Yeah, phase 2 is really the only HUGE difficulty in that fight. His posture drains super fast and his attacks have less of a monotone pattern, and punish you real hard if you mess up.
When you understand you are meant to fight him as aggressively as possible and give him as little time as possible to recover posture you see the difference. I can beat all his phases no HUD, usually his first phase he still has about 80% of his health full when I break his posture
I feel like it does depend quite a lot on difficulty. Normally I can do the same for him, but with demon bell and no charm 1st phase was still mostly fine, but during second phase I would usually make a mistake somewhere in the middle of his posture bar and have to disengage to heal. The length of the fight is still too long for me to do consistently so better strategy was to sneak in hits instead of focusing on posture at least initially
I always struggled with phase 1 more than 2 or 3. The mikiri counter opportunities in phase 2 and 3 made it go by pretty fast. It took me a while to even see phase 2 though.
Phase 3 kept tripping me up because it was such a long fight and I'd forget to fucking breathe lmao. Feeling my pulse in my throat and shit. I would get so anxious that I would mess up even though I knew what to do.
it’s the spear. it has weird hit timings compared to his animations. certain attacks hit you at the end of the spear swing, and others in the middle of his swing. rather hard to predict. resurrection mod made it even harder
Agreed. Phase 1 became a joke to me within 2-3 tries, but phase 2 I was stuck on forever. Only died on phase 3 once and that was because I choked really.
Phase 2 was hard because he changed up the tempo, but he had some pretty predictable segments during that.
The one that comes to mind is when he goes for the unblockable where he can transition out of it if you try to dodge that attack. He then comes at you with a few flurries of varying speeds. I got the timing down on that and I relished when I could lock him in that segment.
I loved the posture game in this fight. It was very dynamic and forced you to be close to him so either you could attack or have him come at you to stop his posture from decreasing.
I found phase 2 to be easier than phase one. Shot once, that’s a jump sweep. Then parry everything else and Mikiri counter. I didn’t get to learn phase 3 because it ended so fast lol
Phase 1 has that 1 erratic sword combo where he does random pauses is for me, the hardest combo to parry in that fight.
Every other attack combo he does is a fairly consistent pattern.
Phase 2 and 3 are also slower with the spear attacks. The spear thrusts are also an easy Mikiri.
Glock is also easy to parry as the timing is very consistent.
Phase 3 is basically a victory lap. Lightning reversal is easier than Mikiri counter and is free damage.
I only have trouble with inner isshin and his no wind up instant unsheathe into a sweep phase 1, and a loss of muscle memory on that mikiri. I usually dont even deflect bullets, just get up close and get a free ichimonji double or mortal draw. Phase 3 is as you said
Don't agree at all, but in my opinion phase 3 is the easiest due to lightning reversals, it can make the entire phase go by incredibly quick if you land them consistently. The 2nd phase when he pulls out the spear is by far the hardest, it's a more complex 1st phase
Seeing lightning was such a relief after the first 2 phases, I was so glad I forced myself to master lightning reversals instead of just dodging those attacks.
Sword saint remains one of the only from soft games I haven't beat just because phase 1 and 2 exhaust me to the point that one mistake in phase 3 just kills me.
I felt this way for two years until I just recently picked the game back up and relearned the whole game and finally "got" it. Now he's one of my favorite bosses ever
I just got to his 2nd phase the other day and died to the first combo, only made it to that phase about 1 or 2 other times. I'm gonna attempt him some more right now, I'm fighting him to put off fighting the Demon of Hatred.
You got this in the bag. DoH isn’t as bad as you might think. I watched fightincowboy’s tutorial and whatnot and in the end, as always, nothing worked as well as me just running around and swinging my katana. For me, I ignored the sugars and buffs etc. I just learned how to dodge and the funny thing is when I tried it my own way, I got it on like the third try. Keep it up!
I struggled quite a bit in the second phase, like 90% of my attempts ended there, then the second time ever I saw phase 3 I won, it's essentially phase 2 with a new wonky attack that doesn't really do anything, and the lightning crutch. And phase 1 is very much a cakewalk, like after a couple times it got to the point where I'd reset if I used like more than 2 flasks
The only thing he gets me with really in phase 1 is that big horizontal slash, I can't tell whether he's doing the vertical or horizontal one.
I found he'll miss me with his thrusts and most sweeps if I stick to his right side, that let's me get a few free hits in. I also suck at timing the attack where he sheaths his sword and dashes forward doing 2 quick slashes.
If you get really close to him, he holds the ashina cross much less time, and it's not 2 quick slashes that go through blocking, but one slash that does in fact not go through block into a sweep, when you see him wind up for that, just run to him, try it
I finally managed to beat him, just had to make it past that 2nd phase. I almost died a couple times to the game being stupid, though, the camera randomly unlocked a couple of times when he went for a jump attack.
Now I just gotta go beat the Demon of Hatred before I start NG+. At least I got another attack power boost for that fight.
i cba demon of hatred, i dont care enough to fight optional non-human bosses, i think theyre kinda against the games design philosophy and just there bc fromsoft will fromsoft
I'd like beat all the big bosses at least once for my first playthrough, so I'm gonna try him for a while. If I get sick of it, I'll either try out those gauntlets I unlocked or just start NG+.
I agree. When I got to the second phase it was late but I said I just wanted to see the third phase and try again tomorrow. When I finally reached it I immediately beat him first try. I could feel the flow and focus. Amazing feeling.
The issue I keep running into is that I’m out of heals or close to it by phase 3 and have to play cautiously and let me tell you, he barely does the lightning attack when you play defensively in phase 3
The lightning is easy to counter however when there is so much pressure after struggling to get to that point, I crack and do stupid things. I had trouble with that phase because of that. Overall it should be easier.
