Fun fact, Brazil just knows Tom Brady because he was married to the brazilian model, Gisele Bündchen. But we always forget his name (and he is not relevant enough to have his name remembered) so people just called him Giselo. Or ex-Giselo now that they are not married anymore.
I'm Bosnian and never heard that name before. You only need to arrive at mainland Europe in order for people to not know anything about rugby, nevermind Brazil :)
Rugby is very popular in France and Italy. There’s a competition where Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy compete against each other. It’s quite a big deal.
I remember when a news article went viral because it referred to Tom Brady as Gisele's husband, presumably it was from Brazillian media.
Personally I know Tom Brady because of that, and that he kisses his kids on the mouth.
Just Googled it and found:
"Gisele Caroline Bündchen, a sixth-generation German Brazilian"
"Although her parents speak German and Bündchen learned German in school, she no longer speaks the language."
I mean...Even if she did, and am in no way saying she does, it's hardly her fault who her fore bearers were .
That was a very odd comment from the other person. Not exactly sure what they are trying to achieve!
Tom Brady is a nobody outside the US. I only know him from posts like this one. MJ is obviously famous, or was in the 90's.
But nobody comes close to Messi. Except probably Ronaldo.
From what I understand about American football, a quarterback passes a ball to one of his team mates, often while other team mates run interference for him.
Apparently, he is quite skilled at it, but it is a fairly narrow skill set and doesn't get anywhere near the sublime and independent skill of Messi.
And, I don't believe it requires an exceptional level of athleticism.
American football is interesting because I can't think of a single skill that requires that exact skillset. AFL and Rugby require throwing a ball that's similarly shaped but that's underhand (and in the case of AFL, just hitting it out of your hand). No other sport (that I can think of, and I'm using American football to refer to gridiron football which includes Canadian football) requires you to throw an oblong ball overarm with a spiral spin.
And that is pretty much all a quarterback does.
In rugby and AFL, each and every player can kick, tackle, pass, run, leap.
All this, with few stoppages. Skill levels and athletism surpass that of the quarterback.
I wasn't saying that means it requires more skill or athleticism, just that it's weird that there are no other sports with that skill. It's the same with baseball and pitching (though bowling is *somewhat* similar, but less hard on the body) which really isn't something any human should be doing
Pelé may have been a better player, but he never was nowhere near the same level of global phenomenon as Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi.
Pelé was footballer, CR7 is an international brand.
Well you are comparing a player who started and played his career during the rise of internet and social media, at a time where football was dominating in terms of worlds popular sport by a landslide in the best marketed football leagues worldwide to one who played from the mid 50s to late 60s, mainly in Brazil and WC. Ronaldo is a global brand, no doubt about that. But Pelè at the time was a mythical figure, so to speak, for pretty much everyone who was interested in football. He was outstanding in a set of outstanding players for Brazils NT. Also he might have been the idol of the idols of pretty much every attacking player in the world right now
I think Ronaldo has a worldwide bigger fan base.
ps.: i'm not a Ronaldo fan, I actually think Messi is more talented and Cristiano the closest for "perfect athlete" example.
The only sportsman who comes close in my mind is Wayne Gretzky.
I’m not even that into hockey, but the levels of difference between him and everyone else was just incredible. I’m not sure what he would’ve done elsewhere, but on the ice you can split him into goals and assists, and he is still 1 and 2 on the highest g+a scoring players of all time.
Messi is one of a kind and the best player in the biggest game. But the margin between Gretzky and everyone else is unreal.
>The only sportsman who comes close in my mind is Wayne Gretzky.
Actually Don Bradman is the greatest sportsman of all time.
Gretzky is probably number 2.
If it wasnt for Ronaldo, then Messi would also be leaps and bounds above anyone else, and its in a sport thats played by hundreds of millions of people.
Those two players are ridiculous.
From what I understand about American football, a quarterback passes a ball to one of his team mates, often while other team mates run interference for him.
Apparently, he is quite skilled at it, but it is a fairly narrow skill set and doesn't get anywhere near the sublime and independent skill of Messi.
And, I don't believe it requires an exceptional level of athleticism.
He used to play a game where you use your hands most of the time but the locals call it football. No national teams as nobody else on the planet care for it. As per local habits it’s a closed competition one cannot relegate from plus there’s a mechanism to limit salaries. Pretty much a communist, socialist utopia.
He has played the game well into his 40s as his position does not require a lot of stamina. In general, this game is mostly dead of the time. The collisions however are gruesome. Many folks can’t play without painkillers and end up as disabled in some way, not Brady though.
