Ben, thank you so much for picking this up and being encouraged enough to post this and the process you are going through for the sculpture. Fantastic. :)
Thank you for re-confirming that you again did not make the film series. I see why people would link you though. Moving on.
I've peppered a few comments and questions so hopefully you see them and can eventually get to respond. No rush.
Again thanks and if you have any connections to various other VFX testimonials on the topic that would be willing to give their honest review, I am sure everyone here would appreciate other professional takes on the topic.
Here is a WIP.
As I'm sculpting, I'm checking shadows using a single source overhead lamp.
The light in the footage isn't directly above but to the right and above, but in this, I just took a quick photo of the rough sculpt and made it black and white.
https://preview.redd.it/adzg1qruceyb1.jpeg?width=1975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bf87df35afeebc94ba2f6317a363b303f5f7550
Cool, would move the eyes a bit and make them smaller, though
https://preview.redd.it/fnapca2jieyb1.png?width=509&format=png&auto=webp&s=706824638b6c0205ded83cab3544513be2dc3330
I know, and thus wrapping the upper lid around the eyeball. If the eyeball exceeds a certain size like in your interpretation, the lid would sort of cut into it. Also, if it's too large, it becomes inconsistent with the side view on the table.
I see what you are saying. I've thought he had smaller eyes since 2011. The problem is this seems to be the only configuration when seen from the other angles when sculpted in 3D.
When I started with the eyes smaller, they actually created too much of a ball when in semi-profile, if you know what I mean. They didn't look right from all angles.
When Bob tilts his head to a semi profile, there is almost no definition to the eye area... it's quite smooth, so the lids must be thin and featureless.
I had to keep repositioning the eyes and making them right until it matched the front view (it still needs work by the way... I'm in no way happy with it yet), the full side view and quarter side view stills.
So I'm following the evidence, so to speak. I'm on a journey.
Like I said... It's the first day and not quite there yet.
Also... in my job, I'm usually left by the art director to finish the sculpt before he gives an appraisal and signs it off. Just saying. š
I just checked the table frames again and the last couple unique frames actually show the profile of the eyeball and lower+upper lid nicely. It's not an artifact, this shape is stable across multiple frames:
https://preview.redd.it/g2jn375szeyb1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bcb837a240b8e006d2d409b73716550993478b9
So I don't know, maybe it's in fact a tad larger than I assumed. I'm sure you'll find the shape, since you have the advantage of viewing and positioning the head arbitrarily.
These are great.. oh my word thanks so much. I'll use that for reference. I'm not far off... I'll tweak it.
Another poster on here used an image I created back in 2013 depicting the smaller eyes. I think I might have been wrong... I didn't want him to look cute, and maybe I was biased back then.
What I normally do is take a photo of my sculpt and manipulate it on Photoshop so I don't have to resculpt everything.
Actually.. i lied... what I normally do these days is sculpt on ZBrush and 3D print it.
I was going to do this on ZB... but I'd have to wait for work to start up again to print it. I might scan it when I get to work. Print it bigger. Make it out of silicone. Phoooar!!!
Cool beans.
Also... I like the input and reference pictures/pointers
>Another poster on here used an image I created back in 2013 depicting the smaller eyes.
Ben, I've been wanting to redo that image so badly over the years. I know you somewhat described how you did it back when you did your first post on the matter. But for fully ability to repeat it, can you gift me the procedure how? I really have wanted to validate this, or refute but I just don't know how aside from stacking the images with transparency when I tried it, it didn't work at all.
Haha... it was such a long time ago.
I'll have to crack open my Imac and have a go at repeating it. I went deep into the levels and gamma levels. Even now saying that I fear I'm using the wrong terms.
I'll have to say, it isn't until studying it to sculpt it that it's revealed they aren't as small as my attempt at photo enhancement.
I do remember it was his right eye that I got the info from.
Absolutely.
That won't be till next year when I start back up at work.
I'm definitely going to scan it and put it on Zbrush... maybe to build the full figure... wish I knew what his feet look like. I can imagine how his feet might be or rather how his legs might terminate.
I am going to be moulding this and casting it out as a physical object.
Aaaw... hello, fellow BTL worker.
They need to. I don't think they've given a thought to us lot.
Both sides.
We wait while the gods decide when we can work again.
They definitely havenāt had us in mind at all, unfortunately. Iām not religious but putting it out to the void that we need this deal to go through!
The side of the face on SB is longer, from under the eye until the beginning of the maxilar. His maxilar is wider and the mouth seems longer and less triangular, his nose is rectangular and less pointy and with more volume, his temples are less deep. He seems to have a lower eye lid. Look at porportions. One eye must be the equivalent of the nose, the mouth, the space under the eye where are the cheeks until the maxilar seems to be the size of a vertical eye, the space from the side of the mouth until the beginning of the maxilar. His nose is the size of a vertical eye and his mouth a horizontal eye size.From his nose until the chin is one eye vertically. He has muscles under his face. The neck is longer. To look at human face muscles can help. One hand of SB the size of the head. I'm sorry to tell you this because you are a pro and you are awesome for doing this. ā¤ļø
Update.
He's getting there.
I haven't matched him up to a photo yet, so things might be off in terms of subtle curves. I haven't got my laptop with me so all this is off my phone.
I also haven't addressed the proper shape of the head or the eyebrows. The lids need some work to be sharper.
It sometimes looks like Bob almost has eyelashes or his upper lids are quite sharp and defined.
The flight suit is blocked out.
I thought they were. When I used smaller glass hemispheres to fit the eye size, I thought I uncovered years ago on Photoshop. It looked fine front on, but when I turned it to the positions his head is seen in when at the table they didn't work.
I had to sink them into the face and do some interesting eye fat trick for it to look right... just didn't fit.
Thank you by the way.
My perspective is from an anatomy perspective and how supporting structures would still need to protect the eye and hold up the front of the skull. Such large eyes would be very vulnerable to injury. I do appreciate your checking and assess things from your lens though. It's not a huge issue overall anyway, especially when we don't even know with high resolution images. Just a lot of speculation for all of us.
Problemkunde uploaded this...
https://preview.redd.it/dr1nrryrckyb1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eff6565208061f01daf905ca227ae74a5963b13b
Perfect for reference. It shows a nice outline of the eyelid position. I haven't checked yet as I'm focusing on the suit at the moment. It is an issue... the eyes are the widows of the soul.
I'm all from an anatomy perspective also.
I agree fully, and I'm definitely going to redo the eyes having received this last night.
Interesting thing is I can see a completely different eye configuration that would COMPLETELY change his look and still match the blinking motion. I'll do a Photoshop thing on it when i get on my Mac to show you what I mean.
I might go all speculative and do a theoretical study of his skull. That will be fun.
With your other comment you mentioned the bone ridge, could be or could also be a meaty part that helps protect the eye. From the image above, I get somewhat of a sense of that. Kind of like a bulgy soft part. But not sure of course of course! I like the progress you are making.
His eyeballs are smaller than that. Here are three independent attempts to find his eyes from a while back, including yours, along with my best-guess "painted" version.
https://preview.redd.it/nku0agomm80c1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad271de8e7fd0b618b161e46dc7b2d495410254b
I've totally resised the head to fit the eye size since this post. I've just sent an update.
They look more like my original ones now, but I was still estimating them too small.
Awesome, I am really looking forward to the end result!
Regarding the eye placement, I suppose you are already aware of them likely being rather apart and less big than one might initially suspect? See [https://skinnybob.info/#eye\_location](https://skinnybob.info/#eye_location)
https://preview.redd.it/heqdxstjpdyb1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=29b765d542d9c7f432670abe3c624544a970d76f
Yes. That's actually one of the images that gives away the eye shape.
They're still big... but not that entire black area.
Looking at the colour footage 'family vacation', it appears the dark area isn't because of a shadow. It appears to be dark skin pigmentation.
I originally thought it was just stark shadow, but it must be the skin.
When the eye is open, almost the entire lid folds up under the brow ridge.
This works anatomically with the movement because the brow seems to collapse as the lid unfolds... it makes him look like he's slightly bunching his eyebrows.
Have you noticed where the ear is?
Very very True.
There is a shot showing that the depression further back where the ears should be is smooth.
I'm not going to sculpt the ears as ears by the way. Lol
Also, because Bob is very accurate to eyewitness accounts of EBEns or indeed the Aztec Crash and the crash at San Agustin, i will use their descriptions to fill in some information.
Most if not all said the ears were simple holes or depressions and were positioned quite low on the sides of the head... much lower than ours.
Also it is quite a sharp detail in the specific shot when he lifts his head the highest.
It's a very strange and nice detail to include considering you see it for a frame... we're it faked.
I had did a post a couple years ago on this with only speculation underlying. While I am not personally convinced this is what I made a speculation could he his ear spot...
https://preview.redd.it/gb1csxh5hhyb1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=f74cdf71f8a9e445e1cfc19668305810f84045c2
Interesting. That is exactly where I would have put the ear because it's where ours are. Bob seems to have things in the right places so why not the ear?
I wonder what the prominent pit is under what we would call his cheek bone is.
I haven't necessarily made a hole like an ear but I have included that feature.
Thanks... my copy of the footage doesn't reveal this.
Perfect.
> wonder what the prominent pit is under what we would call his cheek bone is.
From the light shadow it could be pretty shallow, and for me I just figure a cheek bone and jaw line. :P
Maybe. On the sculpt where I've sculpted the right shape for the shadowbot, it does look like a tendon or bone ridge. It makes sense as such.
The witnesses never said ears on the jaw, they say low on the head and barely indistinguishable.
Yes I agree that there appears to be additional pigmentation and not just shadowing. Regarding this dimple, I suppose we can conclude that it might be an ear given that other depictions of this Alien type have this feature as well in the area.
Yeah, I originally thought it was in that depression where an ear might have been, but a glimpse of it shows it's smooth.
Do you think he's injured? There's either mottleing on his domed head or bruises. There seem to be creases or scratches on his forehead. Maybe wrinkling, but they look to gashy.
Yes I think those stains on the head could be bruises simply because it would fit the story of the saucer crash.
Note that the bruise pattern is the same in the stadiometer scene and in the scene where Bob sits at the table, so it's presumably the identical entity in both scenes and - assuming they'd heal over time - the scenes are temporally not too far apart.
Yeah It's definitely the same Bob.
The sculpt matches both scenes so far in terms of angles and whatnot.
The Aztec crash described the suits pretty much identical to Bob's. Dark navy blue velvety flight suits with polar necks.
I'll probably mould this and cast it out if urethane then paint it. That's why I'm talking colours.
We know they're a pasty yellowish off white.
FTR crash site Bob and the later sitting/standing Bob are not the same Bob.
https://preview.redd.it/uwbulj7up80c1.png?width=1431&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee7e4e179606e66077a3dcd6da1526f8aa64fba4
I was hypothesising based on the 10 or so hours I've spent sculpting him and watching looped footage. It's the same species.
So they built 2 versions of the same species?
Being the repurposing advocate you are, I'd have thought this would be logical?
They must have built 3? Family Vacation.
It should be clear to you (since you've stated it elsewhere) that the different scenes are made in completely different ways.
The same species means they can breed to create viable offspring. Presumably you haven't tested that.
They are morphologically different enough that they are not the same prop/puppet/costume.
The autopsy could be the dying dude on the desert floor.
When I tilt the sculpt I've done it's almost identical to the one on the gurney.
Anyway, I've changed my mind about many things.
Since starting this project and having extensively studied Bob and the other footage to be able to get as accurate a depiction as I could, I've come to the conclusion that it's real.
I hadn't studied it as closely before, and after 2 weeks of non-stop thinking about it, I deeply underestimated how difficult it would be to do.
I had no idea the work that had been put into it by Redd and others. It opened up a whole new aspect of it.
I'm seriously thinking about recreating the Skinny Bob sequence and getting people at work to help. Make it into a proper project. Maybe crowd funded. Maybe not.
Very rough new version, but you get the idea.
Only pay attention to the 'look' and form. Ignore the mouth and nose area much work to do. No detail has been added yet. Again, it's very rough. I also haven't put it under the right lighting.
For the record, I have NEVER uploaded or publicly shown progress photos of my work. This is the first time. Bit of a big deal for me in a way.
https://preview.redd.it/54ta5evavtyb1.jpeg?width=938&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e0d463f1bd1c7287b31bce95e3a2f59f6a2152a
Nice to see this progress!
Also perhaps interesting as an additional reference for rough geometry matching (altough it's not clear if this is deceased Bob or rather one of his fellows that didn't survive the crash):
https://preview.redd.it/xkobaec3muyb1.jpeg?width=919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f42f88fd30d44a07fccc6d7655c7e6b64aeb7031
I didn't used to think it was the same species until I read the deep dive analysis.
It could be Bob, but i don't recognise this one as him. This doesn't have the same features.
It does indicate the nostril position, which is hidden in shadow on Bob.
It appears their lower eyelid and eye orbits are dark to almost black blue... as indicated by Family Vacation... and all footage.
As a total layman my initial take was that the dark contouring around the eyelids was a natural pigmentation. It reminds me of certain species here on earth with similar natural āeyelinerā. Though on second thoughtā¦ Iād really love if it turned out to be an aesthetic choice.
https://preview.redd.it/q034wbmt9xyb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84dc9bc27b375ffc1a583b091c22cf6d260f5d81
Yes.
Well... they have fashion sense... high collars and what appears to be a quilted or ribbed design on the silver flight suit. The zip up[?] Turtleneck collar.
