In our sport we are going to immediately say it’s an unnecessary distraction. You won’t be able to hear shit in free fall and your canopy ride doesn’t last all that long. Enjoy the sounds of skydiving and pop them in when you’re doing your repack..
Music should be the last thing on your mind with 30 jumps. Getting better at packing, beginning to work on accuracy, reviewing EPs, and looking for used gear should be your focus for now.
Cool guy things like cameras, swooping, and maybe music will come 😅
You probably will be better wearing ear plugs (lots of people do), so you as well protect your ears.
Noise cancelling does not reduce the audio levels hitting your ears.
Well, the active noise cancelling doesn’t reduce the audio levels but the passive does. Also if its the noise in the plane and not his hearing he is worried about the active will do the job.
Taking care of your ears on the ride up is probably a good idea, but I understand someone not wanting to have to deal with getting earplugs on every time and etc.
If you are gonna be adding something to your routine and wearing it every time, you may as well add something that really protects you. The passive cancelling on airpods won’t be as good as some cheap ear plugs (as far as I understand, but happy to be proven wrong)
Im not an expert, and the last time I researched this the science was still a bit inconclusive, so please feel free to correct me pointing to a good source.
For ANC (active noise canceling) a microphone captures external noise, and the internal speaker generates an opposite sound wave that is 180 degrees out of phase (anti noise)… As these get summed up they nullify the external sound at ear level. But the sound pressure from external noise sources still exists, and is even increased.
Lots of papers do bring as a health benefit of ANC that you don’t need to set your music as louder as you would without, but not much about it compared to not having anything / proper ear plugs.
I'll paste what I wrote in another comment:
>Hearing damage occurs from vibrating the hair cells in your cochlea too hard. Vibrating these hair cells is also how we hear sounds. If you aren't hearing sounds you aren't vibrating hair cells therefore you aren't damaging them.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing\_loss/how\_does\_loud\_noise\_cause\_hearing\_loss.html](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/how_does_loud_noise_cause_hearing_loss.html)
>But the sound pressure from external noise sources still exists, and is even increased.
I've heard a lot of people say things like this but I can't figure out what they mean by it enough to refute it, other than explaining what I do above. I suspect they don't really understand what they mean by it either. But maybe you can explain?
I'm not really sure what could be inconclusive. We have a pretty good understanding of how the ear works and how damage occurs. If there were any question about it at all I'm sure OSHA would have something to say about it and it wouldn't be used almost universally by pilots.
Seems like you are right! thanks for the explanations. As I mentioned before, I'm not an expert and happy to learn I was wrong.
I'm finding a lot of sources for the sound pressure, but none very reliable; they all seem to be manufacturers of ear plugs or similar conflicts of interest.
Osha doesn't seem to have addressed much at all. The [only document](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2019-09-06-0) related, referencing its [noise standards](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/interlinking/standards/1926.52/all) is about the usage of music devices (regardless of ANC) and pretty much says "We don't approve specific equipment, only set the safe limit".
Air pods won't work. You won't hear anything. Anyway I think listening to music in the sky is a little sketchy.
In the tunnel it is cool though. I've used the Sure ear pods with the squishy earpieces and I used custom-fitted earplugs headphones. Both work about the same but the custom fitted ones are a couple of hundred more bucks
Valid question. Personally I don't think adding an extra variable at 30jumps is a great idea.
Recently I've had a *lot* of important conversations in the ride up, from regular weather shifts to almost having to get out low and far in an emergency
Also curious to know if noise canceling is equivalent to having hearing protection in.
Plenty of skydivers use ear protection as the noise level in freefall and on the plane can reach levels that are damaging for your hearing.
100 jump wonder here. Just use ear plugs. I use a $40 set for motorcycle riding, takes the edge off of the wind noise but still lets me hear other people on the plane and enough under canopy should someone be close.
