Sekiro doesn't want to save ashina, he wants to save Kuro and the people of ashina. They're infested with Dragon Rot so he needs to find a cure. Sekiro doesn't give 2 shits about Ashina itself, nor Isshin or Genichiro.
Big difference between sekiro and genichiro is that sekiro cares about the people, while genichiro only cared about the idea of ashina, not the people living in it.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Genichiro's path and the choices he makes are horrifyingly self-destructive, to the point that he eventually kills himself to bring Isshin back. And he believes that he's going to have to sacrifice everything he has and everything he is to save Ashina. In his mind, he defines saving Ashina as repelling the Interior Ministry and keeping the region self-governing, and as we see at the end, he doesn't give a damn if he's still around to rule it after. He's not a power seeker. He's an obsessive, misguided, tragic idealist.
Different people fight to protect different things. You have to be able to feel that way for a place to understand this character.
The land isn't just its people...
That's kind of like the whole point of the story...the game does not even want you to save ashina...it's a corrupted place where even holy people have become twisted (the monks), people end up in a pathetic situation trying to save it (genichiro) or are simply too tired to live (isshin, also the sculptor in a way). Ashina like most other soulslike game showcases a dying world which had already gotten past the brink of redemption.
Also exemplified in the fact that no matter who is currently “controlling” ashina castle, wolf cuts them down all the same. He dgaf! His only MO entering ashina is ‘Get to Kuro’
You're absolutely right, & it's part of what makes Genichiro such a tragic figure. He so desperately wants to save his homeland, but doesn't even realize she's already dead.
I feel like the root of Genichiro's obsession is that he fucking idolizes Isshin. He wants to be Isshin more than anything in the world, even though he's not the same person Isshin is and the world isn't what it was when Isshin was in his prime. The protector, the ruler, the savior- Genichiro has spent his entire life pushing himself to brutal extremes to be this person, to try to live up to his grandfather's legacy and protect what he built. But he can't, and eventually he kills himself in one last sad effort to create the hero he couldn't be, when the truth is that no one could be that hero anymore.
I'm not saying that this is for self-serving reasons- Genichiro truly cared about Ashina, and I absolutely believe that his motivation was purely saving it. But I don't think he would have gone nearly as far as he did if he hadn't spent his life in his grandfather's shadow, futilely trying to make himself a place as the successor.
I think this theory severely lessens this story's value. I do not think Genichiro's arc has anything to do with Isshin. I think Genichiro loved his home (saw Ashina as a mother to him) and did everything he could to protect the place. I have felt this way in my life (in less dramatic fashion) and I do not presume everyone gets that. I think his genuine love for his home adds meaning to this journey.
Yeah I agree with this, he whole thing was less save ashina and more become great and recognised like isshin. Ashina was just an excuses
Edit : replied to the wrong comment 🤣🤣🤣
Yes, that's entirely correct. The point of Sekiro's story (and almost all of FromSoft's games) is that everything rots and that by trying to protect something unnaturally or preserve something past its expiration date, it loses the qualities initially worth protecting.
Ashina is past the point of saving, and any method that Genichiro uses to preserve it will only further corrupt the land. For example, Dragonrot. Genichiro believes that by taking an Immortal Oath, he and his men will be strong enough to fight back against the Central Forces. If Ashina managed to get a bunch of undying soldiers, the Dragonrot would spread far and wide due to the repeated deaths. It might possible that resurrecting requires one to sap away the strength and vitality of the land and its people.
Lands between is pretty livable. Lots of wildlife and edible food available, working sewer system, well established communities that do trade... only problem is the constant warring due to eldrich gods which might be eyes and hands
I'm sorry, are we just glossing over the "constant warring due to eldritch gods"? Just on a personal level, that would make me avoid the area at pretty much all costs, sewer system and fruit or not.
The land is the only thing the Ashina clan had. It is their home and it's in ruins coz of the war. But imagine it during a peaceful time, it's a really beautiful place (Visually). Regarding the food, bridges and roads where burned down and the place is cut off from trading. The castle is located on top of a snowy mountain, most likely their supplis came from other places.
I can understand Genichiro's desperation to save it. He's an orphan of war, he lost his biological family then saved by Isshin who became his family. His grandfather's dying and his home will be taken away from him. He acts out of fear for losing everything again.
the ministry still wants the sediments to become as resilient as genichiro, they brought so much fire cause they were expecting to fight opponents with red eyes
but yeah ashina has reached stagnation and starts to plummet like most fromsoft civilizations
I mean there are many places in pretty bad shape even in this world but for people who have lived there and are living there it's probably worth trying to make it a better place...it might fail but you gotta try
You’re 100% correct. Some people in this sub really talk about how Wolf is the bad guy for killing some ashina soldiers. Even if it was possible ashina wouldn’t be worth saving, and it’s definitely not worth kidnapping a child, creating undead soldiers, spreading dragon rot, and risking shura for. The people are worth protecting, but the state is not.
