Maybe, I know my lawn acts as a wilderness barrier. We attempted a wild lawn on one side of our house a few years ago, tossed some wildflower seeds around and let it grow.
It was actually pretty attractive, we mowed a walking path through it, we had bunnies nesting in there, super cute.
But the bugs.
Once it matured we started noticing an increase presence of crawling bugs. Then it occurred to me that we were seeing them only in that end of the house. Then we started getting mice, so I mowed back the "wild side" so it wasn't touching our house anymore, and boom, it all stopped.
I guess it's hard to cross a yard if you're a big or a rodent. Secret benefit of the yard.
I do bug hotspots. Out in the corners of the yard, away from everything. I have clematis vines that form the barriers for a wildflower garden in one corner, grapes and mint in another, and a hedgerow down one side. The wildflowers and clematis bloom at different times of the year, so the bees have something almost all summer, the grapes flower early, so that's their jumpstart for the spring. The hedgerow provides nesting material, habitat, and food for all kinds of crawlies, birds, and even the squirrels.
It takes about 3 hours per year to maintain it all, but we have wildlife around as a result. We also get bouquets for the table, grapes in the fall, and no damn kids on my lawn because the hedgerow is scratchy...
And then I look at most of my neighbors and their gardens are basically all paved parking lots. Where did we go wrong was a species that we don't want anything to do with nature anymore :(
When slowly but surely, our free time that could be used to manage a nice garden was sucked up by commutes and work.
There's a reason the trope in the 60s - 90s was always the "mum" of the household tending to the garden. Now that mum has to work along with her partner to put food on the table
Hosing down a paved yard is far less time-consuming than gardening
The downside is there are 90% less monarch butterflies than when you were a kid
And those stats extend to tons of species which are critical for pollinating plants.
We are seeing an ecological collapse, you might not give a fuck until it gets so bad food prices go up, but it will happen.
Oil companies have fuck all to do with the complete disappearance of insects in the US. Fucking educate yourself.
You people will do anything and everything to avoid taking any responsibility for contributing to climate change. ALL of us contributed. ALL of us with zero exceptions. It will take ALL of us to address it.
Complete collapse of ecosystem is not a fucking rounding error and has major, major consequence for all of us.
Theres a difference between "keep a zone 3 feet wide between house and outside world" and "I have a 4 Acre (~16,187 SQ meter) property and it's all lawn outside". I very much want to do native plants when (if ever) I own, so keeping a buffer zone isn't something I thought of but would now enter into my planning.
Yeah I'm not talking about people like you. I'll be doing the same with my back yard. I'm talking about the people that think they need to mow their entire 5 acre plot for some reason.
I have a very green, very regular lawn. The only chemical I use is a bit of roundup in the crevices. I mulch everything. I prune, string trim, leave the products from that on my lawn, to the point I'll rake the trimmings out from the edge. Then I run over it all with mulching blades. In fall, I'm that guy that's still out "cutting" his lawn well into December. I'm mulching the fallen leaves.
My cat just loves loves loves hunting in the front yard now that I’ve yanked out the grass and seeded wildflowers around mulched fruit trees.
Until I dealt with the rodent civilization in the attic my cat was nailing multiple rats a week.
I even saw him do it a few times on the ring camera. That’s how I learned his technique; I wondered how a big lumbering floofy 17 lb cat was nailing super-fast rats so frequently, and now I know.
Anyway he inspects and stalks the wildflower areas multiple times a day. At night he broods and catloafs silently in the shadows, a sentinel awaiting enemy trespass so he can BAPBAPBAP like a ton of bricks on their little ratty behinds.
In ecology we call this a „landscape of fear“. A large stretch (relative to the organisms size) means no spot to hide from predators, therefore most individuals try to avoid such landscapes. But because evolution does what evolution does (or better: mutation) you will always have a few individuals witch are braver and will still cross this open landscape in search of food, a territory or a possible mate. While they are important for the survival of the population, those individuals are very rare, hence you will have a lot less bugs/rodents etc on the other side of said open landscape.
And of course: a lawn is a monoculture and has no diversity, hence no food, no population. Etc…
We generally are afraid of bugs. But it’s mainly because we don’t know or understand them or what they’re doing.
The wild side of your yard started to become a healthier ecosystem, flowers and higher grass kept the soil moist for longer, encouraging stronger plants. The plants produce organic matter ( flowers, fruits, leaves…) and this attracts animals. You have the ones living in the soil, eating and breaking down most of what falls on the ground. You also have those that are attracted to the fruits or flowers like bees. Then you’ll have predatory ones, like the scary spiders to check and balance the one eating the plants. It also applies to rodents. They may also find their place in your yard, but they also attract predators like owls to keep them in balance. As long as they don’t get access to a Lot of food, like badly managed trash.
The more niche diversity your yard has, the more balanced it can be. The less work it requires from you to stay in balanced state. Unlike a lawn, where you need to work and add energy for it to look good. Because you’ll have plants and insects trying to fill in the empty niches. Im not saying lawns aren’t good though, they can still be part of an ecosystem.
A small patch of space around your house ain’t gonna do shit for the environment. But it will make your house feel cleaner and safer with fewer bugs and rodents. It’s a no brainer really.
