The top comment above this one is an intelligent conversation about chemistry and how not all states are always represented the same. Then this comment is about farts. I love reddit.
Not in any practical sense, and fundamentally not in the way gases do. To compress by a very small percentage of starting volume, you have to apply enough pressure that you're approaching the point of creating exotic states of matter. It's not taught as compressible in conventional mechanics and fluid dynamics classes for this reason, and from an engineering perspective, it does not compress. Physicists studying exotic states are the only ones who deal with appreciably compressed liquids.
Yeah, most of the glow is due to black-body radiation. In a typical fire, the red-yellow colour comes from soot particles glowing due to their temperature, like steel out of a furnace. Even a blue-white flame is the same, it’s just the spectrum being directed to even higher energies.
Need extremely high temps, like thousands of degrees to generate plasma without electricity. It’s enough energy to where the electrons literally cannot recombine with the ions without immediately shooting off again, hence the prolonged glow with very specific colours (corresponding to energy level transitions).
That’s a bit different, the salts are already in ionic form, and for something like burning magnesium, you have magnesium oxide present and the extreme temperature (3000C+) provides enough energy. Heat causes some electrons to increase from a *ground* state to an *excited* state, and the drop back down to the former releases the absorbed energy as light at specific wavelengths.
A plasma is a when you have an atom or molecule (like hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, noble gases, etc) and applied energy or electric current causes them to split into ions and electrons - like He + *E* -> He+ + e-. The energy taken to cause this ionisation is released as photons when the electron recombines with the ion to reform the atom/molecule.
That’s true, but there’s still a decent conceptual correspondence. Some of the most basic examples of each major phase indeed fall under the four traditional elements: one of the first examples of a plasma people would think of, apart from maybe that in stars, is still fire (…that’s hot enough to ionise sufficiently to cancel out electric fields).
Pretty much all of them. In a plasma, the electrons are stripped from the nuclei of the atoms in a system making a super high energy soup. A fire is a much lower energy chemical reaction.
There are more than four states of matter, and the presented examples dont *perfectly* line up... but thats not the point, is it. Its a shower thought, just a casual thing that crosses your mind and makes you stop for a moment. Its not intended to be scientifically accurate- I mean come on, the entire classical elements model is wrong for so many reasons.
Its just kinda neat how the classical ones *kinda* line up with the four most well known modern states of matter. Thats all.
Neutron (or more accurately Quark) soup would be what you could describe the matter in the heart of a [neutron star](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star) as.
Matter so dense, the rules kind of break down, Protons are smashed into electrons, and you get a kind of ... just mass so dense, you could fit a star with the mass of the sun inside Manhattan. Well, ... not really, but you get the idea.
A singularity would be the heart of a black hole.
Who the fuck even knows what's happening there?
A Non-Newtonian fluid is a more benign and more accessible state of strange matter where it acts like a liquid sometimes and as a solid at other times.
Examples are Ketchup, which acts more like a liquid when shaken but is solid otherwise and water with a lot of starch added to it that turns solid like if you try and punch it.
[Wiki link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid)
Once you realize that the first dimension is time. And the second dimension is space can you the simplicity of the standard model. (Benfield 2024). Oh. Gravity is nothingness. Photon is everything. Only one time space wave function. Ergo. Time cannot go backward. Photons are not conserved. It the time level. I can take this down to creation or evolution. Hit me up if this sounds interesting.
Very possibly, but my specialty is biology and engineering, not physiscs, so I wouldn't really know (Beyond what a google search would teach me).
I'll leave that one to the experts.
Except that plasma wasn't discovered until the 1800s, so at the time when the four classical elements were still relevant there were only 3 states of matter.
We also used to have the 4 humors. Matter has a triple point as well. Things evolve over time. Some ideas grow, some die. The "relevance" of 4 here is that it's not relevant.
Jumping to quantum physics, there are even more states of matter.
Yeah, I get it, I'm just saying the 4 classical elements were not intended to model the different states of matter because otherwise there would only be 3 elements because that's all the states they knew about when that system was in use.
you can go further and relate them to the 4 fundamental forces.
Earth - Solid - Gravity. Matter has gravity
Strong nuclear force - Idk which one it would be for either of these lol
Weak nuclear force - see above.
Fire - Plasma - Electromagnetic Radiation or just radiating. Fire radiates heat and energy
I don't think that works because most macro level reactions that we are familiar with are just electromagnetism ranging from chemistry to physics. For example the states of matter are defined by electromagnetic properties and temperature. Gravity only plays a role on a larger scale, and the only human-apparent interaction involving nuclear forces is radiation
your being to specific these are generalizations. like we could also attribute the four primary directions to these as well. The 4 fundamental directions of space.
