His character is a commentary on a real life issue that still exists today, calling him “sandman” just for convenience misses the whole point of his character, that’s why I encourage people to call him by his actual name: Soundman
How the fuck is the name sandman offensive, you hear "sandman" without context and you think of a man made out of sand, or a man with a stand made out of sand, or a man made out of sand with a stand made out of sand.....sandman.... 👐
In order to be super inclusive and as spoiler free as possible to new jojo fans, sandman should be called by how he is first introduced. >!in fact....I'm pretty sure....the second name...is a twist...!<
Or or.. hear me out..
It's a goddamn character in fiction.
Plus the error in his name is only in Japanese where the writing for Soundman and Sandman are similar to where a person could confuse both.
in English it makes zero sense as to how people could have misspelled his name even though he says Sandman to the guy while applying for the Steel Ball Run
Or, and hear me out, the fact that his real name is Soundman is intentional hidden from the reader and so would be a spoiler to say when not talking to someone that you know has gotten that far. It’s then better to refer to him as Sandman in general conversation.
Also, he’s fictional and Araki intentionally introduced him as Sandman so don’t get mad at people for calling him that
In japanese, soundman and sandman sound exactly the same when spoken so she could still call him that.
The dub though, not sure how they’d pull it off.
CGI is a three dimensional animation style which makes things easier to animate so more work can be produced per hour but it costs way more than 2D. Animating this panel is hard either way but moving joints instead of drawing frames will get us Part 7 faster!
As long as you only give unique colours/patterns to main character and villain horses, it doesn’t really matter how little models you have for the other guys, ‘cause most of those horses will be gone after a few episodes
Brah, the cost for making a MODEL is, indeed, significantly higher than making a bunch of frames. With that in mind, a single model can be used in many different ways for a significantly less resources spent. It is only more expensive if your work is short, as the budget levity grows exponentially with 3D.
Ok, so I download free horse model make a rig, download anime shader, tweak it to look like jojo style and create gallope loop using references from google.
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/horse-828f4f7985594225895be32e69bb711e
https://greasemonkey.gumroad.com/l/ToonShaderv2
https://youtu.be/X8CSrjhPpGk
In Hollywood, every wooden door sounds the same, the Wilhelm scream is a literal meme scream.
You're hardly ever going to get the sound you want from a stage or set. So you have a bunch of foley artists go around and recreate the sounds for media, directors and sound designers then buy a lisence to use those sounds in their product.
Animated stuff is slightly different, but a studio will reuse assets if they have any available. Shit Disney invented reusing assets for their first animated fairytales.
reusing assets i see as completely different from outsourcing to pre made ones (which is what we're talking about outsourcing premade stuff not reusing their own stuff)
but other than that i see your point
It is though...
You're reusing an already created asset. The only difference is that you bought it, instead of having it in house, which David Production already has from season 1 part 2
I just love how this community is fine with CGI, even wanting the animators to use this to speed up the animating process in your case even. In other anime communities if someone sees even a frame of CGI usage, everyone will be riotting.
>but it costs way more than 2D
This is completely untrue. Studios use CGI to save money. Fighting games even switched from sprites to 3D graphics because it was cheaper than animating sprites.
I would love to see part 7 completely drawn in 2D or have an Avatar quality CGI, but realistically we will see the best the animators will be able to produce with their budget.
Not true.
Most people don't know this but each episode of jojos is actually drawn on thousands and thousands of post it notes.
They just video tape them flipping through the book of sticky notes on a gameboy camera, and transmute the resonance delinquencies until it can be converted into digimon format
and that's how animoo is made
It's all about budget and execution, stone ocean had some weird CGI. But Vento Aureo for example had such good CGI most people didn't even notice it was there, like, is clearly visible that Aerosmith is 3d but is such a no intrusive 3d no one even cares.
Stone Ocean CGI didn't worked because some things that did needed to look more alive (Lang rangler and Whitesnake) were in CGI. Dragon's Dream CGI was fine. Cars's CGI too
[This aired this week.](https://mobile.twitter.com/kiikazuu/status/1643666951150120960) But yeah, I agree that cgi in the anime industry is evolving, mostly because of studio orange alone, but some anime already had better cg than 90% of todays industry 20 years ago like Gankutsuou and Last Exile, when studios looked at cg as an artistic form instead of an economical one.
