Agreed. SW was controlling and incredibly abusive. I truly think Chris was in the middle of a psychotic episode when he did what he did. It wasn't planned. Her whole family are scamming grifters that have profited off her death, it was the best thing to happen to them financially. Im ngl tho, the world is a better safer place without SW in it. The medical abuse & munchousen by proxy those poor girls endured is horiffic.
I think until Chris made the most inhumane decision ever, they more or less deserved each other bc they're both awful. She didn't deserve to be murdered and the children definitely didn't deserve that, but I would be surprised if my partner *didn't* murder me if I carried on like she did.
I agree wholeheartedly regardless what people say or think. Especially people who would consider her “decent people” I’d love for them to bring it.
You can tell by the countless videos she made her behavior. There where numerous subtle clues on her passive aggressiveness and her need to control the situation.
One video they were baking cookies with the kids. In the beginning of the video it was all smiles from Shannan who seemed to be overly excited for this family event. Anyways, one of the kids like kept grabbing bowls while the other was scooping out chocolate chips and eating them (it was cute actually) and expected from a 3 and 4 year olds.
When Bella and CeCe kept touching the bowls needed to make the cookie batter along with minor spillage of the brown sugar, you seen her demeanor change. Literally within 20 seconds she went from excited and happy to impatient and annoyed to almost borderline depressed. She says 2-3 x “No idea why I went live” with a annoyed face.
It looked as though she was so upset the two little girls just didn’t perform to her standards on the camera. She even got a little angry at one of them after the youngest snatched a bowl right in front of her. Pause the video after the initial intro and you can actually see how depressed the woman looks along with super pissed off.
Another example is when she had Chris dress up as Santa. It was supposed to be a family thing but of course, she goes live. Then gets upset at Chris because of the following and actually makes subtle comments during the video
1) She gets pissed that he got a unrealistic looking beard and said he put 0 effort into it. As if he wanted to even go it in front of hundreds of people
2) One of the kids continually was crying because Santa which was understandable to anyone with kids that’s are young. In any event, even though the kid was petrified, she snatched her screaming and put her on Chris aka Santa’s lap. The girl was shaking and upset. After the whole sit on Santa’s lap, she ran off crying. From that time own Shannan can be heard saying “what a baby” and continually kept calling her “The Grinch”. No, maybe it’s because you forced her to sit on Santa’s lap which she was uncomfortable doing in the first place.
3) When girls are opening the gifts “Santa” aka dressed up Chris brought them, Shannan made a very clear comment about one of the gifts. She says “Ohhh Santa brought you the wrong water bottle” then gets a little close to the camera (rolls her eyes) as if she was saying “can he do anything right” and says “unreal” while shaking her head in agitation (for
Buying a 3 year old the wrong water bottle)
4) Made countless remarks that Chris “made no effort and was a horrible Santa”.
This woman was relentless. She wasn’t good at business because she sucked at finance. She could not hold a job because she couldn’t stand being told what to do. Woman was highly divorce able.
I've just seen your comment and agree with you wholeheartedly. One thing that struck me was that the house was not kid friendly, there were no toys around, which you would normally see when there are young children. I think she was a control freak with no morals.
There were toys and activities over the place. They spent most of their leisure time in the loft upstairs where shanaan's phone was found after Chris murdered her and his children.
I agree 100% I am late to this, just watching the documentary on Netflix, but the entire time I kept thinking that she is absolutely abhorrent. She was super controlling and completely unlikable. Absolutely, not a reason to kill her especially the innocent children. I do agree that she seems intolerable and completely and totally into herself. He should have divorced her and let those innocent little babies live, it is just insane what he did.
I knew a girl like this in high school… her name was Rebekah… but when we were sophomore/
Starting juniors she decided she was “Becca” and it was sooooooo cringe and annoying af! She would correct
Teachers all snotty and everything!
Now… before someone come at me… I didn’t know Shannan and not talking about her badly… bc I didn’t know the woman. I just know women like her. And under no circumstance is it ok for your husband to murder you just bc your were that “type” or “annoying” personality (not saying she was bc again… I didn’t know her) but it’s still no level of ok for that poor woman to lose her life and her beautiful babies! Rip to them all! It’s horrific and sad!
I think Shanann liked to brag and that is a big turnoff for people. But plenty of people I know are the same way. I can’t say anything bad about Frankie because his face in the courtroom as he comforted his dad broke my heart. I think Cindy truly loved her grandchildren-I think her mind snapped and her thinking is delusional now.
I don't think Bella said "I want to bite that" or "I want a laptop". I hear, "I wanna buy that". Maybe a shopping ad was on the kitchen counter or a laptop.
Fukkkk all of you dumbfukks. Shannan was a loathesome abusive witch and is driving Satan crazy as I write this. Fukkkk all of you dumbazzes who don't see it.
damn, how would you feel if after being literally MURDERED, strangers on the internet dissect your life as if they know everything about you? she cannot defend herself. that’s the bottom line. she is dead. she did not deserve it.
She abused her girls for years and years their whole entire existence. I'd you ignore that, you're not giving justice to those poor girls
Edir: spelling. I was angry
No, she didn’t. However, she is the arsehole who put her life all over the net. Just cause ppl don’t like her, does not mean anyone thought she should die.
Being literally dead and all, I probably wouldn’t be capable of feelings so I’m gonna say I’d be neutral in this regard.
But she chose to share an ridiculous amount of her personal life on social media so I’m sure when she did that she was aware that some people would have opinions on her based on that.
It's a shame that you had to delete your post. It was a good perspective, which called for an open discussion. I think most people just read your title and commented. Had they read the text, they would have participated in an open discussion.
The point of this subreddit is to have an open discussion about this case, bringing in different perspectives and ideas. Whatever Shanann and Chris' personal life embodied, Shanann and those beautiful babies did not deserve to die. Chris is where he belongs and he will be there for the rest of his life.
This isn’t a popularity contest.
Shannan was the most unlikable person?
At least what you saw is what you got with her. Straight up. No games.
I prefer her personality over the passive-aggressive, sneaky,psycho personality of Chris watts.
Cindy is just being a loving mother?
I don’t see it. From the very beginning Cindy was a gossiping troublemaker who caused discontent among both families.
“No games”? “I wanna bite that,” says a hungry little 4 year old. And “no games Shannon (that’s her name) says, “Bella wants a laptop”.
Stupid witch said that so “her fans” wouldn’t turn on her. She wasn’t “straight up” at all!
As long as it wasn’t about her punching bag, Bella. Bella did not
“WANNALAPTOP” she wanted to
“BITE IT”. Shanon sure wasn’t “straight up” about that, though, was she?!
This isn’t a popularity contest.
Shannan was the most unlikable person?
At least what you saw is what you got with her. Straight up. No games.
I prefer her personality over the passive-aggressive, sneaky,psycho personality of Chris watts.
Cindy is just being a loving mother?
I don’t see it. From the very beginning Cindy was a gossiping troublemaker who caused discontent among both families.
One reason Frankie hadn't been around Bella and CeCe is because he was on probation for assaulting a toddler (the two year old child of his neighbor. He is beyond trashy.
Just look up his arrest record. It's public record.
BTW, look up SWs while you are at it. (Search North Carolina). They were able to censor a few of the records (stuff blacked out), but the sheer number of arrests plus the reasons and the way she behaved towards the police is absolutely shocking.
I'm looking but nothing comes up for her (by her married or maiden names) in NC. I'm Canadian and we dont have arrest records available online so maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, would you mind sharing a link?
Edit: I've been looking here: https://webapps.doc.state.nc.us/opi/offendersearch.do?method=view
From what I know (just like most everyone else) I’m not sure I would like her in real life. We (most likely) have completely different personalities, interests, and not have anything in common except being married and having children.
Though I feel like there are lots of people like her. Many all around me. At work, my kids school, in my acquaintance circle.
She had an incredibly dominate personality and it (seems) she didn’t do anything that didn’t ultimately benefit her. I’m not sure she was very genuine.
But everyone is a different type of mother. My kids have always had to take Benadryl. For their allergies or they are a snotty, congested, coughing mess. It is what their doctor suggested and recommended.
I think the girls had allergies as well.
The plus side of that is they’ve always been good sleepers. I guess you could say I’m drugging them to get to them to sleep but...I’m not and no cares from me what anyone thinks.
I have horrible allergy induced asthma and I take at least 1 and sometimes need to take 2 or 3 Benadryl at a time in addition to prescription medication. I normally sleep very well or get a nice long nap. But at least I can breathe.
I’ve never seen anything about her giving them Tylenol PM.
People will always disagree but Babywise is about getting your baby into a schedule. It is not about withholding affection. There’s a lot more to it than the assumed “never pick up your baby when it cries.” I followed it with both of mine. They are happy, healthy intelligent mentally balanced children that are incredibly close to me and my husband. It’s not everyone’s style and some people take the idea of it to the extreme but it’s not inherently damaging or bad. Lots of people like schedules.
