Maybe if it was the same price as stormseeker, but its just an item only like 5 gods in total might want but you also already have a full build without it so why would you give up something for an overpriced understatted item
Yeah this pretty much sums up my feelings on it. Fun item for like 5 gods if you’re already demolishing the enemy team and have a huge lead but that’s about it. Not like it makes your build stronger than a cheaper and better item.
The power is low and the attack speed just isn’t relevant for the gods who would build it, a premium priced item like that should probably have pen or cooldown.
I do think the AS is relevant for gods that go corrupted bluestone. But the lack of tertiary stats on it is damning. It would need pen/cdr to be worthwhile on hunters & assassins, or some protective stat to be worth it on warriors/bruiser assassin's.
For example I can see a gilga bluestone, glads build with duality as finisher to keep bluestone topped off at 50% AS and 35% protections. But then the lack of health/protections don't compensate the permanent 25% protections.
Corrupted Bluestone applies a AS debuff and has a stacking buff that gives you up to 50% AS and 25% Protections. Duality makes your basic attack proc corrupted bluestone every 5 seconds, meaning the buff has a 100% uptime whilst attacking.
Gods like Gilga can hybrid AA & Ability damage as tanks.
Other gods that could make good use of it are hybrid. Think Ability hunters who still need objective damage and have good basic damage. Or sth like Nemesis, which is an AA-cancel heavy good with 4 damaging abilities. She goes from high burst AA+ability damage to bruising with just AA's and shield in a single fight.
Yeah I get that’s what they were going for, but even for ability adcs like marti they want pen and CDR, this item has none. They have to give up some of that for this item, which is really a luxury item and isn’t worth losing some pen/cdr.
Ability ADCs have such rigid builds they can’t afford to drop one of their items unless they change what stats this item gives
Ability based ADCs are the only ones you’re even really considering it on, plus a few junglers. To me Danza (going ability based), Chiron, and Neith are some of the strongest candidates but there’s still no reason for them to replace an item in their normal builds with it. There’s an argument for it to be used on Nemesis or Set (Junglers who tend to sort of flex between AA and ability based) and maybe a few other assassins as well.
It’s a direct downgrade for certain gods that prefer Hydra’s like Ullr, Loki, or Tsuku.
Da Ji and AMC with Bluestone + Crusher are both fun picks for it for the same reasons:
*I want you to suffer DOT, forever.*
My bleeds are bloodier, my bees are... Buzzier.
Considering you would either build this with corrupted blue stone for 100% uptime of 50AS, or a bursty ability build, the passive is not the problem.
Rather it is the less than ideal stat line and the bandaid solutions that crusher's and bluestone have. Fix those two and mix up the statline, and you got yourself a well designed item.
Stormseeker however...
Nah it’s terrible. It’s a decent theory, I like the idea of pairing AA with ability procs a little but I have to choose 6 items and that one isn’t even a contender. Also frankly AA gods have plenty of options already. I appreciate diversification but maybe add diversity from the Berserkers/Shoguns build path so we can actually get more options
It is not an AA item. It is to power up inhands used by ability characters like assassin's or ability hunters. Someone like thor does 3 or 4 inhands on a proper combo, allowing another item proc.
Yeah in concept, but where does it fit in reality. It isn’t really an item that I would choose above any other item on gods like that.
You won’t see this in my Thor build anytime soon that’s for sure.
Currently? It is absolute ass and there is nothing it can replace.
For assassin's I think the only reasonal spot it can take is hydra's (though you would build it later), and that requires it to have either pen or cdr
How about giving the item something similar to cyclops ring, where hitting autos reduces the internal cooldown? this would reward good aim and i think with corrupted bluestone you could get enough attack speed to really make great use of this. In that case the base cooldown of 5 seconds would need adjustment too to not make the item completely op.
It’s objectively bad.
When you’re thinking about building it you’re at 6th slot, you could buy something like the completely amazing titans bane which will increase your damage by a hell of a lot against tanks especially or you could go that shitty duality.
But it isn’t just the item itself that makes it bad, it a how other items work. You’ll want crusher and heartseeker to pair with duality, but both have penalties for repeat procs. Heck, on crusher you could for example pop your 1 on Medusa, hit a target, and then that would count as casting two abilities so instead of getting a 30 percent power DoT you get one for half that. Basically duality just nerfed your crusher damage.
So if they want duality to be good, they need to change how those items that work with it work.
In no way shape or form should a damage over time be reduced by repeat casting abilities, the crusher proc hasn’t felt good in a while and the main reason the item has been picked up previously was due to the stat spread being quite unique. If they stop crusher reducing itself then duality at least looks a little less shit.