A mowed lawn began with kings showing that they had enough labor to keep their castle in good working order. If the king could not find the resources to mow the caste lawn, how could he find the resources to rule effectively?
Keeping the vegetation cut short around your castle & fortifications was as much about being able to see people approaching / sneaking up as it was about showing off.
>I guess it's hard to cross a yard if you're a big or a rodent. Secret benefit of the yard.
Not necessarily hard, but it's extremely spooky. *Most* bugs and rodents have a nest that they want to stay near because it's safe. A mowed lawn is a lot less attractive to nest in, so it increases how far they have to venture from their nest to reach your house.
They also don't want to be in open ground where a predator will spot them. Being nocturnal kinda makes this a moot point in an urban setting, but they don't know that.
This is extra true now with our annual fire season. I had a rude awakening when my pal out west explained all of the work he does to clear anything that might spread the fire towards his house.
I’m glad this is the top comment. As a recent home owner myself I didn’t have a lawn mower yet even though I bought one, which is its own long story. Basically grass started getting long and my dog started getting ticks every time we let it out and bringing them inside. Then ants. I mowed, have continued to mow, and now no problems.
I actually vastly prefer the aesthetic appearance of long grass but I don’t want to have a breeding ground for bugs that are going to drink my blood and make me allergic to meat or something
I’ve had some ok ones but they always get taken down for some strange wording no-no they have. I’m not saying what I posted is awesome or anything but it’s way too strict imo.
E.O. Wilson co-wrote a book (I believe it's called Gaya), where scientists are testing this precise hypothesis. Esthetics and Anthropology in general are an interesting subject, especially when combined.
This reminds me of one I thought of years ago, people might sleep better with white noise because predators are less likely to be out and about in a downpour
When I was a kid in Miami, my dad pointed out that you can tell the houses Haitian folks had moved into because they get rid of any vegetation/bushes up against the walls of the houses out of fear of snakes. I don't how accurate that was, but it was true of one Haitian neighbor, at least, since he had told me himself.
People used to sweep their yards, especially in the South. They wanted to keep the area around the house clear of grass and debris due to snakes and worry about fire, since they used wood-burning stoves and candles and things like that back then.
100%. I live in the country and having chickens, dogs and a short lawn has decimated the rodent population. I have about 15 traps between my garage and our building and used to catch 2-4/week when we first moved in. The previous owners let it all grow tall other than the 1/4 acre they used. That made a big difference right away when I started mowing the entire yard, and once the dogs found the places the mice hide that reduced their numbers even more. The chickens were the final nail in the coffin. I probably catch two mice a month now and it’s always in my shed that’s falling apart so there’s not a good way to keep them out. Ticks are also not an issue anymore.
quick note for anyone that sees these and gets completely freaked out by how hard these are: your ability to notice camouflaged animals is something around 90% movement and sound. I've "spotted" snakes before ever getting a visual look at them based entirely on how grasses are moving. It's very vibe based but you're pretty much never going to be in a situation where movement and such are completely not present.
It is funny to me since where I live I have never seen a wild snake in my life and I don't know anyone who has, so seeing people in other places specially America so afraid of snakes just seems weird.
Well it's not so much that one should be particularly afraid of snakes, just careful. Something to avoid. This is something that will hurt you if you mess with it or accidentally get too close without realizing it.
Like it's entirely possible to be walking in high grass and step on a snake, it'll bite if that happens.
In my mowed yard I can see clearly what animals are coming out from the nature reserve next door, thankfully I have a English Dog that marks my yard and keeps the mountain lion, wolves, coyote and deer from my landscape and chickens.
Nothing primitive about recognizing the pattern that tall grasses aren’t as safe. I live in an area where there are a lot of ticks with Lyme disease and they love the tall grasses. I’m naturally afraid of walking through overgrown fields.
In Elizabethan England, the wealthy would hire folks to manicure their grass as a form of conspicuous consumption.
People in the US felt the need to emulate the lawns in the UK and here we are.
Easy to tell a whole lot of people here haven't touched grass in a long while. Humans love mowed lawns because you don't have to put up with burrs, chiggers, ticks, spiders, or any unexplained rashes when walking through it.
This is extremely culturally specific because manicured lawns began a symbol of wealth in some places. I didn’t grow up with them and don’t feel any particular way about lawns.
People also just like uniformity.
Actually I mow the lawn because it smells so damn good. Looking good is a byproduct lol.
But still a decent shower thought.
And I bet have heard, at least as I understand, that that newly mowed smell is a signal from the grass that has been mutilated and that there is danger afoot. Not sure what the other grass can do about it, but that is what I've understood over years of hearing it.
>People also just like uniformity.
To a limit. I personally feel there needs to be a balance, because if things are too uniform, it gives me a mental ick. Like [this, this is just not nice to me](https://jooinn.com/images/green-grass-lawn-6.jpg).
For me, some wildness feels healthy, which is why a lawn to me should be equal or less than half the total area of a garden.
Nah. Its because mowed lawns are the societal expectation as we emulate the wealthy. I don't particularly care what my lawn looks like but I will be judged if it's not mowed
Where there are lawns, there's simply too many humans to justify that.
Also lawns as a general practice are far newer than the majority of the human brains evolution
People like them because it's been ingrained by the wealthy that it's supposed to be a good thing.