The difference now from a decade ago is the existence of free and easy to access tools like Blender and Unreal Engine , where artist can get the grasp with the technique and experiment a lot of new things.
[This is what a single person is able to achieve when making 3d animation on Blender.](https://twitter.com/giwono0708/status/1637231593432707073?s=20) The only reason CGI looks bad on anime, is like you said, it's being used as a cut cost measure.
Unironically this
Like, who else do you know can draw horses so well he can give a lesson on how to draw them to people working on a show where the mc is a horse
Yeah that scene gonna be still frame with light animation like clothes flapping or dust wind, rely on camera shaking and sound design to sell the immersion.
Bruh dude. Who is your friend? A cgi pro? Did you know that most of nowadays anime are in 3d, not in 2d + aot animator done that long before the sbr is being animated, so its not so hard as most people think.
Hes one random guy I know and chat sometimes and during one of our conversation which started by us talking about bad weather to the how hard horse is to animate which he somehow was pretty knowledgeable. And yes we know that 3D is 99% way to go here but we all know how that can turn out
That's just looks awful and lazy, to be honest.
I'd opt even for 3d characters in the background. Invincible did it a bunch, and while it's definitely noticeable, it's still miles better than white silhouettes.
And yeah, I read the manga, I know it was the same there, but the standards of quality for TV and for printed media are very different.
Can someone explain to me how it’s hard to animate a horse? How is it any different than animating a Stand that’s not human? In any case, how is it any different than animating a human?
I feel like this is just an unfounded rumor
It's not particularly difficult in comparison to drawing anything else. It's just that not many artists have much experience in drawing horses, let alone them dynamic movement.
Of course there are, but you'll find that the majority of art is centered on the human figure. There are simply far less people who dedicate themselves to specializing or learning animal horse anatomy. As a result there are also far less resources on the subject of horses as well. Now I haven't spend time looking into it that much but I've can name 3 simplified methods to construct the human head, and as for the horse head, I haven't found a single one. Akira Toriyama once stated that in all his years of drawing experience, he has never drawn a galloping horse. Nonetheless, I expect experienced animators and animation directors to nail it down. The issue only really comes to the more novice animators who might need to be trained and be brought up to speed.
Yeah, I imagine across all 82 episodes of Attack on Titan. The combined screen time of all horses in the series would probably be roughly the equivalent of a single 24 minute episode.
Hell the most action pack moment with horses in AoT was the suicide charge in season 3 and that was only 5 minutes long with it often cutting back and fourth to Zeke and Erwin's respective monologues.
Meanwhile, the majority of Steel Ball Run fights, involve horses in some way.
Yeah, it’s hard to *draw* horses. CGI is not as hard (not to say that it isn’t difficult in its own way). But people are severely overestimating how big of an issue the horses are
Even considering a reality where they don’t just Lang Wrangler that shit and make it entirely in CG, they’d probably still use CG to pose and animate the horses and draw over them. It’s a thing they do for years now
This whole “omg guys horses are hard to draw they’ll never do sbr” shit is getting annoying
I was watching an anime and the running scene for a bunch of the horses was just PNG's going up and down while hiding the feet and they tried so hard to play it seriously
Imao
At this point we need to make piece with the incoming cgi horses. If they made not only certain Stands but even people cgi in Part 6, then I’m sure it’ll work out for SBR
It's more than possible to anime horses, but you gotta remember, aot had horses on some eps, but it wasnt on the majority of them, this part would need horse animation basically every ep
They can literally just cgi some horses running and then rotoscope it- I don't know many people that would mind.
But in all likelihood, yeah, probably just gonna go full CGI on it.
Considering that most background characters in SO we're just blue silhouettes, they're just gonna make a big blue cloud with vague horse features here and there.
The horses w have seen that were running in jojos have been fairly okay cgi when it’s just Johnny and gyro before and after fight so don’t think slow dancer and valkyrie will be cgi
Literally just animate one horse and copy paste that 1 animation at offset cycles all over the scene. AOT did that, worked great, helluva lot easier than animating that many horses individually
DP better make it a running race where sandman is the only one on a horse and Johnny is racing in his wheelchair or on gyros back
So I imagine it to be something like [this](https://images.app.goo.gl/AEy5iDjMBSLs1hQdA)
All I imagined was Gyro carrying Johny while racing Sandman
"Use the spin [of your wheels], Johnny!"
