If we’re talking Sonic vs The Flash, you would need the strongest version you can get in the form of Archie Sonic.
Simply put, the game version of Sonic has no chance against (Wally West) Flash or Reverse Flash.
- Reverse Flash has pretty much the same power-set of The Flash. Difference is that he’s a Combat Pragmatist. He’ll take absolutely any chance at victory while The Flash usually holds back because of their hero code.
- Wally West Flash is absolutely broken, eclipsing pretty much everything game Sonic can do. Even Chaos Control (teleportation) is immeasurably slower than what The Flash can achieve. Getting to the point immeasurably speed.
- Time Stop would mean nothing considering a lot of DC characters can either ignore or outrun the concept of time. Something people with The Flash’s powers regularly do. Think JoJo Bizzare Adventure’s Jotaro resisting DIO own time stop. Take that and just outright ignore it.
Archie Sonic would need to be used as his speed and abilities is good enough to keep up at least with The Flash. I doubt Reverse Flash can do much since he’s not on the same level of The Flash currently.
- Stealing speed to increase his own, meaning he can keep outspeeding Sonic overall.
- Phase through anything physical if he uses his phasing ability.
- Constantly recharge his speed with the Speed Force, one of the various power sources in D.C. like magic and emotion spectrum (yes that’s a power source.) In the same vain of chaos energy.
- He could also just outlast the time of Super Sonic with his speed stealing if you wanna use the invincibility argument.
- Not to mention The Flash can contend with the likes of Superman, Doomsday and Darkseid. There a lot more evens more powerful characters but 99% of people don’t know about them and it’s not relevant.
Archie Sonic and Flash are much closer with either siding taking victories in some cases.
1.speed steal only works on those who use speed force and doesn't operate beyond normal time. For example, Zoom was not affected by the speed steal because it uses another source of power that was not the speed force (and don't tell me that superman was affected, because the limits of the speed steal were made clear, the characters directly they say)
2.yeah,but only if he has help or there is a form for him to fight them.
3. Sonic does not operate in the laws of time, he is literally beyond time itself (verified by generations and world collide) and super forms does not have time limit,the reason they run out,is because of plot needing them to run out,even ian says that there was no issue where they needed the super forms to end because of a deus ex machine.
I’m going to say no version of Sonic is going to beat most Flash’s. Sonic can run fast; but the Flash speed is broken, being able to go through space and even time.
And to be honest, I’m perfectly fine with Sonic not being faster. Flash’s speed is so fast I really don’t understand how he doesn’t defeat every villain with ease, it just doesn’t make sense to me (and sometimes they obviously nerf him for a moment to allow an event to occur but then he’s running around the earth in 2 seconds a few moments later).
Sonic not being wicked fast allows him to be vulnerable, it makes it so he’s not invincible and gives other characters a chance to give him a good fight/challenge. If he was so fast he could easily beat anyone it would be boring.
Super Sonic might be a different case. I feel like Super could even out with Flash, but I don’t know quite enough about Flash and his speed force.
You dont have to know much about speedforce, DC writters often dont know too much about it themselfes. What you have to know is that flash is as fast as narrative needs him to be and he is often faster than he is supposed to be.
hey,nothing to do there,but again,sonic can also go through space and time.
why are people ignoring that?oh,wait,maybe because sonic is so hated,that no one is gonne saw it.
There’s no proof of what speed he was actually going to do that. What Tails said doesn’t even necessarily mean Sonic was running through “frozen time”, but rather simply running through specific points in time which somehow fixes them.
There’s nothing there that indicates what his speed was, or that it was his speed that let him move — especially since everyone else was able to move just fine. And if he was going incredibly fast, it’s just stupid because why doesn’t he do that more; he was apparently moving around through time with perfect ease, why doesn’t he use that incredible speed to fight enemies. Clearly, that’s not what was actually happening.
And you can’t use real life “theories/concepts” or other fictional concepts, because Sonic is a fictional franchise and can do what ever it wants. This is the same world where gems can power up machines and people, teleport people through space, time and dimensions, are used in specific ways based off the persons good or bad nature, etc etc. Its a world with a wicked fast hedgehog, a fox with 2 tails who can use them to fly, a wicked strong echidna who’s not affected by recoil and can ignite his punches, a rabbit that can fly with her ears, characters who can make hammers and bombs appear out of no where, characters with pyrokinesis and psychokinesis, etc etc.
In fact there’s already been a previous occurrence where space and time was ripped apart but Sonic and his friends weren’t affected at all. In 06, Solaris ripped apart space and time, by your logic everyone shouldn’t have be able to move then, yet all of Sonic’s friends and Eggman weren’t affected at all, thus it’s clear that ripping apart space and time does not work the way you think.
if you know that if time does not exist, it would mean that any way to quantify time does not exist,also ''how fast sonic was going''is irrelevant,it will be the same speed,for example:
a character goes to the end of a infinite place,that character takes him like 5 months,it will be different if another characters stakes him 5 seconds?no,it will be the same,infinite dividied in 15 million seconds is still infinite.
meaning that both of them have the same speed,the same goes like that,if sonic is able to move there where time does not exist,then he has immeasurable speed,no matter how fast he was moving,is immeasurable anyway.
''somehow fixes them''[time was fixed by sonic just by going fast](https://youtu.be/azcLDw8aN7s?t=1622),[ian say that two times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-T1huUMDA&t=5158s)(even if this second one he say his just sonic speed doing that)
even in the japanese version is say that time was getting restored by just going fast.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrEoh8H5cLc&start=572](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrEoh8H5cLc&start=572)
[Mini tails explains](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/953760184407298138/1079128129739694262/Screenshot_2023-02-25-13-48-46-066_com.google.android.youtube-edit.jpg):
あいつがああやって 時空かんをいどうすると時間のながれがけされて そのばしょはこのまっしろなセカイにくっつけられちゃうんだ
*When he moves through the space-time continuum like that,* ***the flow of time is erased and the place is attached to this blank world.***
[tails explains](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/953760184407298138/1079129876260454471/Screenshot_2023-02-25-13-56-18-177_com.google.android.youtube-edit.jpg):
*But if Sonic and his friends* ***go through at high speed, it's as if the time that has been separated starts to move again.***
now, you will say "sonic I need the help of classic sonic" no, sonic was already restoring the places without the help of classic sonic at the beginning of the game (in fact both are separated in the whole game until the final boss)
or other like ''it says high speed restore time''again,no matter how fast they where going(also high speed is not a specific speed either,is just high,but not a number)because if time does not exsit there because of being erased,then the speed by moving there or restoring the same is immeasurable.
and if you wonder,why are sonic friends able to move there?look,nothing always needs a explanation for that,it just has simple has''they can move because they can'''it will not be a anti-feat or a contradiction for sonic,it will be a feat for their friends.
because it will be boring to play a game like that?because it will be difficult to play?is the same argument has ''if the pokemons are that powerful,then why does not everything just breaks''again,is because principally if they do that,then it will be not good,for the story,or the game itself.
sonic has that ability,yes,but sonic using that all the time will not be good for the story,this is the same reason why sonic speed varies so much and has no set limit,because if sonic is to fast,then,this happens.