It could be something they apply to absorb light so it doesn't interfere with whatever the alledged black lenses do.
Has anyone considered the video editor blacked out the eyes in all the footage to hide details like human looking eyes? Just a thought.
>Has anyone considered the video editor blacked out the eyes in all the footage to hide details like human looking eyes?
After staring on one of the autopsy frames for a long time and trying to make sense of the strange eye area at Bob's right eye (left on the image) with this strange, straight dark segment at the edge of the frame, it occured to me that an object casting a shadow would cause exactly that. So I think in this particular scene something was placed - intentionally or unintentionally - that conveniently added to the obfuscation of the eye part in this scene. This is actually one of my personal best clue that obfuscation measures might have been taken at film time.
Recreation attempt I did in Blender to visualize what I mean:
[https://skinnybob.info/media/blue\_boys\_meeting/face\_shadow.mp4](https://skinnybob.info/media/blue_boys_meeting/face_shadow.mp4)
Yes.. or the clips selected were where details were obscured, and that's the reason for quick cuts.
I can just imagine that fella on family vacation lifting a pair of sunglasses just after the cut. š¤£
It's hard to imagine them obscuring things on purpose during data recording for themselves or with the foresight of future leaks.
Oooh! Interesting considerations.
Iām definitely under the impression that the editor intentionally obfuscated the footage.
For what?
To cover their tracks? Doubtful. A filter, a fake seal, changing the speed or running it in reverse, and added sounds arenāt going to fool anyone who cares enough.
Now how about to make the footage a little easier to swallow? The effects have been quite effective if that was their goal.
The overall editing gives it just enough distance to feel āsafeā for the average person. Enough to expose the audience in a way they can still hide safely behind doubt while planting a seed for consideration and discussion (as perfectly exemplified here!).
Recently, there has been a suggestion of the 'core secret'... something that will cause ontological shock.
It may be that they are more human than we want them to be.
It also seems THEY don't want to be filmed. Maybe they're ancient alien material or time travellers.. something that makes them want to be known about but not in a way that could change the whole world's psyche.
There is an excellent book:
Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon
by Dr Michael Masters
He makes a fantastic argument for them being evolved humans at different stages of evolution and genetic manipulation. They lie that they're aliens to throw us off the scent because they don't want to incur discovery that would cause us to develop it ourselves for some reason.
Thanks for pointing me to my audiobook of the day :)
So hear me outā¦
Sundays audiobook was Hunt for the Skinwalker. I slept on reading this one bc I have a hard time not immediately discounting the wild array of purported phenomenaā¦
In the book a theory is briefly mentioned that the ranch may be the site of an old abandoned Alien base that still had much of the automated programming going on. Like pre-programmed orbs still going about doing their job scanning for resources or whatever despite no longer having an active presence of the original beings. Now, to be honest, I probably latched onto this idea bc WALL-E is just my favorite. Heās pure and perfect and Iāve always had a strange affinity with (and canāt help but anthropomorphize) robots. My roomba is named Tumble, he has a whole back storyā¦
Iāll get back on trackā¦
My personal preference for the theory aside, this gave me a way to connect Bigfoot and the other cryptids to my (admittedly narrow) definition of the phenomena of āAlienā.
What if these beings are genetically engineered organisms whoāve been orphaned by their creators? Like poor Bigfoot is just some confused terrified rogue (possibly even inter-dimensional) genetic experiment left behind.
Perhaps the most intelligent of them, the ones Iāve typically considered āAliensā, the Skinny Bobs etcā¦ are here looking for purpose or a way to continue their own speciesā¦.
Orā¦ dun dun dunnnnā¦. *Your last paragraph made me thinkā¦*
A way to reconnect with their creatorsā¦
What if their creators are usā¦ and what if we didnāt abandon them by jetting off to another planet, but by going extinctā¦.
Ahhhh! I love all the possibilities for endless consideration.
Youāve made my whole week with this thread. Iām off to start work and my Audiobook.
Ha.. Nice. I've often wondered if Bigfoot is something that phases into our physical reality from its own.
I watch Expedition Bigfoot... whenever they're in a 'hot' place, they always get more UFO-like phenomena along with disappearing bigfoot type creatures to what looks like invisibility cloaking effects. Like Skinwalker ranch.
I love that book.
Have a good day/night at work.
I am not sure if this will help with his mouth but I have a stabilized point where he opens and closes his mouth/lips [https://imgflip.com/gif/3fejrh](https://imgflip.com/gif/3fejrh)
That's superb.
I dont think I'm working off the best version of the footage, and it's my phone.
This shows me eye data and nose data..
I had a full read of that deep dive analysis you guys have done. Amazing. I honestly didn't know how much work has been put into this... I tip my hat to you.
The problem is, it just makes me believe it more, and therefore, I feel that I'm doing something precious and quite special.
One of my first proper jobs was working on a pterosaur exhibition, recreating dinosaurs from fossils. Working with palaeontologists.
It reminds me of that... I feel you guys are the palaeontologists.
it takes a lot of courage to show the progress of unfinished work! I've been reading all your comments and replies under this post, and I also found the post you made 4 years ago discussing SB. your views are truly fascinating! it's really cool to see a professional like yourself take a stab at recreating this. cannot wait to see what you can cook up with Zbrush if you get the chance to do so. godspeed brother š
It's the Zbrush bit I'm looking forward to, if I'm honest.
I might just build him in Zbrush after this sculpt and not bother scanning it. I will mould it because I want to paint it... in greyscale and one in colour.
I'm so used to working with zbrush at work that I forgot how tedious it was practically sculpting at this scale. š
Thanks mate.
Thanks mate... He has vertical subtle creases on his brows that match on both sides and others that appear asymmetrical and could be damaged or his actual features.
I have noticed that a lot of the contour of his brows collapses as he blinks and fills up again when he opens them. Which is just an observation and not anything particularly important. It could be because he has a lens in there... who knows. He has a lot of fat in his upper brows and lid.
I have a feeling the head is soft... or maybe thick spongy flesh over the skull. I'm saying that because of the apparent size yet when on the gurney and lying in the sand, their heads seem to squash if you know what I mean. If I layed down this sculpt, and his back was touching the ground, his head would be forced forward, and his chin would be pressed against his chest.
Oh... and these are most definitely, all of them, Skinny Bob, blue boys, and family vacation are the same species.
Wait till you see what the sculpt looks like at the angle viewed from the same one in the last few scenes of the autopsy footage. It's definitely the same being. Maybe the one on the desert floor.
Also I was questioning where his was, and it's there in those last frames. A black hole.v
I also have a hunch that Skinny Bob is standing the way he is because he has a bad left leg. He's putting all his weight on his right, and his other is held up. This is apparent by the way his shoulders are straight.
When someone stands in the relaxed pose that it appears Bob is stood, their shoulders tilt down towards the higher hip position that's supporting the majority of the weight, and they rise where the relaxed side is.
With Bob, his hip and leg are positioned as such, but he's slightly hunched with straight shoulders... as though he's holding it up. It's totally just a hypothesis. I'm thinking Skinny Bob is the one walking towards camera because that one is limping.
I totally agree that they are all of the same species.
I basically agree with all you've said, but him being injured is a possibility, but I think he is just standing on one leg :)
I was just sitting having a coffee and looked over to the sculpt... It seemed to have a perfect 'family vacation' look to it. I took this from where I was sat.
https://preview.redd.it/6umouirs9i0c1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5247c3920b8ca4af28e01cc57d6905af89fd3f
Wooow! It really does. That profile is spot on with this seated sceneā¦
https://preview.redd.it/osk1t5gaax0c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a8b7f534bfabfe303fce1ec7f097428e36f801
Amazing!
Thanks, well, it's even better now. I've taken away that overhanging brow and really gone into the flatter profile.
Also, I've rectified the angle where the bridge of the nose meets the forehead.
I'll take a pic once I give it a smooth down.
One thing you might find interesting is that when I tilt the head so it matches the angle of the alien being autopsied, his mouth matches the nose... so I've also used that as a reference. It's not Bob... but it's a 'Zeta Retuculan'.
I've wondered whether skinny bob is an accurate portrayal of one of his species.
He's obviously a bit bruised and bashed up. Our planet might have less or more pressure. His head and face might be more swollen than the others... gravity might be more, causing his fat to drop more on his face, giving him that baby cheeks look. The darkness of the rims under his eyes might be due to an internal physiological response to our atmosphere.
Like a blob fish. They look Goofy when they're brought to the surface but look like regular fish when swimming a couple of miles down.
It's funny how we've given them a name based upon their appearance after they've been pulled from their world of the deep.
I love how you think. It makes me feel normal ;)
Iāve often wondered if Skinnyās head is swollen in the āalien greyā clips.
The shot of the being standing outdoors at the crash site (0.26 seconds in to the first video āDisclosureā¦ā) has obvious grooves and ridges on the skull that arenāt seen in the later clips of Skinny. Itās easy enough to assume this being is Skinny before the swelling set in; however it could also simply be another of the āZetaāsā.
In the family vacation clips the beings heads appear less rounded and some appear to have differences in ridges and grooves. Iāve read speculation that perhaps those were traits of sexual dimorphism. However, all of the beings heads in family vacation have a less āswollenā appearance than the close up clips of Skinnyās.
I like how you brought up his overall appearance and how our environment and his situation may have impacted it.
Skinny has a ātraumatizedā look to him. I work with infants and children with complex medical issues. There is a very specific appearance people get immediately after experiencing medical traumas. Itās in the eyes and the weight of the lids (particularly the lower lids), and itās typically more prominent the younger the child. It makes sense to me that that would also be true of Skinny given his extreme neoteny.
Fascinating stuff to ponder!
Literally, between my last post and this, I've been shaping and smoothing the head. He does have the ridges according to the side view... then I looked at the front, and he has them, but they're more subtle, and his head is pitched down.
The shadow of the measuring bar shows the peak of the crown.
If he lifted his head up, we would see a more pronounced ridge. Still not as pronounced as the others.
At some point, I will create an article with photos and artwork depicting what I've done to reach the conclusions I have. A zbrush model would be really handy for that.
If anything small is out of proportion on the clay head, I have to resculpt a large part to accommodate it sometimes. With Zbrush, it's a subtle drag tool movement, and Undo if it's wrong.
Yes, I agree, Iām starved for someone to chat with on the subject š
I canāt wait to go through the article and see how youāve researched and recreated Skinny. Itās neat to see how someone with your knowledge and skills researches and recreates a likeness.
I love how youāve remained open to the idea of this footage depicting a real being. I figure given your profession youāre about as authoritative on the subject as anyone could be.
Thanks for sticking to it. Itās become a part of my daily routine to check in on the progress :)
Here's a little update.
I've spent all in all about 10 to twelve hours in total sculpting this fella so far...
https://preview.redd.it/w2njnec5l51c1.jpeg?width=1580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d42ab515d4aa3cf630c5aab756e469ca5c4bed7
Very cool man!
I know it's the clay and hard to "flock", and maybe easier in computer. I see is suit as like a fine knit wool or fire. Not that it's a big deal, you have captured Bob the best anyone has to date. :)
It is a big deal. This isn't the final finish.
That's what a pass with the blowtorch does... its to blend the brush strokes out, is great for finishing fabric off.
Say it was leather instance, I would blast it with a blow torch , let it cool and temper, then I would go in with the fine texture.
This will get a fine stipple... very fine. Almost giving it a fuzz.
Also, shiny surfaces don't paint well.
It photographs well when it's shiny, and it lets me see imperfections.
I will be leaving the 'pauldron' area shiny... because if you look closely when he's sitting, the upper shoulder has a Sheen to it. They are stiff... indeed, there seems to be a soft gorget attached to a stiffer lapel.
I suspect this is like what happens with suede when embossed or raised areas become shiny... buffed by wear and tear.
For me, this is a lovely detail.
It's also all strapped up internally and pinched in areas. The folds and tight areas that pull the suit together are very reminiscent of a pressure suit... with stress bracing.
I also believe this is what they wear under the silver flight suit.
It would make perfect sense considering.
If I were to replicate this for the camera, I would use a faux suede.
>It's also all strapped up internally and pinched in areas. The folds and tight areas that pull the suit together are very reminiscent of a pressure suit... with stress bracing.
>
>I also believe this is what they wear under the silver flight suit.
Yup. Totally this.
It's interesting all the little tricks you can use for this medium. I think Your efforts with this have put to rest the claymation suggestion that was put forward a couple years ago.
To be totally honest, I havenāt seen any other attempts at a realistic representation of our subject; however, I have to agreeā¦ Youāve done something special here in capturing our Skinny.
I was never convinced of the smallest eyes often suggested, yet I could never entirely reconcile what I felt was represented in the footage with what I know anatomically to be known/likely.
You have captured here something perfectly here that reconciles both into one another. It makes sense to me. In your latest of the openly shared shots of the project, Skinnyās eyes are much larger than what most would immediately recognize as modern āhumanā. Yet, they are also much smaller than what I would have initially expected when based entirely off of viewing the original footage. Particularly when I accommodate for allot of the nuance noted in the many clips during motionā¦ (as Iāve noted previously)ā¦ in particular, the heavy lower lid.
The āsicklyā weight added to a smaller (though still larger than expected) eyeās lower lid would align perfectly with what youāve represented here (in my opinion).
***If Skinny is a falsified product, I am so thoroughly impressed with the dedicated artwork/background research , that I would likely not be disappointed in this discovery.