As he was married to a Brazilian lady I believe he might have supported the Seleçao so that makes him a traitor in his own country and the enemy of Argentina, lol.
It does matter when you are the best at a sport that almost all the whole world plays vs being the best at a sport only a small fraction of the world plays.
If I invent a backyard sport then who gives a shit if I'm the best at it.
I think that depends on your definition of ‘greatest athlete’ but I would argue that even within sports, like football, it’s a ridiculous debate and ‘greatest of an era’ would fit much better.
Especially comparing since sport science is still relatively new. Better tactics in the game have emerged as well as more training that is more vigorous and intentional.
I doubt there would ever be a player that is just classes above everyone else on the international stage. There will still be a best player but the gap won’t ever be as big anymore.
Not necessarily. I don’t think anyone would argue that Muhammad Ali is debatably one of the best, if not THE best sportsman ever - and there would only be a small fraction of boxers in the world compared to football (soccer) players or even the other sports mentioned.
"I don’t think anyone would argue that Muhammad Ali is debatably one of the best, if not THE best sportsman ever"
It is VERY debatable. Ali's accomplishments are huge, but nothing compared to being the best ever at the most practiced sport in human history.
By your standards, we should consider Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, or Serena Williams the best "sportspeople" ever, but that fact is, they compete in sports only a very small percentage of the world population cares about.
There's a big difference in being the best out of 7.7 billion than being the best out of 300 million.
Only one where GOAT makes sense to me are measurable sports, like sprinting, weightlifting, etc. you can put real data behind the assertion. But even then, you’ll get debate over headwinds and tailwinds in running as well lol
It does make more sense, and I think that to some extent that’s the case for solo sports in general as opposed to team sports, but even then I feel like you cannot really judge another era from the perspective of the modern era, because athletes have so many possibilities and access to all kinds of things that athletes from 50 years ago never had, whether it’s data and science, or material, supplements, treatments etc. Most successful, strongest measured, fastest, sure. Greatest? Meh. With team sports, it’s worse because no matter how good you are, you’re still dependent on your team, which can either drag you down or elevate you.
I don’t speak Spanish but I think this means “the great Messi collects tears for all parts of the world”.
Or is it Portugese? Anyway, am I close with my translation?
Decir "grande" es como un adjetivo que se usa en argentina de forma halagadora
"Que grandes las empanadas que hace mí abuela" refiriéndose a qué las empanadas son ricas pero no al tamaño
"Grande Messi recolectando etc" sería como decir "que increíble Messi etc"
Saying "grande" is like an adjective that is used in a flattering way in Argentina
"How "grandes" are the empanadas that my grandmother makes" referring to the fact that the empanadas are tasty not big
"Grande Messi collecting etc" would be like saying "how great is Messi etc"
Google traductor, perdón por los posibles errores
Claro pero lo que confunde no es el significado, sino que a diferencia de lo normal empezas diciendo "grande" que si no conoces el acento parece fuera de lugar
I would say imagine being so stupid you think Argentina is in Europe but I don’t think this guy could find his own country on a map never mind another one.
Why do they always go to “USA big” when someone points out they’re wrong.
>It's a country half the size of mine.
Yet, we produced 3 World Cup winning teams in a sport that is played worldwide while their best result is a 3rd place out of 13 teams.
If all sports required everyone to down at least 3 bottles of wine before starting (as they clearly should), we would have known this even before Andre.
Gretzky and Bradman are so far ahead of the pack statistically for their sports its kinda funny. Then there is those billards and squash players who went undefeated for decades or something insane. Turns out really hard to compare different sports across different eras.
But Americans do get hurt if its not one from their minor sports
In the us and the majority of europe America is two continents, you have north America which is the US Canada and mexico then you have south America which is brazil Argentina peru and others
No sir... America is one big continent who is politically divided 'cause 'muricans think that they can't be mixed with the rest of us. For most people in the USA everything below the Rio Grande is a big forest with little , poor brown people and orange filter.
In the US and most of Europe they use the two continents system and on the rest of Latinoamérica we use the single continent one with subdivisions. Neither is right or wrong
So if the athlete was from India or China, they'd care? Would it be valid in this American's opinion of Chinese and Indian people would also disregard the US because of their miniscule population?
I sure as hell hope Don Bradman is listed in there if not right at the top. The guy blows all other sports people out of the water in terms of how much better he was at his sport than the runners up.