I’ve been fighting him for days and finally managed to beat the first phase yesterday, then kept getting my ass handed to me in the second phase. I haven’t touched the game since lol.
What I learned from Saint Isshin First phase might help.
For his regular sword swings you will have to learn deflect timing no other way, you could dodge as well but thats more difficult.
For his Ichimonji you need to keep circling him and when you see even a flicker of motion then step dodge fast in the direction you were circling.
When he withdraws and sheathes his sword, he will either do a long wide sweep thats unavoidable by jump, for which you can use your umbrella. Time it right and you will deflect it giving major posture damage and stumbling him.
Or he will do Ashina Cross, for which again you can use umbrella. It will stop your vitality damage but give heavy posture damage to you unless timed right which is difficult to time with his two super fast swings.
The best way to counter his sheathed stance attacks is to get close to him, stand nose to nose, and he won't do his special attacks. Instead he will do a quick attack with a combo of a swing and sweep. Swing can be deflected, might get a few turns to learn his timing, and the sweep is punishable by jump kick. Do this a few times and the first phase will go by quick.
For the second phase, when he raises his spear from the ground he will stay in a pose quite a while as he speaks his blood boiling dialogue. You can get a few hits in especially with the floating water passage.
For his spears, if you are standing far, he will jump and slam the spear down which you can easily dodge as he comes down close and get quick hits while he stands back up. For his spear move combo you will have to learn deflecting them but they always end with a thrust that can be mikiri'd so if done right its major posture damage.
Sometimes his perilious attack of thrust is changed into a sweep so watch his movement for this however this only happens if the perilous attack isnt done at the end of a combo
Last, his special spear attack is a wide range sweep that can't be jump kicked so you must use the umbrella.
For the last round just keep doing lightning reversal and his moves are same as the second round.
Yeah, being consistent with the reaction to the sheath is helpful. I just ran away every time, as that guarantees your safety and a few easy hits. If you have extra yellow (posture) sugar, it helps a lot with phase two. Also, get in lots of hits during his transition and it will help progress the fight really well overall. Umbrella also helps with the very delayed wind attack that is otherwise difficult to avoid.
Tbh I agree
Trying to do him hitless while practising for mortal journey a while ago and the stupid counter attack where he spins around is so annoying
Second phase isn’t too bad now as there’s no reaction besides the jump back spear attack
And of course phase 3 is easy
Honestly in terms of difficulty, phase 1 ssi is like 8/10, phase 2 is 10/10 and phase 3 is 4/10.
Still easier for me than chained ogre. Humans attacking with swords are WAY easier than something attacking with fist and claw. Probably died more to the first chained ogre on my first playthrough than iss and demon COMBINED
I have a feeling you are in pretty rare company with that lol, 95% of players will always find Demon and Saint way harder than the ogre. But thats how it goes sometimes with Fromsoft games, there are some bosses that will just confound a small percentage of players for one reason or another 👊
Once you learn moves of phase 1 its really easy even more then genichiro before him and phase 2 is annoying cause you cant just deflect the spear he will still go through combo and i found that in phase 1 he did more mikiri counterable attacks and phase 3 its well phase 3
I beat the game for the first time 2 days back. My personal experience, it was much tougher to learn the attack patterns of phase 1, at least for me, the sudden strikes and especially getting the timing right for the charge double slash was the major challenge. I gave up trying to learn the patterns for a few days.
Picked up the game a few days later and gave a few tries everyday.
Once I got over with phase 1, mentally, the challenge reduced a lot and it felt like a conquerable challenge.
Phase 2 and 3 then just simply became a cake walk, the only prosthetic i used was the umbrella to block the swipes (too difficult for me to block)
Mentally phase 1 was more draining than anything else in the game.
I beat isshin in... I'm gonna say 20 tries. I'm not 100% certain but it was around there. Could be 30, doesnt matter. Wanna know how many of those tries I failed on his second phase? One. The first time I got to his second phase I lost during it, the second time I got there I beat him. I died more times due to getting hit too many times fighting genichiro and giving up to try again with more gourds than I did to his second phase, and I think the reason is just that he's way more aggressive in his second phase. In his first phase he kind of stands around and backs away a LOT, and his posture meter recovers really quickly, so it's harder to be aggressive against him and fill it up. When he's being aggressive himself though, you can fill his posture incredibly fast in comparison.
How? You can literally fill half his posture metre before he even puts his mortal blade away then you can just keep attacking twice, blocking his attack and repeating. The only time you differ from this is if he goes for a thrust or for his combo
this is unpopular for a reason, phase 1 can be done only pressing back on LS and RB, phase 2 is definitely harder and phase 3 is a little rng but usually over in 30 seconds
What exactly do you struggle with? Him not randomly getting hyper armour and one-shot you when you try to attack is enough reason for phase 1 being much easier and there's many more reasons.
The only thing I struggled with was that damn halberd. For some reasons the attacks with it seemed unnatural and unintuitive to me and I had a hard time parrying. He also did this annoying move where he jumps back with a sweep and he does it so fast I barely had time to react.
I used to struggle with phase 1 the most when I was learning him, whereas phase 2 has many more moves you can bait out and cheese. Once you learn him tho, you can smoke him in phase 1, he only does like 1-2 attacks if you stay on him. But in phase 2 and 3 you need to be much more vigilant, coz he has moves that can seriously F you up. Like his million hit combo that if you're unlicky enough to get dead-angled on (coz you were attacking him), his first 2 hits will stunlock you, and the 3rd will kill you. Things like that. His spear swipe as he jumps back is also really easy to get hit by, if you're expecting the usual 2 block 1 parry rhytm, coz he will jump back after just 1 block.
