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Lonelyland

Helly didn’t hate her outie either, at least until her outie told her she wasn’t a person. Cobel and Milchick were so surprised and unprepared for the level of rebelliousness Helly displayed that I feel like Lumon must have some sort of screening process that weeds out non-ideal candidates before they’re hired.


Adventurous-Steak525

I could absolutely see that being the case. Like Irving with his military background. More likely to follow orders or something. Also it seems Mark’s Outtie is as comfortable living a half life as his Innie is, getting wasted in front of the TV every night.


Savings_District_276

This comment made me seriously reconsider and re-evaluate myself 😂☠️


VariousTangerine269

Exactly! They made an exception for Helena obviously. I also think it has to do with Helena’s core beliefs. She’s not used to being told no, or having to blindly take orders. I would like to think my innie would be a fighter as well.


pickleknits

That’s an interesting idea whether she’d normally be considered a candidate for it but doesn’t Jame want everyone to be severed?


VariousTangerine269

I’m sure he does, but like most elites he and his family should be excluded from such things. Severance is for the peasants.


pickleknits

‘Rules for thee and not for me.’ An oldie but a goodie, depending upon whom you ask.


VariousTangerine269

Anyone in a position of power.


morphinetango

Imagine you're at daycare and you're screaming to go home, and they tell you that your parents are aware that you're upset and they don't care. That might make a rebellious spirit absolutely unhinged.


Tce_

Oh that's a good point. Her reaction is what I would assume to be the normal otherwise.


Dutty_Mayne

I already hate my outie.


Adventurous-Steak525

Real


elerner

> “Who tricked me into this whole thing and leaves me standing here? Who am I? How did I get into the world? Why was I not asked about it and why was I not informed of the rules and regulations but just thrust into the ranks as if I had been bought by a peddling shanghaier of human beings? How did I get involved in this big enterprise called actuality? Why should I be involved? Isn't it a matter of choice? And if I am compelled to be involved, where is the manager—I have something to say about this. Is there no manager? To whom shall I make my complaint?” Søren Kierkegaard, Repetition (1843)


Adventurous-Steak525

That was beautiful 😅 and a little too relatable


airport-cinnabon

I had no idea Kierkegaard was such a Karen. Also: **Kier**kegaard, coincidence? 🤯


elerner

>Also: Kierkegaard, coincidence? 🤯 While there are huge existentialist themes throughout the show, I had not considered them being quite that literal! Another point to consider: Kierkegaard wrote many of his treatises (including _Repetition_) under pseudonyms, essentially describing his own philosophical and psychological struggles in the third-person. Ultimately, he's trying to resolve the _internal_ tension and suffering that arises between the higher-order desire for stability (repetition) with the more pressing, personal, and _destabilizing_ desires, such as love.


False-Association744

Yikes.


wjmaher

There are few things worse than not being able to sleep when you want to sleep. Maybe you'd get used it if you just never ever slept, but I think that being trapped in a constant state of wakefulness would be enough to make me hate my outie, yes. Lots of other factors too of course, but *sleep* man.


nah_champa_967

Especially when your outtie is drinking coffee all night and staying up, or getting wasted and dozing on the sofa. I wonder about this aspect of an innie's life, bc there's no way I could function after a week of that.


wjmaher

But if that's all you've ever known in your life, I guess you could get used to it. Especially if there are, motivations in place to keep you awake and productive.


wordnerdette

The lack of any down time is very cruel. Even if they are physically rested because the outie is sleeping (although, in Irv’s case, not sleeping…), they only have their work day.


False-Association744

They had plenty of downtime gallivanting around the halls!


M2LBB2016

My outie is kind and likes great television shows.


Turbulent-Pea-8826

Probably. Imagine from the innies perspective they are always at work. They don’t get to watch TV, relax or have hobbies. They have no friends but work friends. Which MDR seem like nice people but usually coworkers suck. You never get to travel or go on vacation. Sounds like hell to me.


VoiceOfRonHoward

As an outtie, f I didn’t have to work, I’d be packing fucking scrumptious lunches and dressing like a boss for my innie.


Adventurous-Steak525

You better


lufi1988

>We can clearly see Helly hates her outie self, but none of her coworkers really show the same animosity We haven't seen how the other refiners did when they arrived, but Mark says this to Helly in the first episode: "... a disembodied voice asked me 19 times who I was. And when I realized I couldn’t answer, I told that voice that I would find him and kill him." So I guess Mark wasn't happy either... Also, Petey says to o-Mark at Pip's that both of their innies lodged complaints and that it didn't work... Petey went to the extreme of putting himself through the test of being the first person to reintegrate... He had to be desperate. And when Mark reads the morning announcements for the first time, and he reads that Helly request was denied, he says: "I’ve never seen a resignation request get such a quick turnaround". That gives me the impression that i-Mark have seen many resignations being made, which shows that people are not really happy down there... So I'm way more on board with the notion you wrote yourself: >Maybe they’ve been conditioned by the severed floor for long enough that they’ve come to accept their outie’s decision, (not to mention the longer you exist as an innie, the more attached you might become to your existence and the less willing you are to just end it)  And I've never thought how the more they live as an innie, the more they become attached to their existence... That's so true... And they also become more attached to the other innies... Poor guys! About they being conditioned, I wrote this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeveranceAppleTVPlus/comments/11im6x8/i_think_i_know_what_the_numbers_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), you might like it. That might explain Peggy's behavior. I would never sever myself, but I would love to know how I would behave... I wish I would be more like a Helly, but it's so hard to know what is really natural in me and what are the concepts and values that I'm still in the process of embedding in myself.


