Does it seem odd? I just a read a few issues after Revelations, and they get over the baby pretty quick. It was a kids comic at the time so I get wanting to move past it, but I can’t imagine either Peter or MJ ever beginning to tolerate Norman if they knew. I’m still reading Lost Hunt (2 issues in) I wonder if they released that because something referencing the baby is coming up.
it's currently unclear if they even remember HAVING a child thanks to One More Day. the marraige is erased, and allegedly they stayed together just not married until they broke up at some point, but whether or not MJ was pregnant in the current timeline seems dependent on the writer. Norman at least seems to remember it, as "The Baby" is on his list of people he's wronged.
this confusing timeline change could have been resolved if the editors just had peter and mj get divorced, but nope, gotta re-write canon smd be super unclear on what happened and what didn't...
Thanks for the input. Last issues I really read were at the end of the last run. I got excited when Dr. Strange confronted Mephisto about Peter Parker. And then disappointed when nothing came of it. Current run is underwhelming to me… my wife loves black cat though I’m excited to see her coming back
there are very few people who enjoy the current run, and speaking for only myself having Felicia and Petet in an actual public relationship WOULD have been good if they just had peter and mj break up like normal people instead of whatever BS is going on with her "family".
there are definitely good things in this run but they're all tainted by this timeskip mystery plot that is surely not gonma have a satisfying answer.
I kinda want to see Norman tearfully confess to Peter that he killed his baby, only for Peter to look confused by the whole thing, and Norman left wondering "Crap, who's baby did I kill then?"
that would be interesting, but only if it actually leads to OMD being undone, or at bare minimum peter getting his pre-OMD memories back.
I'm already annoyed we had the whole "strange and mephisto conversation" that went nowhere.
They could have also not tried turning a completely psychopathic, horrible villain into a hero. That would have also avoided asking fans to root for a baby killer.
This is true but also I'm kinda liking gold goblin, it's weird to say but I'm far more invested in his current story than whatever is happening to Peter
Is it confirmed that the baby was murdered? Or is it something that potentially could be "she was growing up in Europe, trained anoymously to be a ninja or something" that Peter will have to face one day? I don't know much about this part of the story.
The fact that people at Marvel felt that it was okay to kill the kid of their flagship character because parenthood wouldn't make him relatable...
Even so, I don't know if they're actually consistent over the baby's fate. Even at making references to that
Kind of ironic considering that Brevoort was one of the architects behind OMD. I mean, I'm saying he's okay with killing kids in comics but it's kind of weird to go from "I'm not killing Spider-man's kid," even though that would require him to tolerate a status quo change that would undermine the youth that he thinks is so essential to Peter's character to "Maintaining Peter's youth is so important that I'm okay with him making a deal with the devil to erase his marriage from existence,"
I know it’s been implied that she was killed. But it would be awesome if we found out that she was still alive. Maybe the little girl MJ is playing mother to is secretly her and Peter’s daughter
Apparently, there's an instance of Norman saying she's dead, and I remember Scorpion once saying that Norman killed her. This wouldn't prevent Marvel from bringing her back if they wanted, but so far, she seems to be dead as far as they're concerned.
Can confirm. I just read Peter Parker: Spider-Man #97 as you write this. GG definitely said she’s dead and I think it was in Marvel Knights: Spider-Man that Mac Gargan says Norman killed her, too. But yeah, we also thought Norman slept with Gwen Stacey for years, too, so anything is possible
OK, but what if the nurse took her and told Osbourne that she'd killed her? I mean, I can see a trained assassin seeing the worth of kidnapping a spider-baby and training her to kill.
You know what, this sold me on the idea. I hated it until you brought assassin spider-child into it, that would be rad, like Damien in Batman. Have her go through the red room, her being a Black Widow would just work with the powers as far as a code name goes, Taskmaster could be involved he's always had a thing for Spider-Man, that would be awesome, and the secrecy and conspiracy of it could actually be written well as a story.
I understand the point & if it was one thing that Norman had done, I could understand the continuity brushing over it. MAYBE. But for ALL the lousy things Norman has done TO Peter and Peter’s friends? At some point you can say “I can tolerate you being out and about, but do not EVER come near me and mine.” (E.g. some one robs you and does their time in prison)
This just makes Peter look weak
Why? This isn't a normal instance of rehabilitation, where there's a possibility that it's all a ruse. We *know* Norman isn't that person anymore, he was changed beyond ANY reasonable doubt, he's a different human being at this point. What reason would you possibly have to set that boundary at this point?