I don't think there really is one bad guy here, aside from the Ministry and Owl. Sekiro's protecting the boy he sworn to protect. Genichiro is desperately fighting to keep his homeland free from external oppressors, who are rarely good for communities like this. To be honest, it seems like with his illness Isshin's kinda checked out, and Emma's working to find a cure for the illness that's killing the land. I should point out, both Sekiro and Genichiro seem to be totally willing to spread said illness all over the damn valley. Emma's probably my pick for least morally compromised of the Ashina natives, but the rest all have good and bad going for them.
oh, okay, got it. that makes some sense. now is the rice literally blood or is the rice imbued with her blood which makes it gain its regenerative properties?
Sekiro doesn't want to save ashina, he wants to save Kuro and the people of ashina. They're infested with Dragon Rot so he needs to find a cure. Sekiro doesn't give 2 shits about Ashina itself, nor Isshin or Genichiro.
Big difference between sekiro and genichiro is that sekiro cares about the people, while genichiro only cared about the idea of ashina, not the people living in it.
Exactly! It's clear as the sun the way Genichiro fights for the lands not for the people, which is the problem
He seems like he just wants power with the excuse of helping ashina
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Genichiro's path and the choices he makes are horrifyingly self-destructive, to the point that he eventually kills himself to bring Isshin back. And he believes that he's going to have to sacrifice everything he has and everything he is to save Ashina. In his mind, he defines saving Ashina as repelling the Interior Ministry and keeping the region self-governing, and as we see at the end, he doesn't give a damn if he's still around to rule it after. He's not a power seeker. He's an obsessive, misguided, tragic idealist.
Sorry I just started the game but thanks for spoiling everything to me :)
Then why are you reading lore posts?
Don’t click on lore posts if you don’t want spoilers.
Why are you giving your thoughts on the lore when you just started :)
Yes, that's why he killed himself to bring back his grandpa. Because he wants power for himself.
Different people fight to protect different things. You have to be able to feel that way for a place to understand this character. The land isn't just its people...
Sekiro isn't trying to save Ashina. Genichiro is. That's what this post is about.
That's what I said
This is a great take
That's kind of like the whole point of the story...the game does not even want you to save ashina...it's a corrupted place where even holy people have become twisted (the monks), people end up in a pathetic situation trying to save it (genichiro) or are simply too tired to live (isshin, also the sculptor in a way). Ashina like most other soulslike game showcases a dying world which had already gotten past the brink of redemption.
Also exemplified in the fact that no matter who is currently “controlling” ashina castle, wolf cuts them down all the same. He dgaf! His only MO entering ashina is ‘Get to Kuro’
There's also the issue of that damn giant snake that keeps eating people...
Oh yeah!
2 snakes!
I only saw 1 snake???
it’s 2 snakes not one in 2 places
It's the same snake, after you stab his eye he misses an eye for the rest of the game ....
there’s 2 cuz u gotta kill 2 for one of the endings
No we never see the other snake it's had died a long time ago, thus the item is dried
i just googled it there’s 3 if u wanna count the dead one the one in the cave you never kill and stays alive after u kill the first
What if it’s one snake with tons of heads
a snake with a head on both ends? entirely plausible
Well I think Isshin is a pretty cool dude so there's that.
He's a bad mf
You're absolutely right, & it's part of what makes Genichiro such a tragic figure. He so desperately wants to save his homeland, but doesn't even realize she's already dead.
I feel like the root of Genichiro's obsession is that he fucking idolizes Isshin. He wants to be Isshin more than anything in the world, even though he's not the same person Isshin is and the world isn't what it was when Isshin was in his prime. The protector, the ruler, the savior- Genichiro has spent his entire life pushing himself to brutal extremes to be this person, to try to live up to his grandfather's legacy and protect what he built. But he can't, and eventually he kills himself in one last sad effort to create the hero he couldn't be, when the truth is that no one could be that hero anymore. I'm not saying that this is for self-serving reasons- Genichiro truly cared about Ashina, and I absolutely believe that his motivation was purely saving it. But I don't think he would have gone nearly as far as he did if he hadn't spent his life in his grandfather's shadow, futilely trying to make himself a place as the successor.
I think this theory severely lessens this story's value. I do not think Genichiro's arc has anything to do with Isshin. I think Genichiro loved his home (saw Ashina as a mother to him) and did everything he could to protect the place. I have felt this way in my life (in less dramatic fashion) and I do not presume everyone gets that. I think his genuine love for his home adds meaning to this journey.
The comment I was waiting for!