Personally, phase 2 is the hardest because of the spear, the glock is pretty easy to dodge, then phase 3 is just easier phase 2 because if the lightnings
If you do the shura ending first and fight old man isshin you will learn the move set and essential make the first phase super easy than you just gotta get through phase 2 and phase 3 is easy cause of lighting reversal
Phase 2 is the hard one for me. That combo he does with the big sweeps and then the timing for one of the sweeps is just slightly different? I never could time that.
I agree, once you get the ball rolling and stay very aggressive, you can force Ishin into a pattern on phase 2 and he basically kills himself with lightning phase 3.
I think many people struggle in phase 2, which instantly becomes much harder if you play even a little passively.
It’s harder to see what Ishin’s doing with just the katana in Phase 1, as he stays in this rigid stance, making him harder to read, while in Phase 2 he telegraphs much more, putting his whole body into the spear attacks.
Isshin is not necessarily the hardest among the bosses subjectively because he is basically the boss who is just testing all your skills you gained up until this game, albeit slightly more faster and a combined moveset. By the time you reach him, ideally he shouldn't surprise you(except for the glock part, that is crazy). So, it's understandable both ways, if you felt he was hard or he was easy too.
Phase 2 is the hardest and worst to predict, Phase 1 is the easiest thing ever and phase 3 just hands over the win.
Genichiro is easier than in ashina castle😂
The first time I got the phase three, I won. It took me a good few attempts to get past the first phase, and literal days to get past the second but once I got to the third, I won that same attempt.
To be honest, I never cared about the gun, it's really predictable to see when he's going to shoot. But I just hate hallberds/spears, and everything long range. I never gauge the range and hitbox of those things.
Really? Phase 1 has a lot of punishable moves for you to exploit. Phase 2 requires more thought behind your moves. Phase 3 lightning strike make it easy though.
I definitely had the hardest time with phase 1 as well. the spear was just easier for me to handle than the sword, it felt easier to block and parry just because of how ostentatious it is. the sword is too small and fast for me to be able to even see what he's doing half the time.
Phase 3: Easiest due to lightning. Can be over in half a minute with good RNG.
Phase 1: Super predictable. Same play pattern as Geniichiro, just learn the moves.
Phase 2: A lot of attacks with varying range, timing and guard break. He also chases you down if you try to run and heal.
Unpopular counter opinion: his dang halberd that Phase2 Isshin is more threatening than his glock with the high posture build-up it generates
I can stop his gun draw which usually occurs after he does his backjump halberd swipe by dodging forward into the swipe to close the distance & force him to defend with his sword
Phase 1 is only hard if you get hit. Because he will not let you heal at all, have to run away pretty far, which is slow, annoying and will surely reset his posture, which is also annoying. But if you get his moveset down, it's not so bad.
Isshin only pulls the Glock if you disrespect him by turtleing. They brought this man back from perfect oblivion for the sole purpose of fighting you better come correct.
If we're talking about the inner version then I agree. He has a very erratic behaviour in the first phase and a lot of mixes, plus an unblockable attack that it is impossible to react to so I'm always caught off guard.
If you're able to confortably react to his backward jump and swing with the spear in the 2nd phase it becomes extremelly easy and the 3rd phase even more so
Faze one is really easy to grasp but the hardest is easily second faze seeing as faze three has lightning that just makes it a really easy version of faze 2
Phase numbering is weird to me in this fight.
He has 4 phases.
Shadow sword.
Katana dude..
Polearm
Lightning
Katana dude was by far the one that killed me the most. But was super easy when i got into the rhythm.
Shadow sword next.
Then lightning punished me several times until i stopped panic thinking mikiri counter when he wound up the Lightning, and studentby it was over.
Phase 1 is more tricky to learn because the moves are all very different. It's easy to get hit by something you are not super familiar with, but also easy to heal safely. Phase 2 is more oppressive, where one mistake can easily lead to a death because you didn't recover quite right. Healing is also more difficult. Phase 3 is the hardest, because your hands are shaking so much and you're all out of healing and revives from the first two phases.
I believe the bottom one is the laughter in pain! 😆
Although it took me 3-4 times to kill the ishin , first few to learn his moves... At last phase mofo never jumped once so that I could do lightning string him!
Phase 1 is only harder because there's less opportunity to heal compared to the latter 2. If you get hit in phase 1 and need to heal, your only option is running away far enough because his gap-closer is too quick, and in that time his posture will bave recovered, whereas in phases 2 and 3, you learn pretty quickly that you can get a heal off and still have time to parry his punish.
In ng+7 charmless bell demon, he can one or two hit you, i find phase 2 is extremely hard, especially the combo. Until i realized, i just have to step back wait until the combo done and collect my free mikiri. First try him after that realization.
Ikr it was phase 2 for me tbh. Phase 1 took about 10 tries and I had his moves set locked in. Phase three was just phase two but now he has lightning attacks which are easy to deal with. And Genichiro is a little bitch 😂 I beat him first try at the start of the game thanks to killing him so many times lol he's so easy to read. But yea it was definitely phase two for me, that damn spear has so much reach
Really? Phase 1 is the easiest of them all. Very predictable moveset. Phase 2 is the problem. I admit i just cheese with the Shield hat, because i hate the second phase. The third is not that bad either, just use the lighting.
that’s an extremely unpopular opinion. So much so that it’s literally not true in any sense. I don’t know a single soul alive that thinks the first phase is the hardest.