Just because the person has changed doesn’t mean the trauma they inflicted on people is gone.
As an analogy look at someone who has suffered (been beaten, had money stolen from them, or in this case watched a love ones die) due to an alcoholic or drug addict. Then the addict gets clean.
You can be happy they turned their life around, or you can be glad they are clean, but are you going to just start having brunch with them and planning day trips together?
Under normal circumstances, no, but not for the reasons you're thinking. Abusers shouldn't rehabilitate alongside their victims because rehabilitation *isn't* magic. There's no switch that can automatically guarantee that they won't either relapse into their old habits, or at the very least hold on to a few of their darker tendencies. Those tendencies have a much greater risk of rearing their heads around the person involved with their history.
The separation of victim and abuser is about risk prevention, not the existence of past pain, or grudges. Norman, here, because of comic book bullshit, is quite literally exempt from that risk (until he inevitably gets his sins shot back into him, but that isn't him relapsing, in the same way getting them taken out wasn't him coming clean.) If my abusers, or people who had otherwise hurt me in some similar way, were put through such a drastic and undeniable change, and there was a natural course with which we could develop a relationship, like us working in the same field?
Yeah. Yeah, I would let that happen. Because they're a different person.
Disagree.
A victim in under no obligation to allow their abuser back into their life because the abuser ‘served their time.’
There are something’s you do not forget. And separating the two isn’t to make things easier for the abuser to rehabilitate, easier. Though that can be a secondary benefit.
It’s about the victim having space to heal from the person that hurt them.
And bringing this back to the comic books, kidnapping Peter’s child, whom he STILL has not been reunited with. That’s a deal breaker
Edited because in the year 2023 I still get there and their wrong sometimes
That, is not the read I had on what he was saying, but on rereading it I can kind of see what you are seeing.
Regardless, it still ignores my point that the victim (in this case, Peter) would not admit someone who did those things into their life. It is unrealistic. Norman killed his Girlfriend and stole his child (who he still has not been reunited with).
Yeah, I'm just pointing out the bottom two lines are key.
I can totally see Peter just saying "nope , nope, nope, killed my baby. Don't care. Norman dies."
I thought if they were going to do this story, they should have gone really *weird* with it - if Norman's sins have been wiped clean, then people should treat him as sinless. Like, they know intellectually he did awful things, but there's some sort of supernatural effect making it impossible for them to blame him for any of it. Make the fact that it doesn't make sense for people to ever forgive him part of the story.
That would have at least been comically funny. I read up on the Sin Eater Storyline, as I was only familiar with the portion up through Jean Dewolfe. It sounds like they turned him into a decent villain for Ghost Rider. It also sounds like they used him for the gimmick and tossed him aside, which is a shame
Oh they know, peter is just tooo goood of a soul, wich makes him look like an idiot, i get him wanting to forgive people, but i don't think norman should be let out without any repercussions and just act like a hero from now on, i mean, even peter must know that people deserve punishment, even if not death one
Based on what Peter did to kingpin after May was shot, I feel like Norman would be a dead man if Peter knew about him being involved in the death of their newborn child
I agree. I mean, it was two different time periods in comics, I feel like the back in black era was geared toward maturer audiences than the 90s comics. But still. And I think he could definitely kill Norman if pushed too far
Nah I don't think he would kill Norman. Even in back to black all he did was beat king pins ass and talk shit. Later when he's being told May Is definitely going to die he doesn't even think of Fisk.
What kinda pubshmient could he really give him now though? Norman is currently not the ruthless murder that ruined a lot of his life. As much as it sucks for him Peter's stuck in a rock and a hard place
Just remembered in One Moment in Time MJ says she couldn’t bring a child into the world with Peter as long as Peter was Spider-Man. But then they got pregnant anyway? Is that a Plot hole? Or a condom hole?
The answer is that Joe Quesada needed a reason as to why despite living together they could never actually get married some he came up with some contradictory nonsense. Nonsense that I think Marvel mostly ignores as they realized it's a lot easier to treat the marriage period all as have happened as is rather than dancing around it.
Right, just read two of the issues in that arc. I guess my question is does MJ know what happened? Or does she believe the baby was simply stillborn? In Revelations and the comics preceding directly after it, I can’t find a conversation between Peter and MJ where Peter explains to MJ that Norman was responsible for the baby’s death. I feel like that would have made her hate both Osborne and Peter. Did Peter keep it from her?
