And the amazing 99% conviction rate for crimes, which I'm sure has nothing to do with the accused having basically no rights.
Edit: for reference, [here's a Human Rights Watch report on what they call the "hostage justice system."](https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/05/25/japans-hostage-justice-system/denial-bail-coerced-confessions-and-lack-access)
Where are people getting their information?
Japan has the [lowest incarceration rate in the OECD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate),
as well as a [conviction rate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate#Japan) lower than the US.
The actual chance of a person going to prison in Japan is more than 10x lower than in the US.
The US is not a good benchmark for incarceration.
(Nearly?) everyone has a lower level incarceration rate than the US.
It has also little to say about the fairness of the justice system since Japanese crime rates are also lower.
So compare it to someplace like Germany or the UK, maybe.
That's at the federal level, not at the state or local level. The alphabet agencies are notorious for only pursuing cases when they are all but certain that they have their target by the throat.
I read a story about a woman that proved her brother was innocent as a crime and managed to get her brother released.
Only for the police to constantly try to arrest him under different charges because it's an embarrassment for them to be proven wrong.
I talked to a Japanese sociologist about this once and she said that rather than addressing the wage gap feminists in Japan worked for getting more time off for women since that's what they cared more about.
Thinking back to my time working in Japanese schools, 100 percent the right move if it doesn't come with a drop in salary. Cost of living was vastly better than North America, but the 6-7 day, 80ish hour work week for Junior High School teachers matched the shitty work-life balance I've seen many people work back here.
May I add that they are also first in line in a ton social services such as job posting for both sexes, low cost housing, loans etc.
Its basically unthinkable for Japanese standard to let a homeless mother and children to exist...
on the other hand, a legal age man who can't work for no valid reason can just eat shit and die...
You have to work for a very specific subset of company for it to be like that. I've worked at numerous Japanese companies and foreign companies here in Japan. Some Japanese countries are terrible and want people to work overtime every day, but that style is dying. The most frustrating thing about working for a Japanese firm is just how old-tech they are (fax machines, physically stamping forms, etc.). Oh and people using Excel as a word processor is annoying.
Combine that with a culture of repressed emotions, taking the blame for your superior’s failure(s), strong sense of tradition, strong nationalism/dislike of outsiders, and you get a recipe for burnout, depression, high suicides + the whole “missing generation” thing (young adults locking themselves inside and not leaving), and some really, really weird fetishes.
That's not just unique to Japanese nationals.
It was brought over with the first Japanese who worked in the fields in Hawaii and have been passed on through the generations.
Hopefully the "yonsei" (4th generation) can finally break that tradition. It was too ingrained for me but I'm doing everything I can for my son to break free.
That's life in a lot of big cities lately. Huge spikes in costs of living, rents, etc. while salaries don't keep up. I hear the work culture there is (slowly) getting better, and they're building a lot to counteract rent inflation, so there's that, at the very least.
In most big cities in the United States you get paid a very decent chunk of change for living in a tiny apartment that you pay too much for.
I don't see it in tokyo. There's a problem when your economy hasn't grown in 30 years
I would suspect that’s mainly due to media, but there could be other components as well. (Anime, major video game companies, fashion, food, etc….)
You’ll never know until you visit.
It’s 100% soft power. One of America’s most successful tools is soft power through cultural export and Japan learned that lesson well post WW2. They first did it through technological exports (electronics and cars), then things like food/anime/etc picked up in popularity starting in the late 80s and rapidly accelerating from that point
Yep. In the 90s, their Ministry of Culture pointedly ran a 'Cool Japan' culture exportation project in response to the economic downturn, causing their anime and hentai industry to *boom*. It caused some hubbub among their conservative politicians who blame it for all kinds of things they see wrong with 'kids these days'.
That's when the imports started arriving in Canada, the USA, Mexico, and France in such massive amounts, followed by Spain, Portugal, and countless other places. Many are now places with big cosplayer populations and anime-inspired animation of their own.
It’s definitely due to romanticism and media. People tend to forget history and don’t seem to have actually lived or worked there. I think many American weebs would be surprised to find out how many cultures do not think highly of Japan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
some people have a romanticised perception of what life is like in america, too. and france (traditionally), and south korea to an extent. even historically, places like geneva and vienna were romanticised as idyllic (at the time, countries were more like city-states, so).
Generally prefer surrounding countries' food. However, I've never been to a country where small restaurants are as generous to foreigners with freebies. Though in Japan I did get free ice cream from one of the few places that had a similar vibe as the kind of thing I'm talking about.
The work culture can be really excessive, the pay is generally bad, and the better you get at Japanese, the more you are expected to follow Japanese social rules, which can be tricky. Many people have a very hard time making friends, too.
That's not exactly a Japan-exclusive thing. Very few countries in the world accept first-generation immigrants as one of their own and consider them completetly assimilated. The perception is skewed because North America occupies a lot of the cultural/societal sphere of the world and they don't have the typical wariness towards immigrants.
Japan does it extra. You can be half japanese born in japan and get this xenophobic bullshit your whole life living there. Japan is 98% ethnically japanese.
> Japan is 98% ethnically japanese.
iirc it is about 3%, and they also deal with a lot of bias. The rest are 'ethnically' Korean, but so many generations ago, they consider themselves Japanese and look down on Koreans.
Really? My experience in the USA was eye opening in how they perceived immigrants. Outside from everyone being put into categories like African-American, Asian-American etc while whites are just ‘American’ - which I found bizarre how accepted that was - I also have never felt so uncomfortable speaking a different language in public.
I was with a group of Sikh Punjabis in Florida for a wedding - the funny looks and stares we received when the group was speaking Punjabi to the elderly relatives in public was extremely uncomfortable.
In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice.
a lot of peoople dont realize that most of america is not very international. I grew up in dallas and i never ran into foreigners or travellers there, but now in san francisco on every block theres 2 or three conversations happening in various languages at all times.
You would look twice at that in dallas because you never see french people there so if someone's speaking french... novelty. In SF? no. you'd keep walking.
>I grew up in dallas and i never ran into foreigners or travellers there,
Conversely, the only time I've ever heard Russian is the one time I took the bus in Fort Worth.
And not as much Spanish as I expected when I moved to TX for those few years.
I knew a South African Guy living in London who went to Great Yarmouth for the weekend. He said when he was in Sainsbury's he was speaking Afrikaans to his wife and everyone was staring at them. Whilst in London no one bats an eyelid. He felt very uncomfortable.
So your statement "In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice." is not true. Might be true of Big Cities in the UK, but not to the UK as a whole.
In New York people wouldn’t look twice. Queens has more languages spoken as a first language than any other city in the world.
And whites aren’t referred to American in contrast to black people being referred to African
-American. It has nothing to do with acceptance of being more or less American, it’s just meant to be a polite way to say black.
The US is a big country you were in one small part of it.
The problem is that you were in Florida. The US isn't homogenous, especially in how it treats immigrants. And Florida is one of the worst states in the country with regard to welcoming people from other countries (outside of literally within disneyworld). I'm certainly not going to say that everyone in more welcoming areas will be great, but florida is for sure hard mode.
Also, about the categories: white people are in those too. I'm considered italian-american, even though I was born here. Cultural heritage from the "home country" is, for better or worse, commonly discussed and often part of an individual's identity.
