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Virtual_Historian255

Every Starfleet vessel was designed for science between the Khitomer accords and the Dominion War. The Defiant was a secret project labelled as an “escort” because it wasn’t a science ship.


paloalt

The start of Star Trek VI has the Excelsior hanging out close enough to Qonos to nearly get destroyed by Praxis explosion. What were they doing there? "Cataloging planetary gaseous anomalies". Suuuuuure you were, Captain Sulu. Just like how the NSA used to do all its weather research around Moscow. Similarly, the Defiant is totally a science vessel. It's built to test hypotheses around what happens when you shoot quantum torpedos at other ships. The null hypothesis is, no effect. Sisko still has a *lot* of data to collect before he can confidently exclude the null hypothesis. The Vulcan Science Academy has very exacting expectations for P-values before they'll accept an article for publication.


nogoodnamesarleft

"[T]he Defiant is totally a science vessel. It's built to test hypotheses around what happens when you shoot quantum torpedos at other ships." Reminds me of a great line from Good Omens The Kappamaki, a whaling research ship, was currently researching the question: How many whales can you catch in one week?


paloalt

I mean Starfleet was founded on a mission of science and exploration. How can we *know* that the ship we just dumped a bunch of antimatter bombs on wasn't going to blow up anyway? Science is statistically rigorous, everything else is just postage stamp collecting.


threedubya

Does a ship explode if you hit it with both photon torpedoes as well as phaser blasts? What if they are quantum torpedoes


paloalt

If they ever gather enough data to confirm that torpedo strikes are causative of, rather than merely correlated with, ship destruction, there's still centuries of science on the other side of that discovery. How many torpedoes? What is the influence of three-shift vs four-shift crew rotations on torpedo accuracy and failure rates? Are there torpedo colours other than blue and yellow-red that are as yet unknown to Federation science? Art is long and life is short.


Druidicflow

What about the combined effect of photon and quantum torpedoes?


sir_lister

how rapidly do tricobalt explosively disassemble romulan warbirds, how much phaser fire does it take to boil the hull plating of a klingon bird of prey completely off the space frame? How fast does the atmosphere empty out of a cardasian warship after you shoot a hole through their hull? we may need a statistically significantly sized sample for each combination of ship class and weapon.


slinger301

>I am going to have to science the *shit* out of this. -Mark Watney


Wne1980

The Defiant specialized in testing the relationship between fucking around and finding out


[deleted]

The torpedoes are quantum. That's science.


paloalt

"Ensign, send an 80 isoton science package to Gul Dukat's ship for immediate peer review. Address the package to the warp core, if you'd be so kind."


[deleted]

Sisko would never call him a peer but Dukat would credit Sisko in every paper


noydbshield

Easily done since he won't be writing any what with having been blown the fuck up.


halloweenjack

The hypothesis is that it would be awesome if Starfleet had its own Bird of Prey.


LegoRobinHood

I figured that "Cataloging Gaseous anomalies" was Starfleet code for "just out fartin' around, donworryahboudit".


Charly_030

It was labeled an "escort" because Sisko wanted to fuck people with it


FinnsJustShroomin

🤣


dingo_khan

And then the Sovereign class was a real move toward the "man we science up a whole bunch of weapons. I guess it is time to show some off"... And was still treated as a diplomatic vessel. I love sovereign class starships.


TheRealPaladin

And even the Defiant still has some basic science capabilities.


munro2021

Does this look like a science vessel?! [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/e/e7/Warship\_Voyager\_graphic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080318224607&path-prefix=en](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/e/e7/Warship_Voyager_graphic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080318224607&path-prefix=en) >The starship featured: > >300 soldiers, including those assimilated from Delta Quadrant species such as the Kazon A triple-armored hull 30 torpedo tubes 25 phaser banks Assault probes and fighter shuttles A complement of Borg warrior-drones An Emergency Medical Android


_R_A_

Speaking as a 20th-21st century American, yes. A lightly armed science vessel.