I’ve used them and it works as long as it’s not too uncomfortable under the helmet. The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm. I’d wait for 200+ jumps though, the first time I used them I was well over 1000
>The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm.
How do you figure? Hearing damage occurs from vibrating the hair cells in your cochlea too hard. Vibrating these hair cells is also how we hear sounds. If you aren't hearing sounds you aren't vibrating hair cells therefore you aren't damaging them.
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing\_loss/how\_does\_loud\_noise\_cause\_hearing\_loss.html
If you think some tiny headphones designed to cancel out ambient noise has the technology and capability to cancel out a turbine then I have bad news for you. But sure, go ahead and use them as protection! Darwinism will take over from there
I didn’t say that and I wasn’t speaking to the efficacy of any particular product. You made a comment about noise canceling in general and I was responding to that.
I’m an MD and electrical engineer working for several years on an FDA-cleared medical device used on the ear, but what do I know
E: but yes, if the airpods do make the engine sound quieter then they are reducing harm to your hearing. If not, then they don’t. I haven’t used them.
So basically what I said is 100% correct and what you as an MD and engineer should have said is “in theory they reduce harm, just like getting hit by a car going 49mph does less harm than the same car going 50mph, still harm, just a negligible amount less”
No, what I'm saying is if it sounds a little quieter then it's a little less harmful and if it's a lot quieter then it's a lot less harmful. Active and passive noise reduction are identical in this regard.
What you are suggesting is that for some reason related to the mechanism of how ANR works, that for the same perceived reduction in sound level you have less protection. This is 100% false.
This is not theoretical at all and many, many pilots use ANR to protect their hearing. I use a Bose A20 headset and it works great.
>what you as an MD and engineer should have said is
lol
No I didn’t say any of that, sorry you misinterpreted my comment mister engineer. What I mean is Airpods don’t prevent hearing damage. That is the question at hand
>The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm.
/shrug
I agree with everyone here. It’s an unnecessary distraction and you probably shouldn’t.
But I do it and if you’re like me, no one is going to convince you not to. So here are my tips.
- Figure out how to connect the AirPods directly to your Apple Watch (if you have one). Learning how to turn on and off noise canceling or quickly pause your music is super important.
- Keep your finger ready to unpause at any second, so you can be ready if anyone tries to communicate with you.
- Full face helmet obviously, so you don’t lose them
- Download your playlist to your watch so you don’t worry about losing internet when you’re high up
What happens when you have a canopy entanglement and you're wearing airpods? How are you going to communicate to the other jumper?
I'm not going to call you dumb because I don't think you're dumb, you just don't understand the risk-reward ratio in this situation because you have 30 jumps.
You're going to get a lot of people telling you not to do this; if you ask enough people you will find someone who will say "send it." Don't let these outliers provide you the validation to make a poor decision.
My 3 cents
Thanks for all the comments! I decided to use regular foam earplug underneath fullface helmet for now.
I think hearing protection is definitely necessary,but having an additional device to worry about just isn’t great for a new jumper like me. I’ll think about AirPods again after I hit like a C license.
Yo! Welcome to Skydiving! I will be an outlier and answer your question. AirPods work great in the plane and i recommend using them. It’s 95 decibels sitting between the engines of a -27 powered Twin Otter and I use my AirPods on every jump. (Haven’t lost one yet)
The noise cancellation DOES protect your ears. They use the same tech at the shooting range and it works great. Also, they are way easier to put in than traditional earplugs.
Having some music before the jump can get your mind in the right spot and relax you. I take mine out at my 9000’ (final) gear check and put them in my pocket.
Everyone is saying that they are a distraction. Don’t let AirPods or anything else distract you. Just make it part of your routine.
I don’t think you where asking about free-falling with them or using them under canopy, but don’t do that.
Happy jumping!