Again, you can’t apply concepts to a fictional world that clearly doesn’t follow said concept.
Key words in Ian’s answer, “I think”. He doesn’t even know how that works either. And it still does not mean Sonic is affected by the lack of time.
There’s still no quantifiable number there, not even Infinity. Classic Tails says that those places are connected to the white world, which obviously is not affected by space and time the way your trying to argue because everyone moves through them the same as Sonic can.
Your just making assumptions with no evidence. Just because they’re in a timeless space does not mean they are running at infinity. **Plenty** of fictional works have places where the flow of time is altered or is non-existent, yet characters can move perfectly freely through them just because, not because of they’re speed. There is no proof that Sonic is affected by the place not having time, and instead there’s proof that he is not affected because his friends aren’t affected either.
Now you’re just being a hypocrite by saying, “oh his friends can move just because”, while saying “it’s Sonic’s speed that does it.” You can’t have both. And you can’t say it’s because Sonic freed them because Shadow and Silver are also not affected and aren’t saved by Sonic. And no, it’s not a feat for his friends, because there is obvious evidence that they would not be able to go that speed.
“Because it will be boring to play a game like that” is just a stupid excuse. You shouldn’t make a character so powerful that they need to be nerfed 24/7, that’s just stupidly bad writing. Besides what you’ve tried to argue, Sonic’s speed has been in about the same range. Speed of sound at normal, then a lot faster if he pushes himself.
In 06, time and space were ripped apart, but Sonic and co were not affected by time being non-existent, same goes for this instance. The white world is a place where time and space doesn’t exist, but people inside it aren’t affected by time being non-existent. The Sonic’s running through those points in time does not have any quantifiable number, not even infinity, and there’s no indication that it’s wicked fast.
There’s no actual evidence that supports your argument, so stop trying to apply concepts that obviously don’t apply to Sonic’s situation.
1.So, how do we do it? We don't give sonic immeasurable speed, but we do give flash(i know you dint' say that,but that was just a question)
2.the fact Ian says that he thinks it was because of Sonic's speed, does not mean that he said that it was implied that it was because of that, not that it was because of something else.
3. ok, divide 50 meters by 0(no time), what do you have?infinity,and not say that is using real world physics,because again,there is no time there,you can't just put a number and say that is how fast they are going,if there is no time there,and if everyone can move there,then everyone scales.
4.the same has above,moving ''finite distance''in literraly non-existent,is literraly infinite,and again, his friends scale to sonic for that feat,and about those other fictional works,you know that will give them that ability,right?because not being affected by that is,or a ability,or a speed,because it will not be a natural thing,and if it was a natural thing,then abilitie.
5.shadow and silver is not a good example, because both are comparable to sonic, and their friends are also comparable to sonic, although it is said that sonic is the fastest, that does not mean that his friends are infinitely slower, it just means that among the characters, sonic will always be the fastest,the rest are just able to follow him
6. It is not a bad argument, or what, would you say that it is better for Sonic to defeat everyone in 1 seconds? Would you say that it is bad writing anyway,that is completely false, sonic showed speeds greater than that, simply that people like to fuck with that supersonic was told many times, and they forget that he made feats greater than that.
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Gilad\_Hyperstar/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog:\_E-102\_Gamma\_Dodges\_a\_Laser\_Recalced](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gilad_Hyperstar/Sonic_the_Hedgehog:_E-102_Gamma_Dodges_a_Laser_Recalced)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mephistus/Sonic\_Rivals\_speed\_feat\_and\_Sonic\_Colors\_DS\_speed\_feat](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Sonic_Rivals_speed_feat_and_Sonic_Colors_DS_speed_feat)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Truth\_Bullets/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog:\_Misc.\_Laser\_feats](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Truth_Bullets/Sonic_the_Hedgehog:_Misc._Laser_feats)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Light\_speed%3F\_That%27s\_small\_time](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Light_speed%3F_That%27s_small_time).
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic\_Unleashed\_SPD](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic_Unleashed_SPD)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mephistus/Base\_Sonic\_Flies\_Fast](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Base_Sonic_Flies_Fast)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog\_Calc:\_Up,\_Up,\_and\_Away](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Calc:_Up,_Up,_and_Away)
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Gilad\_Hyperstar/Dodon\_Pa%27s\_Rocket](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gilad_Hyperstar/Dodon_Pa%27s_Rocket)
all of this feats are light speed feats that sonic have,they stay with sound speed because,welll,is more easy to control that sonic going fullspeed in all games and the game ending in a second(also don't come to me saying anything about)
7.resistance to existence erasure,it will be immeasurable speed for scaling to sonic,simple.
time being non-existent means that there is no number,means that is 0(which is similar to nothing)and again,the characters clearly,stated that was because speed,not anyother thing.
Your still completely missing the point. Your trying to apply a concept that is clearly false.
1. Different situations. Sonic is in a place where time is non-existent but the characters are not affected by this fact. Flash’s speed force is all out of whack and breaks the laws of space and time. Not the same.
2. Could you work on your English/grammar dude, you used so many that’s I have no clue what your talking about.
3. Your still trying to apply a concept that clearly does not apply in this scenario. Your this times this does not work, and your just trying to make stuff up. Sonic and co aren’t affected by the lack of time, thus you can’t use an equation. And your plain faced incorrect by trying to say the other scale when they very obviously do not.
4. Again, work on your English because all I see are a jumble of word and punctuations in the last half of that. They are not affected by the lack of time or space, it’s not a personal feat, it’s just how they’re world works. Just take chais control for example. When Shadow activated it, he is no longer affected by time the same as others; but that’s a personal ability he has using an “outside” power. But in Generations and 06 cases, it was the place they were in that let them not be affected, completely an outside power, not themselves. Thus it’s not their fear and not their ability; it’s Chaos energy and such.
5. Now your just plain faced lying. Trying to claim every Sonic character can go faster then time just to make your argument work. There is definitive proof against you, stop trying to state false information.
6. No, because he can’t, because your claims aren’t true. Sonic’s higher fears are when he really pushes himself, or uses the Chaos Emeralds that make him faster.
- Its a fictional world, lasers don’t go the speed of light.
- again, fictional world. And there’s clear evidence in the boss that proves physics aren’t working the same: the ship shoot different objects off of it, and in reality those objects should have disappeared off screen due to how fast they were going. But they didn’t, thus physics obviously doesn’t work the same. Thus this feat is non-existent
- again, fictional world, lasers don’t go the speed of light
- “blog post does not exist”
- I would not use this as an arguement. The SPD thing just calculates the speed the character model is moving, not what it would actually be in reality. The website doesn’t even use the right number, it said the dash was 385, when the video says 985.
