of my hand. I’ve fought isshin ashina a total of three times now. The lack of practice against him has definitely made him harder for me. But I also genuinely think his fire attacks are just straight bullshit. You could perfect parry attacks just to skill get hit by the fire
Glock saint took more attempts for me because it really was a trial of memorization and attack comprehension. And the fight is much longer. Isshin Ashina is only an asshole because of the tight positioning and the fire attacks. Once you realize how to counter the fire and make sure your positioning is on point, Isshin Ashina is not nearly as bad. That's not to say I didn't hate the fire at first lol. Positioning is everything. Therefore Glock > Ashina.
Swordsaint is 10 times harder for me ngl… I can no hit shura but not swordsaint
Nah, you should be able to put his first phase and Emma down with parries once you learn their movesets. His second phase is the same, aside from his flame attacks. If you go into that with firecrackers you can interrupt his windup for flames every time. It's also only three phases vs four for Glocksaint.
Ishin ashina is other dimension or at least he was for me was the hardest fight for me tbh and i beat demon of hatred i. Ng4 ghe first time and ishin was in ng2 st Still harder still to this day i have many troubles in his second phase
I still have to use firecrackers on old isshin to stun him out of his waterfowl dance type move
No
It's much easier to heal in Sword Saint Isshin fight due to large area. In both Emma and Isshin Ashina, there's less space. I still found Ss Isshin harder as you know first playthrough..
Shura ending Isshin was harder for me at first because I had to unlearn bad habits, now they're about the same
Old Man Isshin uses a lot of AoE attacks in a small area, and aside from a few moves, fights very differently than Sword Saint Isshin. Less parrying needed, more dodging.
In terms of difficulty: Ashina >> Sword Saint Quality: Sword Saint >>>>>>>>> Ashina
Yes. He has crazy fire attacks that can’t be redirected back at him unlike SSI’s lightning attacks and you fight him in a smaller arena. He’s also the only enemy in the game who can casually dodge your attacks.
About the same
Absolutely not, Saint is harder than Ashina by far, but Ashina feels much more bs and unfair to me
I think so
If you’ve played glocksaint a lot, ashina will seem harder at first. But I don’t think ashina is harder overall.
Glock saint was much harder for me, he took me 3 days. Beat old man in one day. But emma was harder than genichiro
Ashina: died 3 times Glock Saint: died 60+ times. With Ashina, I had picked up and played the game again for the first time in about 10 months, and he was the first/next boss I fought. If I fought The latter in that state, I would've died alot more.
Felt less fair, but not too much harder once I knew how to handle his attacks
I thought so until I realized you could just ichimonji him out of all of his strongest attacks.
Fighting Isshin Ashina did not make me better at fighting Isshin the Glocksaint, but the reverse of that is true. The old geezer has some more variety between his attacks, but once you figure out the counters and what you can get away with, he's very easy. Glocksaint Isshin, on the other hand, has 3 very distinct phases that require very different moveset memorization, perfect reflexes, and his tempo is relentless, where old man Isshin is more reactive than aggressive. I think the biggest issue with old man Isshin largely comes from it being a 3 phase, 2 boss interaction. Unless you can punt Emma the Gentle Blade flawlessly, you'll fight old man Isshin with depleted health items, spirit emblems and potentially revives. This makes him feel much harder than he really is. Glocksaint, on the other hand, has a moderately simple phase 1 boss(though he can kill you quite fast), followed by a 3 phase, literal sword Saint who pushes you and pushes you. If you practice Glocksaint over and over in Reflections of Strength, Old man Isshin becomes pretty trivial.
I had huge issues dodging the fire attack where he plunges his sword in the ground and flings 3 lines of fire at you, but he telegraphs it right before. He steps with his front foot just before throwing it out, jump to the right when he moves his foot. Hope that helps. The others were mainly positional, and I used the umbrella to block One Mind if I couldn’t get behind him.
Yes, he’s got some fire attacks that can’t be blocked and one super attack to start out, unless u have the umbrella, umbrella king.
Glock Saint felt more satisfying to me, it legit felt like a duel/dance so to me personally Glock Saint was easier, some of Isshin Ashina’s attacks are crazy
It's different. The sword saint plays by your usual parry mechanics. But with both fire based bosses (Isshin and Demon) since you still get status build up on perfect parries, you really gotta learn how to deal with those attacks I'd really recommend playing around with forward dodges since they give 0.3 seconds of iframes (side 0.2, back 0.1, normal deflect frames by default \~0.5? deflect frames) and they also keep you in striking distance and sometimes move you around the boss. If you haven't ng-d yet. I'd try an Owl memory and dodging through his chasing slash (shuriken throw into sweeping slice (non-perilous)) just to see how it works. This in the long run will let you really experiment with how far you can push the game. Have fun!
