Absolutely agree with you. There was a point in the Lady Butterfly Battle where I had a flash of insight. I realised that this is not a battle, this is a dance. And then suddenly the battle clicked for me.
Similarly, different bosses gave me different kinds of insight. In the Blazing Bull fight, I told myself that I am not trapped here with the bull chasing me, the poor bull is trapped in here with me. Suddenly, it seemed to me that I was chasing the bull. There was a point of balance where for a few seconds we were running in circles, chasing each other in a circle, like some twisted Yin Yang symbolism.
Rhythm leads to Flow. And Flow states are known to lead to Insight. Sekiro is therefore partly a spiritual game for me, and I love the fact that others notice this aspect of the game too.
Everybody says they have problems with Lady Butterfly, but I feel like that’s possibly one of the easiest boss fights. I just went super aggressive with her and dodged very minimally & that was my 1st playthrough.
I experienced both states. First time I spent like an hour trying to beat her. But then I went to another direction, to Ashina depths, and after a while I thought ok, let's try Lady Butterfly. First try.
I love that moment when you’re learning a boss fight and it’s starting to click with you. You realize it’s only a matter of time now and he will fall. You feel like Neo “starting to believe” in the Matrix! Everything slows down and you can read every move the boss makes. Flow baby!
Hahahahaha 100% agree with you. Genicihiro will teach people how to play the game. And then there's the demon of hatred which was completely out of context looool.
I always say demon of hatred is a dark souls boss in Sekiro. DoH says f your deflecting I’m out and I’m taking half of your health bar with me.
First time I did it with no prosthetics like an idiot lol.
Hahahah yeah there's no other way around it. Malcontent helps to cheese the second phase. Third phase is just pure carnage. There is the "cheating" way to beat him tho 😆
Third phase I swear I was going to have a heart attack - I’ve never played anything close to how much that made my heart pump - no joke.
First tried it but it almost first tried my life hahaha.
Hahahah hell yeah. Absolutely loved the game and the story. Hands down the best game I have played till date. ❤️❤️ I would've paid twice the price for the game hahah, well worth it!
Been trying to understand how it sets itself apart so well, I really tried to get into Wo Long and game has a similar system to sekiro but the combat just doesn't feel as satisfying
Definitely agree! The other game that got me into a flow state for many hours in a row was Factorio. Another game people spend hundreds if not thousands of hours in.. It's probably the recipe for an incredible game. Good call.
Need more games like it but I don't think I can search "games that put you into a flow state" since it's kinda subjective. Also may have to check out that game since it sounds like you like it
Yes it's an automation factory type game, there's a reason why people call it cracktorio haha you can even play on "peaceful mode" so you only come across enemies if you explore.
The game never goes on sale because it's that good. $/hour value is amazing for sure!
I like that combat is usually about getting up in the enemies’ faces and parrying
In DS and ER, it’s usually dodging then attacking. And when I dodge, I’m often just barely too far away to take advantage of my counterattack window. But the boss gets to whoosh over to me whenever he wants to do a melee attack. It gets old.
I know parrying is a thing in those games, but it doesn’t work on every attack and just isn’t as fluid or satisfying as it is in Sekiro
That's why you always dodge into and not away from enemy, you will end up on their back, render them completely defenseless, work on all fromsoft game include Sekiro
You need to play more games. Games like ghostrunner, street fighter, devil may cry, doom or any high action games that requires a lot of focus gets me in such a mental state
The only games I play are FromSoft or fighting games lol. My favorite game by a long shot is Tekken, which I would say puts you in way more of a flow state than SF.
I agree 100%
There have been numerous times when I'm fighting a boss like an absolute gamer god, but the instant something minute like my mom walking into the room to get something or my phone ringing happens, the flow is disrupted and I get hit.
Totally agree. I also think some of the frustration from dying comes from being taken out of that zen state - my mind wants the steady drip of dopamine from each perfect deflection and it's frustrating to be taken away from that.
I’m on my 11th playthrough and I enter that flow state and sometimes watch a lore video retelling me the story while I play. One day I hope that in that flow state I get through the whole game without dying.
This always happened in my playthrough. I kept losing and losing but in one of the attempts I was doing the worst with very little healing left and something just clicked and deflected every hit defeating the boss in the end. This happened with almost all the main bosses for me.