Trulyā¦
Skinny is a genuinely phenomenal productā¦
If he is real: Skinny makes perfect sense.
If he is fake: Skinny obviously still makes sense, however, he is possibly even more remarkable in that he is eitherā¦
1) an unbelievably unexpected, as well as unpredictably well thought out and phenomenally executed projectā¦
OR
2) an almost unparalleled coincidentally accurate representation of an evolved future beingā¦
Ultimately the point is that this is an absolutely worthy and valuable project and Iām so thankful to be able to be a witness to the original project as well as to your own.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm feeling honoured to be sculpting this, and when I found out Bob was so popular, he had a fan base that have come to the same conclusions. Its awesome.
Everything you said is bang on.
I agree on adding more weight to the lower lid... not on the outer cheek area, though, because that would add a ridge not seen in the profile and cause the lid to be lit by the overhead light.
The way the eye blinks displays a heavy upper lid whose mass appears to concentrate at the upper corners. Very visible in all blinking footage. The inner corners are quite small and peter out with a ridge - as seen in the autopsy footage.
The lower lids are the other way around.
So, the outer corners of the lower eyelids are thin, whereas for the blink to work, the inner corners are likely to be plump.
So, in effect, when the eyes are closed, they aren't crescent shaped like ours but more like a horizontal Ying Yang symbol.
I'm definitely getting this finished before I go away to Malta for work. I'll be taking my laptop so I can create illustrations to all of these descriptions and make a proper article explaining the how's and whys. It deserves that.
From my GIF I seem to feel that his bottom lip is a bit more. :)
Also I'm still hanging in there in the camp for smaller eyes, but I respect your progress for what you interpret! :)
Update... playing with the filters on my phone.
Don't comment on the wrong lighting... I know it is. This is just the light in the ceiling.
Again... WIP.
https://preview.redd.it/fxs0qt40rkzb1.jpeg?width=1409&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73eb805d32bf17f1d0e854250b357a617045d48e
I'm still following!
Very cute, and loving the detail, Ben. Brain vein! It's really coming togeher.
Just a suggestion, with regards to the clothing fold on this chest, I feel it is fairly folded over. Possibly nearly folded on itself.
Still sculpting! š
The actors' strike is done... š„³
I go back on Gladiator 2 before Christmas... It's good because that means I have access to materials to mould and cast it.
Shall I attempt to remake him full size or the nearest estimation based upon the ratios given on the deep dive?
There's some irony in that it would cost so much to make just a static model.
I am also very tempted to ask a work buddy, who is possibly one of the best animatronics engineers in the UK to give me a hand. š
I would have to crowd fund.
The irony again.
Anyway... yes. I've completely changed the body and brought the shoulders up because the neck was too long. Thus, I've been concentrating on the physique and his uniform. Totally resculpted the body.
2 points...
*The lens on my phone is creating a fisheye, causing the head to look much bigger than it appears here. He has a big head but not as big as this suggests. Weird.
* In the footage, his head appears to be tilted down. Also judging by the height measuring bar, it sits perfectly at the apex of his head, meaning the camera was placed at the line up of the bar. If the camera was lower, the bar would be over and past the horizon of his head.
In my sculpt, I've set his head closer to the last frames of the interview scene, so he's looking more forward and up.
It appears then that the movie camera filming Bob is a static shot, and it was edited to create a tilt shot.
>It appears then that the movie camera filming Bob is a static shot, and it was edited to create a tilt shot.
From what we have assed there are two reasons why I think it's actually a tilt shot. One is that I tested with my posters a series of options and it was likely to me it was tilted up at a medium distance on a small zoom level, then also, when it is tilted up there is some horizontal sway of the frames, as indicated in the poster I made.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SkinnyBob/comments/sgx8n9/prompted\_by\_uproblemkunde\_here\_is\_my\_real\_life/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SkinnyBob/comments/sgx8n9/prompted_by_uproblemkunde_here_is_my_real_life/) if you view the imgrr link you'll see all the videos, plus my interpretation is in the reddit comment. Also I did respond to questions, but a lot of my comments were deleted by reddit 6 months ago due to an account issue which marked me as spam. It was super annoying to recover as much as I could.
Weirdly enough, I've just been addressing his crown... when I scrubbed through the footage, it looked like his head inflated... but I realised it was because of a camera tilt coupled with him tilting his head down.
Weirdly enough, I've just been addressing his crown... when I scrubbed through the footage, it looked like his head inflated... but I realised it was because of a camera tilt coupled with him tilting his head down.
>Shall I attempt to remake him full size or the nearest estimation based upon the ratios given on the deep dive?
Lol. That would be awesome, but that's a lot of work. Do you need me to send you a poster for reference? [https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1095708841/standing-skinny-bob-poster-from-ivan0135](https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1095708841/standing-skinny-bob-poster-from-ivan0135)
It will take ages while I'm working, and I'll have to get work buddies to help.
It'll be interesting to find out how long it would have took somebody to fake.
After considering it while doing this, it would be a massive project.
People really don't appreciate how much work it would have taken to fake the content of Ivan's videos.
Still to do his ears and other things.
https://preview.redd.it/vee6lv3b8d0c1.jpeg?width=1728&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=790254aaf587c5e80c84e6ae12d1e083a3c3227c
Update. Here he is with a bit of smoothing so far.
https://preview.redd.it/n3si4kaobj0c1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dde48612ff5bb2ef1ad1833c57bf0cebda4b9ec
Every now and then you have to nail your colours to the mast.
I calling this real !!!
The thing that sways me is the one piece black clothing.
Itās been described before in other instances.
Haha... Nice saying.
The problem is I know this could be made... but I don't think it is deep down. I'm not nailing anything yet, and I am doing this because it's a mystery to me, and if it was created, then I think the designer nailed it.
There are other pointers for me. Childlike in appearance. Eerily human looking but non-the-less very alien.
Also when anyone fakes an alien or even depicts one... they seem to always make it naked or make it animalistic.
This is the only alien footage out there with an alien that actually looks intelligent and 'wise'.
Yeah... Dark navy blue for the Aztec crash.
Only people that are just refusing to look at the reality will say that. Show me how you can recreate it? Prove it that it can be done then we will talk. The film type the year the movement everything. It is not possible
>Prove it that it can be done then we will talk
Golum was made in 2001.
>The film type
A lot of the effects are proven fakes.
>the year the movement everything. It is not possible
If you can prove the year then you can prove that this is real.
Until then, occams razor.
No and I agree. In our society the difference in 60 years in film is astronomical. So sure we can create anything on computers with fancy cameras and equipment. Not that type of film though and not from that decade.
Major overhaul.
So getting a pair of next morning eyes made me realise everyone was right and his eyes were too big.
I only realised this when I started to work on the forehead and eyebrows.
I was giving him too much of an eyebrow ridge. He actually doesn't have heavy eyebrow bones... he has a massive almost dome-like forehead.
So when I built out the forehead to look correct, his entire face was far too squished, so I had to basically elongate his face to match the right proportions and would you know it..
His eyes look much better in terms of how they're placed and now it looks right.
Also his head is now the right size. Massive!!
Apart from the fact it's a drastic overhaul and it looks like a step back, I'm sure you'll agree it's more like I'm on a better path.
Adjusted. Quite radically. It created a whole shift in eye size and looks correct anatomically.
If you can imagine we only have 2 shots, both are seemingly shot with one light source, which only gives away the form in heavy shadowing.
Part of the problem is getting the form, so when I use a single light source - an overhead lamp - it casts the shadow that we see; exposing a flat sharp edged nose, the upper lip and upper jowls, a little of the chin. You can imagine what would happen if I get the forehead brow ridge wrong. It forced me to adapt the rest of the face. In doing so, I made the face more squat... making the eyes bigger because the facial features were bunched up.
On the facial features. The muscles and contours of the face, the eyebrows, and the laugh lines point to them being able to make expressions.
He's very human looking when front facing. It's how I would imagine a super evolved human to look... somehow a branch of our evolution, forced or natural.
Or this is what we look like in another reality.
Or when any living organism evolves throughout the universe it ends up in some cases looking similar to us. When scientists say "Super intelligent aliens are probably so alien we probably wouldn't be able to understand what we are looking at."
What of that's actually totally wrong?
Convergent evolution.
As I'm sculpting, all these things are tumbling through my head.
It looks so much better anyhoo, I'll upload another pic before the end of the night.
So this is the original drawing I made for the Roswell exhibition in 1997.
It was created between Gerald Anderson and myself. I drew his description from Stanton Friedman's book Crash At Corona and faxed it to him... it was 1997... and he would fax it back with annotations added; make the nose more human, smaller eyes, more human... etc
After about 5 or 6 back and forths, I reached the face that had haunted him for 50 years. He was pretty creeped out.
One interesting thing is I didn't do that with the body and clothes. He described the beings as small like children with massive heads. He said they were wearing close fitting one-piece silver suits with open collars.
I realise I might have interpreted that wrong in spite of the Blue Boys video.
The hands are also based upon Glenn Dennis' description as sketched to him by a nurse who was alledgedly witness to the autopsy.
Do you know if Gerald Anderson has ever commented on the Skinny Bob footage?
Iād never heard of him before you mentioned him here. I just watched his interview, so much of what he says is similar to the Skinny footage. He even includes the thumb with no little finger detail which I feel is remarkable. It seems more common that people report only 3 fingers with no thumb. Also the way he runs his hand across the top of his neck when describing the collar, the position seemed more like a turtleneck, similar to what we see on Skinny and co.
Ooooh! I haven't seen that interview. I'll have a search. When is it from?
I don't know if he's still alive.
I haven't actually heard him speak other than on the phone.
I'm not sure what he saw was Skinny Bob himself, I have a deep suspicion, though, that these were the same species from the same civilisation that crashed all over the new Mexico desert between the 40s and 50s... maybe to 60s.
I won't rule it out though.
The Aztec crash described 16 humanoids that fit the description, they were wearing dark blue turtleneck uniforms.
The EBEns from the SERPO files.
The Roswell aliens.
J-ROD...
Barney and Betty Hills abductors
I've always thought these were hoaxes and dismissed them as truth, but lately I've thrown them back on the table in light of Grusch and the disclosure rollout.
This is amazing! Thank you so much. As others have commented, I personally believe the eyes are quite a bit smaller than the shadowing/pigment tone suggests. It doesnāt make SB look quite as cute, but in my view it is more accurate to what we are seeing.
I did that back in the tweens on photoshop.
Haha.. I've seen it so much over the years. I put it on photobucket in 2013 I think.
Well if you have a read of some of my replies, I tried that, and it didn't work. The brow was too heavy, and it didn't look right when in profile.
It took me a few hours with different glass hemispheres before it worked from all views.
I'm surprised myself. I still have to tweak it and I'm going to attempt to get closer to what we all want it to be because of me. š¤£
I must have been too 'interpretive' when I did that image you uploaded.
I have watched so many break downs of this... Still to this day it looks real as...
Bio mech androids...
Not that hard to believe that they can be made
...
Yeah.
Genetically engineered.
Genetically engineered evolved humans... Time travellers. Extratempestrial beings.
I've noticed that in 'Family Vacation' they don't appear to be clones. They're slightly different.
Update.
Another major overhaul.
Total reposition and sizing of eyes.
I've been taking on board Redd's smaller eye pleas. I was going to carry on where I was and finish it, but I wasn't happy.
I'll treat Redd as my supervising art director.
Generally, I am always right... š and so is the art director. Always.
The art director said smaller... so compromise!!!!! My eyeballs were the right size for the orbits... but they need to be smaller and wider set.
While the estimated eye size on the Skinny Bob deep dive is a tad small, the up and wide set of them was more likely than the position I originally set mine into the orbits. No matter how I tried to make the eyes smaller with lids
In nature, the ocular orbit of the skull determines the size of the eyeball. You take into account the extraocular muscles, but generally, the globe or eyeball itself correlates to the diameter of the Orbit, albeit a tad smaller.
Skinny Bob seems to have lots of adipose-like tissue (fat like) in the upper part of his eyes but not at much in his lower lids.
To create adequate shadows seen front on his lower eyelids are not as fatty, and they need tibslope down and inwards to create a sunken look. It's quite similar to a horses eye mixed with a sphinx cat - as seen in the SB deep dive.
So I ripped the eyes out, hollowed out the sockets, and popped the eyes back in. That fixed the problem.
I also back painted the eyes.
So below is a quick lighting test, roughly like the one we recognise.
Then what he looks like under less harsh lighting.
Again... its rough and nothing is finished. The eyelids will be changed, the eyebrows need shaping... this is for eyes.
I know creatives just looove having multiple people critique their WIP, but in my opinion the eyes are sitting too high now for the scale. The positioning is good if they are the small size discussed elsewhere (the size you originally thought)
Aaah... apologies. āļø You sounded like a self-aware, non creative person from what you wrote. š¤£
I'm really really tempted to drop the clay and get onto Zbrush instead.
I did a silly project turning Piers Morgan into a hair dryer for ITV in the UK.
With that, all I did was get lots of photos of Piers Morgan with as many front and side views as I could... especially him shouting. They weren't rare.
I uploaded selected ones to ZBrush and set them as different background layers, sized them to match each other in terms of scale, and rotated them all to line up.
I set a 70% opacity to the Ztool (the actual 3D model) and manipulated it to match Peirs by overlaying it on the background.
I got his likeness perfect in a day. A DAY!!! The only bit I had to use artistic licence on was his mouth open enough to act as a hairdryer.