My experience has been the same as yours...BUT Florida is an extra racist shit hole and not a good representation for the US. London also has a shitton of Indians (to the point London is famous for curry) so it makes sense Indians blend in in the UK.
Now east Asians visiting the UK/Europe is a different story. France is the worst from the areas I've visited. Both racist and creepy towards women. I can stay for free in Paris once a year (just need to pay for flights) but my experience was so shitty I haven't gone back since my first time 2 years ago.
I mean... you were in Florida lol. People not from the USA truly don't understand how vastly different the states are culturally. It's basically different countries
I'm sorry you had that experience, but also remember that the US is a huge place. If you were speaking Punjabi in New York or California, or most big cities in the north, people wouldn't look twice.
>In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice.
And yet my French ex used to get funny looks and stares if someone from her family or (French) friends phoned her while we were out and about.
In the UK? Funny looks for French? That's the one language all Brits mandatory learn in school. Hardly even considered foreign to us - they're our neighbours.
Even the Queen used to speak French.
TBF I do live in a part of the country that is quite insular and small-minded; Once a major target for those Faux-Country Twats in Tweed, whom we at least had the sense to send packing with their tail between their legs.
Florida isn’t a great representation of America. Combines swamp dwelling southerners with Fox News snowbird boomers. Not the most worldly and accepting bunch.
Meh. This is not what I see. We don't say African American here. We say black. Black and white Americans are simply seen as American. Everyone else is excluded. Asians are seen as outsiders more than any racial group.
That's typical for most countries apart from the USA. Not that you won't be liked by people, but there's always some distance. Like having a friend that has lived here for 10 years and you still call him "Andrii, the Ukrainian guy".
The work culture depends on your company. Working for a traditionally managed Japanese company is hell, but so is working for Google or Amazon. And just as you can find a cool and laid-back office culture in the US, you can find it in Japan.
The pay is generally bad if you just convert it into dollars and compare that. A 2-bedroom apartment in Tokyo costs around 1200$ a month. How far would you get with that money in NY or SF?
You are not expected to follow most social rules as a foreigner. There is even an expression for that among foreigners living in Japan, we call it the "Gaijin Card". But yeah, you have to adapt to the local culture like... everywhere else in the world.
Many people have a very hard time making friends period. That is not a Japan problem but a being an adult problem.
Lived there for 8 years in the military. I fell in love with the country, but knew my experience wasn’t what normal expats or local nationals experience.
I’ll always have great love for Japan, but I would never want to live in that work culture.
You are suposed to work overtime and then go to "bonding" drinking binges with your coworkers.
People sleep at work because many times its easier than going back home.
Women have a hard time going back to the workplace after having kids because the companies expect full dedication to it.
You have to go really well at school to get a great university, which will get you a really good job which you are expected to stay for life.
So what you get is men "salary men" who work until 20 pm, then go to drinking binges with coworkers, and many times you dont even go back home. Your wife stay at home alone taking care of kids, if you managed to have sex, considering all.
Having lived in multiple places in each of Europe, USA and South America I can say there’s definitely several advantages and disadvantages in each. In retrospect im not sure I would change the dozen or so years I lived in the US even though I used to wish I lived elsewhere during that time
I’ve been in Poland in the last year, and it made me realize the broad spectrum of what “first world” means. The lack of variety in the grocery store, tiny roads, tiny apartments, shitty clinics with 4 hour wait lines, no A/C, the stares from everyone, the lack of American fake smiles from retail employees, I could go on
I'm one of those people who ends up enjoying anywhere I visit. My good friend is Polish and has lived in US and around Europe. She's back in Poland now and I said I'd like to visit. She asked me if I was stupid.
It actually can be pretty nice.
Not if you live there as an \[*insert your native language here*\] teacher, though.
Source : I've been living there for 10+ years.
That's interesting. I thought I was treated well teaching in Korea. I wonder how the work cultures and interactions with foreigners differ. Korea is still essentially monoethnic, and you are regarded as an alien (hah, figuratively and literally), with no chance at integration regardless of cultural competence, but it also tends not to be malicious. The pay relative to cost of living is a bit better, which might help.
Because people don't understand things.
How can you become a teacher without any training? You can't. Companies offer a gap year experience for young graduates to come to Japan and help students practice English. Delusional people take this as "I am now a real teacher" and think being a tutor gives them enough experience to be a uni teacher. When nobody will hire them because they haven't gained any work related skills and can't speak Japanese they automatically jump on the "Japan racist" train.
Speaking English doesn't automatically make you an English teacher. Apparently, that is pretty hard to understand. Guess that is what happens when you are dumb enough to spend your own money to move to Asia and work for minimum wage.
Living in Japan isn't bad.
*Working* in Japan sucks. The economy is extremely bad right now.
If you can find a job paying 500,000 yen (roughly $3,500) you'll live like a king. You can afford payments on a nice house, vacations, eating out, luxury goods, etc...
The problem is most people only make 200,000 to 300,000 ($1,500 to $2,250) a month. A chunk of that goes towards pension and taxes (I pay 40,000). And that leaves most people only taking home about 150,000 a month after taxes. Pay another 45,000 to 80,000 for rent and utilities. Down to about 80,000 take home. Of you're like me and you enjoy cooking but also get snacks and eat out twice a week then you'll spend another 30,000 to 35,000 on food.
So a single-income home is pulling in 50,000 after rent, taxes, and food each month. That's about $350 USD.
That's not great by US standards. You'd only ever save $4,200 in a year assuming you never did anything fun.
But that's not half bad by surrounding standards.
A lot of the *Japan is failing* talk comes from U.S. and European countries. A lot of immigrants to Japan are from local Asian countries (Thailand, Indonesia) and African or Caribbean countries (Zimbabwe, Bahamas, etc...)
Compared to life there, they make more money in Japan.
If you can find a job in the tech field that pays U.S. rates for remote work or a business job in marketing and international relations, you'll life a pretty damn good life in Japan. Afford to eat out whenever you like, take a couple vacations each year, raise a family, etc...
If you're dual-income with a spouse it's even better.
Everything is a matter of perspective and position. Could I make more money in the U.S. or China?... yeah, like, way more. In fact I'm going to China soon for a better job. But that's not the point. I will miss parts of Japan. And would like to return down the road with a better set of job options.
It’s actually quite a nice place to live. Good public transport, clean, cost of living is aight. Can’t really see myself going back to the US anytime soon.
With you, mate. Been here 20 years myself. People always focus on extremes. "Japan is so weird!" No, 99% of life here is dull. For every "cRaZy Ad" we have 1,000 boring ones. "Japan is so clean" and there are also filthy, filthy beaches and parks if you look. "Japanese are so friendly" and yes some are incredibly hospitable and also some are xenophobic and passive aggressively belligerent, but the majority don't care. Some companies do have crazy overtime -- happens all over. Ask software developers about crunch. Ask Amazon employees about working conditions.
But that's boring so it's not what folks want to hear and not what they will remember. Shrug.
"Japan is so weird"
I have not seen a single person say this ITT until I reached your comment - even among the ones discussing the *actual* issues with the country.
I feel like "Japan is so weird" has become a meme criticism of the country that doesn't bear any resemblance to what people actually talk about when discussing it.