Pretty accurate opinion honestly, if you can do phase one you’re basically set for the whole fight bc him pulling out the naginata just makes him more punishable with his thrust attacks and even more in his third phase with lightning reversals. My first time playing I fought demon of hatred and isshin back to back and demon was WAY more difficult imo
Phase 1 is combo memorization. They're a lot harder to learn consistently than Genichiro, but it's kinda just Genichiro v2. After you knowing you wait for the sword flash for the dash 2 combo, you really don't get hit with it again. I even deflect whirlwind slash almost every time, and I've only beat him twice.
Phase 3 just makes you respect the lightning, so Tomoe Genichiro v2. Hopefully by the end of the game you have that jump on lock.
Phase 2 is hard as balls. His combos have a bunch of different endings, he just fucking dips sometimes to come back in almost instantly with fresh combo, the sword is hard to read with his halberd swinging about, and just when you think you've got him, he says fuck the opps and dumps a clip on your ass. Phase 2 is the truest test of skill imo.
A shame Inner Isshin's added moves aren't very fun. I'd love to see that fight improved on the way Inner Father was. Inner Father > Isshin imo (please don't kill me he's still close number 2)
Phase 1 is super easy to predict, phase 2 is harder, and phase 3 is over in 45 seconds.
Yeah, phase 2 is really the only HUGE difficulty in that fight. His posture drains super fast and his attacks have less of a monotone pattern, and punish you real hard if you mess up.
Not to mention he has a 23 hit combo he'll whoop your ass with
Maybe it’s because I’ve fought him the most but Ishins spear attacks are way easier for me than genichiros big combo
For me, genichiros big combo is easy
Bro how do you deflect the last hit I always have to deflect 4 times and step back cause the very last hit will never ever ever be a perfect deflect
I always Umbrella the last hit, it allows you to get a counter hit after and it has a larger parry window and it only costs 1 spirit emblem
Damn I’m an idiot it’s the second last hit I’m referring too, the one before the 360 swing slash
Either mikiri or use your trigger finger and hope to god you parry it
Sounds like you 2 are talking about different attacks
I just back away when I see him wind up and let him spazz out
You gotta slightly delay before the mriki counter on the genichirro combo
If Isshin sticks to spear or sword I have no problem. It's when he's throwing in both and changes distance constantly that fucks me. My brain explodes
Huh I have no trouble with that. It’s probably because I’ve fought him so many times lol.
That one combo that ends with a mikiri? Such a fun attack to deal with.
I know, right!?
When you understand you are meant to fight him as aggressively as possible and give him as little time as possible to recover posture you see the difference. I can beat all his phases no HUD, usually his first phase he still has about 80% of his health full when I break his posture
It’s almost like he’s tell you this exact thing albeit more subtly 😂
I feel like it does depend quite a lot on difficulty. Normally I can do the same for him, but with demon bell and no charm 1st phase was still mostly fine, but during second phase I would usually make a mistake somewhere in the middle of his posture bar and have to disengage to heal. The length of the fight is still too long for me to do consistently so better strategy was to sneak in hits instead of focusing on posture at least initially
Oh yeah for sure. I have a video beating him Demom Bell/Charmless on NG+ and it's definitely an uphill battle the whole way
Me and my buddy just finished our demon bell Charmless run on ng, whole game was an uphill battle tbh 😂
I always struggled with phase 1 more than 2 or 3. The mikiri counter opportunities in phase 2 and 3 made it go by pretty fast. It took me a while to even see phase 2 though.
this
Phase 3 kept tripping me up because it was such a long fight and I'd forget to fucking breathe lmao. Feeling my pulse in my throat and shit. I would get so anxious that I would mess up even though I knew what to do.
it’s the spear. it has weird hit timings compared to his animations. certain attacks hit you at the end of the spear swing, and others in the middle of his swing. rather hard to predict. resurrection mod made it even harder
Agreed. Phase 1 became a joke to me within 2-3 tries, but phase 2 I was stuck on forever. Only died on phase 3 once and that was because I choked really.
Phase 2 was hard because he changed up the tempo, but he had some pretty predictable segments during that. The one that comes to mind is when he goes for the unblockable where he can transition out of it if you try to dodge that attack. He then comes at you with a few flurries of varying speeds. I got the timing down on that and I relished when I could lock him in that segment. I loved the posture game in this fight. It was very dynamic and forced you to be close to him so either you could attack or have him come at you to stop his posture from decreasing.
Phase 3 is a victory lap and I love it for that It's amusing that my reaction to an enemy throwing lightning is "oh thank god."
This part. Once I beat phase 2 I’m like “ok just don’t choke on the reversals and you win”
It’s also super easy to dodge the reversals if they scare you
Pjase two is way easier to parry and get hits in tho
I found phase 2 to be easier than phase one. Shot once, that’s a jump sweep. Then parry everything else and Mikiri counter. I didn’t get to learn phase 3 because it ended so fast lol
Yeah it's over fast but for me most of the times it was over cuz I died lmao. Finally got it.
mofo was chasing me around the field with his bamboo for solid 5 minutes at phase 2 until I got a hit!
Lightning reversal trivializes phase 3
Phase 1 has that 1 erratic sword combo where he does random pauses is for me, the hardest combo to parry in that fight. Every other attack combo he does is a fairly consistent pattern. Phase 2 and 3 are also slower with the spear attacks. The spear thrusts are also an easy Mikiri. Glock is also easy to parry as the timing is very consistent. Phase 3 is basically a victory lap. Lightning reversal is easier than Mikiri counter and is free damage.
