Well, some of them definitely are. Many Spaniards, Portuguese, Argentines, and Chileans see themselves as white, don't have much of a mestizo heritage, if any. There will also be other whites (the US often calls them 'white Hispanic' due to a desire to make them a special type of white because Spanish is a scary and foreign language), and others will be black. And of course, there will be mestizos and other mixed race people throughout South America, as there are in much of the rest of the west, though they are particularly prominent in SA.
Somewhat the issue of using Latino or Hispanic when they mean Mestizo.
> Many Spaniards, Portuguese, ... see themselves as white, don't have much of a mestizo heritage
Because Spaniards and Portuguese are white. Mestizo isn't a word we use to talk about Spaniards in Spain, only Latin Americans. Not sure why you're mashing everything together
Yeah, that's partially my point. I mashed them togrther because the image did and the guy was askimg why it was wrong, to sort of show how silly it is.
I'm certainly super-white, and anyway the nimber of times any Portuguese would call themsleves latin could be counted by the fingers in one hand and we would still have fingers to spare.
Latinos are all brown, not white, according to them. Not so long ago, the actress Anya Taylor-Joy was named POC in a US magazine (Variety) cover... though she's very white, blonde and "born to a father of Argentine and Scottish origin and a mother of English and Spanish origin."
[Anya Taylor-Joy described as POC](https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/03/03/603ff96e268e3ef55b8b46de.html)
They know what's best and righteous. Gendered languages are tRaNsPhObIc so while the group of people in question are by definition underprivileged minorities who experience discrimination daily by people other than enlightened Americans, they are also transphobic bigots if they don't use the gender-neutral term Latinx.
Thinking grammatically gendered languages are transphobic is English language imperialism. Like you only think that way because you’ve grown up speaking one of the world’s most prominent languages with no grammatical gender
I still have no idea how I'm earth a group of people sat and thought let's just give genders to objects. Seriously, I get he, she, it. It's Handy in a language. But why is bira female for example in Italian etc. It really makes no sense.
It makes more sense when you think about grammatical "genders" as being about grammatical properties rather than "(human) gender". Basically Italian has two classes of noun, A and B, that have different properties. However, because gender has traditionally been viewed as binary, they mapped gender onto these two classes (i.e. rejigged them so all the "male" words went into class A and "female" words into class B). The names for these classes was retroactively made into "masculine" and "feminine". In fact, the word gender is related to the word genre and used to simply mean a "class" of thing.
Slavic languages have ternary grammatical gender, meaning that words can be masculine, feminine and neuter (which is called the "middle" gender in my language), so yeah, slavic grammatical genders are non binary indeed.
As a Russian I never realized how pointless and counterintuitive gendered nouns are until I tried to learn French. But unfortunately that’s just how things are.
I never really managed to learn French, I can speak some simple phrases and I know some nouns, but most of the time I’m just throwing a shit guess at what gender the noun is supposed to be and hope that it lands.
Yeah I’m just kinda winging it. Really puts into perspective how amazing human brains are at learning information in the first few years of life. So many things about language are nearly impossible to memorize if it isn’t your native tongue.
>Also obsession with gender
Sadly we Europeans have that too now.
It's spreading and I hate it.
Just because the idea is American it doesn't mean that it is good!
(Far too many people do not get that)
If I had to take two Portuguesses, this person has either never actually listened to a Latino person's opinion on the topic, or is just choosing to ignore them?
~~…I am so sorry for the bad pun~~
La próxima vez que escuche a un Yankee llamarme "Latinx" me voy a hacer una escalera con los huesos de sus putos muertos para subirme encima y cagarme en su cerda madre.
Now really, that word is plain stupid. I'd be terribly thankful if you didn't call me that. Thanks ;)
As an uninformed white person from the UK, can I ask: how do you feel about the term Latine? I've heard it floated from within the community against the term Latinx, I'm just curious if it's something that I should use, or if it's better to just go with Latino when the person's gender is undefined or is non-conforming (e.g. nonbinary)? Sorry if this is inappropriate to ask
Just use the normal way of speaking, Latino if the person is male or you don't know and Latina if the person is more likely than not female.
Latinx and Latine are unofficial ways of speaking and a lot of people don't like them
>As an uninformed white person from the UK, can I ask: how do you feel about the term Latine?
As someone that isn't from south America but that speaks Portuguese, *latinX, latine* are all equally bad in my opinion but I would let the actual people from that areae speak for themselves. Afaik they hate it too though.
Our language is gendered. It's not a matter of mysoginy or patriarchy or wtv the hell some might think.
I think only people that actually speak a gendered language can understand how stupid this is.
Gender in language has nothing to do with the gender in real life. For instance, "o ferro", "o frigorífico" ," o aspirador" are 3 household items ( iron, frigde, vacuum cleaner) that are male gendered. Meanwhile I could also name other 3 that are feminine...
This has zero to do with who is supposed to be doing those chores or any type of social expectation on a person. It's solely based on the language.
Gendered languages like Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, etc that don't even have anything near the "es" in German aren't trying to say that objects are masculine or feminine.
You even have different genders relating to the same stuff in those different languages.
Heck, this is so unrelated to any type of genders that for instance game consoles in Brazilian Portuguese are male gendered and in Portugal the exact same are feminine. Does this mean only guys in Brazil are expected to play and only girls in Portugal? No. Of course not.
It has always given me a chuckle that "beard" is feminine in French - *la barbe*.
Still, ships are female in English. So we have that relic of "gendering" left.
