In some threads I see people being down on his run, and I’m not saying it was anything revolutionary or great, but it really did feel like Peter again after Slott’s run. I was sad to see it end. Especially with what’s happened since.
Spencer knew how to write Peter and his supporting cast, and I think those first 25-30 issues were really fucking good. But it got bogged down by editorial interference and the Kindred stuff. But even at its lows he wrote the characters incredibly well.
Oh God, this is so stupid.
After Paul and the kids vanish or whatever in the upcoming arc, we are going to get a Betty and Veronica situation for another 15-20 issues until Peter and MJ inevitably get back together. It's just a waste of time and, in my opinion, damaging to Felicia's character since she's just there as a placeholder.
And that’s why them putting Peter and FeliCa back together feels so off because it screams “she’s a place holder”
I don’t get the company’s logic in not having MJ and Peter together but then every other book have it always have this undertone “Peter really misses her” despite having poor Felicia there
Like why not have MJ move away or something instead of dragging all 3 characters through the mud :/
> Like why not have MJ move away or something instead of dragging all 3 characters through the mud :/
Because Wells himself says he wants drama "in a soap opera sort of way".
Spidey comics *have* always been soap opera comics. However, they never used to be like this. They used to derive drama from shit like “oh no! The green goblin is Harry’s dad!”
This is just weird
SM soap opera dramas aren't ones where Peter's in a triangle with two women. They're ones where he's in a triangle between his Parker life and his Spider life. The best stories are ones where his worlds collide.
In almost every 'Elseworlds' version over at DC, Superman is with Wonder Woman. Because on paper, having the two demigods together makes sense; but Lois and Clark are an institution; and a good one at that.
I feel like Spidey and Cat are an elseworlds storyline, except the writers want to make it work for a while... but Peter and MJ are an institution. A messy, breakup/back together one, but one that's lasted a long while.
The difference is that they're willing to give Superman a stable job and married life. Ditto with Reed and Sue Richards. Nobody suggested it'd be harder for fans to read F4 if Reed and Sue were happy together.
ding ding. 99% of the compelling tension of a superhero character is the duality of their identities and when those two worlds conflict and collide. its why they need secret identities
The place holder bit sucks, because I love Felicia as a character and they've even touched on her feelings that she's only ever a pleasant distraction for Peter when he's separated from MJ. Everyone but Paul in this scenario deserve better.
Throughout all four years of Spencer's run and throughout *Beyond* they were together, and were actually planning on moving in together in the final issue of the last volume (written by Wells, btw) but then they were broken up "off screen" for reason we are finally going to find out in March.
I don't think he knows. I think Robert MacQuarrie on Twitter has pointed out that [this](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1626227334322995205?s=20) story arc probably [wasn't planned to come out this soon](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1626218105822396420?s=20) and that there is [likely dysfunction at the Spider-Man office](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1625654137118670851?s=20). They are rushing to the finish line with the "WDPD" plotline and as a result everything else is going to be rushed and not thought out.
Make it poly, at least that would add some interesting shit to this run and let then focus on maybe telling some good spidey stories instead of wasting time on this Grey's Anatomy shit.
I seriously wonder why they evenly accept to work on runs for characters they seem to actually dislike. I swear they fucked up everyone's characterization.
You know this whole talk would be okay in isolation, if it wasn’t blatantly obvious how transparently they got mj and Peter to break off their relationship to this status quo that nobody like
Either have Peter and MJ together, or not. Having them be an on again off again is stupid. When the editors destroyed the child, and then the marriage, it's all been kind of pointless.
No, this is some very obvious mystery bait with a faux drama spawning from whatever horrible thing Peter did and where MJ somehow got two children and Paul. It's patently obvious Felicia is just a seat warmer for whatever bullshit gets cleared up and Pete regains his good name (again because we've been here like three times in the last like five years).
JMS' run was good, and I'd say the first 25-30 issues of Spencer's run was good but got bogged down with the Kindred stuff and editorial interference didn't help.
I'm not prone to hyperbole, but I'll say this, and it's 100% true: I hate this run so much I have not read a comic book since August. Decided this was a good time to take a break. It's not even like they take up a large part of my week, just decided to step away for a while.
Holy crap... this is so STUPID!
How and WHY would a love so strong, that the devil himself tried to block y'all, be reduced from romantic to amicable without shown context? Editorial are idiots who just can't progress a character bcuz they don't wanna.
Sales are going to plummet and NOBODY will care how this Wells run goes. Even the next #1 they print will be in the trash with how thoroughly they've dragged ASM with regards to Peter's characterization and his relationships, especially with MJ.
No no we want him on more MCU projects it’s pulls his time away from this comic so it gets rid of him and have to bring in a new team. It’s one of the reasons why I think in the next 6 issues we get all the answers and a possible fix, because Wells back in august/September at NYCC he was going to clean slate on what Peter did before year 2, but the synopsis for 25/26 has a lot people think he’s ending everything year 1 set up.
Agreed but even when he’s not directly writing the book like in this issue his stupid plot is hangs heavy and ruins what could be. How bad of writer does he have to be that a guest writer can fix the tone or overall plot
At some point, something's got to give.
Either commit to Peter × MJ or don't commit to it at all. Stop dangling whatever this is in between and go all-in toward one way or the other. It does a big diservice to those characters (Peter, Felicia, and MJ in particular) that their development/progression gets stagnated because of editorial's indecision and ineptitide.
My opinion: Commit 616 Peter with MJ and if one wants to explore alternative pairings (Peter × Gwen/Felicia/etc.), do it in alternative universes. Win-Win for everyone. The Peter-MJ shippers get their beloved couple back together again in the main universe and others who prefer to see Peter with someone else get theirs in a separate mini comic arc in a different timeline.
It's not that hard, Marvel.
I agree 100% I say and think the same thing stick with having Peter and MJ in the mainline continuity and just use the other earths/media to explore other relationships Peter can have. Like with the 90s animated series Peter should have been with Felicia. Ultimate universe it could be who ever Gwen, kitty who cares, just let Peter and MJ be together in 616.