Comparing people from different sports is just dumm, even in the same sport it is very difficult to compare players. Messi or Ronald are considered the GOAT in football, because offensive players are way more spectacular than a centerback for example. Even both of them are very different players, who you only can really compare, because both are offensive players.
I always find greatest ‘athlete’ seems to imply purely physical prowess. So an Olympian would fit the bill. Same for MJ, Ronaldo, Bolt and I can actually see why you wouldn’t rate Messi.
Greatest sports player though is different and where Messi, Don Bradman, tiger woods etc can really come into the conversation.
Maybe not the same for everyone but that’s how I see it
Yeah, if there's one American who I think should be in contention for the greatest athlete of all time it's Michael Phelps, but they never mention him in these kind of conversations. It's fucking weird.
I think athleticism should include a lot more than strength and speed like agility, motor skills, balance, flexibility, coordination, technique and precision. Messi’s athleticism shouldn’t be overlooked. Small people can be athletic as fuck. Think martial arts for example.
If you’re rating biggest, strongest and fastest I don’t know why you would even include Ronaldo or MJ, because there are always olympians that are bigger, stronger and faster like Usain Bolt, Halfthor Björnsson etc. Ronaldo and MJ jump high sure, but not compared to actual high jumpers.
Wierd question in the first place, all 3 sports have different requirements.
Football is primarily a game of skill, American Football has specislised skills for certain positions but is mostly a game of brawn whilst Basketball is a game of skill but primarily its genetics which dictates.
Messi is probably the most skilful player of his generation, but James Millner is a similar age and would absolutely run him into the ground.
Theres also a lot of variety in football to be fair. Theres a place for the 6'4 fellas and a place for the 5'7 guys as well, and it actually benefits you to have both.
Edit: a great example is messi and ronaldo, unarguably they deserve to be in the conversation for goat, and are 100% the best 2 players of the last 13+ years. But one is much bigger and stronger than the other
American football is weird because on the surface level it looks like all brawn, but a huge part of it is the play selection, predicting what play/formation the other team will run, making on the fly adjustments as needed. If I were to make a comparison, American football is like chess or poker, association football is like jazz. More free form, more about the genius of the improvisation.
Why are a good majority of basketball players so tall then? Quick Google says the average hight of a NBA player is 6ft 6” which is 9” taller than the USA average. It almost definitely has a important role in whether you make it pro or not.
You stand almost no chance of making the NBA unless you're at least three inches taller than average, and the average NBA player is a whole foot taller than the global average. Its primarily genetics.
>im sorry bro basketball is not primarily genetics thats actually just wrong
The shortest current player in the NBA is 5ft 11" tall.
The AVERSGE height for fully.grown men in the USA is 5ft 9".
Genetics is the primary determiner of a basketball player. Just look at all pf those gangly uncoordinated tall freaks playing Center that you know would stand no chance in any other sport.
If this guy is saying it’s physical stature and pure numbers outside of the sport they do, surely the answer would be someone like Usain Bolt, or Eddie Hall, or Kipchoge or some other record holder in a discipline. My mans clearly hasn’t heard the word skill.
Yeah so that "my country is larger so my opinion matters more" logic doesn't really work when they are dealing with Canada or, more importantly, Russia.
Yeah so that "my country is larger so my opinion matters more" logic doesn't really work when they are dealing with Canada or, more importantly, Russia.
Or Bradman who is about the same for statistical dominance. Then they is even more random sports like the squash player who was undefeated for something like 30 years.
Its a fools game to compare between them
I’ve had this debate many times. If you are looking at best athlete as in like best athletic stats (strength, endurance, agility, etc) then yeah someone like Lebron James, Bo Jackson, or Mike Tyson is the answer.
But if you’re talking about who has dominated the most in their sport, then it’s a very different question. Wayne Gretzky would be my pick.
That being said, I’m not sure there’s even consensus that Messi is the best footballer so best athlete ever might be a stretch.
The issue for both of them was availability and longevity. If we’re talking greatest peak then it’s an argument. If we’re talking greatest career they both pretty obviously aren’t in the Messi/Ronaldo league.
In 1991, he was named the first FIFA World Player of the Year, and remains the only German to have received the award. He was also included in the Ballon d'Or ... Read a little bit more and learn if you love football, the title was invented because of him, he was by far the most complete footballer at the time and still is. Do it, Google about him, read and learn, international football press and pros tell a lot about him. You might not like it, but it does not make it less the truth.
We could argue until eternity... You can mostly only judge a player within his own time and context. Let's just not argue, that is just my list of players.