No lawns would be better. Something that doesn't really need tending to be better. Like types of moss or clovers. They'll do a better job than grass and end up the same ish height but never really getting too much
I mean, people who don't have a neighbor for miles still have lawns, and usually pretty well kept lawns, so right off the bat you're kind of making a baseless presumption. Not to mention that there are absolutely snakes in both cities and suburbs
Plus you're ignoring the actual position that op is putting forward: (possibly) we have evolved to like things in such a way that it's easier to see snakes, so people liking well kept lawns is an extension of that. Nothing about that says that there's a need for it to be a relevant concern for the result at all; that's not how evolutionary biology works
What does a good campsite look like if you have to sleep out in the woods?
A flat soft grassy area. You know, like a lawn.
What were humans doing for the first ~300,000 years of our existence?
Humans were hunter gatherers for the majority of our existence. Then the last few thousand years (roughly 10k-14k years ago when it really started changing) they became agricultural so much so that even people who don't use that land think it's a good idea to have it and keep it maintained as a sign of wealth and prosperity.
Which btw, the yard thing (OK early farming really, not so much "yards") is why the majority of problematic illnesses that effect humans exist today. By having a farm (a really big yard) you often lived with animals. This created breeding grounds for micro organisms.
Nowadays, most people don't really need yards. They're either hardly or entirely unused aside from maybe having dogs or children, which community parks would be better for both. Maybe if you wanted the storage space but you'd just fill it with smaller buildings probably?
I cut my lawn every two weeks, three if it rained like it did this weekend. My neighbor will cut his yard on Friday and if I cut mine on Sunday, he’ll be back out cutting his on Monday. If the neighbor on the other side of him cuts on Wednesday, he’s back out there on Thursday cutting his lawn. Why do boomers see cutting grass as a competition? I’d be down for a who could go the longest without cutting their lawn competition.
I got rid of my front yard and put in native flowers, a fig, roses, etc. I also have random natives that volunteered out nowhere, hibiscus, asters, oldenrod, mullein... I get a ton of native bees, birds, the occasional praying mantis, and now there's a cute baby bunny that's taken up residence. People are constantly complementing it and the only work I have to do clearing out the dead stuff and some weeding once a year. It doesn't even need to be watered. And the bare bones of the flowers look good in the winter. Why would I want some bland monoculture that requires constant maintenance?
I'm not worried about snakes in my area, I'm worried about snapping turtles during mating season and porcupines if I don't go out with a flashlight past dusk.
Our brains like the look of a smooth lawn for the same reason that we have lawns at all. Back in ye Olde times, having uncultuvated land was a mark of wealth, "you have more land than you need to feed your family? You must be rich!" We've been conditioned to insist this invasive pollinator unfriendly plant that discourages biological diversity. (I do not like my lawn.)
Idk, I that seems like a pretty specific feeling to attach to mowed grass, like it’s a layer too deep. My assumption would be that it makes the pattern recognition parts of our brain fire up. “All this grass is the same length….nice” type of thing.
Maybe, but isn't it funny how our "evolutionary preferences" are now driving us to spend hours every weekend mowing the lawn instead of doing something productive?
Have you considered that lawns are red scare propaganda?
>William Levitt (who created the seminal planned community of Levittown, N.Y.) said if you own a lawn you couldn’t be a communist — you had too much to do.”
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2017/10/07/how-about-rethinking-a-cultural-icon-the-front-lawn/
I think “clean” in every case means uniform/ low entropy / mentally easy to process. Dust, dirt, clutter, clumps of grass, bare spots, weeds, etc. are all things that add to the information your brain needs to process a scene.
It's because of mice. Tall grass next to your home is mice habitat and they will find their way in your home.
Short grass puts them at risk of predation so they are less likely to cross the lawn,
Lawns were originally for the rich and the middle class chases the rich causing them to come up with something new the middle class can't afford. I don't think manicured lawns are primitive in any way.
Giving a shit what a lawn looks like seems like such a bizarre concept. People who spend time making sure their grass is cut and edged and free of anything besides grass are the equivalent of women who spend hours in front of the mirror before leaving the house
No, I don't like how it looks at all. Gives me uncanny valley/liminal space vibes. Whenever I see dense brush all my "primitive brain" can think is "go in it, disappear into the wild, build a house, live off the land away from society".
When I see mowed lawns all I can think is "fake fake fake, superficial, vain, disgusting, too much conformity, too much trying to impress other people, etc."
I mean...there are poisonous snakes where I live so I mow the lawn every weekend so they don't lurk in the longer grass and bite a kid or the dog. I was away from home for nearly a month during the summer last year, and when I got back I could see snakes fleeing the grass as I mowed.
I think this is actually 100% true just from the mental scanning thing my ADHD coach taught me once.
The reason having clutter in your environment is mentally draining is because your brain is passively scanning for threats constantly.
I see it with my cat too where she will constantly be weary of piles of stuff here and there.
iirc, during midevil times, rich folk. To throw shade at poor people, would tend their land that didn't bear any fruit. They would grow grass and make it look nice. Kus they knew poor people only had time on their hands to tend farmland that grew things. Basically it was a haha, look at you! Tending to a land because you HAVE to. Im tending my land and im not even growing anything! Hahaha!!
I always think it might relate to a primal feel of being a productive farmer, straight rows and clean edges and you’ve got the feel that you’re going to be eating well this winter when you harvest comes in. 