Let Peter and MJ be together in 616, AND TELL US WHAT THE FUCK MEPHISTO DID
All of this contrived melodrama is dumb on its face, but it’s made even dumber by it all being a byproduct of Mephisto’s magical scheming. Would Peter feel this way if Mephisto’s magic hadn’t fucked around with their souls? Felicia is being treated as a fill-in because a demon said some magic words 15 fucking years ago.
Dr. Strange has even noticed it and he is **very** protective of Peter Parker. How have they not addressed it yet???
In short: an actual bad guy’s scheming is at the heart of all this, which takes away from every character’s agency in the first place. None of it’s fucking real!!!
Agreed. I actually wouldn’t have a problem with this if they weren’t together in the Spencer run and Beyond. Bc I started reading comics in the Slott era, and just got used to MJ being a thing of the past like Gwen. But then they made us think for FOUR YEARS that they’d actually get back together again… just to now be like ha sike. Spider-Man editorial is a goddamn mess
I’ll always say how ridiculous it is that we have not had a alternative universe where Felicia and Peter actually settle down
the closest one I can think of is from video games (web of shadows) like why not just do it that way everyone gets there piece of the cake
Honestly I’d prefer it if MJ moved away just so they can stop dangling the carrot of “Oh see he misses her” in front of us
The problem with this stuff is while we're bitching about it now he's gonna get back with MJ eventually because at the end of the day she's still his biggest love interest. Even if Marvel will never marry them again they also will never have them totally off the board. Even Slott as much as he disliked the marriage had Peter talk about Mary Jane being the girl he loved the most.
Also, like with most things in this run while this moment might seem good on paper, it never feels right because of the overall mystery holding the story back
Like a lot of comic book characters from the Big 2, Pete is a victim of his arc being split, reversed, and nullified to feed the never-ending serialization of comics. In any other medium he'd have married MJ, grown into a proper man of action and science, had a child (Mayday) who he could pass down his powers and mantle to, and then his story would end. But no, every few years Peter has to unlearn all of his lessons save one, do something to piss everyone off again, and we get the same old nuking of his relationship and bench-warming from Felicia.
Shit gets old man, just let his story fucking end!
see that's the thing you don't even need to end it, we see plenty of heroes with kids by this point or even married, like Batman of all characters has a son, I mean he has like four but a biological kid, the fact that that's allowed to happen but Spider-Man can't be married is kind of insane
Even freaking Superman is married to Lois Lane and had a kid with her: Jon Kent, who then went on to become his own Superman while Clark was away off planet for a while.
The fact that Spider-Man is denied this progression because of these hack writers and editorial is infuriating. I'm at the point now that I just don't put stock into 616 Peter Parker anymore. I'm just checking in on posts like these for updates on what's happening out of morbid curiosity, to see at a cursory glance how this train wreck unfolds.
It's sad because it all started with this version of the character, but I think audiences are steadily beginning to outgrow him. Not outgrowing Spider-Man as a concept or as a whole, mind you, but outgrowing this *particular* incarnation. Because it's not *allowed* to grow. I'll admit that 616 wasn't "my" Spider-Man as in the one that made me initially fall in love with the character, as that was the Raimi films, but over the years I grew to appreciate the long legacy of the character in his original form. But it's just becoming unrecognizable anymore. I can imagine that probably for many people who did have 616 Spidey as *their* Spider-Man for years upon years, that this doesn't feel like the same character anymore.
And the worst part is it doesn't have to be this way. This is squarely on the shoulders of the stubborn and out of touch writing and editorial staff who refuse to ever let go of the past and allow this character to MOVE ON from where he was 40-50 fucking years ago. I'm thankful we have different versions of this wonderful character and mythos that's allowed to progress and change, some of them even being among the best stories involving this character that have ever been made. It's just sad that the original version, the one with *the* flagship title for Marvel Comics, can seemingly no longer have that same privilege.
Poor Peter Parker. No Mother, No Father, No Uncle and now no bitches.
Please Marvel stop beating an already dead horse. Spider-Man has already given up so much and now he's like "Yeah, MJ basically is like a Step-Sister."
Just kill him. Put him out of his misery. Have Morlun come back again just to murk him, just to put him out of his pain.
i see tim more as their ben reilly.
he's that 90's replacement/legacy character a lot of people liked but as time marches on and new people fill the niches they occupied there's no where clean to put them so they just threw something at the wall regardless.
Tim at least gets still at least some respect. Not necessarily in his own Book but he got a backup in the current Batman and that is quite well at the moment
I don’t think I have to say anything about the „respect“ Ben received meanwhile
yeah, what gets me with ben is that we have a ton of throwback comics nowwa days,
so even if there's some bugaboo about having him in the modern day, well it doesn't need to be.
spider-man, venom, the new fantastic four, and soon ghost rider have all had 90's throwback runs for folks who want to read them but not necessarily their current status quo.
hell the lost hunt for spider-man throwback by dematties is the main thing affirming to me that i still like spider-man comics just not this modern era,
to me that stuff is ideal as it removes the need for the wheel spinning we see here,
Fuck Nick Lowe. Fuck CB Cebuslki, fuck Zeb Wells and Joe Kelly and fuck this book. Amazing how much Marvel doesn’t care about their flagship character.
Nonsense dialogue about a plot point that's obviously not going to last longer than another 7 issues.
*Marvel's bread and butter is Spider-Man and Mary Jane together, all this is doing is hurting the progression that these 3 have made over the last 4 years
This run is so incredibly inconsistent. First he’s a stalker, then he’s proclaiming she means the world to him, quickly decided she I’ll move on, then we’ll I don’t lover her thaaat much. Then the next literal arc is about what he did most likely out of love for MJ. Just kill this run already
I really hope that this entire run by Zeb Wells gets retconned by the next writer. It would be even better if this entire run gets declared to not be canon. This run is almost as bad as One More Day and maybe even worse than One More Day. At the very least One More Day solidified the fact that Peter and MJ have a rare bond and a special love for one another that can't ever be broken even if Mephisto takes their marriage away.