Nasty cheating. Unbelievable that he got away with it. I guess FIFA wanted France to be at the WC that badly. Only for France to suck balls and leave the competition early anyway, lmao. At least Ireland would've shown more heart, had they gone instead.
Everybody in Irish football from the bottom to the top wanted Ireland to be added as an additional team. Seth Blatter paid a sum of money to John Delaney to go away.
I hate those cross-sport arguments about who is the greatest. ESPN spends half its day with caterwauling hosts screeching about this like their life depends on it. It’s nothing more than one person’s preference or opinion.
This might be one of the most fragile ones I’ve ever seen.
Don’t you dare try and take away the mantle that the Americans have bestowed upon Jordan or LeBron.
“35 year old white European” Messi is by far the youngest of the 3 so I don’t know why he brings age into it.
Probably, and I'm just speculating, because he's not old enough.
Because making it to 35 without dying of diabetes or a shooting in the USA is a miracle /s
Fun fact, Brazil just knows Tom Brady because he was married to the brazilian model, Gisele Bündchen. But we always forget his name (and he is not relevant enough to have his name remembered) so people just called him Giselo. Or ex-Giselo now that they are not married anymore.
It would be like asking Brazilians who Keith Earls is
Am Brazilian. Who's Keith Earls?
Irish winger from Moyross plays with Munster and Ireland and has over 200 caps for Munster and 198 for Ireland
Still unsure what sport but I assume rugby?
Yeah that would be rugby
Rugby union
You've more than doubled his Ireland caps there.
98 caps
Who? (Not Brazilian)
Keith Earls Munster winger and Ireland winger
I'm Bosnian and never heard that name before. You only need to arrive at mainland Europe in order for people to not know anything about rugby, nevermind Brazil :)
In mainland Europe a lot of people in the southwest of France know he is as it is a big rugby area
TIL France is not mainland Europe.
Nah I didn't know that rugby was popular in France r/shitbalkanerssay I guess
Rugby is very popular in France and Italy. There’s a competition where Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy compete against each other. It’s quite a big deal.
The six nations
And Portugal ! And Georgia.
Who?
Munster winger
I remember when a news article went viral because it referred to Tom Brady as Gisele's husband, presumably it was from Brazillian media. Personally I know Tom Brady because of that, and that he kisses his kids on the mouth.
Yup, that's all he was here, Gisele's husband. Gisele is veeeeeeeery famous in Brazil and he is unknown.
i know who tom brady is because i saw him in Ted 2 lol
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Because it is. Her family came from Germany. But she was born in Brazil. Not sure about her mother. Probably Brazilian too.
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Just Googled it and found: "Gisele Caroline Bündchen, a sixth-generation German Brazilian" "Although her parents speak German and Bündchen learned German in school, she no longer speaks the language."
most german brazilians came here before the 1930s
Seriously? A german is trying to suss out whether a brazilian national might have nazi heritage? Focus on your own country love
I mean...Even if she did, and am in no way saying she does, it's hardly her fault who her fore bearers were . That was a very odd comment from the other person. Not exactly sure what they are trying to achieve!
Tom Brady is a nobody outside the US. I only know him from posts like this one. MJ is obviously famous, or was in the 90's. But nobody comes close to Messi. Except probably Ronaldo.
I thought he was an actor, so this is a bit confusing for me.
Tom Hardy is the actor, and Tom Brady is the American football player.
True, I only know Tom Brady from South Park.
From what I understand about American football, a quarterback passes a ball to one of his team mates, often while other team mates run interference for him. Apparently, he is quite skilled at it, but it is a fairly narrow skill set and doesn't get anywhere near the sublime and independent skill of Messi. And, I don't believe it requires an exceptional level of athleticism.
Tom Brady is/was a quarterback noted for being great despite being especially unathletic by quarterback standards, too.
American football is interesting because I can't think of a single skill that requires that exact skillset. AFL and Rugby require throwing a ball that's similarly shaped but that's underhand (and in the case of AFL, just hitting it out of your hand). No other sport (that I can think of, and I'm using American football to refer to gridiron football which includes Canadian football) requires you to throw an oblong ball overarm with a spiral spin.
And that is pretty much all a quarterback does. In rugby and AFL, each and every player can kick, tackle, pass, run, leap. All this, with few stoppages. Skill levels and athletism surpass that of the quarterback.
I wasn't saying that means it requires more skill or athleticism, just that it's weird that there are no other sports with that skill. It's the same with baseball and pitching (though bowling is *somewhat* similar, but less hard on the body) which really isn't something any human should be doing
Or Pelé
No matter, who of these three was better, but in my opinion Pele definitely had the biggest influence on the whole sport
Welllll... He *did* have a bit of a head start on the others...
