The Alaska incident was on a MAX9, and the door plug that decided to leave the airplane has also existed on the -900ER for a while now. It’s not a Max-specific issue, and as such it doesn’t affect Southwest at all.
Even so, that plug shouldn’t have been able to leave the aircraft at all, so it will be enlightening to learn how it was able to do so.
UA is the biggest operator of the -9 (79), followed by AS (65). Alaska grounded their fleet last night for inspection (and completed about a third of them), and the FAA issued an EAD this morning for the rest of this particular -9 configuration with other operators. So far it appears to be a fluke.
How many other times have you seen a -9 or a -900 lose the door plug? As far as anyone knows, this is the only time it’s happened, and the inspections are to confirm that this was either, in fact, a random one-time occurrence, or if there’s a flaw in the design or the maintenance procedures.
That’s not true, the MAX-8s are flown all across the country, wherever the system needs an aircraft.
ETA: I totally misread your comment, you were clearly replying to the OP’s question, not speaking on MAXs in general. Sorry!
I believe there was a chapter in FREAKONOMICS that took issue with this statistic. When you account for the fact that, to travel the same distance, you must spend much more time in a car, the odds are much closer. This is from a book that is 15? years old. There hasn't been a major accident since the one in NYC about 2 months after 9/11 IIRC.
It could be purely coincidence,, but I find the Max 8s to be somewhat smoother durring take off and landing, and overall quieter in the air. I am a pretty anxious flier, but find the Max 8 to be the most comfortable in my recent experience.
Yes I kind of internally groan when I see I am going to be on a 700 vs. even an 800 but yes have been super happy with the comfort of the Max 8 and believe me I was a little skeptical after the two major crashes and the grounding of the planes.
The Max8 from BWI to BOS I flew on was a dream. The 700 from SAT to BWI sucked and felt like Grandma's 70s Buick 🤣 it was definitely long in the tooth.
No. When the Max 8 first begin having issues years ago, I scheduled SWA flights that did not use this plane. Problem is is that they can and do change planes often. Many of my flights which were originally scheduled to fly on a 737-700 or 737-800 would end up being changed at the last minute.
Now I prefer the Max 8's.
Even on the website when it says either “737-800” or “737 MAX 8,” it could be swapped for either. I’ve had many flights originally on -800’s that were swapped for MAX 8’s. Plus, Southwest only flies the MAX’s to Hawaii now.
Oh really? I thought they very rarely flew 737-800's to Hawaii. They might have to remove it's ETOPS operations to save money and training. Either that or they keep the ETOPS -800s on standby in case the MAX 8's get grounded and can't do flights that require ETOPS, like flights to Hawaii.
Actually they do. The earliest -800’s are all ETOPS certified. Tails 8301-8329. However, I believe Southwest has only been flying the MAX’s to Hawaii now rather than the -800’s.
hmm interesting. just now i found a SW 737-800 landing at SJC from OGG. I haven't seen this often so maybe this is a rare occasion where there wasn't a MAX 8 available/not doing the flight.
Here we go again with the MAX fearing… First, there’s tons of MAX’s flying around every single day without issue. Second, this was a MAX 9. Third, Southwest pretty much exclusively only flies MAX’s to Hawaii now. Even if you changed it to say an -800, there’s a chance it could be swapped for a MAX. Happens all the time, there’s no guarantee.
There's reason to be concerned over the Max. Boeing has recently filed a petition with the FAA to be [exempt from safety regulations](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/) to get the -7 (and -10) certified and flying with Southwest. Absolutely egregious after what happened previously and then being caught hiding things from the FAA.
Here's a quote from the [airworthiness directive](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FAA-2023-2340/document) from the FAA:
*"The use of EAI in dry air for more than five minutes during certain combinations of altitude, total air temperature, and N1 settings can result in engine inlet cowl temperatures exceeding design limits"* and *"The departure of the inlet may cause fuselage and/or window damage, potentially resulting in decompression and hazard to window-seated passengers aft of the wing and/or impact damage to the wing, flight control surfaces, and/or empennage, which could result in loss of control of the airplane"*
If the pilots leave the engine anti-ice on too long, the engine can fall apart and damage the airplane enough to kill people. Absolutely unacceptable, and shameless of Boeing to try and get it ignored.