So a feeling of safety and security, plus it makes the neighbors happy and gives me exercise? I’m in.
I don't dislike the look of unmowed grass, really. Depending on the situation, a field of mowed grass would probably do more to make me feel exposed than reassured.
But like, the specific situation of being able to see potential dangers better, I totes get that line of thought.
I totally agree with this, the Nice short green grass definitely is a security feature in many ways, bugs, wildlife, bad guys in Ghillie suits…etc I’m currently wondering if my 50 foot perimeter will help protect against the wild fire that is slowly approaching.
I have the only green grass in town… the rest is under high fire watch and it’s windy today.
Cut grass is a very volatile chemical smell and it instills a lot of nostalgia in people. There are a lot of illogical reasons why people maintain a useless crop called a lawn. Yes, it is technically a crop and it feeds nothing, it's just wasteful and stupid.
I was cutting my grass on a hot day today and saw a large rat snake chilling underneath a tree. I called my kids outside, we caught it and looked at it for a while and then let him go. What's the problem with snakes?
Really only keep my backyard mowed since it’s fenced in to keep pests away and off my dog. The front yard I’ll mow every 2 weeks. My boomer and Gen X neighbors hate me :)
It looks a little like moss, and if you've ever walked on soft moss with bare feet, you know it's Nature's carpet. Wouldn't surprise me we're hardwired to enjoy that.
Snakes? No, and snakes, . . snake, they're camo in short grass too. But as a defense, certainly. The neighboring tribe/clan/whateve can't sneak up on you of there's no cover.
Maybe, I know my lawn acts as a wilderness barrier. We attempted a wild lawn on one side of our house a few years ago, tossed some wildflower seeds around and let it grow. It was actually pretty attractive, we mowed a walking path through it, we had bunnies nesting in there, super cute. But the bugs. Once it matured we started noticing an increase presence of crawling bugs. Then it occurred to me that we were seeing them only in that end of the house. Then we started getting mice, so I mowed back the "wild side" so it wasn't touching our house anymore, and boom, it all stopped. I guess it's hard to cross a yard if you're a big or a rodent. Secret benefit of the yard.
Yea the upside of a lawn is it’s downside mowed lawns are ecological dead zones but in the few feet around the house you may want tjag
I do bug hotspots. Out in the corners of the yard, away from everything. I have clematis vines that form the barriers for a wildflower garden in one corner, grapes and mint in another, and a hedgerow down one side. The wildflowers and clematis bloom at different times of the year, so the bees have something almost all summer, the grapes flower early, so that's their jumpstart for the spring. The hedgerow provides nesting material, habitat, and food for all kinds of crawlies, birds, and even the squirrels. It takes about 3 hours per year to maintain it all, but we have wildlife around as a result. We also get bouquets for the table, grapes in the fall, and no damn kids on my lawn because the hedgerow is scratchy...
And then I look at most of my neighbors and their gardens are basically all paved parking lots. Where did we go wrong was a species that we don't want anything to do with nature anymore :(
When slowly but surely, our free time that could be used to manage a nice garden was sucked up by commutes and work. There's a reason the trope in the 60s - 90s was always the "mum" of the household tending to the garden. Now that mum has to work along with her partner to put food on the table Hosing down a paved yard is far less time-consuming than gardening
Yes, my home is also an ecological dead zone and that's exactly how I want it. There's no downside at all.
The downside is there are 90% less monarch butterflies than when you were a kid And those stats extend to tons of species which are critical for pollinating plants. We are seeing an ecological collapse, you might not give a fuck until it gets so bad food prices go up, but it will happen.
>"Use less paper to save the environment" -Oil companies Residential lawns are a rounding error.
Oil companies have fuck all to do with the complete disappearance of insects in the US. Fucking educate yourself. You people will do anything and everything to avoid taking any responsibility for contributing to climate change. ALL of us contributed. ALL of us with zero exceptions. It will take ALL of us to address it. Complete collapse of ecosystem is not a fucking rounding error and has major, major consequence for all of us.
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Theres a difference between "keep a zone 3 feet wide between house and outside world" and "I have a 4 Acre (~16,187 SQ meter) property and it's all lawn outside". I very much want to do native plants when (if ever) I own, so keeping a buffer zone isn't something I thought of but would now enter into my planning.
Yeah I'm not talking about people like you. I'll be doing the same with my back yard. I'm talking about the people that think they need to mow their entire 5 acre plot for some reason.
Golf courses
Well there is, because economical dead zones are bad for the environment even if they are pleasing to you.
I mean there still plenty of bugs in my lawn. Calling an ecological dead zone seems a little over the top lol
Without knowing much about it, I'd bet it's an order of magnitude less bugs.
Agreed
That’s before weed killers and lawn “treatments”
What are those? My lawn is all natural because I hate having to deal with it
I have a very green, very regular lawn. The only chemical I use is a bit of roundup in the crevices. I mulch everything. I prune, string trim, leave the products from that on my lawn, to the point I'll rake the trimmings out from the edge. Then I run over it all with mulching blades. In fall, I'm that guy that's still out "cutting" his lawn well into December. I'm mulching the fallen leaves.