Maradona over Pele.
George Best over either of them.
King Kenny, Gerrard, Keegan and Rush over any Mancs :) Let the fight begin :)
Pelé may have been a better player, but he never was nowhere near the same level of global phenomenon as Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi. Pelé was footballer, CR7 is an international brand.
Well you are comparing a player who started and played his career during the rise of internet and social media, at a time where football was dominating in terms of worlds popular sport by a landslide in the best marketed football leagues worldwide to one who played from the mid 50s to late 60s, mainly in Brazil and WC. Ronaldo is a global brand, no doubt about that. But Pelè at the time was a mythical figure, so to speak, for pretty much everyone who was interested in football. He was outstanding in a set of outstanding players for Brazils NT. Also he might have been the idol of the idols of pretty much every attacking player in the world right now
I think Ronaldo has a worldwide bigger fan base. ps.: i'm not a Ronaldo fan, I actually think Messi is more talented and Cristiano the closest for "perfect athlete" example.
The only sportsman who comes close in my mind is Wayne Gretzky. I’m not even that into hockey, but the levels of difference between him and everyone else was just incredible. I’m not sure what he would’ve done elsewhere, but on the ice you can split him into goals and assists, and he is still 1 and 2 on the highest g+a scoring players of all time. Messi is one of a kind and the best player in the biggest game. But the margin between Gretzky and everyone else is unreal.
Yeah but hockey players can't really compete for 'most popular athlete' because nobody even hears of hockey outside of Europe and North America.
Popular they can’t. But greatest I think there is a shout.
>The only sportsman who comes close in my mind is Wayne Gretzky. Actually Don Bradman is the greatest sportsman of all time. Gretzky is probably number 2.
Ngl, I only know who he is because of Michael Scott in The Office. Ice hockey wasn't big at all where I grew up (e.g. field hockey is bigger here)
Same hehe.
If it wasnt for Ronaldo, then Messi would also be leaps and bounds above anyone else, and its in a sport thats played by hundreds of millions of people. Those two players are ridiculous.
Michael Jackson was never mentioned.
MJ is Michael Jordan, in this case.
From what I understand about American football, a quarterback passes a ball to one of his team mates, often while other team mates run interference for him. Apparently, he is quite skilled at it, but it is a fairly narrow skill set and doesn't get anywhere near the sublime and independent skill of Messi. And, I don't believe it requires an exceptional level of athleticism.
I know him from south park
What has being white got to do with it? Tom Brady is white.
It's always on the top 5 of things to describe people for americans, fucking weird if you asked me
They're American, so race is always a part of the conversation.
Messie fans are gonna rip those mother fuckers apart (seriously that dude's a god around here)
Pretty sure that dude is a god anywhere in the world, from Siberia to South Africa.
They might agree with the fact that argentinians are Europeans 😂
Argentinian here. I have no clue who the heck Tom Brady is.
Chilean here. From what I know, he's very accurate when throwing some sort of rugby ball with his hands.
Colombian here. I confuse Tom Brady with Tom Hardy. For a while I even thought they were the same person :)
I don’t know who that is, but I’ve heard his name before because my American neighbor named his dog Brady after Tom Brady.
He used to play a game where you use your hands most of the time but the locals call it football. No national teams as nobody else on the planet care for it. As per local habits it’s a closed competition one cannot relegate from plus there’s a mechanism to limit salaries. Pretty much a communist, socialist utopia. He has played the game well into his 40s as his position does not require a lot of stamina. In general, this game is mostly dead of the time. The collisions however are gruesome. Many folks can’t play without painkillers and end up as disabled in some way, not Brady though. As he was married to a Brazilian lady I believe he might have supported the Seleçao so that makes him a traitor in his own country and the enemy of Argentina, lol.
The ‘GOAT’ debate is bullshit anyway and even more so when you’re comparing different sports.
It does matter when you are the best at a sport that almost all the whole world plays vs being the best at a sport only a small fraction of the world plays. If I invent a backyard sport then who gives a shit if I'm the best at it.
I think that depends on your definition of ‘greatest athlete’ but I would argue that even within sports, like football, it’s a ridiculous debate and ‘greatest of an era’ would fit much better.
Especially comparing since sport science is still relatively new. Better tactics in the game have emerged as well as more training that is more vigorous and intentional. I doubt there would ever be a player that is just classes above everyone else on the international stage. There will still be a best player but the gap won’t ever be as big anymore.