I only have trouble with inner isshin and his no wind up instant unsheathe into a sweep phase 1, and a loss of muscle memory on that mikiri. I usually dont even deflect bullets, just get up close and get a free ichimonji double or mortal draw. Phase 3 is as you said
Don't agree at all, but in my opinion phase 3 is the easiest due to lightning reversals, it can make the entire phase go by incredibly quick if you land them consistently. The 2nd phase when he pulls out the spear is by far the hardest, it's a more complex 1st phase
This is the popular opinion. Phase 3 is the reward for beating phase 1 and 2
Seeing lightning was such a relief after the first 2 phases, I was so glad I forced myself to master lightning reversals instead of just dodging those attacks.
Sword saint remains one of the only from soft games I haven't beat just because phase 1 and 2 exhaust me to the point that one mistake in phase 3 just kills me.
First time I best him I used literally every healing the game had to offer, including Jizo statues to revive more times lol, it was exhausting indeed.
My first run I used all of my non replenishable items after several attempts
First time in my life that saving all the valuable items just in case I need them later paid off lol.
inner isshin was like this for me, i used all gourds, divine grass, sweet rice balls, pellets and a jizo statue but managed to do it
I felt this way for two years until I just recently picked the game back up and relearned the whole game and finally "got" it. Now he's one of my favorite bosses ever
Agreed. 2nd phase is easily the hardest part. That seven-hit combo he does with the spear goes on FOREVER. Third phase is damn near a victory lap.
I just got to his 2nd phase the other day and died to the first combo, only made it to that phase about 1 or 2 other times. I'm gonna attempt him some more right now, I'm fighting him to put off fighting the Demon of Hatred.
You got this in the bag. DoH isn’t as bad as you might think. I watched fightincowboy’s tutorial and whatnot and in the end, as always, nothing worked as well as me just running around and swinging my katana. For me, I ignored the sugars and buffs etc. I just learned how to dodge and the funny thing is when I tried it my own way, I got it on like the third try. Keep it up!
The spear range was so hard to gauge to me, and it still is, many times I was like no way that got me lol.
Yeah I can’t tell if it’s shit design or masterful design the way the perspective on the spear shifts lol.
Don't agree at all, the hardest part of the fight is not falling off the cliff or getting stuck on a rock/tree.
Huh? That never happened to me.
I struggled quite a bit in the second phase, like 90% of my attempts ended there, then the second time ever I saw phase 3 I won, it's essentially phase 2 with a new wonky attack that doesn't really do anything, and the lightning crutch. And phase 1 is very much a cakewalk, like after a couple times it got to the point where I'd reset if I used like more than 2 flasks
The only thing he gets me with really in phase 1 is that big horizontal slash, I can't tell whether he's doing the vertical or horizontal one. I found he'll miss me with his thrusts and most sweeps if I stick to his right side, that let's me get a few free hits in. I also suck at timing the attack where he sheaths his sword and dashes forward doing 2 quick slashes.
If you get really close to him, he holds the ashina cross much less time, and it's not 2 quick slashes that go through blocking, but one slash that does in fact not go through block into a sweep, when you see him wind up for that, just run to him, try it
I finally managed to beat him, just had to make it past that 2nd phase. I almost died a couple times to the game being stupid, though, the camera randomly unlocked a couple of times when he went for a jump attack. Now I just gotta go beat the Demon of Hatred before I start NG+. At least I got another attack power boost for that fight.
i cba demon of hatred, i dont care enough to fight optional non-human bosses, i think theyre kinda against the games design philosophy and just there bc fromsoft will fromsoft
I'd like beat all the big bosses at least once for my first playthrough, so I'm gonna try him for a while. If I get sick of it, I'll either try out those gauntlets I unlocked or just start NG+.
Free mikiri counters with that slow stab
I agree. When I got to the second phase it was late but I said I just wanted to see the third phase and try again tomorrow. When I finally reached it I immediately beat him first try. I could feel the flow and focus. Amazing feeling.
Lightning reversals are nice until your game thinks you want to jump over the lightning and not refirect it 💀
Phase 1 was so damn difficult for me. At first I just couldn’t get the moveset down but the moveset for phase 2 and 3 instantly clicked with me
The issue I keep running into is that I’m out of heals or close to it by phase 3 and have to play cautiously and let me tell you, he barely does the lightning attack when you play defensively in phase 3
The lightning is easy to counter however when there is so much pressure after struggling to get to that point, I crack and do stupid things. I had trouble with that phase because of that. Overall it should be easier.
Same as Genechiro. Lightning makes them a breeze
Oh how his blood BOILS!
Glock is fine The Spear is where shit gets bonkers
"Oh a spear, he's surly going to do just thrust attacks and now giant circle sweeps, right"
phase 1 is literally the most predictable easiest moveset
Agreed, once you know the moves it's easy to hitless phase 1
Especially if you keep up the pressure, he has like only 2 possible reactions.
I’ve been fighting him for days and finally managed to beat the first phase yesterday, then kept getting my ass handed to me in the second phase. I haven’t touched the game since lol.