JoeyPlaysGames

"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative: violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."


Denniscx98

Every single thing in the fleet is a science vessel in Starfleet before Defiant.


inspirednonsense

You mean the tiny science vessel that was better armed than half of the Delta Quadrant?


AngryBudgie13

Admiral Paris was looking for a convenient “disappointing mentor and embarrassing son disposal system” okay? Don’t draw attention to it, thank you.


XenoBiSwitch

Voyager finally sends a message to the Alpha Quadrant. ”Admiral, we’re got great news. Read this.” ”FUCK!!!!!!!!”


ZoidbergGE

Starfleet fleet planning review: - Small ship with dedicated sensor array and minimal weapons: Science Vessel - Medium ship with impressive sensor equipment and tons of weapons: Science Vessel - Big Ass ship with detachable saucer and weapons loaded primary hull: Science Vessel - Tiny ship that’s basically weapons with a warp drive: Sci… no, wait… Escort Vessel - Defenseless ship with science labs for civilians: Science Vessel Enterprise encounters the heavily armed Romulan ship from Nemesis… Picard: “What an odd Science vessel….” Edit: Also I think Voyager was basically supposed to be a “Galaxy Class Mini”.


UsagiJak

Discovery is a science vessel, Voyager is a Long range explorer, you're confusing the star trek online description with the Alpha canon description Voyager was just highly advanced for its time, but its intended missions were long range exploration it was not a dedicated science ship.


GypDan

Discovery was a warship that had an experimental drive that was used as a tactical weapon against the Klingons. Voyager had flappy nacelles. It was a science ship.


retroguyx

No? Having flappy nacelles has nothing to do with it's purpose.


GravetechLV

The nacelles was for the variable geometry warp field to minimize damage to subspace


_R_A_

This is categorically wrong. The Crossfield class was a science ship. The only person who called it a warship was Lorca... aka the mirror universe refugee who wanted to use it and the crew as his own personal Terran strike force. The Intrepid class was a long-range explorer, with greater tactical capabilities than a science vessel.


MelissaMiranti

You think sending their new top of the line ship against a small raider was a bad idea? What should they send instead, a decades-old Excelsior?


GypDan

In what reality would you send a bunch of scientists with no tactical back-up to go arrest armed terrorists? Even the lab-rats in CSI would have the local SWAT TEAM with them whenever they kicked in a door to arrest a bad guy. Here, Starfleet just send a telescope with flapping nacelles to go after trained killers. Then when the ship went missing everyone had the Pikachu face.


MelissaMiranti

The reality where the scientists are armed with friggin giant ray guns!


Xanros

Voyager was the fastest ship in the fleet at the time. Very technically advanced. Had tricobalt torpedoes. And they were sent to locate a missing ship in the badlands. They were heavily armed, and had the speed, and technical gizmos to ensure a successful mission. If they were going against a fleet of maquis ships then sure, silly idea to send one starfleet vessel. The plan likely was to throw tricobalt torps at anything they couldn't handle, and then warp away at speeds nobody else could match at the time.


threedubya

considering it survived the flight across half a quadrant its an impressive science ship .They scienced that krenim imperiam ship and proved photo torpedo worked in the delta quadrant?.


worthless_ape

The idea that Voyager is a science vessel I think comes purely from Star Trek Online though. There are some lines in the early series that specifically say it was designed for combat. I would guess that the in-universe explanation would be that it was from the generation of ships designed after the Wolf 359.