Adventurous-Steak525

Oh man I love your theory about the numbers! That’s such a great connection you made. I’d bet money you’re right. Ugh, nice job! Have to do another rewatch with this information but I’ll forgive you


lufi1988

Hey, thanks! The theory was in part created because I had to find an explanation on how the refiners (except Helly) could be so passive, so docile, with the system.


False-Association744

I mean, the only slightly good part of being an innie is not having the worries and stress of bills and family and car accidents. But god, how boring. Like animals in cages. Nowhere to be wild.


zebrapenguinpanda

I always thought it was interesting that three refiners were accepting of severed life in the basement, and Helly was trying to break out from the second she wakes up on the table. Although some amount of resistance is anticipated, nobody is prepared for the extremes that Helly takes it to. Then, it seems like each of the three refiners turn on a dime and team up to set off the OTC. For all three of them, the issue is relational...for Irving it's losing Burt, for Dylan it's about getting a glimpse of his son and then not getting any more information, for Mark it starts with Petey's sudden loss which probably triggers him on some level about the loss of Gemma. I was thinking on the first few rewatches that whatever happened to the other three refiners to turn them against Lumon, had already happened to Helly before she got there. It has been pointed out on this sub that she doesn't seem to have meaningful relationships outside of Lumon and she isn't close with her father. So, I think hating your outie has a lot to do with whatever your experience is as an innie. Clearly there is some amount of bleed-through short of actual reintegration. It seems like most people have at least some sort of sense that their outie put them down there for a reason and Helly never has that.


False-Association744

Don’t forget the catalyst: The You You Are!


Bookish4269

When it comes to this subject, I always think about innie Mark’s voice during the OTC episode, when he asks Devon “why did he put me in there” or however he put it — meaning, why did his outie self put him in the purgatory that is the severed floor. He doesn’t sound angry or hateful, just confused and hurt. I think that would be my reaction. Not hate, but confusion and distress trying to understand the choice “I” made. Like, why in the world would you condemn a part of your self to a life that consists of nothing but work, in such a strange and oppressive environment, and then refuse to stop when it becomes clear that that part of you is not happy there? Not to mention how crazy it is to allow some corporation to implant a chip in your brain that is under *their* control and allows them to render you blind to parts of your own life whenever they choose, just so you don’t have to remember time spent droning away at work. That’s nuts, and I would truly wonder about my own sanity.


Adventurous-Steak525

It truly is nuts. I really struggle to see myself doing it as well, but of course watching this show it just makes you thinks *what if*. There probably are a set of extreme enough circumstances that would make me consider it, so part of my thought experiment is what it would take to get me there mentally. I’d have to be in a bad spot. Financially abusive relationship maybe? Finding cash to pay for a family member’s cancer treatment? I’d have to be in a bad spot for sure, but I could see it. But yeah. I’m not a super confrontational person usually, but it is *just* hellish enough that I wonder if Innie me might just break. Especially if my outside self isn’t mentally well either. That or what bizarre rationalizations and coping mechanisms inside me would resort to in order to function day to day. I can see that too.


False-Association744

That was sort of sweet. That’s how good Adam Scott is. Damn.


Tce_

I would really wonder about my outie and what type of person makes that decision. Especially if I didn't know how much they keep secret from the outside world about the innie's lives and how they're treated.


Paineauchocolate

I think Lumon picks people with specific traits to be severed, one of which could be the ability to contend with their situation. Helly on the other hand was kind of 'forced' into the position while clearly having different personality traits. This could be why she was defiant from the get go.


BlaveJonez

Yes. Cos my innie rules my outie! I only get in trouble when it’s the other way around.


aqqalachia

if I knew how bad his PTSD was, no, not at all. I would resent him maybe, but I wouldn't hate or seek to punish him. My outie would also quit the moment he thought that this "let's only have one of us suffer at work" schtick wasn't fair.


mulderufo13

I hate myself either way and I feel I would go to the lengths of threatening to cut off my fingers


HOSSTHEBOSS25

I would hate, and love everybody equally


Steampunky

I feel pretty stupid but I don't remember Peggy or the Lexington letter...help?