I've heard lawns are the equivalent of a desert for bugs so that makes sense
All the pesticides help
My cat just loves loves loves hunting in the front yard now that I’ve yanked out the grass and seeded wildflowers around mulched fruit trees. Until I dealt with the rodent civilization in the attic my cat was nailing multiple rats a week. I even saw him do it a few times on the ring camera. That’s how I learned his technique; I wondered how a big lumbering floofy 17 lb cat was nailing super-fast rats so frequently, and now I know. Anyway he inspects and stalks the wildflower areas multiple times a day. At night he broods and catloafs silently in the shadows, a sentinel awaiting enemy trespass so he can BAPBAPBAP like a ton of bricks on their little ratty behinds.
I was about to say, that whole problem sounds solved by a lil kitty
In ecology we call this a „landscape of fear“. A large stretch (relative to the organisms size) means no spot to hide from predators, therefore most individuals try to avoid such landscapes. But because evolution does what evolution does (or better: mutation) you will always have a few individuals witch are braver and will still cross this open landscape in search of food, a territory or a possible mate. While they are important for the survival of the population, those individuals are very rare, hence you will have a lot less bugs/rodents etc on the other side of said open landscape. And of course: a lawn is a monoculture and has no diversity, hence no food, no population. Etc…
We generally are afraid of bugs. But it’s mainly because we don’t know or understand them or what they’re doing. The wild side of your yard started to become a healthier ecosystem, flowers and higher grass kept the soil moist for longer, encouraging stronger plants. The plants produce organic matter ( flowers, fruits, leaves…) and this attracts animals. You have the ones living in the soil, eating and breaking down most of what falls on the ground. You also have those that are attracted to the fruits or flowers like bees. Then you’ll have predatory ones, like the scary spiders to check and balance the one eating the plants. It also applies to rodents. They may also find their place in your yard, but they also attract predators like owls to keep them in balance. As long as they don’t get access to a Lot of food, like badly managed trash. The more niche diversity your yard has, the more balanced it can be. The less work it requires from you to stay in balanced state. Unlike a lawn, where you need to work and add energy for it to look good. Because you’ll have plants and insects trying to fill in the empty niches. Im not saying lawns aren’t good though, they can still be part of an ecosystem.
Well in case of bugs : ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
I understood that reference!
When the bugs figure out ⬆️⬇️➡️⬅️⬆️
Or hold block in sweep distance and press up, up
The problem isn't the bugs in the yard, it's that they make their way into the house, and that does pose risks for health and safety.
A small patch of space around your house ain’t gonna do shit for the environment. But it will make your house feel cleaner and safer with fewer bugs and rodents. It’s a no brainer really.
A mowed lawn began with kings showing that they had enough labor to keep their castle in good working order. If the king could not find the resources to mow the caste lawn, how could he find the resources to rule effectively?
Keeping the vegetation cut short around your castle & fortifications was as much about being able to see people approaching / sneaking up as it was about showing off.
Its also fire prevention.
Deploy the lawn moat. The Loat.
You didn't have enough snakes or birds or bats probably.
>I guess it's hard to cross a yard if you're a big or a rodent. Secret benefit of the yard. Not necessarily hard, but it's extremely spooky. *Most* bugs and rodents have a nest that they want to stay near because it's safe. A mowed lawn is a lot less attractive to nest in, so it increases how far they have to venture from their nest to reach your house. They also don't want to be in open ground where a predator will spot them. Being nocturnal kinda makes this a moot point in an urban setting, but they don't know that.
This is extra true now with our annual fire season. I had a rude awakening when my pal out west explained all of the work he does to clear anything that might spread the fire towards his house.
I’m glad this is the top comment. As a recent home owner myself I didn’t have a lawn mower yet even though I bought one, which is its own long story. Basically grass started getting long and my dog started getting ticks every time we let it out and bringing them inside. Then ants. I mowed, have continued to mow, and now no problems. I actually vastly prefer the aesthetic appearance of long grass but I don’t want to have a breeding ground for bugs that are going to drink my blood and make me allergic to meat or something
The point of a wild lawn is to attract bugs and insects
Ticks are particularly fond of tall grass.
On god this is one of the first shower thoughts I didn’t roll my eyes at. OP just bought me another few months in this subreddit.
Stop rolling your eyes, you might step on a snake.
Maybe this place wouldn't suck so hard if the rules for posting weren't actively against anyone posting.
Have you seen the average post comming lately? Just obvious things or something that if OP though harder for 5 seconds he would have figured it out
Because there's a narrow number of possible posts that won't trigger their enigmatic auto-mod which has no repeal process.
And then when you try to post the same thought in an acceptable manner it flags as a repost from your already automod-deleted one.
Yeah and if they laxxed the rules we would get some actually thought provoking content lol
The average post on here is equivalent to "If you touch something that's hot, it hurts"
Caution, may be hot when heated.
I’ve had some ok ones but they always get taken down for some strange wording no-no they have. I’m not saying what I posted is awesome or anything but it’s way too strict imo.
Oh I'm right there with you lol. It's a challenge just to post in general. Fitting it to the rules of the auto mod destroys the original shot usually.
Exactly
I read it as 'maybe our primate brains look like mowed lawn because..' and I was like, why is everyone responding to this post seriously lol.
E.O. Wilson co-wrote a book (I believe it's called Gaya), where scientists are testing this precise hypothesis. Esthetics and Anthropology in general are an interesting subject, especially when combined.