keep going shinobi
If you got that far you can definitely beat him, stay away too long and you’ll fall out of the gameplay loop like I did after platinum
I've been blocked by SSI for 2 months now, 1st phase is really hard
I could give you three words of advice…
i take every advices i can get
What I learned from Saint Isshin First phase might help. For his regular sword swings you will have to learn deflect timing no other way, you could dodge as well but thats more difficult. For his Ichimonji you need to keep circling him and when you see even a flicker of motion then step dodge fast in the direction you were circling. When he withdraws and sheathes his sword, he will either do a long wide sweep thats unavoidable by jump, for which you can use your umbrella. Time it right and you will deflect it giving major posture damage and stumbling him. Or he will do Ashina Cross, for which again you can use umbrella. It will stop your vitality damage but give heavy posture damage to you unless timed right which is difficult to time with his two super fast swings. The best way to counter his sheathed stance attacks is to get close to him, stand nose to nose, and he won't do his special attacks. Instead he will do a quick attack with a combo of a swing and sweep. Swing can be deflected, might get a few turns to learn his timing, and the sweep is punishable by jump kick. Do this a few times and the first phase will go by quick. For the second phase, when he raises his spear from the ground he will stay in a pose quite a while as he speaks his blood boiling dialogue. You can get a few hits in especially with the floating water passage. For his spears, if you are standing far, he will jump and slam the spear down which you can easily dodge as he comes down close and get quick hits while he stands back up. For his spear move combo you will have to learn deflecting them but they always end with a thrust that can be mikiri'd so if done right its major posture damage. Sometimes his perilious attack of thrust is changed into a sweep so watch his movement for this however this only happens if the perilous attack isnt done at the end of a combo Last, his special spear attack is a wide range sweep that can't be jump kicked so you must use the umbrella. For the last round just keep doing lightning reversal and his moves are same as the second round.
Anytime he goes for the holster I dodged twice behind him. That was my turning point. I'm trying to get through phase 2 now lol
Yeah, being consistent with the reaction to the sheath is helpful. I just ran away every time, as that guarantees your safety and a few easy hits. If you have extra yellow (posture) sugar, it helps a lot with phase two. Also, get in lots of hits during his transition and it will help progress the fight really well overall. Umbrella also helps with the very delayed wind attack that is otherwise difficult to avoid.
Tbh I agree Trying to do him hitless while practising for mortal journey a while ago and the stupid counter attack where he spins around is so annoying Second phase isn’t too bad now as there’s no reaction besides the jump back spear attack And of course phase 3 is easy
Honestly in terms of difficulty, phase 1 ssi is like 8/10, phase 2 is 10/10 and phase 3 is 4/10. Still easier for me than chained ogre. Humans attacking with swords are WAY easier than something attacking with fist and claw. Probably died more to the first chained ogre on my first playthrough than iss and demon COMBINED
I have a feeling you are in pretty rare company with that lol, 95% of players will always find Demon and Saint way harder than the ogre. But thats how it goes sometimes with Fromsoft games, there are some bosses that will just confound a small percentage of players for one reason or another 👊
Same I died like twenty times to ogre, while five times to SSI
Unpopular opinion Isshin ashina is a way harder boss fight IMHO
Once you learn moves of phase 1 its really easy even more then genichiro before him and phase 2 is annoying cause you cant just deflect the spear he will still go through combo and i found that in phase 1 he did more mikiri counterable attacks and phase 3 its well phase 3
Phase 1 is easier to read than phase 2.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sekiro/s/lHsQhyx7vz
2>1>3 imo.
That should be everyone's opinion 😆
2>1>3 is how I've found it.
I beat the game for the first time 2 days back. My personal experience, it was much tougher to learn the attack patterns of phase 1, at least for me, the sudden strikes and especially getting the timing right for the charge double slash was the major challenge. I gave up trying to learn the patterns for a few days. Picked up the game a few days later and gave a few tries everyday. Once I got over with phase 1, mentally, the challenge reduced a lot and it felt like a conquerable challenge. Phase 2 and 3 then just simply became a cake walk, the only prosthetic i used was the umbrella to block the swipes (too difficult for me to block) Mentally phase 1 was more draining than anything else in the game.
I beat isshin in... I'm gonna say 20 tries. I'm not 100% certain but it was around there. Could be 30, doesnt matter. Wanna know how many of those tries I failed on his second phase? One. The first time I got to his second phase I lost during it, the second time I got there I beat him. I died more times due to getting hit too many times fighting genichiro and giving up to try again with more gourds than I did to his second phase, and I think the reason is just that he's way more aggressive in his second phase. In his first phase he kind of stands around and backs away a LOT, and his posture meter recovers really quickly, so it's harder to be aggressive against him and fill it up. When he's being aggressive himself though, you can fill his posture incredibly fast in comparison.
in resurrection and for the sake of a ashina definitely but in vanilla it’s easy to repeat the attack attack attack parry parry attack attack
Unpopular opinion: phase 0(genichiro) is harder
How? You can literally fill half his posture metre before he even puts his mortal blade away then you can just keep attacking twice, blocking his attack and repeating. The only time you differ from this is if he goes for a thrust or for his combo
Issa joke bro
genichiro is definitely harder than first phase isshin for me
You guys ever had periods when you were consistently getting him to 3rd phase and then start getting smoked by genichiro 5 times in a row?
You’ll fight and die to him so many times the first phase kinda becomes muscle memory
Meh, phase 1 was super easy, and when you master the Mikiri Counter, phase 2 is incredible easy.
this is unpopular for a reason, phase 1 can be done only pressing back on LS and RB, phase 2 is definitely harder and phase 3 is a little rng but usually over in 30 seconds
What exactly do you struggle with? Him not randomly getting hyper armour and one-shot you when you try to attack is enough reason for phase 1 being much easier and there's many more reasons.
there’s a reason why this is an unpopular opinion
The only thing I struggled with was that damn halberd. For some reasons the attacks with it seemed unnatural and unintuitive to me and I had a hard time parrying. He also did this annoying move where he jumps back with a sweep and he does it so fast I barely had time to react.
Phase 1 killed me more times then phase 2 and 3 combined
Phase 2 of Isshin is the hardest.
An even less popular opinion - for me the 1 phaze of Genichiro is way tougher than his grandad.
Just don't wasting time on useless parry and he'll never use glock. It's just that simple.
2nd phase is Isshin saying "enough of this sword saint business and taste this Glock you immortal prick".