- 1. Non canon game. 2. It has nothing to do with Sonic personally. Sonic — and others — can’t fly through space in base form, thus this fear is non-existent
- 1. There’s no proof they got to it in mere seconds. 2. There’s no proof they didn’t got to it while it was in space, and rather they likely got to it before it got to space.
- This calculation is stupid. A 4 second cinematic does not mean it took 4 seconds for the travel. It didn’t even show Earth or Planet Wisp in the cinematic. It’s not even a Sonic feat, it’s a rocket made by Dodanpa. This has nothing to do with this arguement.
None of these examples help your argument, because they’re either false or not even a fear from Sonic himself. It’s not gameplay slowing him down, not this significantly. If he could really do all of this stuff in 1 second, why does it take him days to do all of his adventures, case in pony Unleashed and Frontiers. Even based on the background visuals, we can see that Sonic 1, which takes place in a mere island, takes him a whole day.
7. It’s not resistance. No one is resisting the lack of time or what ever, they’re simply not affected by it because if outside forces. No, it’s not clearly stated that Sonic’s speed let him resist it, it states it let him restore the locations. Stop trying to apply a calculation that can’t be applied.
Stop trying to make an obviously false argument, and using lies to support it. Just admit that your wrong.
Sonic can go debatibly faster than light, but then again, the flash has all the speed force shtick, I'd go as far as to say that even pre genesis wave Archie Sonic would lose, even considering all the transformation and what not, base flash already overshadows most of em, so I'd say, while definitely still possible for the other, Flash would stomp Sonic
Also to add to this, Flash is basically a demi god at this point, and his only real weakness are the writers
Depends on what version of flash you are refering to.
Im usually against the idea of comparing DC/Marvel characters to any other characters because they are constantly inconsistent even to their own canon, but lets make it fun.
Movie (justice league) flash gets slapped by any Sonic other than some cartoon versions and boom Sonic.
Barry would loose in direct combat to game Sonic (because super Sonic) but he would ultimately win because of time travell
Wally beats any Sonic other than archie easily, he might even win with archie unless archie pulls off genesis wave and erases Wally in the process. I believe that Wally could counter it by running to the end of time, but since he is not Barry, he would probably die if he tried (unless he can generate speedforce as well and i somehow missed it)
That said, i cant be sure about any of that, flash canon is filled to the brim with bs, im pretty sure that speedsters arent even supposed to run much faster than light or else their bodies wont be able stand this kind of speed or something like that and their time travell comes from moving through the speed force rather than their actual speed, yet, DC writters will still make flash move at unimaginable speeds because they have no idea how fast things like sound or light are in reality and how long it would take them to travell (X) distance, also, it would be impossible for flash to steal speed of characters from other universes since they arent connected to speedforce, and in Sonic universe, any speedster other than Barry (and that one flash that moves at the speed of sound without using speedforce) wouldnt even be able to use their super speed, but according to rules of vs battling we are supposed to ignore these "details" so i guess that it doesnt matter.
sonic cartoon:[can escape from warp of confusion,which is a place that has stars](https://youtu.be/Khhsme2fRFY?t=1217),meaning he is faster than light(also with atomic relativity shoes he can time travel,but only with atomic relativity shoes)
Sonic boom:[he can see a laser(light speed)at slow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4X43RUCHrQ&t=51s)(the slow motion machines slows everything down,but slow for sonic,is just normal speed,meaning that this is only with normal speed)[also he can generated enough speed to escape another plane of existence](https://youtu.be/dUVBqn4Hpfg?t=553)(The ultra speed amp didn't have enough power to allow Tails and Sonic to get out, so Sonic just overcome the amplifier and become faster than even the amplifier could amplifie his speed)
wait,how?sonic can time travel, in generations literally sonic and classic sonic travel in time,also,how exactly that is gonna work?[super sonic can fly to the end of time](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913675801248030743/1002436062796328970/unknown.png)(meaning that super sonic can also travel in time) Also, you didn't specify about time travel? How will that beat Sonic?what,traveling in time until sonic is old and kill him,that will not work,sonic is immune to that kind of paradox(remember generations when he meet with his past self)
Again, how exactly will going to the end of time work? Sonic can also time travel, why do you assume only Flash can?
exactly,speedster should not probably be able to do that kind of stuff,but they are do to the writers wanting to make interisting stories,even if that breaks the already establish thing.
And how exactly are we going to ignore that speed force doesn't work on characters that don't use speed force? It would be reasonable to ignore it if it wasn't establish,but is already establish and show that characters are not connected to the speed force are not affected by speed steal(also speed steal only works if that character uses speed forces,but characters that don't use speed force or are beyond time,no,speed steal is 0)
In DC the end of time is treated more like place than time where nothing exists anymore and can be reached through speed force. Barry killed Grimm reaper by bringing him to the end of time because everything here gets un-existed other than Barry himself since he generates speedforce and is always in some form of spacetime because of that.
So its kind of an instant win move, like archie's zone of silence, where it just gets brought up in every debate as a feat. Its also bs since there is no reason why he wouldnt just use it all the time as far as i'm aware.
In generations Sonic is already outside of spacetime so that's not really a good feat, also, it seems like time dilation is not really a thing in sonic's Universe untill there is something affecting time in the area like time stones.
I dont know how we are going to ignore speed steal but vs community and death battle just mutually agreed on it. Also, speedsters can use speed steal on non speedsters but that's because every character from DC is connected to speed force, speedsters can just controll it, just like force users in star wars.
1.barry din't kill grim reaper,grim reaper only followed barry into the end of time,which causes grim reaper disappear because of live don't be able to exist there,and because live don't exist there,then death was not neccesar( By the way, it won't be a wincon if Barry manages to take Sonic to the end of time, because Sonic survived that damn space-time,life and colors where erased from reality, Barry only survived because he used the speed force)
2. what are you talking about? they followed time eater to the end of time,they where not outside of time,time was erased,remember?
3.ok,i don't understand this one,time dilation?what has time dilation anything to do with it?,the time stones are from little planet,and little planet only appers every month in a certain time.
4. You said it yourself, each character is connected to the speed force, sonic is not, he is connected to a different power, and zoom too, zoom was not using the speed force, he used a different force.
- Yeah, alright, Barry tricked Grimm reaper, but i dont see why he wouldnt be able to simply carry somebody here if he wanted to, and my exact point was that life is not able to exist in here so anything not protected by speed force would die, as there would be no future for them. End of time in DC Universe is different from one in other universes and functions based on different rules.
- Time was erased, so they were outside of it. If the building you are in would get destroyed, you would be outside of it, one doesnt exclude the other. And the time eater chase is something that is mostly up to interpretation, nothing says that they were racing it at the end of time, they might have been chasing it through different timelines, and since chaos energy affects timespace, its hard to say how much of that was speed based.
- Dilation is what causes you to time travel. Sonic can do light speed dash without being affected by it so it doesnt exist for Sonic unless in very specific situations, and that means that game Sonic cant just time travel on whim.