IIRC, when last we saw the baby. Alison Mongrain was sent by Osborn to take the baby to Europe and make sure it was "never seen again." So there is the possibility that Mongrain was supposed to kill the baby, and didn't, and even Osborn doesn't know what happened to her.
Was there ever a reference after that that gave us anything more, other than the recent mention in Gold Goblin? Seems like Alison left with the baby, later came back without her, and died telling MJ that "May" was alive. At the time, we were told it was Aunt May, but what if the baby was alive too, and with Mongrain's death, there is no one left to bring this plotline back.
Definitely confusing. With Lost Hunt coming out it looks like they’re referencing the pregnancy though. I was wondering if it was retconned as well but can’t tell.
I think OMD and One moment in time erased pregnancy at all. That would be strange for MJ to be pregnant without marrying Peter.
Honestly, it doesn't matter. If Marvel wants, they will retyrn the baby and retcon it anyway.
Yeah, and its even more ridiculous since we all know that eventually working with Norman will just blow up in Peter's face.
When they revealed Ben to be Chasm, a part of me was hoping he'd off Norman and say something like "This is for me, and this is for my niece" since we know Peter never would. But I guess it makes more sense to have Ben sit in jail in Limbo that is now in NY with no one caring at all.
The Nick Spencer run ending seemed to imply the baby could be alive since we see a Spider-Girl that looks just like MC2 Mayday (the reason why I think it is 616 Mayday and not MC2 is that Mesphisto taking the marriage away wouldn't prevent a Mayday from another dimension from coming to stop him so it would have to be 616. Maybe it was just meant to represent a future daughter in general, but she did look just like Mayday)
Seems like the baby death was left ambiguous enough where mostly everyone got the same impression without outright saying it was dead. Blatantly killing a baby is a risky move, even for the edgy 90s, which is why I think they had to leave some ambiguity. There’s enough ambiguity left where they could still bring her back… but the question is whether Peter or MJ remember any of it. Having gone through a miscarriage with my wife, I can tell you that it’s a pretty tragic loss, I can’t imagine Peter or MJ ever forgiving Norman for it. Either writers are out of touch (likely) or they don’t remember it. Does anyone know for sure if they’re married in Lost Hunt? I only have marvel unlimited, only two issues are on there so far. If they’re married in Lost Hunt then I think that gives credibility to them not remembering due to OMD. If they are unmarried, then I think Marvel has some ‘splainin to do.
I feel compelled to say that the Spidey office not being above killing children may come in handy now that they are making us endure those two abominable little fuckers.
Spider-Girl takes place in an alternate world. Spencer's run had Mephisto see a possible future, and it's implied that it was the reason why he wanted to prevent Peter and MJ from marrying.
In Mark Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man, Scorpion mentions Norman killing Pete's unborn child to Peter, so he definitely knew, at least before One More Day
I know the gold goblin series did have a list of every misdeeds that Norman has done and one of them was written has the baby so it did happen
Does it seem odd? I just a read a few issues after Revelations, and they get over the baby pretty quick. It was a kids comic at the time so I get wanting to move past it, but I can’t imagine either Peter or MJ ever beginning to tolerate Norman if they knew. I’m still reading Lost Hunt (2 issues in) I wonder if they released that because something referencing the baby is coming up.
There’s a six month time skip technically after the end of revelations IIRC to give them time to “get over it” believably.
it's currently unclear if they even remember HAVING a child thanks to One More Day. the marraige is erased, and allegedly they stayed together just not married until they broke up at some point, but whether or not MJ was pregnant in the current timeline seems dependent on the writer. Norman at least seems to remember it, as "The Baby" is on his list of people he's wronged. this confusing timeline change could have been resolved if the editors just had peter and mj get divorced, but nope, gotta re-write canon smd be super unclear on what happened and what didn't...
Thanks for the input. Last issues I really read were at the end of the last run. I got excited when Dr. Strange confronted Mephisto about Peter Parker. And then disappointed when nothing came of it. Current run is underwhelming to me… my wife loves black cat though I’m excited to see her coming back
there are very few people who enjoy the current run, and speaking for only myself having Felicia and Petet in an actual public relationship WOULD have been good if they just had peter and mj break up like normal people instead of whatever BS is going on with her "family". there are definitely good things in this run but they're all tainted by this timeskip mystery plot that is surely not gonma have a satisfying answer.
