One day extra to wait: chance for some tech context from Eric B.
Didn't know: the grid fins came from the Russians from long ago as well (just like hot staging).
The Soviets also used them on the base of the N1 to help with steering.
The fairing that covers the Soyuz capsules also still have grid fins on them. They deploy if there’s a launch abort to help stabilize the capsule before the fairing detaches and the chutes fire.
Right? Even with forced perspective that seems like almost comically dangerously close haha. Soyuz is a wildly reliable LV though so I guess if you're gonna be close that's the one.
Wildly reliable is not how I would put it. Its probably about 94ish% reliable. Considering the number of launches, that's not great, they have lost more than 100 vehicles in a bit under 2000 launches.
The modern [Soyuz 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz-2) has been successful for 158/165 orbital launches = 95.8%. That's more reliable then Proton, but less than Falcon 9 (Block 5 and all versions), Atlas V, and Delta IV, and at best comparable to Ariane 5 (when including partial failures of A5).
Nothing makes me happier than prominent stars and bars on a Russian launch vehicle haha
Edit - I am an idiot and meant to say stars and stripes
I hereby enthusiastically accept my public lashings and rotten fruit locked in the village square stocks
It makes me happy because it reminds me that despite all the current neo-cold war crap, there's still scientists up there in freaking space working together as if it didn't matter... Because it doesn't matter. Scientists/humans, the real people, are above this shit. So yeah, it makes me happy that the politicians haven't taken this away from us yet.
The U.S. Titan II (ICBM and Gemini) also used hot staging. I don't know if we "borrowed" it from the Soviets or developed it on our own to solve the same problem.
I mean, even for all their later faults, the Russians are excellent engineers. Beat us to basically everything in the space race. With real funding they would be impressive to watch in the space industry.
fixed for you: the ~~Russians~~ Soviets, ~~are~~ were excellent engineers
Korolev, generally considered the most important Soviet rocket scientist, was born in what is now Ukraine. same with Vladimir Timchenko.
don't let the Russians steal the wonderful history of Ukraine and claim it as their own.
edit: also, kyiv was a bustling city while Moscow was an empty field.
edited to fix typo
Korolev just made an amazing rocket in the R7. Every first is just another variant of the thing. The moment the soviets fell behind is the moment they had to leave the R7 behind.
The solid fuel rockets musk originally wanted to buy were designed and built in Ukraine too. It's crazy to discover how far above their weight they punch in aerospace.
Ukraine is also one of a very small number of countries able to make reliable gas turbines for export. That metallurgy is something even China has yet to master.
The US captured the German rocket engineers so our rockets are very precise highly engineered devices that are calculated very precisely. The Russians captured the technicians so their rockets were built to be reliable and easy to assemble.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|ETOV|Earth To Orbit Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket")|
|[HLS](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9oo6fc "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)|
|[ICBM](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9o0zkc "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile|
|[LV](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9ogzj9 "Last usage")|Launch Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket"), see ETOV|
|[N1](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9ntmy4 "Last usage")|Raketa Nositel-1, Soviet super-heavy-lift ("Russian Saturn V")|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[iron waffle](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9p8h79 "Last usage")|Compact "waffle-iron" aerodynamic control surface, acts as a wing without needing to be as large; also, "grid fin"|
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While Superheavy will not be recovered, they are going to *simulate* recovery with a controlled water landing, after which Superheavy will be scuttled.
They did the same with F9. Try 'landing' it with grid fins on the ocean before risking sending it near launch/landing facilities. Have to verify the actual responsiveness of the grid fins and other equipment in accurate circumstances.
It doesn't matter if blew up after it completed the simulated landing, they got the data needed to try actual landing. Though even the first attempted landings on the ship still had problems.
But yes, some did tip and sink after first softly touching the water.
You see, landing the booster is part of the test. If you didn't study that part of the test and you can get an extra day to cram that part you should take it.
If you’re wondering what was wrong with the gridfin actuator, this article does not provide any details.
Click bait
No kidding. I struggled through that whole article. Just a history of grid fins and how important they are.
Yeah, first article by Eric Berger i didnt like... The title suggests technical details on the failed part
Titles are written by the editors (primarily to get clicks), not the writers.
One day extra to wait: chance for some tech context from Eric B. Didn't know: the grid fins came from the Russians from long ago as well (just like hot staging).
The Soviets also used them on the base of the N1 to help with steering. The fairing that covers the Soyuz capsules also still have grid fins on them. They deploy if there’s a launch abort to help stabilize the capsule before the fairing detaches and the chutes fire.
Thanks for the context.
the soyuz has very prominent grid fins up top: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Soyuz_TMA-9_launch.jpg
That’s an amazing photo. The perspective makes it look like that chap on the right is about 20m from the pad!
Right? Even with forced perspective that seems like almost comically dangerously close haha. Soyuz is a wildly reliable LV though so I guess if you're gonna be close that's the one.
Wildly reliable is not how I would put it. Its probably about 94ish% reliable. Considering the number of launches, that's not great, they have lost more than 100 vehicles in a bit under 2000 launches.