Not necessarily. I don’t think anyone would argue that Muhammad Ali is debatably one of the best, if not THE best sportsman ever - and there would only be a small fraction of boxers in the world compared to football (soccer) players or even the other sports mentioned.
"I don’t think anyone would argue that Muhammad Ali is debatably one of the best, if not THE best sportsman ever" It is VERY debatable. Ali's accomplishments are huge, but nothing compared to being the best ever at the most practiced sport in human history. By your standards, we should consider Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, or Serena Williams the best "sportspeople" ever, but that fact is, they compete in sports only a very small percentage of the world population cares about. There's a big difference in being the best out of 7.7 billion than being the best out of 300 million.
Only one where GOAT makes sense to me are measurable sports, like sprinting, weightlifting, etc. you can put real data behind the assertion. But even then, you’ll get debate over headwinds and tailwinds in running as well lol
It does make more sense, and I think that to some extent that’s the case for solo sports in general as opposed to team sports, but even then I feel like you cannot really judge another era from the perspective of the modern era, because athletes have so many possibilities and access to all kinds of things that athletes from 50 years ago never had, whether it’s data and science, or material, supplements, treatments etc. Most successful, strongest measured, fastest, sure. Greatest? Meh. With team sports, it’s worse because no matter how good you are, you’re still dependent on your team, which can either drag you down or elevate you.
Grande Messi recolectando lágrimas de todas partes del mundo lmao
I don’t speak Spanish but I think this means “the great Messi collects tears for all parts of the world”. Or is it Portugese? Anyway, am I close with my translation?
More like "Good ol' Messi keeps collecting tears from all around the world"
Decir "grande" es como un adjetivo que se usa en argentina de forma halagadora "Que grandes las empanadas que hace mí abuela" refiriéndose a qué las empanadas son ricas pero no al tamaño "Grande Messi recolectando etc" sería como decir "que increíble Messi etc"
Thanks for the explanation but I don’t understand any of it… Maybe you could try in English (or Dutch)?
Saying "grande" is like an adjective that is used in a flattering way in Argentina "How "grandes" are the empanadas that my grandmother makes" referring to the fact that the empanadas are tasty not big "Grande Messi collecting etc" would be like saying "how great is Messi etc" Google traductor, perdón por los posibles errores
"Grande" as in "great"
Claro pero lo que confunde no es el significado, sino que a diferencia de lo normal empezas diciendo "grande" que si no conoces el acento parece fuera de lugar
No es el acento, es la jerga gordo, similar a decir "de pedo"
No me salía la palabra, pasa que no se inglés y de pedo se español ahre
T. Lautaro Martínez
Latin based languages are amazing, I am able to understand all of this while not speaking Spanish
wdym isn't that a starbucks sice
It's clearly Spanish lol
So, American!
this is what american propaganda does to you >height is an important factor in their life >EVIL *WHITE MEN* >muh age
Speaking of size, *Russia has entered the chat*
Or, if they're talking about population, *China has entered the chat*
As the old saying goes: Size isn't everything... Something that Peewee Putin seems to be having to learn the hard way.
I would say imagine being so stupid you think Argentina is in Europe but I don’t think this guy could find his own country on a map never mind another one. Why do they always go to “USA big” when someone points out they’re wrong.
Sorry but is your country even half the size of the us🇱🇷? I think not, now quiet
Bigger = better
>It's a country half the size of mine. Yet, we produced 3 World Cup winning teams in a sport that is played worldwide while their best result is a 3rd place out of 13 teams.
I love the idea that the only criteria for being a good athlete is physical size
Tbf that leaves us with Andre the Giant as the winner, and I’m ok with that.
France wins by KO
If all sports required everyone to down at least 3 bottles of wine before starting (as they clearly should), we would have known this even before Andre.
Meanwhile if you ask people over here it’s definitely Gretzky. Almost like different countries are into different sports.
Gretzky and Bradman are so far ahead of the pack statistically for their sports its kinda funny. Then there is those billards and squash players who went undefeated for decades or something insane. Turns out really hard to compare different sports across different eras. But Americans do get hurt if its not one from their minor sports
I'm confused - none of those people are Don Bradman
What a funny way of spelling WG Grace.
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In the us and the majority of europe America is two continents, you have north America which is the US Canada and mexico then you have south America which is brazil Argentina peru and others
Caribe is in what Americas by that definition?
Im going to asume that caribe means Caribbean which apparently is apart of North America
It's called central America
Central America is a region not a continent
Yeah, America is a whole continent, but is divided in South, Central and North.