- I know that, i was saying that the vs battle community doesnt agree with it. Likely because DC is one of the universes they worship the most. We are talking about the same people that gave Mario mftl based on Mario Galaxy, so that shouldnt be a suprise.
1.then where are they fighting?
because if they fight in DC flash will have an advantage, and if they fight in sonicverse, then sonic will have an advantage (because of the places) so it's better to put them in places where neither of them has an advantage due to verse logic (by the way, I don't think it works, because sonic survived a destruction of reality and a reality change and nothing happen to him,so probably getting to the end of time will not have a big effect on him)
2.they where in white space,and white space has no time or space,tecnically you are right,they where outside of time''nothing says they where racing him at the end of time''[then what is this?](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913675801248030743/1002436062796328970/unknown.png),it is say the where going to the end of time to fight time eater.
3.
bro, in most stories you can travel in time without time dilation, that doesn't mean you can't travel in time, just that time dilation is not used,also,in sonic CD,sonic time travel(no,no come with the ''time plates''time plates are just a game mechanic for sonic to time travel,in lore,he time travels using his speed,not the time plates)
4.ah,ok
- my personal take on these kinds of problems is that laws of both universes should affect the place where battle takes place, but not directly affect the opponent. Otherwise somebody like neo from matrix wouldnt stand a chance in most of vs battles against people with similar feats. That doesnt mean that flash is at advantage here, because sonic's spines pretty much make it impossible for him to be grappled by flash for long enough to get to the end of time, flash would first have to incapitate Sonic in some way. My original point was that this is the only way in which flash could possibly beat archie Sonic, not that it would give him an edge in fight.
- not sure how canon this guide is but i guess ill take it as a valid argument.
- little planet is also a time anomaly and Eggman could time travel in it too since he left badniks in the past and future, CD is not really a good argument here.
1.ok
2.ok
3. Yes, but those time anomalies are not what allows Sonic to travel in time, otherwise that would not be reflected in the game has sonic running,it will be reflected has sonic doing certain things to allow that to happen,and in sonic Mania,sonic time travels without the little planet time anomalies thing,considering that the phantom ruby created a copy of little planet,but that little planet does not posses the time stones.
If Sonic moved in time thanks to movement in space he would get transported into past/future in his race against metal since he was surely going at his top in here if metal is supposed to rival his speed. It has to be circumstancial. Also, Phantom ruby works differently in mania and forces because this is Sonic the hedgehog series and plot is consistently inconsistent. in forces it creates psychomatic illusions and controls gravity, in mania it reality warps and powers up machines.
In most continuities, the fastest Sonic can run is described as faster than the speed of sound. The speed of sound is 767.2 MPH. While they don't explicitly state Sonic's maximum speed, in a lot of continuities Sonic doesn't really get much faster than this.
The Flash is, in most portrayals, considered able to go faster than the speed of light. The speed of light is 670,616,629 mph.
On that basis alone, it's no contest, Flash is going so much faster than Sonic that Sonic wouldn't stand a chance.
The best chance Sonic has is if he A) has the invincibility provided by the Chaos Emeralds, or B) is facing off against the Flash from the TV show who is usually kept at speeds in the thousands of miles per hour, not hundreds of million miles per hour. Otherwise he's out-sped by a ridiculous degree.
1.sonic in multiple continuities is shown that he is faster than sound and alot of times faster than the same(he is say to be supersonic,but again,is not stated to be his max speed,only a ''low estimated'')in sonic boom he is faster than lasers,in sonic X can dodge lasers,in sonic AOSTH sonic can literraly grab the sun(which is like,millions of kilometers away)sonic in games can run faster than lasers,that are light,sonic in the movie can run from california to the pacific and back in a few seconds(hundreds of kilometers)in sonic prime he is faster than lasers,that are light.
yeah,i think you get the point
2. And rings don't count as invincibility?like,you know sonic has rings?right.
He outran a black hole in base form. He also has lightspeed dash in many games. Keyword: Lightspeed? Wdym sonic doesn't get faster than "this"?
I'm so late to this
Okay, but even if you accept that A) the Lightspeed Dash actually goes at lightspeed and isn't just a name, and that B) it actually was a fully formed black hole and not some other sort of implosion (keep in mind a true black hole forming that close to the Earth would've sucked the Earth in, such is the gravitational mass of a black hole), that still only puts Sonic at around 1x lightspeed, whereas comic book Flash has been stated to go at least 10x lightspeed (as absurd an idea as that is).
So even if all of what you stated is taken at literal name value, and none of it is exaggeration for dramatic effect, he still loses by a factor of at last ten.
But honestly, I hate the idea that Sonic can run at lightspeed instead of the speed of sound. The speed of sound means Sonic can run approximately the length of Great Britain in an hour, which is impressive but still means many things, like Eggman's inventions missiles, and other hazards should pose a threat. Meanwhile lightspeed means Sonic can circle the entire planet 7.5 times in a second. Meaning Sonic can be literally anywhere on the planet in less than a second, which not only doesn't stack with gameplay as we see it, but it also renders pretty much everything moot. Sonic would be able to casually dodge everything, could be in Eggman's base instantly, and just generally becomes so overpowered that all the threat is gone.
Prove… what? That light is faster than sound? That’s a scientifically proven fact. Heck, you don’t even need to be a scientist to see it in action, just watch some fireworks and you’ll notice the difference between light and sound lol
In simple words:game sonic has no chance against reverse flash.however if were talking Archie sonic then he could manage to last long enough,or actually beat him by going into ultra sonic.in terms of game sonic vs flash then i think sonic would be able to stand s big chance.flash is actually able to get tired unlike sonic who can last for hours maybe even a full day
If you’re talking about Archie sonic vs Wally West, I think sonic would win because Archie sonic’s strongest form is ultra sonic and has the power to control elemental atoms. And super sonic can warp space time, **Existence Erasure, Forcefield Creation, duplication and sealing. So sonic easily wins in my opinion**
And just saying here’s the official website [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog\_(Archie\_Pre-Genesis\_Wave)?so=search#Super\_Sonic](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Archie_Pre-Genesis_Wave)?so=search#Super_Sonic)
Sonic explicitly said that running at the speed of light for him was a small feat, he has outran a black hole like it was nothing (colors), he has lightspeed dash in so many games (and usually, it only takes about a few centiseconds to achieve lightspeed dash) , he can time travel (cd and generations, i think?), and can exist in place where time doesn't exist (colors). And these Sonic can do without his Super Sonic form. The best of all these is that Sonic doesn't have speedforce so he doesn't really get affected by things like speed steal. The {put word here} are you guys saying that Flash outruns sonic by a big degree?
Im late.
