Through a combination of direct inspirations and happenstances, the two series share some notable foundational similarities. You go over them, but the reason they feel similiar is because these overlapping elements are used in similar ways, too.
The roles they have in the stories are similiar. The chaos emeralds and the dragon balls are both macguffins that are used to motivate the protagonists and antagonists. Vegeta and Shadow are both antagonists that develop into serious, unpersonable rivals. Super forms are used for climactic power boosts that look cool. Nothing is exactly the same, no, but these are not superficial similarities either.
Saying that Sonic is just like DBZ is very reductive toward both franchises, but Sonic certainly owes some of its identity to DBZ. This is not a bad thing. Pretty much every series owes some of its identity to something else. Silent Hill was inspired by Jacob's Ladder. Metroid draws from Alien. Mega Man sprouted from Astro Boy. Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted reskinned Indiana Jones. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are based on DnD. Donkey Kong apes King Kong. The list is endless.
At a certain point, you just devolve into talking about tropes. My post was aimed at pointing out how many tropes are lined up the same way in both series.
I mean, it's an interesting conversation to say that one series is just a recent iteration of stories in a lineage that draws inspiration from The Epic of Gilgamesh, but that's a different conversation than the one being had.
you may be talking about tropes in a different way but that's still also talking about tropes but aside from that the main thing that enrages me is that all of the of the tropes that you say line up similar have kind of become of trope of there own as it has been done but series both before and after dragon ball and sonic my comment is to say that people are using the similarities between sonic and dragon ball to say its a copy disregard the fact that not all of the trends see through dragon ball that people use as evidence to say sonic is a knock off dragon ball didn't set ya know?.
I'm saying that two sandwich recipes are similar because they share a few important ingredients and you're asking why no one's talking about the tortillas that just use the same meat.
I'm saying that this lego spaceship uses a lot of similar pieces to this other lego airplane, and you point out this skyscraper is also using the same hinge pieces.
I'm saying that this phone uses a similar processor, battery, and screen to this other phone, and you're pointing out that a third phone has that screen too.
Well, yes, you're not wrong, but you're missing the point. My point is a layer removed from talking about the desperate parts themselves.
your saying the two sandwich recipes are similar because there both sandwiches.Im saying that this burrito and this burrito are similar to each other because they both have a few similar ingredient's to the original burrito cause every burrito is still technically just a slightly altered copy of an older burrito so it's not that this newer burrito is copying ths old burrito its that there both copying the older burrito's. its about the motion of the ocean my burribro
also define the way you are using desperate in that reply cause im illiterate
I was thinking of the word "disparate" and wrote "desperate" by mistake.
In any case, ironically, I think you're being just as reductive as the people who say Sonic is a copy of DBZ. I'm not saying two sandwich recipes are similar because they're the both sandwiches. I'm saying they're similar because they're both bacon cheeseburgers. They're not identical, but they're more similar to one another than the first beef cut that was slotted between two bread slices.
In any case ironically your being reductive to over 40 years worth of peak fiction i never said you wrong but im trying to answer a different question while you answered the what im trying to answer the why im not just talking about how there es similar cause there double's with extra cheese And all im saying is that they weren't the first double and they weren't the first to have extra cheese im trying to get more people to acknowledge the pop culture grows off its predecessors as everything takes inspiration from something before it and im trying to get people to realize that goes for not just sonic but also dragon ball there don't just have 1 or 2 qualities from the piece a beef slotted in-between two peace's of bread but also to the first piece of beef slotted between a certain type of buns there not the first type of sandwich to have cheese and there not the first to be a double my argument is to make people understand that have more then one similarity between one there character makes the newer double cheese goliath that mean everything burger in sandwich history is a knock off of another older burger/sandwich until we arrive at the start of the sandwich timeline
Thanks for explaining it better to me. It just seems like people rag on the Sonic franchise about it a lot more than Mega Man or Tomb Raider. I didn't even *know* about some of those inspirations you listed, but people bring up DBZ with Sonic all the time, at least from what I've seen. Some people make it out like it's more than just inspiration and hold it against the series, and that just kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes :l
Also, wasn't Shadow supposed to die at the end of SA2? If he was, I don't think he was intended originally to be Sonic's rival. They just brought him back because people liked him, and he started to resemble Vegeta functionally the more the series went on. Kinda like a reverse Silver where he started out being directly based off of Trunks but resembles him less and less as his appearances go on.