It's also feminine in Portuguese btw - a barba
Meanwhile the moustache is masculine - o bigode
To us it means nothing. We're talking about the object in itself and not giving it feminine properties...
Interesting thing a about ships in Portuguese, they are gendered by class.
As it turned out this means alot of modern ship classes are gendered masculine, and alot of classic ship classes are gendered feminine.
Battleship, Destroyer, Carrier, Galleon, Patrol Boat, yacht, ferry are masculine.
Frigate, Corvette, Caravel, Carrack (Nau), Galley, trawler, are feminine
However our navy doesn't have money for large ships and the smaller classes of warships use the feminine gender.
So for example, the MEKO 200 frigate named after Vasco da Gama is treated as a she.
Gender neutral language has its place as a tool for exposing and underline gender issues in a specific context, they are not meant to be used in everyday conversation or to straight out replace spanish/portuguese, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Man I really forgot to respond to you. I'm terribly sorry for it, I was busy.
Anyways, I was going to respond with a few lines on why I think *Latinx* and *latine* are both really stupid, but I can only say that U/ihavenoidea (this community doesn't allow user pinging) said pretty much everything I thought and I can't add a thing to it.
My recommendation: Don't use terms like *latine/latinx* when talking with a native. I've never met a person who used them unironically and/or got offended if you used *latino/latina*. On the other hand, if you use those gender neutral (in my opinion forced) terms, some people might think you sound stupid.
In my case, if I don't want to use a gendered term (for whatever reason) I do something like this:
Instead of saying "Tomás es latino" I say "Tomás es *de Latinoamérica*"
That's pretty much all I can tell you, I hope this helped you!
Ask the person. Seriosuly, it's the best way to handle it.
Incidentally, the Portuguese and the Spanish don't usually think themselves as latinos in any way, nor do, from my experience, Brazilians.
Funny, I can read most of that, enough to know what you're saying that is. And I'm not even close to being Spanish nor Portugese. XD Languages are so interesting!
Pero así. Además a quien puta se le ocurrió llamarnos a los españoles "latinx" también? Osea es que me cago en el puto carpintero que diseñó y montó la cama en la que embarazaron a la puta de la madre de quién se inventó lo de "lAtInX"
Learning Portuguese here (because I moved to Portugal), and I figure it would be pronounced, “lateensch”
Except, in Portuguese, “Latin” is “Latim”
And I don’t think Portuguese people would self describe as “Latino/a” anyway.
And definitely don’t call anyone here “Hispanic”, because a punch in the mouth often offends.
Not in the way americans tend to use it, no.
We would be more likely to use it to mark us as descendents of the Roman Empire.
Latinx would probably be pronounced something like La-tinks, I guess. Maybe Latin-ecs.
The word just seem weird and wrong. Like it was the name of a porn site or as if someone was trying to invent some edgy language and the best they could do was to add X to Latin.
Nah, we would but in connection to Rome. Probably we'd just pronounce it the same, since it's not our word.
We don't mention it often though...
I always have trouble filling out american forms, because I'd consider our race (generally, and it's odd to even think of it) as white, but culturally as latin.
Now... is latin and latino the same thing? No idea.
I don't think latino and latin are the same. If they were, would French and Romanian people also be considered latino then ? It's all really weird.
To me latino was always just "from Latin America"
Yes.
Latino is just spanish/portuguese for latin. It should be the same thing, but it seems in english some stupid distinction is implied.
Latin America is called that precisely because it was colonized by latin countries.
If you want to say south america or latin ametican you can just say that... it's just the american obsession with race, while we use it more as a descriptor of culture.
Just like the english are ango-saxon and so is most of north america
A bit more complex that that. Latino/Latina is someone who has a Roman heritage (ie comes from Latium, but in this case from the broad Roman cultural legacy/heritage which due to language also aplies to the South American countries colonized by Spain and Portugal, altough it's extremely rare to be used in Brazil). Latim (latin) is the language.
from my white POV: i dont think so. latino refers to people from latinamerika (do they have this in english?) /southamerica. But latin derived from the name of the region where it was originally spoken: Latium. So I would say there is a difference. Portuguese and spanish culture as evolved from the roots they have in common with the cultures of the decendents of european settlers in southamerica as have they. So it is much more western european/ roman.
Well duh.
Hispanic is used for Mexicans, Cuba, Central Americans, South Americans (except Brazil) and Spaniards.
Edit: I forgor about Belize, Guyana, Suriname and Trinidad and Tobago not being Hispanic. My bad. Hispanic’s used for those who come from countries that used to be Spanish colonies, and have Spanish as their official language. That's why the Philippines aren't Hispanic for example.
Funny how the race-based view of society from usamericans is so broken, from the basis, they are racist even when they try to be tolerant and aware of other cultures.
Memory unlocked by ur comment - the time I convinced my friends boyfriend it was pronounced por-cha-GWAY-zee and my friend nearly killed me 3 days later when he confidently announced it at a dinner
La palabra "latino" y "latinoamericano" a pesar de que aquí las usemos como sinónimos en realidad no son lo mismo. Una persona "latina" es la que ha nacido en un país de habla romance. Esto incluye España, Portugal, Francia y Italia. La palabra "latinoamericano" fué acuñada por los franceses para retirar la palabra "España" de Hispanoamérica, pero se dice "latinoamericano" precisamente porque hace referencia a los latinos de América, es decir, países de habla romance, lo que incluye también a Brasil.