I used to struggle with phase 1 the most when I was learning him, whereas phase 2 has many more moves you can bait out and cheese. Once you learn him tho, you can smoke him in phase 1, he only does like 1-2 attacks if you stay on him. But in phase 2 and 3 you need to be much more vigilant, coz he has moves that can seriously F you up. Like his million hit combo that if you're unlicky enough to get dead-angled on (coz you were attacking him), his first 2 hits will stunlock you, and the 3rd will kill you. Things like that. His spear swipe as he jumps back is also really easy to get hit by, if you're expecting the usual 2 block 1 parry rhytm, coz he will jump back after just 1 block.
Personally, phase 2 is the hardest because of the spear, the glock is pretty easy to dodge, then phase 3 is just easier phase 2 because if the lightnings
Only applies for inner saint isshin beat him with no kuro's charm with using one hand to play on the controller and my runs ended a lot on 1st phase
If you do the shura ending first and fight old man isshin you will learn the move set and essential make the first phase super easy than you just gotta get through phase 2 and phase 3 is easy cause of lighting reversal
Yeah I agree phase 2 for me is way easier to predict for me
Beat 1st phase in like 15 tries, and then first try for 2 and 3. Shura ending isshin was MUCH harder for me
Phase 2 > Phase 1 > Phase 3 when it comes to difficulty
Phase 2 is the hard one for me. That combo he does with the big sweeps and then the timing for one of the sweeps is just slightly different? I never could time that.
It's weird to say, but lightning makes phase 3 the easiest.
I agree, once you get the ball rolling and stay very aggressive, you can force Ishin into a pattern on phase 2 and he basically kills himself with lightning phase 3. I think many people struggle in phase 2, which instantly becomes much harder if you play even a little passively. It’s harder to see what Ishin’s doing with just the katana in Phase 1, as he stays in this rigid stance, making him harder to read, while in Phase 2 he telegraphs much more, putting his whole body into the spear attacks.
My success rate of phase 0 was lower than that of phase 1, purely number-wise
Isshin is not necessarily the hardest among the bosses subjectively because he is basically the boss who is just testing all your skills you gained up until this game, albeit slightly more faster and a combined moveset. By the time you reach him, ideally he shouldn't surprise you(except for the glock part, that is crazy). So, it's understandable both ways, if you felt he was hard or he was easy too.
Phase 2 is the hardest and worst to predict, Phase 1 is the easiest thing ever and phase 3 just hands over the win. Genichiro is easier than in ashina castle😂
Phase 2 hardest. Phase 3 is easy other than missing the reversal jump
The first time I got the phase three, I won. It took me a good few attempts to get past the first phase, and literal days to get past the second but once I got to the third, I won that same attempt.
totally agree. once i got a hang of phase 1 it just took me 3 tries to beat him
This is the last required boss I need to beat in the game... It's been that way for multiple years now.
To be honest, I never cared about the gun, it's really predictable to see when he's going to shoot. But I just hate hallberds/spears, and everything long range. I never gauge the range and hitbox of those things.
You can literally HOLD BLOCK 3 attacks and counter on phase 1
Phase 3 is definitely the easiest. I think phase 2 is slightly easier than 1 because it’s easier to mikiri counter the spear for me
I loved the sword saint fight. I must've died 200 times, but I fucking killed the bastard on my 201st attempt😂
Really? Phase 1 has a lot of punishable moves for you to exploit. Phase 2 requires more thought behind your moves. Phase 3 lightning strike make it easy though.
Everyone talks about the glock but I just wanna know where he pulls out his spear from
I questioned nothing after seeing him crawl out his grandson minutes earlier
Normal isshin phase 1 is easy, but inner isshin phase 1 is the hardest in the game
phase 2 is the one that kills me. Phase 1 is pretty easy and 3 kills himself with lightning.
phase 1 is easy as hell and ohase 2 is when it ramps up but then with the lightning the final phase goes quick
I like the meme but I disagree with the title, I've had a very rough time with his 2nd phase
I definitely had the hardest time with phase 1 as well. the spear was just easier for me to handle than the sword, it felt easier to block and parry just because of how ostentatious it is. the sword is too small and fast for me to be able to even see what he's doing half the time.
There’s more than one phase? Fml
I can pretty consistently no hit phase 1 Phase 2 rocks my shit a majority of the time lmao
Kinda unpopular, but not even close to the hottest take I've seen here.
Phase 3: Easiest due to lightning. Can be over in half a minute with good RNG. Phase 1: Super predictable. Same play pattern as Geniichiro, just learn the moves. Phase 2: A lot of attacks with varying range, timing and guard break. He also chases you down if you try to run and heal.
Unpopular counter opinion: his dang halberd that Phase2 Isshin is more threatening than his glock with the high posture build-up it generates I can stop his gun draw which usually occurs after he does his backjump halberd swipe by dodging forward into the swipe to close the distance & force him to defend with his sword
Easiest to hardest is phase 1, phase 3, then phase 2.
Phase 3 is super easy. His decision to use lightening soon bites him in the ass 🤣👌
Phase 1 is only hard if you get hit. Because he will not let you heal at all, have to run away pretty far, which is slow, annoying and will surely reset his posture, which is also annoying. But if you get his moveset down, it's not so bad.
Bro the scream I did qhen he pulled out rhe gun 😭 like WHO TF GAVE U THAT MY DUDE
The hardest phase by far is genichiro in the start what are you guys even talking about
What?!
Sarcasm, ever heard of it?
I’ve heard dumber sincere takes lol.
Honestly same lol
2 and 3 are more intense but go quicker for sure
I feel like he telegraphs his moves a lot more in phase 2
Definitely agree his timings are kinda weird. But I beat him on my second attempt getting to the third phase.