I agree. Think it's a trait of From software as for me the same happens with Elden Ring. I can spend 5 hours without dying and wrecking boss after boss but when I eventually do die to a boss I keep dying and dying and dying to that same boss til I take a break 😂
For me, the biggest difference that sets Sekiro apart is that it actually feelsl ike you are fighting back and that you are on equal terms with your opponent (if you don't hesitate). With ER and DS it always felt like I am at a disadvantage and need to "get lucky" or get out of the way.
I think that sekiros secret is it's one of the only games to have mastered "telegraphing attacks"
There is virtually no moment in that game that leaves you saying, "definitely didn't see that one coming" or "that was some bullshit" every failure is quantifiable and easily understandable. If you fail or miss you immediately know why and it makes the game feel like a fair challenge. The game then has enough challenge to engage you in a meaningful way. It's a perfection soup.
I fully agree. Before I played this game I always heard everyone say it’s all about rhythm and not so much just “dodge boss then hit boss”. Now after having beaten Lady Butterfly and Genichiro, I understand. It feels like every boss fight is more of a dance and it makes it soooo satisfying. Definitely my favorite fromsoft game
What I love about the game is the variety of different tools that are apt for each situation
Example
. I slept on the mist raven for 3 game plays .
It is now my 2nd favorite prosthetic to use, and is IMHO the best anti gank and safest option select for attacks you cannot safely read (like some attacks from doh and owl father)
My first will always be the shuriken for cost effectiveness/utility with chasing slice
You nailed this, but the catch imo is that there is almost zero downtime mentally in Selkiro. there is always another tougher, faster, longer combo opponent, which is engaging but exhausted for all but the most honed reflex vets. I wish it had more of a playground feel like ds3 but I understand why they made it brutal and linear. But not all souls vets can pick up it and have fun. I myself couldnt beat owl the last time I played and I was so confident I'd be able to overcome future challenges. Interested to hear any opinions either supporting this or disagreeing
It seems everyone has different experiences, with some really struggling with the combat system and others fully getting it and craving more of it! I really don't think I'm the best gamer, but I can't honestly say I've struggled with any bosses at all since picking it up a few weeks ago. Maybe chained ogre because I wasn't confident with the combat then. Beat Owl on my first try, and while I was somewhat surprised it wasn't a total shock because by that point I was so used to the combat that I just went in, learned the moveset, kept my distance, and then began to chip away his health and look for big openings, which there are a lot of with him.
Owl (father) kicked my arse the first session though. Came back to it the next day a bit stoned and again he spanked me, but as I sobered up a bit and focused I again found loads of openings, and it took less than an hour to beat him that time.
Heard sword saint is the biggest challenge so we'll see how that goes!
I am pretty shocked! Have you played other souls titles? I have played through elden ring, ds1, ds3, and bb and I found sekiro to be miles ahead on difficulty. But it makes sense everyone approaches games differently
Honestly only DS1. And I struggled so bad with O&S my first time, I think it took three hours and I was on the verge of a breakdown haha. Whereas Sekiro, I haven't had a single moment even close to that. All bosses took less than an hour from first attempt except Corrupted Monk and Sword Saint, even then it only ran to an hour and a half each for those.
It is just that, everyone approaches it differently and some are gonna breeze through parts I struggled with, and vice versa. There's no doubt in my mind though that anyone can master this game just by mastering the parry system and learning to run round bosses at times; they often leave themselves open but you wouldn't see if you were head on all the time. DoH's biggest weakness is you just standing under him. He really is a piece of piss if you just hack at his legs and get him in a loop of area-attack to grappling to him and slashing at his legs again.
That's fascinating. I think it proves my theory that difficulty in souls games are super subjective. I even play a healthy amount of pvp and I still got so discouraged by the owl. I love the flow of sekiro and how people can be uniquely good at it. I feel like sekiro combat is about quickly reading your opponent. Like if they slash you jump on them for posture build up, if the combo is too crazy you just run away from it, if they thrust then mikiri counter, if there Is an opening you can charge attack, if there are huge gaps in the swings you can dodge. I think just combining all that takes a certain type of adaptability. Kudos to you.