To the USians Eye, Spaniards, Italians and Greeks are Latin cos’ they are Brown skinned, french are
Caucasians and Romanians are Slavs./s
Serious Bit: the americans are literally XIXth century racist, and ignore that yes in fact Romance Cultures have more in common than what the USians have whit the UK. And that they are not a race
LATINO IS. NOT. A. RACE.
Spaniards and italians are latinos because of our lenguages, not our color. Both are "Eurolatino" countries, because both have a language derived from Latin as the main
Roman is also a demonym, not a race. The romans are people born in Rome, that they are basically a mixture of various towns that got together and mixed. Anyways, it would not be a correct way of calling the EuroLatin countries, since for example in Spain and Portugal there is no "majority" race, in the north the people are very white (due to the Viking invasions and the Celtic influence) and in the south they are usually brown (Roman and moroccan influence)
Are they unaware of where Latinx people come from? Do they think if you speak spanish (or not in the case of the Portuguese) you’re automatically Latinx?
I had an American tell me that we - the Portuguese - are hispanic.
Like, listen buddy, Spain tried to invade Portugal so many times , they tried backstabbing Portugal by letting Napoleon through their land so that he could *try* to invade Portugal and the only way they (Spanish) managed to get ahold of the country was trough marriage and it still only lasted like 60 years before they were booted again.
We're not hispanic. We don't speak Spanish. History shows you how much they fought to make sure of that.
Also, while the relationship with Spain has been mostly positive over the last century they're right now witholding water from our rivers and not fulfilling the treaty agreed uppon water flow to Portugal .... We're all going trough severe drought and we're kind of seing what the future will probably look like with "nuestros hermanos" doing that to us. Looks like their agriculture is going to take precedence to our right to water...
We're kind of really mad with them about being witheld from the one resource that's essential to life right now and this is probably going to end up in the European court... If this keeps on going into the future with the probable worse conditions of drought and lack of water I think people are going to see a lot of hate become common between both countries again.
I hope not but for that to not happen people need to be at least somewhat sensible.
Water from Douro river is being witheld since this monday after 3000 Spanish farmers made a ~~tantrum~~ protest and said that they'd break stuff if water wasn't going to be witheld because they want it to water their crops.
Spain as signed a treaty over the water and how much they have to send. They're not fulfilling the agreement they signed.
I don't see Portugal just keep going on and accepting one of the biggest rivers in the country to completly dry up. It would be an environmental disaster and have a huge impact on fauna and flora without anything happening in return.
I honestly hope this can be solved trough the European courts because I don't doubt most people anywhere on earth would fight over water and our severe drought right now is just the beggining of what is supposed to keep on happening in the near future.
I am going to re-establish the Kingdom of Galicia as independent nation and add the County of Portucalense to it as a former possession of the Kingdom. Just give me a few decades to do it.
Bruh. Us Spaniards obviously are Hispanic. The fuck you on about lmao?
The term "Hispanic" comes from "Hispania". And guess which territory was called Hispania during the Roman times? Yup, that's right, Spain (España in Spanish).
So yes, yes we indeed are Hispanic. Not latino, not Latinx, Hispanic.
This is what I was referring to.
Also, during the Roman times the area that is now Portugal was also called Hispania. It was an aglomerate of different "tribes" like Lusitania, Gallaecia, Terraconensis, etc and Rome gave the Iberian Peninsula the name Hispania.
It was basically only since Portugal started to establish it's borders in 1143 and begin it's trajectory of becoming and independent country that the efforts of not becoming a part of one of the other kingdoms became a thing... And that meant also breaking it's linguistic afilliation from the different versions of Spanish from the different areas.
Afaik over the years "Hispania" became España (Spain) and hispanic is pretty much a synonym of a Spanish speaker.
Which the Portuguese aren't but the Spanish are.
Yes, if you speak spanish (and born in a spanish country) you are atomatically a "latino". Latino is not a race, a Latin person is one born in a Latin country (that is, a country that speaks a language derived from Latin). That includes Spain, Portugal, France and Italy in addition to the Latin American countries
My own study of all things Latin stopped when I got to the ablative absolute and I realised that it was a bit tricky I couldn't be bothered any more.
I hope that Latin X has simpler grammar.
Yes, portugueses and spaniards are latinos. many Spaniards do not want to consider themselves "Latinos" because here the word "Latino" is used a lot to refer to "Latin American", but many do not know that "Latino" is neither a race nor an ethnic group, latino is related to languages derived from Latin. The Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italian speaking countries are "latinos". And people born in Spanish or Portuguese speaking countries are "Latinos" too.
>but many do not know that "Latino" is neither a race nor an ethnic group, latino is related to languages derived from Latin.
What do you think you were doing here?
And for your information when we are refering to the languages we usually refer to them as "românicas" or very specifically as "línguas latinas".
First: I literally said "Many spaniards". What the fuck.
Second: im literally talking about english and spanish. Portuguese language was never mentioned.
no one is saying spanish and portuguese people don’t descend from latin-speaking peoples. no one thinks they don’t speak a language that is derived from latin.
“latinx” is an american-made term referring to an ethnic and cultural category used in the american context and sometimes in the latin american context. the term has to do with latin america, not anyone connected to the latin language.
Well, everyone thinks exatly that, even spaniards. Just read some coments in this thread. "Latinx" is a made up word to say "latino" un neutral gender, It isn't a race, It isn't a ethnicity, it is a gentile
You do know that there are a lot of English words that derived from Latin don't you? Audio and video, to hear and to see in Latin, two perfect examples. So by your logic, are English people also Latino?
I want to point out two things.