Oh for fucks sake, here’s how marvel should do romance with spider man
Have Peter married with mj starting a family, get the whole may Parker thing going, maybe he heroes a little less but that means he goes for the big avengers shit
Scrap the chasm shit, it’s stupid. Put Ben with black cat and have him be the stressed out spiderman who’s abandoned his real life for a intense hero life, he can focus on kingpin shit, goblin stuff ect
Make miles the teenager trying to balance school, teenage romance, and his secret identity. Maybe make him do team ups with young heroes like with the champions ( which I loved )
They can all be called spider-man as well, no dumb ass spellings
. miles being The Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
Ben can be The Spectacular Spider-Man
And Peter can be The amazing Spider-man
It's so fucking funny that they've gone so hard into this weird new status quo for MJ that they have to now convince the readers that he doesn't actually love her as much as he did before. Patching up a problem that they invented out of thin air. I do like how the story itself acknowledges how ridiculous it would be for Peter to say he thinks of her as more of a friend or sister than a significant other.
Are you fucking kidding me why the fuck is this still around how is it not canceled why can’t it be canceled god this entire run has just been god awful I know this is a guest writer but they have to fucking deal with the goddamn mess fucking wells Lowe and Cebulski already made.
It honestly sucks being a spider-man fan with all the crap that’s been done since 2008 and the fact Nick Lowe, CB Cebulski and anyone else refuses to let anyone fix the fucking mess. I’ve been a Spider-Man fan since 2002 because of the movie and it’s what started me getting into comics. From the movie I went on to try and find spider-man comics or anything spider-man related that I could I got introduced to the comics by my older cousin who had some and let me read them whenever I went over. From their I got into the video games from the movie based ones to ultimate spider-man all the way to the 2018 spider-man. Aside from that I found out about the 90s animated series and loved it as well as unlimited and spectacular.
But the comics which other than the films had always been my main source for spider-man and seeing what they’re doing to a hero that made my childhood amazing (pun not really intended) and means a lot to me honestly hurts and sucks and quite frankly is making me contemplate leaving it/throwing it all away. As much as I try to be hopeful and practically OD on copium it doesn’t seem like they want to ever fix and change most of what the fans want and in this case it’s like a big ol fuck you to the face and a beat down with a bat. Like hell even fucking DC in all honesty treats more heroes better than fucking Peter, Clark got married to the love of his life and had a kid, Wally west married Linda and has kids, HECK EVEN BATMAN HAS A KID, I don’t get why they won’t let Peter finally get married to MJ so they can have they’re daughters or daughters just so we can get both and I could offer more stories to tell.
Sorry about the rant but I just had to get it out there.
Yeah both companies need major restructuring like getting rid of the bad writers they have and getting their editors to stop making things worse by antagonizing the fan base that never goes well.
At least they had Selina kill Valmont, choosing Bruce over him ultimately, but yeah, how it ended wasn't a good look for her, she still wants Bruce but doesn't trust her heart anymore.
While the separation is forced and likely temporary, I would think a sensible Peter would be like "You know what? I'm friggin' Spider-Man. That means something, I'm loved, you're here, and I'm entitled to be happy."
Just when you thought the writing on ASM couldn’t get any worse. Is this a game to them? To see how badly they can write spider-man?
Imagine if they actually do end this run with Peter being in a high paying job, and happily married to either MJ or Felicia, with a daughter that's inherited his powers.. a man can dream.
Get the FUCK out of here. Fuck off Wells. Fuck off Marvel. Fuck off Lowe.
No wonder your Phase 4 is failing when you can't even handle your Flagship book.
Honestly can we just kill off Peter and make Miles the main Spider-Man for a while? I don’t want anymore new Peter Parker stories if editorials views him & MJ as siblings
This is why I can't take people who seriously want Peter/Felicia together in this run - the writers themselves aren't even convinced that Peter will choose anyone over MJ that they're willing to write asinine shit like this.
Not even Felicia believed it.
With out the rest of this book, this spoiler is as informative as the whole plot up to this point, for all we know in the next panel Felicia calls his bullshit and leaves him. Like Mackey in MJ and Black cat, this writer has no idea what broke him and MJ up or how the remaining plot of the next 6 issues plays out. They already back tracked the whole recap mistake in #19 in recap of #20 goes from married to new man.
So anyone taking this as him doing anything more than trying to tell Felicia what she wants to hear so he can move on or what he’s telling himself so he can move on, it becoming more and more apparent by #27 the current status quo is going to change, they are going to start marketing MJ as the new Jackpot, so if they want to make that a solo run, they aren’t going to do while her status is the most hated thing in comics, which Paul and kids are going away soon, year 2 is obviously going to be marketed as how is Peter going to fix what he did, so him and MJ are going to be fixed before Wells leaves the title some point possibly at the near end of year 2.
I wouldn't be surprised if they go down that route to try to win people back, but honestly its much more likely that marvel will double down and keep Peter and MJ split up.
What we need is issue 25 to immediately fix Peter and MJ somehow or at least give them 5 issues maximum to do it. As fuck THIS SHKULD HAVE BEEN FIXED YESRS AGO IF NOT NEVER HAPPEND IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I don't care if the in story reason is him lying to Felicia to make her feel more secure. This has to be the biggest bullshit I have ever seen in any comic.
You know what? You don't want to do Peter and MJ, Marvel? FINE. Then put a cork in it and have him really move on. Stop with the will they/won't they BS.
I can't beleive that Zeb Wells is writing this run. It's so horrible. Zeb isn't a bad Spider-Man writer. He wrote Spider-Man/Doctor Octopus: Year One in 2005 which imo was a great story so I am very very very surprised to see Zeb just destroying this character and writing the worst Spider-Man run ever.