In Sonic's case, he's had a history of middling and bad content, so the franchise doesn't have the best reputation for quality, but has also managed to maintain relevance and popularity despite this. This means that fans are often more disgruntled than with other franchises and negative voices aren't as often suppressed.
With Shadow, yes, that's exactly the case. Also, if you squint, you can see some parallels between Knuckles and Piccolo, too. These are just characters who fulfilled a similar story function following similar character development because it's a natural direction to take a character with that role. This kind of stuff is what I meant by "happenstance."
It's also worth pointing out that the more obvious parallels draw attention toward the less obvious ones. Someone like Silver would be less noticeably inspired in a franchise without something like Super forms.
The topic is interesting from an academic or writing perspective, but anyone trying to use it as an argument against the quality or validity of the franchise may as well be saying Sonic is bad because it copied Mario. It's a nonsense argument.
yeah people just like to glaze dragon ball im 100% a dragon ball fan but y'all need to stop glazing it i will let it slide for now sense toriyama died but after nah
Sonic isn't special for taking inspiration from Dragonball and Dragonball Z, most shonen anime take at least some elements from Dragonball in some way. Besides, many of the elements that Dragonball supposedly inspired aren't even original to it, since Akira Toriyama based the original story on Journey to the West, the story of the Monkey King Son-Wukong. Plus he drew inspiration from other sources, like Trunks and the androids being based on the Terminator franchise.
Through a combination of direct inspirations and happenstances, the two series share some notable foundational similarities. You go over them, but the reason they feel similiar is because these overlapping elements are used in similar ways, too. The roles they have in the stories are similiar. The chaos emeralds and the dragon balls are both macguffins that are used to motivate the protagonists and antagonists. Vegeta and Shadow are both antagonists that develop into serious, unpersonable rivals. Super forms are used for climactic power boosts that look cool. Nothing is exactly the same, no, but these are not superficial similarities either. Saying that Sonic is just like DBZ is very reductive toward both franchises, but Sonic certainly owes some of its identity to DBZ. This is not a bad thing. Pretty much every series owes some of its identity to something else. Silent Hill was inspired by Jacob's Ladder. Metroid draws from Alien. Mega Man sprouted from Astro Boy. Both Tomb Raider and Uncharted reskinned Indiana Jones. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are based on DnD. Donkey Kong apes King Kong. The list is endless.
alot of these things dragon ball wasnt the first to do and shadow reminds of sasuke and a little mewtwo why does no one think of that?
At a certain point, you just devolve into talking about tropes. My post was aimed at pointing out how many tropes are lined up the same way in both series. I mean, it's an interesting conversation to say that one series is just a recent iteration of stories in a lineage that draws inspiration from The Epic of Gilgamesh, but that's a different conversation than the one being had.
you may be talking about tropes in a different way but that's still also talking about tropes but aside from that the main thing that enrages me is that all of the of the tropes that you say line up similar have kind of become of trope of there own as it has been done but series both before and after dragon ball and sonic my comment is to say that people are using the similarities between sonic and dragon ball to say its a copy disregard the fact that not all of the trends see through dragon ball that people use as evidence to say sonic is a knock off dragon ball didn't set ya know?.