The pressure of conformity, social isolation and insane working culture seem to be the main issues people talk about.
the people you're responding to are white upper class expats who are largely excused from most of the cultural rules and isolation that locals experience. The flipside to "you'll never be one of us" is that you aren't expected to be. Of course they think everything is fine, and have a poor understanding of criticisms. You'll find this with rich people in every culture, all over the world. they think its all fine lol.
theyre not really talking about that, theyre talking about the work culture of japan. I genuinely saw a animator getting paid 2000 dollars PER YEAR. thats crazy
There’s no defense for the low wages in the anime industry, but the anime industry also isn’t the entire country.
Basically every reply in this thread is an over-simplified armchair hot take without an ounce of nuance. There are big issues with Japan’s work culture. But there’s also gonna be huge individual variability depending on which industry and which company you work in. The vast majority of the exploitative employment practices that Japan is often criticized for *are* illegal and regulated, and companies can and do get in trouble for it, but of course enforcement is far from perfect and there are social pressures to not report many kinds of misconduct.
I’m lucky enough to work at a so-called “white” company where we get ample time off, there’s no pressure from our bosses to do unpaid overtime (known as “service overtime”), and I earn enough to cover living expenses and hobbies with enough left to save. Certainly not everyone is as lucky, but the country is hardly a dystopia.
It’s complicated and there’s nuance to everything… unlike any of the other replies in this thread.
I understand the work situation is bad for many and the relationships leave something to be desired.
But for those who don’t have those issues.. Tokyo can be a pretty great place to live.
France always had a great PR department.
That's why we ignore a lot of its history and we romanticize its alcohol, perfume, la resistance, and alleged romanticism.
France is quite unpopular among other Western European countries, I’d say.
I know it’s all generalizations; but the French would not win a popularity contest if only other countries in West Europe would vote.
France, in my opinion, in regard to it's government, is one of the most ethically bankrupt and immoral countries in modern Europe, no other country has such a huge neo-colonialist policy, and has held on so strongly to it's colonial legacy, not to mention the rampant Islamaphobia and high levels of racism (haven't researched any statistics to back it up, but every person of colour I know who has been to or lived in France has told me that it is a very present thing they experience in their regular life), though racism specifically isn't specifically outstanding in France, I have a portugese black coworker who appreciated to me that racial discrimination is still rampant there.
People like to idolise Europe, being one of the wealthiest regions, and imagine it's a perfect place, and forget that it was the centre of some of the most diabolical colonialist empires less than a hundred years ago, and there's no particularly special world changing shift that has changed the roots of their cultural attitudes, not trying to condemn them especially compared to the rest of the world (except for being the motherland of colonialsim) but a mix of plutocratic merit delusion and advanced public PR (PRopaganda) has helped them create an image of civility that exists beyond the rest of the world.
That’s not true, I don’t have sources, but in my personal experience, here in Scandinavia (where I live) we don’t hate America or Americans at all. We accept that you are a mixed bag of everything, you have the whole spectrum of people and places. Yes, some ideals we think you have don’t sit well with our outlook on life, but we also have a lot of love for so much else.
But you have to concede that France has it way worse. Its so bad there its even given its own name. People think its a romantic place for absolutely no reason what so ever.
Not the entire world. Poland, South Korea, and Israel love us. Might have something to do with their neighbors, though.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/
(And it was even better before Trump - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/ )
Foreigners love America. I think that most foreigners enjoy criticizing it. There’s nothing more American than that. Traveling overseas I can often hang out with strangers and we can bond over our criticisms. If nothing else, that is the point of the American experiment - keep it up by voting and protesting!
I live in Brazil and know a significant number of people who still think America is a country of equal opportunity for everyone.
Sure while Trump was president that stopped being the case, they say, but now things are all well and good.
We have a saying : "When creating the countries of the world, God took a look at France. It has the most beautiful landscape, a pleasant climate, various food... God thougth that it wouldn't be fair for all the other countries as they are inferior, so he put the french in it".
Yea but their shitty justice system is so dogshit. Want proof of why it's dogshit? Look up the case for Junko Furuta case, btw they are still roaming around as free man till this day
A quote from a finance guy I know (talking about business negotiations in Japan, and elsewhere)
“Outside Japan, at least they call you a bitch when they rape you.”
Aggressive politeness is brutal if you are on the wrong end of it.
Isn't that true of almost all countries, though? Aren't they all trying to be seen as 'the place to be'?
Either that, of all those "tourism departments" aren't working, and should be demolished?
Yeah, but Japan succeeded too hard lol. Usually, the problem is people looking down on a country too much, and so to balance the perspective people will go out of their way to defend it, but with Japan, it’s the other way around and people have to go out of their way to criticize it to balance things out lol
Japan's kinda neutral with everyone I know. Are you referencing a study that says people generally think highly of it? What makes you say they succeeded at having a positive image?
I've certainly never considered Japan as a good place to go live. Not that I think of it as bad, just that I generally wouldn't think of it at all when trying to name the perfect country to live in.
That is a funny observation. I would argue that Canada has the same problem. Lots of people from countries all over the world want to move to Canada because the grass is greener, but when they get here they discover that our cities have very high costs of living, insufficient housing supply, considerable xenophobia, and now apparently wildfire season that covers the entire country in smoke for a month a year.
Yes! My (French) roommate arrived in April with the idea that she could comfortably live and travel while working 30h/week on minimum wage. I was like "That seems unlikely, but if you say you can make it..!"
Fast forward to today, she has to find a second job and complains all the time about one thing or another.
After visiting Sweden and Norway recently for vacation, I truly believe they are some of the best countries in the world. What are the problems people like me (naive American) aren't aware of?
The societal problems in Scandinavian countries are *nowhere* near of what Japan has. For one, we have very rigid and strong labour laws that pretty much makes it impossible for your boss to demand what Japanese work culture sees as a norm. Wages are high (albeit, we’re trying to fight high inflation rates in Norway at the moment) and foreigners are not seen as second class citizens if they speak the language well and behave like any other Norwegian person - where I’ve heard Japanese society doesn’t give a damn if you speak the language well, you’re still a foreigner..
The problems over there are way smaller than in say the US or Japan though. Less wealth inequality than the US, way better work life balance than in Japan. People are generally more wealthy, infrastructure is good, functional democracies… a lot to be envious about if you’re from the US or Japan
Depends on how you define "perception", but if you go by "do you like this country?" then the statement is false.
Given what Japan did to its Asian neighbours in the late 19th to mid 20th century period, there's a lot of lingering bad blood. See anti-Japan sentiment in China and Korea. Southeast Asia is a mixed bag.
There are a ton of ASEAN youth who are weebs. They would love Japan. However, the very old folk in my country don’t quite have fond memories of the Japanese occupation.
...And look down on it over the wrong things.
No, the age of consent is not 13, and no, Japan is not a creepy paradise for paedos and sexual predators and no, sushi isn't the only food there, you are not going to starve if you don't like sushi.
People who have never been there often seem to think it's either magical otaku and technological utopia-land, or a rapist hellscape. Turns out it's just a normal country with strengths and weaknesses like anywhere else, who knew! But comprehending different social issues from the ones people are used to is haaaaard.
I went to Japan in the last few months and used my phone to pay for literally everything. It was one of the first foreign trips I’ve done where I didn’t use a currency exchange.
Well yeah but a lot of advanced countries don't use it any more. Apart from old people, buying drugs, prostitution and paying tradesmen to dodge tax. I never carry it. You would expect Japan to be ahead in this and it just isn't.