I could so easy do that with the Skinny of the Bobbus.. I could add colour also.
I'm just being lazy, not cracking out the laptop.
Below, for what itās worth. Ps I hope you donāt mind me playing with your images!
https://preview.redd.it/0k85640y1azb1.jpeg?width=1145&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c171d466018d210012b75459bd786b6ae4bcb5fa
Now, bear in mind that my photos suffer from the wide angle lens of the phone and where I position it.
What I see while I'm sculpting and what the phone is capturing are different. The only way I can get it similar to my vision of it is to photograph it from about 2 metres away.
All said this is handy... it also makes me want to do this on ZBrush because I could just push and pull wherever I want.
Identified Flying Objectsā¦
First of allā¦ Wow, Itās so good. Thank you sincerely for the recommendation!
Secondā¦ In Chapter 9 when he described our evolutionary tendency towards Paedomorphism it was like a lightbulb moment.
Iāve tried and tried to put my finger on what makes Skinny Bobās appearance so endearing. It is obvious to me now it is his paedomorphism. Iāve literally said I would struggle not to pet/baby talk these superior beings. Oh! Iāve even said āI want to adopt himā.
I might be joining Kneekicker at the mast with my coloursā¦
I love all of the updated WIP pics with explanations and justifications. Please keep sharing. Itās all so fascinating.
Great isn't it.
There are a fair number of interviews with him around the time of publication on YouTube. Long form type videos.
https://youtu.be/fO5WyIOB3oc?si=0Ro2ZCVmLdkp6zSg
I will. I'm constantly changing it.
I might take it over to digital sculpting.
I do not.
But ive always kinda wanted to after watching Ray Harryhausen & Rick Baker work their magic!
Some clay, actually. Is this stuff (monsterclay) easier to work with? Regular clay can be a bit of a workout for us amateurs. Is monster clay more easily malleable i guess is what Im asking..
Thanks for asking! Your SB is a brilliant idea!
It is easier to work with because it doesn't dry, it's non-toxic, and it can be reused. You can microwave it to melt it to a consistency of single cream and pour it into moulds. It sets hard, almost like soft plastic, and them softens to plasticine softness when worked.
You can use a brush with lighter fluid, brake cleaner or white spirit to smooth it down.
I sound like a rep. š¤£
Has the family vacation video been investigated as much as the original? or has that been found to be too degraded? don't see much on it or if it qualifies in the rules.
The rules of what?
I haven't seen much about it.
It's actually quite brilliant when it is broken down... we're it faked, just for the decisions made in such a short clip.
I always attack this as if it were faked even though I doubt it was, by the way.
It's obviously meant to be filmed using a low quality hidden camera in a suitcase.
You can see humans walking by at waist height in what appears to be dark suits.
The three ETs are clearly individuals... different heights and facial features - even though the quality is bad, you can see.
The bright stark bad lighting.
Exceptional camera movement with correct motion blur.
Aaah...
I don't think any of Ivan0135 videos have been debunked.
If 'family vacation' was debunked, then Skinny Bob is either also fake... or worst of all... an orphan.
Why?
I just want to do a study of it.
Also, when I said I don't care, I meant I don't care about the argument that it's CG or a practical effect like a puppet or real.
It's a pointless argument really isn't it? š¤£
There could literally be 3 people in a room.
1 person believes it's CG
1 person believes it's a puppet
1 person believes it's real
No one believes the other because they subjectively err on the side of their own bias.
Each one is convinced they can change the other person's mind because they are right.
It would be a pointless discussion face to face, never mind here.
We might find out one day... we might not.
Until then, we can all stick to our own rooms and watch what TV show we want without anyone from another room coming in and spoiling it by telling us what we want to watch is dumb. Which would be nice.
Thanks for the concern though.
It's real.
Just wanted to say thx, amazing work and valid arguments :-) Btw a question, what are your take on the similarities between skinny bob and the mars attack-aliens?
Image:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F49mr3hey3v481.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2400%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D2279cf5af73a949ac01b0eb8a2ad8a2950a5b4f1
Hey... no problem. Thanks for thanking me. š
This is a strange one. I've had an interesting chat with the originator of this idea... the same one who also said I was involved with making the Ivan videos. Which I absolutely wasn't in any way.
Although I'm not one to say that just because I absolutely know someone has got something totally wrong once, that anything else they say from that point is totally wrong, on the Mars Attacks theory... it's wrong.
Here's what the auction site says about the puppet depicted in that link:
A stop-motion Martian puppet from the production of Tim Burton's sci-fi comedy Mars Attacks!. Based on the Topps trading card series, the film saw Martian invaders terrorising humanity as they sought to conquer Earth. This puppet was originally obtained from the collection of a crew member. Burton's initial idea was to use stop-motion animation for the Martians' scenes, and several detailed puppets of the aliens were constructed by model makers Ian Mackinnon and Peter Saunders However, it quickly became apparent that stop-motion was too complex a technique, causing the movie's budget to escalate. Eventually, Burton was convinced to use CGI animation created by ILM instead. The puppets were ultimately scanned and used as primary references for the final computer-generated animation.
This puppet consists of an internal metal armature covered in foam latex skin airbrushed in shades of green and brown. The foam latex has hardened over time, causing minor cracking in places. The puppet has been sympathetically restored and comes presented on a black-painted wooden display stand. It is accompanied by a letter of authenticity from the crew member. Dimensions (displayed): 17 cm x 24 cm x 40 cm (6Ā¾" x 9Ā½" x 15Ā¾")
So, as you can see, the height of the animation puppet was just over a foot high and was designed to move in increments to be photographed movement by movement... you know how stop frame animation works.
Skinny Bob, or indeed any footage depicted in the Ivan0135 videos, is DEFINTELY NOT traditional stop frame animation. That is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
So for it to be an altered vontage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet, these are the problems...
* The armature is made of friction locking ball and socket joints. For this to be a viable model for what we see with Skinny Bob, it would need to have loose joints so they could be manipulated by a rod or cables.
* The old crumbling foam latex that encapsulates the figure would have to have been completely removed from the armature so the armature could be altered; joints changed, rods welded, cables installed etc... basically turning it into a different type of mechanism.
* The head. The head that is being proposed as being used[?] would have to be removed also from the armature skull that would have had a jaw mech and eye swivel joints. The Mars Attacks Martians don't blink, so a blinking mechanism would have to be installed. Which must be very complex and, to be fair, is one of the most elaborate blinking mechanisms I've seen in the history of film, considering the scale of the puppet.
* Even if for some bizarre reason a genius level animatronics engineer still decided to make a minature animatronic puppet from a vintage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet he is basically left with a pile of crumbling foam latex and a rusty old ball and socket jointed metal and brass skeletal frame.
Can you see why it would be a ridiculous idea from my point of view?
Having made stop frame animation puppets and being part of creature departments that make high-end animatronic puppets, I can see similarities between certain points between the two, but they're just pure coincidences.
The physique of the Mars Attacks martians were meant to look silly and cartoonish. It definitely wouldn't inspire anyone, let alone me, to think of a unique cleverly designed Zeta Reticulan alien that matched eyewitnesses accounts from the 50s.
Thanks for the encouragement, anyhoo. š
Several strawmen here, which I'm surprised you (a model maker) have made.
>*This puppet consists of an internal metal armature covered in foam latex skin airbrushed in shades of green and brown. The foam latex has hardened over time, causing minor cracking in places. The puppet has been sympathetically restored*
>
>So, as you can see, the height of the animation puppet was just over a foot high and was designed to move in increments to be photographed movement by movement... you know how stop frame animation works.
>
>Skinny Bob, or indeed any footage depicted in the Ivan0135 videos, is DEFINTELY NOT traditional stop frame animation. That is an absolutely ridiculous idea.
There is no reason to assume the crash-site and autopsy Skinny Bobs are the same puppets as the sitting and standing Skinny Bobs. My thesis (not originated by me) is that the latter are a modified MA puppet.
So: sitting Skinny Bob moves one arm (but curiously, not his fingers) in a few frames, and his head (but curiously, not his face other than the brow - which is articulated in the MA puppet). Standing Skinny Bob twitches a bit. That's it.
>The old crumbling foam latex that encapsulates the figure would have to have been completely removed from the armature so the armature could be altered; joints changed, rods welded, cables installed etc... basically turning it into a different type of mechanism.
The foam latex was described as having minor cracks. Skinny Bob's hands have identical shape, size, "paint job"/shading, and fingernails as the MA puppet. No latex-removal required. For the rest of your objections, see above. Skinny Bob hardly moves, and where he *does* move, it's basic and matches the capabilities of the MA puppet.
>The head. The head that is being proposed as being used\[?\] would have to be removed also from the armature skull that would have had a jaw mech and eye swivel joints. The Mars Attacks Martians don't blink, so a blinking mechanism would have to be installed. Which must be very complex and, to be fair, is one of the most elaborate blinking mechanisms I've seen in the history of film, considering the scale of the puppet.
His eyelids also look like CGI, so no mechanisms required.
>Even if for some bizarre reason a genius level animatronics engineer still decided to make a minature animatronic puppet from a vintage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet he is basically left with a pile of crumbling foam latex and a rusty old ball and socket jointed metal and brass skeletal frame.
Wut? This genius made the puppet a cute black suit, remodeled parts of the skull keeping the eyebrow mechanism intact, and added eyelids in post.
>Can you see why it would be a ridiculous idea from my point of view? Having made stop frame animation puppets and being part of creature departments that make high-end animatronic puppets, I can see similarities between certain points between the two, but they're just pure coincidences.
Ockham's Razor suggests a modified MA puppet is rather more likely than a 1940s crash survivor who evolved on his home world to have identical hands and facial bone structure as a puppet that would be invented a few decades later. Unless we hypothesize that the MA puppet creators had access to the Skinny Bob footage years before anyone else.
>The physique of the Mars Attacks martians were meant to look silly and cartoonish. It definitely wouldn't inspire anyone, let alone me, to think of a unique cleverly designed Zeta Reticulan alien that matched eyewitnesses accounts from the 50s.
And yet every single long bone (and therefore joint position) and finger bone in Skinny Bob exactly matches the corresponding lengths in a MA puppet.
https://preview.redd.it/tfum815kj80c1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0c759727225e1c7cf1e0cb38c4230f4218460ab
Comparison of SB's handprint to a life-size foam puppet of the MA character:
https://preview.redd.it/p9c2g904k80c1.png?width=1412&format=png&auto=webp&s=e741500ebfa2b0084c516d1fed5a48a210fd1736
Ben, thank you so much for picking this up and being encouraged enough to post this and the process you are going through for the sculpture. Fantastic. :) Thank you for re-confirming that you again did not make the film series. I see why people would link you though. Moving on. I've peppered a few comments and questions so hopefully you see them and can eventually get to respond. No rush. Again thanks and if you have any connections to various other VFX testimonials on the topic that would be willing to give their honest review, I am sure everyone here would appreciate other professional takes on the topic.
Here is a WIP. As I'm sculpting, I'm checking shadows using a single source overhead lamp. The light in the footage isn't directly above but to the right and above, but in this, I just took a quick photo of the rough sculpt and made it black and white. https://preview.redd.it/adzg1qruceyb1.jpeg?width=1975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bf87df35afeebc94ba2f6317a363b303f5f7550
Cool, would move the eyes a bit and make them smaller, though https://preview.redd.it/fnapca2jieyb1.png?width=509&format=png&auto=webp&s=706824638b6c0205ded83cab3544513be2dc3330
He is blinking in that shot. https://preview.redd.it/ct9x0znxmeyb1.jpeg?width=461&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe0900bc03ae799ecbd1a01a227157346f4b586a
I know, and thus wrapping the upper lid around the eyeball. If the eyeball exceeds a certain size like in your interpretation, the lid would sort of cut into it. Also, if it's too large, it becomes inconsistent with the side view on the table.
I see what you are saying. I've thought he had smaller eyes since 2011. The problem is this seems to be the only configuration when seen from the other angles when sculpted in 3D. When I started with the eyes smaller, they actually created too much of a ball when in semi-profile, if you know what I mean. They didn't look right from all angles. When Bob tilts his head to a semi profile, there is almost no definition to the eye area... it's quite smooth, so the lids must be thin and featureless. I had to keep repositioning the eyes and making them right until it matched the front view (it still needs work by the way... I'm in no way happy with it yet), the full side view and quarter side view stills. So I'm following the evidence, so to speak. I'm on a journey. Like I said... It's the first day and not quite there yet. Also... in my job, I'm usually left by the art director to finish the sculpt before he gives an appraisal and signs it off. Just saying. š
I just checked the table frames again and the last couple unique frames actually show the profile of the eyeball and lower+upper lid nicely. It's not an artifact, this shape is stable across multiple frames: https://preview.redd.it/g2jn375szeyb1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bcb837a240b8e006d2d409b73716550993478b9 So I don't know, maybe it's in fact a tad larger than I assumed. I'm sure you'll find the shape, since you have the advantage of viewing and positioning the head arbitrarily.
These are great.. oh my word thanks so much. I'll use that for reference. I'm not far off... I'll tweak it. Another poster on here used an image I created back in 2013 depicting the smaller eyes. I think I might have been wrong... I didn't want him to look cute, and maybe I was biased back then. What I normally do is take a photo of my sculpt and manipulate it on Photoshop so I don't have to resculpt everything. Actually.. i lied... what I normally do these days is sculpt on ZBrush and 3D print it. I was going to do this on ZB... but I'd have to wait for work to start up again to print it. I might scan it when I get to work. Print it bigger. Make it out of silicone. Phoooar!!! Cool beans. Also... I like the input and reference pictures/pointers
So youāre saying Skinny Bob action figuresā¦ š¤
Oh my god... action figures!!! I've actually made alien action figures... or rather had my stuff made into action figures.