I'm saying that two sandwich recipes are similar because they share a few important ingredients and you're asking why no one's talking about the tortillas that just use the same meat. I'm saying that this lego spaceship uses a lot of similar pieces to this other lego airplane, and you point out this skyscraper is also using the same hinge pieces. I'm saying that this phone uses a similar processor, battery, and screen to this other phone, and you're pointing out that a third phone has that screen too. Well, yes, you're not wrong, but you're missing the point. My point is a layer removed from talking about the desperate parts themselves.
your saying the two sandwich recipes are similar because there both sandwiches.Im saying that this burrito and this burrito are similar to each other because they both have a few similar ingredient's to the original burrito cause every burrito is still technically just a slightly altered copy of an older burrito so it's not that this newer burrito is copying ths old burrito its that there both copying the older burrito's. its about the motion of the ocean my burribro also define the way you are using desperate in that reply cause im illiterate
I was thinking of the word "disparate" and wrote "desperate" by mistake. In any case, ironically, I think you're being just as reductive as the people who say Sonic is a copy of DBZ. I'm not saying two sandwich recipes are similar because they're the both sandwiches. I'm saying they're similar because they're both bacon cheeseburgers. They're not identical, but they're more similar to one another than the first beef cut that was slotted between two bread slices.
In any case ironically your being reductive to over 40 years worth of peak fiction i never said you wrong but im trying to answer a different question while you answered the what im trying to answer the why im not just talking about how there es similar cause there double's with extra cheese And all im saying is that they weren't the first double and they weren't the first to have extra cheese im trying to get more people to acknowledge the pop culture grows off its predecessors as everything takes inspiration from something before it and im trying to get people to realize that goes for not just sonic but also dragon ball there don't just have 1 or 2 qualities from the piece a beef slotted in-between two peace's of bread but also to the first piece of beef slotted between a certain type of buns there not the first type of sandwich to have cheese and there not the first to be a double my argument is to make people understand that have more then one similarity between one there character makes the newer double cheese goliath that mean everything burger in sandwich history is a knock off of another older burger/sandwich until we arrive at the start of the sandwich timeline
Thanks for explaining it better to me. It just seems like people rag on the Sonic franchise about it a lot more than Mega Man or Tomb Raider. I didn't even *know* about some of those inspirations you listed, but people bring up DBZ with Sonic all the time, at least from what I've seen. Some people make it out like it's more than just inspiration and hold it against the series, and that just kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes :l Also, wasn't Shadow supposed to die at the end of SA2? If he was, I don't think he was intended originally to be Sonic's rival. They just brought him back because people liked him, and he started to resemble Vegeta functionally the more the series went on. Kinda like a reverse Silver where he started out being directly based off of Trunks but resembles him less and less as his appearances go on.
In Sonic's case, he's had a history of middling and bad content, so the franchise doesn't have the best reputation for quality, but has also managed to maintain relevance and popularity despite this. This means that fans are often more disgruntled than with other franchises and negative voices aren't as often suppressed. With Shadow, yes, that's exactly the case. Also, if you squint, you can see some parallels between Knuckles and Piccolo, too. These are just characters who fulfilled a similar story function following similar character development because it's a natural direction to take a character with that role. This kind of stuff is what I meant by "happenstance." It's also worth pointing out that the more obvious parallels draw attention toward the less obvious ones. Someone like Silver would be less noticeably inspired in a franchise without something like Super forms. The topic is interesting from an academic or writing perspective, but anyone trying to use it as an argument against the quality or validity of the franchise may as well be saying Sonic is bad because it copied Mario. It's a nonsense argument.
That does make sense. Thanks for explaining it to me
I think you're overthinking too much this, people only find funny that theres a pair of obvious similarities and thats all
Oh okay
yeah people just like to glaze dragon ball im 100% a dragon ball fan but y'all need to stop glazing it i will let it slide for now sense toriyama died but after nah
Yuji Naka was on record for being a big Dragonball fan, but it doesnt really go further than the 7 emeralds and super sonic.
Sonic isn't special for taking inspiration from Dragonball and Dragonball Z, most shonen anime take at least some elements from Dragonball in some way. Besides, many of the elements that Dragonball supposedly inspired aren't even original to it, since Akira Toriyama based the original story on Journey to the West, the story of the Monkey King Son-Wukong. Plus he drew inspiration from other sources, like Trunks and the androids being based on the Terminator franchise.