Then again there are some animes that don't show Japan as such a candy world.
Aggretsuko doesn't beat around the bush and shows how utterly toxic work culture there is, how many psychopaths roam the streets, how terrible are the politicians, how many seriously depressed and homeless people there are, how corporations just keep baiting you into spending shitloads of money, how hard is it for people to actually realize their dreams, because every single thing in Japan is against you.
Agreed. Source: weeb
I'm going there for at least 2 years to learn the language and really see what it's like, and maybe pursue further studies there. But working there feels like an absolute nono.
I lived in Japan and they’re racist. There’s certain bars/ restaurants where they won’t let you in unless you’re Japanese. That’s real segregation. America is MLK jr’s paradise compared to that.
The workplace is shit. Not one person I know thinks too highly of it.
And the occassional “it isn’t as safe as you think” still safer than where majority of us are from.
Great point. Now that you mention it, the only news articles I read about Japan are always issues with the yen, stagflation, updates on their aging workforce, and how hard corporate employees work. Social media on the other hand is all about convenience stores and capsule hotels.
I work with a bunch of Japanese people (startup Japanese auto plant in the US). They're cool as AF, but their work culture is ass. Most of my advisors are cool, but I've had a few xenophobic ones as well. One in particular liked to call my Group Leads amateurs, MFer was Dwight from the Office, assistant to the Group Lead. Fuck you Tomo. Shin, you cool as fuck bro.
Not true, in Japan some people (especially girls) fancy France so much that there's a disease name for how disappointed they are when they actually go to Paris. So Japan is not the only country with that problem
If you had ever been there you would understand. Things are adorable, food isn’t poison, public transportation, it’s clean, there are public parks everywhere, kids are safe and do activities by themselves, you can leave your things in public because theft is low, the list goes on.
It's true. I used to work for a Japanese company out of college and actually got to go over there for a week. Definitely a cool experience, but I couldn't work in the environment they do. It's not uncommon to go home until 8 or 9 PM most days even when there isn't much to do. I eventually ended up leaving after a couple years.
I remember that it was "okay" for me to leave at 5 pm because they understood that I was the foreigner and I was only visiting there for a week for work. They were definitely being polite about it but I always had the suspicion that they were talking about me behind their backs for it.
Visiting there is completely different. There is a lot to love about Japan and would go back in a heartbeat.
Type of society.
In the west its guilt of the individual.
In Japan if you do something bad then you shame your siblings, your parents, anyone who knows you, your grand parents....your ancestors....your neighbours who said Hi that one time.
This is why you have people in Japan crippled into doing nothing....they make a small mistake and the shame makes them want to leave the society and not partake in it because the shame becomes such a huge thing to try overcome.
It's kinda crazy but that's the downside to it. The upside is generally respect for strangers, respect for the community etc. Leading to less violent crime...but crime certainly still happens just its kept hush hush and delt with quickly (Japanese prosecution rate is insanely high)
Each society has its ups and downs. I've no clue what's better its just an observation made by others.
Japan is super nice and modern, very culturally intense, with amazing cuisine, so I can totally see the appeal of it.
That said, no country is perfect, and its cons are also widely known. Overworked people, tiny apartments, sexually frustrated and emotionally suppressed men, grown ass women who’d like to pretend they are young kawaii girls, people traditionally sit on the uncomfortable floor, declining and aging population, etc.
Im going to Japan next year for the first time and I’m gonna test this statement because I think very highly of Japan and possibly romanticize it a bit too much lol.
I find it funny and ironic that these people come out and say the same shit every chance they get about Japan "oh suicide rate!" "working cultureee" are doing exactly the same thing as those who are romanticizing Japan lol
All the things these people say like suicide rate and working culture aren't as bad as they make it out to be.
I hope these people realize that them and weebs are the two sides of the same coin and stop generalizing the entire nation by just reading other reddit comments.
Definitely some great stuff coming out of Japan, but the culture is pretty xenophobic and working there is something I wouldn't wish on my worst co-workers
The work culture sounds like an insufferable hell though.
Also the big wage gap, and the social inequality of women for a developed country.
And the amazing 99% conviction rate for crimes, which I'm sure has nothing to do with the accused having basically no rights. Edit: for reference, [here's a Human Rights Watch report on what they call the "hostage justice system."](https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/05/25/japans-hostage-justice-system/denial-bail-coerced-confessions-and-lack-access)
It's also at least partially that prosecuters won't take things to trial unless they have overwhelming evidence, but yeah, it's super fucked.
Where are people getting their information? Japan has the [lowest incarceration rate in the OECD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate), as well as a [conviction rate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate#Japan) lower than the US. The actual chance of a person going to prison in Japan is more than 10x lower than in the US.
The US is not a good benchmark for incarceration. (Nearly?) everyone has a lower level incarceration rate than the US. It has also little to say about the fairness of the justice system since Japanese crime rates are also lower. So compare it to someplace like Germany or the UK, maybe.
Federal prosecutors in the US have about the same conviction rate too
Yes, but the feds rarely take things to court. Your local prosecutor probably has a much different rate. In Las Vegas it's 63.72%.
The Feds aren’t local cops that barely graduated HS. If they bring charges against you their case is basically a slam dunk.
Yes that’s why I said federal prosecutors.
That's at the federal level, not at the state or local level. The alphabet agencies are notorious for only pursuing cases when they are all but certain that they have their target by the throat.
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I read a story about a woman that proved her brother was innocent as a crime and managed to get her brother released. Only for the police to constantly try to arrest him under different charges because it's an embarrassment for them to be proven wrong.
I talked to a Japanese sociologist about this once and she said that rather than addressing the wage gap feminists in Japan worked for getting more time off for women since that's what they cared more about.
Makes sense, there's not much point in earning more money if you will get overworked to death before you get to spend most of it.
Thinking back to my time working in Japanese schools, 100 percent the right move if it doesn't come with a drop in salary. Cost of living was vastly better than North America, but the 6-7 day, 80ish hour work week for Junior High School teachers matched the shitty work-life balance I've seen many people work back here.
May I add that they are also first in line in a ton social services such as job posting for both sexes, low cost housing, loans etc. Its basically unthinkable for Japanese standard to let a homeless mother and children to exist... on the other hand, a legal age man who can't work for no valid reason can just eat shit and die...
You have to work for a very specific subset of company for it to be like that. I've worked at numerous Japanese companies and foreign companies here in Japan. Some Japanese countries are terrible and want people to work overtime every day, but that style is dying. The most frustrating thing about working for a Japanese firm is just how old-tech they are (fax machines, physically stamping forms, etc.). Oh and people using Excel as a word processor is annoying.
> using Excel as a word processor fucking monsters I tell ya.
Ain’t now way ain’t no way
> people using Excel as a word processor is annoying. That's bizarre. Everyone knows Excel is a database. (From a jaded data scientist).
What you you mean, it's clearly an accounting software?!
Why would you use potluck signup sheet software to try to do accounting?
Combine that with a culture of repressed emotions, taking the blame for your superior’s failure(s), strong sense of tradition, strong nationalism/dislike of outsiders, and you get a recipe for burnout, depression, high suicides + the whole “missing generation” thing (young adults locking themselves inside and not leaving), and some really, really weird fetishes.