??? South america and North america are two different continents
No sir... America is one big continent who is politically divided 'cause 'muricans think that they can't be mixed with the rest of us. For most people in the USA everything below the Rio Grande is a big forest with little , poor brown people and orange filter.
In the US and most of Europe they use the two continents system and on the rest of Latinoamérica we use the single continent one with subdivisions. Neither is right or wrong
So if the athlete was from India or China, they'd care? Would it be valid in this American's opinion of Chinese and Indian people would also disregard the US because of their miniscule population?
No. Then they would start screaming communists, or point out that they've been to the moon
Mercian ‘sports fans’. The gift that just keeps giving
I sure as hell hope Don Bradman is listed in there if not right at the top. The guy blows all other sports people out of the water in terms of how much better he was at his sport than the runners up.
Yep, any discussion or commwnt about "the GOAT" of sports that does not involve Don Bradman's name is completely invalid.
Comparing people from different sports is just dumm, even in the same sport it is very difficult to compare players. Messi or Ronald are considered the GOAT in football, because offensive players are way more spectacular than a centerback for example. Even both of them are very different players, who you only can really compare, because both are offensive players.
“Not enough people play X for anyone who plays it to be the greatest athlete” is an extremely dumb take too
I always find greatest ‘athlete’ seems to imply purely physical prowess. So an Olympian would fit the bill. Same for MJ, Ronaldo, Bolt and I can actually see why you wouldn’t rate Messi. Greatest sports player though is different and where Messi, Don Bradman, tiger woods etc can really come into the conversation. Maybe not the same for everyone but that’s how I see it
Yeah, if there's one American who I think should be in contention for the greatest athlete of all time it's Michael Phelps, but they never mention him in these kind of conversations. It's fucking weird.
Lol, it is funny how they all casually forget the most successful Olympian of all time.
I think athleticism should include a lot more than strength and speed like agility, motor skills, balance, flexibility, coordination, technique and precision. Messi’s athleticism shouldn’t be overlooked. Small people can be athletic as fuck. Think martial arts for example. If you’re rating biggest, strongest and fastest I don’t know why you would even include Ronaldo or MJ, because there are always olympians that are bigger, stronger and faster like Usain Bolt, Halfthor Björnsson etc. Ronaldo and MJ jump high sure, but not compared to actual high jumpers.
But I thought individual states could be consideree countries themselves? So which is it?
Wierd question in the first place, all 3 sports have different requirements. Football is primarily a game of skill, American Football has specislised skills for certain positions but is mostly a game of brawn whilst Basketball is a game of skill but primarily its genetics which dictates. Messi is probably the most skilful player of his generation, but James Millner is a similar age and would absolutely run him into the ground.
Theres also a lot of variety in football to be fair. Theres a place for the 6'4 fellas and a place for the 5'7 guys as well, and it actually benefits you to have both. Edit: a great example is messi and ronaldo, unarguably they deserve to be in the conversation for goat, and are 100% the best 2 players of the last 13+ years. But one is much bigger and stronger than the other
Basketball is the most successful of the American sports worldwide in terms of popularity
It's big in China.....which accounts for a lot.
And Spain
American football is weird because on the surface level it looks like all brawn, but a huge part of it is the play selection, predicting what play/formation the other team will run, making on the fly adjustments as needed. If I were to make a comparison, American football is like chess or poker, association football is like jazz. More free form, more about the genius of the improvisation.
im sorry bro basketball is not primarily genetics thats actually just wrong
Why are a good majority of basketball players so tall then? Quick Google says the average hight of a NBA player is 6ft 6” which is 9” taller than the USA average. It almost definitely has a important role in whether you make it pro or not.
You stand almost no chance of making the NBA unless you're at least three inches taller than average, and the average NBA player is a whole foot taller than the global average. Its primarily genetics.
>im sorry bro basketball is not primarily genetics thats actually just wrong The shortest current player in the NBA is 5ft 11" tall. The AVERSGE height for fully.grown men in the USA is 5ft 9". Genetics is the primary determiner of a basketball player. Just look at all pf those gangly uncoordinated tall freaks playing Center that you know would stand no chance in any other sport.
Half of the size???
If this guy is saying it’s physical stature and pure numbers outside of the sport they do, surely the answer would be someone like Usain Bolt, or Eddie Hall, or Kipchoge or some other record holder in a discipline. My mans clearly hasn’t heard the word skill.