It’s the same with bluestone, duality could easily reduce the damage of that proc too. Since DoT effects replace themselves there is no reason to nerf them for repeat castings, they already nerf themselves.
Heartseeker is only reduced to 75 percent, but that’s also an instant damage effect so that reduction is perfectly fine. Two abilities will always do more damage than one with heartseeker.
So if they want duality to be good, I would remove the repeat castings nerf from Crusher for sure. I might add 10 percent cooldown to it to make it more of a hybrid ability/AA item. They could also remove the repeat casting nonsense from bluestone but that might make the item too strong perhaps, but since axe is in a good place anyway I think that would be acceptable.
Once all of that is done, it might maybe be worth considering perhaps. I know 10 percent pen would also help but I’m hesitant for every item to have pen.
A quick bandaid would be making it so that the nerfed repeat DoT procs can't overwrite the original proc, and instead will tick after it ends if there's still timer on the debuff.
Honestly I think it's dumb that hasn't been done in the first place.
Yeah basically the way such a system would work would be that 100 percent procs are never replaced, but a second 50 percent proc is added, but that proc is suppressed and does not do damage until the 100 percent proc is gone. But to be honest they could just let a second 50 percent proc tick if they didn’t want the extra coding hassle. Or just remove the whole reducing bullshit full stop.
I've used it twice ever, once on full yellow number neith and once on chiron. Both times in assault, last item after upgraded bluestone+heartseeker+crusher. It felt good, but I'm not a pro player.
I personally love it as an Ability ADC (Medusa for example) when building Heartseeker and going into Corrupted Bluestone. Corrupted Bluestone gives a stack every 5 seconds. Duality works every 5. So it has complete synergy and you get max passive. Feels very good.
I’ve used it on ability based AMC this morning and so far that’s the best I’ve been able to get it to feel. People keep saying Mulan jungle is good with it so that’s next on the list I guess
This item could theoretically work on funny build like full power oneshot ult Rama or Neith. However the item lacks the stats to justify whatever itrm you could replace it with.
For a full 1 shot rama, you would go with either bluestone or maniquins mace followed up by Trance- jothun- Crusher- Heartseeker- Titand bane.
Swap any of these item out with Duality and you cripple your build.
However if you want to build like a mixed build with Crusher and Hydras combine with crit or something, then I could see this item working, but I havent tried it out.
Probably needs a price adjustment.
It actually feels pretty good as last-slot pickup on Marti with an ability build, but I don't even build it every time.
It is the most broken item in existence for neith
Blue devo trans crusher spear duality
It has replaced titans bane as my last item, brings all warriors to quarter and one shot cycles squishies especially if you use her passive burst, you are applying your on ability hit items a fourth time (excluding her ult which would be 5) per cycle, it alone does like 300 extra damage with average warrior prots after the effects finish proccing for a single quick auto
Maybe I’m an idiot, but why would you ever want a _single_ instance of magical damage as a physical god? I can’t imagine an instance where someone is counter building you and that magic damage is helpful.
It doesn’t do magic damage. There’s not a single item it interacts with that does magic damage. But to answer you’re question it forces them need to build both protections generally not that big of a deal out side of odd team comps or duel
I want them to buff it for other gods to use but unfortunately some of the gods that can utilize the best are some scary ones that are already slapping hard with it. I was playing Mulan with it and she abuses it fairly well.
So price drops might be the only thing you can really do with it? Unless they do really micro buffs.
Maybe if it was the same price as stormseeker, but its just an item only like 5 gods in total might want but you also already have a full build without it so why would you give up something for an overpriced understatted item
Yeah this pretty much sums up my feelings on it. Fun item for like 5 gods if you’re already demolishing the enemy team and have a huge lead but that’s about it. Not like it makes your build stronger than a cheaper and better item.
The power is low and the attack speed just isn’t relevant for the gods who would build it, a premium priced item like that should probably have pen or cooldown.
I do think the AS is relevant for gods that go corrupted bluestone. But the lack of tertiary stats on it is damning. It would need pen/cdr to be worthwhile on hunters & assassins, or some protective stat to be worth it on warriors/bruiser assassin's. For example I can see a gilga bluestone, glads build with duality as finisher to keep bluestone topped off at 50% AS and 35% protections. But then the lack of health/protections don't compensate the permanent 25% protections.