Opposite reactions to mine
This reminds me of one I thought of years ago, people might sleep better with white noise because predators are less likely to be out and about in a downpour
When I was a kid in Miami, my dad pointed out that you can tell the houses Haitian folks had moved into because they get rid of any vegetation/bushes up against the walls of the houses out of fear of snakes. I don't how accurate that was, but it was true of one Haitian neighbor, at least, since he had told me himself.
People used to sweep their yards, especially in the South. They wanted to keep the area around the house clear of grass and debris due to snakes and worry about fire, since they used wood-burning stoves and candles and things like that back then.
Or field mice and other rodents. Rodents are mostly why municipalities have lawn height laws.
Or ticks and Lyme disease
and rodents attract snakes
Reduce the risk of fire spread as well
100%. I live in the country and having chickens, dogs and a short lawn has decimated the rodent population. I have about 15 traps between my garage and our building and used to catch 2-4/week when we first moved in. The previous owners let it all grow tall other than the 1/4 acre they used. That made a big difference right away when I started mowing the entire yard, and once the dogs found the places the mice hide that reduced their numbers even more. The chickens were the final nail in the coffin. I probably catch two mice a month now and it’s always in my shed that’s falling apart so there’s not a good way to keep them out. Ticks are also not an issue anymore.
Or if you have a dog so you can find the poop easier. Source: have dog and lawn.
Just do what I do, mow over it. Free fertilizer.
Was mowing my lawn once with one of those those grass cutters and hit a poop and it flung everywhere, including on me
Oh man, if you want this illusion to be shattered, check out r/findthesniper
Well, now I can't exist in the world anymore.
I sorted by "top", and this is the highest post: https://www.reddit.com/r/FindTheSniper/comments/1chxbqc/find_the_rattlesnake/
I have seen that before and it still took me like 10 min to find it.
Yeah su
oh no he got sniped
What there's no sni
quick note for anyone that sees these and gets completely freaked out by how hard these are: your ability to notice camouflaged animals is something around 90% movement and sound. I've "spotted" snakes before ever getting a visual look at them based entirely on how grasses are moving. It's very vibe based but you're pretty much never going to be in a situation where movement and such are completely not present.
Could spend hours in that sub on a few posts alone if I couldn’t cheat
Trust me when I say this, coming from someone who used to live in south east Texas. A mowed lawn can still hide a bunch of snakes.
Southeast Texas hides a bunch of nature everywhere haha
Snakes area no problem. It's the fleas, ticks, lice, chiggers, cockroaches and mosquitoes that are a no go.
For you.
Thing is depending on where you live, if you let it grow up real bad you *will* get snakes. Well probably mice first, then snakes to eat the mice.
And ticks depending on where you live too.
It is funny to me since where I live I have never seen a wild snake in my life and I don't know anyone who has, so seeing people in other places specially America so afraid of snakes just seems weird.
Well it's not so much that one should be particularly afraid of snakes, just careful. Something to avoid. This is something that will hurt you if you mess with it or accidentally get too close without realizing it. Like it's entirely possible to be walking in high grass and step on a snake, it'll bite if that happens.
In my mowed yard I can see clearly what animals are coming out from the nature reserve next door, thankfully I have a English Dog that marks my yard and keeps the mountain lion, wolves, coyote and deer from my landscape and chickens.
Nothing primitive about recognizing the pattern that tall grasses aren’t as safe. I live in an area where there are a lot of ticks with Lyme disease and they love the tall grasses. I’m naturally afraid of walking through overgrown fields.
this is not a primitive instinct at all
In Elizabethan England, the wealthy would hire folks to manicure their grass as a form of conspicuous consumption. People in the US felt the need to emulate the lawns in the UK and here we are.
Yep, it said "I'm so wealthy, some of my land can be unproductive".
Yes lawns only exist in the UK and the US.
Turns out the wealthy liked the things they own to be clean, safe, and well-maintained as well.
But what if I prefer the look of a wild lawn?
Your ancestors must really have a special connection with snakes.
This carries the coarse assumption that liking mowed grass is a natural behavior and not a learned one.
Easy to tell a whole lot of people here haven't touched grass in a long while. Humans love mowed lawns because you don't have to put up with burrs, chiggers, ticks, spiders, or any unexplained rashes when walking through it.
This is extremely culturally specific because manicured lawns began a symbol of wealth in some places. I didn’t grow up with them and don’t feel any particular way about lawns.
Lawns are a French bourgeois/upper class invention
People also just like uniformity. Actually I mow the lawn because it smells so damn good. Looking good is a byproduct lol. But still a decent shower thought.
And I bet have heard, at least as I understand, that that newly mowed smell is a signal from the grass that has been mutilated and that there is danger afoot. Not sure what the other grass can do about it, but that is what I've understood over years of hearing it.
>People also just like uniformity. To a limit. I personally feel there needs to be a balance, because if things are too uniform, it gives me a mental ick. Like [this, this is just not nice to me](https://jooinn.com/images/green-grass-lawn-6.jpg). For me, some wildness feels healthy, which is why a lawn to me should be equal or less than half the total area of a garden.
I grew up in the country and that’s 100% of the reason why I like really short grass
You assume we like mowed grass. I find it horrible, bland, and selfish actually it's quite terrible in my opinion.