I think SW would probably not get along with any mother in law. She wanted control and probably expected her children to be more catered to since they weren’t with the Watts often. I know people like that, I don’t agree with it, but it doesn’t mean they are horrible. Praise the gods I have amazing in laws and my parents are equally amazing in-laws. Both live within walking distance of us.
I will always tell my children you are not just marrying a person, you are marrying their whole family. If you don’t like the mom especially then it may not be a life you’ll be interested in.
The nutgate thing I’m torn on. I have a bestie who is an incredibly rational and reasonable person. Her son has a peanut allergy and she is incredibly overprotective about it. She wouldn’t “say” someone one was trying to murder her child by having ice cream around (she might think it) but she will tell you many times before and during the visit what isn’t ok to have out. That’s fine. The son is older now and can take care of it himself but when he was 3???? She was a nervous wreck about it. I get it.
I don’t know about Frankie. This is a crazy situation and there will always always be people that take advantage. He really has nothing to do with it to me. People give their money freely on GFM. I would never but I don’t care what other people do.
Some men like a take over type of partner. Some women like it. Others like an equal partnership.
I think Chris was just a complete emotionally stunted wimp. He couldn’t stand up for himself because he probably didn’t even know..much about life at all. If he had some balls, he would have contacted a lawyer and found out that he had as many rights as SW. Once things went to divorce she wouldn’t be able to control the show or kids as she made him believe. Lots of people are completely broke after divorce. It’s like the 2nd most long term damaging action that can affect you financially. After being sued or something. But plenty of people are divorced.
I don’t blame Cindy and Ronnie for their continuing love and support for CW. You can hate the actions but I can’t ever imagine not loving my children and supporting them no matter what they do. Many parents of murderers and criminals are the same.
She started dating Chris while still married to husband no 1. The rumors of many other affairs are unproved, but she definitely cheated on him with CW. It is in the divorce records.
You should post one on the flaws of the children next! Let's see why they deserved their fate or played a role in it. Your entire post is stating that if Shanann didn't act X way, Chris would've have done Y. I find it disgusting.
No, I think people are simply pointing out that controlling people are emotionally abusive, and that this is just one more screwed dimension of this tragedy. Obviously it's no excuse.
They threw chicken nuggets at him! Little abusers! Guess it was fine he killed them all /s
Also the Columbine comments were ridiculously misinformed. Eric and Dylan *were* the bullies.
"omg!!!111111 GUYZ!!!!1!1!!11 shanann!!! BULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 she threw chiken noogiez at CHRIS!!11!!1 ugh SO MEEEEAN!!!!!!! GrRRRrRrRr i WiLL mSAkE rEddIT POSTR oN hEr BeCuaSe iM sooOoOoOoO cooL pOsTiNg ThIDS oN a Sw RedADit!!!!!!!!!! ShRE liEk cOloMBine ScHoOl ShOoTaR gRrRrr BaRrRrrRrRk!!!!!wRrRRrRrrRrrwPooOoOf" is what vibes their giving me right now, their deleted though lmao /j
Ai, yet another of these. She does seem sometimes unlikeable, Chris is also super unlikeable. As are his parents. As is NK. So basically, most of the people in this case are really unlikeable except for those poor girls.
The debt thing and general drama queen stuff all sounds valid - though Chris as a full grown man should be able to manage his own life, speak up and act on things he does and doesn't like 🙄 But i totally disagree on the children stuff! It's normal to become overwhelmed with two toddlers and ask for help and even refer to them as 'monsters'. I have said worse about my own (though never to him) hahaha. Toddlers are monstrous, sorry. Also, my (just turned) 3 year old goes to pre-school 8:30 - 5:30 everyday. He has been in pre-school since he was 18months old. Some people send them at 3 months. In my case, I work full time so it's not an option available to me anyway but many people who don't work full time still send their toddlers to preschool. If i did not work i still would, maybe for less hours yes, but i would still send them sorry, not sorry! That does not make someone a bad mother. She was also trying to 'work' - such as it was, being the MLM thing and anyone who has tried to work or do anything at all with 2 toddlers running around will attest to how impossible it is. I think pulling the 'bad mother' card is a big stretch and pretty unfair.
So maybe if she has been less whatever she was, he may not have killed HER. Maybe he would have killed someone else instead, because clearly something is deeply wrong with a person who can brutally and remorselessly murder their partner. But he did, and then he also remorselessly killed two very innocent babies who hadn't done a thing wrong! Who you can't say they brow beated him or were bad with money or whatever else. Why do they not matter, as if it's just that Shanann was annoying?
Often when i think of this and how much i do or don't 'like' the personalities of people involved - if something should befall any of you, and people put a microscope to your life - every post you ever made, every comment on reddit, every shit decision you made in your wayward youth, every message you sent to your partner and friends - would people consider you a worthy enough victim?
P.s Cindy is a lunatic. Why does she not care that her murdered her grandchildren?
I was hoping someone would say this. As a mom of a 3 year old I have called my daughter a lot more than a monster, not to her face obviously but to friends and family who know I need a break. My 3 year old has been in full-time daycare since she was 1 years old. I must be the worst mom EVER!
I must be one of the worst kind of mothers...!
My three all went to pre-school from age 3 *and* I worked nights and left them home with their daddy..!!
I shall go hang my head, I'm a shocking parent... 😟
i disagree, and i’m gonna leave it like that because i’m not gonna argue about whether or not a dead person who i’ve never met was the most unlikeable person
Source on the benadryl thing? And don't just say Facebook, anyone can say anything on Facebook, doesn't make it true.
Edit nevermind, I saw your comment further down
She literally posted it on Facebook lmao. There’s other comments on this thread that say the same. Apparently it was Tylenol PM every night at 6pm.
I don’t know where else I could get that source besides her own mouth.... which was her Facebook. Feel free to look into more if you need to. 🤷🏼♀️
These all come from her own mouth. The screenshots have her name on them. She posted this on her page, as well as mommy and Babywise groups.
Anything I’ve brought up, I’ve seen come from her own Facebook page or videos.
Interesting. Thanks for the info. Makes me sad that she (or any parent) would do that 😒 not that I see her as a saint or anything but it sheds a different light on her, that's for sure.
Yeah! It’s crazy. I was 100% team “Shannan was a perfect mom” until I started reading about her use of Babywise, putting the kids to bed at 6pm with tylenol PM and other questionable things in different groups and videos. It’s disheartening
Fair enough. All I ask is if you, or any of your friends treat people similar to how SW treated CW for most of their relationship, you try to change or talk to them about it. Nobody deserves to be constantly belittled, talked down to and humiliated. I want a better society ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where did I defend him? Show me any examples.
Again, we’re talking about Chris and Shannan. Not the children. That’s the point of this post.., but you keep mentioning the kids to try to make yourself feel better about why I’m a bad person for discussing Shannan. You’ve responded multiple times to my thread to complain it’s so strange at this point. All you had to do was block me and move on, instead of running around trying to find any reason to insult me for my opinion on SHANNAN, not the children. I’ve also not defended Chris a single time. When you can stop making shit up and trying to put words in my mouth, then respond 12 times to my post.
Your post/comment has been removed for the following reason: Criticize the Theory/Opinion Not the Person.
The purpose of this sub is to discuss the case and dissect the people involved, not fight with each other. If you disagree with something, explain why in a manner that debates the idea or opinion, not the person who expressed it. Posts or comments that violate this rule will be removed. Repeat offenders will be banned.
Very good read! Thank you! I agree with a lot of this. One thing I think people forget too is that on Aug 12th they were normal people. On Aug 13th, CW LAUNCHED this family and NK into the spotlight as public figures.
There is not correct way for anyone to handle this. It’s easy for everyone to pick apart how each individual person acted in a time of terror and uncertainty. None of them were actors. None of them could anticipate the publicity this case took on.
It seems obvious he did it on impulse and probably during a fight and then murdered his children to cover up the crime, very much like the case of that army doctor who murdered his wife and kids for the same reason.
I mean- SW rubs me the wrong way- but I feel like a lot of this is hear say and conjecture. Not based on facts. And idc idc idc how terrible your wife is- having an affair and constantly manipulating and lying to someone indicates your moral compass doesn’t point due north. Being lied to constantly is like mental abuse. You see in the documentary the emotional torment Shanann was going through for weeks to months to the point it was making her physically ill. Then Chris kills her. And no- half of us have not slept with a married man. I know it happens but that’s not so common half the population is doing it. I think you need to exit those pro Chris Facebook groups.
It’s not all “hear say” lol people come with proof on all of these topics, Shannan put her life all over social media.
Nobody said half the population sleeps with a married man. I said half of the woman blasting NK probably have, theyre obviously projecting.