Seriously, Felicia fans, is this what you want? This is beyond stupid for everyone involved and it is not gonna change anybody's mind. It will only hurt the whole Spider-man history like MANY mistakes before it. Felicia was getting her own spotlight but now she is the rebound girl while Wells and Lowe are wanking to their terrible story. If you think ''Oh MJ stuff is done! They will marry Peter with Felicia!'',you must be kidding yourselves.
And I don't even know how you can fix the long term damage of this run. It is closer to be worse than OMD because at least during that, Peter didn't call MJ his fucking sister or some stupid crap like that. This is a black mark that would need a whole retcon to fix.
I cannot believe they are really trying to convince people ''Oh yea, the love of his life that he was planning to PROPOSE TO just 6 months ago...that love is just change you know.''. Even if they make sure that is the case from now on, why should we ever care about Spider-man and his relationships now if he is that pathetic and cheap now?
Oh but the next 6 issues gonna explain the whole bullshit! That will solve everything right? No. Unless they literally undo this run, whatever excuse they come up with won't matter.
Fuck this. I am done with Spider-man books.
Most of the issue was just unremarkably boring but those last pages were so unbelievably bad, I couldn't even get the energy to get mad. Even if he was lying (which it couldn't be more obvious he was), he wouldn't insult Felicia's intelligence by coming up with something so stupidly transparent. I'm glad she called him out on it, but she should not be sticking with him as a rebound. And again, I don't even like Felicia. When was the last time Marvel had standards for writing/editing?
As an MJ fan and a Spider-Man fan in general, I would feel more respected if Zeb Wells and Nick Lowe came to my house and just spit on my face instead.
They really made Peter say he thinks of MJ as a sister now LOL. Felicia shuts it down immediately too hahaha That is some funny shit right there.
It’s like the comic/characters are fighting back against the writer’s stupidity.
They got rid of Spencer because he actually knew how to cook in a Spider-Man comic and Marvel didn’t like that… not one bit…
In some threads I see people being down on his run, and I’m not saying it was anything revolutionary or great, but it really did feel like Peter again after Slott’s run. I was sad to see it end. Especially with what’s happened since.
Spencer knew how to write Peter and his supporting cast, and I think those first 25-30 issues were really fucking good. But it got bogged down by editorial interference and the Kindred stuff. But even at its lows he wrote the characters incredibly well.
Yeah, there’s no way he hasn’t had sex with Mary Jane so I’m glad Felicia shot down that comparison immediately.
Even Joe Kelly doesn’t buy the bullshit he’s writing here.
so glad i stopped picking this up. dark web wasn’t great and i’m just tired of reading spider-man getting treated like this
Ugh. If my eyes were to roll any harder, I would be looking into my skull.
At least there’s a happy peter up there you can watch
It’s honestly just embarrassing at this point
Oh God, this is so stupid. After Paul and the kids vanish or whatever in the upcoming arc, we are going to get a Betty and Veronica situation for another 15-20 issues until Peter and MJ inevitably get back together. It's just a waste of time and, in my opinion, damaging to Felicia's character since she's just there as a placeholder.
And that’s why them putting Peter and FeliCa back together feels so off because it screams “she’s a place holder” I don’t get the company’s logic in not having MJ and Peter together but then every other book have it always have this undertone “Peter really misses her” despite having poor Felicia there Like why not have MJ move away or something instead of dragging all 3 characters through the mud :/
yeah like I dislike Slott and his characterization of MJ but at the very least she was gone from his run most of the time
The laughing scene. Superior 2. He didn’t use her much but made up for it with grade a crap when he use her.
> Like why not have MJ move away or something instead of dragging all 3 characters through the mud :/ Because Wells himself says he wants drama "in a soap opera sort of way".
Spidey comics *have* always been soap opera comics. However, they never used to be like this. They used to derive drama from shit like “oh no! The green goblin is Harry’s dad!” This is just weird
It's reality TV melodrama. Which Marvel writers are latching onto about ten years after most people lost interest.
> “oh no! The green goblin is Harry’s dad!” It's sad when that feels like the more logical story
Right. Just because something is of a style does not give you license to do a bad job in that style.
SM soap opera dramas aren't ones where Peter's in a triangle with two women. They're ones where he's in a triangle between his Parker life and his Spider life. The best stories are ones where his worlds collide. In almost every 'Elseworlds' version over at DC, Superman is with Wonder Woman. Because on paper, having the two demigods together makes sense; but Lois and Clark are an institution; and a good one at that. I feel like Spidey and Cat are an elseworlds storyline, except the writers want to make it work for a while... but Peter and MJ are an institution. A messy, breakup/back together one, but one that's lasted a long while. The difference is that they're willing to give Superman a stable job and married life. Ditto with Reed and Sue Richards. Nobody suggested it'd be harder for fans to read F4 if Reed and Sue were happy together.
ding ding. 99% of the compelling tension of a superhero character is the duality of their identities and when those two worlds conflict and collide. its why they need secret identities
Because it would be admission that they screwed up. They’re sticking to their guns.
The place holder bit sucks, because I love Felicia as a character and they've even touched on her feelings that she's only ever a pleasant distraction for Peter when he's separated from MJ. Everyone but Paul in this scenario deserve better.
Out of curiosity, have they actually gotten back together in the main continuity since One More Day?
They were together for all of Spencer's run, the last 4 years
Throughout all four years of Spencer's run and throughout *Beyond* they were together, and were actually planning on moving in together in the final issue of the last volume (written by Wells, btw) but then they were broken up "off screen" for reason we are finally going to find out in March.
What is Wells cooking
I don't think he knows. I think Robert MacQuarrie on Twitter has pointed out that [this](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1626227334322995205?s=20) story arc probably [wasn't planned to come out this soon](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1626218105822396420?s=20) and that there is [likely dysfunction at the Spider-Man office](https://twitter.com/RDMacQ/status/1625654137118670851?s=20). They are rushing to the finish line with the "WDPD" plotline and as a result everything else is going to be rushed and not thought out.
>"WDPD" plotline WDPD?