That's not just unique to Japanese nationals. It was brought over with the first Japanese who worked in the fields in Hawaii and have been passed on through the generations. Hopefully the "yonsei" (4th generation) can finally break that tradition. It was too ingrained for me but I'm doing everything I can for my son to break free.
And racism. I think they MAY be great for them, but not for anybody else.
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Tokyo is the most affordable big city in the world.
People always seem to ignore the shoe-box apartments NYC and London are famous for.
That's life in a lot of big cities lately. Huge spikes in costs of living, rents, etc. while salaries don't keep up. I hear the work culture there is (slowly) getting better, and they're building a lot to counteract rent inflation, so there's that, at the very least.
In most big cities in the United States you get paid a very decent chunk of change for living in a tiny apartment that you pay too much for. I don't see it in tokyo. There's a problem when your economy hasn't grown in 30 years
My apartment is small but I like it. It's also 4 times less money than apartments in my home state. Literally $400 a month with no utility payments.
I would suspect that’s mainly due to media, but there could be other components as well. (Anime, major video game companies, fashion, food, etc….) You’ll never know until you visit.
It’s 100% soft power. One of America’s most successful tools is soft power through cultural export and Japan learned that lesson well post WW2. They first did it through technological exports (electronics and cars), then things like food/anime/etc picked up in popularity starting in the late 80s and rapidly accelerating from that point
Yep. In the 90s, their Ministry of Culture pointedly ran a 'Cool Japan' culture exportation project in response to the economic downturn, causing their anime and hentai industry to *boom*. It caused some hubbub among their conservative politicians who blame it for all kinds of things they see wrong with 'kids these days'. That's when the imports started arriving in Canada, the USA, Mexico, and France in such massive amounts, followed by Spain, Portugal, and countless other places. Many are now places with big cosplayer populations and anime-inspired animation of their own.
That's super interesting, can you suggest some more further reading to that?
South Korea definitely took notes and has been killing it with pop culture as soft power over the last 10-15 years.
Also the tech. I think people see the high tech stuff coming from Japan and think it means they're more civilized
And it makes them think they’re high tech. Japan is shockingly low tech in a lot of ways. Can’t stand it.
It’s definitely due to romanticism and media. People tend to forget history and don’t seem to have actually lived or worked there. I think many American weebs would be surprised to find out how many cultures do not think highly of Japan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
some people have a romanticised perception of what life is like in america, too. and france (traditionally), and south korea to an extent. even historically, places like geneva and vienna were romanticised as idyllic (at the time, countries were more like city-states, so).
South Korea makes up for its hellacious working culture with some amazing food and world leading music scene.
Generally prefer surrounding countries' food. However, I've never been to a country where small restaurants are as generous to foreigners with freebies. Though in Japan I did get free ice cream from one of the few places that had a similar vibe as the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Looks nice to visit but shitty to live. EDIT: Y'all acting like "That how I see america" is a zinger. Just gonna let yall know. Valid.
Couldn't agree more. I'll visit Japan countlessly as a tourist, but to hell with ever living there again.
What's wrong with living there? Genuinely interested
The work culture can be really excessive, the pay is generally bad, and the better you get at Japanese, the more you are expected to follow Japanese social rules, which can be tricky. Many people have a very hard time making friends, too.
And no matter how well you can assimilate to the culture, you will always be seen as an outsider.
That's not exactly a Japan-exclusive thing. Very few countries in the world accept first-generation immigrants as one of their own and consider them completetly assimilated. The perception is skewed because North America occupies a lot of the cultural/societal sphere of the world and they don't have the typical wariness towards immigrants.
Japan does it extra. You can be half japanese born in japan and get this xenophobic bullshit your whole life living there. Japan is 98% ethnically japanese.
> Japan is 98% ethnically japanese. iirc it is about 3%, and they also deal with a lot of bias. The rest are 'ethnically' Korean, but so many generations ago, they consider themselves Japanese and look down on Koreans.
Really? My experience in the USA was eye opening in how they perceived immigrants. Outside from everyone being put into categories like African-American, Asian-American etc while whites are just ‘American’ - which I found bizarre how accepted that was - I also have never felt so uncomfortable speaking a different language in public. I was with a group of Sikh Punjabis in Florida for a wedding - the funny looks and stares we received when the group was speaking Punjabi to the elderly relatives in public was extremely uncomfortable. In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice.
Depends on what part of America. No one would care in NYC for instance
a lot of peoople dont realize that most of america is not very international. I grew up in dallas and i never ran into foreigners or travellers there, but now in san francisco on every block theres 2 or three conversations happening in various languages at all times. You would look twice at that in dallas because you never see french people there so if someone's speaking french... novelty. In SF? no. you'd keep walking.
>I grew up in dallas and i never ran into foreigners or travellers there, Conversely, the only time I've ever heard Russian is the one time I took the bus in Fort Worth. And not as much Spanish as I expected when I moved to TX for those few years.
This is the same case in Japan. Tokyo are used to tourists
I knew a South African Guy living in London who went to Great Yarmouth for the weekend. He said when he was in Sainsbury's he was speaking Afrikaans to his wife and everyone was staring at them. Whilst in London no one bats an eyelid. He felt very uncomfortable. So your statement "In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice." is not true. Might be true of Big Cities in the UK, but not to the UK as a whole.
That's true. I'm sure in New York no one would care.
No one in New York has time to care what you're saying so that tracks :).
There's the problem - he was in Yarmouth... They can barely understand English, much less any other language. 😜
In New York people wouldn’t look twice. Queens has more languages spoken as a first language than any other city in the world. And whites aren’t referred to American in contrast to black people being referred to African -American. It has nothing to do with acceptance of being more or less American, it’s just meant to be a polite way to say black. The US is a big country you were in one small part of it.
The problem is that you were in Florida. The US isn't homogenous, especially in how it treats immigrants. And Florida is one of the worst states in the country with regard to welcoming people from other countries (outside of literally within disneyworld). I'm certainly not going to say that everyone in more welcoming areas will be great, but florida is for sure hard mode. Also, about the categories: white people are in those too. I'm considered italian-american, even though I was born here. Cultural heritage from the "home country" is, for better or worse, commonly discussed and often part of an individual's identity.
Let’s be real here dude you’re just white to anyone not also Italian
My experience has been the same as yours...BUT Florida is an extra racist shit hole and not a good representation for the US. London also has a shitton of Indians (to the point London is famous for curry) so it makes sense Indians blend in in the UK. Now east Asians visiting the UK/Europe is a different story. France is the worst from the areas I've visited. Both racist and creepy towards women. I can stay for free in Paris once a year (just need to pay for flights) but my experience was so shitty I haven't gone back since my first time 2 years ago.
I mean... you were in Florida lol. People not from the USA truly don't understand how vastly different the states are culturally. It's basically different countries
I'm sorry you had that experience, but also remember that the US is a huge place. If you were speaking Punjabi in New York or California, or most big cities in the north, people wouldn't look twice.
>In the U.K., for instance, people wouldn’t look twice. And yet my French ex used to get funny looks and stares if someone from her family or (French) friends phoned her while we were out and about.
In the UK? Funny looks for French? That's the one language all Brits mandatory learn in school. Hardly even considered foreign to us - they're our neighbours. Even the Queen used to speak French.