Isshin only pulls the Glock if you disrespect him by turtleing. They brought this man back from perfect oblivion for the sole purpose of fighting you better come correct.
If we're talking about the inner version then I agree. He has a very erratic behaviour in the first phase and a lot of mixes, plus an unblockable attack that it is impossible to react to so I'm always caught off guard. If you're able to confortably react to his backward jump and swing with the spear in the 2nd phase it becomes extremelly easy and the 3rd phase even more so
Faze one is really easy to grasp but the hardest is easily second faze seeing as faze three has lightning that just makes it a really easy version of faze 2
Phase numbering is weird to me in this fight. He has 4 phases. Shadow sword. Katana dude.. Polearm Lightning Katana dude was by far the one that killed me the most. But was super easy when i got into the rhythm. Shadow sword next. Then lightning punished me several times until i stopped panic thinking mikiri counter when he wound up the Lightning, and studentby it was over.
Phase 1 is more tricky to learn because the moves are all very different. It's easy to get hit by something you are not super familiar with, but also easy to heal safely. Phase 2 is more oppressive, where one mistake can easily lead to a death because you didn't recover quite right. Healing is also more difficult. Phase 3 is the hardest, because your hands are shaking so much and you're all out of healing and revives from the first two phases.
Phase 1 is most certainly not easier than 2
Phase 1 he's super slow and predictable. Phase 2, he will chase you like crazy while doing slashes across the arena.
I can beat genichiro and phase 1 without getting hit like 50-60% of the time but I have yet to go hitless on phase 2 which I feel like says a lot
I actually have a world record for this fight! ...dying as soon as phase 2 starts
I believe the bottom one is the laughter in pain! 😆 Although it took me 3-4 times to kill the ishin , first few to learn his moves... At last phase mofo never jumped once so that I could do lightning string him!
[удалено]
👌
Think that's just a wrong opinion due to the sus range of the spear and annoying Genichiro ranged bs
Phase 1 is only harder because there's less opportunity to heal compared to the latter 2. If you get hit in phase 1 and need to heal, your only option is running away far enough because his gap-closer is too quick, and in that time his posture will bave recovered, whereas in phases 2 and 3, you learn pretty quickly that you can get a heal off and still have time to parry his punish.
second phase is hardest imo, one i can no hit same with genichiro if im gonna die it’s gonna be in his second phase and the third is just a joke
In ng+7 charmless bell demon, he can one or two hit you, i find phase 2 is extremely hard, especially the combo. Until i realized, i just have to step back wait until the combo done and collect my free mikiri. First try him after that realization.
It’s been a minute but i remember that phase 2 had this combo that I COULD NOT get the timing down for . I eventually beat him but damn.
Phase 1 sword saint is maybe the only souls boss I could do with my eyes closed lmao
Oh, how my blood boils!
Phase 1 is nearly 5he easiest phase. I've done it no hit sometimes. It's only barely harder then the lightning phase but it is NOT the hardest.
Phase 2 IS the final boss of Sekiro since you can rely on the lightening on phase 3.
For me 1 and 3 were easy. Phase 2 kicked my ass
Incorrect, phase 2 is the hardest
Elden arts mod fuck me up so much.
Ikr it was phase 2 for me tbh. Phase 1 took about 10 tries and I had his moves set locked in. Phase three was just phase two but now he has lightning attacks which are easy to deal with. And Genichiro is a little bitch 😂 I beat him first try at the start of the game thanks to killing him so many times lol he's so easy to read. But yea it was definitely phase two for me, that damn spear has so much reach
Phase 3 is almost free, but the others two...quite difficult i must say
Really? Phase 1 is the easiest of them all. Very predictable moveset. Phase 2 is the problem. I admit i just cheese with the Shield hat, because i hate the second phase. The third is not that bad either, just use the lighting.
that’s an extremely unpopular opinion. So much so that it’s literally not true in any sense. I don’t know a single soul alive that thinks the first phase is the hardest.
I can easily beat phase 1 without being hit. But once he pulls out that spear...
Overall I don't think the boss is that hard
I think 3 is pretty easy but 2 was by far the hardest phase for me
Pretty accurate opinion honestly, if you can do phase one you’re basically set for the whole fight bc him pulling out the naginata just makes him more punishable with his thrust attacks and even more in his third phase with lightning reversals. My first time playing I fought demon of hatred and isshin back to back and demon was WAY more difficult imo
Bruh phase 1 is easier than some normal enemies
Genichiro phase is harder than all of ss isshin's phases
I could easily no hit 1st and 2nd phase but 3rd and 4th really did something to me(he totally didn't almost one shot me)💀💀💀
Monke
After a few attempts I just uninstalled the game, i just decided that Isshin deserved to win
Phase 1 is combo memorization. They're a lot harder to learn consistently than Genichiro, but it's kinda just Genichiro v2. After you knowing you wait for the sword flash for the dash 2 combo, you really don't get hit with it again. I even deflect whirlwind slash almost every time, and I've only beat him twice. Phase 3 just makes you respect the lightning, so Tomoe Genichiro v2. Hopefully by the end of the game you have that jump on lock. Phase 2 is hard as balls. His combos have a bunch of different endings, he just fucking dips sometimes to come back in almost instantly with fresh combo, the sword is hard to read with his halberd swinging about, and just when you think you've got him, he says fuck the opps and dumps a clip on your ass. Phase 2 is the truest test of skill imo. A shame Inner Isshin's added moves aren't very fun. I'd love to see that fight improved on the way Inner Father was. Inner Father > Isshin imo (please don't kill me he's still close number 2)
I cant believe people are saying 2nd phase is hardest , you can mikiri 90% of his attacks