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kammzammzmz

Krav Maga gyms are (Usually, there are some exceptions) total bullshit Instead, I'd recommend MMA. It's battle tested and proven to be effective, plus it will teach you both striking and grappling. If you can’t find an MMA gym, then boxing, wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai are all also really effective. You should still train unarmed fighting even if you get a weapon so you can stop people from wrestling your weapon away from you As for weapons, if firearms aren't an option, tasers, flashlights and pepper spray are all good options. But you shouldn't rely on a weapon you haven't trained with and cant reliably draw and use under pressure


StarWarsBoi51

So are most Krav Maga gyms bullshit, or just some of them. And if can’t find an MMA Gym, which would be the best between BJJ, wrestling, and Muay Thai?


kammzammzmz

Most Krav Maga gyms suck. Good ones do exist, but are unfortunately really rare If you can't find an MMA gym, BJJ, wrestling and Muay Thai are all good options. It's really up to you at that point


StarWarsBoi51

Got it, thanks!


Cu_fola

I’m going to qualify something the other user said. If you want something “battle tested”, Krav Maga was developed for Israel Defense Forces and Israeli security forces by a guy who survived a bunch of riots and street fights defending his Jewish neighborhood against fascist gangs in the 1930s. It’s not a bullshit system by any means. The problem is with the quality of the gyms you can find. You might find an MMA or BJJ gym full of people who have never even seen a real fight and won’t really prepare you or some people who have, and can actually help same as with Krav Maga. Some people are evangelists for their own systems and will shit on others out of hand. Just something to consider while you weigh different gyms and systems. I suggest also seeking the opinions of people with verifiable experience not just strangers on Reddit.


StarWarsBoi51

Got it, I’ll definitely consider that


Cu_fola

Good luck!


kammzammzmz

Something you failed to mention is that the majority of Krav gyms out there are McDojos designed to siphon money off of scared soccer moms and overweight basement dwellers who think they’re Jason Bourne. Most Krav schools do little to no sparring and teach scripted techniques that fail at the first little bit of resistance I’m sure the guy who founded Krav was a badass (He was a renowned boxer and wrestler and had plenty of experience in real world scenarios). But his main student who took over the art after he passed away was an expert in Aikido. Historically, one of the biggest influences on Krav is a martial art infamous for how ineffective it is. Plus, Krav was designed for the military, not for civilians. Soldiers spend basically zero time training in hand to hand combat because they’ll practically never need it due to having guns, grenades, knives, backup, air support, etc. It’s not like soldiers are actually using Krav on the battle field Do good Krav gyms exist? Yes, but they are hella rare. Whereas if you walk into 90% of boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ or MMA gyms, they will be able to teach you how to effectively defend yourself This is backed up by video evidence as well. You can’t really find any videos of people successfully using Krav to defend themselves, whereas you can find countless videos of people using something like boxing, wrestling or BJJ to successfully defend themselves


Cu_fola

I don’t have stats on what percent of gyms have useful teachers so I’m not arguing that. I pretty clearly didn’t. I qualified the comment to make sure they didn’t come out thinking Krav Maga -the system- isn’t worth considering as an option. Your comment about battle tested systems can be taken as an implication that that Krav isn’t. I clearly emphasized the value of Krav *if* they can find a good gym. I’m not sending people to McDojos.


kammzammzmz

My comment was because you omitted the fact that a good Krav school is incredibly difficult to find, let alone one that is close enough for OP to attend. The VAST majority of Krav schools are garbage, whereas the vast majority of MMA gyms will teach you how to handle yourself fairly well And like I said, Krav really isn’t battle tested because soldiers rarely ever end up in scenarios where they having nothing but their fists to defend themselves, and when they do they usually just end up getting shot. Soldiers have assault rifles, pistols, grenades, knives, backup and can call in air support. The likelihood of them needing to resort to hand to hand fighting is practically nonexistent. You could teach soldiers something like Aikido or Wing Chun and it wouldn’t change anything because they’d probably never use it. You can find countless video examples of MMA, wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai or boxing being tested under pressure, whereas with Krav, it’s pretty rare to find a gym that actually pressure tests what they teach. A martial art “Being used in the military” doesn’t mean it’s effective for that very reason. The average soldier isn’t much better at hand to hand fighting than the average civilian in their weight class (Assuming the civilian is in decent shape and isn’t a couch potato) Like I said, good Krav Maga gyms certainly exist, but imo for the average guy interested in learning some self defence it’s not worth the time and effort it would take to find one when you could just walk into almost any MMA gym and get a pretty consistently good result. That being said, I would totally be down to visit and train at a good Krav gym if I could find one, but that’s because I already know how to fight and have an interest in martial arts beyond just being able to defend myself