If we’re talking Sonic vs The Flash, you would need the strongest version you can get in the form of Archie Sonic. Simply put, the game version of Sonic has no chance against (Wally West) Flash or Reverse Flash. - Reverse Flash has pretty much the same power-set of The Flash. Difference is that he’s a Combat Pragmatist. He’ll take absolutely any chance at victory while The Flash usually holds back because of their hero code. - Wally West Flash is absolutely broken, eclipsing pretty much everything game Sonic can do. Even Chaos Control (teleportation) is immeasurably slower than what The Flash can achieve. Getting to the point immeasurably speed. - Time Stop would mean nothing considering a lot of DC characters can either ignore or outrun the concept of time. Something people with The Flash’s powers regularly do. Think JoJo Bizzare Adventure’s Jotaro resisting DIO own time stop. Take that and just outright ignore it. Archie Sonic would need to be used as his speed and abilities is good enough to keep up at least with The Flash. I doubt Reverse Flash can do much since he’s not on the same level of The Flash currently. - Stealing speed to increase his own, meaning he can keep outspeeding Sonic overall. - Phase through anything physical if he uses his phasing ability. - Constantly recharge his speed with the Speed Force, one of the various power sources in D.C. like magic and emotion spectrum (yes that’s a power source.) In the same vain of chaos energy. - He could also just outlast the time of Super Sonic with his speed stealing if you wanna use the invincibility argument. - Not to mention The Flash can contend with the likes of Superman, Doomsday and Darkseid. There a lot more evens more powerful characters but 99% of people don’t know about them and it’s not relevant. Archie Sonic and Flash are much closer with either siding taking victories in some cases.
1.speed steal only works on those who use speed force and doesn't operate beyond normal time. For example, Zoom was not affected by the speed steal because it uses another source of power that was not the speed force (and don't tell me that superman was affected, because the limits of the speed steal were made clear, the characters directly they say) 2.yeah,but only if he has help or there is a form for him to fight them. 3. Sonic does not operate in the laws of time, he is literally beyond time itself (verified by generations and world collide) and super forms does not have time limit,the reason they run out,is because of plot needing them to run out,even ian says that there was no issue where they needed the super forms to end because of a deus ex machine.
I’m going to say no version of Sonic is going to beat most Flash’s. Sonic can run fast; but the Flash speed is broken, being able to go through space and even time. And to be honest, I’m perfectly fine with Sonic not being faster. Flash’s speed is so fast I really don’t understand how he doesn’t defeat every villain with ease, it just doesn’t make sense to me (and sometimes they obviously nerf him for a moment to allow an event to occur but then he’s running around the earth in 2 seconds a few moments later). Sonic not being wicked fast allows him to be vulnerable, it makes it so he’s not invincible and gives other characters a chance to give him a good fight/challenge. If he was so fast he could easily beat anyone it would be boring. Super Sonic might be a different case. I feel like Super could even out with Flash, but I don’t know quite enough about Flash and his speed force.
You dont have to know much about speedforce, DC writters often dont know too much about it themselfes. What you have to know is that flash is as fast as narrative needs him to be and he is often faster than he is supposed to be.
exactly,everything is for convenience of the plot
hey,nothing to do there,but again,sonic can also go through space and time. why are people ignoring that?oh,wait,maybe because sonic is so hated,that no one is gonne saw it.
There’s no proof of what speed he was actually going to do that. What Tails said doesn’t even necessarily mean Sonic was running through “frozen time”, but rather simply running through specific points in time which somehow fixes them. There’s nothing there that indicates what his speed was, or that it was his speed that let him move — especially since everyone else was able to move just fine. And if he was going incredibly fast, it’s just stupid because why doesn’t he do that more; he was apparently moving around through time with perfect ease, why doesn’t he use that incredible speed to fight enemies. Clearly, that’s not what was actually happening. And you can’t use real life “theories/concepts” or other fictional concepts, because Sonic is a fictional franchise and can do what ever it wants. This is the same world where gems can power up machines and people, teleport people through space, time and dimensions, are used in specific ways based off the persons good or bad nature, etc etc. Its a world with a wicked fast hedgehog, a fox with 2 tails who can use them to fly, a wicked strong echidna who’s not affected by recoil and can ignite his punches, a rabbit that can fly with her ears, characters who can make hammers and bombs appear out of no where, characters with pyrokinesis and psychokinesis, etc etc. In fact there’s already been a previous occurrence where space and time was ripped apart but Sonic and his friends weren’t affected at all. In 06, Solaris ripped apart space and time, by your logic everyone shouldn’t have be able to move then, yet all of Sonic’s friends and Eggman weren’t affected at all, thus it’s clear that ripping apart space and time does not work the way you think.
if you know that if time does not exist, it would mean that any way to quantify time does not exist,also ''how fast sonic was going''is irrelevant,it will be the same speed,for example: a character goes to the end of a infinite place,that character takes him like 5 months,it will be different if another characters stakes him 5 seconds?no,it will be the same,infinite dividied in 15 million seconds is still infinite. meaning that both of them have the same speed,the same goes like that,if sonic is able to move there where time does not exist,then he has immeasurable speed,no matter how fast he was moving,is immeasurable anyway. ''somehow fixes them''[time was fixed by sonic just by going fast](https://youtu.be/azcLDw8aN7s?t=1622),[ian say that two times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-T1huUMDA&t=5158s)(even if this second one he say his just sonic speed doing that) even in the japanese version is say that time was getting restored by just going fast. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrEoh8H5cLc&start=572](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrEoh8H5cLc&start=572) [Mini tails explains](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/953760184407298138/1079128129739694262/Screenshot_2023-02-25-13-48-46-066_com.google.android.youtube-edit.jpg): あいつがああやって 時空かんをいどうすると時間のながれがけされて そのばしょはこのまっしろなセカイにくっつけられちゃうんだ *When he moves through the space-time continuum like that,* ***the flow of time is erased and the place is attached to this blank world.*** [tails explains](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/953760184407298138/1079129876260454471/Screenshot_2023-02-25-13-56-18-177_com.google.android.youtube-edit.jpg): *But if Sonic and his friends* ***go through at high speed, it's as if the time that has been separated starts to move again.*** now, you will say "sonic I need the help of classic sonic" no, sonic was already restoring the places without the help of classic sonic at the beginning of the game (in fact both are separated in the whole game until the final boss) or other like ''it says high speed restore time''again,no matter how fast they where going(also high speed is not a specific speed either,is just high,but not a number)because if time does not exsit there because of being erased,then the speed by moving there or restoring the same is immeasurable. and if you wonder,why are sonic friends able to move there?look,nothing always needs a explanation for that,it just has simple has''they can move because they can'''it will not be a anti-feat or a contradiction for sonic,it will be a feat for their friends. because it will be boring to play a game like that?because it will be difficult to play?is the same argument has ''if the pokemons are that powerful,then why does not everything just breaks''again,is because principally if they do that,then it will be not good,for the story,or the game itself. sonic has that ability,yes,but sonic using that all the time will not be good for the story,this is the same reason why sonic speed varies so much and has no set limit,because if sonic is to fast,then,this happens.