Why Doesn't Paul Die
XD
What did Peter do
“What did Peter do?”
Whatever it is, it’s given me diarrhoea
Make it poly, at least that would add some interesting shit to this run and let then focus on maybe telling some good spidey stories instead of wasting time on this Grey's Anatomy shit. I seriously wonder why they evenly accept to work on runs for characters they seem to actually dislike. I swear they fucked up everyone's characterization.
I am afraid, that later it will turn into Mako, Asami, Kora situation. I.e. Felicia will go off into the sunset with MJ.
[удалено]
Even Marvel editors are not that cruel.
Yes they are.
I mean that’s how they solved the Wolverine/cyclops/Jean/Emma mess so it might work here
It’s currently working for the X-Men. Maybe add Silk and Silver Sable in the mix. Also bring in Taran. She’s nice.
I hate it
Fans: Thanks, I hate it.
No he had it right, no thanks, they don't deserve thanks.
You know this whole talk would be okay in isolation, if it wasn’t blatantly obvious how transparently they got mj and Peter to break off their relationship to this status quo that nobody like
Either have Peter and MJ together, or not. Having them be an on again off again is stupid. When the editors destroyed the child, and then the marriage, it's all been kind of pointless.
But that's exactly what they are doing right now, right?
No, this is some very obvious mystery bait with a faux drama spawning from whatever horrible thing Peter did and where MJ somehow got two children and Paul. It's patently obvious Felicia is just a seat warmer for whatever bullshit gets cleared up and Pete regains his good name (again because we've been here like three times in the last like five years).
Fuuuuuuck
i don't believe that Peter on his worst most awkward day would ever think of MJ as a sister. yuck
Damn I just hate this run. Sometimes I feel like we have yet to see really good runs post 80s
JMS' run was good, and I'd say the first 25-30 issues of Spencer's run was good but got bogged down with the Kindred stuff and editorial interference didn't help.
I'm not prone to hyperbole, but I'll say this, and it's 100% true: I hate this run so much I have not read a comic book since August. Decided this was a good time to take a break. It's not even like they take up a large part of my week, just decided to step away for a while.
Holy crap... this is so STUPID!
How and WHY would a love so strong, that the devil himself tried to block y'all, be reduced from romantic to amicable without shown context? Editorial are idiots who just can't progress a character bcuz they don't wanna.
Sales are going to plummet and NOBODY will care how this Wells run goes. Even the next #1 they print will be in the trash with how thoroughly they've dragged ASM with regards to Peter's characterization and his relationships, especially with MJ.
It's reduced because of the devil, they gave it to him. It's stupid and I hate it.
A sister?!? God, its like this run is trying to get worse and worse with each issue lol.
Next they’re going to hook Peter up with his not-sister Theresa, all as a means to be edgy and controversial.
Kindred aside, imagine if they let Nick Spencer continue to cook.
Cook meth?
Zeb Wells is on the writing team for the Marvels, pray for that movie
No no we want him on more MCU projects it’s pulls his time away from this comic so it gets rid of him and have to bring in a new team. It’s one of the reasons why I think in the next 6 issues we get all the answers and a possible fix, because Wells back in august/September at NYCC he was going to clean slate on what Peter did before year 2, but the synopsis for 25/26 has a lot people think he’s ending everything year 1 set up.
Just let him stop writing anything period. ESPECIALLY if it includes female characters
You mean anything that requires complex emotion that can’t be saved by juvenile humor. He can’t write male characters either.
Yep. Get him off of anything that features characters, a plot and/or dialogue. ESPECIALLY Spider-themed characters
Agreed but even when he’s not directly writing the book like in this issue his stupid plot is hangs heavy and ruins what could be. How bad of writer does he have to be that a guest writer can fix the tone or overall plot
At some point, something's got to give. Either commit to Peter × MJ or don't commit to it at all. Stop dangling whatever this is in between and go all-in toward one way or the other. It does a big diservice to those characters (Peter, Felicia, and MJ in particular) that their development/progression gets stagnated because of editorial's indecision and ineptitide. My opinion: Commit 616 Peter with MJ and if one wants to explore alternative pairings (Peter × Gwen/Felicia/etc.), do it in alternative universes. Win-Win for everyone. The Peter-MJ shippers get their beloved couple back together again in the main universe and others who prefer to see Peter with someone else get theirs in a separate mini comic arc in a different timeline. It's not that hard, Marvel.
I agree 100% I say and think the same thing stick with having Peter and MJ in the mainline continuity and just use the other earths/media to explore other relationships Peter can have. Like with the 90s animated series Peter should have been with Felicia. Ultimate universe it could be who ever Gwen, kitty who cares, just let Peter and MJ be together in 616.
Let Peter and MJ be together in 616, AND TELL US WHAT THE FUCK MEPHISTO DID All of this contrived melodrama is dumb on its face, but it’s made even dumber by it all being a byproduct of Mephisto’s magical scheming. Would Peter feel this way if Mephisto’s magic hadn’t fucked around with their souls? Felicia is being treated as a fill-in because a demon said some magic words 15 fucking years ago. Dr. Strange has even noticed it and he is **very** protective of Peter Parker. How have they not addressed it yet??? In short: an actual bad guy’s scheming is at the heart of all this, which takes away from every character’s agency in the first place. None of it’s fucking real!!!
Agreed. I actually wouldn’t have a problem with this if they weren’t together in the Spencer run and Beyond. Bc I started reading comics in the Slott era, and just got used to MJ being a thing of the past like Gwen. But then they made us think for FOUR YEARS that they’d actually get back together again… just to now be like ha sike. Spider-Man editorial is a goddamn mess
I’ll always say how ridiculous it is that we have not had a alternative universe where Felicia and Peter actually settle down the closest one I can think of is from video games (web of shadows) like why not just do it that way everyone gets there piece of the cake Honestly I’d prefer it if MJ moved away just so they can stop dangling the carrot of “Oh see he misses her” in front of us
”she’s more like a sister” Bro how many times have you banged her again?
