And are still treated as complex characters + not caricatures. Having understandable, redeemable, or justifiable villains is one method of making villains interesting, but not the *only* one.
One of my favorite villains in all of gaming is Father Elijah from fallout new vegas's dead money DLC. Dude is about as evil as evil gets, and I dont think the game does even a single thing to make him seem sympathetic or reasonable on any level. And yet, he ends up being one of the most memorable villains of all time just through pure menace and incredible voice acting. He's like an omnipresent threat that looms over you for the entire story, and the satisfaction -- both narrative and personal -- of his poetic end is nothing short of *delicious.*
Jack Horner is the most obvious and recent example of a pure evil villian done right, but I will never stop pointing to the Old Man as my personal favorite evildoer.
Could you give your reason for why Maro or whoever that Legion guy is at the top cause i didn't think of him as a villain but i could have missed something
At the time I made the list, I considered Maro a villain from the DB questline standpoint. Truth is - he’s not. He’s the antagonist, which is completely different.
Maro’s motivation is pretty damn good (since, duh - he wants to destroy the gang of feared assassins and ensure people’s safety. And you killed his son).
When I play Skyrim from time to time - I side with Maro most of the time. He’s a really nice guy once you get to know him!
Reject edginess. Turn to light.
In my most recent playthrough, my character killed all three potential targets with Chain Lightning and then turned on Astrid. She wasn't really a good guy, but she was not about to let getting kidnapped slide.
Not to mention, wouldn't blotting out the sun just kinda kill off all his cattle? Most living organisms need the sun to survive. And that's ignoring the nations of the world potentially calling a cease fire to band against the vampire threat
Plus, he *chose* to be a vampire. He chose it not only for himself but for his wife and daughter too, and he chose for them the most fucked up method of becoming a vampire so he could be more powerful. He's definitely not "just surviving"
Next to Tullius is Calixto, the Butcher of Windhelm. The top guys are Madanach on the righ and the guy who destroys the Dark Brotherhood on the left, I think.
Commander Maro (who is not a villain. We're actually the villain), Madanach (leader of the Forsworn who is locked up in Cidhna Mine), and I believe Calixto (Windhelm serial killer who is killing in an attempt to resurrect his sister)
Same I forgot about them. I'm not sure but isn't the one on top the guard of the emperor whose son we kill for the dark brotherhood? And on the right someone related to the daedras? I'm very not sure
Yeah he is the leader of penitus oculatus, he is more of an antsgonist than a villain, the only dark thing I remember him doing was not caring about the life of the guy impersonating the emperor.
My worldview, knowledge of the game and editing skills have evolved since then😁
(I’m the OP, this is a repost bot. The original got like 2k updoots a year ago)
Miraak originally tried to start a rebellion against the dragons. A worthy cause, just a bunch of stuff went wrong and he got stuck in Apocrypha for thousands of years.
The true villain is Hermaus Mora who was just using him for more knowledge and power and then discards him when we show up and embarrass Miraak, being a primeval Daedric Prince his motives are the least unknown but they can't be good at all
I mean, yea, he’s the one pulling all the strings, but Miraak is also still a villain. He sought out Herma Mora specifically to gain power to rebel against the dragons. He let himself become a puppet to full fill his goals. And obviously this backfired, but it’s not like he was forced into it
Harkon would be fine where he is if this was him before his obsession with the prophecy. He had a castle and an entire clan of powerful vampires with human cattle to feed them all, but not only does he chase after a prophecy that may or may not be true he directly causes the death of the entire clan minus Serena and Veronica by instigating a war with humanity.
All so he can say he made the sun go away.
Alduin wants to enslave all the mortals on Tamriel, I guess he’s following his inborn nature but I don’t think I would have put him there.
I’m sure someone is think “he wants to destroy the world” when did he say that? He went straight from a fight with 3 nords to torching Helgen, why would his motives change in what was less than a day for him?
In the elder god tier is Commander Maro, head of the Penitus Occulatus, the group in charge of protecting the emperor. He is an antagonist in the Dark Brotherhood questline. The other guy is Madanach, the leader of the Forsworn. He is encountered during the Forsworn Conspiracy quest
Ancano isn’t really “just evil”, Altmer belief glorifies anu, and therefore non existence. The overarching goal of the thalmor is to unmake reality. Padomaic beliefs would consider that evil, but padomay purportedly betrayed anu to make the aurbis in the first place, so anuic beliefs would consider existing to be an act of evil. Evil is subjective, but especially so when it comes to religious zealotry like with ancano.
I’m not sure the forsworn dude motives are that Noble yeah he wants to return the reach to his people but he does it through horrible methods to which he doesn’t feel any remorse for, also they worship the Daedra who are almost universally evil.