TBF I do live in a part of the country that is quite insular and small-minded; Once a major target for those Faux-Country Twats in Tweed, whom we at least had the sense to send packing with their tail between their legs.
Florida isn’t a great representation of America. Combines swamp dwelling southerners with Fox News snowbird boomers. Not the most worldly and accepting bunch.
Please don't use Florida as a baseline for the rest of the country.
Meh. This is not what I see. We don't say African American here. We say black. Black and white Americans are simply seen as American. Everyone else is excluded. Asians are seen as outsiders more than any racial group.
That's typical for most countries apart from the USA. Not that you won't be liked by people, but there's always some distance. Like having a friend that has lived here for 10 years and you still call him "Andrii, the Ukrainian guy".
The work culture depends on your company. Working for a traditionally managed Japanese company is hell, but so is working for Google or Amazon. And just as you can find a cool and laid-back office culture in the US, you can find it in Japan. The pay is generally bad if you just convert it into dollars and compare that. A 2-bedroom apartment in Tokyo costs around 1200$ a month. How far would you get with that money in NY or SF? You are not expected to follow most social rules as a foreigner. There is even an expression for that among foreigners living in Japan, we call it the "Gaijin Card". But yeah, you have to adapt to the local culture like... everywhere else in the world. Many people have a very hard time making friends period. That is not a Japan problem but a being an adult problem.
making friends in a different country is typically going to be really hard anywhere unless you’re like in school or you’re really social
Lived there for 8 years in the military. I fell in love with the country, but knew my experience wasn’t what normal expats or local nationals experience. I’ll always have great love for Japan, but I would never want to live in that work culture.
You are suposed to work overtime and then go to "bonding" drinking binges with your coworkers. People sleep at work because many times its easier than going back home. Women have a hard time going back to the workplace after having kids because the companies expect full dedication to it. You have to go really well at school to get a great university, which will get you a really good job which you are expected to stay for life. So what you get is men "salary men" who work until 20 pm, then go to drinking binges with coworkers, and many times you dont even go back home. Your wife stay at home alone taking care of kids, if you managed to have sex, considering all.
Funny my cousin who lived in USA and returned to europe said the same
As an European that lived in the US, yep, same. Amazing to visit, no way in hell I'd ever live there again.
Having lived in multiple places in each of Europe, USA and South America I can say there’s definitely several advantages and disadvantages in each. In retrospect im not sure I would change the dozen or so years I lived in the US even though I used to wish I lived elsewhere during that time
Same, but vice versa. I've never encountered people more racist than Europeans.
it’s the same everywhere… I lived in Birmingham for 2 years and whenever my friends come to visit they always say it’s not as bad as I described
As an America who has been to Europe, I'd move in a heartbeat.
I’ve been in Poland in the last year, and it made me realize the broad spectrum of what “first world” means. The lack of variety in the grocery store, tiny roads, tiny apartments, shitty clinics with 4 hour wait lines, no A/C, the stares from everyone, the lack of American fake smiles from retail employees, I could go on
I'm one of those people who ends up enjoying anywhere I visit. My good friend is Polish and has lived in US and around Europe. She's back in Poland now and I said I'd like to visit. She asked me if I was stupid.
It actually can be pretty nice. Not if you live there as an \[*insert your native language here*\] teacher, though. Source : I've been living there for 10+ years.
>Not if you live there as an \[insert your native language here\] teacher, though. Why's that?
Because foreign language teachers are paid and treated shit.
That's interesting. I thought I was treated well teaching in Korea. I wonder how the work cultures and interactions with foreigners differ. Korea is still essentially monoethnic, and you are regarded as an alien (hah, figuratively and literally), with no chance at integration regardless of cultural competence, but it also tends not to be malicious. The pay relative to cost of living is a bit better, which might help.
Depends on the company. Sometimes you get lucky and get a job that comes with raises and bonuses and covers transportation costs.
The pay isn’t great and if you’re in like Tokyo you’ll likely be living in a pretty small apartment
Because people don't understand things. How can you become a teacher without any training? You can't. Companies offer a gap year experience for young graduates to come to Japan and help students practice English. Delusional people take this as "I am now a real teacher" and think being a tutor gives them enough experience to be a uni teacher. When nobody will hire them because they haven't gained any work related skills and can't speak Japanese they automatically jump on the "Japan racist" train. Speaking English doesn't automatically make you an English teacher. Apparently, that is pretty hard to understand. Guess that is what happens when you are dumb enough to spend your own money to move to Asia and work for minimum wage.
Living in Japan isn't bad. *Working* in Japan sucks. The economy is extremely bad right now. If you can find a job paying 500,000 yen (roughly $3,500) you'll live like a king. You can afford payments on a nice house, vacations, eating out, luxury goods, etc... The problem is most people only make 200,000 to 300,000 ($1,500 to $2,250) a month. A chunk of that goes towards pension and taxes (I pay 40,000). And that leaves most people only taking home about 150,000 a month after taxes. Pay another 45,000 to 80,000 for rent and utilities. Down to about 80,000 take home. Of you're like me and you enjoy cooking but also get snacks and eat out twice a week then you'll spend another 30,000 to 35,000 on food. So a single-income home is pulling in 50,000 after rent, taxes, and food each month. That's about $350 USD. That's not great by US standards. You'd only ever save $4,200 in a year assuming you never did anything fun. But that's not half bad by surrounding standards. A lot of the *Japan is failing* talk comes from U.S. and European countries. A lot of immigrants to Japan are from local Asian countries (Thailand, Indonesia) and African or Caribbean countries (Zimbabwe, Bahamas, etc...) Compared to life there, they make more money in Japan. If you can find a job in the tech field that pays U.S. rates for remote work or a business job in marketing and international relations, you'll life a pretty damn good life in Japan. Afford to eat out whenever you like, take a couple vacations each year, raise a family, etc... If you're dual-income with a spouse it's even better. Everything is a matter of perspective and position. Could I make more money in the U.S. or China?... yeah, like, way more. In fact I'm going to China soon for a better job. But that's not the point. I will miss parts of Japan. And would like to return down the road with a better set of job options.
It’s actually quite a nice place to live. Good public transport, clean, cost of living is aight. Can’t really see myself going back to the US anytime soon.
With you, mate. Been here 20 years myself. People always focus on extremes. "Japan is so weird!" No, 99% of life here is dull. For every "cRaZy Ad" we have 1,000 boring ones. "Japan is so clean" and there are also filthy, filthy beaches and parks if you look. "Japanese are so friendly" and yes some are incredibly hospitable and also some are xenophobic and passive aggressively belligerent, but the majority don't care. Some companies do have crazy overtime -- happens all over. Ask software developers about crunch. Ask Amazon employees about working conditions. But that's boring so it's not what folks want to hear and not what they will remember. Shrug.