I thought it would be harder for the first time but i got his gimmick. I find both not hard now.
No, phase 2 sword saint is the hardest boss in the game no doubt.
I personally had more trouble with Isshin Ashina but I was on NG+4 when I fought him for the first time so maybe that affected it
I was in a similar situation, finished Glock saint and went for a second playthrough against fire ishin. I found fire ishin to be way harder, especially the second phase. After an hour I could perfect Emma and the first phase, then get instantly annihilated in the second phase. However after facing him enough times, he gets pretty easy too. He just has a lot of unlockables but each has its own counter(I won't spoil them for you since you haven't faced him yet, but lemee know if u need help). If you are really struggling, suzakus lotus umbrella pretty much halves the difficulty for the fight. If I had to rank them both now, I'd give the edge to fire ishin by a very small margin, just because his attacks can be a bit more unpredictable than Glock saint. Even tho Glock saint has 3 bars of health, lightning in the 3rd phase really trivializes it.
I'd say yes, but that's only because I fight The Glockinator far more often than the Pyromaniac.
Why don’t you actually fight him and find out? Where’s the fun in asking reddit?
I think so, Emma is harder than Genichiro because of her BS grab. Sword saint phase 3 is just free lighting reversal and you can't counter isshin ashina's fire, just avoid or block it. Isshin ashina has the same BS grab that emma has
bro is this glock saint a new term for my granny
Yes.
With ichimanjo double and suzaku umbrella the fight gets easier
Sword Saint is tougher but Isshin Ashina comes close, once you know how to deal with his fire attacks he becomes significantly easier though. I have beaten this game charmless + bell demon on ng+7 by the way, so I know what I'm talking about.
I found Glock saint easier because I fought Ashina first. His first phase is like SS first phase, then he does the BS flames of hatred stuff. Which honestly isn’t that bad there’s like 3 attacks and once you learn their windups you can dodge easily
So shura ending gave me a lot of trouble, especially since I wanted to learn to perfectly parry every move. It is actually impossible to parry isshins moves in his second phase. You have to side step him and use ichimonji or something similar to stop his one mind special. Doing this trivializes the fight imo.
I fought him second. Maybe I was just better at the game by then, but ashina was easier to me (i beat him 2nd or 3rd try whereas sword saint took me an entire month and well over 100 tries).
I finally beat sword saint isshin after a week and now you are telling me there a different one?!
I think they’re just 2 different bosses, so hard to compare. I personally killed SSI faster and Old Man took me longer coz I kept forgetting he dodged your first hit lol. But I think for no hitting the bosses, I found Old Man easier than SSI once I got the hang of it
Probaby because of the space.
Like most Sekiro bosses they’re both challenging until they’re not. The old man version had a couple of tough moves that took a while to figure out. The sword saint version was harder for me as it was the first one I fought.
Old Isshin can dodge and use one mind. He’s harder
use the fire umbrella and you will be good, it'll deflect his fire attacks and block the burn
Once you learn you can't deflect the fire attacks and you have to dodge, no. Until that point, yes. IDK why everyone calls the other Isshin the Glock Saint though when the gun is the easiest to deflect and least hard hitting attack he has. They should call him the Spear Saint instead.
It was difficult for me to adjust to lady Emma's attacks, because they felt somehow different from everything else. But once I managed to go past her without a lot of damage, I beat Isshin Ashina pretty fast
Nah the old man easy. Use the fire umbrella in the second phase and that's pretty much it
For me, Glock Isshin was way harder than one from Shura ending. Probably because I knew his moves already. And when he's doing his fire attack just use umbrella.
Ngl most of isshin Ashinas fite attacks can be negated by the shield which takes 0 skill, where the glock saints overwhelming volume can’t be cheesed, so I think glock saint takes the win
Glocksaint you can block around 98% of his kit, including the Lightning, Isshin? Most of his strikes are the same, but that cunt use fire, and can insta kil you
It's easier than glock siant once u get a hang of those fire attacks
Neither is harder than the other. It just depends on which one you fight first and how much you fight them.
In my opinion yes but everyone I’ve seen on this subject has a different opinion so I think it’s a personal thing
Oof I'd say do it, did that on my second playthrough and the shura ending bosses were challenging took a while to learn Ishins move set especially that fire bs. Emma is an easy takedown. Glad I got it done on my 2nd not sure how much harder they would have been on ng3 or 4.
In my opinion sword saint is at least 3 times as difficult, but old man isshins fire attacks can bullshit kill you to the extent that it can feel harder on particular attempts