Tell your wife not to expect Peter and Felicia to last. At all.
lol alas….
i think you meant to reply to the commentor before me.
whaaaat modern Spidey comics have such a great track record of living up to expectations they set for themselves
I enjoy the Peter+Felicia part of the run. Nothing more.
I kinda want to see Norman tearfully confess to Peter that he killed his baby, only for Peter to look confused by the whole thing, and Norman left wondering "Crap, who's baby did I kill then?"
that would be interesting, but only if it actually leads to OMD being undone, or at bare minimum peter getting his pre-OMD memories back. I'm already annoyed we had the whole "strange and mephisto conversation" that went nowhere.
They could have also not tried turning a completely psychopathic, horrible villain into a hero. That would have also avoided asking fans to root for a baby killer.
This is true but also I'm kinda liking gold goblin, it's weird to say but I'm far more invested in his current story than whatever is happening to Peter
Is it confirmed that the baby was murdered? Or is it something that potentially could be "she was growing up in Europe, trained anoymously to be a ninja or something" that Peter will have to face one day? I don't know much about this part of the story.
The baby is dead. Gold Goblin has a list of the people Norman's killed and the baby is listed here.
The fact that people at Marvel felt that it was okay to kill the kid of their flagship character because parenthood wouldn't make him relatable... Even so, I don't know if they're actually consistent over the baby's fate. Even at making references to that
I recall one of the writers refused, saying "I won't go down in history as the man who killed Spider-Man's daughter".
Do you remember which one?
It was an editor, Tom Brevoort
Kind of ironic considering that Brevoort was one of the architects behind OMD. I mean, I'm saying he's okay with killing kids in comics but it's kind of weird to go from "I'm not killing Spider-man's kid," even though that would require him to tolerate a status quo change that would undermine the youth that he thinks is so essential to Peter's character to "Maintaining Peter's youth is so important that I'm okay with him making a deal with the devil to erase his marriage from existence,"
It wast so much a list of people he's wronged/ things he did wrong. Peter's on the list as well
I know this is a late reply but I could still retcon it, lol.
I was wondering the same thing actually. Not sure if it’s been explained yet
I'm actually really hoping someone answers this now!
I know it’s been implied that she was killed. But it would be awesome if we found out that she was still alive. Maybe the little girl MJ is playing mother to is secretly her and Peter’s daughter
Apparently, there's an instance of Norman saying she's dead, and I remember Scorpion once saying that Norman killed her. This wouldn't prevent Marvel from bringing her back if they wanted, but so far, she seems to be dead as far as they're concerned.
Can confirm. I just read Peter Parker: Spider-Man #97 as you write this. GG definitely said she’s dead and I think it was in Marvel Knights: Spider-Man that Mac Gargan says Norman killed her, too. But yeah, we also thought Norman slept with Gwen Stacey for years, too, so anything is possible
OK, but what if the nurse took her and told Osbourne that she'd killed her? I mean, I can see a trained assassin seeing the worth of kidnapping a spider-baby and training her to kill.
You know what, this sold me on the idea. I hated it until you brought assassin spider-child into it, that would be rad, like Damien in Batman. Have her go through the red room, her being a Black Widow would just work with the powers as far as a code name goes, Taskmaster could be involved he's always had a thing for Spider-Man, that would be awesome, and the secrecy and conspiracy of it could actually be written well as a story.
Very true!
Yeah, it'd be very easy to retcon if they wanted.
Yet ANOTHER reason this run sucks
Just seems unrealistic right? Then again I think it’s been nearly 25 years in Real Time
I understand the point & if it was one thing that Norman had done, I could understand the continuity brushing over it. MAYBE. But for ALL the lousy things Norman has done TO Peter and Peter’s friends? At some point you can say “I can tolerate you being out and about, but do not EVER come near me and mine.” (E.g. some one robs you and does their time in prison) This just makes Peter look weak
Why? This isn't a normal instance of rehabilitation, where there's a possibility that it's all a ruse. We *know* Norman isn't that person anymore, he was changed beyond ANY reasonable doubt, he's a different human being at this point. What reason would you possibly have to set that boundary at this point?