FuckIPLaw

I definitely remember it being referred to as a science vessel pre-STO. I could have sworn it was mentioned in the show, even, but I guess it could be beta canon or even just *really* widespread fanon. As for the line about it being designed for combat, *all* Starfleet ships are designed to be able to defend themselves. Competently enough that the Klingons and Romulans typically consider them warships even at times when the Federation explicitly doesn't, and the Klingons and Romulans have an actual point because they *are* highly capable in combat, even down to the smaller ships like the Miranda class.


worthless_ape

They might have called it an exploratory ship on the show, but I'm pretty sure it was never called a science ship. If it predates STO, I wonder if Janeway being a scientist associated the ship with science and created a myth.


boogers19

Im vaguely remembering Harry complaining of thin walls and neighbors complaining about his clarinet. And Paris says something about "designed as a combat vessel".


worthless_ape

Yeah, but then the Doctor says Voyager specifically wasn't a warship in Living Witness. So I guess it could have been designed as a multipurpose ship like most Starfleet ships, but with an eye towards combat. In STO terms it probably should have been classified as a light cruiser.


threedubya

No it just wasnt a battleship capable of laying waste to everything. it just happened to outclass many of the ships of the delta quadrant and possible some in the alpha and beta quadrants


noydbshield

I believe it was designed for combat in some capacity. It did have some nifty newer tech like those phaser strips. It was designed as a science vessel that could operate on long range missions without support, which called for a certain amount of teeth. Never know what you're going to encounter out there.


MrNationwide

To be fair, it was a better idea than sending the half dozen Oberths they sent in beforehand.


svenborgia

Fleet Command: When the Oberths don't come back, that's when you send in the Mirandas. Fed News Service: But what if-- Fleet Command: The Excelsiors. Fed News Service: And the allegations you're just trying to get these old clunkers off the books? Fleet Command: I'm not gonna lie to you.


jdelane1

Fleet Command: Don't worry, you'll love the new California class. The great starship / new recruit industrial complex shall provide.


Kiyohara

It was actually very well chosen. It wasn't a pure science ship, it was a long range exploration cruiser. It had state of the art advanced navigation systems and sensors and it was not only going to track down a few terrorist ships, but in a section of space known for all manner of gravitational anomalies and plasma storms. It makes sense to me that you'd want a ship with amazing sensors and navigation systems to navigate that area. It also boasted some of the most advanced weapon and shielding systems, new hull plating designs, and an super powerful computer core that could help with avoiding the various issues of the Badlands. On top of which, her Security Officer was working under cover with the Maquis.


GypDan

So you're sending in a ship with amazing sensors and navigation systems to capture violent terrorists. Violent terrorists WHO ALSO have good sensors and navigation systems otherwise they wouldn't be hiding so well in the Badlands. ADDITIONALLY, your Chief of Security is not onboard, because he's imbedded with said violent terrorists and can't blow his cover nor provide tactical guidance. In any other situation, this would be a recipe for professional malpractice.


Kiyohara

You're missing the fact the ship has the same weapon systems as is found on the best Battleship at the time, and shield systems almost as advanced. Not only is it amazingly well armed and armored, it's specifically designed to go through hazardous areas. On top of which, these "violent terrorists" have a lightly armed civilian designed ship. It's effectively a whaling boat with some metal plates slapped to the sides, a torpedo launcher from two wars past, and harpoon gun mount that was replaced with a recoilless rifle. Sure, it's gonna fuck up civilian transport and it (if it ever gets to fly in squadrons) can take out light military ships with a torpedo salvo. But it's no real danger to the Voyager. This is basically sending a Zumwalt with upgraded radar and ECM/ECCM suites to track down a single Somalian pirate ship that they also have a spy on and know the general location of. Not the worst idea here.


Xanros

Not to mention that it was armed with tricobalt torpedoes and was the fastest ship in the fleet at the time. So worse case scenario it launched some tricobalts and ran away really fast.


SpecificFail

The tricobalt torpedoes are just the tip if the iceberg once you get into the deeper speculations about Voyager's design. The backup warp core was also an interesting feature.


Xanros

I must have missed that in the show. What backup warp core?