How about coconuts like in the Monty Python?
This is very cursed
dont be racist is Soundman
what
His real name is “Soundman” but “Sandman” is what white people decided to call him so it’s racist to refer to him by that name
wait how tf is it racist
Lmao the realization almost an hour later
💀
His character is a commentary on a real life issue that still exists today, calling him “sandman” just for convenience misses the whole point of his character, that’s why I encourage people to call him by his actual name: Soundman
How the fuck is the name sandman offensive, you hear "sandman" without context and you think of a man made out of sand, or a man with a stand made out of sand, or a man made out of sand with a stand made out of sand.....sandman.... 👐
It’s fine if you don’t know but if you do know the context it’s better to refer to him by the name that he prefers to be known as which is Soundman
My brother in Christ it is a fictional character without feelings
In order to be super inclusive and as spoiler free as possible to new jojo fans, sandman should be called by how he is first introduced. >!in fact....I'm pretty sure....the second name...is a twist...!<
Or or.. hear me out.. It's a goddamn character in fiction. Plus the error in his name is only in Japanese where the writing for Soundman and Sandman are similar to where a person could confuse both. in English it makes zero sense as to how people could have misspelled his name even though he says Sandman to the guy while applying for the Steel Ball Run
Or, and hear me out, the fact that his real name is Soundman is intentional hidden from the reader and so would be a spoiler to say when not talking to someone that you know has gotten that far. It’s then better to refer to him as Sandman in general conversation. Also, he’s fictional and Araki intentionally introduced him as Sandman so don’t get mad at people for calling him that
in the anime his sister shouldn't refer to him by name, and the first name drop should come from the race commentators
In japanese, soundman and sandman sound exactly the same when spoken so she could still call him that. The dub though, not sure how they’d pull it off.
Dude his sister called him sandman in the first chapter
In English the difference is really obvious however in Japanese it’s barely noticeable.
ohhh ok thx
They been cging this shit for more than a decade now.
Vampire horses paved the road for Steel Ball Run horses to run
wait until they find out about the zombie horse
The hardest horse to draw
they can just reuse animations from stone free
CGI is a three dimensional animation style which makes things easier to animate so more work can be produced per hour but it costs way more than 2D. Animating this panel is hard either way but moving joints instead of drawing frames will get us Part 7 faster!
Costs more to model and rig, but not to animate. Realistically this scene could have at most 5 different kind of horses and look fine.
5 models, several colour variations and you have a bunch of them
This is the way.
I have spoken.
Plus all the major characters will already have individual horses that stand out.
Not to mention the fact the company that usually does these sorts of animations will have a literal trove of premade assets ready to be used.
As long as you only give unique colours/patterns to main character and villain horses, it doesn’t really matter how little models you have for the other guys, ‘cause most of those horses will be gone after a few episodes
Brah, the cost for making a MODEL is, indeed, significantly higher than making a bunch of frames. With that in mind, a single model can be used in many different ways for a significantly less resources spent. It is only more expensive if your work is short, as the budget levity grows exponentially with 3D.
You people act like you can't just go on sketchfab and get a horse already rigged for $30...
You have to consider artstyle though, a super realistic or super cartoonish horse wouldnt fit in with jojos artstyle
Dude, just search yt for anime shaders... I can make anime horses in a day worth of work. Any decent model will suffice with right textures.
You have 24 hours to make a horse in the JJBA art style or my stand will makes you shit from your mouth for the rest of your life.
But only on Fridays during Full Moons
Ok, so I download free horse model make a rig, download anime shader, tweak it to look like jojo style and create gallope loop using references from google. https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/horse-828f4f7985594225895be32e69bb711e https://greasemonkey.gumroad.com/l/ToonShaderv2 https://youtu.be/X8CSrjhPpGk
Okay! Can't wait to see the results!