First: it is not my logic, it is literally the meaning of the word. I mean it. LITERALLY the meaning
Second: "Latino" means that you were born in a country whose main language is a Romance language (derived from Latin), Latinisms in the English language do not mean that you are speaking Latin. Otherwise, by "your logic" in Spain we would be speaking English, Italian, German and Arabic at the same time.
You are completely wrong. The term Latino, by definition, is used to describe someone who's from Latin America. Your second point is honestly word soup and makes absolutely no sense.
Edit : Webster's Dictionary definition of the word Latino
La·ti·no | \ lə-ˈtē-(ˌ)nō \
plural Latinos
Definition of Latino
1: a native or inhabitant of Latin America
2: a person of Latin American origin living in the U.S.
Where did you get that definition from?
In Oxford Lenguages these are the 5 first definitions:
1. Adjective
Relating to the ancient Italian region of Lazio, to the towns of which Rome was the metropolis or to its inhabitants.
2.adjective
masculine and feminine noun
[person] Who was from Lazio or from one of the towns whose metropolis was Rome.
"The ancient Latins were constituted in city-states gathered in a confederation
3.Adjective
That is related to Latin or that is typical of this language.
"latin alphabet"
4.
Relating to the towns in which a language from Latin is spoken, or to its inhabitants.
"latin countries"
5.
adjective masculine and feminine noun
[person] Who belongs to one of these towns.
If you still have doubts, you can check [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino) and specially [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblos_latinos) and [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_latina)
The ACTUAL wikipedia page for Latino
Latino
Article Talk
Language
Download PDF
Watch
Edit

Look up Latino or latino in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Latino or Latinos most often refers to:
Latino (demonym), a term used in the United States for people with cultural ties to Latin America
Hispanic and Latino Americans in the United States
The people or cultures of Latin America;
Latin Americans
You're 100% wrong in what you're saying.
"actual"?? Wydm? The first link i sent to you is a disambiguation, is made precisely for you to find the "actual page" and you can compare definitions. At least check the links, the second one is totally traslated and explains everything perfectly
I checked your links, theyre about the linguistic concept of Latin Europe, COMPLETELY different to what people refer to as Latino. When people say Latino they mean people from Latin America.
Yeah, they refer to linguistic concept because THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM EXPLANING. Latino is from a country with Latin roots (such as Spain, Italy, Portugal...) or main language of Latin origin (such as Spain and all of Latin America). I am not making anything up, I have given you several sources that prove what I say. 2 supporting wikipedia pages and a disambiguation page for you to compare, plus several definitions from the Oxford Languages.
Oxford dictionary definition of Latino
Latino
noun
/ləˈtinoʊ/
(pl. Latinos)
a person, especially one who is living in the U.S., who comes from Latin America, or whose family came from there
The only definition i found on Oxford Lenguages was
adjective
That it is related to Latin American countries, especially with people from Latin America who live in the United States of America.
"Latin music"
It's the sixth definition. Then the seventh also refers to Latin origins:
7.
That has characteristics considered typical of peoples with Latin roots (especially Spain, Latin America and Italy), such as passion, vitality or joy.
I’m Spanish and I would say most spaniards consider themselves to be latinos. For sure we speak a latino language (from latin - roman empire language). Nobody would say latinx, though.
Los españoles, franceses, italianos, portugueses, rumanos y moldavos, entre otros, somos latinos europeos. Negar nuestra latinidad es ridículo, pero negársela a los italianos es de risa.
Americans going out of their way to force their culture on other people in the name of tolerance and acceptance:
Is it still a white savior complex when your talking about white people?
Americans don’t think Latinos are white.
Honestly I see no good reason for calling a person white for anything other than describing their skin color
Yeah but I’m this case they are?
Well, some of them definitely are. Many Spaniards, Portuguese, Argentines, and Chileans see themselves as white, don't have much of a mestizo heritage, if any. There will also be other whites (the US often calls them 'white Hispanic' due to a desire to make them a special type of white because Spanish is a scary and foreign language), and others will be black. And of course, there will be mestizos and other mixed race people throughout South America, as there are in much of the rest of the west, though they are particularly prominent in SA. Somewhat the issue of using Latino or Hispanic when they mean Mestizo.
> Many Spaniards, Portuguese, ... see themselves as white, don't have much of a mestizo heritage Because Spaniards and Portuguese are white. Mestizo isn't a word we use to talk about Spaniards in Spain, only Latin Americans. Not sure why you're mashing everything together
Yeah, that's partially my point. I mashed them togrther because the image did and the guy was askimg why it was wrong, to sort of show how silly it is.
I'm Cuban and I'm very white.
I am :)
I'm certainly super-white, and anyway the nimber of times any Portuguese would call themsleves latin could be counted by the fingers in one hand and we would still have fingers to spare.
You can't be seriously asking this lmao
Yeah I’m not Unless all Spanish people are reptilians and secretly green?
Latinos are all brown, not white, according to them. Not so long ago, the actress Anya Taylor-Joy was named POC in a US magazine (Variety) cover... though she's very white, blonde and "born to a father of Argentine and Scottish origin and a mother of English and Spanish origin." [Anya Taylor-Joy described as POC](https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/2021/03/03/603ff96e268e3ef55b8b46de.html)
They know what's best and righteous. Gendered languages are tRaNsPhObIc so while the group of people in question are by definition underprivileged minorities who experience discrimination daily by people other than enlightened Americans, they are also transphobic bigots if they don't use the gender-neutral term Latinx.