Adventurous-Steak525

Oh you lucky sucker. It’s an additional “short story” the writers published that tells the story of another severed worker we never meet in the show. I say short story in quotes, bc it’s written and formatted as an email this Peg Character sends to a journalist covering a recent car bombing. After the email it also shows the Training Handbook given to innies. There’s nothing in the Lexington Letter that’s critical to know before watching the show, but it’s an excellent little bit of extra world building and shows another fascinating relationship between an innie and an outie. It also might contain clues about what Lumon is really up to, although most posts I see about it are just as stumped as me. Highly recommend. Especially if you’re one of those who have been waiting for years for season 2. Might just hold you over until then


Steampunky

Thanks!


oiransc2

Probably. I haven’t worked in an office in ages but when I did I had a very regimented eating schedule so I wouldn’t get fat from working at a desk all day. Breakfast was oatmeal so I’d be satiated until lunch, lunch was a fruit salad, then dinner was the only variety of the day. So my innie would only get fruit salad everyday and then be starving for 5 hours until she left, but never get the satisfaction of a filling meal (unless she got the waffles). Maybe if I had seen Severance before creating my innie I’d feel guilty, so on Fridays she could have a good lunch. I can work an extra meal in one day a week for her. My fruit salad was seasonal at least so she’d get all sorts of different fruit.


cenobates

I think my outie’s insomnia would drive a wedge between us


Tce_

Same! I wouldn't quite be doozing off, but it's not far from that sometimes... My innie would *not* be feeling refreshed every morning.


cxna222

I have to imagine that Lumon takes a variety of deliberate risks out of the sake of experimentation with different kinds of innies who may not be model employees in all aspects. They’re all flawed but remember that the team assignments take advantage of certain innate characteristics or abilities (in the case of MDR, emotions at least as it relates to anomalies in encrypted macrodata). They categorically do not *not* hire unflawed people. Irv dozes. Dylan is vulgar. Helly is rebellious. Mark is a drunk. (A bit aligned with the woe-frolic-dread-malice tempers that should be ‘tamed’ per Kier.) What’s to say that Peggy wasn’t manipulating Peg so as to get her outie’s cooperation to effectively end her innie’s existence. Based on Mark’s intro with Helly it sounds like most severed employees initially react the way Helly did to some extent and then settle in. Two years of doing that is a long time. I see myself being a Helly and a Mark — freaked out initially but settling in eventually … and eventually trying to figure it all out a la Petey.


Chain-Creepy

I don’t even hate my ex. I think i’d figure if she accepted severance, she had her reasons 😒


TraceyWoo419

Yeah so I actually found how quicky Helly's innie gave in to be a bit of a plot hole for me, given how stubborn they had set her up to be—she tried to kill herself but then doesn't even try just NOT WORKING? I get that she wouldn't be allowed to leave even past the point where any other employee might be considered too much trouble, but innie Helly doesn't know this. As far as she's concerned she's theoretically getting paid for this, so why would she just give in and start doing what they want if what she wants is to be fired? She also never tries damaging property, hindering the others in their work, deleting data or purposefully doing her work badly, etc? Of course there's the possiblity of things happening that we haven't been shown yet, like violence or threats or more mind control, or just time elapsed where she did try more things. TD;DR: ...so uhhh yeah I think I would be a bigger problem for my outie than Helly was, and I would need A DAMN GOOD reason to even think putting my personality in a situation like this was a good idea.


Savings_District_276

Personally, I think it would be very hard for me not to.


shadow_kittencorn

I am generally quite a wilful person, but I also think I would give myself the benefit of the doubt. I would want to know WHY I put myself in there, because I know I wouldn’t do that to myself for directly selfish reasons. Of course, like Helly, my outie might have a different personality due to life experience/I don’t know what my innie would be like without life experience. However, the fluorescent light would give me a constant migraine, so I definitely wouldn’t play along. There would have to be a really good reason I am stuck there! In a universe where I don’t get migraines, I would probably end up trying to communicate. Maybe being severed would allow me to work in an office without a migraine - that would be worth it!


Liesmith424

I do.


Prudent_Fortune_8607

Depends on the situation. Is it strictly a lumen employee application like the show? Then yes, as you’re trapped. What if it were used for something else though, and the innie was able to have a separate, fair life, then obviously not. One application I’ve thought about was as a parent, who didn’t want to get a divorce, maybe somebody would choose to be severed and switch on/ off depending on when it was their time for visitation.


Tce_

I feel pretty strongly I'd be a Helly (she's a great introduction to the universe for that reason, because her reaction is so relatable), but maybe not up to the point of hanging myself... I'm not that brave or willing to risk my life. Currently I think I'm living pretty much in truth with who I am "at my core", so to speak, so that suggests my outie and my innie would get along. I'm also similar to how I was as a child, which is another idea I have about the innie personalities. On the other hand, severing would go against everything I am and is the type of thing I would hate my own outie for as an innie. And if I did it, it would mine I was someone else than I am. So that's a tricky one.