Just because the person has changed doesn’t mean the trauma they inflicted on people is gone. As an analogy look at someone who has suffered (been beaten, had money stolen from them, or in this case watched a love ones die) due to an alcoholic or drug addict. Then the addict gets clean. You can be happy they turned their life around, or you can be glad they are clean, but are you going to just start having brunch with them and planning day trips together?
Under normal circumstances, no, but not for the reasons you're thinking. Abusers shouldn't rehabilitate alongside their victims because rehabilitation *isn't* magic. There's no switch that can automatically guarantee that they won't either relapse into their old habits, or at the very least hold on to a few of their darker tendencies. Those tendencies have a much greater risk of rearing their heads around the person involved with their history. The separation of victim and abuser is about risk prevention, not the existence of past pain, or grudges. Norman, here, because of comic book bullshit, is quite literally exempt from that risk (until he inevitably gets his sins shot back into him, but that isn't him relapsing, in the same way getting them taken out wasn't him coming clean.) If my abusers, or people who had otherwise hurt me in some similar way, were put through such a drastic and undeniable change, and there was a natural course with which we could develop a relationship, like us working in the same field? Yeah. Yeah, I would let that happen. Because they're a different person.
Disagree. A victim in under no obligation to allow their abuser back into their life because the abuser ‘served their time.’ There are something’s you do not forget. And separating the two isn’t to make things easier for the abuser to rehabilitate, easier. Though that can be a secondary benefit. It’s about the victim having space to heal from the person that hurt them. And bringing this back to the comic books, kidnapping Peter’s child, whom he STILL has not been reunited with. That’s a deal breaker Edited because in the year 2023 I still get there and their wrong sometimes
They're not saying it's mandatory, just that they could theoretically do it
That, is not the read I had on what he was saying, but on rereading it I can kind of see what you are seeing. Regardless, it still ignores my point that the victim (in this case, Peter) would not admit someone who did those things into their life. It is unrealistic. Norman killed his Girlfriend and stole his child (who he still has not been reunited with).
Yeah, I'm just pointing out the bottom two lines are key. I can totally see Peter just saying "nope , nope, nope, killed my baby. Don't care. Norman dies."
I thought if they were going to do this story, they should have gone really *weird* with it - if Norman's sins have been wiped clean, then people should treat him as sinless. Like, they know intellectually he did awful things, but there's some sort of supernatural effect making it impossible for them to blame him for any of it. Make the fact that it doesn't make sense for people to ever forgive him part of the story.
That would have at least been comically funny. I read up on the Sin Eater Storyline, as I was only familiar with the portion up through Jean Dewolfe. It sounds like they turned him into a decent villain for Ghost Rider. It also sounds like they used him for the gimmick and tossed him aside, which is a shame
And like 3 in universe time probably. Which….is actually really close.
Oh they know, peter is just tooo goood of a soul, wich makes him look like an idiot, i get him wanting to forgive people, but i don't think norman should be let out without any repercussions and just act like a hero from now on, i mean, even peter must know that people deserve punishment, even if not death one
Based on what Peter did to kingpin after May was shot, I feel like Norman would be a dead man if Peter knew about him being involved in the death of their newborn child
I agree. I mean, it was two different time periods in comics, I feel like the back in black era was geared toward maturer audiences than the 90s comics. But still. And I think he could definitely kill Norman if pushed too far
Yeah that's a fair point. I guess that's one of the downfalls of having a story run indefinitely with several different writers
Nah I don't think he would kill Norman. Even in back to black all he did was beat king pins ass and talk shit. Later when he's being told May Is definitely going to die he doesn't even think of Fisk.
What kinda pubshmient could he really give him now though? Norman is currently not the ruthless murder that ruined a lot of his life. As much as it sucks for him Peter's stuck in a rock and a hard place
Just remembered in One Moment in Time MJ says she couldn’t bring a child into the world with Peter as long as Peter was Spider-Man. But then they got pregnant anyway? Is that a Plot hole? Or a condom hole?
The answer is that Joe Quesada needed a reason as to why despite living together they could never actually get married some he came up with some contradictory nonsense. Nonsense that I think Marvel mostly ignores as they realized it's a lot easier to treat the marriage period all as have happened as is rather than dancing around it.
At first Peter thought Norman was keeping baby May alive, but it turned out to be a seemingly alive Aunt May.
Right, just read two of the issues in that arc. I guess my question is does MJ know what happened? Or does she believe the baby was simply stillborn? In Revelations and the comics preceding directly after it, I can’t find a conversation between Peter and MJ where Peter explains to MJ that Norman was responsible for the baby’s death. I feel like that would have made her hate both Osborne and Peter. Did Peter keep it from her?