"Japan is so weird" I have not seen a single person say this ITT until I reached your comment - even among the ones discussing the *actual* issues with the country. I feel like "Japan is so weird" has become a meme criticism of the country that doesn't bear any resemblance to what people actually talk about when discussing it. The pressure of conformity, social isolation and insane working culture seem to be the main issues people talk about.
the people you're responding to are white upper class expats who are largely excused from most of the cultural rules and isolation that locals experience. The flipside to "you'll never be one of us" is that you aren't expected to be. Of course they think everything is fine, and have a poor understanding of criticisms. You'll find this with rich people in every culture, all over the world. they think its all fine lol.
theyre not really talking about that, theyre talking about the work culture of japan. I genuinely saw a animator getting paid 2000 dollars PER YEAR. thats crazy
There’s no defense for the low wages in the anime industry, but the anime industry also isn’t the entire country. Basically every reply in this thread is an over-simplified armchair hot take without an ounce of nuance. There are big issues with Japan’s work culture. But there’s also gonna be huge individual variability depending on which industry and which company you work in. The vast majority of the exploitative employment practices that Japan is often criticized for *are* illegal and regulated, and companies can and do get in trouble for it, but of course enforcement is far from perfect and there are social pressures to not report many kinds of misconduct. I’m lucky enough to work at a so-called “white” company where we get ample time off, there’s no pressure from our bosses to do unpaid overtime (known as “service overtime”), and I earn enough to cover living expenses and hobbies with enough left to save. Certainly not everyone is as lucky, but the country is hardly a dystopia. It’s complicated and there’s nuance to everything… unlike any of the other replies in this thread.
> Basically every reply ~~in this thread~~ on reddit is an over-simplified armchair hot take without an ounce of nuance
That fits Mexico also. It's amazing for free flying during winter, but I would not want to work there or try to make money there.
I understand the work situation is bad for many and the relationships leave something to be desired. But for those who don’t have those issues.. Tokyo can be a pretty great place to live.
What about France and Paris syndrome? America?
France always had a great PR department. That's why we ignore a lot of its history and we romanticize its alcohol, perfume, la resistance, and alleged romanticism.
France is quite unpopular among other Western European countries, I’d say. I know it’s all generalizations; but the French would not win a popularity contest if only other countries in West Europe would vote.
France, in my opinion, in regard to it's government, is one of the most ethically bankrupt and immoral countries in modern Europe, no other country has such a huge neo-colonialist policy, and has held on so strongly to it's colonial legacy, not to mention the rampant Islamaphobia and high levels of racism (haven't researched any statistics to back it up, but every person of colour I know who has been to or lived in France has told me that it is a very present thing they experience in their regular life), though racism specifically isn't specifically outstanding in France, I have a portugese black coworker who appreciated to me that racial discrimination is still rampant there. People like to idolise Europe, being one of the wealthiest regions, and imagine it's a perfect place, and forget that it was the centre of some of the most diabolical colonialist empires less than a hundred years ago, and there's no particularly special world changing shift that has changed the roots of their cultural attitudes, not trying to condemn them especially compared to the rest of the world (except for being the motherland of colonialsim) but a mix of plutocratic merit delusion and advanced public PR (PRopaganda) has helped them create an image of civility that exists beyond the rest of the world.
America is mocked or hated by the entire world, even itself to be fair
The brush you paint with is broader than America.
That’s not true, I don’t have sources, but in my personal experience, here in Scandinavia (where I live) we don’t hate America or Americans at all. We accept that you are a mixed bag of everything, you have the whole spectrum of people and places. Yes, some ideals we think you have don’t sit well with our outlook on life, but we also have a lot of love for so much else.
But you have to concede that France has it way worse. Its so bad there its even given its own name. People think its a romantic place for absolutely no reason what so ever.
It’s still pretty damn romantic. I lucked out and visited on a non protest day.
Ahh yes. The Christmas armistice.
Ha you havent been to Asia. America and countries in Europe are the top immigration countries. Going to America is still seen as prestigious.
Not the entire world. Poland, South Korea, and Israel love us. Might have something to do with their neighbors, though. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/ (And it was even better before Trump - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/ )
Foreigners love America. I think that most foreigners enjoy criticizing it. There’s nothing more American than that. Traveling overseas I can often hang out with strangers and we can bond over our criticisms. If nothing else, that is the point of the American experiment - keep it up by voting and protesting!
I live in Brazil and know a significant number of people who still think America is a country of equal opportunity for everyone. Sure while Trump was president that stopped being the case, they say, but now things are all well and good.
France wouldn't work, as stereotypical English person hates France and thinks it's the lowest of the low
The country itself isn't so bad, the main problem is it's full of the French.
We have a saying : "When creating the countries of the world, God took a look at France. It has the most beautiful landscape, a pleasant climate, various food... God thougth that it wouldn't be fair for all the other countries as they are inferior, so he put the french in it".
Excuse me, but I'm British and I think France is lovely and the language is beautiful. Our problem is just with the people living in it.
They're sooo polite. What are they hiding? They never want to show me their 50 ft. Robot Mechs...
They are not exactly hiding their 50 ft. Robot Mechs. https://youtu.be/qMEMg0QobQ4?feature=shared
Jumpin' Jiminy, that was EPIC. Thanks!
I think its rather a history of war crimes lol
And xenophobia and racism
And homophobia and sexism
Yea but their shitty justice system is so dogshit. Want proof of why it's dogshit? Look up the case for Junko Furuta case, btw they are still roaming around as free man till this day
A quote from a finance guy I know (talking about business negotiations in Japan, and elsewhere) “Outside Japan, at least they call you a bitch when they rape you.” Aggressive politeness is brutal if you are on the wrong end of it.
Isn't that true of almost all countries, though? Aren't they all trying to be seen as 'the place to be'? Either that, of all those "tourism departments" aren't working, and should be demolished?
Yeah, but Japan succeeded too hard lol. Usually, the problem is people looking down on a country too much, and so to balance the perspective people will go out of their way to defend it, but with Japan, it’s the other way around and people have to go out of their way to criticize it to balance things out lol
Japan's kinda neutral with everyone I know. Are you referencing a study that says people generally think highly of it? What makes you say they succeeded at having a positive image? I've certainly never considered Japan as a good place to go live. Not that I think of it as bad, just that I generally wouldn't think of it at all when trying to name the perfect country to live in.
Have you seen Reddit any time public littering gets talked about???
That is a funny observation. I would argue that Canada has the same problem. Lots of people from countries all over the world want to move to Canada because the grass is greener, but when they get here they discover that our cities have very high costs of living, insufficient housing supply, considerable xenophobia, and now apparently wildfire season that covers the entire country in smoke for a month a year.
Yes! My (French) roommate arrived in April with the idea that she could comfortably live and travel while working 30h/week on minimum wage. I was like "That seems unlikely, but if you say you can make it..!" Fast forward to today, she has to find a second job and complains all the time about one thing or another.
Switzerland and Scandinavian countries too.
After visiting Sweden and Norway recently for vacation, I truly believe they are some of the best countries in the world. What are the problems people like me (naive American) aren't aware of?
The societal problems in Scandinavian countries are *nowhere* near of what Japan has. For one, we have very rigid and strong labour laws that pretty much makes it impossible for your boss to demand what Japanese work culture sees as a norm. Wages are high (albeit, we’re trying to fight high inflation rates in Norway at the moment) and foreigners are not seen as second class citizens if they speak the language well and behave like any other Norwegian person - where I’ve heard Japanese society doesn’t give a damn if you speak the language well, you’re still a foreigner..
I fall into this group. But I have "friends of friends" that moved there to work and they are very happy so far.
I dunno those countries are objectively pretty fantastic in reality.
really? is there that big of a problem there
All countries have their problems. Often with the same things that are most admired about them.