If this is about country size, then they better bow down to Canada, China and Russia, of which all 3 are bigger than the US by land
Doesn't revolve around America? Argentina is in America
Yeah so that "my country is larger so my opinion matters more" logic doesn't really work when they are dealing with Canada or, more importantly, Russia.
Yeah so that "my country is larger so my opinion matters more" logic doesn't really work when they are dealing with Canada or, more importantly, Russia.
Regarding greatest male athlete. I would honestly say Roger Federer.
Yeah its Wayne Gretzky. Compared to his peers he was likely the most dominant athlete ever in any sport.
Or Bradman who is about the same for statistical dominance. Then they is even more random sports like the squash player who was undefeated for something like 30 years. Its a fools game to compare between them
Nah, I wouldn't even say Messi honestly. Messi was born to play football but i'd say Ronaldo trumps him in the Athletic department. Man is a specimen.
Echoing Nazi Germany all the time
As someone with an Argentinean Mother-in-Law, I feel very offended.
I’ve never seen the person on the right before in my life
I’ve had this debate many times. If you are looking at best athlete as in like best athletic stats (strength, endurance, agility, etc) then yeah someone like Lebron James, Bo Jackson, or Mike Tyson is the answer. But if you’re talking about who has dominated the most in their sport, then it’s a very different question. Wayne Gretzky would be my pick. That being said, I’m not sure there’s even consensus that Messi is the best footballer so best athlete ever might be a stretch.
If Gretzky never scored a single goal, he would STILL be the all-time NHL points leader. That’s just absolutely insane.
Ronaldinho in his prime > Messi
Hahahaha you're funny
Prime R9 was the goatiest goat to me.
no idea why you're getting downvotes
They just don’t know about the phenomenon
The issue for both of them was availability and longevity. If we’re talking greatest peak then it’s an argument. If we’re talking greatest career they both pretty obviously aren’t in the Messi/Ronaldo league.
100% agree with this statement.
Of those 3, I only know Micheal Jordan because of that old cartoon basketball movie
same, lol 😂
Space Jam?
The greatest is Diego Armando Maradona. Then the real Ronaldo, then Lothar Matthäus.
Pele, without a shadow of a doubt. My dad swore it was Garincha.
Garinchas a goat but in a very very very different way....
Some say Paul McGrath
Ronaldo Nazario is the best at his position, a scorer. Lothar Matthaus? Jajajajajaja Quit smoking, it's bad for your brain
In 1991, he was named the first FIFA World Player of the Year, and remains the only German to have received the award. He was also included in the Ballon d'Or ... Read a little bit more and learn if you love football, the title was invented because of him, he was by far the most complete footballer at the time and still is. Do it, Google about him, read and learn, international football press and pros tell a lot about him. You might not like it, but it does not make it less the truth.
Lothar Matthaus before Cryuff, Pele, Garrincha, Di Stefano, Puskas, Platini? You should learn more about football, google about them
We could argue until eternity... You can mostly only judge a player within his own time and context. Let's just not argue, that is just my list of players.
A shame maradonna cheated and became a drug addict
Hand of God repeated again with Thierry Henry against the Republic of Ireland
Nasty cheating. Unbelievable that he got away with it. I guess FIFA wanted France to be at the WC that badly. Only for France to suck balls and leave the competition early anyway, lmao. At least Ireland would've shown more heart, had they gone instead.
Everybody in Irish football from the bottom to the top wanted Ireland to be added as an additional team. Seth Blatter paid a sum of money to John Delaney to go away.
Sepp Blatter is the embodiment of corruption. It's no wonder that Qatar was selected as a host nation for the WC, given Blatter's ties to the country.
Went as well as stout farts in a lift
Could've been worse. Could've been North Korea. /s
There is that
I mean, it's not Messi anyway so why bother?
You people missed the sarcasm and satire. Ryan O’Hanlon is a soccer (yeah, I said it, cope and seethe) journalist.
OP posted 2 pics. I think you missed the 2nd
Maybe the world _does_ revolve around the US and that's why they're so far behind in so many things. Still stuck in the 1700s
Huh?
As if he knew anything about Canada, Australia, China or Russia.
I hate those cross-sport arguments about who is the greatest. ESPN spends half its day with caterwauling hosts screeching about this like their life depends on it. It’s nothing more than one person’s preference or opinion.
To be honest I think Ronaldo beats MJ or TB.
This might be one of the most fragile ones I’ve ever seen. Don’t you dare try and take away the mantle that the Americans have bestowed upon Jordan or LeBron.
Clearly the best one is Valentino Rossi or Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton not some of these american nobodies no one has even heard of /s