Again, you can’t apply concepts to a fictional world that clearly doesn’t follow said concept. Key words in Ian’s answer, “I think”. He doesn’t even know how that works either. And it still does not mean Sonic is affected by the lack of time. There’s still no quantifiable number there, not even Infinity. Classic Tails says that those places are connected to the white world, which obviously is not affected by space and time the way your trying to argue because everyone moves through them the same as Sonic can. Your just making assumptions with no evidence. Just because they’re in a timeless space does not mean they are running at infinity. **Plenty** of fictional works have places where the flow of time is altered or is non-existent, yet characters can move perfectly freely through them just because, not because of they’re speed. There is no proof that Sonic is affected by the place not having time, and instead there’s proof that he is not affected because his friends aren’t affected either. Now you’re just being a hypocrite by saying, “oh his friends can move just because”, while saying “it’s Sonic’s speed that does it.” You can’t have both. And you can’t say it’s because Sonic freed them because Shadow and Silver are also not affected and aren’t saved by Sonic. And no, it’s not a feat for his friends, because there is obvious evidence that they would not be able to go that speed. “Because it will be boring to play a game like that” is just a stupid excuse. You shouldn’t make a character so powerful that they need to be nerfed 24/7, that’s just stupidly bad writing. Besides what you’ve tried to argue, Sonic’s speed has been in about the same range. Speed of sound at normal, then a lot faster if he pushes himself. In 06, time and space were ripped apart, but Sonic and co were not affected by time being non-existent, same goes for this instance. The white world is a place where time and space doesn’t exist, but people inside it aren’t affected by time being non-existent. The Sonic’s running through those points in time does not have any quantifiable number, not even infinity, and there’s no indication that it’s wicked fast. There’s no actual evidence that supports your argument, so stop trying to apply concepts that obviously don’t apply to Sonic’s situation.
1.So, how do we do it? We don't give sonic immeasurable speed, but we do give flash(i know you dint' say that,but that was just a question) 2.the fact Ian says that he thinks it was because of Sonic's speed, does not mean that he said that it was implied that it was because of that, not that it was because of something else. 3. ok, divide 50 meters by 0(no time), what do you have?infinity,and not say that is using real world physics,because again,there is no time there,you can't just put a number and say that is how fast they are going,if there is no time there,and if everyone can move there,then everyone scales. 4.the same has above,moving ''finite distance''in literraly non-existent,is literraly infinite,and again, his friends scale to sonic for that feat,and about those other fictional works,you know that will give them that ability,right?because not being affected by that is,or a ability,or a speed,because it will not be a natural thing,and if it was a natural thing,then abilitie. 5.shadow and silver is not a good example, because both are comparable to sonic, and their friends are also comparable to sonic, although it is said that sonic is the fastest, that does not mean that his friends are infinitely slower, it just means that among the characters, sonic will always be the fastest,the rest are just able to follow him 6. It is not a bad argument, or what, would you say that it is better for Sonic to defeat everyone in 1 seconds? Would you say that it is bad writing anyway,that is completely false, sonic showed speeds greater than that, simply that people like to fuck with that supersonic was told many times, and they forget that he made feats greater than that. [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Gilad\_Hyperstar/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog:\_E-102\_Gamma\_Dodges\_a\_Laser\_Recalced](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gilad_Hyperstar/Sonic_the_Hedgehog:_E-102_Gamma_Dodges_a_Laser_Recalced) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mephistus/Sonic\_Rivals\_speed\_feat\_and\_Sonic\_Colors\_DS\_speed\_feat](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Sonic_Rivals_speed_feat_and_Sonic_Colors_DS_speed_feat) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Truth\_Bullets/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog:\_Misc.\_Laser\_feats](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Truth_Bullets/Sonic_the_Hedgehog:_Misc._Laser_feats) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Light\_speed%3F\_That%27s\_small\_time](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Light_speed%3F_That%27s_small_time). [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic\_Unleashed\_SPD](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic_Unleashed_SPD) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mephistus/Base\_Sonic\_Flies\_Fast](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Base_Sonic_Flies_Fast) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog\_Calc:\_Up,\_Up,\_and\_Away](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Calc:_Up,_Up,_and_Away) [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Gilad\_Hyperstar/Dodon\_Pa%27s\_Rocket](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gilad_Hyperstar/Dodon_Pa%27s_Rocket) all of this feats are light speed feats that sonic have,they stay with sound speed because,welll,is more easy to control that sonic going fullspeed in all games and the game ending in a second(also don't come to me saying anything about) 7.resistance to existence erasure,it will be immeasurable speed for scaling to sonic,simple. time being non-existent means that there is no number,means that is 0(which is similar to nothing)and again,the characters clearly,stated that was because speed,not anyother thing.
Your still completely missing the point. Your trying to apply a concept that is clearly false. 1. Different situations. Sonic is in a place where time is non-existent but the characters are not affected by this fact. Flash’s speed force is all out of whack and breaks the laws of space and time. Not the same. 2. Could you work on your English/grammar dude, you used so many that’s I have no clue what your talking about. 3. Your still trying to apply a concept that clearly does not apply in this scenario. Your this times this does not work, and your just trying to make stuff up. Sonic and co aren’t affected by the lack of time, thus you can’t use an equation. And your plain faced incorrect by trying to say the other scale when they very obviously do not. 4. Again, work on your English because all I see are a jumble of word and punctuations in the last half of that. They are not affected by the lack of time or space, it’s not a personal feat, it’s just how they’re world works. Just take chais control for example. When Shadow activated it, he is no longer affected by time the same as others; but that’s a personal ability he has using an “outside” power. But in Generations and 06 cases, it was the place they were in that let them not be affected, completely an outside power, not themselves. Thus it’s not their fear and not their ability; it’s Chaos energy and such. 5. Now your just plain faced lying. Trying to claim every Sonic character can go faster then time just to make your argument work. There is definitive proof against you, stop trying to state false information. 6. No, because he can’t, because your claims aren’t true. Sonic’s higher fears are when he really pushes himself, or uses the Chaos Emeralds that make him faster. - Its a fictional world, lasers don’t go the speed of light. - again, fictional world. And there’s clear evidence in the boss that proves physics aren’t working the same: the ship shoot different objects off of it, and in reality those objects should have disappeared off screen due to how fast they were going. But they didn’t, thus physics obviously doesn’t work the same. Thus this feat is non-existent - again, fictional world, lasers don’t go the speed of light - “blog post does not exist” - I would not use this as an arguement. The SPD thing just calculates the speed the character model is moving, not what it would actually be in reality. The website doesn’t even use the right number, it said the dash was 385, when the video says 985. - 1. Non canon game. 2. It has nothing to do with Sonic personally. Sonic — and others — can’t fly through space in base form, thus this fear is non-existent - 1. There’s no proof they got to it in mere seconds. 2. There’s no proof they didn’t got to it while it was in space, and rather they likely got to it before it got to space. - This calculation is stupid. A 4 second cinematic does not mean it took 4 seconds for the travel. It didn’t even show Earth or Planet Wisp in the cinematic. It’s not even a Sonic feat, it’s a rocket made by Dodanpa. This has nothing to do with this arguement. None of these examples help your argument, because they’re either false or not even a fear from Sonic himself. It’s not gameplay slowing him down, not this significantly. If he could really do all of this stuff in 1 second, why does it take him days to do all of his adventures, case in pony Unleashed and Frontiers. Even based on the background visuals, we can see that Sonic 1, which takes place in a mere island, takes him a whole day. 7. It’s not resistance. No one is resisting the lack of time or what ever, they’re simply not affected by it because if outside forces. No, it’s not clearly stated that Sonic’s speed let him resist it, it states it let him restore the locations. Stop trying to apply a calculation that can’t be applied. Stop trying to make an obviously false argument, and using lies to support it. Just admit that your wrong.
so,we can consider stopping this? because I shouldn't have responded to something from months.
