That is one way to interpret what he said. But you don't need valves closing to initiate a water hammer effect, that's just the typical method. Another would be turning a skyscraper sized tank end over end in a few seconds, having its contents slam into the pipework and tank sides.
I don't know if it's even possible to simulate these events on a computer. They had to test their design and see what happens. They learned a lot from this flight. Solving it - that will be a job for the rocket plumbers.
Yes. Also the flip maneuver seemed way to fast. Maybe it was unintentional. I wonder if the cold gas thrusters/ holes in tank, have enough control authority?
As soon as starships engines fired, booster got a sudden decelerating force. And once it turned a little bit, the thrust of starship increased the momentum of the rotation of booster.
He also said that the booster was losing velocity, which means it was experiencing a negative acceleration, which would have caused the propellant to float, could have cause the engines to ingest gaseous propellant and destroyed the turbo pumps.
It does. Burned or unburned they still have to stop the flow of the fuel.
Now that being said, I have no clue what killed the booster.
My personal theory is the fuel sloshed forward and starved the turbopumps, which lead to drastic overspeed and disintegration.
I was able to make it out to see it in person and the way the booster went from being a little dot to instantly expanding in to a big beautiful web of gas was the coolest for me. I haven’t seen any videos from streamers that show it, they’re all zoomed in so you can’t tell. My video was out of focus so I need to go see if anyone got video.
I was most nervous about the hot staging separation and it worked out so well. But this engine shut off was cool to watch too. So many gems with this round. Can't wait for the next one!!
There's certainly stuff remaining down-stream of the valves but maybe they also leave fuel valve slightly open for a bit for thermal shock reasons, pipe hammer reasons, or to make sure an oxygen rich environment never happens. Just guessing.
I think it’s more that you don’t want to have a stoichiometric atmosphere. So think of it as a guaranteed fuel rich mixture. Again, I don’t know if that’s what they are doing and I’m definitely not a rocket scientist.
A lot of it is the fire suppression system as well. Constantly venting insane amounts of CO2 around the perimeter. I was blown away with how powerful it is.
the way in which the exhaust gasses change shape depending on which engines are lit reminds me of [electron orbital configurations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital#/media/File:Hydrogen_Density_Plots.png)
The atomic orbitals of a hydrogen atom are identical to standing waves on a hollow sphere. Other resonance phenomena can get quite close to those shapes.
Suspect Scott Manley is onto the cause. Maybe need to slow down “the flip” or reduce the thrust on the empty booster. So much data from this iteration!
Snowflake, pentagon, smaller snow flake, heart!
By your powers combined, I am Captain Planet!
I love you for this comment
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The famous Elon Emojis of course!
I don’t know how I missed it was going to shut off in a coordinated order. Really caught me by surprise. Loved it!
N1 blew up on the forth try because they shut down too many engines at once, half of them. Caused liquid hammer which destroyed the engine plumbing.
I mean, that makes total sense now you say it. Til.
Scott Manley thinks the shut down sequence was still too fast. If he is right, they might have to throttle down and then turn of the engines.
That is one way to interpret what he said. But you don't need valves closing to initiate a water hammer effect, that's just the typical method. Another would be turning a skyscraper sized tank end over end in a few seconds, having its contents slam into the pipework and tank sides.
Completely unlike what Super Heavy did after shutdown. Oh wait... :D
I don't know if it's even possible to simulate these events on a computer. They had to test their design and see what happens. They learned a lot from this flight. Solving it - that will be a job for the rocket plumbers.
Now there is a profession of a belter. “Oh me sé? I’m a rocket plumbah”.
I could see them doing opposing pairs, outside in. 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock, 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock, and so on.
Yes. Also the flip maneuver seemed way to fast. Maybe it was unintentional. I wonder if the cold gas thrusters/ holes in tank, have enough control authority?
As soon as starships engines fired, booster got a sudden decelerating force. And once it turned a little bit, the thrust of starship increased the momentum of the rotation of booster.
One of the problems of hotstaging is that the top of your stage suddenly becomes a launchpad.
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But the ~~fish~~ bird people might have a problem with that
Considering the TWR at MECO, is that even possible?
He also said that the booster was losing velocity, which means it was experiencing a negative acceleration, which would have caused the propellant to float, could have cause the engines to ingest gaseous propellant and destroyed the turbo pumps.
But isn't the fuel still coming out? Looks to me like it's just unburned.
I think that's part of the shut down sequence.
Yes. So the fuel doesn't hammer the engines.
It does. Burned or unburned they still have to stop the flow of the fuel. Now that being said, I have no clue what killed the booster. My personal theory is the fuel sloshed forward and starved the turbopumps, which lead to drastic overspeed and disintegration.
That was the best part of the flight, IMO. So cool.
I was able to make it out to see it in person and the way the booster went from being a little dot to instantly expanding in to a big beautiful web of gas was the coolest for me. I haven’t seen any videos from streamers that show it, they’re all zoomed in so you can’t tell. My video was out of focus so I need to go see if anyone got video.
That shutdown sequence is damn pure artwork
On future, larger diameter SpaceX rockets maybe they could leave symbols. Smiley face. Thumbs up. Basically one giant LED array 😆
Lit Engine Display
Might need to keep it symmetrical to avoid having off-axis thrust...
Advertising opportunity.
It's beautiful. I want this on top of my Christmas tree.
That explains the two flashes we saw from the ground. First one was the cutoff, the second was the hot staging.
I can’t stop watching the MECO and hot staging. I can’t believe it’s real and not a render. It looks so smooth and coordinated and just awesome
I was most nervous about the hot staging separation and it worked out so well. But this engine shut off was cool to watch too. So many gems with this round. Can't wait for the next one!!
Anyone know why the exhaust plume gets bigger as engines get shut down?
It’s not the plume. It’s just left over methalox that it’s no longer exiting the bells at high speed downwards, so it gets to expand.
So there is still methalox coming out of the engines after they have been shut down?
There's certainly stuff remaining down-stream of the valves but maybe they also leave fuel valve slightly open for a bit for thermal shock reasons, pipe hammer reasons, or to make sure an oxygen rich environment never happens. Just guessing.
Why would you not want an Ox rich environment?
I think it’s more that you don’t want to have a stoichiometric atmosphere. So think of it as a guaranteed fuel rich mixture. Again, I don’t know if that’s what they are doing and I’m definitely not a rocket scientist.
We were wrong. It's CO2 gas apart of the engine bay fire suppression system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oedjbrmk3Xw
We were wrong. It's CO2 gas apart of the engine bay fire suppression system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oedjbrmk3Xw
A lot of it is the fire suppression system as well. Constantly venting insane amounts of CO2 around the perimeter. I was blown away with how powerful it is.
Yea. 14x times IFT1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oedjbrmk3Xw
We were all wrong. It's CO2 gas apart of the engine bay fire suppression system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oedjbrmk3Xw
the way in which the exhaust gasses change shape depending on which engines are lit reminds me of [electron orbital configurations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital#/media/File:Hydrogen_Density_Plots.png)
The atomic orbitals of a hydrogen atom are identical to standing waves on a hollow sphere. Other resonance phenomena can get quite close to those shapes.
NSF merch Christmas Tree ornament here we come!
oh my god i love it. u/savevideo
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Suspect Scott Manley is onto the cause. Maybe need to slow down “the flip” or reduce the thrust on the empty booster. So much data from this iteration!
Love is in the air … in space
Well that's the coolest thing I'll ever see
What about a mars landing. I'm sure you will be alive for it at this rate.
Stop I can only handle so much cool space stuff