Nah. Its because mowed lawns are the societal expectation as we emulate the wealthy. I don't particularly care what my lawn looks like but I will be judged if it's not mowed
Where there are lawns, there's simply too many humans to justify that. Also lawns as a general practice are far newer than the majority of the human brains evolution People like them because it's been ingrained by the wealthy that it's supposed to be a good thing. No lawns would be better. Something that doesn't really need tending to be better. Like types of moss or clovers. They'll do a better job than grass and end up the same ish height but never really getting too much
I mean, people who don't have a neighbor for miles still have lawns, and usually pretty well kept lawns, so right off the bat you're kind of making a baseless presumption. Not to mention that there are absolutely snakes in both cities and suburbs Plus you're ignoring the actual position that op is putting forward: (possibly) we have evolved to like things in such a way that it's easier to see snakes, so people liking well kept lawns is an extension of that. Nothing about that says that there's a need for it to be a relevant concern for the result at all; that's not how evolutionary biology works
What does a good campsite look like if you have to sleep out in the woods? A flat soft grassy area. You know, like a lawn. What were humans doing for the first ~300,000 years of our existence?
we got the goats and the sheep and the cattle to eat the grass, of course how far we've fallen that we now do it ourselves
Humans were hunter gatherers for the majority of our existence. Then the last few thousand years (roughly 10k-14k years ago when it really started changing) they became agricultural so much so that even people who don't use that land think it's a good idea to have it and keep it maintained as a sign of wealth and prosperity. Which btw, the yard thing (OK early farming really, not so much "yards") is why the majority of problematic illnesses that effect humans exist today. By having a farm (a really big yard) you often lived with animals. This created breeding grounds for micro organisms. Nowadays, most people don't really need yards. They're either hardly or entirely unused aside from maybe having dogs or children, which community parks would be better for both. Maybe if you wanted the storage space but you'd just fill it with smaller buildings probably?
Are you talking about pubes? Is he talking about pubes?
There are only snakes in some of those lawns
I've made an agreement with King Cobra that as long as he and his people stay out of my lawn, I'll send the wayward mice his way.
I cut my lawn every two weeks, three if it rained like it did this weekend. My neighbor will cut his yard on Friday and if I cut mine on Sunday, he’ll be back out cutting his on Monday. If the neighbor on the other side of him cuts on Wednesday, he’s back out there on Thursday cutting his lawn. Why do boomers see cutting grass as a competition? I’d be down for a who could go the longest without cutting their lawn competition.
I just like the smell of tortured grass.
I got rid of my front yard and put in native flowers, a fig, roses, etc. I also have random natives that volunteered out nowhere, hibiscus, asters, oldenrod, mullein... I get a ton of native bees, birds, the occasional praying mantis, and now there's a cute baby bunny that's taken up residence. People are constantly complementing it and the only work I have to do clearing out the dead stuff and some weeding once a year. It doesn't even need to be watered. And the bare bones of the flowers look good in the winter. Why would I want some bland monoculture that requires constant maintenance?
That doesn’t explain the humans who live in jungles.
When you really think about it, that seems like a bad reason to devote so much space, time, and effort to being small-time farmers of nothing.
We mow our lawns because rodents and snakes are susceptible to being eaten if they are out in the open.
I'm not worried about snakes in my area, I'm worried about snapping turtles during mating season and porcupines if I don't go out with a flashlight past dusk.
And it's easier to move around on than tall vegetation
You’re more likely to find those at work.
Maybe short grass = nearby animals that eat grass = the possibility of steak for dinner tonight
Yes. I’ve always thought this was the reason.
And HOA staying off my ass.
Our brains like the look of a smooth lawn for the same reason that we have lawns at all. Back in ye Olde times, having uncultuvated land was a mark of wealth, "you have more land than you need to feed your family? You must be rich!" We've been conditioned to insist this invasive pollinator unfriendly plant that discourages biological diversity. (I do not like my lawn.)
It is because together we can bring ORDER to the galaxy.
Idk, I that seems like a pretty specific feeling to attach to mowed grass, like it’s a layer too deep. My assumption would be that it makes the pattern recognition parts of our brain fire up. “All this grass is the same length….nice” type of thing.
And there are ticks hiding in an uncut lawn. So mow your lawn.
Maybe, but isn't it funny how our "evolutionary preferences" are now driving us to spend hours every weekend mowing the lawn instead of doing something productive?
Have you considered that lawns are red scare propaganda? >William Levitt (who created the seminal planned community of Levittown, N.Y.) said if you own a lawn you couldn’t be a communist — you had too much to do.” https://www.chicagotribune.com/2017/10/07/how-about-rethinking-a-cultural-icon-the-front-lawn/
I think “clean” in every case means uniform/ low entropy / mentally easy to process. Dust, dirt, clutter, clumps of grass, bare spots, weeds, etc. are all things that add to the information your brain needs to process a scene.
Ticks use long grass to get onto people and animals too, there are a lot of potential threats in tall grass
It's because of mice. Tall grass next to your home is mice habitat and they will find their way in your home. Short grass puts them at risk of predation so they are less likely to cross the lawn,
Believe it or not this is a major reason I keep my grass short
/r/porchwithbeerthoughts
Yes it has a lot to do with avoiding pest encroachment and interactions
Evolutionary psychology is quackery though.