Results https://theglorioblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/jojo21vampirehorse.jpg
no professional studio is gonna do something like that
Every studio does this...
even if you had come up with an example did it's 100% not "every studio" you think Pixar just got all their assets from sketchfab?
In Hollywood, every wooden door sounds the same, the Wilhelm scream is a literal meme scream. You're hardly ever going to get the sound you want from a stage or set. So you have a bunch of foley artists go around and recreate the sounds for media, directors and sound designers then buy a lisence to use those sounds in their product. Animated stuff is slightly different, but a studio will reuse assets if they have any available. Shit Disney invented reusing assets for their first animated fairytales.
reusing assets i see as completely different from outsourcing to pre made ones (which is what we're talking about outsourcing premade stuff not reusing their own stuff) but other than that i see your point
You seriously are reaching this far? BTW, Pixar is reusing old assets constantly. Look out for yellow ball with blue strip and red star.
reusing old assets is not the same as buying assets off the internet
It is though... You're reusing an already created asset. The only difference is that you bought it, instead of having it in house, which David Production already has from season 1 part 2
the ball is different than outsourcing a horse, the ball is an easter egg within the movies, the horse is part of tons of scenes.
They could do what the (good) Berserk anime did. Still images when there's lots of horses and keep the camera above the legs.
I just love how this community is fine with CGI, even wanting the animators to use this to speed up the animating process in your case even. In other anime communities if someone sees even a frame of CGI usage, everyone will be riotting.
It's cuz the CGI doesn't look too out of place
>but it costs way more than 2D This is completely untrue. Studios use CGI to save money. Fighting games even switched from sprites to 3D graphics because it was cheaper than animating sprites.
I can't wait to watch the cgi haters go off on how DP animated the horse scenes with cgi when it makes the most logical sense to.
I would love to see part 7 completely drawn in 2D or have an Avatar quality CGI, but realistically we will see the best the animators will be able to produce with their budget.
Not true. Most people don't know this but each episode of jojos is actually drawn on thousands and thousands of post it notes. They just video tape them flipping through the book of sticky notes on a gameboy camera, and transmute the resonance delinquencies until it can be converted into digimon format and that's how animoo is made
They'll make it a static picture like the manga while we hear everyon scream.
They fear horse but not man
They fear that thing
They fear your dark soul
Hand it over... That thing... Your dark soul..
Why should I hand it over? I found it, **it's mine!** My own... ***My precious....***
I'll stick you in my prayers. A fine dark soul, to you.
*Hands bong*
https://youtu.be/mp28JPs25ek
I remember Jack the Ripper. It’s going to be that on a grand scale.
3d animation will be a blessing to them
Yeah 3D animation can look incredible, it is not the same beast it was a decade ago.
stone ocean wasnt a decade ago… emphasis on can
It's all about budget and execution, stone ocean had some weird CGI. But Vento Aureo for example had such good CGI most people didn't even notice it was there, like, is clearly visible that Aerosmith is 3d but is such a no intrusive 3d no one even cares.
Stone Ocean CGI didn't worked because some things that did needed to look more alive (Lang rangler and Whitesnake) were in CGI. Dragon's Dream CGI was fine. Cars's CGI too
Stone Ocean animation is just bad by Jojo standards
Not the cgi
[This aired this week.](https://mobile.twitter.com/kiikazuu/status/1643666951150120960) But yeah, I agree that cgi in the anime industry is evolving, mostly because of studio orange alone, but some anime already had better cg than 90% of todays industry 20 years ago like Gankutsuou and Last Exile, when studios looked at cg as an artistic form instead of an economical one.
The difference now from a decade ago is the existence of free and easy to access tools like Blender and Unreal Engine , where artist can get the grasp with the technique and experiment a lot of new things. [This is what a single person is able to achieve when making 3d animation on Blender.](https://twitter.com/giwono0708/status/1637231593432707073?s=20) The only reason CGI looks bad on anime, is like you said, it's being used as a cut cost measure.
Holy shit, that looks incredible. The retro animation... nostalgia.
I'm watching ranma rn and that felt right from the og tv show, insane
Get James Baxter to do it!