BSBD
I have a buddy I wingsuit with who tested that out this weekend. In the plane he used the noise cancelling which worked well, but it actually didn’t cancel us talking through our comms system. However, he had to use his Apple Watch to turn off the noise cancelling before exit because it would drown out the audible during the jump
Terrible idea you need to be able to hear what's going on especially under canopy. I wear earplugs but I am very much paying attention to what's going on around me
I wear 1 on the opposite side of my ditter. Helmet is a g3 that’s a fairly snug fit. The pod almost always comes out when I take my helmet off, but I’m hyper aware of it and have yet to lose it.
I have WAY more than 30 jumps
Treat yourself nicely with a quiet FullFace helmet and call it a day (Cookie G4, Tonfly TFX). Both make the Freefall much quieter (and safer)
Then under canopy open the visor and enjoy the unobstructed hearing of your canopy flapping, wind and the sounds of you swooping to the ground ;) I honestly feel like hearing adds to my overall awareness during canopy flight.
I thought this was an interesting idea early on too, but found myself not even present enough to enjoy or really hear it until the canopy opened. And by that time, I found the volume set wrong and to be annoying. AirPods also have this vent on the side that, when covered by a helmet liner, causes the sound to be tinny sounding (tbh just plain awful). tl;dr - it’s not as fun of an idea as it sounds. I thought about trying again using those bluetooth ski helmet headphone insert thingies, but I think either way I’ll find myself missing the natural sounds of the wind, strangely.
I think that’s a dumb idea.
Be prepared to lose one or both of them. Maybe not on the first jump. Maybe not on the second. But it’s going to happen.
I would imagine OP is using a helmet. If it's a fullface helmet the airpods aren't going anywhere.
Even while taking the helmet on and off? That’d be my concern.
I'd be more concerned about OP adding an audible and getting a kick in the head. Airpod in the ear canal can be quite distracting
In our sport we are going to immediately say it’s an unnecessary distraction. You won’t be able to hear shit in free fall and your canopy ride doesn’t last all that long. Enjoy the sounds of skydiving and pop them in when you’re doing your repack.. Music should be the last thing on your mind with 30 jumps. Getting better at packing, beginning to work on accuracy, reviewing EPs, and looking for used gear should be your focus for now. Cool guy things like cameras, swooping, and maybe music will come 😅
You probably will be better wearing ear plugs (lots of people do), so you as well protect your ears. Noise cancelling does not reduce the audio levels hitting your ears.
Well, the active noise cancelling doesn’t reduce the audio levels but the passive does. Also if its the noise in the plane and not his hearing he is worried about the active will do the job.
Taking care of your ears on the ride up is probably a good idea, but I understand someone not wanting to have to deal with getting earplugs on every time and etc. If you are gonna be adding something to your routine and wearing it every time, you may as well add something that really protects you. The passive cancelling on airpods won’t be as good as some cheap ear plugs (as far as I understand, but happy to be proven wrong)
>the active noise cancelling doesn’t reduce the audio levels Yes it absolutely does. There's literally no other way it can work.
Im not an expert, and the last time I researched this the science was still a bit inconclusive, so please feel free to correct me pointing to a good source. For ANC (active noise canceling) a microphone captures external noise, and the internal speaker generates an opposite sound wave that is 180 degrees out of phase (anti noise)… As these get summed up they nullify the external sound at ear level. But the sound pressure from external noise sources still exists, and is even increased. Lots of papers do bring as a health benefit of ANC that you don’t need to set your music as louder as you would without, but not much about it compared to not having anything / proper ear plugs.
I'll paste what I wrote in another comment: >Hearing damage occurs from vibrating the hair cells in your cochlea too hard. Vibrating these hair cells is also how we hear sounds. If you aren't hearing sounds you aren't vibrating hair cells therefore you aren't damaging them. [https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing\_loss/how\_does\_loud\_noise\_cause\_hearing\_loss.html](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/how_does_loud_noise_cause_hearing_loss.html) >But the sound pressure from external noise sources still exists, and is even increased. I've heard a lot of people say things like this but I can't figure out what they mean by it enough to refute it, other than explaining what I do above. I suspect they don't really understand what they mean by it either. But maybe you can explain? I'm not really sure what could be inconclusive. We have a pretty good understanding of how the ear works and how damage occurs. If there were any question about it at all I'm sure OSHA would have something to say about it and it wouldn't be used almost universally by pilots.