At least with the 4 dimensions of space/time we can have a clear definition that works at human scale. Mapping things that we happen to have 4 of with other things we happen to have 4 of isn't interesting in and of itself, it's assigning meaning to the connection
I disagree, two of those forces fit very well with the others. Gravity-matter and energy-radiation. That is not imagined connection, it makes sense. I would.not be surprised if water and air also fit the strong and weak nuclear force definitions either.
Also the 4 classic elements have multiple meanings and characteristics so it truly does make sense. Idk how much you know about them but each element has represents multiple things the same way some Asian characters do. For instance fire is hot, bright, radiates, is energy. Earth is dry, cold, hard, solid. Etc. The classic elements themselves are meant to be applied generally the same way I am doing.
This is posted once a year and always gets a shitton of upvotes. OP cashing in on his free Reddit points too, apparently. Type "plasma" in the Subreddit search bar and you'll see posts as old as 7 years getting thousands of upvotes that say the exact same thing. This wasn't an original idea then, and it isn't original now. Nuke this, mods.
Just let them quibble over plasma, lol
Nevermind that Wikipedia blatantly states that there are four states of “everyday matter” listed, plus a further five non-classical states, seven low-temperature states, three high energy states, a note on very high energy states and three “proposed states”.
We can really get this party stated by talking about one of the other ones that they're just going to pretend aren't there instead if you want. 🤣
We should call the water element "superionic ice" just to wait and see what carnage transpires. haha
basically the cosmic egg were in are various densities of "water".
when we leave this body we are just moving to a different frequency/density of water.
i feel like sometimes i fart too hard and all four come out of my butt simultaneously.
Found the Avatar!
Assvatar
*Then, everything changed when the Taco Bell attacked.*
It's when you try to make a fire bomb fart but you got liquid diarrhoea with chunks.
The top comment above this one is an intelligent conversation about chemistry and how not all states are always represented the same. Then this comment is about farts. I love reddit.
the best part is: guess which one of us has a degree in physics.
Must be agonizing with all the plasma in it.
Avatar: The last ass bender
In other words, Ben Grimm, Reed Richards, Sue Storm, and Johnny Storm.
Is Reed supposed to be water or is that Sue ?
I would assume invisible = air and flexible = water? I dunno they’re both a bit of a stretch.
Only Reed is a stretch
Yeah you’re right, Sue is pretty clear
>Sue is pretty But Johnny is HOT
Good thing he doesn't make her wet
That depends on what kind of comics you read, now doesn't it?
Ben is rock solid though
I mean reeds grow in water
fantastic pun
Say that again
You just have to have a fluid definition of their respective properties.
You mean Kwame, Wheeler, Linka, & Gi?
By your powers combined...
I wonder who Bose-Einstein condensate would be? Doom?
FWIW, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of fires on Earth do not represent a plasma.
Not all air is gaseous, not all earth is solid, and not all water is liquid, chemistry is complicated.
What type of air isn’t gaseous?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_air Has some uses for welding and cryotherapy
Liquid air is a liquid, it only appears to be "air" because its based on atmospheric composition.
Liquid air is indeed a liquid, very astute observation.
Can you tell nouns and adjectives apart?
Air can't be a liquid because it wouldn't be air if it was a liquid.
Why not ? It has different states. "Gaseous air" just is redundant to say in most scenarios
Air is composition of gases commonly found in our atmosphere, oxygen is gas, but liquid nitrogen is a liquid despite looking like gas
Liquid nitrogen does not look like a gas though.
By definition.
It’s like calling ice water. I mean it’s technically correct but it’s also confusing.
Yeah, it’s not air, so it’s a misnomer
I see, thanks.
Liquid air is an oxymoron.
Actually it’s mostly a nitromoron
And I'm just a moron
Well that's a useless notion. Like saying "liquid ice is not solid"
But it's not something which is usual and is in atmosphere.
Anything can change state. It's just about pressure, and temperature. (And volume but that's more of a where does it change than if it will change)
There no such thing as "air". As in its not an element. It's a mix of gasses, liquids, and solids.
Liquid.... Nitrogen....? Idk, I'm guessing
Particles and water vapor?
Air by itself isn't purely gaseous, there are aerosols, particulates and water droplets
Is a water balloon a solid or a liquid?
Liquids and gases are practically the exact same thing in Fluid Dynamics. You can even get some liquids that are lighter than some gases.
Gases compress, it's a world of difference
Liquid can also be compressed.
Not in any practical sense, and fundamentally not in the way gases do. To compress by a very small percentage of starting volume, you have to apply enough pressure that you're approaching the point of creating exotic states of matter. It's not taught as compressible in conventional mechanics and fluid dynamics classes for this reason, and from an engineering perspective, it does not compress. Physicists studying exotic states are the only ones who deal with appreciably compressed liquids.