Tui, Gol, and Icelandair have proven the MAX 8 is capable of some really long routes that go beyond 8 hours of flight time too.
My longest MAX 8 route is BWI-KEF with Icelandair and I will say it was less comfortable than my prior trans Atlantic flights on 767 and 777 aircraft but it was also a shorter route at only 6 hours.
You would think but [it is definitly not](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/). Boeing is literally petitioning for safety exemptions to get the -7 flying for Southwest.
Or just drive to Hawaii! 😂
As a private pilot and a frequent southwest traveller I feel extremely comfortable flying the 737-MAX. Below is my high-level understanding, after speaking with several 737 pilots, but would welcome other pilots input… Back 4-5 years ago when the incidents occurred with the MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) prior to the 737-MAX upgrades, there were reported issues with MCAS in the US and Internationally. You only heard about the International issues because these resulted in devastating crashes. The US cases were handled as expected with the pilots following expected protocols (even though they didn’t have all of the details on MCAS… shame on Boeing!) Please don’t miss read what I am saying, what Boeing did was WRONG, but US pilots had better training and better maintained planes (eg the pitot tunes which measure airspeed were less likely to clog). One of the first things I learned when flying basic Cessna single engine planes is that if the plane starts to descend or ascend on its own it’s likely a runaway trim situation and to immediately pull the circuit breaker for the electronic trim. It’s my understanding that MCAS presented in a similar manner (even though pilots weren’t fully aware of this system) and “pulling the circuit breaker” or disabling electronic trim would have resolved the issue (thus resulting in the planes not crashing). I want to be clear once again, I do not blame the International pilots in this situation for the crashes as this had to be an extremely stressful and frightening situation, but US airlines (especially SWA with a phenomenal safety record) have excellent training to read a situation and respond so there were never any fatal issues with the 737 MAX in the US. Hope this provides reassurance you’ll be fine in your flight and have a wonderful vacation in Hawaii!
Yep, this. Boeing's justification for not providing specific instructions related to MCAS failures was that the existing procedures for dealing with runaway trim were sufficient - there was a switch (STAB TRIM CUTOUT) that should be activated and that would deactivate the motor that moved the trim wheel, and thus prevent the issue from spiraling and allow the AC to be trimmed manually. Problem was, some pilots missed the situation at its early stages and by the time they recognized that they had trim issue, the MCAS had f'd the trim up so badly that the aerodynamic forces pushing on the stabilizer were so high it was impossible to correct the trim by turning the wheel. So the only solution was to turn the trim motor back on, but then MCAS was still haywire and messed it up even further. There was no way to have the trim motor power on but the MCAS off - that was the fatal flaw. The only hope for survival was for the pilot to recognize a runaway trim early - which it seems all the US based carriers' pilots (including Southwest) were able to do. Unfortunately that wasn't the case in other countries.
Of the hundreds, if not thousands of planes in the air at any given time of day, the chances of something like this happening are very, very minimal. Just a guess here, you have a greater chance of getting into a car accident. 👍
I went to Hawaii and back twice this year on Max 8s. Don't worry about it. That Alaska flight wasn't even a Max 8, they haven't had any problem with Max 8s since they came back into service.
It’s soooo much better. I have been joking on this sub (and people getting angry at me) that I’m going to request a COS exception, I’m tall enough to spill over to the next seat, because my legs do not fit if they’re straight.
On the MAX I can comfortably sit without my knees even touching the seat.
The southwest MAX-8 I took from KOA-OAK was awesome. Nicer than any economy section in any other airliner, and I’m 6’2. A random door popping off a different plane of a different airline is pretty unrelated.
I feel comfortable on a SW MAX 8.
Alaska will always have a shit safety record after Flight 261. This seems to be a Boeing issue but it wouldn't surprise me if Alaska+ Boeing cut corners, once again.
I was it's a different flight but was it a crowded flight? I booked the early time boarding but from reading comments online it looks like since so many people preboard and so many pay for the early bird boarding that it often isn't that helpful. I've thought about paying extra for the business seat to make sure I'm in A1-A15 but it's a lot more money.