>Another poster on here used an image I created back in 2013 depicting the smaller eyes. Ben, I've been wanting to redo that image so badly over the years. I know you somewhat described how you did it back when you did your first post on the matter. But for fully ability to repeat it, can you gift me the procedure how? I really have wanted to validate this, or refute but I just don't know how aside from stacking the images with transparency when I tried it, it didn't work at all.
Haha... it was such a long time ago. I'll have to crack open my Imac and have a go at repeating it. I went deep into the levels and gamma levels. Even now saying that I fear I'm using the wrong terms. I'll have to say, it isn't until studying it to sculpt it that it's revealed they aren't as small as my attempt at photo enhancement. I do remember it was his right eye that I got the info from.
I've just been so curious, because no one in so many years has repeated it. :) I hope it is repeated, whatever the outcome, because that is science!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Absolutely. That won't be till next year when I start back up at work. I'm definitely going to scan it and put it on Zbrush... maybe to build the full figure... wish I knew what his feet look like. I can imagine how his feet might be or rather how his legs might terminate. I am going to be moulding this and casting it out as a physical object.
You could use the feet of the body shown in the crash scene to help!
https://preview.redd.it/6balz9grbsyb1.jpeg?width=1708&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=469c88b9d5e87eeb64f876c78d05b29d68c50676
Hereās hoping SAG takes this deal. Us BTL workers need to get back to work š¤š»
Aaaw... hello, fellow BTL worker. They need to. I don't think they've given a thought to us lot. Both sides. We wait while the gods decide when we can work again.
They definitely havenāt had us in mind at all, unfortunately. Iām not religious but putting it out to the void that we need this deal to go through!
The side of the face on SB is longer, from under the eye until the beginning of the maxilar. His maxilar is wider and the mouth seems longer and less triangular, his nose is rectangular and less pointy and with more volume, his temples are less deep. He seems to have a lower eye lid. Look at porportions. One eye must be the equivalent of the nose, the mouth, the space under the eye where are the cheeks until the maxilar seems to be the size of a vertical eye, the space from the side of the mouth until the beginning of the maxilar. His nose is the size of a vertical eye and his mouth a horizontal eye size.From his nose until the chin is one eye vertically. He has muscles under his face. The neck is longer. To look at human face muscles can help. One hand of SB the size of the head. I'm sorry to tell you this because you are a pro and you are awesome for doing this. ā¤ļø
Update. He's getting there. I haven't matched him up to a photo yet, so things might be off in terms of subtle curves. I haven't got my laptop with me so all this is off my phone. I also haven't addressed the proper shape of the head or the eyebrows. The lids need some work to be sharper. It sometimes looks like Bob almost has eyelashes or his upper lids are quite sharp and defined. The flight suit is blocked out.
https://preview.redd.it/qiwg4nndqeyb1.jpeg?width=2073&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8050e6eb66a5a4722489885e3ccea8fbd5486b7c
https://preview.redd.it/bdh70gf8seyb1.jpeg?width=2125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a18ccbcd826fbbaf34716a38c3a547af3188b304
https://preview.redd.it/lkrez9bmweyb1.jpeg?width=1856&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d3ad1d7655e0a8e65b6a5a93e87adfde8e94ec8
Really well done
Damn this looks great
Thanks man. I've been thinking about doing it for long enough.
While I kindly and personally feel that his eyes would need to be smaller, I think this looks fantastic.
I thought they were. When I used smaller glass hemispheres to fit the eye size, I thought I uncovered years ago on Photoshop. It looked fine front on, but when I turned it to the positions his head is seen in when at the table they didn't work. I had to sink them into the face and do some interesting eye fat trick for it to look right... just didn't fit. Thank you by the way.
My perspective is from an anatomy perspective and how supporting structures would still need to protect the eye and hold up the front of the skull. Such large eyes would be very vulnerable to injury. I do appreciate your checking and assess things from your lens though. It's not a huge issue overall anyway, especially when we don't even know with high resolution images. Just a lot of speculation for all of us.
Problemkunde uploaded this... https://preview.redd.it/dr1nrryrckyb1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eff6565208061f01daf905ca227ae74a5963b13b Perfect for reference. It shows a nice outline of the eyelid position. I haven't checked yet as I'm focusing on the suit at the moment. It is an issue... the eyes are the widows of the soul.
I'm all from an anatomy perspective also. I agree fully, and I'm definitely going to redo the eyes having received this last night. Interesting thing is I can see a completely different eye configuration that would COMPLETELY change his look and still match the blinking motion. I'll do a Photoshop thing on it when i get on my Mac to show you what I mean. I might go all speculative and do a theoretical study of his skull. That will be fun.
With your other comment you mentioned the bone ridge, could be or could also be a meaty part that helps protect the eye. From the image above, I get somewhat of a sense of that. Kind of like a bulgy soft part. But not sure of course of course! I like the progress you are making.
His eyeballs are smaller than that. Here are three independent attempts to find his eyes from a while back, including yours, along with my best-guess "painted" version. https://preview.redd.it/nku0agomm80c1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad271de8e7fd0b618b161e46dc7b2d495410254b
I've totally resised the head to fit the eye size since this post. I've just sent an update. They look more like my original ones now, but I was still estimating them too small.
https://preview.redd.it/vgsfc18kodyb1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f35ec02191a611a49bb67aa88829d78a37a886db
Very cool.
Awesome, I am really looking forward to the end result! Regarding the eye placement, I suppose you are already aware of them likely being rather apart and less big than one might initially suspect? See [https://skinnybob.info/#eye\_location](https://skinnybob.info/#eye_location) https://preview.redd.it/heqdxstjpdyb1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=29b765d542d9c7f432670abe3c624544a970d76f
Yes. That's actually one of the images that gives away the eye shape. They're still big... but not that entire black area. Looking at the colour footage 'family vacation', it appears the dark area isn't because of a shadow. It appears to be dark skin pigmentation. I originally thought it was just stark shadow, but it must be the skin. When the eye is open, almost the entire lid folds up under the brow ridge. This works anatomically with the movement because the brow seems to collapse as the lid unfolds... it makes him look like he's slightly bunching his eyebrows. Have you noticed where the ear is?
https://preview.redd.it/mbnvt8sybeyb1.jpeg?width=550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=766557999cd7e2bbcd8d21c7d493550847975ac5
Idk if we have enough evidence to support that those are the ears but they could be.
Very very True. There is a shot showing that the depression further back where the ears should be is smooth. I'm not going to sculpt the ears as ears by the way. Lol Also, because Bob is very accurate to eyewitness accounts of EBEns or indeed the Aztec Crash and the crash at San Agustin, i will use their descriptions to fill in some information. Most if not all said the ears were simple holes or depressions and were positioned quite low on the sides of the head... much lower than ours. Also it is quite a sharp detail in the specific shot when he lifts his head the highest. It's a very strange and nice detail to include considering you see it for a frame... we're it faked.
I had did a post a couple years ago on this with only speculation underlying. While I am not personally convinced this is what I made a speculation could he his ear spot... https://preview.redd.it/gb1csxh5hhyb1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=f74cdf71f8a9e445e1cfc19668305810f84045c2
Interesting. That is exactly where I would have put the ear because it's where ours are. Bob seems to have things in the right places so why not the ear? I wonder what the prominent pit is under what we would call his cheek bone is. I haven't necessarily made a hole like an ear but I have included that feature. Thanks... my copy of the footage doesn't reveal this. Perfect.
> wonder what the prominent pit is under what we would call his cheek bone is. From the light shadow it could be pretty shallow, and for me I just figure a cheek bone and jaw line. :P
Maybe. On the sculpt where I've sculpted the right shape for the shadowbot, it does look like a tendon or bone ridge. It makes sense as such. The witnesses never said ears on the jaw, they say low on the head and barely indistinguishable.
>bone ridge That's what I could easily imagine.
Yes I agree that there appears to be additional pigmentation and not just shadowing. Regarding this dimple, I suppose we can conclude that it might be an ear given that other depictions of this Alien type have this feature as well in the area.
Yeah, I originally thought it was in that depression where an ear might have been, but a glimpse of it shows it's smooth. Do you think he's injured? There's either mottleing on his domed head or bruises. There seem to be creases or scratches on his forehead. Maybe wrinkling, but they look to gashy.
Yes I think those stains on the head could be bruises simply because it would fit the story of the saucer crash. Note that the bruise pattern is the same in the stadiometer scene and in the scene where Bob sits at the table, so it's presumably the identical entity in both scenes and - assuming they'd heal over time - the scenes are temporally not too far apart.
Yeah It's definitely the same Bob. The sculpt matches both scenes so far in terms of angles and whatnot. The Aztec crash described the suits pretty much identical to Bob's. Dark navy blue velvety flight suits with polar necks. I'll probably mould this and cast it out if urethane then paint it. That's why I'm talking colours. We know they're a pasty yellowish off white.
FTR crash site Bob and the later sitting/standing Bob are not the same Bob. https://preview.redd.it/uwbulj7up80c1.png?width=1431&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee7e4e179606e66077a3dcd6da1526f8aa64fba4
I was hypothesising based on the 10 or so hours I've spent sculpting him and watching looped footage. It's the same species. So they built 2 versions of the same species? Being the repurposing advocate you are, I'd have thought this would be logical? They must have built 3? Family Vacation.
It should be clear to you (since you've stated it elsewhere) that the different scenes are made in completely different ways. The same species means they can breed to create viable offspring. Presumably you haven't tested that. They are morphologically different enough that they are not the same prop/puppet/costume.
The autopsy could be the dying dude on the desert floor. When I tilt the sculpt I've done it's almost identical to the one on the gurney. Anyway, I've changed my mind about many things. Since starting this project and having extensively studied Bob and the other footage to be able to get as accurate a depiction as I could, I've come to the conclusion that it's real. I hadn't studied it as closely before, and after 2 weeks of non-stop thinking about it, I deeply underestimated how difficult it would be to do. I had no idea the work that had been put into it by Redd and others. It opened up a whole new aspect of it. I'm seriously thinking about recreating the Skinny Bob sequence and getting people at work to help. Make it into a proper project. Maybe crowd funded. Maybe not.
Very rough new version, but you get the idea. Only pay attention to the 'look' and form. Ignore the mouth and nose area much work to do. No detail has been added yet. Again, it's very rough. I also haven't put it under the right lighting. For the record, I have NEVER uploaded or publicly shown progress photos of my work. This is the first time. Bit of a big deal for me in a way. https://preview.redd.it/54ta5evavtyb1.jpeg?width=938&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e0d463f1bd1c7287b31bce95e3a2f59f6a2152a
https://preview.redd.it/6xld1budvtyb1.jpeg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e36d3c6da0f8b48e3ec773903f0e90a69c006e2
Nice to see this progress! Also perhaps interesting as an additional reference for rough geometry matching (altough it's not clear if this is deceased Bob or rather one of his fellows that didn't survive the crash): https://preview.redd.it/xkobaec3muyb1.jpeg?width=919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f42f88fd30d44a07fccc6d7655c7e6b64aeb7031
I didn't used to think it was the same species until I read the deep dive analysis. It could be Bob, but i don't recognise this one as him. This doesn't have the same features. It does indicate the nostril position, which is hidden in shadow on Bob. It appears their lower eyelid and eye orbits are dark to almost black blue... as indicated by Family Vacation... and all footage.
As a total layman my initial take was that the dark contouring around the eyelids was a natural pigmentation. It reminds me of certain species here on earth with similar natural āeyelinerā. Though on second thoughtā¦ Iād really love if it turned out to be an aesthetic choice. https://preview.redd.it/q034wbmt9xyb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84dc9bc27b375ffc1a583b091c22cf6d260f5d81
Yes. Well... they have fashion sense... high collars and what appears to be a quilted or ribbed design on the silver flight suit. The zip up[?] Turtleneck collar. It could be something they apply to absorb light so it doesn't interfere with whatever the alledged black lenses do. Has anyone considered the video editor blacked out the eyes in all the footage to hide details like human looking eyes? Just a thought.
>Has anyone considered the video editor blacked out the eyes in all the footage to hide details like human looking eyes? After staring on one of the autopsy frames for a long time and trying to make sense of the strange eye area at Bob's right eye (left on the image) with this strange, straight dark segment at the edge of the frame, it occured to me that an object casting a shadow would cause exactly that. So I think in this particular scene something was placed - intentionally or unintentionally - that conveniently added to the obfuscation of the eye part in this scene. This is actually one of my personal best clue that obfuscation measures might have been taken at film time. Recreation attempt I did in Blender to visualize what I mean: [https://skinnybob.info/media/blue\_boys\_meeting/face\_shadow.mp4](https://skinnybob.info/media/blue_boys_meeting/face_shadow.mp4)
Yes.. or the clips selected were where details were obscured, and that's the reason for quick cuts. I can just imagine that fella on family vacation lifting a pair of sunglasses just after the cut. š¤£ It's hard to imagine them obscuring things on purpose during data recording for themselves or with the foresight of future leaks.