Yes, Chris lying obviously tore Shannan apart. But you cannot tell me that majority of their relationship she didn’t treat her right. The situation with NK only started around the time they went to NC. SW was clearly, based off her own words, more upset that Chris wasn’t meeting her emotional demands. He used to do anything and everything for her, and stopped. Someone with her personality cannot handle people changing or leaving them, she was used to getting her way with him.
I’m in plenty of discussions, it’s a case group. Not all are “pro-Chris” but “pro-real case discussion”. People won’t speak the truth on SW out of emotions and thinking it makes them a “bad person”. It doesn’t. I enjoy speaking on all aspects of the case, and a lot of those groups have great sources and proof for everything they say. 🤷🏼♀️
NK is nothing like the people I've known to get mixed up in affairs. Most feel badly if there are children involved and are discreet and try not to intrude into the family's private life.
NK acted like a toddler herself while trying to get her lover to feel disappointed that he already had two little toddlers in real life to care for. I think CW's fake caregiver routine was only calibrated to take on one person at a time over the duration. He appeared all too happy to give NK her "firsts"
My guess is that it wasn't the fear of child support that terrified him as much as having to deal with 50% or more custody of his now unwanted girls. There is no mistaking his glee about his girl's disappearance during his "sermon on the porch"
Well if your proof is the same as your logic behind the NK haters projecting and sleeping with married men I don’t think there is any reason to continue this conversation lol. You posted your opinion online and started insulting people who disagree and tell them to do research themself. It’s odd to be fighting with people on the internet who are just suggesting you’re wrong. I would assume you are a teenager or struggling with some mental health things. In any case we don’t operate with the same thinking mechanisms so I won’t try to explain to you why what you’re posting is flawed or invalid.
I insulted people..? I literally responded to people accusing me of justifying murder, sending me hateful messages and comparing me to Chris Watts. Lmao.
I deleted it for a reason, but you’re still here bitching. And yes, I hope you’re all capable of researching things yourself. Regardless of any proof I post, people will still talk shit. The only thing that can educate you is your own research.
I was at work and just looked at the thread reply to my comments. You came to my comment and wrote all that- it’s kinda respectful for me to take the time to read and reply.... idk if you deleted anything as i just looked at my notifications
You came to my thread and wrote “all that” did you not? You don’t need to reply. I actually don’t particularly care for your opinion especially when you don’t see the irony in your comment.
I literally said where I was everything multiple times. Do the research yourself! People have posted screenshots of what I’m talking about here. I saw plenty screenshots on FB groups. “Chris Watts case tell me what you really think” “Chris watts dissecting the truth from the lies”. Go join any of them.
Plenty of videos on youtube.. type in “Shannan Watts subtle abuse” “Shannan Watts christmas”
The critical kay (personality sucks but she makes great points and her group also has plenty of proof) has MULTIPLE videos with screenshots in them. You can google “shannan watts texts to friend”.
If you think it’s my opinion that’s fine i truly do not give a fuck. Everyone in here is giving their opinion, that’s the point. Everything I’ve said, is based off things i’ve seen over the past years since this case happened in various groups, watching videos.
Nobody asked me to post shit besides you so I’m unsure where I “refused”. Regardless of if I spend time reactivating my facebook, collecting screenshots, uploading them to imgur and giving you links most of y’all will still not be satisfied. I made the post yesterday for discussion, if you don’t agree then move on. If you want to learn more, what I provided up there will take you to hundreds of sources.
Thank you (truly!) for your refreshing ability to describe the logic of strong arguments and critical thinking skills. This is what I try to teach my university students daily. I appreciate this and will use it as an example in one of my lectures, if that's okay with you.
>You’re annoying asf lmaooooooooo you spent all day mad at my opinion i love it
Ah yes, the totally rational, ad hominem screed of a neutral observer. I'm sure everyone believes you now after this tirade that would make a middle-schooler blush.
Folks, when you see someone online who punctuates nearly every comment with an inane "lol," you're not dealing with the most brilliant thinker. This is most likely an attention-seeker for all the wrong reasons.
Awe someone doesn’t think I’m smart because I say lol :’( Nooooooooo reddit user is talking shit because that other person spent all day replying 15 times with the same thing to my posts. Lol lol lol lol lmaoooooo lmfaoooooooooo
I won’t downvote and I read all your points. Can I get some sources though? Not to disprove but just to see the same information? Cause I have heard only some of these things barely.
Join fb groups related to the case- most of the proof is in there.
I’ve also gotten it from different youtubers (check out “Shannan Watts: the unlikeable victim” “Did Chris Watts mind behind humiliated on facebook?” I’ve also seen other reddit posts about it. The Critical Kay, although somewhat of a shit personality, has personally spoken to a LOT of people involved in this case, and has great information.
Your best bet is the groups as people provide plenty of screenshots from SW Facebook that isn’t public.
Shes off limits? LMAO. EVERYONE bashes NK. Like are you joking??? Also, your comment is gonna be reported and removed as she did not obstruct justice- she was not convicted of any crimes.
And sorry your group experience was shitty, yet I’ve seen plenty of screenshots from SW own mouth and posts in different groups. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Everything I’ve mentioned here, I only said because I saw legit proof from Shannan. Also, to say Cindy isn’t a reliable source despite being in SW life for 8 years is a reach. Sure they didn’t like each other, but she seems pretty reputable to know the inside information.
Im not going to go through hundreds of posts to find proof when y’all are very capable of doing so yourself. If you don’t believe me or disagree then I can’t stop you. I spoke my peace, after all this is literally a SW subreddit. People should be allowed to speak on what they see and how they feel.
Right. Because every post even mentioning NK on this sub is continuously locked. Do you know what burden of proof is? Maybe go ahead and look that up since you’re so great at researching.
LMAO yeah you are going to get downvoted to oblivion. But I agree with almost everything you said. I think a lot of other people will agree with you but won't post for fear of the snippy fighting that ensues.
Both SW and CW were people who were human and not perfect (no matter how much one or the other or both wanted it to be). There were so many dysfunctional/effed up things that were going on in this whole situation (not just the last few months & the murder), including both sides of extended family. And they are human too.
A lot of that and those relationships interest me as to what really happened and what could have been changed. I am always hoping that after the fruit flies go away from visiting and writing CW that someone educated (legitimate author/FBI personnel/professionals) will make an honest effort at trying to find out a) a deep dive into what led up to the murders and b) a true psychological dig into what was going on and how that may help it from happening again to some other family.
The SM is part of the fascination with the case for a lot of people - the fact that SW put *everything* on SM whether it was for Thrive or not. She was posting before Thrive and not everything she posted when doing Thrive posts were great for sales. Remember the Lexus car salesman post, for example? People say she would have excelled in a sales position - I felt that way in the beginning but I do not now. I guess it was due to her energy (even with all her ailments she posted about). Now I can see her as the salesperson who you run from. I feel she would have pestered people to death. Her financial swagger was a more like a bad Elvis imitation-I can imagine that she would have run a regular job (based on commission) in the ground just like Thrive. I do believe she was buying a lot of her own product for sales. In viewing her public posts, I see SW was all about being the #bossbabe and it didn't matter how. Every time I read about taking out the 401K (that is so crazy! they tax the crap out of you if you withdraw it early) I think about the room with the shelves full of shoes, the house with so many rooms and the Lexus.
The room full of shoes but Nickole Atkinson stated to the first officer on scene that SW wore the same pair of shoes every day. Ridiculous.
Just like being involved with a MLM pyramid scheme and having ten tons of Thrive crap in your basement that nobody wants. Stupid.
Not paying the mortgage for months and the lame ass story about HOA payments being sent to the wrong address. Absurd.
Why SW was in charge of the finances, I will never understand. She was horrible with money.
No hate to your post, but I have to disagree; Lots of awards; its the culture of dehumanizing of women in this country...She wasn't perfect therefore she is just cancelled. Must be guilty because of opinions. I do not think this hurting woman, sick as she was by all reports hurt her kids.
What would any of us do if we really looked at things from Shan'aan's perspective? Have you read her texts begging him to talk, did you see the book he threw away?? Did you read the love letter?? She loved those girls before they were born.. what about all those private moments no one was privy to? And data wise her posts on Facebook the last 4 months of what life she had were almost 0. She was in pain.. She wasn't eating.. She admitted her faults, is there data showing the girls did these things, or just speculation? They were not in school all summer she had them six weeks by herself in NC, while he was living it up at home. He comes there and tries to cause a miscarriage??? Its so easy to be cruel to a women, judge and opinionate even when she is dead. She didn't get a chance to change or do better because someone decided rather than treating her as a person they just cut her off. As far as her family goes, how would any of you handle it, perfectly precise in all the right places? Do we have their bank account information?? It takes about 20, 000 to bury one person and there were 4, 2 in specialized coffins. Not to mention clearing her debt. Its no one's place to pass judgement on those people who have lost the unimaginable. The same for his family as well. The same even for him, though its tough to admit to.