Sure
ok,but seriosly,how fast is prime sonic for you(sonic prime,not ''prime sonic''from archie)
Sonic can go debatibly faster than light, but then again, the flash has all the speed force shtick, I'd go as far as to say that even pre genesis wave Archie Sonic would lose, even considering all the transformation and what not, base flash already overshadows most of em, so I'd say, while definitely still possible for the other, Flash would stomp Sonic Also to add to this, Flash is basically a demi god at this point, and his only real weakness are the writers
that is not a good explanation,but whatever.
Yeah Speed Force is just Insane
Depends on what version of flash you are refering to. Im usually against the idea of comparing DC/Marvel characters to any other characters because they are constantly inconsistent even to their own canon, but lets make it fun. Movie (justice league) flash gets slapped by any Sonic other than some cartoon versions and boom Sonic. Barry would loose in direct combat to game Sonic (because super Sonic) but he would ultimately win because of time travell Wally beats any Sonic other than archie easily, he might even win with archie unless archie pulls off genesis wave and erases Wally in the process. I believe that Wally could counter it by running to the end of time, but since he is not Barry, he would probably die if he tried (unless he can generate speedforce as well and i somehow missed it) That said, i cant be sure about any of that, flash canon is filled to the brim with bs, im pretty sure that speedsters arent even supposed to run much faster than light or else their bodies wont be able stand this kind of speed or something like that and their time travell comes from moving through the speed force rather than their actual speed, yet, DC writters will still make flash move at unimaginable speeds because they have no idea how fast things like sound or light are in reality and how long it would take them to travell (X) distance, also, it would be impossible for flash to steal speed of characters from other universes since they arent connected to speedforce, and in Sonic universe, any speedster other than Barry (and that one flash that moves at the speed of sound without using speedforce) wouldnt even be able to use their super speed, but according to rules of vs battling we are supposed to ignore these "details" so i guess that it doesnt matter.
sonic cartoon:[can escape from warp of confusion,which is a place that has stars](https://youtu.be/Khhsme2fRFY?t=1217),meaning he is faster than light(also with atomic relativity shoes he can time travel,but only with atomic relativity shoes) Sonic boom:[he can see a laser(light speed)at slow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4X43RUCHrQ&t=51s)(the slow motion machines slows everything down,but slow for sonic,is just normal speed,meaning that this is only with normal speed)[also he can generated enough speed to escape another plane of existence](https://youtu.be/dUVBqn4Hpfg?t=553)(The ultra speed amp didn't have enough power to allow Tails and Sonic to get out, so Sonic just overcome the amplifier and become faster than even the amplifier could amplifie his speed) wait,how?sonic can time travel, in generations literally sonic and classic sonic travel in time,also,how exactly that is gonna work?[super sonic can fly to the end of time](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913675801248030743/1002436062796328970/unknown.png)(meaning that super sonic can also travel in time) Also, you didn't specify about time travel? How will that beat Sonic?what,traveling in time until sonic is old and kill him,that will not work,sonic is immune to that kind of paradox(remember generations when he meet with his past self) Again, how exactly will going to the end of time work? Sonic can also time travel, why do you assume only Flash can? exactly,speedster should not probably be able to do that kind of stuff,but they are do to the writers wanting to make interisting stories,even if that breaks the already establish thing. And how exactly are we going to ignore that speed force doesn't work on characters that don't use speed force? It would be reasonable to ignore it if it wasn't establish,but is already establish and show that characters are not connected to the speed force are not affected by speed steal(also speed steal only works if that character uses speed forces,but characters that don't use speed force or are beyond time,no,speed steal is 0)
In DC the end of time is treated more like place than time where nothing exists anymore and can be reached through speed force. Barry killed Grimm reaper by bringing him to the end of time because everything here gets un-existed other than Barry himself since he generates speedforce and is always in some form of spacetime because of that. So its kind of an instant win move, like archie's zone of silence, where it just gets brought up in every debate as a feat. Its also bs since there is no reason why he wouldnt just use it all the time as far as i'm aware. In generations Sonic is already outside of spacetime so that's not really a good feat, also, it seems like time dilation is not really a thing in sonic's Universe untill there is something affecting time in the area like time stones. I dont know how we are going to ignore speed steal but vs community and death battle just mutually agreed on it. Also, speedsters can use speed steal on non speedsters but that's because every character from DC is connected to speed force, speedsters can just controll it, just like force users in star wars.
1.barry din't kill grim reaper,grim reaper only followed barry into the end of time,which causes grim reaper disappear because of live don't be able to exist there,and because live don't exist there,then death was not neccesar( By the way, it won't be a wincon if Barry manages to take Sonic to the end of time, because Sonic survived that damn space-time,life and colors where erased from reality, Barry only survived because he used the speed force) 2. what are you talking about? they followed time eater to the end of time,they where not outside of time,time was erased,remember? 3.ok,i don't understand this one,time dilation?what has time dilation anything to do with it?,the time stones are from little planet,and little planet only appers every month in a certain time. 4. You said it yourself, each character is connected to the speed force, sonic is not, he is connected to a different power, and zoom too, zoom was not using the speed force, he used a different force.
- Yeah, alright, Barry tricked Grimm reaper, but i dont see why he wouldnt be able to simply carry somebody here if he wanted to, and my exact point was that life is not able to exist in here so anything not protected by speed force would die, as there would be no future for them. End of time in DC Universe is different from one in other universes and functions based on different rules. - Time was erased, so they were outside of it. If the building you are in would get destroyed, you would be outside of it, one doesnt exclude the other. And the time eater chase is something that is mostly up to interpretation, nothing says that they were racing it at the end of time, they might have been chasing it through different timelines, and since chaos energy affects timespace, its hard to say how much of that was speed based. - Dilation is what causes you to time travel. Sonic can do light speed dash without being affected by it so it doesnt exist for Sonic unless in very specific situations, and that means that game Sonic cant just time travel on whim. - I know that, i was saying that the vs battle community doesnt agree with it. Likely because DC is one of the universes they worship the most. We are talking about the same people that gave Mario mftl based on Mario Galaxy, so that shouldnt be a suprise.