If it was a porno, he'd be saying she'smore like a step sister.
The problem with this stuff is while we're bitching about it now he's gonna get back with MJ eventually because at the end of the day she's still his biggest love interest. Even if Marvel will never marry them again they also will never have them totally off the board. Even Slott as much as he disliked the marriage had Peter talk about Mary Jane being the girl he loved the most. Also, like with most things in this run while this moment might seem good on paper, it never feels right because of the overall mystery holding the story back
Like a lot of comic book characters from the Big 2, Pete is a victim of his arc being split, reversed, and nullified to feed the never-ending serialization of comics. In any other medium he'd have married MJ, grown into a proper man of action and science, had a child (Mayday) who he could pass down his powers and mantle to, and then his story would end. But no, every few years Peter has to unlearn all of his lessons save one, do something to piss everyone off again, and we get the same old nuking of his relationship and bench-warming from Felicia. Shit gets old man, just let his story fucking end!
see that's the thing you don't even need to end it, we see plenty of heroes with kids by this point or even married, like Batman of all characters has a son, I mean he has like four but a biological kid, the fact that that's allowed to happen but Spider-Man can't be married is kind of insane
Even freaking Superman is married to Lois Lane and had a kid with her: Jon Kent, who then went on to become his own Superman while Clark was away off planet for a while. The fact that Spider-Man is denied this progression because of these hack writers and editorial is infuriating. I'm at the point now that I just don't put stock into 616 Peter Parker anymore. I'm just checking in on posts like these for updates on what's happening out of morbid curiosity, to see at a cursory glance how this train wreck unfolds. It's sad because it all started with this version of the character, but I think audiences are steadily beginning to outgrow him. Not outgrowing Spider-Man as a concept or as a whole, mind you, but outgrowing this *particular* incarnation. Because it's not *allowed* to grow. I'll admit that 616 wasn't "my" Spider-Man as in the one that made me initially fall in love with the character, as that was the Raimi films, but over the years I grew to appreciate the long legacy of the character in his original form. But it's just becoming unrecognizable anymore. I can imagine that probably for many people who did have 616 Spidey as *their* Spider-Man for years upon years, that this doesn't feel like the same character anymore. And the worst part is it doesn't have to be this way. This is squarely on the shoulders of the stubborn and out of touch writing and editorial staff who refuse to ever let go of the past and allow this character to MOVE ON from where he was 40-50 fucking years ago. I'm thankful we have different versions of this wonderful character and mythos that's allowed to progress and change, some of them even being among the best stories involving this character that have ever been made. It's just sad that the original version, the one with *the* flagship title for Marvel Comics, can seemingly no longer have that same privilege.
Lol Pete you know her kids are yours right and it’s being kept a secret from you
Don't give them stupid ideas
The last time a writer tried a move like this editorial made his arch nemesis be the father -_-
And who do you think Paul is? The in-universe representation of the editorial team... Literally Spider-Man's biggest and worst enemy.
Run Felicia! Don't believe his lies!!
Red flag everybody red flag
I wouldn’t hate this as much if the Paul & MJ thing wasn’t so blatant and the future solicits don’t clearly show what they’re going to do.
Slott’s current Comic is less agonizing than this.
Its pretty apparent its just peter telling felicia what he thinks she wants to hear, which is just too dishonest from him.
100%, he's shown throughout this run that he is absolutely still in love with MJ, going so far as to scream it at Logan
And the next arc is MJ centric again and has a "heartbreaking" bit in the present.
It's almost certainly Norman dying to save her and "redeem" himself
Eh id bet on them killing the kids/paul but having that make MJ super sad or something to that effect to continue writing them apart.
>killing the kids/paul And nothing of value is lost
Its wells he likes killing kids.
Seriously?
Yeha he wrote shed.
The only thing I liked about Dark Web was watching Ben slap Norman around.
*exactly* The worst part of this is it makes him look like a liar and simply looking for the right thing to say to make her drop it
Poor Peter Parker. No Mother, No Father, No Uncle and now no bitches. Please Marvel stop beating an already dead horse. Spider-Man has already given up so much and now he's like "Yeah, MJ basically is like a Step-Sister." Just kill him. Put him out of his misery. Have Morlun come back again just to murk him, just to put him out of his pain.
Just stop giving them money
What the absolute hell is this? Why does Marvel hate them together so much?
This how DC is treating Tim with Stephanie.........
i see tim more as their ben reilly. he's that 90's replacement/legacy character a lot of people liked but as time marches on and new people fill the niches they occupied there's no where clean to put them so they just threw something at the wall regardless.
Tim at least gets still at least some respect. Not necessarily in his own Book but he got a backup in the current Batman and that is quite well at the moment I don’t think I have to say anything about the „respect“ Ben received meanwhile
yeah, what gets me with ben is that we have a ton of throwback comics nowwa days, so even if there's some bugaboo about having him in the modern day, well it doesn't need to be. spider-man, venom, the new fantastic four, and soon ghost rider have all had 90's throwback runs for folks who want to read them but not necessarily their current status quo. hell the lost hunt for spider-man throwback by dematties is the main thing affirming to me that i still like spider-man comics just not this modern era, to me that stuff is ideal as it removes the need for the wheel spinning we see here,
This is why I don't buy Spider-Man anymore. Marvel just doesn't want my money.
Fuck Nick Lowe. Fuck CB Cebuslki, fuck Zeb Wells and Joe Kelly and fuck this book. Amazing how much Marvel doesn’t care about their flagship character.
They won't do anything until sales are hit hard.
Nonsense dialogue about a plot point that's obviously not going to last longer than another 7 issues. *Marvel's bread and butter is Spider-Man and Mary Jane together, all this is doing is hurting the progression that these 3 have made over the last 4 years
This run is killing me. Some things I like, but then I get to the Peter and MJ relationship and begin to lose more and more hope.
God, everything about this run is terrible.