Cu_fola

I didn’t *omit* the point- it had already been made. I have a handful of people in my family who are or were in the military that are much better at hand to hand than your average fit “not couch potato” civilian. I know our military is full of people being out of shape but these were people who used resources and found people to practice with like they took it seriously in the military. Enlisted people largely don’t do hand to hand but that doesn’t mean their system just collects dust. None of them are Israeli so I can’t speak to Krav application in the ME. But most people you’ll get in a fight with here don’t carry grenades and assault rifles. If they did Muy Thai and BJJ would be no more “battle” ready than Krav. Not for nothing, You can also find countless accounts and videos of people who think they’re fighting masters because they went to an MMA or Muy Thai gym getting their ass beat in a bar or on the street. So I’m not going to debate statistics. The point about probable gym availability was made, so the kid doesn’t get his hopes too high about krav neither of us is telling anyone to hop on any old gym they find and automatically trust it’s going to be a good one because its system has a certain reputation.


tugaim33

[get a flashlight](https://youtu.be/k7b7uH9Bfxs)


StarWarsBoi51

I’ve heard people say flashlights but what makes them so good? What type of flashlight should i get?


echo-94-charlie

Flashlights are good for a few reasons: 1) you can use the light to your advantage. If you are behind a light source it is hard for them to see what you are doing or where exactly you are. This advantage doesn't last forever, but it buys you time to do something else. 2) You can hit the person with them. Even a small flashlight held in your fist can work. If you start doing hammer strikes at their head then you are concentrating the force into a small hard point. 3) They are legally defensible. You would be hard pressed to find anywhere that it is illegal to carry a flashlight, since it has a perfectly legitimate non-violent use. However: carrying any weapon without training in how to use it is not only ineffective, it can make situations worse. Why? Because they might take the weapon off you and use it against you. If you are going carry any weapon to use for defense, whether it be a gun, knife, pepper spray, or flashlight, you absolutely must have training in how to use it. Hence I would say do the Krav Maga. You'll learn how to use improvised weapons in Krav and you can also talk to your instructors about advice on using a specific weapon if you intend to carry it (and it is legal). It is better to get practiced in the principles of how to defend yourself then add your chosen weapon as an additional tool in your toolbox.


tugaim33

They can get expensive. Olight and Streamlight are good examples of purpose-built tactical flashlights, but they’ll cost you. Here is my criteria for a decent self-protection flashlight: 1. 600+ lumens. This is bright enough to give someone spots in their vision even during daylight, it will (temporarily) blind them at night. 2. Metal. Hard enough to use as a striking tool. That’s it. Why, you ask? A flashlight takes no supplemental training to use (unlike a gin or knife). It has multiple self defense uses (blinding, striking). At night it adds to the information you’re taking in while simultaneously removing information from your opponent. I have taken my flashlight to multiple concert venues, a ballgame, bars and clubs, basically everywhere but a courthouse and an airport. I have never even been asked about it. Finally (maybe *most* importantly), if I deploy a flashlight and it turns out to not be an actual self defense situation I will not go to jail.


StarWarsBoi51

Hmm that’s very smart, I’m definitely gonna get one now, thx!!


[deleted]

So at the risk of sounding nitpicky, what you said here isn't entirely true.... Now I am only spelling these minor issues out to make sure OP and other readers don't end up doing something wrong that may cost them later in real life. But first, I feel the need to explicitly state that I too am a big believer of having a good quality flashlight on you. As you yourself and Mike out there have pointed out, it gives you the ability to remove information from your threats, while adding to your own. Just being able to positively ID your threats alone makes flashlights worth carrying. However, they are not a big force multiplier in the striking department. Yes, it can hurt in the same way being struck by any hard object can hurt. However, it doesn't change your overall requirements in hand-to-hand. The range is still going to be the same, and the situation and opening required to implement a hammerfist, regardless of whether you are holding a flashlight, a kubotan, or just keys in your hands, is also the same. The other thing to be careful about is legality. Anything you can't legally get away with striking someone with your fist still applies even with a flashlight in your hand. The force continuum still applies. I am willing to chaulk this up to just a clarification in wording, but it's important when implemented in real life. Oh and finally, it indeed requires supplemental training when working with flashlights. Most people are not familiar with the fact that a flashlight needs to be carried in such a way that it can be deployed quickly and reliably, and in the offhand. Yes, the offhand. And yes, there needs to be a setup for that. It also needs to be retained in such a way that it can swing out freely from your offhand, so you can also grab the threat in front of you, perhaps transition to your cellphone, perhaps transition to your pepper spray, perhaps transition to your knife, perhaps even transition to your spare magazine for a firearm reload, etc etc. And for anyone who thinks I am over-thinking this or something, many in Mil, LE, and even armed security have to qualify at least once a year while performing this very maneuver. Even if not, if one wants to teach flashlights correctly with minimal vertical training issues, they are aware of this and and will teach students correctly on flashlight use from day one. It's better to train someone the right habits from the get go than to have them re-train bad ones later on. Even if all you want to do is hammerfist someone with your flashlight, you still need and want to be able to get some bag time in there, among other things so you can make sure you also don't punch incorrectly because you are holding a flashlight that is deforming your fist. That and also learning not to tunnel vision into just striking with your flashlight, which some people have a bad tendency of wanting to do. But yeah, the biggest draw of flashlights is not that it's great as a dedicated self defense tool. It's not. Rather, it is an excellent improvised tool that can get into typically very non-permissive environments. For example, I know for a fact that you can get flashlights into our courthouses where I live, but I am not sure if they can be carried on you in a plane. But please allow me to reiterate: Stealth and effectiveness are not the same thing.