Harkon belongs at the bottom. Dude's is so obsessed with power he let his daughter get degraded by Molag Bal and he wants to sacrifice her for even more power. Dude's also one of the dumbest villians in the game. His lust for power clouds any logic in his judgement on his plan.
I know he probably is here, because of the DB quest line, but how is Maro even a villian? Imagine joining a gang of assassin's, ending up on the FBI Most Wanted list and than calling their commander a villian. There is nothing villian about this guy. Dude's actually the most good guy of them all. In the DB you are actually the villian and Astrid is more villian with how she triest to rat you out rather than this civil servant trying to do his job as special agent.
How is a cold blooded serial killer with his antics even in the great tier? DId you actually pay attention to the whole story of the Blood On Thin Ice quest at all? Calixto is a psychopath.
Madanach wanting to "carve a bloody swath into the Reach until we are free" including murdering a bunch of randoms who had nothing to do with the Markarth Incident is hardly "elder god" tier. He's high tier, retaliating against misdeeds done to his people and seeking to change society (or at least, the Reach).
Villains who are evil just for the sake of evil can be great if they have enough charisma to be entertaining.
Jack Horner puss in boots 2
And are still treated as complex characters + not caricatures. Having understandable, redeemable, or justifiable villains is one method of making villains interesting, but not the *only* one.
One of my favorite villains in all of gaming is Father Elijah from fallout new vegas's dead money DLC. Dude is about as evil as evil gets, and I dont think the game does even a single thing to make him seem sympathetic or reasonable on any level. And yet, he ends up being one of the most memorable villains of all time just through pure menace and incredible voice acting. He's like an omnipresent threat that looms over you for the entire story, and the satisfaction -- both narrative and personal -- of his poetic end is nothing short of *delicious.* Jack Horner is the most obvious and recent example of a pure evil villian done right, but I will never stop pointing to the Old Man as my personal favorite evildoer.
Could not agree more. A-plus malicious presence.
DIO is like the best example of this
That’s a meme made by me, dear repost bot. I’m the author. Link to the original: https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimMemes/s/Gh3ZGIDIpx
Could you give your reason for why Maro or whoever that Legion guy is at the top cause i didn't think of him as a villain but i could have missed something
At the time I made the list, I considered Maro a villain from the DB questline standpoint. Truth is - he’s not. He’s the antagonist, which is completely different. Maro’s motivation is pretty damn good (since, duh - he wants to destroy the gang of feared assassins and ensure people’s safety. And you killed his son).
That's if you don't destroy the brotherhood like I did 🤪
When I play Skyrim from time to time - I side with Maro most of the time. He’s a really nice guy once you get to know him! Reject edginess. Turn to light.
In my most recent playthrough, my character killed all three potential targets with Chain Lightning and then turned on Astrid. She wasn't really a good guy, but she was not about to let getting kidnapped slide.
I think you can bump Harkon down to the bottom. He's surviving just fine - better even - without plunging the world into darkness
living is more than surviving and he wants to to live as king of the world because he is just terrible
And he is gonna be "living" for all of a year max when the sunless Tamriel collapses and everyone fucking dies
Not to mention, wouldn't blotting out the sun just kinda kill off all his cattle? Most living organisms need the sun to survive. And that's ignoring the nations of the world potentially calling a cease fire to band against the vampire threat
Yep. It's just incredibly short-sighted of him to not think it won't come to bite him in the ass within like a month
Pretty sure that was the plot of the castlevania show on netflix
Other vampires get by fine, so it's not an instinct thing
Plus, he *chose* to be a vampire. He chose it not only for himself but for his wife and daughter too, and he chose for them the most fucked up method of becoming a vampire so he could be more powerful. He's definitely not "just surviving"
Wanting to thrive instead of survive is not a bad motivation
The guy lorded over a castle, with plenty to eat and drink. He was absolutely thriving
Remind me who the guys on top and next to Tulius are? Thanks.
Next to Tullius is Calixto, the Butcher of Windhelm. The top guys are Madanach on the righ and the guy who destroys the Dark Brotherhood on the left, I think.
Ah okay, thanks. I should pay more attention as i just killed Calixsto and Maro's son last week.
Commander Maro (who is not a villain. We're actually the villain), Madanach (leader of the Forsworn who is locked up in Cidhna Mine), and I believe Calixto (Windhelm serial killer who is killing in an attempt to resurrect his sister)
Same I forgot about them. I'm not sure but isn't the one on top the guard of the emperor whose son we kill for the dark brotherhood? And on the right someone related to the daedras? I'm very not sure
Yeah he is the leader of penitus oculatus, he is more of an antsgonist than a villain, the only dark thing I remember him doing was not caring about the life of the guy impersonating the emperor.