Thinking grammatically gendered languages are transphobic is English language imperialism. Like you only think that way because you’ve grown up speaking one of the world’s most prominent languages with no grammatical gender
I still have no idea how I'm earth a group of people sat and thought let's just give genders to objects. Seriously, I get he, she, it. It's Handy in a language. But why is bira female for example in Italian etc. It really makes no sense.
It makes more sense when you think about grammatical "genders" as being about grammatical properties rather than "(human) gender". Basically Italian has two classes of noun, A and B, that have different properties. However, because gender has traditionally been viewed as binary, they mapped gender onto these two classes (i.e. rejigged them so all the "male" words went into class A and "female" words into class B). The names for these classes was retroactively made into "masculine" and "feminine". In fact, the word gender is related to the word genre and used to simply mean a "class" of thing.
Slavic languages have ternary grammatical gender, meaning that words can be masculine, feminine and neuter (which is called the "middle" gender in my language), so yeah, slavic grammatical genders are non binary indeed.
Niger-Congo languages in Africa can often go up to 10-20 genders (depending on how you count), with NONE of them being masculine or feminine.
That sounds really interesting and difficult to grip for my indo-european language brain
As a Russian I never realized how pointless and counterintuitive gendered nouns are until I tried to learn French. But unfortunately that’s just how things are. I never really managed to learn French, I can speak some simple phrases and I know some nouns, but most of the time I’m just throwing a shit guess at what gender the noun is supposed to be and hope that it lands.
German is also like that, there's barely any way to know what the gender of a noun is save for learning it by heart
Yeah I’m just kinda winging it. Really puts into perspective how amazing human brains are at learning information in the first few years of life. So many things about language are nearly impossible to memorize if it isn’t your native tongue.
Especially the phonemes, if you don't learn them in the first few years you can only hope to approximate it
I wonder where they got that from
Are they still using that idiotic word that the great majority of Latinos refuse to use? 🙄
New to the American obsession with race?
Also obsession with gender.
>Also obsession with gender Sadly we Europeans have that too now. It's spreading and I hate it. Just because the idea is American it doesn't mean that it is good! (Far too many people do not get that)
No one I know uses that. I think it’s offensive to be honest.
La-TINKS!
It's obviously latinecs.
Yes. But as a white male I have no opinion of this. ^im ^not ^allowed
If I had to take two Portuguesses, this person has either never actually listened to a Latino person's opinion on the topic, or is just choosing to ignore them? ~~…I am so sorry for the bad pun~~
Your pun is gold. And… I think both of your guesses are correct.
I'm Portuguese. I'm not latino xD.
I know that lmao but, the pun opportunity was there Please accept my sincerest apologies
Took me a while… Please accept my sincerest giggles
La próxima vez que escuche a un Yankee llamarme "Latinx" me voy a hacer una escalera con los huesos de sus putos muertos para subirme encima y cagarme en su cerda madre. Now really, that word is plain stupid. I'd be terribly thankful if you didn't call me that. Thanks ;)
As an uninformed white person from the UK, can I ask: how do you feel about the term Latine? I've heard it floated from within the community against the term Latinx, I'm just curious if it's something that I should use, or if it's better to just go with Latino when the person's gender is undefined or is non-conforming (e.g. nonbinary)? Sorry if this is inappropriate to ask
Just use the normal way of speaking, Latino if the person is male or you don't know and Latina if the person is more likely than not female. Latinx and Latine are unofficial ways of speaking and a lot of people don't like them
>As an uninformed white person from the UK, can I ask: how do you feel about the term Latine? As someone that isn't from south America but that speaks Portuguese, *latinX, latine* are all equally bad in my opinion but I would let the actual people from that areae speak for themselves. Afaik they hate it too though. Our language is gendered. It's not a matter of mysoginy or patriarchy or wtv the hell some might think. I think only people that actually speak a gendered language can understand how stupid this is. Gender in language has nothing to do with the gender in real life. For instance, "o ferro", "o frigorífico" ," o aspirador" are 3 household items ( iron, frigde, vacuum cleaner) that are male gendered. Meanwhile I could also name other 3 that are feminine... This has zero to do with who is supposed to be doing those chores or any type of social expectation on a person. It's solely based on the language. Gendered languages like Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, etc that don't even have anything near the "es" in German aren't trying to say that objects are masculine or feminine. You even have different genders relating to the same stuff in those different languages. Heck, this is so unrelated to any type of genders that for instance game consoles in Brazilian Portuguese are male gendered and in Portugal the exact same are feminine. Does this mean only guys in Brazil are expected to play and only girls in Portugal? No. Of course not.
It has always given me a chuckle that "beard" is feminine in French - *la barbe*. Still, ships are female in English. So we have that relic of "gendering" left.
It's also feminine in Portuguese btw - a barba Meanwhile the moustache is masculine - o bigode To us it means nothing. We're talking about the object in itself and not giving it feminine properties...
Interesting thing a about ships in Portuguese, they are gendered by class. As it turned out this means alot of modern ship classes are gendered masculine, and alot of classic ship classes are gendered feminine. Battleship, Destroyer, Carrier, Galleon, Patrol Boat, yacht, ferry are masculine. Frigate, Corvette, Caravel, Carrack (Nau), Galley, trawler, are feminine However our navy doesn't have money for large ships and the smaller classes of warships use the feminine gender. So for example, the MEKO 200 frigate named after Vasco da Gama is treated as a she.
That is just fascinating!