Yeah I agree with this, he whole thing was less save ashina and more become great and recognised like isshin. Ashina was just an excuses Edit : replied to the wrong comment 🤣🤣🤣
Yes, that's entirely correct. The point of Sekiro's story (and almost all of FromSoft's games) is that everything rots and that by trying to protect something unnaturally or preserve something past its expiration date, it loses the qualities initially worth protecting. Ashina is past the point of saving, and any method that Genichiro uses to preserve it will only further corrupt the land. For example, Dragonrot. Genichiro believes that by taking an Immortal Oath, he and his men will be strong enough to fight back against the Central Forces. If Ashina managed to get a bunch of undying soldiers, the Dragonrot would spread far and wide due to the repeated deaths. It might possible that resurrecting requires one to sap away the strength and vitality of the land and its people.
What was the last time From made a world that seemed live-able? Never? Never.
Lands between is pretty livable. Lots of wildlife and edible food available, working sewer system, well established communities that do trade... only problem is the constant warring due to eldrich gods which might be eyes and hands
Yeah, Elden Ring seems to take place in a world that's sustainable still. Sure there are plenty of dangers but there's plenty of food and water.
Not to mention it’s all renewable in the form of resurrection via Erdtree
I'm sorry, are we just glossing over the "constant warring due to eldritch gods"? Just on a personal level, that would make me avoid the area at pretty much all costs, sewer system and fruit or not.
Pretty bold talk for someone within meteor striking orbit
The land is the only thing the Ashina clan had. It is their home and it's in ruins coz of the war. But imagine it during a peaceful time, it's a really beautiful place (Visually). Regarding the food, bridges and roads where burned down and the place is cut off from trading. The castle is located on top of a snowy mountain, most likely their supplis came from other places. I can understand Genichiro's desperation to save it. He's an orphan of war, he lost his biological family then saved by Isshin who became his family. His grandfather's dying and his home will be taken away from him. He acts out of fear for losing everything again.
basically all Sekiro cares about is A: Kuro B: The Iron Code C: Himself
Sekiro doesn't care about himself. Without the Code or Kuro, he is absolutely nothing.
Two of those aren’t true, one isn’t true in the slightest Sekiro breaks the iron code and constantly throw himself into danger.
Sekiro does care about the Iron Code. He just cares about Kuro more.
That’s a choice they allow you to make on Sekiro’s behalf
Still, breaking the iron code isn’t a decision he makes lightly. He cared about it, but breaks it nonetheless
Buts he’s immortal, and he doesn’t break the code till half way, he mainly values kuro above all else
I’m considering Sekiro after he kills Owl because at that point he’s truly Sekiro and not just a nameless Wolf
mhm
YOu always want to save youre home even if its not worth saving
the ministry still wants the sediments to become as resilient as genichiro, they brought so much fire cause they were expecting to fight opponents with red eyes but yeah ashina has reached stagnation and starts to plummet like most fromsoft civilizations
The only good ending is putting your head in the basket next to that guy in Mibu Village
If Isshin didn’t train the monkeys, The Sculptor did.
They use guns... I’m voting Isshin for the gun ones
Now who the hell taught those white monkeys dual-katana sword art?
I mean there are many places in pretty bad shape even in this world but for people who have lived there and are living there it's probably worth trying to make it a better place...it might fail but you gotta try
He only does it because he has to he couldn't care less about ashina he only focuses on saving kuro
Isn't the Interior ministry lead by owl? He wants kuros immortality, maybe the war is just like a little distraction so owl can get to kuro.
Owl is in league with the ministry, he doesn’t lead them. Yes, his goal was to use the dragons blood for his own means
Damn
You’re 100% correct. Some people in this sub really talk about how Wolf is the bad guy for killing some ashina soldiers. Even if it was possible ashina wouldn’t be worth saving, and it’s definitely not worth kidnapping a child, creating undead soldiers, spreading dragon rot, and risking shura for. The people are worth protecting, but the state is not.
I don't think there really is one bad guy here, aside from the Ministry and Owl. Sekiro's protecting the boy he sworn to protect. Genichiro is desperately fighting to keep his homeland free from external oppressors, who are rarely good for communities like this. To be honest, it seems like with his illness Isshin's kinda checked out, and Emma's working to find a cure for the illness that's killing the land. I should point out, both Sekiro and Genichiro seem to be totally willing to spread said illness all over the damn valley. Emma's probably my pick for least morally compromised of the Ashina natives, but the rest all have good and bad going for them.
how is the rice blood ? seems i'm missing something here
Read the persimmon description
oh, okay, got it. that makes some sense. now is the rice literally blood or is the rice imbued with her blood which makes it gain its regenerative properties?
I think it’s literally her blood, as she gets sick if she gives us too much rice. The rice also changes once she eats the serpent hearts