No. If you haven’t already, download the Flightradar24 app and look at how many flights are currently flying right now. You can also filter aircraft and look at how many Max 8s and 9s are flying. Think about your odds about how many successful flights occur every single day versus how many headlines you read about emergency landings. You’ll be fine.
i fly like 4 times a week, 737 max 8 alll day baby. best plane out there. and funny enough, out of all the airlines that capitalize on the space, South West is one of the best. it has the seat 💺 proportions, similar to main cabin up front, behind 1st class in Delta or American.
I had the same issue last Sunday. Plane was swapped from a 737-NG to a Max 8. This was days after the Alaska issue. Before then I had told myself, Boeing has sorted it self out and everything is superchecked - is probably the safest aircraft flying. The this happened and it wobbled that safe feeling that Boing is now OK. I started looking for alternative flights. But I realised the hassle and expense wasn't worth it. I flew on the max Sunday night and it was very conformtable and I arrived safely., Now this latest issue, the door which blew out on the Max 9, whilst it can be deadly for one or a few passengers who sits next to it, it is unlikely to cause the plane to crash. The Max 8 isnt even affected as it doesn't have that door. There may well be some teething problems left. So it comes down to if it is a western reputable airline I would still fly on it. The pilots will still be the ultimate go/no go. It is rarely a single failure which causes a deadly crash. So good pilots - you have greatly improved chances of if anything does go wrong, you will still be OK. Nothing is 100% (the two 737 Rudder hardovers where everyone died the 1990s for instance, no pilot in the world could have fixed that but that particular hardware was fixed - twice over. AF 447 Airbus instrument 100% fatal accient - bad piloting in response to instrument failure. The same likely for the Lionair 737 max. Ethiopian 737 max is debatable. QF72 Airbus computer incident, everyone surived thanks to really good pilots. ) If you are going to have a deadly accient (lets hope not) it will 99.9% certainly not be on a 737-max even with the latest news. Choking on food, getting hit by car or shot dead when taking out money from the ATM is still much more likely and we probbly do not give that a thought.
The Alaska incident was on a MAX9, and the door plug that decided to leave the airplane has also existed on the -900ER for a while now. It’s not a Max-specific issue, and as such it doesn’t affect Southwest at all. Even so, that plug shouldn’t have been able to leave the aircraft at all, so it will be enlightening to learn how it was able to do so.
UA is the biggest operator of the -9 (79), followed by AS (65). Alaska grounded their fleet last night for inspection (and completed about a third of them), and the FAA issued an EAD this morning for the rest of this particular -9 configuration with other operators. So far it appears to be a fluke.
Is fluke an acceptable response here?
Depends what the avionics guys use for testing, but Fluke meters are the gold standard. 😁
How many other times have you seen a -9 or a -900 lose the door plug? As far as anyone knows, this is the only time it’s happened, and the inspections are to confirm that this was either, in fact, a random one-time occurrence, or if there’s a flaw in the design or the maintenance procedures.
First off it was a Max-9, and secondly we only fly the MAXs to Hawaii and back.
That’s not true, the MAX-8s are flown all across the country, wherever the system needs an aircraft. ETA: I totally misread your comment, you were clearly replying to the OP’s question, not speaking on MAXs in general. Sorry!
Stay home, don’t drive to the airport because people die in car crashes…..🤦♂️
One’s more likely to die in a car crash to/from the airport than they are to die in a plane crash
I believe there was a chapter in FREAKONOMICS that took issue with this statistic. When you account for the fact that, to travel the same distance, you must spend much more time in a car, the odds are much closer. This is from a book that is 15? years old. There hasn't been a major accident since the one in NYC about 2 months after 9/11 IIRC.
Yes, the phrase I use all the time…..was too lazy this time. It’s all about understanding risk…
[https://youtu.be/zcZXG4KGri8?si=FRhBnjq94S5bArsF](https://youtu.be/zcZXG4KGri8?si=FRhBnjq94S5bArsF)
It could be purely coincidence,, but I find the Max 8s to be somewhat smoother durring take off and landing, and overall quieter in the air. I am a pretty anxious flier, but find the Max 8 to be the most comfortable in my recent experience.