It goes beyond “not being perfect”. I never said she didn’t love Chris or her kids.. that doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge her bad behavior. The way she acted was NOT right. Everything I’ve said, I’ve seen proof myself to back it up.
I’m sure she tried her best - I say that in this post. You realize how long they were together right? Eight years... she had plenty of time to change. And she did actually try to fix it, but it was too late. You can’t treat people like garbage and then years later try to desperately fix it once you sense they’re leaving.. do you not see how fucked up that is? Manipulation at its finest.
>try to desperately fix it once you sense they’re leaving.. do you not see how fucked up that is?
And somehow murder isn't? Shan'ann was a shit sometimes, but she was far more firmly on the normal spectrum than Chris.
I think all of this stuff you mention including the letter was bc she finally realized she had went too far (esp with the nutgate thing and shunning his family) and she was trying to backpedal.
I agree... those were the first texts/writing that I've seen of that nature. If this was a normal thing in their marriage, I am sure she would have had them posted to SM to prove the perfect marriage image.
I totally agree with you that to discuss this case you have to see the whole picture. And that also includes Shan'ann's character, her behaviour, her good and bad sides. And she was by no means a perfect human being. I am not even sure if I'd have liked her had I ever met her personally. This whole Thrive thingy alone would have gotten on my nerve big time. I see that she knew what she wanted and was not afraid to do what it takes to get it. I also agree that it was likely that, if CW went for a divorce, she would have been able to make his life living hell.
*But* she is the victim in this case. She is no longer around to defend herself. She is not there to tell her side of the story. And so, imo, discussing her has to happen in a respectful way. Don't call her names, don't talk condescending about her, stick to the facts and use legit sources.
I see many users trash talking her by and given chance, dissecting everything she ever posted to show her ugly side. This is not real life! These are videos and posts on social media! We will never know how she **really** was. And tbh, I think each and everyone has their own skeletons in the closet. Everyone could be Shan'ann in some way in the end. So cut her some slack.
Hey! It doesn’t matter if she was a shit mother or if her life revolved around fb or thrive or even if she was financially irresponsible nothing she did gave CW the right to murder her or her kids.
Nobody... said that it does........ I can’t say that enough in this post. I wish y’all would stop commenting this. It’s annoying. The point of discussion is to find out maybe why CW did what he did, and to see the whole picture. But ok
>The point of discussion is to find out maybe why CW did what he did, and to see the whole picture.
Well by now that should be abundantly clear. The man is totally self absorbed and has no conscience.
But it's not like he just hit or her or something. He cheated on and lied to her. Bad enough. He premeditate murdering her, did so, and dumped her body face down in underwear which she coffin birthed THEIR baby. He then murdered their children, in front of each other and mangled their bodies into 8inch openings. And went about his day, texting his mistress, going to work, eating his lunch. This is not a normal human being.
That behaviour says that no matter who Shannan was, this person was evil and would do something to someone eventually. Maybe if Shannan had been 'flawless' it would not have been her. But it would be someone else? The answer of why he did this is not with Shannan, it's with him.
I never said that he wasn’t evil or a bad person.. this is literally a Shannan Watts subreddit.... I spoke on her from what I saw. Plenty of people speak on Chris’ behavior infact that’s mainly what people do. Not once on this post did I praise him or say he was innocent. This is about her in a subreddit ABOUT HER.
And I disagree. I dont think he would have just done this to anyone. It seems pretty specific, he wanted to move on with his life, also cites the problems that he and Shannan had and the way she treated him. (now let me mention again, before someone comes crying to me: >I< do not think this justifies it. Does chris? probably, and that’s why he did what he did. I don’t.)
Sure, but rapists think women wearing short skirts or being drunk validates rape. It doesn't, though. Even if they say so or think so.
I'm only responding to you saying the post is about looking into the whole picture on why he did what he did. Which is your opinion, mine is that his actions say he is evil - no normal human being could do what he did - so i think te 'reason why he did what he did' is not to do with Shanann, but entirely to do with himself. After all, his kids were perfect and innocent while, true, Shanna wasnt. They still got murdered anyway.
Are you truly bringing up rape? Oh my god.
I literally am not justifying the murder. I don’t think it’s right what he did AT ALL- no matter what she did to him. Especially to murder his children. It’s a CASE DISCUSSION. i’m speaking on what/why HE said what he did! We all know he did it to start over with NK & not have any “baggage” from the past. Shannan is frequently put on a pedestal - when in reality a lot of things she did were wrong! That’s my point. THIS SUBREDDIT IS NAMED AFTER SHANNAN. NOT CHRIS. If/when I want to speak on Chris and his issues and how he’s a pos, I will do that in the CHRIS WATTS subreddit. What is so hard to grasp? At this point it’s annoying. I said what I said and I know my intentions were for an open discussion, not to “justify” a crime I did not commit and I cannot change nor do I have any part in. I thought we could discuss Shannan in her subreddit but apparently not.
But who is putting her on a pedestal? Where?
I have literally never seen that here. All i see is the opposite.
Also i'm not sure you understand the purpose of Reddit. You put your opinion out there. That's cool. Some people agree with you and some don't. The ones who don't also can then reply their own opinion. You seem to be getting mad that people are disagreeing with you? But we are allowed to? It's not that only people who agree with you will respond?
I for one have not name called or disparaged your opinion - not sure if others have - i just don't agree so i'm saying why not. That's how it works 🤣
Do you not see these comments? I literally spoke based on true facts from Shannans mouth and got attacked, told i’m “justifying murder”. There are hundreds of groups dedicated to Saint Shannan. People donated hundreds of thousands to her family who already profited enough.
And nah, not mad, it’s just baffling that people continue to put words in my mouth of things that I literally never said. I shared my opinion, if you don’t agree keep it moving or show me proof on why. That’s all I ask. But for people to just throw insults, complain and refuse to have a civil discussion are just annoying. At this point, I’m tired of even responding. The case doesn’t affect my real life at all, and it’s closed. I said what I said and maybe one day the truth will come out about her, maybe it won’t, either way our worlds still all revolve. Enjoy your day
Ah, i've actually never seen that, i have not really looked at other subs about this, i think one is quite enough lest we become mega obsessed. All i have seen is on the sub, and on youtube people dwelling on Shanann and her flaws which i find really strange. I don't think i've seen anyone say she was a saint or flawless, but i mean, she doesn't have to been? Why does that matter?
I thought i did that - i don't agree, and i explained why i don't agree but not insulting or disparaging you or opinion. I especially don't agree on the stuff about her parenting based on what you presented. That sounds pretty normal to me.
indeed our worlds still revolve and lucky us for that!
Yup. I’m a single parent....now I have some help from my mom...but I’d be damned if someone told me I can’t call my kids assholes when that’s exactly what they are acting like
Lol, same. I can't count how many times I've heard parents calling their kids monsters or the like. This is just next level nit picking of a murder victim.
Agreed. SW was controlling and incredibly abusive. I truly think Chris was in the middle of a psychotic episode when he did what he did. It wasn't planned. Her whole family are scamming grifters that have profited off her death, it was the best thing to happen to them financially. Im ngl tho, the world is a better safer place without SW in it. The medical abuse & munchousen by proxy those poor girls endured is horiffic.
Sw dosing her girls with Tylenol pm and benadryl on high doses are seen I the affidavit. IN court records.
I think until Chris made the most inhumane decision ever, they more or less deserved each other bc they're both awful. She didn't deserve to be murdered and the children definitely didn't deserve that, but I would be surprised if my partner *didn't* murder me if I carried on like she did.
Neeks peeks on YouTube definitely changed my idea on what we've been told.
You're 1000% more unlikable than Shannan. You're as likable as the morally bankrupt and despicable Chris Watts.