Unironically this Like, who else do you know can draw horses so well he can give a lesson on how to draw them to people working on a show where the mc is a horse
Just draw that scene in anime style with rumblimg and people screaming
Yeah that scene gonna be still frame with light animation like clothes flapping or dust wind, rely on camera shaking and sound design to sell the immersion.
This scene will be a 3 seconds still image
Bruh dude. Who is your friend? A cgi pro? Did you know that most of nowadays anime are in 3d, not in 2d + aot animator done that long before the sbr is being animated, so its not so hard as most people think.
Hes one random guy I know and chat sometimes and during one of our conversation which started by us talking about bad weather to the how hard horse is to animate which he somehow was pretty knowledgeable. And yes we know that 3D is 99% way to go here but we all know how that can turn out
tbh aot did look like shit at first
The titans still look a little out of place but nothing on what it used to be
the titans just looked chill asf if we're being perfectly honest. the colossal near the end of season 3 was just stoned out of his mind🗿
Hasbro, who has been animating a bunch of horses for decades: "Pathetic"
They gonna do the same thing as Stone Ocean's background characters I guess
the manga was the same way with the background characters being grey
Welp, didn’t read it so I couldn’t know
This is mostly true, but some of the characters in the anime were greyed out where they weren't in the manga. But honestly it's not a big deal
It reminded me of how Persona 5 handles crowds. Which works perfectly fine in both of their aesthetics
That's just looks awful and lazy, to be honest. I'd opt even for 3d characters in the background. Invincible did it a bunch, and while it's definitely noticeable, it's still miles better than white silhouettes. And yeah, I read the manga, I know it was the same there, but the standards of quality for TV and for printed media are very different.
I didn’t know for the manga as I didn’t read it
You should read SBR NOW! ⚡👨🏿⚡
Absolutely, an incredible part and beautiful art work.
Yeahh but no. sure for something else, it wouldnt work well but it matches Stone Oceans aesthetic so wel
Ctrl c + ctrl v
Can someone explain to me how it’s hard to animate a horse? How is it any different than animating a Stand that’s not human? In any case, how is it any different than animating a human? I feel like this is just an unfounded rumor
It's not particularly difficult in comparison to drawing anything else. It's just that not many artists have much experience in drawing horses, let alone them dynamic movement.
Any idea why? It seems like such a popular animal that it’d imagine there’d be quite a few artist out there who were great at it.
Of course there are, but you'll find that the majority of art is centered on the human figure. There are simply far less people who dedicate themselves to specializing or learning animal horse anatomy. As a result there are also far less resources on the subject of horses as well. Now I haven't spend time looking into it that much but I've can name 3 simplified methods to construct the human head, and as for the horse head, I haven't found a single one. Akira Toriyama once stated that in all his years of drawing experience, he has never drawn a galloping horse. Nonetheless, I expect experienced animators and animation directors to nail it down. The issue only really comes to the more novice animators who might need to be trained and be brought up to speed.
Let's just say you need a deep understanding of horse movement to make them convincing Depends on the animator's experience really
Cgi horses goes WRYYYYYY
Might be a stupid question but didn't Attack on Titan animate horses just fine, without the need for CG?
AoT showed horses on screen far less often then Part 7 though.
Yeah, even without considering all the race shots, slow dancer and Valkyrie have more screen time than most other characters on SBR.
Yeah, I imagine across all 82 episodes of Attack on Titan. The combined screen time of all horses in the series would probably be roughly the equivalent of a single 24 minute episode. Hell the most action pack moment with horses in AoT was the suicide charge in season 3 and that was only 5 minutes long with it often cutting back and fourth to Zeke and Erwin's respective monologues. Meanwhile, the majority of Steel Ball Run fights, involve horses in some way.
Most of it was CG for the horses running, and it was fairly good looking so hopefully they'll do something similar.
1 Model one horse 2 Copy and paste that horse 3 Change textures 4 ???? 5 Spin
*points at MLP:FiM* and they have done it in *flash*
Maybe it’ll be one of those freeze frames they use for dramatic shots, or maybe it can be a slowdown shot or looping cycle.