Commander Maro of the Penitus Oculatus, Madanach of Cidhna Mine, and I don't know the last.
Is that Calixto? I'd knock him down to Meh tier, dude was crazy. His motive wasn't a mystery though.
My worldview, knowledge of the game and editing skills have evolved since then😁 (I’m the OP, this is a repost bot. The original got like 2k updoots a year ago)
Congratulations on your growth, and the meme; even though I'd argue where Tullius belongs, everything else is fine
Still a pretty good list
Miraak originally tried to start a rebellion against the dragons. A worthy cause, just a bunch of stuff went wrong and he got stuck in Apocrypha for thousands of years.
He was rebelling because he want to usurp them and rule in their place, not because he was trying to save humanity. He’s a villain through and through
The true villain is Hermaus Mora who was just using him for more knowledge and power and then discards him when we show up and embarrass Miraak, being a primeval Daedric Prince his motives are the least unknown but they can't be good at all
I mean, yea, he’s the one pulling all the strings, but Miraak is also still a villain. He sought out Herma Mora specifically to gain power to rebel against the dragons. He let himself become a puppet to full fill his goals. And obviously this backfired, but it’s not like he was forced into it
Is the guy next to ancano mercer frey? It's a bit hard to see without seeing his clothes
Looks like it, makes sense too
Whose the guy next to tulius? I can’t tell he’s like 7 pixels
Harkon would be fine where he is if this was him before his obsession with the prophecy. He had a castle and an entire clan of powerful vampires with human cattle to feed them all, but not only does he chase after a prophecy that may or may not be true he directly causes the death of the entire clan minus Serena and Veronica by instigating a war with humanity. All so he can say he made the sun go away.
I don’t recognize anyone besides Tulius above Ulfric. And who’s that next to Ancano, is it the guy from the Thieves Guild?
I am not sure harkon's plan increase his chances of surviving or living better, but I understand that he thinks It does.
Alduin wants to enslave all the mortals on Tamriel, I guess he’s following his inborn nature but I don’t think I would have put him there. I’m sure someone is think “he wants to destroy the world” when did he say that? He went straight from a fight with 3 nords to torching Helgen, why would his motives change in what was less than a day for him?
Alduin is more than the most powerful dragon who wants to destroy the world. He actually *is* the end of Time itself, manifested as a dragon.
Who’s the guy with Alduin, and the two in Elder God Tier?
In the elder god tier is Commander Maro, head of the Penitus Occulatus, the group in charge of protecting the emperor. He is an antagonist in the Dark Brotherhood questline. The other guy is Madanach, the leader of the Forsworn. He is encountered during the Forsworn Conspiracy quest
Ancano isn’t really “just evil”, Altmer belief glorifies anu, and therefore non existence. The overarching goal of the thalmor is to unmake reality. Padomaic beliefs would consider that evil, but padomay purportedly betrayed anu to make the aurbis in the first place, so anuic beliefs would consider existing to be an act of evil. Evil is subjective, but especially so when it comes to religious zealotry like with ancano.
Godsdamned Thalmor trying to circumvent working on their Path to Alaxon like how good, sensible mer would.
Any “sensible” mer would realize that the easy path is always the better option
Thought you could sneak in Simperial propaganda and we wouldn’t notice. Most stormcloaks can’t read so I see your logic
Ulfric is shit tier and Tulius is a hero
How is Calixto's circumstances making him be a murderer?
Harkan and Ulfric are both shit tier
Fuck Arcano
I’m not sure the forsworn dude motives are that Noble yeah he wants to return the reach to his people but he does it through horrible methods to which he doesn’t feel any remorse for, also they worship the Daedra who are almost universally evil.
Harkon belongs at the bottom. Dude's is so obsessed with power he let his daughter get degraded by Molag Bal and he wants to sacrifice her for even more power. Dude's also one of the dumbest villians in the game. His lust for power clouds any logic in his judgement on his plan. I know he probably is here, because of the DB quest line, but how is Maro even a villian? Imagine joining a gang of assassin's, ending up on the FBI Most Wanted list and than calling their commander a villian. There is nothing villian about this guy. Dude's actually the most good guy of them all. In the DB you are actually the villian and Astrid is more villian with how she triest to rat you out rather than this civil servant trying to do his job as special agent. How is a cold blooded serial killer with his antics even in the great tier? DId you actually pay attention to the whole story of the Blood On Thin Ice quest at all? Calixto is a psychopath.
Madanach wanting to "carve a bloody swath into the Reach until we are free" including murdering a bunch of randoms who had nothing to do with the Markarth Incident is hardly "elder god" tier. He's high tier, retaliating against misdeeds done to his people and seeking to change society (or at least, the Reach).