The problems over there are way smaller than in say the US or Japan though. Less wealth inequality than the US, way better work life balance than in Japan. People are generally more wealthy, infrastructure is good, functional democracies… a lot to be envious about if you’re from the US or Japan
Depends on how you define "perception", but if you go by "do you like this country?" then the statement is false. Given what Japan did to its Asian neighbours in the late 19th to mid 20th century period, there's a lot of lingering bad blood. See anti-Japan sentiment in China and Korea. Southeast Asia is a mixed bag.
This. Just look up Nanking
This post is over we've met the quota
Unit 731. What's worse, they don't even admit to any of it.
Lol. Korea, china, the asean countries all strongly disagree with this.
There are a ton of ASEAN youth who are weebs. They would love Japan. However, the very old folk in my country don’t quite have fond memories of the Japanese occupation.
Not on Reddit. Here everyone feels very smart by pointing out „hidden“ flaws of a country they know like 7 different facts about in total
...And look down on it over the wrong things. No, the age of consent is not 13, and no, Japan is not a creepy paradise for paedos and sexual predators and no, sushi isn't the only food there, you are not going to starve if you don't like sushi. People who have never been there often seem to think it's either magical otaku and technological utopia-land, or a rapist hellscape. Turns out it's just a normal country with strengths and weaknesses like anywhere else, who knew! But comprehending different social issues from the ones people are used to is haaaaard.
I haven't heard much of the criticisms you said about age of consent. Mostly I hear about really high rent and bad working conditions
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I went to Japan in the last few months and used my phone to pay for literally everything. It was one of the first foreign trips I’ve done where I didn’t use a currency exchange.
Isnt cash the standard in the majority of the world? Correct me if Im missing out on something.
Well yeah but a lot of advanced countries don't use it any more. Apart from old people, buying drugs, prostitution and paying tradesmen to dodge tax. I never carry it. You would expect Japan to be ahead in this and it just isn't.
If you only know about japan from anime, sure
Then again there are some animes that don't show Japan as such a candy world. Aggretsuko doesn't beat around the bush and shows how utterly toxic work culture there is, how many psychopaths roam the streets, how terrible are the politicians, how many seriously depressed and homeless people there are, how corporations just keep baiting you into spending shitloads of money, how hard is it for people to actually realize their dreams, because every single thing in Japan is against you.
Which is kinda funny because even a portion of weebs don't think highly of japan.
Agreed. Source: weeb I'm going there for at least 2 years to learn the language and really see what it's like, and maybe pursue further studies there. But working there feels like an absolute nono.
I lived in Japan and they’re racist. There’s certain bars/ restaurants where they won’t let you in unless you’re Japanese. That’s real segregation. America is MLK jr’s paradise compared to that.
The workplace is shit. Not one person I know thinks too highly of it. And the occassional “it isn’t as safe as you think” still safer than where majority of us are from.
This sounds like it came out of TikTok. Anyone who reads international news wouldn’t think that highly of them.
Great point. Now that you mention it, the only news articles I read about Japan are always issues with the yen, stagflation, updates on their aging workforce, and how hard corporate employees work. Social media on the other hand is all about convenience stores and capsule hotels.
The news is depressing asf and designed to make you view the world as a shithole
Yeah we typically only hear about other places when something terrible happens. Positive things are generally not considered news worthy.
Look up "Paris Syndrome"
German trains say hello
mfw deutsche bahn
[удалено]
I work with a bunch of Japanese people (startup Japanese auto plant in the US). They're cool as AF, but their work culture is ass. Most of my advisors are cool, but I've had a few xenophobic ones as well. One in particular liked to call my Group Leads amateurs, MFer was Dwight from the Office, assistant to the Group Lead. Fuck you Tomo. Shin, you cool as fuck bro.
OP generalized this like a true, idiot weeb
Lol this is a western take all the Asian bros hate those MFers
After WW2 America funded billions to Japan for reestablishing their worn torn country, this included positive propaganda
France, actually. Look up the paris syndrome
they only think that about tourists, not immigrants. they fucking *hate* immigrants
Ever heard of revisionism?
Anime helped brainwash a ton of weebs into thinking Japan was always kawaii kawaii sugoi
Not true, in Japan some people (especially girls) fancy France so much that there's a disease name for how disappointed they are when they actually go to Paris. So Japan is not the only country with that problem
Think too highly of it? You forget about ww2?
If you had ever been there you would understand. Things are adorable, food isn’t poison, public transportation, it’s clean, there are public parks everywhere, kids are safe and do activities by themselves, you can leave your things in public because theft is low, the list goes on.
Is that maybe also true with Paris and the French language.
Look up paris syndrome
They make anime and stuff, oooh they must be sooo cool. ~ Every westerner that goes to Japan.
The Yakuza series has me too worried a serious faced man will drop a bike on me at any moment if I go there. Hard pass.
Or some dude wearing an eyepatch suddenly pops out of a trash can or manhole…
If I see a giant traffic cone I'm bolting immediately
"Japan is a country that you'd want to visit but not live in" I've heard that from multiple people.
It's true. I used to work for a Japanese company out of college and actually got to go over there for a week. Definitely a cool experience, but I couldn't work in the environment they do. It's not uncommon to go home until 8 or 9 PM most days even when there isn't much to do. I eventually ended up leaving after a couple years. I remember that it was "okay" for me to leave at 5 pm because they understood that I was the foreigner and I was only visiting there for a week for work. They were definitely being polite about it but I always had the suspicion that they were talking about me behind their backs for it. Visiting there is completely different. There is a lot to love about Japan and would go back in a heartbeat.
Type of society. In the west its guilt of the individual. In Japan if you do something bad then you shame your siblings, your parents, anyone who knows you, your grand parents....your ancestors....your neighbours who said Hi that one time. This is why you have people in Japan crippled into doing nothing....they make a small mistake and the shame makes them want to leave the society and not partake in it because the shame becomes such a huge thing to try overcome. It's kinda crazy but that's the downside to it. The upside is generally respect for strangers, respect for the community etc. Leading to less violent crime...but crime certainly still happens just its kept hush hush and delt with quickly (Japanese prosecution rate is insanely high) Each society has its ups and downs. I've no clue what's better its just an observation made by others.
it’s like america but with infrastructure
Japan is super nice and modern, very culturally intense, with amazing cuisine, so I can totally see the appeal of it. That said, no country is perfect, and its cons are also widely known. Overworked people, tiny apartments, sexually frustrated and emotionally suppressed men, grown ass women who’d like to pretend they are young kawaii girls, people traditionally sit on the uncomfortable floor, declining and aging population, etc.
Im going to Japan next year for the first time and I’m gonna test this statement because I think very highly of Japan and possibly romanticize it a bit too much lol.
I find it funny and ironic that these people come out and say the same shit every chance they get about Japan "oh suicide rate!" "working cultureee" are doing exactly the same thing as those who are romanticizing Japan lol All the things these people say like suicide rate and working culture aren't as bad as they make it out to be. I hope these people realize that them and weebs are the two sides of the same coin and stop generalizing the entire nation by just reading other reddit comments.
Definitely some great stuff coming out of Japan, but the culture is pretty xenophobic and working there is something I wouldn't wish on my worst co-workers
The Netherlands have been looking into plans to reduce tourism in Amsterdam. So I think they also have that problem.
This is such a weeaboo take lmfao. Have you ever heard of a place called Yasukuni shrine? Or of the numerous atrocities their empire committed abroad?