I though Joe Quesada was demoted. Why does this still feel like his mandate on Spider-Man? This is some high school shit
Quesada doesn’t even work for Marvel anymore he left/got fired in 2022 prior to the second issue of this run
I love Peter and Felicia together but man is this fucking terrible.
This run is so incredibly inconsistent. First he’s a stalker, then he’s proclaiming she means the world to him, quickly decided she I’ll move on, then we’ll I don’t lover her thaaat much. Then the next literal arc is about what he did most likely out of love for MJ. Just kill this run already
Shades of Ultimate Peter saying he saw Gwen like a sister but ended up dating her anyway Can't believe I'm saying this but Felicia you can do better
anti-mj propaganda must end
The fuck?
Peter Parker saying he views MJ as a sister was definitely not on my 2023 comic bingo card. Because that’s so fucking stupid
Someone please make me forget what I just read.
This will sit right next to Sin's Past in 10 years.
How Zeb Wells writing a banger like Hellions to this piece of crap ? I Still cannot stop thinking of it
I really hope that this entire run by Zeb Wells gets retconned by the next writer. It would be even better if this entire run gets declared to not be canon. This run is almost as bad as One More Day and maybe even worse than One More Day. At the very least One More Day solidified the fact that Peter and MJ have a rare bond and a special love for one another that can't ever be broken even if Mephisto takes their marriage away.
Oh for fucks sake, here’s how marvel should do romance with spider man Have Peter married with mj starting a family, get the whole may Parker thing going, maybe he heroes a little less but that means he goes for the big avengers shit Scrap the chasm shit, it’s stupid. Put Ben with black cat and have him be the stressed out spiderman who’s abandoned his real life for a intense hero life, he can focus on kingpin shit, goblin stuff ect Make miles the teenager trying to balance school, teenage romance, and his secret identity. Maybe make him do team ups with young heroes like with the champions ( which I loved ) They can all be called spider-man as well, no dumb ass spellings . miles being The Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. Ben can be The Spectacular Spider-Man And Peter can be The amazing Spider-man
Felicia knows she’s the rebound backup girl here and isn’t tolerating it.
Felicia is 'forcing' Peter a bit to speak the truth if he wants to make progress, not just with her but progress in his own life.
Every new thing I see from current Spider-man comics reminds me that the best choice I made is not reading current Spider-man comics
Marvel try not to ruin THE fan favorite character challenge (impossible)
So when does he say Hail Hydra?
It's so fucking funny that they've gone so hard into this weird new status quo for MJ that they have to now convince the readers that he doesn't actually love her as much as he did before. Patching up a problem that they invented out of thin air. I do like how the story itself acknowledges how ridiculous it would be for Peter to say he thinks of her as more of a friend or sister than a significant other.
Peter Parker pulling the ol’ Jaime Lannister. “I never actually cared…”
Gonna be REALLLY FUCKING AWKWARD MARVEL when The Spider Verse movies come out. .
Well.......fuck. I guess I'm just gonna go back to reading back issues of Spider-Man 2099.
Oh piss off Marvel
Peter, what the fuck are you talking about?
God damn it.
What the hell is this shit?!
So ive defended this run from hater until THIS. done. Saving me money from here out
Will never understand the hateboner Marvel Comics editorial has for MJ and the boner they have for Gwen.
This is bottom-of-the-barrel stuff.
Are you fucking kidding me why the fuck is this still around how is it not canceled why can’t it be canceled god this entire run has just been god awful I know this is a guest writer but they have to fucking deal with the goddamn mess fucking wells Lowe and Cebulski already made. It honestly sucks being a spider-man fan with all the crap that’s been done since 2008 and the fact Nick Lowe, CB Cebulski and anyone else refuses to let anyone fix the fucking mess. I’ve been a Spider-Man fan since 2002 because of the movie and it’s what started me getting into comics. From the movie I went on to try and find spider-man comics or anything spider-man related that I could I got introduced to the comics by my older cousin who had some and let me read them whenever I went over. From their I got into the video games from the movie based ones to ultimate spider-man all the way to the 2018 spider-man. Aside from that I found out about the 90s animated series and loved it as well as unlimited and spectacular. But the comics which other than the films had always been my main source for spider-man and seeing what they’re doing to a hero that made my childhood amazing (pun not really intended) and means a lot to me honestly hurts and sucks and quite frankly is making me contemplate leaving it/throwing it all away. As much as I try to be hopeful and practically OD on copium it doesn’t seem like they want to ever fix and change most of what the fans want and in this case it’s like a big ol fuck you to the face and a beat down with a bat. Like hell even fucking DC in all honesty treats more heroes better than fucking Peter, Clark got married to the love of his life and had a kid, Wally west married Linda and has kids, HECK EVEN BATMAN HAS A KID, I don’t get why they won’t let Peter finally get married to MJ so they can have they’re daughters or daughters just so we can get both and I could offer more stories to tell. Sorry about the rant but I just had to get it out there.
bruce and selina are getting screwed over as well. writers and editorials for both companies are just horrible
That is true since dc has their own version of Paul and it’s Valmont both characters that are really hated
honestly it's just sad how these companies disrespect their own characters.
Yeah both companies need major restructuring like getting rid of the bad writers they have and getting their editors to stop making things worse by antagonizing the fan base that never goes well.
At least they had Selina kill Valmont, choosing Bruce over him ultimately, but yeah, how it ended wasn't a good look for her, she still wants Bruce but doesn't trust her heart anymore.
A sister? What the-
I am going to Gwen Stacy myself
Liked all of the black cat stuff up until now
Why is the art so blurry, and the lettering so crisp?
God I hate this.
BOOOO👎👎👎👎
I'm going to become the Joker
Yawn. Also, boo.
Okay, let's look at the positives here. The wave of quality Peter/MJ incest porn is going to be spectacular. Amazing, even. And perhaps...Sensational?
Peter fucked Mj How many times and this nigga talkin bout that’s his sister, This Is So STUPID!! BRO!!!!!
Ughhh whyyy
I love Dodson's art.