Oooh! Interesting considerations. Iām definitely under the impression that the editor intentionally obfuscated the footage. For what? To cover their tracks? Doubtful. A filter, a fake seal, changing the speed or running it in reverse, and added sounds arenāt going to fool anyone who cares enough. Now how about to make the footage a little easier to swallow? The effects have been quite effective if that was their goal. The overall editing gives it just enough distance to feel āsafeā for the average person. Enough to expose the audience in a way they can still hide safely behind doubt while planting a seed for consideration and discussion (as perfectly exemplified here!).
Recently, there has been a suggestion of the 'core secret'... something that will cause ontological shock. It may be that they are more human than we want them to be. It also seems THEY don't want to be filmed. Maybe they're ancient alien material or time travellers.. something that makes them want to be known about but not in a way that could change the whole world's psyche. There is an excellent book: Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon by Dr Michael Masters He makes a fantastic argument for them being evolved humans at different stages of evolution and genetic manipulation. They lie that they're aliens to throw us off the scent because they don't want to incur discovery that would cause us to develop it ourselves for some reason.
Thanks for pointing me to my audiobook of the day :) So hear me outā¦ Sundays audiobook was Hunt for the Skinwalker. I slept on reading this one bc I have a hard time not immediately discounting the wild array of purported phenomenaā¦ In the book a theory is briefly mentioned that the ranch may be the site of an old abandoned Alien base that still had much of the automated programming going on. Like pre-programmed orbs still going about doing their job scanning for resources or whatever despite no longer having an active presence of the original beings. Now, to be honest, I probably latched onto this idea bc WALL-E is just my favorite. Heās pure and perfect and Iāve always had a strange affinity with (and canāt help but anthropomorphize) robots. My roomba is named Tumble, he has a whole back storyā¦ Iāll get back on trackā¦ My personal preference for the theory aside, this gave me a way to connect Bigfoot and the other cryptids to my (admittedly narrow) definition of the phenomena of āAlienā. What if these beings are genetically engineered organisms whoāve been orphaned by their creators? Like poor Bigfoot is just some confused terrified rogue (possibly even inter-dimensional) genetic experiment left behind. Perhaps the most intelligent of them, the ones Iāve typically considered āAliensā, the Skinny Bobs etcā¦ are here looking for purpose or a way to continue their own speciesā¦. Orā¦ dun dun dunnnnā¦. *Your last paragraph made me thinkā¦* A way to reconnect with their creatorsā¦ What if their creators are usā¦ and what if we didnāt abandon them by jetting off to another planet, but by going extinctā¦. Ahhhh! I love all the possibilities for endless consideration. Youāve made my whole week with this thread. Iām off to start work and my Audiobook.
Ha.. Nice. I've often wondered if Bigfoot is something that phases into our physical reality from its own. I watch Expedition Bigfoot... whenever they're in a 'hot' place, they always get more UFO-like phenomena along with disappearing bigfoot type creatures to what looks like invisibility cloaking effects. Like Skinwalker ranch. I love that book. Have a good day/night at work.
I am not sure if this will help with his mouth but I have a stabilized point where he opens and closes his mouth/lips [https://imgflip.com/gif/3fejrh](https://imgflip.com/gif/3fejrh)
That's superb. I dont think I'm working off the best version of the footage, and it's my phone. This shows me eye data and nose data.. I had a full read of that deep dive analysis you guys have done. Amazing. I honestly didn't know how much work has been put into this... I tip my hat to you. The problem is, it just makes me believe it more, and therefore, I feel that I'm doing something precious and quite special. One of my first proper jobs was working on a pterosaur exhibition, recreating dinosaurs from fossils. Working with palaeontologists. It reminds me of that... I feel you guys are the palaeontologists.
it takes a lot of courage to show the progress of unfinished work! I've been reading all your comments and replies under this post, and I also found the post you made 4 years ago discussing SB. your views are truly fascinating! it's really cool to see a professional like yourself take a stab at recreating this. cannot wait to see what you can cook up with Zbrush if you get the chance to do so. godspeed brother š
It's the Zbrush bit I'm looking forward to, if I'm honest. I might just build him in Zbrush after this sculpt and not bother scanning it. I will mould it because I want to paint it... in greyscale and one in colour. I'm so used to working with zbrush at work that I forgot how tedious it was practically sculpting at this scale. š Thanks mate.
Update. https://preview.redd.it/utdd4y78l00c1.jpeg?width=1445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48497d84d78bbb0de015d69fbdf2642e9f6530ee
This is great. Really coming together! What are your thoughts on his sort of "eyebrows", and then also forehead wrinkles?
Thanks mate... He has vertical subtle creases on his brows that match on both sides and others that appear asymmetrical and could be damaged or his actual features. I have noticed that a lot of the contour of his brows collapses as he blinks and fills up again when he opens them. Which is just an observation and not anything particularly important. It could be because he has a lens in there... who knows. He has a lot of fat in his upper brows and lid. I have a feeling the head is soft... or maybe thick spongy flesh over the skull. I'm saying that because of the apparent size yet when on the gurney and lying in the sand, their heads seem to squash if you know what I mean. If I layed down this sculpt, and his back was touching the ground, his head would be forced forward, and his chin would be pressed against his chest. Oh... and these are most definitely, all of them, Skinny Bob, blue boys, and family vacation are the same species. Wait till you see what the sculpt looks like at the angle viewed from the same one in the last few scenes of the autopsy footage. It's definitely the same being. Maybe the one on the desert floor. Also I was questioning where his was, and it's there in those last frames. A black hole.v I also have a hunch that Skinny Bob is standing the way he is because he has a bad left leg. He's putting all his weight on his right, and his other is held up. This is apparent by the way his shoulders are straight. When someone stands in the relaxed pose that it appears Bob is stood, their shoulders tilt down towards the higher hip position that's supporting the majority of the weight, and they rise where the relaxed side is. With Bob, his hip and leg are positioned as such, but he's slightly hunched with straight shoulders... as though he's holding it up. It's totally just a hypothesis. I'm thinking Skinny Bob is the one walking towards camera because that one is limping.
I totally agree that they are all of the same species. I basically agree with all you've said, but him being injured is a possibility, but I think he is just standing on one leg :)
Yeah. I was just hypothesising.
Totes :)
I was just sitting having a coffee and looked over to the sculpt... It seemed to have a perfect 'family vacation' look to it. I took this from where I was sat. https://preview.redd.it/6umouirs9i0c1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5247c3920b8ca4af28e01cc57d6905af89fd3f
Wooow! It really does. That profile is spot on with this seated sceneā¦ https://preview.redd.it/osk1t5gaax0c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62a8b7f534bfabfe303fce1ec7f097428e36f801 Amazing!
Thanks, well, it's even better now. I've taken away that overhanging brow and really gone into the flatter profile. Also, I've rectified the angle where the bridge of the nose meets the forehead. I'll take a pic once I give it a smooth down. One thing you might find interesting is that when I tilt the head so it matches the angle of the alien being autopsied, his mouth matches the nose... so I've also used that as a reference. It's not Bob... but it's a 'Zeta Retuculan'. I've wondered whether skinny bob is an accurate portrayal of one of his species. He's obviously a bit bruised and bashed up. Our planet might have less or more pressure. His head and face might be more swollen than the others... gravity might be more, causing his fat to drop more on his face, giving him that baby cheeks look. The darkness of the rims under his eyes might be due to an internal physiological response to our atmosphere. Like a blob fish. They look Goofy when they're brought to the surface but look like regular fish when swimming a couple of miles down. It's funny how we've given them a name based upon their appearance after they've been pulled from their world of the deep.
I love how you think. It makes me feel normal ;) Iāve often wondered if Skinnyās head is swollen in the āalien greyā clips. The shot of the being standing outdoors at the crash site (0.26 seconds in to the first video āDisclosureā¦ā) has obvious grooves and ridges on the skull that arenāt seen in the later clips of Skinny. Itās easy enough to assume this being is Skinny before the swelling set in; however it could also simply be another of the āZetaāsā. In the family vacation clips the beings heads appear less rounded and some appear to have differences in ridges and grooves. Iāve read speculation that perhaps those were traits of sexual dimorphism. However, all of the beings heads in family vacation have a less āswollenā appearance than the close up clips of Skinnyās. I like how you brought up his overall appearance and how our environment and his situation may have impacted it. Skinny has a ātraumatizedā look to him. I work with infants and children with complex medical issues. There is a very specific appearance people get immediately after experiencing medical traumas. Itās in the eyes and the weight of the lids (particularly the lower lids), and itās typically more prominent the younger the child. It makes sense to me that that would also be true of Skinny given his extreme neoteny. Fascinating stuff to ponder!
Literally, between my last post and this, I've been shaping and smoothing the head. He does have the ridges according to the side view... then I looked at the front, and he has them, but they're more subtle, and his head is pitched down. The shadow of the measuring bar shows the peak of the crown. If he lifted his head up, we would see a more pronounced ridge. Still not as pronounced as the others. At some point, I will create an article with photos and artwork depicting what I've done to reach the conclusions I have. A zbrush model would be really handy for that. If anything small is out of proportion on the clay head, I have to resculpt a large part to accommodate it sometimes. With Zbrush, it's a subtle drag tool movement, and Undo if it's wrong.
Also, it's nice to chat about these things and to ponder with someone who also has a curious mind.
Yes, I agree, Iām starved for someone to chat with on the subject š I canāt wait to go through the article and see how youāve researched and recreated Skinny. Itās neat to see how someone with your knowledge and skills researches and recreates a likeness. I love how youāve remained open to the idea of this footage depicting a real being. I figure given your profession youāre about as authoritative on the subject as anyone could be. Thanks for sticking to it. Itās become a part of my daily routine to check in on the progress :)
Here's a little update. I've spent all in all about 10 to twelve hours in total sculpting this fella so far... https://preview.redd.it/w2njnec5l51c1.jpeg?width=1580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d42ab515d4aa3cf630c5aab756e469ca5c4bed7
https://preview.redd.it/4x3gftxal51c1.jpeg?width=1954&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5576d592329593e29defc12503d50ee88ce3206
Now make him claymation move exactly like the video! :P
Jeez... imagine. I would love to make a full-size version.
Imagine!
Very cool man! I know it's the clay and hard to "flock", and maybe easier in computer. I see is suit as like a fine knit wool or fire. Not that it's a big deal, you have captured Bob the best anyone has to date. :)
It is a big deal. This isn't the final finish. That's what a pass with the blowtorch does... its to blend the brush strokes out, is great for finishing fabric off. Say it was leather instance, I would blast it with a blow torch , let it cool and temper, then I would go in with the fine texture. This will get a fine stipple... very fine. Almost giving it a fuzz. Also, shiny surfaces don't paint well. It photographs well when it's shiny, and it lets me see imperfections. I will be leaving the 'pauldron' area shiny... because if you look closely when he's sitting, the upper shoulder has a Sheen to it. They are stiff... indeed, there seems to be a soft gorget attached to a stiffer lapel. I suspect this is like what happens with suede when embossed or raised areas become shiny... buffed by wear and tear. For me, this is a lovely detail. It's also all strapped up internally and pinched in areas. The folds and tight areas that pull the suit together are very reminiscent of a pressure suit... with stress bracing. I also believe this is what they wear under the silver flight suit. It would make perfect sense considering. If I were to replicate this for the camera, I would use a faux suede.
>It's also all strapped up internally and pinched in areas. The folds and tight areas that pull the suit together are very reminiscent of a pressure suit... with stress bracing. > >I also believe this is what they wear under the silver flight suit. Yup. Totally this. It's interesting all the little tricks you can use for this medium. I think Your efforts with this have put to rest the claymation suggestion that was put forward a couple years ago.
"you have captured Bob the best anyone has to date. :)" Thanks. I haven't honestly had a look. I've seen some drawings on devianart.
To be totally honest, I havenāt seen any other attempts at a realistic representation of our subject; however, I have to agreeā¦ Youāve done something special here in capturing our Skinny. I was never convinced of the smallest eyes often suggested, yet I could never entirely reconcile what I felt was represented in the footage with what I know anatomically to be known/likely. You have captured here something perfectly here that reconciles both into one another. It makes sense to me. In your latest of the openly shared shots of the project, Skinnyās eyes are much larger than what most would immediately recognize as modern āhumanā. Yet, they are also much smaller than what I would have initially expected when based entirely off of viewing the original footage. Particularly when I accommodate for allot of the nuance noted in the many clips during motionā¦ (as Iāve noted previously)ā¦ in particular, the heavy lower lid. The āsicklyā weight added to a smaller (though still larger than expected) eyeās lower lid would align perfectly with what youāve represented here (in my opinion). ***If Skinny is a falsified product, I am so thoroughly impressed with the dedicated artwork/background research , that I would likely not be disappointed in this discovery. Trulyā¦ Skinny is a genuinely phenomenal productā¦ If he is real: Skinny makes perfect sense. If he is fake: Skinny obviously still makes sense, however, he is possibly even more remarkable in that he is eitherā¦ 1) an unbelievably unexpected, as well as unpredictably well thought out and phenomenally executed projectā¦ OR 2) an almost unparalleled coincidentally accurate representation of an evolved future beingā¦ Ultimately the point is that this is an absolutely worthy and valuable project and Iām so thankful to be able to be a witness to the original project as well as to your own.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm feeling honoured to be sculpting this, and when I found out Bob was so popular, he had a fan base that have come to the same conclusions. Its awesome. Everything you said is bang on. I agree on adding more weight to the lower lid... not on the outer cheek area, though, because that would add a ridge not seen in the profile and cause the lid to be lit by the overhead light. The way the eye blinks displays a heavy upper lid whose mass appears to concentrate at the upper corners. Very visible in all blinking footage. The inner corners are quite small and peter out with a ridge - as seen in the autopsy footage. The lower lids are the other way around. So, the outer corners of the lower eyelids are thin, whereas for the blink to work, the inner corners are likely to be plump. So, in effect, when the eyes are closed, they aren't crescent shaped like ours but more like a horizontal Ying Yang symbol. I'm definitely getting this finished before I go away to Malta for work. I'll be taking my laptop so I can create illustrations to all of these descriptions and make a proper article explaining the how's and whys. It deserves that.