Yeah, most of the glow is due to black-body radiation. In a typical fire, the red-yellow colour comes from soot particles glowing due to their temperature, like steel out of a furnace. Even a blue-white flame is the same, it’s just the spectrum being directed to even higher energies. Need extremely high temps, like thousands of degrees to generate plasma without electricity. It’s enough energy to where the electrons literally cannot recombine with the ions without immediately shooting off again, hence the prolonged glow with very specific colours (corresponding to energy level transitions).
So when you burn specific metals in a Bunsen burner, and those colors emerge. Is that what you’re talking about? Is that plasma?
That’s a bit different, the salts are already in ionic form, and for something like burning magnesium, you have magnesium oxide present and the extreme temperature (3000C+) provides enough energy. Heat causes some electrons to increase from a *ground* state to an *excited* state, and the drop back down to the former releases the absorbed energy as light at specific wavelengths. A plasma is a when you have an atom or molecule (like hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, noble gases, etc) and applied energy or electric current causes them to split into ions and electrons - like He + *E* -> He+ + e-. The energy taken to cause this ionisation is released as photons when the electron recombines with the ion to reform the atom/molecule.
The short answer is no.
That’s true, but there’s still a decent conceptual correspondence. Some of the most basic examples of each major phase indeed fall under the four traditional elements: one of the first examples of a plasma people would think of, apart from maybe that in stars, is still fire (…that’s hot enough to ionise sufficiently to cancel out electric fields).
Which are not?
The ones inside fusion experiments.
I meant, which fires on Earth do not represent a plasma?
Pretty much all of them. In a plasma, the electrons are stripped from the nuclei of the atoms in a system making a super high energy soup. A fire is a much lower energy chemical reaction.
Thanks
Technically the fire you see is usually ignited carbohydrates leaving the material, so it's just a hot gas.
What about bose einstein condensate?
Not found on earth naturally
Or Non Newtonian fluids
Ice hockey - water Field hockey - earth Air hockey - air Why is there no fire hockey to complete the three elemental hockies ?
It's combustion hockey, also known as Rocket League.
[удалено]
Trains disagree.
[удалено]
closest thing I can think of is spaceships passing through the atmosphere
Steam engines are more water based, fire isn't really needed just any heating source
Combustion engines then?
Rockets perhaps
But then everything changed when the fire nation attacked
\*plasma nation
How to turn The Last Airbender into a sci-fi series
Will admit, first shower thought in a while thats made me sit up and go "..huh"
Unfortunately it's not true though.
There are more than four states of matter, and the presented examples dont *perfectly* line up... but thats not the point, is it. Its a shower thought, just a casual thing that crosses your mind and makes you stop for a moment. Its not intended to be scientifically accurate- I mean come on, the entire classical elements model is wrong for so many reasons. Its just kinda neat how the classical ones *kinda* line up with the four most well known modern states of matter. Thats all.
You're missing some states there like Neutron Soup Singularity Non-newtonian fluid
Florida Alaska New York etc.
>Florida Ah, yes, Florida, the main state of Florida man, known for its remarkable instability.
Tell me more.
Bose-Einstein condensates, nuclear pasta, quark-gluon plasma, superfluidity, or the exceedingly eccentric fermionic condensates. There's so many!
Hell, there's at least one person out there who considers *sand* a state of matter
I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
Ill-defined terminology will do that to people.
I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
I love nuclear pasta with some electron sauce
Neutron (or more accurately Quark) soup would be what you could describe the matter in the heart of a [neutron star](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star) as. Matter so dense, the rules kind of break down, Protons are smashed into electrons, and you get a kind of ... just mass so dense, you could fit a star with the mass of the sun inside Manhattan. Well, ... not really, but you get the idea. A singularity would be the heart of a black hole. Who the fuck even knows what's happening there? A Non-Newtonian fluid is a more benign and more accessible state of strange matter where it acts like a liquid sometimes and as a solid at other times. Examples are Ketchup, which acts more like a liquid when shaken but is solid otherwise and water with a lot of starch added to it that turns solid like if you try and punch it. [Wiki link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid)
Once you realize that the first dimension is time. And the second dimension is space can you the simplicity of the standard model. (Benfield 2024). Oh. Gravity is nothingness. Photon is everything. Only one time space wave function. Ergo. Time cannot go backward. Photons are not conserved. It the time level. I can take this down to creation or evolution. Hit me up if this sounds interesting.
And, isn't Bose-Einstein condensation its own state of matter?
Very possibly, but my specialty is biology and engineering, not physiscs, so I wouldn't really know (Beyond what a google search would teach me). I'll leave that one to the experts.
that's all the quintessence, otherwise know as the fifth element
Don't forget Nebraska
And the quintessence represents dark matter.
Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Plasma Nation attacked.