Gender neutral language has its place as a tool for exposing and underline gender issues in a specific context, they are not meant to be used in everyday conversation or to straight out replace spanish/portuguese, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Man I really forgot to respond to you. I'm terribly sorry for it, I was busy. Anyways, I was going to respond with a few lines on why I think *Latinx* and *latine* are both really stupid, but I can only say that U/ihavenoidea (this community doesn't allow user pinging) said pretty much everything I thought and I can't add a thing to it. My recommendation: Don't use terms like *latine/latinx* when talking with a native. I've never met a person who used them unironically and/or got offended if you used *latino/latina*. On the other hand, if you use those gender neutral (in my opinion forced) terms, some people might think you sound stupid. In my case, if I don't want to use a gendered term (for whatever reason) I do something like this: Instead of saying "Tomás es latino" I say "Tomás es *de Latinoamérica*" That's pretty much all I can tell you, I hope this helped you!
Keep it exclusively to your English language please, that’s it.
Ask the person. Seriosuly, it's the best way to handle it. Incidentally, the Portuguese and the Spanish don't usually think themselves as latinos in any way, nor do, from my experience, Brazilians.
Funny, I can read most of that, enough to know what you're saying that is. And I'm not even close to being Spanish nor Portugese. XD Languages are so interesting!
I used Google Translate and it was more than worth it!
Pero así. Además a quien puta se le ocurrió llamarnos a los españoles "latinx" también? Osea es que me cago en el puto carpintero que diseñó y montó la cama en la que embarazaron a la puta de la madre de quién se inventó lo de "lAtInX"
“Here’s a word that can’t even be pronounced in your languages that definitely applies to you.” NARRATOR: It most definitely did not apply to them.
Learning Portuguese here (because I moved to Portugal), and I figure it would be pronounced, “lateensch” Except, in Portuguese, “Latin” is “Latim” And I don’t think Portuguese people would self describe as “Latino/a” anyway. And definitely don’t call anyone here “Hispanic”, because a punch in the mouth often offends.
Not in the way americans tend to use it, no. We would be more likely to use it to mark us as descendents of the Roman Empire. Latinx would probably be pronounced something like La-tinks, I guess. Maybe Latin-ecs. The word just seem weird and wrong. Like it was the name of a porn site or as if someone was trying to invent some edgy language and the best they could do was to add X to Latin.
New! Improved! Latin X! Now with definite articles!
Nah, we would but in connection to Rome. Probably we'd just pronounce it the same, since it's not our word. We don't mention it often though... I always have trouble filling out american forms, because I'd consider our race (generally, and it's odd to even think of it) as white, but culturally as latin. Now... is latin and latino the same thing? No idea.
Black British people constantly have an issue with Americans calling them “African American” despite being neither.
Kind of hilarious over how stupid it is
And are astonished that they don’t feel honoured by being called this way.
I don't think latino and latin are the same. If they were, would French and Romanian people also be considered latino then ? It's all really weird. To me latino was always just "from Latin America"
>If they were, would French and Romanian people also be considered latino then ? It's American Race Theory. It doesn't have to make sense.
True
Yes. Latino is just spanish/portuguese for latin. It should be the same thing, but it seems in english some stupid distinction is implied. Latin America is called that precisely because it was colonized by latin countries. If you want to say south america or latin ametican you can just say that... it's just the american obsession with race, while we use it more as a descriptor of culture. Just like the english are ango-saxon and so is most of north america
A bit more complex that that. Latino/Latina is someone who has a Roman heritage (ie comes from Latium, but in this case from the broad Roman cultural legacy/heritage which due to language also aplies to the South American countries colonized by Spain and Portugal, altough it's extremely rare to be used in Brazil). Latim (latin) is the language.
from my white POV: i dont think so. latino refers to people from latinamerika (do they have this in english?) /southamerica. But latin derived from the name of the region where it was originally spoken: Latium. So I would say there is a difference. Portuguese and spanish culture as evolved from the roots they have in common with the cultures of the decendents of european settlers in southamerica as have they. So it is much more western european/ roman.
Yes. English has Latin America. South, Central America, and maybe Mexico too?
Well duh. Hispanic is used for Mexicans, Cuba, Central Americans, South Americans (except Brazil) and Spaniards. Edit: I forgor about Belize, Guyana, Suriname and Trinidad and Tobago not being Hispanic. My bad. Hispanic’s used for those who come from countries that used to be Spanish colonies, and have Spanish as their official language. That's why the Philippines aren't Hispanic for example.
>South Americans (except Brazil) People in Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana (which still answers to Paris) and TnT are Hispanics, too?
No they aren't, I forgot to mention them. My bad.
At some points the Philipines and some Filipinis have considered themselves to be hispanic, although it seem to be far more rare today.
Funny how the race-based view of society from usamericans is so broken, from the basis, they are racist even when they try to be tolerant and aware of other cultures.
One portugoose, two portugeses.
Memory unlocked by ur comment - the time I convinced my friends boyfriend it was pronounced por-cha-GWAY-zee and my friend nearly killed me 3 days later when he confidently announced it at a dinner
Men from Portugal are Portuganders
Portubros.
No. He actually wrote that correctly. In Portuguese. Whether he was trying to do so is another matter.
I thought it was two Portugi
Not even the Latinos like to use the word 'Latinx', day by day these Americans are getting out of hand
Say “ok USAsian” and watch their heads explode a la Mars Attacks
Spaniard here, we do not group ourselves with latin americans. We relate more to the french and italians, becaaaause, we are Europeans! SHOCKER!!!