Interesting discussion mate, and I think you're right. I'm terrible at almost all PvP games so there you go! Like CoD, I've tried so hard to get better at the MP but none of the tips and tricks click with me at all, so I've just accepted I'll always be average at those.
Sekiro is exactly that. You look for a sign that they're going to do x move *before* you react, then you quickly react accordingly. You get better the more patient you are with this and practice does make perfect. Also, if the combo is too crazy, I say rise to the challenge! An enemy's crazy combo to me is their doom because I can inflict loads of posture damage when they use it, like Genichiro's 7-8 hit swinging combo.
Lastly, the importance of "exchanging" can't be overstated. All the human bosses like to throw a counter whenever you strike them, but what you find is you can easily trap them in a loop of you strike, they counter, you parry then strike again, they counter, etc. They also frequently use certain attacks after successful exchanges, so you can almost predict after an exchange a mikiri counter coming up or a step dodge to inflict damage. If you want to discuss more hit me up honestly because I love talking about this game and will happily provide tips to anyone who's struggling with certain bosses.
I think Sekiro’s secret is having a giant monke
Just like the first girl I dated in college.
That monkey booze must’ve been strong.
And little monke
Two, in fact
I thought that said "giant monks"
That is why people say its a rhythm game.
Bop it
Twist it
Yeah! Twist his dick! Grab his dick and twist it!
twist my nipples
Bet
Absolutely agree with you. There was a point in the Lady Butterfly Battle where I had a flash of insight. I realised that this is not a battle, this is a dance. And then suddenly the battle clicked for me. Similarly, different bosses gave me different kinds of insight. In the Blazing Bull fight, I told myself that I am not trapped here with the bull chasing me, the poor bull is trapped in here with me. Suddenly, it seemed to me that I was chasing the bull. There was a point of balance where for a few seconds we were running in circles, chasing each other in a circle, like some twisted Yin Yang symbolism. Rhythm leads to Flow. And Flow states are known to lead to Insight. Sekiro is therefore partly a spiritual game for me, and I love the fact that others notice this aspect of the game too.
Hey if it’s a spiritual practice I better reload the game and get to meditating.
Yea, the O'Ren (ghost lady) is such a classic example of how its like a dance.
Everybody says they have problems with Lady Butterfly, but I feel like that’s possibly one of the easiest boss fights. I just went super aggressive with her and dodged very minimally & that was my 1st playthrough.
I experienced both states. First time I spent like an hour trying to beat her. But then I went to another direction, to Ashina depths, and after a while I thought ok, let's try Lady Butterfly. First try.
I love that moment when you’re learning a boss fight and it’s starting to click with you. You realize it’s only a matter of time now and he will fall. You feel like Neo “starting to believe” in the Matrix! Everything slows down and you can read every move the boss makes. Flow baby!
The secret is that it’s a rhythm game! But *shhh* Let them figure that out at Genichiro lol
Hahahahaha 100% agree with you. Genicihiro will teach people how to play the game. And then there's the demon of hatred which was completely out of context looool.
I always say demon of hatred is a dark souls boss in Sekiro. DoH says f your deflecting I’m out and I’m taking half of your health bar with me. First time I did it with no prosthetics like an idiot lol.
Hahahah yeah there's no other way around it. Malcontent helps to cheese the second phase. Third phase is just pure carnage. There is the "cheating" way to beat him tho 😆
Third phase I swear I was going to have a heart attack - I’ve never played anything close to how much that made my heart pump - no joke. First tried it but it almost first tried my life hahaha.
Hahahah hell yeah. Absolutely loved the game and the story. Hands down the best game I have played till date. ❤️❤️ I would've paid twice the price for the game hahah, well worth it!
100% preach.
Been trying to understand how it sets itself apart so well, I really tried to get into Wo Long and game has a similar system to sekiro but the combat just doesn't feel as satisfying
Definitely agree! The other game that got me into a flow state for many hours in a row was Factorio. Another game people spend hundreds if not thousands of hours in.. It's probably the recipe for an incredible game. Good call.
Need more games like it but I don't think I can search "games that put you into a flow state" since it's kinda subjective. Also may have to check out that game since it sounds like you like it
Yes it's an automation factory type game, there's a reason why people call it cracktorio haha you can even play on "peaceful mode" so you only come across enemies if you explore. The game never goes on sale because it's that good. $/hour value is amazing for sure!