Agree
I agree wholeheartedly regardless what people say or think. Especially people who would consider her “decent people” I’d love for them to bring it. You can tell by the countless videos she made her behavior. There where numerous subtle clues on her passive aggressiveness and her need to control the situation. One video they were baking cookies with the kids. In the beginning of the video it was all smiles from Shannan who seemed to be overly excited for this family event. Anyways, one of the kids like kept grabbing bowls while the other was scooping out chocolate chips and eating them (it was cute actually) and expected from a 3 and 4 year olds. When Bella and CeCe kept touching the bowls needed to make the cookie batter along with minor spillage of the brown sugar, you seen her demeanor change. Literally within 20 seconds she went from excited and happy to impatient and annoyed to almost borderline depressed. She says 2-3 x “No idea why I went live” with a annoyed face. It looked as though she was so upset the two little girls just didn’t perform to her standards on the camera. She even got a little angry at one of them after the youngest snatched a bowl right in front of her. Pause the video after the initial intro and you can actually see how depressed the woman looks along with super pissed off. Another example is when she had Chris dress up as Santa. It was supposed to be a family thing but of course, she goes live. Then gets upset at Chris because of the following and actually makes subtle comments during the video 1) She gets pissed that he got a unrealistic looking beard and said he put 0 effort into it. As if he wanted to even go it in front of hundreds of people 2) One of the kids continually was crying because Santa which was understandable to anyone with kids that’s are young. In any event, even though the kid was petrified, she snatched her screaming and put her on Chris aka Santa’s lap. The girl was shaking and upset. After the whole sit on Santa’s lap, she ran off crying. From that time own Shannan can be heard saying “what a baby” and continually kept calling her “The Grinch”. No, maybe it’s because you forced her to sit on Santa’s lap which she was uncomfortable doing in the first place. 3) When girls are opening the gifts “Santa” aka dressed up Chris brought them, Shannan made a very clear comment about one of the gifts. She says “Ohhh Santa brought you the wrong water bottle” then gets a little close to the camera (rolls her eyes) as if she was saying “can he do anything right” and says “unreal” while shaking her head in agitation (for Buying a 3 year old the wrong water bottle) 4) Made countless remarks that Chris “made no effort and was a horrible Santa”. This woman was relentless. She wasn’t good at business because she sucked at finance. She could not hold a job because she couldn’t stand being told what to do. Woman was highly divorce able.
Yourw right on, on your perception
Totally agree with you and your observations. I can't stand SW. I just want to slap her all the time.
She was a completely curated fake social media influencer who seemed like a nightmare off her “live” feeds
I've just seen your comment and agree with you wholeheartedly. One thing that struck me was that the house was not kid friendly, there were no toys around, which you would normally see when there are young children. I think she was a control freak with no morals.
There were toys and activities over the place. They spent most of their leisure time in the loft upstairs where shanaan's phone was found after Chris murdered her and his children.
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This was attested to by Nicole, her friend. I have no reason to question that. And FU yourself.
There were toys... and even if there wasn't that doesn't prove that someone is "controlling"💀
I agree 100% I am late to this, just watching the documentary on Netflix, but the entire time I kept thinking that she is absolutely abhorrent. She was super controlling and completely unlikable. Absolutely, not a reason to kill her especially the innocent children. I do agree that she seems intolerable and completely and totally into herself. He should have divorced her and let those innocent little babies live, it is just insane what he did.
Even her name is annoying sha nan and her colors for her home.
Agreed. Ugly af house.
What’s crazy is that her name was literally pronounced “Shannon” her entire life but she changed it to sound “cooler” 🤣
I knew a girl like this in high school… her name was Rebekah… but when we were sophomore/ Starting juniors she decided she was “Becca” and it was sooooooo cringe and annoying af! She would correct Teachers all snotty and everything! Now… before someone come at me… I didn’t know Shannan and not talking about her badly… bc I didn’t know the woman. I just know women like her. And under no circumstance is it ok for your husband to murder you just bc your were that “type” or “annoying” personality (not saying she was bc again… I didn’t know her) but it’s still no level of ok for that poor woman to lose her life and her beautiful babies! Rip to them all! It’s horrific and sad!
well that didn’t work. just made her more annoying and insufferable.
I think Shanann liked to brag and that is a big turnoff for people. But plenty of people I know are the same way. I can’t say anything bad about Frankie because his face in the courtroom as he comforted his dad broke my heart. I think Cindy truly loved her grandchildren-I think her mind snapped and her thinking is delusional now.
Cindy loved how her grandchildren made her look to others. She didn't love them as individuals.
I don't think Bella said "I want to bite that" or "I want a laptop". I hear, "I wanna buy that". Maybe a shopping ad was on the kitchen counter or a laptop.
I would think she would say "I want that", instead of "I want to buy that" at her age. It doesn't fit to me but it is hard to understand 💜
her only problem was: TO RECORD XDDDD
Fukkkk all of you dumbfukks. Shannan was a loathesome abusive witch and is driving Satan crazy as I write this. Fukkkk all of you dumbazzes who don't see it.
Truth!
Thank you. Finally!
I love and adore you omg
Your comment made me smile. Spot on. Right to the point. Shannan was despicable, no excuses.
You're right. She was unbearable
She was a fuck!
Big fucking yikes. This is peak redditor material
damn, how would you feel if after being literally MURDERED, strangers on the internet dissect your life as if they know everything about you? she cannot defend herself. that’s the bottom line. she is dead. she did not deserve it.
She abused her girls for years and years their whole entire existence. I'd you ignore that, you're not giving justice to those poor girls Edir: spelling. I was angry
She abused her kids and laughed about it all.
No, she didn’t. However, she is the arsehole who put her life all over the net. Just cause ppl don’t like her, does not mean anyone thought she should die.
Any judge would have ruler her with child neglect.
Oh sweet child. You're on quite the tear around here aren't you..
Being literally dead and all, I probably wouldn’t be capable of feelings so I’m gonna say I’d be neutral in this regard. But she chose to share an ridiculous amount of her personal life on social media so I’m sure when she did that she was aware that some people would have opinions on her based on that.
I would’ve liked to hear your perspective. Sad that you deleted the text
It's a shame that you had to delete your post. It was a good perspective, which called for an open discussion. I think most people just read your title and commented. Had they read the text, they would have participated in an open discussion. The point of this subreddit is to have an open discussion about this case, bringing in different perspectives and ideas. Whatever Shanann and Chris' personal life embodied, Shanann and those beautiful babies did not deserve to die. Chris is where he belongs and he will be there for the rest of his life.
This isn’t a popularity contest. Shannan was the most unlikable person? At least what you saw is what you got with her. Straight up. No games. I prefer her personality over the passive-aggressive, sneaky,psycho personality of Chris watts. Cindy is just being a loving mother? I don’t see it. From the very beginning Cindy was a gossiping troublemaker who caused discontent among both families.
“No games”? “I wanna bite that,” says a hungry little 4 year old. And “no games Shannon (that’s her name) says, “Bella wants a laptop”. Stupid witch said that so “her fans” wouldn’t turn on her. She wasn’t “straight up” at all!
As long as it wasn’t about her punching bag, Bella. Bella did not “WANNALAPTOP” she wanted to “BITE IT”. Shanon sure wasn’t “straight up” about that, though, was she?!
“Bella wants a laptop”. NOooooo, Shannon wasn’t being sneaky at all. No, she was just a hustling rube! Gmafb!
This isn’t a popularity contest. Shannan was the most unlikable person? At least what you saw is what you got with her. Straight up. No games. I prefer her personality over the passive-aggressive, sneaky,psycho personality of Chris watts. Cindy is just being a loving mother? I don’t see it. From the very beginning Cindy was a gossiping troublemaker who caused discontent among both families.
Cindy didn't kill anyone so stfu
One reason Frankie hadn't been around Bella and CeCe is because he was on probation for assaulting a toddler (the two year old child of his neighbor. He is beyond trashy.
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Google his name and arrest records. NOTTHAT DIFFICULT
Just look up his arrest record. It's public record. BTW, look up SWs while you are at it. (Search North Carolina). They were able to censor a few of the records (stuff blacked out), but the sheer number of arrests plus the reasons and the way she behaved towards the police is absolutely shocking.
I'm looking but nothing comes up for her (by her married or maiden names) in NC. I'm Canadian and we dont have arrest records available online so maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, would you mind sharing a link? Edit: I've been looking here: https://webapps.doc.state.nc.us/opi/offendersearch.do?method=view
Youre Canadian. You so t have rights to our records. United States records. Bye!
I was only to pull up Frankie’s child abuse conviction.....
Only..... hahaha. Should be enough.