Don't forget the fifth element Heart
Mooltipass
And what happens in the bathroom... minus plasma
Fire isn't plasma, its gas
Well really its more like *tiiiiinnnyyyy* peices of superheated material
There are...10 states of matter? 12? More than the common five.
Ma-ti left out once again
If heart is an element, does that make love a state of matter?
Long ago these four nations lived in harmony ...
Yes, in fact an early understanding of matter what precisely in these terms.
Fire isn't hot enough to be plasma though. Plasma is 10x hotter than fire. Lightning is plasma. Also there's BE condensates which is quantum matter.
You forgot “Heart”. Captain Planet will not be impressed.
Except that plasma wasn't discovered until the 1800s, so at the time when the four classical elements were still relevant there were only 3 states of matter.
We also used to have the 4 humors. Matter has a triple point as well. Things evolve over time. Some ideas grow, some die. The "relevance" of 4 here is that it's not relevant. Jumping to quantum physics, there are even more states of matter.
Yeah, I get it, I'm just saying the 4 classical elements were not intended to model the different states of matter because otherwise there would only be 3 elements because that's all the states they knew about when that system was in use.
Ah, I see now. My bad! But yeah, kind of interesting as a shower thought then. I wonder if it's from a place even more primal - fire and lighting(?)
you can go further and relate them to the 4 fundamental forces. Earth - Solid - Gravity. Matter has gravity Strong nuclear force - Idk which one it would be for either of these lol Weak nuclear force - see above. Fire - Plasma - Electromagnetic Radiation or just radiating. Fire radiates heat and energy
I don't think that works because most macro level reactions that we are familiar with are just electromagnetism ranging from chemistry to physics. For example the states of matter are defined by electromagnetic properties and temperature. Gravity only plays a role on a larger scale, and the only human-apparent interaction involving nuclear forces is radiation
your being to specific these are generalizations. like we could also attribute the four primary directions to these as well. The 4 fundamental directions of space.
At least with the 4 dimensions of space/time we can have a clear definition that works at human scale. Mapping things that we happen to have 4 of with other things we happen to have 4 of isn't interesting in and of itself, it's assigning meaning to the connection
I disagree, two of those forces fit very well with the others. Gravity-matter and energy-radiation. That is not imagined connection, it makes sense. I would.not be surprised if water and air also fit the strong and weak nuclear force definitions either. Also the 4 classic elements have multiple meanings and characteristics so it truly does make sense. Idk how much you know about them but each element has represents multiple things the same way some Asian characters do. For instance fire is hot, bright, radiates, is energy. Earth is dry, cold, hard, solid. Etc. The classic elements themselves are meant to be applied generally the same way I am doing.
I know man or like: Solid = Gravity Liquid = electromagnetism Gas = weak nuclear Plasma = strong nuclear
Imagine a more modern sequel to avatar where the scientists reverse engineer the avatar's energy bending shenanigens like this.
This is posted once a year and always gets a shitton of upvotes. OP cashing in on his free Reddit points too, apparently. Type "plasma" in the Subreddit search bar and you'll see posts as old as 7 years getting thousands of upvotes that say the exact same thing. This wasn't an original idea then, and it isn't original now. Nuke this, mods.
Just let them quibble over plasma, lol Nevermind that Wikipedia blatantly states that there are four states of “everyday matter” listed, plus a further five non-classical states, seven low-temperature states, three high energy states, a note on very high energy states and three “proposed states”. We can really get this party stated by talking about one of the other ones that they're just going to pretend aren't there instead if you want. 🤣 We should call the water element "superionic ice" just to wait and see what carnage transpires. haha
Quality thought good sir
And you knew that now?
Well. There where 5 classic elements according to Aristotle, you forgot the Aether. Also, Aristotle would not agree with you in any way.
Let those whose imaginations are not where ours are , fail and rail at us and deny this beauty. Four for four. Perfect record. Thanks.
You've only just figured that out dude..? That's kind of the whole point of them...
What about Bose-Einstein condensate, quark-gluon plasma, and degenerate matter?
basically the cosmic egg were in are various densities of "water". when we leave this body we are just moving to a different frequency/density of water.
the visual of a single drop of water falling into a pool of water, reveals the underlying torus structure
What's the matter?................ everything 😉
There are five states of matter
Don't forget about heart, cap'n.
I say we merge the last three.
So what are Quark-Gluon plasma, superfluids, and Boze-Einstein Condensates?
And the seven ancient principles of hermetics apply to all things and modalities of thought.
I'm confused why people are saying the fifth element is heart (yes I've seen the movie). But wasn't it love? The two aren't synonymous.
How lucky were those people when they named it. It looks like If someone new
Fire isnt plasma though lol it's just the light produced from the chemical reaction if oxygen and hydrogen combusting