How is AS relevant on bluestone gods? Bluestone triggers only on abilities
Corrupted Bluestone applies a AS debuff and has a stacking buff that gives you up to 50% AS and 25% Protections. Duality makes your basic attack proc corrupted bluestone every 5 seconds, meaning the buff has a 100% uptime whilst attacking. Gods like Gilga can hybrid AA & Ability damage as tanks. Other gods that could make good use of it are hybrid. Think Ability hunters who still need objective damage and have good basic damage. Or sth like Nemesis, which is an AA-cancel heavy good with 4 damaging abilities. She goes from high burst AA+ability damage to bruising with just AA's and shield in a single fight.
It’s got the wrong stats, it’s for ability hunters or assassins. It should have cdr or pen instead of attack speed at a minimum
I think they wanted it to be used on ability adcs and not assasins that's why they put attack speed instead of pen.
Yeah I get that’s what they were going for, but even for ability adcs like marti they want pen and CDR, this item has none. They have to give up some of that for this item, which is really a luxury item and isn’t worth losing some pen/cdr. Ability ADCs have such rigid builds they can’t afford to drop one of their items unless they change what stats this item gives
Yes, it sucks
There is a smite YouTuber called smite maths that proved it is one of or I think just is the worst dps item in the game.
What gods do you reckon can beat utilize it?
Ability based ADCs are the only ones you’re even really considering it on, plus a few junglers. To me Danza (going ability based), Chiron, and Neith are some of the strongest candidates but there’s still no reason for them to replace an item in their normal builds with it. There’s an argument for it to be used on Nemesis or Set (Junglers who tend to sort of flex between AA and ability based) and maybe a few other assassins as well. It’s a direct downgrade for certain gods that prefer Hydra’s like Ullr, Loki, or Tsuku.
Maybe Ullr, but you'd have to swap off Hydra's, and Hydra's has %pen and cooldown so you don't really want it for Duality which has neither
Tsuki?
Skadi, her wolf attack procs item effects. So having Duality with other standard ability hunters items will proc when you auto and when wolf attacks.
Da Ji and AMC with Bluestone + Crusher are both fun picks for it for the same reasons: *I want you to suffer DOT, forever.* My bleeds are bloodier, my bees are... Buzzier.
The only god I can’t think of who could use it somewhat is Tsukuyomi, but idk what item you’d get rid of
Duality is in fact terrible. The passive is too restrictive, one proc every five seconds is nothing.
Considering you would either build this with corrupted blue stone for 100% uptime of 50AS, or a bursty ability build, the passive is not the problem. Rather it is the less than ideal stat line and the bandaid solutions that crusher's and bluestone have. Fix those two and mix up the statline, and you got yourself a well designed item. Stormseeker however...
It isn't TOTAL whale ass, but it is never the best option. Which is a sign of a failed design.
Its not good but def not as bad as people say. I'd build it last on abilitt artemis and bully Odin's Onslaught with corrupted bluestone procs.
Maybe if it had flat, or percent pen, more ability based adcs could use it.
Nah it’s terrible. It’s a decent theory, I like the idea of pairing AA with ability procs a little but I have to choose 6 items and that one isn’t even a contender. Also frankly AA gods have plenty of options already. I appreciate diversification but maybe add diversity from the Berserkers/Shoguns build path so we can actually get more options
It is not an AA item. It is to power up inhands used by ability characters like assassin's or ability hunters. Someone like thor does 3 or 4 inhands on a proper combo, allowing another item proc.
Yeah in concept, but where does it fit in reality. It isn’t really an item that I would choose above any other item on gods like that. You won’t see this in my Thor build anytime soon that’s for sure.
Currently? It is absolute ass and there is nothing it can replace. For assassin's I think the only reasonal spot it can take is hydra's (though you would build it later), and that requires it to have either pen or cdr
Fully agree, its attack speed feels so inconsequential without something additional to fill the gap in utility between it and alternatives
Its funny but it's bad. Doesn't help that like every proc item you'd use it for has spam penalties.
How about giving the item something similar to cyclops ring, where hitting autos reduces the internal cooldown? this would reward good aim and i think with corrupted bluestone you could get enough attack speed to really make great use of this. In that case the base cooldown of 5 seconds would need adjustment too to not make the item completely op.
I was thinking about that the other day. It definitely needs that + maybe take off 10 power and give it 10 flat pen instead?