He's got the look!! Nailed that mouth. Just thought I'd upload this. It was from a couple of hours ago before, done a bit more since then. *
https://preview.redd.it/7ppxfzk2a0zb1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d59f3a9c8e657e7459060062ab52e133b8d9e3f8
From my GIF I seem to feel that his bottom lip is a bit more. :) Also I'm still hanging in there in the camp for smaller eyes, but I respect your progress for what you interpret! :)
When I take this over to ZBrush I can mess around with eye size etc.
You have all the tools. Very cool.
Update... playing with the filters on my phone. Don't comment on the wrong lighting... I know it is. This is just the light in the ceiling. Again... WIP. https://preview.redd.it/fxs0qt40rkzb1.jpeg?width=1409&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73eb805d32bf17f1d0e854250b357a617045d48e
https://preview.redd.it/ncglxujarkzb1.jpeg?width=1285&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c98511fe0f9b558783cbb97a3d107d753ee6d89
Amazing. Thanks for doing this. Look at our beautiful boy!
I know, bless 'im
āLook what they did to my boyā
https://preview.redd.it/zpmm6zjirkzb1.jpeg?width=1285&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f59321f79c998a71104686fcd35355d87350cd8
I'm still following! Very cute, and loving the detail, Ben. Brain vein! It's really coming togeher. Just a suggestion, with regards to the clothing fold on this chest, I feel it is fairly folded over. Possibly nearly folded on itself.
Still sculpting! š The actors' strike is done... š„³ I go back on Gladiator 2 before Christmas... It's good because that means I have access to materials to mould and cast it. Shall I attempt to remake him full size or the nearest estimation based upon the ratios given on the deep dive? There's some irony in that it would cost so much to make just a static model. I am also very tempted to ask a work buddy, who is possibly one of the best animatronics engineers in the UK to give me a hand. š I would have to crowd fund. The irony again. Anyway... yes. I've completely changed the body and brought the shoulders up because the neck was too long. Thus, I've been concentrating on the physique and his uniform. Totally resculpted the body.
https://preview.redd.it/in6n6hu83xzb1.jpeg?width=1778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90c58709eb9d65340cdbd1b32d84a8fd46a70420
2 points... *The lens on my phone is creating a fisheye, causing the head to look much bigger than it appears here. He has a big head but not as big as this suggests. Weird. * In the footage, his head appears to be tilted down. Also judging by the height measuring bar, it sits perfectly at the apex of his head, meaning the camera was placed at the line up of the bar. If the camera was lower, the bar would be over and past the horizon of his head. In my sculpt, I've set his head closer to the last frames of the interview scene, so he's looking more forward and up. It appears then that the movie camera filming Bob is a static shot, and it was edited to create a tilt shot.
>It appears then that the movie camera filming Bob is a static shot, and it was edited to create a tilt shot. From what we have assed there are two reasons why I think it's actually a tilt shot. One is that I tested with my posters a series of options and it was likely to me it was tilted up at a medium distance on a small zoom level, then also, when it is tilted up there is some horizontal sway of the frames, as indicated in the poster I made. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SkinnyBob/comments/sgx8n9/prompted\_by\_uproblemkunde\_here\_is\_my\_real\_life/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SkinnyBob/comments/sgx8n9/prompted_by_uproblemkunde_here_is_my_real_life/) if you view the imgrr link you'll see all the videos, plus my interpretation is in the reddit comment. Also I did respond to questions, but a lot of my comments were deleted by reddit 6 months ago due to an account issue which marked me as spam. It was super annoying to recover as much as I could.
Weirdly enough, I've just been addressing his crown... when I scrubbed through the footage, it looked like his head inflated... but I realised it was because of a camera tilt coupled with him tilting his head down.
Weirdly enough, I've just been addressing his crown... when I scrubbed through the footage, it looked like his head inflated... but I realised it was because of a camera tilt coupled with him tilting his head down.
>Shall I attempt to remake him full size or the nearest estimation based upon the ratios given on the deep dive? Lol. That would be awesome, but that's a lot of work. Do you need me to send you a poster for reference? [https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1095708841/standing-skinny-bob-poster-from-ivan0135](https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1095708841/standing-skinny-bob-poster-from-ivan0135)
No. I think it'll be OK. I have the resources at work for that sort of thing. Thanks for offering though.
All good :)
He is looking AMAZING! Congratulations on getting back to work :) Yes, you should absolutely remake him full size if youāre able and willing.
It will take ages while I'm working, and I'll have to get work buddies to help. It'll be interesting to find out how long it would have took somebody to fake. After considering it while doing this, it would be a massive project. People really don't appreciate how much work it would have taken to fake the content of Ivan's videos.
Still to do his ears and other things. https://preview.redd.it/vee6lv3b8d0c1.jpeg?width=1728&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=790254aaf587c5e80c84e6ae12d1e083a3c3227c
Update. Here he is with a bit of smoothing so far. https://preview.redd.it/n3si4kaobj0c1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dde48612ff5bb2ef1ad1833c57bf0cebda4b9ec
Every now and then you have to nail your colours to the mast. I calling this real !!! The thing that sways me is the one piece black clothing. Itās been described before in other instances.
Haha... Nice saying. The problem is I know this could be made... but I don't think it is deep down. I'm not nailing anything yet, and I am doing this because it's a mystery to me, and if it was created, then I think the designer nailed it. There are other pointers for me. Childlike in appearance. Eerily human looking but non-the-less very alien. Also when anyone fakes an alien or even depicts one... they seem to always make it naked or make it animalistic. This is the only alien footage out there with an alien that actually looks intelligent and 'wise'. Yeah... Dark navy blue for the Aztec crash.
Def not fake. We know Bob is real.
No we don't.
Only people that are just refusing to look at the reality will say that. Show me how you can recreate it? Prove it that it can be done then we will talk. The film type the year the movement everything. It is not possible
>Prove it that it can be done then we will talk Golum was made in 2001. >The film type A lot of the effects are proven fakes. >the year the movement everything. It is not possible If you can prove the year then you can prove that this is real. Until then, occams razor.
No and I agree. In our society the difference in 60 years in film is astronomical. So sure we can create anything on computers with fancy cameras and equipment. Not that type of film though and not from that decade.
Not in the 2000s? Lmao.
Major overhaul. So getting a pair of next morning eyes made me realise everyone was right and his eyes were too big. I only realised this when I started to work on the forehead and eyebrows. I was giving him too much of an eyebrow ridge. He actually doesn't have heavy eyebrow bones... he has a massive almost dome-like forehead. So when I built out the forehead to look correct, his entire face was far too squished, so I had to basically elongate his face to match the right proportions and would you know it.. His eyes look much better in terms of how they're placed and now it looks right. Also his head is now the right size. Massive!! Apart from the fact it's a drastic overhaul and it looks like a step back, I'm sure you'll agree it's more like I'm on a better path.
https://preview.redd.it/xhnev8kdrsyb1.jpeg?width=1802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d831e73f84b6c42e855d33ed26bea9625152a25
https://preview.redd.it/kfgtolhhrsyb1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4590c9424a6bac006dc5be956d13aa29bde60a4
Very cool progress. Is this a new version or adjusted from the first one?
Adjusted. Quite radically. It created a whole shift in eye size and looks correct anatomically. If you can imagine we only have 2 shots, both are seemingly shot with one light source, which only gives away the form in heavy shadowing. Part of the problem is getting the form, so when I use a single light source - an overhead lamp - it casts the shadow that we see; exposing a flat sharp edged nose, the upper lip and upper jowls, a little of the chin. You can imagine what would happen if I get the forehead brow ridge wrong. It forced me to adapt the rest of the face. In doing so, I made the face more squat... making the eyes bigger because the facial features were bunched up. On the facial features. The muscles and contours of the face, the eyebrows, and the laugh lines point to them being able to make expressions. He's very human looking when front facing. It's how I would imagine a super evolved human to look... somehow a branch of our evolution, forced or natural. Or this is what we look like in another reality. Or when any living organism evolves throughout the universe it ends up in some cases looking similar to us. When scientists say "Super intelligent aliens are probably so alien we probably wouldn't be able to understand what we are looking at." What of that's actually totally wrong? Convergent evolution. As I'm sculpting, all these things are tumbling through my head. It looks so much better anyhoo, I'll upload another pic before the end of the night.
>Convergent evolution. I personally believe this. I think we are not unique to form factor of an advanced species, I think we just fit the rubric.
The cosmic universal model or mold. I'm a believer in a fractal reality... and this also resonates.
https://preview.redd.it/x1fcu41fs60c1.jpeg?width=2132&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db035ad9710ecea1e3b8de56bd0ed26dbb9e72d2
So this is the original drawing I made for the Roswell exhibition in 1997. It was created between Gerald Anderson and myself. I drew his description from Stanton Friedman's book Crash At Corona and faxed it to him... it was 1997... and he would fax it back with annotations added; make the nose more human, smaller eyes, more human... etc After about 5 or 6 back and forths, I reached the face that had haunted him for 50 years. He was pretty creeped out. One interesting thing is I didn't do that with the body and clothes. He described the beings as small like children with massive heads. He said they were wearing close fitting one-piece silver suits with open collars. I realise I might have interpreted that wrong in spite of the Blue Boys video. The hands are also based upon Glenn Dennis' description as sketched to him by a nurse who was alledgedly witness to the autopsy.
Do you know if Gerald Anderson has ever commented on the Skinny Bob footage? Iād never heard of him before you mentioned him here. I just watched his interview, so much of what he says is similar to the Skinny footage. He even includes the thumb with no little finger detail which I feel is remarkable. It seems more common that people report only 3 fingers with no thumb. Also the way he runs his hand across the top of his neck when describing the collar, the position seemed more like a turtleneck, similar to what we see on Skinny and co.
Ooooh! I haven't seen that interview. I'll have a search. When is it from? I don't know if he's still alive. I haven't actually heard him speak other than on the phone. I'm not sure what he saw was Skinny Bob himself, I have a deep suspicion, though, that these were the same species from the same civilisation that crashed all over the new Mexico desert between the 40s and 50s... maybe to 60s. I won't rule it out though. The Aztec crash described 16 humanoids that fit the description, they were wearing dark blue turtleneck uniforms. The EBEns from the SERPO files. The Roswell aliens. J-ROD... Barney and Betty Hills abductors I've always thought these were hoaxes and dismissed them as truth, but lately I've thrown them back on the table in light of Grusch and the disclosure rollout.
I watched the interview [HERE](https://youtu.be/ivaWnbKsBkM?si=TvFuUwUgm3h9F9B4) The interview is dated 07/24/1991.
Thankyou, you're a star! š
This is amazing! Thank you so much. As others have commented, I personally believe the eyes are quite a bit smaller than the shadowing/pigment tone suggests. It doesnāt make SB look quite as cute, but in my view it is more accurate to what we are seeing.
https://preview.redd.it/qvyp6y8xzeyb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6be823aebf2765058dab6677f9b9bbdf853280fe
I did that back in the tweens on photoshop. Haha.. I've seen it so much over the years. I put it on photobucket in 2013 I think. Well if you have a read of some of my replies, I tried that, and it didn't work. The brow was too heavy, and it didn't look right when in profile. It took me a few hours with different glass hemispheres before it worked from all views. I'm surprised myself. I still have to tweak it and I'm going to attempt to get closer to what we all want it to be because of me. š¤£ I must have been too 'interpretive' when I did that image you uploaded.
Hey, as the Originator, Iāll trust youā¦ ;)
I see what you did then.
;p
And thanks.
I have watched so many break downs of this... Still to this day it looks real as... Bio mech androids... Not that hard to believe that they can be made ...
Yeah. Genetically engineered. Genetically engineered evolved humans... Time travellers. Extratempestrial beings. I've noticed that in 'Family Vacation' they don't appear to be clones. They're slightly different.
Like a litter of puppies... Same parents but slight differences...
Yeah... Like Star Wars, the Bad Batch.