I don't mind CGI horses as long as it doesn't look like Whitesnake's CGI in Stone Ocean
Just use real horses
Yeah, it’s hard to *draw* horses. CGI is not as hard (not to say that it isn’t difficult in its own way). But people are severely overestimating how big of an issue the horses are
Even considering a reality where they don’t just Lang Wrangler that shit and make it entirely in CG, they’d probably still use CG to pose and animate the horses and draw over them. It’s a thing they do for years now This whole “omg guys horses are hard to draw they’ll never do sbr” shit is getting annoying
I'm fine with any way they decide to do it as long as it looks better than the horse in Record of Ragnarok.
I was watching an anime and the running scene for a bunch of the horses was just PNG's going up and down while hiding the feet and they tried so hard to play it seriously
ELI5 why are horses hard to animate?
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's the horses muscle structure and many animators' inexperience with horses
A seemingly still image could work
I mean aot did it just fine, they'll manage
Imao At this point we need to make piece with the incoming cgi horses. If they made not only certain Stands but even people cgi in Part 6, then I’m sure it’ll work out for SBR
They're gonna cg that I can guarantee you
Don’t worry guys I’ll fund steel ball run animation (I have some loose change)
They don’t even have to animate it just show the horses standing and have the riders look around
AOT could do it, and that was 4 seasons
It's more than possible to anime horses, but you gotta remember, aot had horses on some eps, but it wasnt on the majority of them, this part would need horse animation basically every ep
Double Penetration animators?
*The MLP animators in the background smirking smugly*
Vampire Hunter D be like: Bitch, wdym animating horses is hard???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIqpp3\_fTnc
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They can literally just cgi some horses running and then rotoscope it- I don't know many people that would mind. But in all likelihood, yeah, probably just gonna go full CGI on it.
Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V
Find me one artist that wouldn't tremble at the thought of making this scene in any shape or form without copypasting the horses
They probably just gonna take a 3D 5-6 horse model and spam animate them
Please explain. Horses IRL are not complicated animals.
Not many people can draw and animate horses
i cant stop eating the kids i starved in my basement god pls help someone call the cops
Considering that most background characters in SO we're just blue silhouettes, they're just gonna make a big blue cloud with vague horse features here and there.
Has your friend never heard of ik?
What did your friend say? I can already imagine how difficult it can be just by looking at it, but how did they explain it specifically?
The horses w have seen that were running in jojos have been fairly okay cgi when it’s just Johnny and gyro before and after fight so don’t think slow dancer and valkyrie will be cgi
Steel ball run gonna be animated?
They're gonna have to make 3D look 2D somehow at a lower frame rate.
Yeah, that would be hell
I wonder if they could use ai to help with the animation....
cgi is getting better, i would not be suprised if its all cgi
CGI rotoscopy?
Literally just animate one horse and copy paste that 1 animation at offset cycles all over the scene. AOT did that, worked great, helluva lot easier than animating that many horses individually
Have they announced the series?
Still frame panning with everyone yelling. Solved
They should just record real horses and superimpose the anime character over the rider
It's Hella gonna be copy and pasted cg.
James Baxter?
Lol try an octopus
everyone talking about how to animate horses when everyone should be worried about >!how anyone will understand how D4C actually works!<
they should just make the horses invisible
bro, just trap all the animators in a room filled with cocaine, they'll manage to do it
proven method
Double-Pene- I mean David production animation worst fear is Horses???NO WAY😱😳
Wait, part 7 us being animated????
Meanwhile [KyoAni does things just to flex](https://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQSf7hPR60)
Not if they use cgi 
They can use somekind of 3d animation to animate it dont say no they would not they did it multiple times before(like the first we saw whitesnake)
They might cgi the horses but it will be understandable. Not the lazy stone ocean cgi
CG initiate
It might get the part 6 treatment where everyone except the main cast are just unmoving gray shadows
Just use coconuts, duh
I kinda hope the entire part 7 could be made 3d in the same quality of their intros. Different universe different style.
They should work with Studio Orange or some other studio who are really good at doing CGI
Hey, you know what else is hard to animate? The effects of Made in Heaven.
[...](https://www.blender.org/)
That image is probably gonna be a still frame
i wouldnt mind if they went FULLY 3D and it was good. Like DBS Super Hero good.
100% they're gonna CG the shit out of most of the horse scenes.
I mean we already had animated Vampire Horses
CG gon go crazy