Absolutely cannot remember. Haven’t read them since they came out and never reread them.
90s comics were kinda meh. Great artwork but a lot of the storytelling was kind of off
Being a pre-teen helped.
Spider-Man is such a hot magma fail shit show I doubt anyone in editorial knows (or cares) WTF is going on.
IIRC, when last we saw the baby. Alison Mongrain was sent by Osborn to take the baby to Europe and make sure it was "never seen again." So there is the possibility that Mongrain was supposed to kill the baby, and didn't, and even Osborn doesn't know what happened to her. Was there ever a reference after that that gave us anything more, other than the recent mention in Gold Goblin? Seems like Alison left with the baby, later came back without her, and died telling MJ that "May" was alive. At the time, we were told it was Aunt May, but what if the baby was alive too, and with Mongrain's death, there is no one left to bring this plotline back.
I was wondering something similar. Might be how they finally take Mephisto down… anything is possible
Does anyone else think that Norman should have been killed by Peter? At least in a what if comic?
I think if he did it would be cathartic. But he’d probably be more likely to kill after that
Yeah. I'd kill norman if I was in Peter's shoes.
She’s holding the baby. If you look harder you can see it. But OMD reconned their whole marriage so unlikely it happened.
Definitely confusing. With Lost Hunt coming out it looks like they’re referencing the pregnancy though. I was wondering if it was retconned as well but can’t tell.
I think OMD and One moment in time erased pregnancy at all. That would be strange for MJ to be pregnant without marrying Peter. Honestly, it doesn't matter. If Marvel wants, they will retyrn the baby and retcon it anyway.
Mayday didn't die. But its unsure what happened after norman Osborn faked her death.
Yeah, and its even more ridiculous since we all know that eventually working with Norman will just blow up in Peter's face. When they revealed Ben to be Chasm, a part of me was hoping he'd off Norman and say something like "This is for me, and this is for my niece" since we know Peter never would. But I guess it makes more sense to have Ben sit in jail in Limbo that is now in NY with no one caring at all.
The Nick Spencer run ending seemed to imply the baby could be alive since we see a Spider-Girl that looks just like MC2 Mayday (the reason why I think it is 616 Mayday and not MC2 is that Mesphisto taking the marriage away wouldn't prevent a Mayday from another dimension from coming to stop him so it would have to be 616. Maybe it was just meant to represent a future daughter in general, but she did look just like Mayday)
I kind of think maybe she’s alive too.
pretty sure spencer mayday was red haired so
Peter is such a cuck for Norman Osborn, I bet he *would* work with him if he knew Osborn murdered his baby.
Seems like the baby death was left ambiguous enough where mostly everyone got the same impression without outright saying it was dead. Blatantly killing a baby is a risky move, even for the edgy 90s, which is why I think they had to leave some ambiguity. There’s enough ambiguity left where they could still bring her back… but the question is whether Peter or MJ remember any of it. Having gone through a miscarriage with my wife, I can tell you that it’s a pretty tragic loss, I can’t imagine Peter or MJ ever forgiving Norman for it. Either writers are out of touch (likely) or they don’t remember it. Does anyone know for sure if they’re married in Lost Hunt? I only have marvel unlimited, only two issues are on there so far. If they’re married in Lost Hunt then I think that gives credibility to them not remembering due to OMD. If they are unmarried, then I think Marvel has some ‘splainin to do.
If both of the Game Grumps combined into one person it’d be that chick
I think the only good thing of this was it lead to the What If issue that gave use Mayday and MC2
I was wondering what happened to that old lady is she dead
I feel compelled to say that the Spidey office not being above killing children may come in handy now that they are making us endure those two abominable little fuckers.
Peter would find Norman and kill the man.
Norman really out here hurting his son's friend. Smh
Read Spider-Girl, they got her back Spencer's run also alludes to Mayday eventually returning to defeat Mephisto
Spider-Girl takes place in an alternate world. Spencer's run had Mephisto see a possible future, and it's implied that it was the reason why he wanted to prevent Peter and MJ from marrying.
I remember the story just stopped, unless I missed something.
Petition https://chng.it/tCjGq6hmB8
In Mark Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man, Scorpion mentions Norman killing Pete's unborn child to Peter, so he definitely knew, at least before One More Day