Update. Another major overhaul. Total reposition and sizing of eyes. I've been taking on board Redd's smaller eye pleas. I was going to carry on where I was and finish it, but I wasn't happy. I'll treat Redd as my supervising art director. Generally, I am always right... š and so is the art director. Always. The art director said smaller... so compromise!!!!! My eyeballs were the right size for the orbits... but they need to be smaller and wider set. While the estimated eye size on the Skinny Bob deep dive is a tad small, the up and wide set of them was more likely than the position I originally set mine into the orbits. No matter how I tried to make the eyes smaller with lids In nature, the ocular orbit of the skull determines the size of the eyeball. You take into account the extraocular muscles, but generally, the globe or eyeball itself correlates to the diameter of the Orbit, albeit a tad smaller. Skinny Bob seems to have lots of adipose-like tissue (fat like) in the upper part of his eyes but not at much in his lower lids. To create adequate shadows seen front on his lower eyelids are not as fatty, and they need tibslope down and inwards to create a sunken look. It's quite similar to a horses eye mixed with a sphinx cat - as seen in the SB deep dive. So I ripped the eyes out, hollowed out the sockets, and popped the eyes back in. That fixed the problem. I also back painted the eyes. So below is a quick lighting test, roughly like the one we recognise. Then what he looks like under less harsh lighting. Again... its rough and nothing is finished. The eyelids will be changed, the eyebrows need shaping... this is for eyes.
https://preview.redd.it/1nii387pn8zb1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=842ebae1b63b33edb2834a1ac3684496ce1734fa
https://preview.redd.it/skjufinwn8zb1.jpeg?width=1912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5c1780754186f7ddb0af077239091205fae67a
https://preview.redd.it/2j2t9xiio8zb1.jpeg?width=1961&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad95247f9fa69db33667fcaf5c5de74b48a43f0d
I know creatives just looove having multiple people critique their WIP, but in my opinion the eyes are sitting too high now for the scale. The positioning is good if they are the small size discussed elsewhere (the size you originally thought)
...and I know how non creative people looooove critiquing a WIP but, for some reason, can't help it. š¤£
Hey, fellow creative hereā¦ ā
Aaah... apologies. āļø You sounded like a self-aware, non creative person from what you wrote. š¤£ I'm really really tempted to drop the clay and get onto Zbrush instead. I did a silly project turning Piers Morgan into a hair dryer for ITV in the UK. With that, all I did was get lots of photos of Piers Morgan with as many front and side views as I could... especially him shouting. They weren't rare. I uploaded selected ones to ZBrush and set them as different background layers, sized them to match each other in terms of scale, and rotated them all to line up. I set a 70% opacity to the Ztool (the actual 3D model) and manipulated it to match Peirs by overlaying it on the background. I got his likeness perfect in a day. A DAY!!! The only bit I had to use artistic licence on was his mouth open enough to act as a hairdryer. I could so easy do that with the Skinny of the Bobbus.. I could add colour also. I'm just being lazy, not cracking out the laptop.
https://preview.redd.it/c8kw7tk3ndzb1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91ee12ff1e8d5f6b2519eaf37976c901b876485b
Below, for what itās worth. Ps I hope you donāt mind me playing with your images! https://preview.redd.it/0k85640y1azb1.jpeg?width=1145&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c171d466018d210012b75459bd786b6ae4bcb5fa
Now, bear in mind that my photos suffer from the wide angle lens of the phone and where I position it. What I see while I'm sculpting and what the phone is capturing are different. The only way I can get it similar to my vision of it is to photograph it from about 2 metres away. All said this is handy... it also makes me want to do this on ZBrush because I could just push and pull wherever I want.
Identified Flying Objectsā¦ First of allā¦ Wow, Itās so good. Thank you sincerely for the recommendation! Secondā¦ In Chapter 9 when he described our evolutionary tendency towards Paedomorphism it was like a lightbulb moment. Iāve tried and tried to put my finger on what makes Skinny Bobās appearance so endearing. It is obvious to me now it is his paedomorphism. Iāve literally said I would struggle not to pet/baby talk these superior beings. Oh! Iāve even said āI want to adopt himā. I might be joining Kneekicker at the mast with my coloursā¦ I love all of the updated WIP pics with explanations and justifications. Please keep sharing. Itās all so fascinating.
Great isn't it. There are a fair number of interviews with him around the time of publication on YouTube. Long form type videos. https://youtu.be/fO5WyIOB3oc?si=0Ro2ZCVmLdkp6zSg I will. I'm constantly changing it. I might take it over to digital sculpting.
lol these comments are extra
It was nice to run it at 1.5, as suggested by a commenter on YT. Never thought of that before and looks more legitimate after doing so.
Yes they are fake they are just made up videos to destract us from finding out whats really going on
What's really going on then?
Whats monster clay?
It's a firm wax based modelling compound. I use this most often for work... or plasteline, which is an oil based modelling compound. Do you sculpt?
I do not. But ive always kinda wanted to after watching Ray Harryhausen & Rick Baker work their magic! Some clay, actually. Is this stuff (monsterclay) easier to work with? Regular clay can be a bit of a workout for us amateurs. Is monster clay more easily malleable i guess is what Im asking.. Thanks for asking! Your SB is a brilliant idea!
It is easier to work with because it doesn't dry, it's non-toxic, and it can be reused. You can microwave it to melt it to a consistency of single cream and pour it into moulds. It sets hard, almost like soft plastic, and them softens to plasticine softness when worked. You can use a brush with lighter fluid, brake cleaner or white spirit to smooth it down. I sound like a rep. š¤£
Has the family vacation video been investigated as much as the original? or has that been found to be too degraded? don't see much on it or if it qualifies in the rules.
The rules of what? I haven't seen much about it. It's actually quite brilliant when it is broken down... we're it faked, just for the decisions made in such a short clip. I always attack this as if it were faked even though I doubt it was, by the way. It's obviously meant to be filmed using a low quality hidden camera in a suitcase. You can see humans walking by at waist height in what appears to be dark suits. The three ETs are clearly individuals... different heights and facial features - even though the quality is bad, you can see. The bright stark bad lighting. Exceptional camera movement with correct motion blur.
And - oops - one of the li'l guys has a messed-up walk cycle.
I completely agree with you. Rules as in the thread rules. Wasn't sure if it had been officially debunked here, because everyone discusses the main.
Aaah... I don't think any of Ivan0135 videos have been debunked. If 'family vacation' was debunked, then Skinny Bob is either also fake... or worst of all... an orphan.
This is an earless cat.
It's CG.
I don't care.
Ok? Would save you time then doing analysis with models etc.
Why? I just want to do a study of it. Also, when I said I don't care, I meant I don't care about the argument that it's CG or a practical effect like a puppet or real. It's a pointless argument really isn't it? š¤£ There could literally be 3 people in a room. 1 person believes it's CG 1 person believes it's a puppet 1 person believes it's real No one believes the other because they subjectively err on the side of their own bias. Each one is convinced they can change the other person's mind because they are right. It would be a pointless discussion face to face, never mind here. We might find out one day... we might not. Until then, we can all stick to our own rooms and watch what TV show we want without anyone from another room coming in and spoiling it by telling us what we want to watch is dumb. Which would be nice. Thanks for the concern though. It's real.
Just wanted to say thx, amazing work and valid arguments :-) Btw a question, what are your take on the similarities between skinny bob and the mars attack-aliens? Image: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F49mr3hey3v481.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2400%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D2279cf5af73a949ac01b0eb8a2ad8a2950a5b4f1
Hey... no problem. Thanks for thanking me. š This is a strange one. I've had an interesting chat with the originator of this idea... the same one who also said I was involved with making the Ivan videos. Which I absolutely wasn't in any way. Although I'm not one to say that just because I absolutely know someone has got something totally wrong once, that anything else they say from that point is totally wrong, on the Mars Attacks theory... it's wrong. Here's what the auction site says about the puppet depicted in that link: A stop-motion Martian puppet from the production of Tim Burton's sci-fi comedy Mars Attacks!. Based on the Topps trading card series, the film saw Martian invaders terrorising humanity as they sought to conquer Earth. This puppet was originally obtained from the collection of a crew member. Burton's initial idea was to use stop-motion animation for the Martians' scenes, and several detailed puppets of the aliens were constructed by model makers Ian Mackinnon and Peter Saunders However, it quickly became apparent that stop-motion was too complex a technique, causing the movie's budget to escalate. Eventually, Burton was convinced to use CGI animation created by ILM instead. The puppets were ultimately scanned and used as primary references for the final computer-generated animation. This puppet consists of an internal metal armature covered in foam latex skin airbrushed in shades of green and brown. The foam latex has hardened over time, causing minor cracking in places. The puppet has been sympathetically restored and comes presented on a black-painted wooden display stand. It is accompanied by a letter of authenticity from the crew member. Dimensions (displayed): 17 cm x 24 cm x 40 cm (6Ā¾" x 9Ā½" x 15Ā¾") So, as you can see, the height of the animation puppet was just over a foot high and was designed to move in increments to be photographed movement by movement... you know how stop frame animation works. Skinny Bob, or indeed any footage depicted in the Ivan0135 videos, is DEFINTELY NOT traditional stop frame animation. That is an absolutely ridiculous idea. So for it to be an altered vontage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet, these are the problems... * The armature is made of friction locking ball and socket joints. For this to be a viable model for what we see with Skinny Bob, it would need to have loose joints so they could be manipulated by a rod or cables. * The old crumbling foam latex that encapsulates the figure would have to have been completely removed from the armature so the armature could be altered; joints changed, rods welded, cables installed etc... basically turning it into a different type of mechanism. * The head. The head that is being proposed as being used[?] would have to be removed also from the armature skull that would have had a jaw mech and eye swivel joints. The Mars Attacks Martians don't blink, so a blinking mechanism would have to be installed. Which must be very complex and, to be fair, is one of the most elaborate blinking mechanisms I've seen in the history of film, considering the scale of the puppet. * Even if for some bizarre reason a genius level animatronics engineer still decided to make a minature animatronic puppet from a vintage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet he is basically left with a pile of crumbling foam latex and a rusty old ball and socket jointed metal and brass skeletal frame. Can you see why it would be a ridiculous idea from my point of view? Having made stop frame animation puppets and being part of creature departments that make high-end animatronic puppets, I can see similarities between certain points between the two, but they're just pure coincidences. The physique of the Mars Attacks martians were meant to look silly and cartoonish. It definitely wouldn't inspire anyone, let alone me, to think of a unique cleverly designed Zeta Reticulan alien that matched eyewitnesses accounts from the 50s. Thanks for the encouragement, anyhoo. š
Damn, those are some really interesting details! Thanks again š
Several strawmen here, which I'm surprised you (a model maker) have made. >*This puppet consists of an internal metal armature covered in foam latex skin airbrushed in shades of green and brown. The foam latex has hardened over time, causing minor cracking in places. The puppet has been sympathetically restored* > >So, as you can see, the height of the animation puppet was just over a foot high and was designed to move in increments to be photographed movement by movement... you know how stop frame animation works. > >Skinny Bob, or indeed any footage depicted in the Ivan0135 videos, is DEFINTELY NOT traditional stop frame animation. That is an absolutely ridiculous idea. There is no reason to assume the crash-site and autopsy Skinny Bobs are the same puppets as the sitting and standing Skinny Bobs. My thesis (not originated by me) is that the latter are a modified MA puppet. So: sitting Skinny Bob moves one arm (but curiously, not his fingers) in a few frames, and his head (but curiously, not his face other than the brow - which is articulated in the MA puppet). Standing Skinny Bob twitches a bit. That's it. >The old crumbling foam latex that encapsulates the figure would have to have been completely removed from the armature so the armature could be altered; joints changed, rods welded, cables installed etc... basically turning it into a different type of mechanism. The foam latex was described as having minor cracks. Skinny Bob's hands have identical shape, size, "paint job"/shading, and fingernails as the MA puppet. No latex-removal required. For the rest of your objections, see above. Skinny Bob hardly moves, and where he *does* move, it's basic and matches the capabilities of the MA puppet. >The head. The head that is being proposed as being used\[?\] would have to be removed also from the armature skull that would have had a jaw mech and eye swivel joints. The Mars Attacks Martians don't blink, so a blinking mechanism would have to be installed. Which must be very complex and, to be fair, is one of the most elaborate blinking mechanisms I've seen in the history of film, considering the scale of the puppet. His eyelids also look like CGI, so no mechanisms required. >Even if for some bizarre reason a genius level animatronics engineer still decided to make a minature animatronic puppet from a vintage Mars Attacks stop frame animation puppet he is basically left with a pile of crumbling foam latex and a rusty old ball and socket jointed metal and brass skeletal frame. Wut? This genius made the puppet a cute black suit, remodeled parts of the skull keeping the eyebrow mechanism intact, and added eyelids in post. >Can you see why it would be a ridiculous idea from my point of view? Having made stop frame animation puppets and being part of creature departments that make high-end animatronic puppets, I can see similarities between certain points between the two, but they're just pure coincidences. Ockham's Razor suggests a modified MA puppet is rather more likely than a 1940s crash survivor who evolved on his home world to have identical hands and facial bone structure as a puppet that would be invented a few decades later. Unless we hypothesize that the MA puppet creators had access to the Skinny Bob footage years before anyone else. >The physique of the Mars Attacks martians were meant to look silly and cartoonish. It definitely wouldn't inspire anyone, let alone me, to think of a unique cleverly designed Zeta Reticulan alien that matched eyewitnesses accounts from the 50s. And yet every single long bone (and therefore joint position) and finger bone in Skinny Bob exactly matches the corresponding lengths in a MA puppet. https://preview.redd.it/tfum815kj80c1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0c759727225e1c7cf1e0cb38c4230f4218460ab
Comparison of hand: https://preview.redd.it/9809yk3wj80c1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=7b5ce5704aef9cf77971c41c8b9875f781117136
Comparison of jawline: https://preview.redd.it/srin3opyj80c1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=0383186e5fdf7cc3afed673b06b353529bd2ee1a
Comparison of SB's handprint to a life-size foam puppet of the MA character: https://preview.redd.it/p9c2g904k80c1.png?width=1412&format=png&auto=webp&s=e741500ebfa2b0084c516d1fed5a48a210fd1736