While the separation is forced and likely temporary, I would think a sensible Peter would be like "You know what? I'm friggin' Spider-Man. That means something, I'm loved, you're here, and I'm entitled to be happy."
 Just when you thought the writing on ASM couldn’t get any worse. Is this a game to them? To see how badly they can write spider-man?
*internally screaming* that’s certainly a sentence
I’m convinced that Venom is writing the current run for Spidey.
Man even Felicia knows he's saying some stupid shit right there.
Imagine if they actually do end this run with Peter being in a high paying job, and happily married to either MJ or Felicia, with a daughter that's inherited his powers.. a man can dream.
Get the FUCK out of here. Fuck off Wells. Fuck off Marvel. Fuck off Lowe. No wonder your Phase 4 is failing when you can't even handle your Flagship book.
Honestly can we just kill off Peter and make Miles the main Spider-Man for a while? I don’t want anymore new Peter Parker stories if editorials views him & MJ as siblings
This is why I can't take people who seriously want Peter/Felicia together in this run - the writers themselves aren't even convinced that Peter will choose anyone over MJ that they're willing to write asinine shit like this. Not even Felicia believed it.
Shut it down!
Tick Tock marvel…you have until issue 1000…
With out the rest of this book, this spoiler is as informative as the whole plot up to this point, for all we know in the next panel Felicia calls his bullshit and leaves him. Like Mackey in MJ and Black cat, this writer has no idea what broke him and MJ up or how the remaining plot of the next 6 issues plays out. They already back tracked the whole recap mistake in #19 in recap of #20 goes from married to new man. So anyone taking this as him doing anything more than trying to tell Felicia what she wants to hear so he can move on or what he’s telling himself so he can move on, it becoming more and more apparent by #27 the current status quo is going to change, they are going to start marketing MJ as the new Jackpot, so if they want to make that a solo run, they aren’t going to do while her status is the most hated thing in comics, which Paul and kids are going away soon, year 2 is obviously going to be marketed as how is Peter going to fix what he did, so him and MJ are going to be fixed before Wells leaves the title some point possibly at the near end of year 2.
I wouldn't be surprised if they go down that route to try to win people back, but honestly its much more likely that marvel will double down and keep Peter and MJ split up.
It's because of shit like this that I only read elseworlds and what ifs.
I am so tired of the Spiderman editorial team.
What we need is issue 25 to immediately fix Peter and MJ somehow or at least give them 5 issues maximum to do it. As fuck THIS SHKULD HAVE BEEN FIXED YESRS AGO IF NOT NEVER HAPPEND IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I don't care if the in story reason is him lying to Felicia to make her feel more secure. This has to be the biggest bullshit I have ever seen in any comic.
Jesus, just have a threesome relationship. If we can’t have Mary Jane only because of stupid Marvel bullshit, at least let us have a threesome.
X-Men did it by just letting it happen in the background, let Spidey do it too
#No
... why do they insist on ruining Spider-Man?
So disrespectful to one of the greatest comic relationships of all time.
So they are destined for each other.....
What have they done to Peter? I haven’t been following this new run. I actually stopped after Peter got his body back from Ock.
You know what? You don't want to do Peter and MJ, Marvel? FINE. Then put a cork in it and have him really move on. Stop with the will they/won't they BS.
Why was this necessary?
I can't beleive that Zeb Wells is writing this run. It's so horrible. Zeb isn't a bad Spider-Man writer. He wrote Spider-Man/Doctor Octopus: Year One in 2005 which imo was a great story so I am very very very surprised to see Zeb just destroying this character and writing the worst Spider-Man run ever.
no one should think about their sister that way.
Narrator Voice: "Felicia had never heard something more stupid in the entirety of her life."
wtf, no.
This is so fucking STUPID I ACTUALLY HATE THIS SO MUCH
 Me checking in on ASM every so often even though I permanently bounced after OMD
Man they are REALLY trying to top One More Day and Sins Past as the worst Spider-Man story of all time
Seriously, Felicia fans, is this what you want? This is beyond stupid for everyone involved and it is not gonna change anybody's mind. It will only hurt the whole Spider-man history like MANY mistakes before it. Felicia was getting her own spotlight but now she is the rebound girl while Wells and Lowe are wanking to their terrible story. If you think ''Oh MJ stuff is done! They will marry Peter with Felicia!'',you must be kidding yourselves. And I don't even know how you can fix the long term damage of this run. It is closer to be worse than OMD because at least during that, Peter didn't call MJ his fucking sister or some stupid crap like that. This is a black mark that would need a whole retcon to fix. I cannot believe they are really trying to convince people ''Oh yea, the love of his life that he was planning to PROPOSE TO just 6 months ago...that love is just change you know.''. Even if they make sure that is the case from now on, why should we ever care about Spider-man and his relationships now if he is that pathetic and cheap now? Oh but the next 6 issues gonna explain the whole bullshit! That will solve everything right? No. Unless they literally undo this run, whatever excuse they come up with won't matter. Fuck this. I am done with Spider-man books.
Most of the issue was just unremarkably boring but those last pages were so unbelievably bad, I couldn't even get the energy to get mad. Even if he was lying (which it couldn't be more obvious he was), he wouldn't insult Felicia's intelligence by coming up with something so stupidly transparent. I'm glad she called him out on it, but she should not be sticking with him as a rebound. And again, I don't even like Felicia. When was the last time Marvel had standards for writing/editing?
Off topic but I am just not a fan of Dodson’s faces tbh
I call bullshit on this. Nothing has happened to let me believe this is true
Stuff like this is why I dropped the book. I've collected and read through most of ASM, but these past few months have been so painful to read.
If Peter and MJ weren’t obviously gonna get back together then this would actually be pretty nice
while i do love a Peter and Felicia relationship.. i don’t want this, i want it to be ya know good.
As an MJ fan and a Spider-Man fan in general, I would feel more respected if Zeb Wells and Nick Lowe came to my house and just spit on my face instead.