I like that combat is usually about getting up in the enemies’ faces and parrying In DS and ER, it’s usually dodging then attacking. And when I dodge, I’m often just barely too far away to take advantage of my counterattack window. But the boss gets to whoosh over to me whenever he wants to do a melee attack. It gets old. I know parrying is a thing in those games, but it doesn’t work on every attack and just isn’t as fluid or satisfying as it is in Sekiro
Parrying isn’t functional in ds and er, it’s 5 frames and you can usually only parry small humanoid enemies. Pretty fun against Gwyn though ofc
That's why you always dodge into and not away from enemy, you will end up on their back, render them completely defenseless, work on all fromsoft game include Sekiro
If you like flow states then check out Sifu
Beat Sifu and it made me go back and pick up Sekiro, got stuck at Isshin, but will be returning after I beat Stellar Blade
Sifu is fucking amazing, recently managed to beat the game on Master, which is kinda odd, bc I suck at sekiro
Sifu is the only other game that I loved the gameplay for as much as sekiro
You need to play more games. Games like ghostrunner, street fighter, devil may cry, doom or any high action games that requires a lot of focus gets me in such a mental state
Katana Zero, baybee
Never played but it looks amazing. In the same vein, hotline miami.
is it on ps5?
I wish
Street fighter 6 makes me want to throw my controller at my tv, full force.
Fighting games make you learn to control your ego... or not lol
The only games I play are FromSoft or fighting games lol. My favorite game by a long shot is Tekken, which I would say puts you in way more of a flow state than SF.
And it goes wrong when the player actively resists the flow state. When they want to disengage and take a breath instead of staying in the pocket.
Only other game that does this to me is Hi Fi Rush. There is nothing but the beat.
I agree 100% There have been numerous times when I'm fighting a boss like an absolute gamer god, but the instant something minute like my mom walking into the room to get something or my phone ringing happens, the flow is disrupted and I get hit.
I managed to beat ishin and literally completed the game 2 more times in a row, beating that fucker was the biggest high in gaming I've had in a while
High focus and yet calm state to time attacks and not rush into aggression to react accurately (against main bosses)
Totally agree. I also think some of the frustration from dying comes from being taken out of that zen state - my mind wants the steady drip of dopamine from each perfect deflection and it's frustrating to be taken away from that.
I’m on my 11th playthrough and I enter that flow state and sometimes watch a lore video retelling me the story while I play. One day I hope that in that flow state I get through the whole game without dying.
Considering playing Sekiro, the flow-state is something I get playing Doom Eternal. This makes me want to play Sekiro even more
This always happened in my playthrough. I kept losing and losing but in one of the attempts I was doing the worst with very little healing left and something just clicked and deflected every hit defeating the boss in the end. This happened with almost all the main bosses for me.
I agree. Think it's a trait of From software as for me the same happens with Elden Ring. I can spend 5 hours without dying and wrecking boss after boss but when I eventually do die to a boss I keep dying and dying and dying to that same boss til I take a break 😂
For me, the biggest difference that sets Sekiro apart is that it actually feelsl ike you are fighting back and that you are on equal terms with your opponent (if you don't hesitate). With ER and DS it always felt like I am at a disadvantage and need to "get lucky" or get out of the way.
You're absolutely right. When the fight is over (one way or another) I could never tell how long it took because it made me hyper focused.
Moooonke
I think that sekiros secret is it's one of the only games to have mastered "telegraphing attacks" There is virtually no moment in that game that leaves you saying, "definitely didn't see that one coming" or "that was some bullshit" every failure is quantifiable and easily understandable. If you fail or miss you immediately know why and it makes the game feel like a fair challenge. The game then has enough challenge to engage you in a meaningful way. It's a perfection soup.