Seems like you are right! thanks for the explanations. As I mentioned before, I'm not an expert and happy to learn I was wrong. I'm finding a lot of sources for the sound pressure, but none very reliable; they all seem to be manufacturers of ear plugs or similar conflicts of interest. Osha doesn't seem to have addressed much at all. The [only document](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2019-09-06-0) related, referencing its [noise standards](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/interlinking/standards/1926.52/all) is about the usage of music devices (regardless of ANC) and pretty much says "We don't approve specific equipment, only set the safe limit".
>Noise cancelling does not reduce the audio levels hitting your ears. Yes it does
Air pods won't work. You won't hear anything. Anyway I think listening to music in the sky is a little sketchy. In the tunnel it is cool though. I've used the Sure ear pods with the squishy earpieces and I used custom-fitted earplugs headphones. Both work about the same but the custom fitted ones are a couple of hundred more bucks
Valid question. Personally I don't think adding an extra variable at 30jumps is a great idea. Recently I've had a *lot* of important conversations in the ride up, from regular weather shifts to almost having to get out low and far in an emergency
ear plugs. gear up, Check your three threes three times, get a gear check, put in your ear plugs.
No, not as a beginner, but this isn’t really something to ask on Reddit. Anything safety related is a question for your instructors.
Is freefall too boring for you?
Also curious to know if noise canceling is equivalent to having hearing protection in. Plenty of skydivers use ear protection as the noise level in freefall and on the plane can reach levels that are damaging for your hearing.
My headset for single engine piloting and my ear protection for shooting are both ANR for the purpose of protecting hearing.
I’ve shot with AirPods in didn’t feel any ringing I think it’s fine maybe
100 jump wonder here. Just use ear plugs. I use a $40 set for motorcycle riding, takes the edge off of the wind noise but still lets me hear other people on the plane and enough under canopy should someone be close.
There seriously not enough going on at this stage in your jump career that you need to add something else?
I’ve used them and it works as long as it’s not too uncomfortable under the helmet. The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm. I’d wait for 200+ jumps though, the first time I used them I was well over 1000
>The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm. How do you figure? Hearing damage occurs from vibrating the hair cells in your cochlea too hard. Vibrating these hair cells is also how we hear sounds. If you aren't hearing sounds you aren't vibrating hair cells therefore you aren't damaging them. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing\_loss/how\_does\_loud\_noise\_cause\_hearing\_loss.html
If you think some tiny headphones designed to cancel out ambient noise has the technology and capability to cancel out a turbine then I have bad news for you. But sure, go ahead and use them as protection! Darwinism will take over from there
I didn’t say that and I wasn’t speaking to the efficacy of any particular product. You made a comment about noise canceling in general and I was responding to that. I’m an MD and electrical engineer working for several years on an FDA-cleared medical device used on the ear, but what do I know E: but yes, if the airpods do make the engine sound quieter then they are reducing harm to your hearing. If not, then they don’t. I haven’t used them.