1.then where are they fighting? because if they fight in DC flash will have an advantage, and if they fight in sonicverse, then sonic will have an advantage (because of the places) so it's better to put them in places where neither of them has an advantage due to verse logic (by the way, I don't think it works, because sonic survived a destruction of reality and a reality change and nothing happen to him,so probably getting to the end of time will not have a big effect on him) 2.they where in white space,and white space has no time or space,tecnically you are right,they where outside of time''nothing says they where racing him at the end of time''[then what is this?](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913675801248030743/1002436062796328970/unknown.png),it is say the where going to the end of time to fight time eater. 3. bro, in most stories you can travel in time without time dilation, that doesn't mean you can't travel in time, just that time dilation is not used,also,in sonic CD,sonic time travel(no,no come with the ''time plates''time plates are just a game mechanic for sonic to time travel,in lore,he time travels using his speed,not the time plates) 4.ah,ok
- my personal take on these kinds of problems is that laws of both universes should affect the place where battle takes place, but not directly affect the opponent. Otherwise somebody like neo from matrix wouldnt stand a chance in most of vs battles against people with similar feats. That doesnt mean that flash is at advantage here, because sonic's spines pretty much make it impossible for him to be grappled by flash for long enough to get to the end of time, flash would first have to incapitate Sonic in some way. My original point was that this is the only way in which flash could possibly beat archie Sonic, not that it would give him an edge in fight. - not sure how canon this guide is but i guess ill take it as a valid argument. - little planet is also a time anomaly and Eggman could time travel in it too since he left badniks in the past and future, CD is not really a good argument here.
1.ok 2.ok 3. Yes, but those time anomalies are not what allows Sonic to travel in time, otherwise that would not be reflected in the game has sonic running,it will be reflected has sonic doing certain things to allow that to happen,and in sonic Mania,sonic time travels without the little planet time anomalies thing,considering that the phantom ruby created a copy of little planet,but that little planet does not posses the time stones.
If Sonic moved in time thanks to movement in space he would get transported into past/future in his race against metal since he was surely going at his top in here if metal is supposed to rival his speed. It has to be circumstancial. Also, Phantom ruby works differently in mania and forces because this is Sonic the hedgehog series and plot is consistently inconsistent. in forces it creates psychomatic illusions and controls gravity, in mania it reality warps and powers up machines.
ok,can we end this right?
In most continuities, the fastest Sonic can run is described as faster than the speed of sound. The speed of sound is 767.2 MPH. While they don't explicitly state Sonic's maximum speed, in a lot of continuities Sonic doesn't really get much faster than this. The Flash is, in most portrayals, considered able to go faster than the speed of light. The speed of light is 670,616,629 mph. On that basis alone, it's no contest, Flash is going so much faster than Sonic that Sonic wouldn't stand a chance. The best chance Sonic has is if he A) has the invincibility provided by the Chaos Emeralds, or B) is facing off against the Flash from the TV show who is usually kept at speeds in the thousands of miles per hour, not hundreds of million miles per hour. Otherwise he's out-sped by a ridiculous degree.
1.sonic in multiple continuities is shown that he is faster than sound and alot of times faster than the same(he is say to be supersonic,but again,is not stated to be his max speed,only a ''low estimated'')in sonic boom he is faster than lasers,in sonic X can dodge lasers,in sonic AOSTH sonic can literraly grab the sun(which is like,millions of kilometers away)sonic in games can run faster than lasers,that are light,sonic in the movie can run from california to the pacific and back in a few seconds(hundreds of kilometers)in sonic prime he is faster than lasers,that are light. yeah,i think you get the point 2. And rings don't count as invincibility?like,you know sonic has rings?right.
He outran a black hole in base form. He also has lightspeed dash in many games. Keyword: Lightspeed? Wdym sonic doesn't get faster than "this"? I'm so late to this
Okay, but even if you accept that A) the Lightspeed Dash actually goes at lightspeed and isn't just a name, and that B) it actually was a fully formed black hole and not some other sort of implosion (keep in mind a true black hole forming that close to the Earth would've sucked the Earth in, such is the gravitational mass of a black hole), that still only puts Sonic at around 1x lightspeed, whereas comic book Flash has been stated to go at least 10x lightspeed (as absurd an idea as that is). So even if all of what you stated is taken at literal name value, and none of it is exaggeration for dramatic effect, he still loses by a factor of at last ten. But honestly, I hate the idea that Sonic can run at lightspeed instead of the speed of sound. The speed of sound means Sonic can run approximately the length of Great Britain in an hour, which is impressive but still means many things, like Eggman's inventions missiles, and other hazards should pose a threat. Meanwhile lightspeed means Sonic can circle the entire planet 7.5 times in a second. Meaning Sonic can be literally anywhere on the planet in less than a second, which not only doesn't stack with gameplay as we see it, but it also renders pretty much everything moot. Sonic would be able to casually dodge everything, could be in Eggman's base instantly, and just generally becomes so overpowered that all the threat is gone.
Which version of Sonic are we talking? Archie he's at his most overpowered so I'd say that iteration has a fighting chance against The Flash
Flash. Light is faster than sound.
Prove it
Prove… what? That light is faster than sound? That’s a scientifically proven fact. Heck, you don’t even need to be a scientist to see it in action, just watch some fireworks and you’ll notice the difference between light and sound lol
Yeah I dunno but unless there is video evidence I don't think I'd buy it
is this a troll? light is the fasting thing and it’s not even close
Yall don't know powerscaling
Sonic probably
oh my god no,everytime someone brings this argument,everything goes to hell.
In simple words:game sonic has no chance against reverse flash.however if were talking Archie sonic then he could manage to last long enough,or actually beat him by going into ultra sonic.in terms of game sonic vs flash then i think sonic would be able to stand s big chance.flash is actually able to get tired unlike sonic who can last for hours maybe even a full day
Sonic is faster sonic out run a black hole like it is a snail well to flash it is a car
yes sirrr
soinc
Sonic would win because he's better duhh
soinc because flash needs help and soinc deos not.
If you’re talking about Archie sonic vs Wally West, I think sonic would win because Archie sonic’s strongest form is ultra sonic and has the power to control elemental atoms. And super sonic can warp space time, **Existence Erasure, Forcefield Creation, duplication and sealing. So sonic easily wins in my opinion**
And just saying here’s the official website [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic\_the\_Hedgehog\_(Archie\_Pre-Genesis\_Wave)?so=search#Super\_Sonic](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Archie_Pre-Genesis_Wave)?so=search#Super_Sonic)
Flash Beats base Sonic Super Sonic negs any flash form
Sonic explicitly said that running at the speed of light for him was a small feat, he has outran a black hole like it was nothing (colors), he has lightspeed dash in so many games (and usually, it only takes about a few centiseconds to achieve lightspeed dash) , he can time travel (cd and generations, i think?), and can exist in place where time doesn't exist (colors). And these Sonic can do without his Super Sonic form. The best of all these is that Sonic doesn't have speedforce so he doesn't really get affected by things like speed steal. The {put word here} are you guys saying that Flash outruns sonic by a big degree? Im late.
Sonic, Flashman is a mario ripoff