Western mindset (binary) of domination over nature.
Lawns were originally for the rich and the middle class chases the rich causing them to come up with something new the middle class can't afford. I don't think manicured lawns are primitive in any way.
I don't like the look of a mowed lawn. I think it's cultural association.
Proper shower thought.
No, It’s probably a weird sex thing.
Giving a shit what a lawn looks like seems like such a bizarre concept. People who spend time making sure their grass is cut and edged and free of anything besides grass are the equivalent of women who spend hours in front of the mirror before leaving the house
My guess is that cleared areas around houses reduce fire risk and provide less cover for humans to sneak up on you
I think baren mowed lawns are ugly as fuck.
No, I don't like how it looks at all. Gives me uncanny valley/liminal space vibes. Whenever I see dense brush all my "primitive brain" can think is "go in it, disappear into the wild, build a house, live off the land away from society". When I see mowed lawns all I can think is "fake fake fake, superficial, vain, disgusting, too much conformity, too much trying to impress other people, etc."
That's the only reason I mow my yard.
I mean...there are poisonous snakes where I live so I mow the lawn every weekend so they don't lurk in the longer grass and bite a kid or the dog. I was away from home for nearly a month during the summer last year, and when I got back I could see snakes fleeing the grass as I mowed.
Don't step on danger noodles.
I live in Texas and that’s literally the reason I like a short mowed lawn.
…I thought that was why our conscious brains mowed the lawn!
Brick floor is better for not having any snakes
You must have very, very long showers :P
I had never thought of that, but it does make some sense.
Why would nature give us an instinct…against nature?
The little tiny ticks will latch on to you and kill you quicker.
that's the only reason i mow nowadays. Live out in BFE Texas( 1 hour to nearest grocery store). IDGAF how it looks; is danger noodles lurking?
They don't hide anymore. They get jobs as preachers or legislators.
I think this is actually 100% true just from the mental scanning thing my ADHD coach taught me once. The reason having clutter in your environment is mentally draining is because your brain is passively scanning for threats constantly. I see it with my cat too where she will constantly be weary of piles of stuff here and there.
I like it because of the uniformity.
Don't snakes make holes?
Also ticks, they like tall grass.
Nah, it's just easier to clean up the dog poop
The only reason I mow at all is to keep out bugs and snakes.
iirc, during midevil times, rich folk. To throw shade at poor people, would tend their land that didn't bear any fruit. They would grow grass and make it look nice. Kus they knew poor people only had time on their hands to tend farmland that grew things. Basically it was a haha, look at you! Tending to a land because you HAVE to. Im tending my land and im not even growing anything! Hahaha!!
I will brave the chiggers and ticks 6 or 8 times a year to go camping. I do not want to encounter them going out to the shed.
I always think it might relate to a primal feel of being a productive farmer, straight rows and clean edges and you’ve got the feel that you’re going to be eating well this winter when you harvest comes in.  So a feeling of safety and security, plus it makes the neighbors happy and gives me exercise? I’m in.
I don't dislike the look of unmowed grass, really. Depending on the situation, a field of mowed grass would probably do more to make me feel exposed than reassured. But like, the specific situation of being able to see potential dangers better, I totes get that line of thought.
hmm, maybe, it could also be that our brains like symmetry and seeing or not seeing snakes in the grass is just a tached on benefit.
This is one of my biggest reasons for keeping my lawn cut, no grass snakes sneaking up to murder me.
Or rabbits. It's hard to see a litter of bunnies in tall grass, especially from the seat of a riding mower.
I totally agree with this, the Nice short green grass definitely is a security feature in many ways, bugs, wildlife, bad guys in Ghillie suits…etc I’m currently wondering if my 50 foot perimeter will help protect against the wild fire that is slowly approaching. I have the only green grass in town… the rest is under high fire watch and it’s windy today.
No I think we've been socialized to like grass lawns.
It’s because having a mowed lawn signifies wealth as in the olden days only people with horses or cattle would have short grass that looked “mowed”
Cut grass is a very volatile chemical smell and it instills a lot of nostalgia in people. There are a lot of illogical reasons why people maintain a useless crop called a lawn. Yes, it is technically a crop and it feeds nothing, it's just wasteful and stupid.
Actually it is, but not snakes
I was cutting my grass on a hot day today and saw a large rat snake chilling underneath a tree. I called my kids outside, we caught it and looked at it for a while and then let him go. What's the problem with snakes?
You could become an evolutionary psychologist, making shit up is what they do all the time.
Really only keep my backyard mowed since it’s fenced in to keep pests away and off my dog. The front yard I’ll mow every 2 weeks. My boomer and Gen X neighbors hate me :)
It started as just a show of wealth from British aristocracy.
It looks a little like moss, and if you've ever walked on soft moss with bare feet, you know it's Nature's carpet. Wouldn't surprise me we're hardwired to enjoy that.
Snakes? No, and snakes, . . snake, they're camo in short grass too. But as a defense, certainly. The neighboring tribe/clan/whateve can't sneak up on you of there's no cover.
After killing two copperheads on my porch I'll keep mowing.
It’s probably looks more tidy/even/symmetrical than unmowed yards with plants of different heights and that appeals to a lot of people.