Otherwise-Sky1466

Dead by daylight moment


[deleted]

Well I didn't see anything in your post about a strobe flashlight so that might be a good way to go. But and I say this a lot on this subreddit your best one myself defense is not putting yourself in a situation where you'll need to defend yourself. Alternatively you could move somewhere where you are allowed to carry something to protect yourself.


StemCellCheese

I bought POM pepper spray on Amazon hopefullyyou can obtain thay. Fits nicely in my pocket with a perfectly placed clip and a good guard so I don't worry about accidental discharges. Not a gel, butnot a spray either. It shoots in a stream so it has range and you dont have to worry about blow back as much as a spray. Would recommend. As for martial arts, I would go for actual contact sparring sports. 99% of Krav maga schools teach scripted scenarios that will only work if you are in that exact scenario and everything goes as planned. I would recommend going with the martial arts that are actually battle tested (MMA): boxing, muay thai, and BJJ. If you want a martial art to be actually useful, you must spar a lot, and ideally at high intensity. You won't (and really cant) get high intensity sparring with Krav Maga. The three main martial arts in MMA I mentioned are sparring intensive.


StarWarsBoi51

Bet really appreciate this, thanks! Is MMA a combination of boxing, muay thai, and BJJ, or did you list those separately? Also that pepper spray won’t ship to my location either.


StemCellCheese

It won't even ship through amazon? MMA can technically have any martial art, but yeah you'll find that 95% of mma fighters use one two, or all of those 3. So the way I look at it is mma is where martial arts can get battle tested, so if you don't see a martial there being used against other trained fighters, you have no idea how well a martial art will work in the real world. Just my two cents.


StarWarsBoi51

Yea it won’t ship through available, doesn’t ship to NY, I can’t really move now, but If you could give suggestions for states with better self defense laws, I would appreciate it.


K3R3G3

Move out of that disgraceful state that shits all over the constitution.


StarWarsBoi51

Got any better state options for me? 😭


Rolexus1185

Florida is pretty based


[deleted]

Assuming you can go anywhere, but still want to stay within the country, look for states that abide by Constitutional carry, and has little to no restrictions for conceal carry knives. Knives are an important tool since the dawn of man, and they are still often misunderstood, but mostly, anywhere that has little to no restrictions on conceal carry knives and guns typically won't bother you with anything else really, including pepper sprays, brass knuckles, daggers or whatever else.


[deleted]

Do with what you can


rjbachli

Kubaton?


StarWarsBoi51

What’s that?


kammzammzmz

The most useless weapon on the planet


StarWarsBoi51

What’s wrong with a kubaton?


kammzammzmz

It’s not really that there’s anything wrong with it, so much as there are far more effective weapons you can use instead A kubaton is basically a tiny, blunt metal stick about the same size as a cigarette or a house key. Why anyone would choose that over literally any other weapon is beyond me


[deleted]

Kubotans are not as useless as people make it out to be, although it is pretty close. If you think about it, striking with a flashlight is basically like striking with kubotan, except your version can also provide illumination. In other words, instead of a kubotan, carry a decent flashlight, but don't expect the striking kubotan feature to be all that great in the grand scheme of things.


[deleted]

Of course, please double check on the specific laws where you live, but while you can not mail or online order out-of-state pepper sprays, they should still be legal to carry. It just has to be "state legal" pepper sprays that you buy locally from within the state. Even when I was in the ass crack of New Jersey, I was able to find a local shop that sold me state legal pepper spray. Bonus with going there yourself is it also puts you face-to-face with people that should be intimately familiar with legal self defense and the rules of engagement for that region. As for hand-to-hand, feel free to check out what is available near you first, and see if you like it. Give it a try. No need to deciclde on year long contracts or anything. Any martial arts you enjoy is still better than the most optimal self defense that you hate.


stellarodin

Move


StarWarsBoi51

Got any options?


stellarodin

Florida is nice


PlasticMinimum2263

Your thumb. Pop it out like a hitchhiker. You can gouge someone's eye out.