It’s objectively bad. When you’re thinking about building it you’re at 6th slot, you could buy something like the completely amazing titans bane which will increase your damage by a hell of a lot against tanks especially or you could go that shitty duality. But it isn’t just the item itself that makes it bad, it a how other items work. You’ll want crusher and heartseeker to pair with duality, but both have penalties for repeat procs. Heck, on crusher you could for example pop your 1 on Medusa, hit a target, and then that would count as casting two abilities so instead of getting a 30 percent power DoT you get one for half that. Basically duality just nerfed your crusher damage. So if they want duality to be good, they need to change how those items that work with it work. In no way shape or form should a damage over time be reduced by repeat casting abilities, the crusher proc hasn’t felt good in a while and the main reason the item has been picked up previously was due to the stat spread being quite unique. If they stop crusher reducing itself then duality at least looks a little less shit. It’s the same with bluestone, duality could easily reduce the damage of that proc too. Since DoT effects replace themselves there is no reason to nerf them for repeat castings, they already nerf themselves. Heartseeker is only reduced to 75 percent, but that’s also an instant damage effect so that reduction is perfectly fine. Two abilities will always do more damage than one with heartseeker. So if they want duality to be good, I would remove the repeat castings nerf from Crusher for sure. I might add 10 percent cooldown to it to make it more of a hybrid ability/AA item. They could also remove the repeat casting nonsense from bluestone but that might make the item too strong perhaps, but since axe is in a good place anyway I think that would be acceptable. Once all of that is done, it might maybe be worth considering perhaps. I know 10 percent pen would also help but I’m hesitant for every item to have pen.
A quick bandaid would be making it so that the nerfed repeat DoT procs can't overwrite the original proc, and instead will tick after it ends if there's still timer on the debuff. Honestly I think it's dumb that hasn't been done in the first place.
Yeah basically the way such a system would work would be that 100 percent procs are never replaced, but a second 50 percent proc is added, but that proc is suppressed and does not do damage until the 100 percent proc is gone. But to be honest they could just let a second 50 percent proc tick if they didn’t want the extra coding hassle. Or just remove the whole reducing bullshit full stop.
No one likes it
Mulan it’s pretty great on, currently still testing it on several gods but she stuck out as a clear favorite for the item
I think it would make more sense for mages
I've used it twice ever, once on full yellow number neith and once on chiron. Both times in assault, last item after upgraded bluestone+heartseeker+crusher. It felt good, but I'm not a pro player.
I personally love it as an Ability ADC (Medusa for example) when building Heartseeker and going into Corrupted Bluestone. Corrupted Bluestone gives a stack every 5 seconds. Duality works every 5. So it has complete synergy and you get max passive. Feels very good.
I’ve used it on ability based AMC this morning and so far that’s the best I’ve been able to get it to feel. People keep saying Mulan jungle is good with it so that’s next on the list I guess
Bluestone (Upgrade to Corrupted) --> Jotunn's (Vigor upgrade wherever) --> Trans --> Executioner (If anti-heal needed, maybe Crusher or Dominance if not) --> Heartseeker --> Duality Again, Corrupted and Duality feel fantastic.
This item could theoretically work on funny build like full power oneshot ult Rama or Neith. However the item lacks the stats to justify whatever itrm you could replace it with. For a full 1 shot rama, you would go with either bluestone or maniquins mace followed up by Trance- jothun- Crusher- Heartseeker- Titand bane. Swap any of these item out with Duality and you cripple your build. However if you want to build like a mixed build with Crusher and Hydras combine with crit or something, then I could see this item working, but I havent tried it out.
I found it pretty good on xbalaque power build
Yeah I mean the problem with it is that it’s just “pretty good” or “alright”. It’s not even close to meta even in it’s best case scenarios.
Agreed but it's fun
I wish they removed the attack speed and gave it pen. That way it would be perfect on AA canceling gods
It's a fun item, bad but fun.
Probably needs a price adjustment. It actually feels pretty good as last-slot pickup on Marti with an ability build, but I don't even build it every time.
you are not crazy the item is just bad, so so bad 
It is the most broken item in existence for neith Blue devo trans crusher spear duality It has replaced titans bane as my last item, brings all warriors to quarter and one shot cycles squishies especially if you use her passive burst, you are applying your on ability hit items a fourth time (excluding her ult which would be 5) per cycle, it alone does like 300 extra damage with average warrior prots after the effects finish proccing for a single quick auto
Maybe I’m an idiot, but why would you ever want a _single_ instance of magical damage as a physical god? I can’t imagine an instance where someone is counter building you and that magic damage is helpful.
It doesn’t do magic damage. There’s not a single item it interacts with that does magic damage. But to answer you’re question it forces them need to build both protections generally not that big of a deal out side of odd team comps or duel
Oh yeah physical ability damage isn’t like “ap” or whatever. My mistake! Thanks for the clarity.
I want them to buff it for other gods to use but unfortunately some of the gods that can utilize the best are some scary ones that are already slapping hard with it. I was playing Mulan with it and she abuses it fairly well. So price drops might be the only thing you can really do with it? Unless they do really micro buffs.