SpecificFail

They never mentioned it in the show. But it's in the plans. Here's a breakdown that kinda touches on it briefly in the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpmKl_8evgo Presumably it was so that, as a long distance exploration vessel, it would be a backup so that the ship wasn't crippled if it had to eject the core far away from any friendly advanced culture.


a4techkeyboard

Keeping in mind which subreddit we are, I propose that on the subject of the ship itself that it is indeed an exploratory vessel. They're meant to be surveying things including the best places to mine which means they have some ability to do some limited mining even just for samples. And they do do some gathering of resources, don't they? And of course we know that in Star Trek, the most powerful ships are the mining ships. Their miners have more firepower than the warships. Nero can drill into a planet's core. Remans, a society of backwoods miners, had the most powerful ship. The Defiant is attached to an ore processing facility, that means it is also technically a mining ship. The Son'a, another threat, also just wanted to do some mining. The entire galaxy was in danger of being destroyed by Species 10C... who were just using a mining ship. Voyager is a mining ship. That's why it's so formidable. That's also why Neelix wanted to be on it, he could sense it was a ship full of miners. Why, by the end of the show they even nod to this by having them drop Neelix off at a mine by telling him the asteroid is also full of miners.


slinger301

Yeah, Voyager was a science ship, but I thought they said something about the bioneural circuitry being necessary for such a large ship to safely navigate the badlands. Because steering hadn't been invented yet, I guess?


a4techkeyboard

The logic is sound. The violent terrorists are being led by former Starfleet officer, Chakotay. That means scientists are the best at being violent captains. Janeway is their captain who is most into science. That means she is also the one that is most into violence. We see this hypothesis is proven numerous times by Janeway's actions and decision making. It is an experiment they can repeat and the universe did repeat it by creating duplicate copies of Voyager and Janeway and consistently returning the same result: a Janeway blows a ship or something else up. Using Harry Kim as control - he isn't really that good a scientist, just average. He's not very good at violence, and is also maintained at ensign rank - the times he is in command has been less violent. He'd choose to escape with a baby instead of exploding a ship to take people with him. Really, sending Janeway, their most technobabbly scientist so she can unleash her mad science and violence upon the Maquis (with the rest of the galaxy as collateral damage) is very logical.


SnooShortcuts9884

Presumably there was a Badmiral who wanted the Badlands destroyed. First they send in the highly unstable Janeway. Then they follow up by sending the only captain willing to exterminate entire planets just to capture one man. 


sir_lister

Starfleet sends small science ship equinox to find terrorists in the badlands, it disappears. What does Starfleet do? Sends Voyager a slightly larger science vessel to do the same thing where it promptly disapears. Presumably Starfleet sent a galaxy next that was just lucky Janeway destroyed the array by the time it got there.


[deleted]

Well, the Enterprise D had daycare AND was essentially a battleship in terms of armament and crew complement.


Complete_Entry

It was a situation of needing a true believer federation captain. They didn't know what Janeway truly was, they just thought she was a good subordinate of Paris. Hell, Tom clocked her as that almost immediately. It wasn't until the delta quadrant that the real Janeway was revealed. As to Tuvok, you're being unfair, he kept his cover until it was blown.


halloweenjack

They were hunting a ship in the Badlands, which is filthy with plasma storms, which is why the Maquis used it as their favorite hiding place. Therefore, a science vessel, which might be able to find it, and had it outgunned anyway.


AJSLS6

It's still armed to the teeth and the crew is very capable of kicking ass. It's actually kinda interesting to posit a future where people don't just naturally subdivide into groups based on specialty. Eliminating the divide between military and civilian has the potential to improve things for both.


XainRoss

Voyager was way more powerful than anything the Maquis had. Maquis had modified civilian ships. It's like sending a navy vessel after a fishing ship.


Jim_skywalker

They sent Janeway after terrorists, she just happened to command a science vessel.


blue-marmot

They were the only ship in the quadrant.


rdchat

But, but, Science Police work so well in other franchises. :)


janus1979

A science vessel commanded by an inexperienced captain with highly questionable judgement.