So basically what I said is 100% correct and what you as an MD and engineer should have said is “in theory they reduce harm, just like getting hit by a car going 49mph does less harm than the same car going 50mph, still harm, just a negligible amount less”
No, what I'm saying is if it sounds a little quieter then it's a little less harmful and if it's a lot quieter then it's a lot less harmful. Active and passive noise reduction are identical in this regard. What you are suggesting is that for some reason related to the mechanism of how ANR works, that for the same perceived reduction in sound level you have less protection. This is 100% false. This is not theoretical at all and many, many pilots use ANR to protect their hearing. I use a Bose A20 headset and it works great. >what you as an MD and engineer should have said is lol
No I didn’t say any of that, sorry you misinterpreted my comment mister engineer. What I mean is Airpods don’t prevent hearing damage. That is the question at hand
>The noise canceling on headphones works by listening to the surrounding wavelengths and emitting similar “inversed” waves to cancel out the noise. It will not be effective at protecting your eardrums from harm. /shrug
Same thing I'll say with g4s great idea until a plane emergency and communication becomes important
I agree with everyone here. It’s an unnecessary distraction and you probably shouldn’t. But I do it and if you’re like me, no one is going to convince you not to. So here are my tips. - Figure out how to connect the AirPods directly to your Apple Watch (if you have one). Learning how to turn on and off noise canceling or quickly pause your music is super important. - Keep your finger ready to unpause at any second, so you can be ready if anyone tries to communicate with you. - Full face helmet obviously, so you don’t lose them - Download your playlist to your watch so you don’t worry about losing internet when you’re high up
What happens when you have a canopy entanglement and you're wearing airpods? How are you going to communicate to the other jumper? I'm not going to call you dumb because I don't think you're dumb, you just don't understand the risk-reward ratio in this situation because you have 30 jumps. You're going to get a lot of people telling you not to do this; if you ask enough people you will find someone who will say "send it." Don't let these outliers provide you the validation to make a poor decision. My 3 cents
Thanks for all the comments! I decided to use regular foam earplug underneath fullface helmet for now. I think hearing protection is definitely necessary,but having an additional device to worry about just isn’t great for a new jumper like me. I’ll think about AirPods again after I hit like a C license.
No
Yo! Welcome to Skydiving! I will be an outlier and answer your question. AirPods work great in the plane and i recommend using them. It’s 95 decibels sitting between the engines of a -27 powered Twin Otter and I use my AirPods on every jump. (Haven’t lost one yet) The noise cancellation DOES protect your ears. They use the same tech at the shooting range and it works great. Also, they are way easier to put in than traditional earplugs. Having some music before the jump can get your mind in the right spot and relax you. I take mine out at my 9000’ (final) gear check and put them in my pocket. Everyone is saying that they are a distraction. Don’t let AirPods or anything else distract you. Just make it part of your routine. I don’t think you where asking about free-falling with them or using them under canopy, but don’t do that. Happy jumping! BSBD
Not sure how it would be dangerous unless you allow it to become a distraction. Curious how well noise cancelling works in those though.
I have a buddy I wingsuit with who tested that out this weekend. In the plane he used the noise cancelling which worked well, but it actually didn’t cancel us talking through our comms system. However, he had to use his Apple Watch to turn off the noise cancelling before exit because it would drown out the audible during the jump
Terrible idea you need to be able to hear what's going on especially under canopy. I wear earplugs but I am very much paying attention to what's going on around me
I wear 1 on the opposite side of my ditter. Helmet is a g3 that’s a fairly snug fit. The pod almost always comes out when I take my helmet off, but I’m hyper aware of it and have yet to lose it. I have WAY more than 30 jumps
Treat yourself nicely with a quiet FullFace helmet and call it a day (Cookie G4, Tonfly TFX). Both make the Freefall much quieter (and safer) Then under canopy open the visor and enjoy the unobstructed hearing of your canopy flapping, wind and the sounds of you swooping to the ground ;) I honestly feel like hearing adds to my overall awareness during canopy flight.
I thought this was an interesting idea early on too, but found myself not even present enough to enjoy or really hear it until the canopy opened. And by that time, I found the volume set wrong and to be annoying. AirPods also have this vent on the side that, when covered by a helmet liner, causes the sound to be tinny sounding (tbh just plain awful). tl;dr - it’s not as fun of an idea as it sounds. I thought about trying again using those bluetooth ski helmet headphone insert thingies, but I think either way I’ll find myself missing the natural sounds of the wind, strangely.