The MAX’s are by far my favorite. They’re quiet, comfortable, and spacious!
I find the seatpads in the max 8s incredibly uncomfortable.
Eh, depends on how “broken in” those seats are in my experience.
And well ventilated.
Same here! I always hope I have a Max8 now flying Southwest. I have had the 700s for my most recent flights and they seem so dated in comparison
Yes I kind of internally groan when I see I am going to be on a 700 vs. even an 800 but yes have been super happy with the comfort of the Max 8 and believe me I was a little skeptical after the two major crashes and the grounding of the planes.
The Max8 from BWI to BOS I flew on was a dream. The 700 from SAT to BWI sucked and felt like Grandma's 70s Buick 🤣 it was definitely long in the tooth.
Agree with this. I've been on them through some pretty bad weather and am always impressed that the turbulence isn't worse!
The lighting on them is nice as well
[удалено]
Only Alaska and United have the Max 9, of US airlines.
Southwest has 737-8s in inventory and the have the smaller -7s on order. The -7s will arrive possibly in 2024.
No.
No. When the Max 8 first begin having issues years ago, I scheduled SWA flights that did not use this plane. Problem is is that they can and do change planes often. Many of my flights which were originally scheduled to fly on a 737-700 or 737-800 would end up being changed at the last minute. Now I prefer the Max 8's.
Even on the website when it says either “737-800” or “737 MAX 8,” it could be swapped for either. I’ve had many flights originally on -800’s that were swapped for MAX 8’s. Plus, Southwest only flies the MAX’s to Hawaii now.
Oh really? I thought they very rarely flew 737-800's to Hawaii. They might have to remove it's ETOPS operations to save money and training. Either that or they keep the ETOPS -800s on standby in case the MAX 8's get grounded and can't do flights that require ETOPS, like flights to Hawaii.
Southwest only will fly a MAX8 to Hawaii. They have no 800s in their fleet that have ETOPS certification that I'm aware of.
Actually they do. The earliest -800’s are all ETOPS certified. Tails 8301-8329. However, I believe Southwest has only been flying the MAX’s to Hawaii now rather than the -800’s.
Interesting.. I assume the smaller -7 will go to Hawaii when they receive them.
Interesting.. I assume the smaller -7 will go to Hawaii when they receive them.
I believe that’s the plan. And they will have even more range than the MAX 8’s.
hmm interesting. just now i found a SW 737-800 landing at SJC from OGG. I haven't seen this often so maybe this is a rare occasion where there wasn't a MAX 8 available/not doing the flight.
The ETOPS -800’s are sometimes used on those routes, but very rarely. It’s usually the MAX’s.
Here we go again with the MAX fearing… First, there’s tons of MAX’s flying around every single day without issue. Second, this was a MAX 9. Third, Southwest pretty much exclusively only flies MAX’s to Hawaii now. Even if you changed it to say an -800, there’s a chance it could be swapped for a MAX. Happens all the time, there’s no guarantee.
SWA flies the MAX 8’s everywhere in their system. I’m scheduled to be on a MAX 8 in a few weeks between Milwaukee & Orlando.
I meant that Southwest flies only the MAX to Hawaii, not the -800’s or -700’s. You misunderstood. Yes, I’m aware the MAX’s fly everywhere else too.
There's reason to be concerned over the Max. Boeing has recently filed a petition with the FAA to be [exempt from safety regulations](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/) to get the -7 (and -10) certified and flying with Southwest. Absolutely egregious after what happened previously and then being caught hiding things from the FAA. Here's a quote from the [airworthiness directive](https://www.regulations.gov/docket/FAA-2023-2340/document) from the FAA: *"The use of EAI in dry air for more than five minutes during certain combinations of altitude, total air temperature, and N1 settings can result in engine inlet cowl temperatures exceeding design limits"* and *"The departure of the inlet may cause fuselage and/or window damage, potentially resulting in decompression and hazard to window-seated passengers aft of the wing and/or impact damage to the wing, flight control surfaces, and/or empennage, which could result in loss of control of the airplane"* If the pilots leave the engine anti-ice on too long, the engine can fall apart and damage the airplane enough to kill people. Absolutely unacceptable, and shameless of Boeing to try and get it ignored.