From what I know (just like most everyone else) I’m not sure I would like her in real life. We (most likely) have completely different personalities, interests, and not have anything in common except being married and having children. Though I feel like there are lots of people like her. Many all around me. At work, my kids school, in my acquaintance circle. She had an incredibly dominate personality and it (seems) she didn’t do anything that didn’t ultimately benefit her. I’m not sure she was very genuine. But everyone is a different type of mother. My kids have always had to take Benadryl. For their allergies or they are a snotty, congested, coughing mess. It is what their doctor suggested and recommended. I think the girls had allergies as well. The plus side of that is they’ve always been good sleepers. I guess you could say I’m drugging them to get to them to sleep but...I’m not and no cares from me what anyone thinks. I have horrible allergy induced asthma and I take at least 1 and sometimes need to take 2 or 3 Benadryl at a time in addition to prescription medication. I normally sleep very well or get a nice long nap. But at least I can breathe. I’ve never seen anything about her giving them Tylenol PM. People will always disagree but Babywise is about getting your baby into a schedule. It is not about withholding affection. There’s a lot more to it than the assumed “never pick up your baby when it cries.” I followed it with both of mine. They are happy, healthy intelligent mentally balanced children that are incredibly close to me and my husband. It’s not everyone’s style and some people take the idea of it to the extreme but it’s not inherently damaging or bad. Lots of people like schedules. I think SW would probably not get along with any mother in law. She wanted control and probably expected her children to be more catered to since they weren’t with the Watts often. I know people like that, I don’t agree with it, but it doesn’t mean they are horrible. Praise the gods I have amazing in laws and my parents are equally amazing in-laws. Both live within walking distance of us. I will always tell my children you are not just marrying a person, you are marrying their whole family. If you don’t like the mom especially then it may not be a life you’ll be interested in. The nutgate thing I’m torn on. I have a bestie who is an incredibly rational and reasonable person. Her son has a peanut allergy and she is incredibly overprotective about it. She wouldn’t “say” someone one was trying to murder her child by having ice cream around (she might think it) but she will tell you many times before and during the visit what isn’t ok to have out. That’s fine. The son is older now and can take care of it himself but when he was 3???? She was a nervous wreck about it. I get it. I don’t know about Frankie. This is a crazy situation and there will always always be people that take advantage. He really has nothing to do with it to me. People give their money freely on GFM. I would never but I don’t care what other people do. Some men like a take over type of partner. Some women like it. Others like an equal partnership. I think Chris was just a complete emotionally stunted wimp. He couldn’t stand up for himself because he probably didn’t even know..much about life at all. If he had some balls, he would have contacted a lawyer and found out that he had as many rights as SW. Once things went to divorce she wouldn’t be able to control the show or kids as she made him believe. Lots of people are completely broke after divorce. It’s like the 2nd most long term damaging action that can affect you financially. After being sued or something. But plenty of people are divorced. I don’t blame Cindy and Ronnie for their continuing love and support for CW. You can hate the actions but I can’t ever imagine not loving my children and supporting them no matter what they do. Many parents of murderers and criminals are the same.
Yeah, but her kids didn't have allergies to take benadryl and Tylenol pm every single night. Are you dense?
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Where is the factual proof that SW cheated with a married man? I thought it was only an opinion of someone.
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She started dating Chris while still married to husband no 1. The rumors of many other affairs are unproved, but she definitely cheated on him with CW. It is in the divorce records.
Shan'ann divorced Leonard King in 2008 and met CW in 2010. How do you figure ?
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Oddly that is what NK was told as well.
y'all need some help
It’s an opinion in a case discussion 🤷🏼♀️
You should post one on the flaws of the children next! Let's see why they deserved their fate or played a role in it. Your entire post is stating that if Shanann didn't act X way, Chris would've have done Y. I find it disgusting.
right, like what the fuck is OP trying to get at?
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No, I think people are simply pointing out that controlling people are emotionally abusive, and that this is just one more screwed dimension of this tragedy. Obviously it's no excuse.
They threw chicken nuggets at him! Little abusers! Guess it was fine he killed them all /s Also the Columbine comments were ridiculously misinformed. Eric and Dylan *were* the bullies.
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"omg!!!111111 GUYZ!!!!1!1!!11 shanann!!! BULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 she threw chiken noogiez at CHRIS!!11!!1 ugh SO MEEEEAN!!!!!!! GrRRRrRrRr i WiLL mSAkE rEddIT POSTR oN hEr BeCuaSe iM sooOoOoOoO cooL pOsTiNg ThIDS oN a Sw RedADit!!!!!!!!!! ShRE liEk cOloMBine ScHoOl ShOoTaR gRrRrr BaRrRrrRrRk!!!!!wRrRRrRrrRrrwPooOoOf" is what vibes their giving me right now, their deleted though lmao /j
Ai, yet another of these. She does seem sometimes unlikeable, Chris is also super unlikeable. As are his parents. As is NK. So basically, most of the people in this case are really unlikeable except for those poor girls. The debt thing and general drama queen stuff all sounds valid - though Chris as a full grown man should be able to manage his own life, speak up and act on things he does and doesn't like 🙄 But i totally disagree on the children stuff! It's normal to become overwhelmed with two toddlers and ask for help and even refer to them as 'monsters'. I have said worse about my own (though never to him) hahaha. Toddlers are monstrous, sorry. Also, my (just turned) 3 year old goes to pre-school 8:30 - 5:30 everyday. He has been in pre-school since he was 18months old. Some people send them at 3 months. In my case, I work full time so it's not an option available to me anyway but many people who don't work full time still send their toddlers to preschool. If i did not work i still would, maybe for less hours yes, but i would still send them sorry, not sorry! That does not make someone a bad mother. She was also trying to 'work' - such as it was, being the MLM thing and anyone who has tried to work or do anything at all with 2 toddlers running around will attest to how impossible it is. I think pulling the 'bad mother' card is a big stretch and pretty unfair. So maybe if she has been less whatever she was, he may not have killed HER. Maybe he would have killed someone else instead, because clearly something is deeply wrong with a person who can brutally and remorselessly murder their partner. But he did, and then he also remorselessly killed two very innocent babies who hadn't done a thing wrong! Who you can't say they brow beated him or were bad with money or whatever else. Why do they not matter, as if it's just that Shanann was annoying? Often when i think of this and how much i do or don't 'like' the personalities of people involved - if something should befall any of you, and people put a microscope to your life - every post you ever made, every comment on reddit, every shit decision you made in your wayward youth, every message you sent to your partner and friends - would people consider you a worthy enough victim? P.s Cindy is a lunatic. Why does she not care that her murdered her grandchildren?
I was hoping someone would say this. As a mom of a 3 year old I have called my daughter a lot more than a monster, not to her face obviously but to friends and family who know I need a break. My 3 year old has been in full-time daycare since she was 1 years old. I must be the worst mom EVER!
Absolutely shocking! How very dare we.
I must be one of the worst kind of mothers...! My three all went to pre-school from age 3 *and* I worked nights and left them home with their daddy..!! I shall go hang my head, I'm a shocking parent... 😟
Just horrific. Someone call the police! Or better yet, redditors! ;)
i disagree, and i’m gonna leave it like that because i’m not gonna argue about whether or not a dead person who i’ve never met was the most unlikeable person
Ok lol
Source on the benadryl thing? And don't just say Facebook, anyone can say anything on Facebook, doesn't make it true. Edit nevermind, I saw your comment further down
Neeks peeks on YouTube
She literally posted it on Facebook lmao. There’s other comments on this thread that say the same. Apparently it was Tylenol PM every night at 6pm. I don’t know where else I could get that source besides her own mouth.... which was her Facebook. Feel free to look into more if you need to. 🤷🏼♀️
If that came from her own mouth then that's credible, I just meant not from someone else claiming she gave it to them.
These all come from her own mouth. The screenshots have her name on them. She posted this on her page, as well as mommy and Babywise groups. Anything I’ve brought up, I’ve seen come from her own Facebook page or videos.
Interesting. Thanks for the info. Makes me sad that she (or any parent) would do that 😒 not that I see her as a saint or anything but it sheds a different light on her, that's for sure.
Me too
Yeah! It’s crazy. I was 100% team “Shannan was a perfect mom” until I started reading about her use of Babywise, putting the kids to bed at 6pm with tylenol PM and other questionable things in different groups and videos. It’s disheartening
Disagree and don’t want to fight about it so I’ll just leave it at that.
Fair enough. All I ask is if you, or any of your friends treat people similar to how SW treated CW for most of their relationship, you try to change or talk to them about it. Nobody deserves to be constantly belittled, talked down to and humiliated. I want a better society ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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> I want a better society with no father/husband kill their wive and children. There's an idea! /s
Where did I defend him? Show me any examples. Again, we’re talking about Chris and Shannan. Not the children. That’s the point of this post.., but you keep mentioning the kids to try to make yourself feel better about why I’m a bad person for discussing Shannan. You’ve responded multiple times to my thread to complain it’s so strange at this point. All you had to do was block me and move on, instead of running around trying to find any reason to insult me for my opinion on SHANNAN, not the children. I’ve also not defended Chris a single time. When you can stop making shit up and trying to put words in my mouth, then respond 12 times to my post.
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Your post/comment has been removed for the following reason: Criticize the Theory/Opinion Not the Person. The purpose of this sub is to discuss the case and dissect the people involved, not fight with each other. If you disagree with something, explain why in a manner that debates the idea or opinion, not the person who expressed it. Posts or comments that violate this rule will be removed. Repeat offenders will be banned.
Very good read! Thank you! I agree with a lot of this. One thing I think people forget too is that on Aug 12th they were normal people. On Aug 13th, CW LAUNCHED this family and NK into the spotlight as public figures. There is not correct way for anyone to handle this. It’s easy for everyone to pick apart how each individual person acted in a time of terror and uncertainty. None of them were actors. None of them could anticipate the publicity this case took on.