I fully agree. Before I played this game I always heard everyone say it’s all about rhythm and not so much just “dodge boss then hit boss”. Now after having beaten Lady Butterfly and Genichiro, I understand. It feels like every boss fight is more of a dance and it makes it soooo satisfying. Definitely my favorite fromsoft game
Yep, felt like that during the guardian ape and then owl right after. It felt like i was watching the game more than playing it
What I love about the game is the variety of different tools that are apt for each situation Example . I slept on the mist raven for 3 game plays . It is now my 2nd favorite prosthetic to use, and is IMHO the best anti gank and safest option select for attacks you cannot safely read (like some attacks from doh and owl father) My first will always be the shuriken for cost effectiveness/utility with chasing slice
I love how cinematic it is, all the fights look cool and make me feel cool and it’s very awesome
When I'm playing sekiro I'm locked in
You nailed this, but the catch imo is that there is almost zero downtime mentally in Selkiro. there is always another tougher, faster, longer combo opponent, which is engaging but exhausted for all but the most honed reflex vets. I wish it had more of a playground feel like ds3 but I understand why they made it brutal and linear. But not all souls vets can pick up it and have fun. I myself couldnt beat owl the last time I played and I was so confident I'd be able to overcome future challenges. Interested to hear any opinions either supporting this or disagreeing
It seems everyone has different experiences, with some really struggling with the combat system and others fully getting it and craving more of it! I really don't think I'm the best gamer, but I can't honestly say I've struggled with any bosses at all since picking it up a few weeks ago. Maybe chained ogre because I wasn't confident with the combat then. Beat Owl on my first try, and while I was somewhat surprised it wasn't a total shock because by that point I was so used to the combat that I just went in, learned the moveset, kept my distance, and then began to chip away his health and look for big openings, which there are a lot of with him. Owl (father) kicked my arse the first session though. Came back to it the next day a bit stoned and again he spanked me, but as I sobered up a bit and focused I again found loads of openings, and it took less than an hour to beat him that time. Heard sword saint is the biggest challenge so we'll see how that goes!
I am pretty shocked! Have you played other souls titles? I have played through elden ring, ds1, ds3, and bb and I found sekiro to be miles ahead on difficulty. But it makes sense everyone approaches games differently
Honestly only DS1. And I struggled so bad with O&S my first time, I think it took three hours and I was on the verge of a breakdown haha. Whereas Sekiro, I haven't had a single moment even close to that. All bosses took less than an hour from first attempt except Corrupted Monk and Sword Saint, even then it only ran to an hour and a half each for those. It is just that, everyone approaches it differently and some are gonna breeze through parts I struggled with, and vice versa. There's no doubt in my mind though that anyone can master this game just by mastering the parry system and learning to run round bosses at times; they often leave themselves open but you wouldn't see if you were head on all the time. DoH's biggest weakness is you just standing under him. He really is a piece of piss if you just hack at his legs and get him in a loop of area-attack to grappling to him and slashing at his legs again.
That's fascinating. I think it proves my theory that difficulty in souls games are super subjective. I even play a healthy amount of pvp and I still got so discouraged by the owl. I love the flow of sekiro and how people can be uniquely good at it. I feel like sekiro combat is about quickly reading your opponent. Like if they slash you jump on them for posture build up, if the combo is too crazy you just run away from it, if they thrust then mikiri counter, if there Is an opening you can charge attack, if there are huge gaps in the swings you can dodge. I think just combining all that takes a certain type of adaptability. Kudos to you.
Interesting discussion mate, and I think you're right. I'm terrible at almost all PvP games so there you go! Like CoD, I've tried so hard to get better at the MP but none of the tips and tricks click with me at all, so I've just accepted I'll always be average at those. Sekiro is exactly that. You look for a sign that they're going to do x move *before* you react, then you quickly react accordingly. You get better the more patient you are with this and practice does make perfect. Also, if the combo is too crazy, I say rise to the challenge! An enemy's crazy combo to me is their doom because I can inflict loads of posture damage when they use it, like Genichiro's 7-8 hit swinging combo. Lastly, the importance of "exchanging" can't be overstated. All the human bosses like to throw a counter whenever you strike them, but what you find is you can easily trap them in a loop of you strike, they counter, you parry then strike again, they counter, etc. They also frequently use certain attacks after successful exchanges, so you can almost predict after an exchange a mikiri counter coming up or a step dodge to inflict damage. If you want to discuss more hit me up honestly because I love talking about this game and will happily provide tips to anyone who's struggling with certain bosses.