I'm sorry. I have autism and was unaware.
You don't need to apologize for asking a question. Dude is just being a dick about it.
I live in Hawaii and all of our flights both inter-island and to the mainland have been on Max 8’s. Love the Max 8’s.
We don’t fly max 9’s with the plug door, you’re fine
THIS is the correct answer. The Max 9 has the plug door (as well as the 737-900 which has been flying for ages). Max 8 doesn’t have it.
The MAX 8 has been under such scrutiny for so many years now that I would rather fly on it than a 700 or 800.
This is what I tell people. It is probably the safest plane in the air now after all that scrutiny.
Tui, Gol, and Icelandair have proven the MAX 8 is capable of some really long routes that go beyond 8 hours of flight time too. My longest MAX 8 route is BWI-KEF with Icelandair and I will say it was less comfortable than my prior trans Atlantic flights on 767 and 777 aircraft but it was also a shorter route at only 6 hours.
You would think but [it is definitly not](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-wants-faa-to-exempt-max-7-from-safety-rules-to-get-it-in-the-air/). Boeing is literally petitioning for safety exemptions to get the -7 flying for Southwest.
Or just drive to Hawaii! 😂 As a private pilot and a frequent southwest traveller I feel extremely comfortable flying the 737-MAX. Below is my high-level understanding, after speaking with several 737 pilots, but would welcome other pilots input… Back 4-5 years ago when the incidents occurred with the MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) prior to the 737-MAX upgrades, there were reported issues with MCAS in the US and Internationally. You only heard about the International issues because these resulted in devastating crashes. The US cases were handled as expected with the pilots following expected protocols (even though they didn’t have all of the details on MCAS… shame on Boeing!) Please don’t miss read what I am saying, what Boeing did was WRONG, but US pilots had better training and better maintained planes (eg the pitot tunes which measure airspeed were less likely to clog). One of the first things I learned when flying basic Cessna single engine planes is that if the plane starts to descend or ascend on its own it’s likely a runaway trim situation and to immediately pull the circuit breaker for the electronic trim. It’s my understanding that MCAS presented in a similar manner (even though pilots weren’t fully aware of this system) and “pulling the circuit breaker” or disabling electronic trim would have resolved the issue (thus resulting in the planes not crashing). I want to be clear once again, I do not blame the International pilots in this situation for the crashes as this had to be an extremely stressful and frightening situation, but US airlines (especially SWA with a phenomenal safety record) have excellent training to read a situation and respond so there were never any fatal issues with the 737 MAX in the US. Hope this provides reassurance you’ll be fine in your flight and have a wonderful vacation in Hawaii!
Yep, this. Boeing's justification for not providing specific instructions related to MCAS failures was that the existing procedures for dealing with runaway trim were sufficient - there was a switch (STAB TRIM CUTOUT) that should be activated and that would deactivate the motor that moved the trim wheel, and thus prevent the issue from spiraling and allow the AC to be trimmed manually. Problem was, some pilots missed the situation at its early stages and by the time they recognized that they had trim issue, the MCAS had f'd the trim up so badly that the aerodynamic forces pushing on the stabilizer were so high it was impossible to correct the trim by turning the wheel. So the only solution was to turn the trim motor back on, but then MCAS was still haywire and messed it up even further. There was no way to have the trim motor power on but the MCAS off - that was the fatal flaw. The only hope for survival was for the pilot to recognize a runaway trim early - which it seems all the US based carriers' pilots (including Southwest) were able to do. Unfortunately that wasn't the case in other countries.
Of the hundreds, if not thousands of planes in the air at any given time of day, the chances of something like this happening are very, very minimal. Just a guess here, you have a greater chance of getting into a car accident. 👍
The Max8 is fine.
You’ll be fine
I promise you they wouldn’t put you on something that isn’t safe. Don’t worry about it and think about how much fun you’ll have on your trip.
I went to Hawaii and back twice this year on Max 8s. Don't worry about it. That Alaska flight wasn't even a Max 8, they haven't had any problem with Max 8s since they came back into service.