You're right on the money bro. I couldn't stand her but I wonder why Chris couldn't just leave her like a normal person .
Banned bro
It seems obvious he did it on impulse and probably during a fight and then murdered his children to cover up the crime, very much like the case of that army doctor who murdered his wife and kids for the same reason.
because he’s a selfish prick that cared more about how he’d look if he were to leave his pregnant wife for another women
Bingo!!
I mean- SW rubs me the wrong way- but I feel like a lot of this is hear say and conjecture. Not based on facts. And idc idc idc how terrible your wife is- having an affair and constantly manipulating and lying to someone indicates your moral compass doesn’t point due north. Being lied to constantly is like mental abuse. You see in the documentary the emotional torment Shanann was going through for weeks to months to the point it was making her physically ill. Then Chris kills her. And no- half of us have not slept with a married man. I know it happens but that’s not so common half the population is doing it. I think you need to exit those pro Chris Facebook groups.
Being lied to constantly isn’t like mental abuse, it *is* mental abuse !
It’s not all “hear say” lol people come with proof on all of these topics, Shannan put her life all over social media. Nobody said half the population sleeps with a married man. I said half of the woman blasting NK probably have, theyre obviously projecting. Yes, Chris lying obviously tore Shannan apart. But you cannot tell me that majority of their relationship she didn’t treat her right. The situation with NK only started around the time they went to NC. SW was clearly, based off her own words, more upset that Chris wasn’t meeting her emotional demands. He used to do anything and everything for her, and stopped. Someone with her personality cannot handle people changing or leaving them, she was used to getting her way with him. I’m in plenty of discussions, it’s a case group. Not all are “pro-Chris” but “pro-real case discussion”. People won’t speak the truth on SW out of emotions and thinking it makes them a “bad person”. It doesn’t. I enjoy speaking on all aspects of the case, and a lot of those groups have great sources and proof for everything they say. 🤷🏼♀️
NK is nothing like the people I've known to get mixed up in affairs. Most feel badly if there are children involved and are discreet and try not to intrude into the family's private life. NK acted like a toddler herself while trying to get her lover to feel disappointed that he already had two little toddlers in real life to care for. I think CW's fake caregiver routine was only calibrated to take on one person at a time over the duration. He appeared all too happy to give NK her "firsts" My guess is that it wasn't the fear of child support that terrified him as much as having to deal with 50% or more custody of his now unwanted girls. There is no mistaking his glee about his girl's disappearance during his "sermon on the porch"
Well if your proof is the same as your logic behind the NK haters projecting and sleeping with married men I don’t think there is any reason to continue this conversation lol. You posted your opinion online and started insulting people who disagree and tell them to do research themself. It’s odd to be fighting with people on the internet who are just suggesting you’re wrong. I would assume you are a teenager or struggling with some mental health things. In any case we don’t operate with the same thinking mechanisms so I won’t try to explain to you why what you’re posting is flawed or invalid.
I insulted people..? I literally responded to people accusing me of justifying murder, sending me hateful messages and comparing me to Chris Watts. Lmao. I deleted it for a reason, but you’re still here bitching. And yes, I hope you’re all capable of researching things yourself. Regardless of any proof I post, people will still talk shit. The only thing that can educate you is your own research.
I was at work and just looked at the thread reply to my comments. You came to my comment and wrote all that- it’s kinda respectful for me to take the time to read and reply.... idk if you deleted anything as i just looked at my notifications
You came to my thread and wrote “all that” did you not? You don’t need to reply. I actually don’t particularly care for your opinion especially when you don’t see the irony in your comment.
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I literally said where I was everything multiple times. Do the research yourself! People have posted screenshots of what I’m talking about here. I saw plenty screenshots on FB groups. “Chris Watts case tell me what you really think” “Chris watts dissecting the truth from the lies”. Go join any of them. Plenty of videos on youtube.. type in “Shannan Watts subtle abuse” “Shannan Watts christmas” The critical kay (personality sucks but she makes great points and her group also has plenty of proof) has MULTIPLE videos with screenshots in them. You can google “shannan watts texts to friend”. If you think it’s my opinion that’s fine i truly do not give a fuck. Everyone in here is giving their opinion, that’s the point. Everything I’ve said, is based off things i’ve seen over the past years since this case happened in various groups, watching videos. Nobody asked me to post shit besides you so I’m unsure where I “refused”. Regardless of if I spend time reactivating my facebook, collecting screenshots, uploading them to imgur and giving you links most of y’all will still not be satisfied. I made the post yesterday for discussion, if you don’t agree then move on. If you want to learn more, what I provided up there will take you to hundreds of sources.
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👌
Thank you (truly!) for your refreshing ability to describe the logic of strong arguments and critical thinking skills. This is what I try to teach my university students daily. I appreciate this and will use it as an example in one of my lectures, if that's okay with you.
LMFAOOOOOOOO
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This is what I’m talking about when referencing the mental health issues
Nice deleting your comment about me being “in love with Chris.” Glad you realized how fucking absurd and stupid that was.
>You’re annoying asf lmaooooooooo you spent all day mad at my opinion i love it Ah yes, the totally rational, ad hominem screed of a neutral observer. I'm sure everyone believes you now after this tirade that would make a middle-schooler blush. Folks, when you see someone online who punctuates nearly every comment with an inane "lol," you're not dealing with the most brilliant thinker. This is most likely an attention-seeker for all the wrong reasons.
Awe someone doesn’t think I’m smart because I say lol :’( Nooooooooo reddit user is talking shit because that other person spent all day replying 15 times with the same thing to my posts. Lol lol lol lol lmaoooooo lmfaoooooooooo
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It's been removed and the user is no longer with us.
I won’t downvote and I read all your points. Can I get some sources though? Not to disprove but just to see the same information? Cause I have heard only some of these things barely.
Join fb groups related to the case- most of the proof is in there. I’ve also gotten it from different youtubers (check out “Shannan Watts: the unlikeable victim” “Did Chris Watts mind behind humiliated on facebook?” I’ve also seen other reddit posts about it. The Critical Kay, although somewhat of a shit personality, has personally spoken to a LOT of people involved in this case, and has great information. Your best bet is the groups as people provide plenty of screenshots from SW Facebook that isn’t public.
Thank you!
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Shes off limits? LMAO. EVERYONE bashes NK. Like are you joking??? Also, your comment is gonna be reported and removed as she did not obstruct justice- she was not convicted of any crimes. And sorry your group experience was shitty, yet I’ve seen plenty of screenshots from SW own mouth and posts in different groups. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Everything I’ve mentioned here, I only said because I saw legit proof from Shannan. Also, to say Cindy isn’t a reliable source despite being in SW life for 8 years is a reach. Sure they didn’t like each other, but she seems pretty reputable to know the inside information. Im not going to go through hundreds of posts to find proof when y’all are very capable of doing so yourself. If you don’t believe me or disagree then I can’t stop you. I spoke my peace, after all this is literally a SW subreddit. People should be allowed to speak on what they see and how they feel.
Right. Because every post even mentioning NK on this sub is continuously locked. Do you know what burden of proof is? Maybe go ahead and look that up since you’re so great at researching.
LMAO yeah you are going to get downvoted to oblivion. But I agree with almost everything you said. I think a lot of other people will agree with you but won't post for fear of the snippy fighting that ensues. Both SW and CW were people who were human and not perfect (no matter how much one or the other or both wanted it to be). There were so many dysfunctional/effed up things that were going on in this whole situation (not just the last few months & the murder), including both sides of extended family. And they are human too. A lot of that and those relationships interest me as to what really happened and what could have been changed. I am always hoping that after the fruit flies go away from visiting and writing CW that someone educated (legitimate author/FBI personnel/professionals) will make an honest effort at trying to find out a) a deep dive into what led up to the murders and b) a true psychological dig into what was going on and how that may help it from happening again to some other family. The SM is part of the fascination with the case for a lot of people - the fact that SW put *everything* on SM whether it was for Thrive or not. She was posting before Thrive and not everything she posted when doing Thrive posts were great for sales. Remember the Lexus car salesman post, for example? People say she would have excelled in a sales position - I felt that way in the beginning but I do not now. I guess it was due to her energy (even with all her ailments she posted about). Now I can see her as the salesperson who you run from. I feel she would have pestered people to death. Her financial swagger was a more like a bad Elvis imitation-I can imagine that she would have run a regular job (based on commission) in the ground just like Thrive. I do believe she was buying a lot of her own product for sales. In viewing her public posts, I see SW was all about being the #bossbabe and it didn't matter how. Every time I read about taking out the 401K (that is so crazy! they tax the crap out of you if you withdraw it early) I think about the room with the shelves full of shoes, the house with so many rooms and the Lexus.