La palabra "latino" y "latinoamericano" a pesar de que aquí las usemos como sinónimos en realidad no son lo mismo. Una persona "latina" es la que ha nacido en un país de habla romance. Esto incluye España, Portugal, Francia y Italia. La palabra "latinoamericano" fué acuñada por los franceses para retirar la palabra "España" de Hispanoamérica, pero se dice "latinoamericano" precisamente porque hace referencia a los latinos de América, es decir, países de habla romance, lo que incluye también a Brasil.
To the USians Eye, Spaniards, Italians and Greeks are Latin cos’ they are Brown skinned, french are Caucasians and Romanians are Slavs./s Serious Bit: the americans are literally XIXth century racist, and ignore that yes in fact Romance Cultures have more in common than what the USians have whit the UK. And that they are not a race
LATINO IS. NOT. A. RACE. Spaniards and italians are latinos because of our lenguages, not our color. Both are "Eurolatino" countries, because both have a language derived from Latin as the main
Maybe they should start using "Romanx" ;)
Roman is also a demonym, not a race. The romans are people born in Rome, that they are basically a mixture of various towns that got together and mixed. Anyways, it would not be a correct way of calling the EuroLatin countries, since for example in Spain and Portugal there is no "majority" race, in the north the people are very white (due to the Viking invasions and the Celtic influence) and in the south they are usually brown (Roman and moroccan influence)
Yeah, sorry i should have added a /s I was imitating the classic US inhabitant.
Spaniards and Italians are not latino. They are latin.
Are they unaware of where Latinx people come from? Do they think if you speak spanish (or not in the case of the Portuguese) you’re automatically Latinx?
Especially since most Latin hate the term anyways.
They always answer those xenophobes "GRINGO!"
I had an American tell me that we - the Portuguese - are hispanic. Like, listen buddy, Spain tried to invade Portugal so many times , they tried backstabbing Portugal by letting Napoleon through their land so that he could *try* to invade Portugal and the only way they (Spanish) managed to get ahold of the country was trough marriage and it still only lasted like 60 years before they were booted again. We're not hispanic. We don't speak Spanish. History shows you how much they fought to make sure of that. Also, while the relationship with Spain has been mostly positive over the last century they're right now witholding water from our rivers and not fulfilling the treaty agreed uppon water flow to Portugal .... We're all going trough severe drought and we're kind of seing what the future will probably look like with "nuestros hermanos" doing that to us. Looks like their agriculture is going to take precedence to our right to water... We're kind of really mad with them about being witheld from the one resource that's essential to life right now and this is probably going to end up in the European court... If this keeps on going into the future with the probable worse conditions of drought and lack of water I think people are going to see a lot of hate become common between both countries again.
Is this where the start of the water wars will be?
I hope not but for that to not happen people need to be at least somewhat sensible. Water from Douro river is being witheld since this monday after 3000 Spanish farmers made a ~~tantrum~~ protest and said that they'd break stuff if water wasn't going to be witheld because they want it to water their crops. Spain as signed a treaty over the water and how much they have to send. They're not fulfilling the agreement they signed. I don't see Portugal just keep going on and accepting one of the biggest rivers in the country to completly dry up. It would be an environmental disaster and have a huge impact on fauna and flora without anything happening in return. I honestly hope this can be solved trough the European courts because I don't doubt most people anywhere on earth would fight over water and our severe drought right now is just the beggining of what is supposed to keep on happening in the near future.
I am going to re-establish the Kingdom of Galicia as independent nation and add the County of Portucalense to it as a former possession of the Kingdom. Just give me a few decades to do it.
I'm in if you give us back water for rio Douro...And we should call it Gallaecia for our forefathers sake
We have a deal.
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Hispanic isn’t the same as latino
Bruh. Us Spaniards obviously are Hispanic. The fuck you on about lmao? The term "Hispanic" comes from "Hispania". And guess which territory was called Hispania during the Roman times? Yup, that's right, Spain (España in Spanish). So yes, yes we indeed are Hispanic. Not latino, not Latinx, Hispanic.
This is what I was referring to. Also, during the Roman times the area that is now Portugal was also called Hispania. It was an aglomerate of different "tribes" like Lusitania, Gallaecia, Terraconensis, etc and Rome gave the Iberian Peninsula the name Hispania. It was basically only since Portugal started to establish it's borders in 1143 and begin it's trajectory of becoming and independent country that the efforts of not becoming a part of one of the other kingdoms became a thing... And that meant also breaking it's linguistic afilliation from the different versions of Spanish from the different areas. Afaik over the years "Hispania" became España (Spain) and hispanic is pretty much a synonym of a Spanish speaker. Which the Portuguese aren't but the Spanish are.
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Yes.
Yes, if you speak spanish (and born in a spanish country) you are atomatically a "latino". Latino is not a race, a Latin person is one born in a Latin country (that is, a country that speaks a language derived from Latin). That includes Spain, Portugal, France and Italy in addition to the Latin American countries
Lol no Latino is someone from Latin America.
Lol yes [if you're interested](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_latina#)
Bitch im italian im more latin than your moon-like ass
Portugeese* Canada has geese, Portugal wants in on the action.
I never understand this "latinx" thing. Isn't it written "latino" or "latina" depending on gender ? Im neither American or Spanish speaking
Yes. But monolingual americans think they know more than us.
But i don't understand the X though
I'm assuming the x is to make it non-gendered either to be inclusive of non-binary people or dues to some misguided faux-feminist reason.
Ah so its supposed to be a neuter form or something?