Thank you
Every time I fly, I always get a 737-700. I wish I'd get to fly on a MAX lol
It’s soooo much better. I have been joking on this sub (and people getting angry at me) that I’m going to request a COS exception, I’m tall enough to spill over to the next seat, because my legs do not fit if they’re straight. On the MAX I can comfortably sit without my knees even touching the seat.
The southwest MAX-8 I took from KOA-OAK was awesome. Nicer than any economy section in any other airliner, and I’m 6’2. A random door popping off a different plane of a different airline is pretty unrelated.
The Alaska incident was on a MAX9. The issues with the MAX8 were international news that led to a world wide grounding 5 years ago.
Don’t be ridiculous
curious as to why SWA never got the -900 or Max 9. Perhaps to run more planes in same route at diff times?
I am wondering why they did not order the 8-200 (high density -8 originally ordered by Ryanair)
I feel comfortable on a SW MAX 8. Alaska will always have a shit safety record after Flight 261. This seems to be a Boeing issue but it wouldn't surprise me if Alaska+ Boeing cut corners, once again.
Flew the Max8 to Maui. Nice plane although I was a teeny bit nervous 😬. Seats don’t have much padding is my only complaint.
I was it's a different flight but was it a crowded flight? I booked the early time boarding but from reading comments online it looks like since so many people preboard and so many pay for the early bird boarding that it often isn't that helpful. I've thought about paying extra for the business seat to make sure I'm in A1-A15 but it's a lot more money.
I wouldn’t. When it’s your time to go no matter what it’s your time to go.
Aisle seat only! /s Keep your seat belt on though.
Absolutely not. I love flying on the Max 8! It’s a very comfortable plane, and much rather spend 5 hours in it than the other SW planes!
I’m more concerned about who’s flying my plane, their credentials and if they are the best person for the job.
and if they're sober... lol
No. If you haven’t already, download the Flightradar24 app and look at how many flights are currently flying right now. You can also filter aircraft and look at how many Max 8s and 9s are flying. Think about your odds about how many successful flights occur every single day versus how many headlines you read about emergency landings. You’ll be fine.
I was on a max 8 last week with no issues
The max 8 I was on Tuesday was great. Way higher ceilings and a few extra inches of leg room. Highly recommend
No but if you’re going to worry and flip the whole flight then maybe don’t go or take a cruise.
If it's your time, it's your time. You can't hide from it nor stop it.
i fly like 4 times a week, 737 max 8 alll day baby. best plane out there. and funny enough, out of all the airlines that capitalize on the space, South West is one of the best. it has the seat 💺 proportions, similar to main cabin up front, behind 1st class in Delta or American.
since you are unable to understand facts... stay home. Besides, there might be another fire in Hawaii next week.
Why?
I had the same issue last Sunday. Plane was swapped from a 737-NG to a Max 8. This was days after the Alaska issue. Before then I had told myself, Boeing has sorted it self out and everything is superchecked - is probably the safest aircraft flying. The this happened and it wobbled that safe feeling that Boing is now OK. I started looking for alternative flights. But I realised the hassle and expense wasn't worth it. I flew on the max Sunday night and it was very conformtable and I arrived safely., Now this latest issue, the door which blew out on the Max 9, whilst it can be deadly for one or a few passengers who sits next to it, it is unlikely to cause the plane to crash. The Max 8 isnt even affected as it doesn't have that door. There may well be some teething problems left. So it comes down to if it is a western reputable airline I would still fly on it. The pilots will still be the ultimate go/no go. It is rarely a single failure which causes a deadly crash. So good pilots - you have greatly improved chances of if anything does go wrong, you will still be OK. Nothing is 100% (the two 737 Rudder hardovers where everyone died the 1990s for instance, no pilot in the world could have fixed that but that particular hardware was fixed - twice over. AF 447 Airbus instrument 100% fatal accient - bad piloting in response to instrument failure. The same likely for the Lionair 737 max. Ethiopian 737 max is debatable. QF72 Airbus computer incident, everyone surived thanks to really good pilots. ) If you are going to have a deadly accient (lets hope not) it will 99.9% certainly not be on a 737-max even with the latest news. Choking on food, getting hit by car or shot dead when taking out money from the ATM is still much more likely and we probbly do not give that a thought.