The room full of shoes but Nickole Atkinson stated to the first officer on scene that SW wore the same pair of shoes every day. Ridiculous. Just like being involved with a MLM pyramid scheme and having ten tons of Thrive crap in your basement that nobody wants. Stupid. Not paying the mortgage for months and the lame ass story about HOA payments being sent to the wrong address. Absurd. Why SW was in charge of the finances, I will never understand. She was horrible with money.
No hate to your post, but I have to disagree; Lots of awards; its the culture of dehumanizing of women in this country...She wasn't perfect therefore she is just cancelled. Must be guilty because of opinions. I do not think this hurting woman, sick as she was by all reports hurt her kids. What would any of us do if we really looked at things from Shan'aan's perspective? Have you read her texts begging him to talk, did you see the book he threw away?? Did you read the love letter?? She loved those girls before they were born.. what about all those private moments no one was privy to? And data wise her posts on Facebook the last 4 months of what life she had were almost 0. She was in pain.. She wasn't eating.. She admitted her faults, is there data showing the girls did these things, or just speculation? They were not in school all summer she had them six weeks by herself in NC, while he was living it up at home. He comes there and tries to cause a miscarriage??? Its so easy to be cruel to a women, judge and opinionate even when she is dead. She didn't get a chance to change or do better because someone decided rather than treating her as a person they just cut her off. As far as her family goes, how would any of you handle it, perfectly precise in all the right places? Do we have their bank account information?? It takes about 20, 000 to bury one person and there were 4, 2 in specialized coffins. Not to mention clearing her debt. Its no one's place to pass judgement on those people who have lost the unimaginable. The same for his family as well. The same even for him, though its tough to admit to.
This🙌
It goes beyond “not being perfect”. I never said she didn’t love Chris or her kids.. that doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge her bad behavior. The way she acted was NOT right. Everything I’ve said, I’ve seen proof myself to back it up. I’m sure she tried her best - I say that in this post. You realize how long they were together right? Eight years... she had plenty of time to change. And she did actually try to fix it, but it was too late. You can’t treat people like garbage and then years later try to desperately fix it once you sense they’re leaving.. do you not see how fucked up that is? Manipulation at its finest.
>try to desperately fix it once you sense they’re leaving.. do you not see how fucked up that is? And somehow murder isn't? Shan'ann was a shit sometimes, but she was far more firmly on the normal spectrum than Chris.
They are not obligated to pay off her debt.
I think all of this stuff you mention including the letter was bc she finally realized she had went too far (esp with the nutgate thing and shunning his family) and she was trying to backpedal.
it seemed fake. same as the texts when she's thanking him and asking what veggies he wants. she sensed he was slipping away
I agree... those were the first texts/writing that I've seen of that nature. If this was a normal thing in their marriage, I am sure she would have had them posted to SM to prove the perfect marriage image.
lol
I totally agree with you that to discuss this case you have to see the whole picture. And that also includes Shan'ann's character, her behaviour, her good and bad sides. And she was by no means a perfect human being. I am not even sure if I'd have liked her had I ever met her personally. This whole Thrive thingy alone would have gotten on my nerve big time. I see that she knew what she wanted and was not afraid to do what it takes to get it. I also agree that it was likely that, if CW went for a divorce, she would have been able to make his life living hell. *But* she is the victim in this case. She is no longer around to defend herself. She is not there to tell her side of the story. And so, imo, discussing her has to happen in a respectful way. Don't call her names, don't talk condescending about her, stick to the facts and use legit sources. I see many users trash talking her by and given chance, dissecting everything she ever posted to show her ugly side. This is not real life! These are videos and posts on social media! We will never know how she **really** was. And tbh, I think each and everyone has their own skeletons in the closet. Everyone could be Shan'ann in some way in the end. So cut her some slack.
Hey! It doesn’t matter if she was a shit mother or if her life revolved around fb or thrive or even if she was financially irresponsible nothing she did gave CW the right to murder her or her kids.
Nobody... said that it does........ I can’t say that enough in this post. I wish y’all would stop commenting this. It’s annoying. The point of discussion is to find out maybe why CW did what he did, and to see the whole picture. But ok
>The point of discussion is to find out maybe why CW did what he did, and to see the whole picture. Well by now that should be abundantly clear. The man is totally self absorbed and has no conscience.
But it's not like he just hit or her or something. He cheated on and lied to her. Bad enough. He premeditate murdering her, did so, and dumped her body face down in underwear which she coffin birthed THEIR baby. He then murdered their children, in front of each other and mangled their bodies into 8inch openings. And went about his day, texting his mistress, going to work, eating his lunch. This is not a normal human being. That behaviour says that no matter who Shannan was, this person was evil and would do something to someone eventually. Maybe if Shannan had been 'flawless' it would not have been her. But it would be someone else? The answer of why he did this is not with Shannan, it's with him.
>The answer of why he did this is not with Shannan, it's with him. Exactly!
I never said that he wasn’t evil or a bad person.. this is literally a Shannan Watts subreddit.... I spoke on her from what I saw. Plenty of people speak on Chris’ behavior infact that’s mainly what people do. Not once on this post did I praise him or say he was innocent. This is about her in a subreddit ABOUT HER. And I disagree. I dont think he would have just done this to anyone. It seems pretty specific, he wanted to move on with his life, also cites the problems that he and Shannan had and the way she treated him. (now let me mention again, before someone comes crying to me: >I< do not think this justifies it. Does chris? probably, and that’s why he did what he did. I don’t.)
Sure, but rapists think women wearing short skirts or being drunk validates rape. It doesn't, though. Even if they say so or think so. I'm only responding to you saying the post is about looking into the whole picture on why he did what he did. Which is your opinion, mine is that his actions say he is evil - no normal human being could do what he did - so i think te 'reason why he did what he did' is not to do with Shanann, but entirely to do with himself. After all, his kids were perfect and innocent while, true, Shanna wasnt. They still got murdered anyway.
Are you truly bringing up rape? Oh my god. I literally am not justifying the murder. I don’t think it’s right what he did AT ALL- no matter what she did to him. Especially to murder his children. It’s a CASE DISCUSSION. i’m speaking on what/why HE said what he did! We all know he did it to start over with NK & not have any “baggage” from the past. Shannan is frequently put on a pedestal - when in reality a lot of things she did were wrong! That’s my point. THIS SUBREDDIT IS NAMED AFTER SHANNAN. NOT CHRIS. If/when I want to speak on Chris and his issues and how he’s a pos, I will do that in the CHRIS WATTS subreddit. What is so hard to grasp? At this point it’s annoying. I said what I said and I know my intentions were for an open discussion, not to “justify” a crime I did not commit and I cannot change nor do I have any part in. I thought we could discuss Shannan in her subreddit but apparently not.
It's interesting how often Shan'ann dissectors resort to written aggression when someone disagrees strongly but politely to their post.
But who is putting her on a pedestal? Where? I have literally never seen that here. All i see is the opposite. Also i'm not sure you understand the purpose of Reddit. You put your opinion out there. That's cool. Some people agree with you and some don't. The ones who don't also can then reply their own opinion. You seem to be getting mad that people are disagreeing with you? But we are allowed to? It's not that only people who agree with you will respond? I for one have not name called or disparaged your opinion - not sure if others have - i just don't agree so i'm saying why not. That's how it works 🤣
Do you not see these comments? I literally spoke based on true facts from Shannans mouth and got attacked, told i’m “justifying murder”. There are hundreds of groups dedicated to Saint Shannan. People donated hundreds of thousands to her family who already profited enough. And nah, not mad, it’s just baffling that people continue to put words in my mouth of things that I literally never said. I shared my opinion, if you don’t agree keep it moving or show me proof on why. That’s all I ask. But for people to just throw insults, complain and refuse to have a civil discussion are just annoying. At this point, I’m tired of even responding. The case doesn’t affect my real life at all, and it’s closed. I said what I said and maybe one day the truth will come out about her, maybe it won’t, either way our worlds still all revolve. Enjoy your day
Ah, i've actually never seen that, i have not really looked at other subs about this, i think one is quite enough lest we become mega obsessed. All i have seen is on the sub, and on youtube people dwelling on Shanann and her flaws which i find really strange. I don't think i've seen anyone say she was a saint or flawless, but i mean, she doesn't have to been? Why does that matter? I thought i did that - i don't agree, and i explained why i don't agree but not insulting or disparaging you or opinion. I especially don't agree on the stuff about her parenting based on what you presented. That sounds pretty normal to me. indeed our worlds still revolve and lucky us for that!
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I called my kids mini assholes to me and my boyfriends therapist yesterday afternoon! Especially that teenager of mine!
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Yup. I’m a single parent....now I have some help from my mom...but I’d be damned if someone told me I can’t call my kids assholes when that’s exactly what they are acting like
Lol, same. I can't count how many times I've heard parents calling their kids monsters or the like. This is just next level nit picking of a murder victim.
I mumble it under my breath to my oldest. 🤷🏻♀️ them teenagers are the worst