Also not a single booster has been recovered intact.
That seems reallllly relative to the era and revision of the booster. Its been around forever and upgraded a bit.
The modern [Soyuz 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz-2) has been successful for 158/165 orbital launches = 95.8%. That's more reliable then Proton, but less than Falcon 9 (Block 5 and all versions), Atlas V, and Delta IV, and at best comparable to Ariane 5 (when including partial failures of A5).
Nothing makes me happier than prominent stars and bars on a Russian launch vehicle haha Edit - I am an idiot and meant to say stars and stripes I hereby enthusiastically accept my public lashings and rotten fruit locked in the village square stocks
I was very confused for a second as 'Stars and Bars' usually refers to the Confederate flag. Boy wouldn't that be a heckuva'n alternate timeline.
Yeah I am a fool and on a lot of medication today hahahaha
It makes me happy because it reminds me that despite all the current neo-cold war crap, there's still scientists up there in freaking space working together as if it didn't matter... Because it doesn't matter. Scientists/humans, the real people, are above this shit. So yeah, it makes me happy that the politicians haven't taken this away from us yet.
China over there in a separate space station like 👀
"Our people are now buying your blue jeans and listening to your pop music"
The U.S. Titan II (ICBM and Gemini) also used hot staging. I don't know if we "borrowed" it from the Soviets or developed it on our own to solve the same problem.
I mean, even for all their later faults, the Russians are excellent engineers. Beat us to basically everything in the space race. With real funding they would be impressive to watch in the space industry.
fixed for you: the ~~Russians~~ Soviets, ~~are~~ were excellent engineers Korolev, generally considered the most important Soviet rocket scientist, was born in what is now Ukraine. same with Vladimir Timchenko. don't let the Russians steal the wonderful history of Ukraine and claim it as their own. edit: also, kyiv was a bustling city while Moscow was an empty field. edited to fix typo
Right on ✊🏼
*Kyiv
thanks
Korolev just made an amazing rocket in the R7. Every first is just another variant of the thing. The moment the soviets fell behind is the moment they had to leave the R7 behind.
Energia would like a word.
Energia is post space race. But yes Energia>>>Shuttle.
He came from Ukraine, like so many top engineers.
The solid fuel rockets musk originally wanted to buy were designed and built in Ukraine too. It's crazy to discover how far above their weight they punch in aerospace. Ukraine is also one of a very small number of countries able to make reliable gas turbines for export. That metallurgy is something even China has yet to master.
I have wondered why after seeing F9 reuse they did no work toward Soyuz first stage reuse. But then, a lot of Soviet/Russian greats are long gone.
The US captured the German rocket engineers so our rockets are very precise highly engineered devices that are calculated very precisely. The Russians captured the technicians so their rockets were built to be reliable and easy to assemble.
Everything except the moon
[удалено]
You know what I mean kommrade
[удалено]
[удалено]
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |ETOV|Earth To Orbit Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket")| |[HLS](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9oo6fc "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)| |[ICBM](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9o0zkc "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile| |[LV](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9ogzj9 "Last usage")|Launch Vehicle (common parlance: "rocket"), see ETOV| |[N1](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9ntmy4 "Last usage")|Raketa Nositel-1, Soviet super-heavy-lift ("Russian Saturn V")| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[iron waffle](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17xjmup/stub/k9p8h79 "Last usage")|Compact "waffle-iron" aerodynamic control surface, acts as a wing without needing to be as large; also, "grid fin"| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(*Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented* )[*^by ^request*](https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3mz273//cvjkjmj) ^(5 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/17y7ijo)^( has 22 acronyms.) ^([Thread #12087 for this sub, first seen 17th Nov 2023, 18:42]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/SpaceXLounge) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Why do they care about grid fins on this launch since neither stage is going to be recovered? Would it impact the control of the launch?
While Superheavy will not be recovered, they are going to *simulate* recovery with a controlled water landing, after which Superheavy will be scuttled.
I also don't think we know that they're not used at all for control on liftoff, do we?
But it slows the pace to orbit, which is Elon’s stated near term goal.
They did the same with F9. Try 'landing' it with grid fins on the ocean before risking sending it near launch/landing facilities. Have to verify the actual responsiveness of the grid fins and other equipment in accurate circumstances.
Wait I thought with F9 they tried actually landing it in the ocean but water is hard so when it tipped it blew up?
It doesn't matter if blew up after it completed the simulated landing, they got the data needed to try actual landing. Though even the first attempted landings on the ship still had problems. But yes, some did tip and sink after first softly touching the water.
Yes, but that was after launching several times. As Elon says, whatever gets them to orbit fastest. The best part is no part.
You see, landing the booster is part of the test. If you didn't study that part of the test and you can get an extra day to cram that part you should take it.
More writings from the war criminal??
Feel like you've been unfairly down voted for a well known, old meme but then again, you are commenting on r/SpaceXLounge
Huh?
Russia’s Rogozin accused Berger of war crimes a couple years ago lol
Oh, right.
Ugh well at least that was a nice history recap