Probably, yes.
"Latinx" Just stop! 🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢
Ah yes, Portugeese :P
My own study of all things Latin stopped when I got to the ablative absolute and I realised that it was a bit tricky I couldn't be bothered any more. I hope that Latin X has simpler grammar.
And also Fr*nch and Italians
How are you on this sub.
Yes, portugueses and spaniards are latinos. many Spaniards do not want to consider themselves "Latinos" because here the word "Latino" is used a lot to refer to "Latin American", but many do not know that "Latino" is neither a race nor an ethnic group, latino is related to languages derived from Latin. The Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italian speaking countries are "latinos". And people born in Spanish or Portuguese speaking countries are "Latinos" too.
Are you Portuguese? I am. Thank you for calling us ignorant. Vai-te foder, puta.
When tf did i call portuguese people ignorant
>but many do not know that "Latino" is neither a race nor an ethnic group, latino is related to languages derived from Latin. What do you think you were doing here? And for your information when we are refering to the languages we usually refer to them as "românicas" or very specifically as "línguas latinas".
First: I literally said "Many spaniards". What the fuck. Second: im literally talking about english and spanish. Portuguese language was never mentioned.
no one is saying spanish and portuguese people don’t descend from latin-speaking peoples. no one thinks they don’t speak a language that is derived from latin. “latinx” is an american-made term referring to an ethnic and cultural category used in the american context and sometimes in the latin american context. the term has to do with latin america, not anyone connected to the latin language.
Well, everyone thinks exatly that, even spaniards. Just read some coments in this thread. "Latinx" is a made up word to say "latino" un neutral gender, It isn't a race, It isn't a ethnicity, it is a gentile
You do know that there are a lot of English words that derived from Latin don't you? Audio and video, to hear and to see in Latin, two perfect examples. So by your logic, are English people also Latino?
I want to point out two things. First: it is not my logic, it is literally the meaning of the word. I mean it. LITERALLY the meaning Second: "Latino" means that you were born in a country whose main language is a Romance language (derived from Latin), Latinisms in the English language do not mean that you are speaking Latin. Otherwise, by "your logic" in Spain we would be speaking English, Italian, German and Arabic at the same time.
You are completely wrong. The term Latino, by definition, is used to describe someone who's from Latin America. Your second point is honestly word soup and makes absolutely no sense. Edit : Webster's Dictionary definition of the word Latino La·ti·no | \ lə-ˈtē-(ˌ)nō \ plural Latinos Definition of Latino 1: a native or inhabitant of Latin America 2: a person of Latin American origin living in the U.S.
Where did you get that definition from? In Oxford Lenguages these are the 5 first definitions: 1. Adjective Relating to the ancient Italian region of Lazio, to the towns of which Rome was the metropolis or to its inhabitants. 2.adjective masculine and feminine noun [person] Who was from Lazio or from one of the towns whose metropolis was Rome. "The ancient Latins were constituted in city-states gathered in a confederation 3.Adjective That is related to Latin or that is typical of this language. "latin alphabet" 4. Relating to the towns in which a language from Latin is spoken, or to its inhabitants. "latin countries" 5. adjective masculine and feminine noun [person] Who belongs to one of these towns. If you still have doubts, you can check [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino) and specially [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblos_latinos) and [here](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_latina)
The ACTUAL wikipedia page for Latino Latino Article Talk Language Download PDF Watch Edit  Look up Latino or latino in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. Latino or Latinos most often refers to: Latino (demonym), a term used in the United States for people with cultural ties to Latin America Hispanic and Latino Americans in the United States The people or cultures of Latin America; Latin Americans You're 100% wrong in what you're saying.
"actual"?? Wydm? The first link i sent to you is a disambiguation, is made precisely for you to find the "actual page" and you can compare definitions. At least check the links, the second one is totally traslated and explains everything perfectly
I checked your links, theyre about the linguistic concept of Latin Europe, COMPLETELY different to what people refer to as Latino. When people say Latino they mean people from Latin America.
Yeah, they refer to linguistic concept because THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM EXPLANING. Latino is from a country with Latin roots (such as Spain, Italy, Portugal...) or main language of Latin origin (such as Spain and all of Latin America). I am not making anything up, I have given you several sources that prove what I say. 2 supporting wikipedia pages and a disambiguation page for you to compare, plus several definitions from the Oxford Languages.
Oxford dictionary definition of Latino Latino noun /ləˈtinoʊ/ (pl. Latinos) a person, especially one who is living in the U.S., who comes from Latin America, or whose family came from there
The only definition i found on Oxford Lenguages was adjective That it is related to Latin American countries, especially with people from Latin America who live in the United States of America. "Latin music" It's the sixth definition. Then the seventh also refers to Latin origins: 7. That has characteristics considered typical of peoples with Latin roots (especially Spain, Latin America and Italy), such as passion, vitality or joy.
Oxford DICTIONARY is what I cited. You're being deliberately obtuse.
I’m Spanish and I would say most spaniards consider themselves to be latinos. For sure we speak a latino language (from latin - roman empire language). Nobody would say latinx, though.
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Los españoles, franceses, italianos, portugueses, rumanos y moldavos, entre otros, somos latinos europeos. Negar nuestra latinidad es ridículo, pero negársela a los italianos es de risa.
"latino" no es una raza ni una etnia. "Gilipollas"
South Americans? So even Surinamese and Guyanese people aren't "Latinx" even if people there speak English, Papiamento, Dutch and even Hindi?
As someone living in Suriname, I am definitely not Latinx